2008 Presidential Race Part three

[Jedieb]

I like the RCP average because it's fairly middle of the road and on their site you get plenty of links to articles for both candidates. It's also a widely used metric. They've got a few polls that skew republican and I don't think they're as accurate as 538, but it's still a decent measure. In fact, Obama's RCP lead is wider than the popular vote projections 538 has right now.

Obama started the week at 6.2, and it looks like he's going to end the week at 6.3! I think the debate helped offset the negative attacks and I think we'll see the same thing happen next week. Which leaves both candidates to try to win news cycles for the last two weeks. Obama is buying up that 1/2 during the last full week of the campaing and I'm sure McCain will be throwing whatever money he has left at the airwaves.

October Surprise: Bin Laden Style
I still think we might see some kind of message from Bin Laden. If we don't, then I think there's a good chance he's dead. A lot of people think his message in 04 may have given Dubya a point or two, but Obama's lead is so big right now I think Bin Laden would have to come out wearing an Obama/Biden/Ayers T-shirt to have any kind of effect.

[Telan Desaria]

Osama Bin Laden......there's a name we haven't heard for a while.



Wait - here comes Barack Obama. Am I the only one who is genuinely terrified of this? IF he gets elected, I am emigrating to Russia. At least Herr Putin knows how to run a country.

[Yog]

Am I the only one who is genuinely terrified of this? IF he gets elected, I am emigrating to Russia. At least Herr Putin knows how to run a country.
What exactly are you terrified about? What is it about Obama that makes you think he is less qualified to run a country than McCain?

[Jedieb]

Osama Bin Laden......there's a name we haven't heard for a while.



Wait - here comes Barack Obama. Am I the only one who is genuinely terrified of this? IF he gets elected, I am emigrating to Russia. At least Herr Putin knows how to run a country.

Book your flight, because there's a butt kicking coming McCain's way. :evil

The first national poll to address the Ayers attacks has bad news for McCain;


Does Obama's connection with Ayers make you less likely to vote for him for president or does it not really make a difference to your vote?

Less Likely 32%

No Difference 61%
And the numbers are even worse among Independents;


Strikingly, the numbers are worse for McCain among independents: Only 29% say the Ayers association makes them less likely to vote for Obama, and more than twice as many -- 64% -- say it makes no difference.

And the best part? This was a poll from FOX News! I really think we're going to see the fireworks that some people have been begging for on Wed. night. I think McCain is finally going to make some of these Ayers attacks to Obama's face. And when he does, it'll be the final nail in his coffin with Independents. The base will pee itself with joy, the rest of the country will simply turn away.

McCain is just going to lose this election, he's going to lose a lot of the respect and appeal that he had with Independents and Moderates.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Wait - here comes Barack Obama. Am I the only one who is genuinely terrified of this? IF he gets elected, I am emigrating to Russia. At least Herr Putin knows how to run a country.


Oh really? And how the hell do you even in the slightest think that anyone could be worse than the complete and utter crap you have right now?



As for Bin Laden - what, that's expected to help McCain? Not now it aint. It'll just remind people if the abject FAIL that is Bush. Oh look, 7 years on and you still aint got him. I'm sorry but I dont see terrorism as something that will help the Republicans now.

[Yog]

SNL thursday update, Obama / McCain debate.. :lol

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[Yog]

Troopergate report can be found here, after a 12-0 vote by the Legislative Council to release it to the public:
http://download1.legis.state.ak.us/DOWNLOAD.pdf

http://www.mneh.org/pics/debatt/president-08/troopergate.png

[Rutabaga]

Troopergate report can be found here, after a 12-0 vote by the Legislative Council to release it to the public:
http://download1.legis.state.ak.us/DOWNLOAD.pdf

It's not a devastating blow, but it IS damaging, seeing as how they did find that Palin abused her powers.

No doubt people will attempt to paint this as a Democratic smear job, but hopefully people will also be very careful to point out that this was a BIPARTISAN committee who adopted the findings unanimously.

[Yog]

Penalties For Misconduct:


AS 39.52.410. Violations; Penalties For Misconduct.

(a) If the personnel board determines that a public employee has violated this chapter, it


(1) shall order the employee to stop engaging in any official action related to the violation;


(2) may order divestiture, establishment of a blind trust, restitution, or forfeiture; and


(3) may recommend that the employee's agency take disciplinary action, including dismissal.


(b) If the personnel board determines that a nonsalaried member of a board or commission has violated this chapter, it (1) shall order the member to refrain from voting, deliberating, or participating in the matter; (2) may order restitution; and (3) may recommend to the appropriate appointing authority that the member be removed from the board or commission. A violation of this chapter is grounds for removal of a board or commission member for cause. If the personnel board recommends that a board or commission member be removed from office, the appointing authority shall immediately act to remove the member from office.


(c) If the personnel board determines that a former public officer has violated this chapter, it shall


(1) issue a public statement of its findings, conclusions, and recommendation; and


(2) request the attorney general to exercise all legal and equitable remedies available to the state to seek whatever relief is appropriate.


(d) If the personnel board finds a violation of this chapter by a public officer removable from office only by impeachment, it shall file a report with the president of the Senate, with its finding. The report must contain a statement of the facts alleged to constitute the violation.

http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/Statutes/Title39/Chapter52/Section410.htm

[Jedi Master Carr]

It is a blow to the McCain camp, not sure if it would lead to impeachment, I don't know, it depends on the Alaska legislature.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

It is a blow to the McCain camp, not sure if it would lead to impeachment, I don't know, it depends on the Alaska legislature.


8 Republicans, 4 Democrats.... the report was granted release 12-0. The Republicans up there do not like her.


It's not a devastating blow, but it IS damaging, seeing as how they did find that Palin abused her powers.


It doesnt end her Governorship - but it DOES declare open season by reporters to really dig in and bring out all those other yummy things she has in her past. And it basically ends any Independants who were thinking about voting McCain. A corruption probe comes back with a yes? Electoral suicide.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think things are going to be tough for McCain over this.

[Jedieb]

Newsweek released a poll tonight that gives Obama an 11 point lead (52-41). So, after a full week of Ayers crap Obama's RCP lead increased from 6.2 to 6.6. And if you take just the average of all the polls released today it's even bigger, 7.5.

There's a couple of things I think we'll see this weekend. I think we'll see Biden hammer Palin over the abuse of power report and I think both he and Obama will dare McCain to repeat his Ayers attack during the debate. It's one thing to say this crap at a rally full of diehards. But in a dead silent debate hall full of Indys and Undecideds it's a completely different matter.

Bill Clinton is coming to Roanoke Sunday. I missed Biden and I'm hoping he makes his way back here, but if Slick Willy is what I have to settle for, it'll do.

[Jedieb]

One more before I'm off to bed. It looks like McCain may be realizing he and Palin have taken their attacks too far. Unfortunately, he's having trouble dealing with the hornets nest he's kicked open. From a McCain rally today;


John McCain was booed by his own supporters during a rally on Friday after he described Barack Obama as a "decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared of as president of the United States."

McCain was responding to a town hall attendee who claimed he was concerned about raising a child under a president who "cohorts with domestic terrorists such as [Bill] Ayers." Despite the fact that McCain and his campaign have repeatedly used Ayers to hammer Obama in recent days, the Arizona Senator tried to calm the man.

"[Senator Obama] is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared about as President of the United States," he said, before adding: "If I didn't think I would be one heck of a better president I wouldn't be running."

The crowd groaned with disapproval.

Later, McCain was again pressed about Obama's "other-ness" and again he refused to play ball. "I don't trust Obama," a woman said. "I have read about him. He's an Arab."

"No, ma'am," McCain said several times, shaking his head in disagreement. "He's a decent, family man, [a] citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about."

Too little, too late.

[Atreyu]

^ following from what Jedieb said, here's a video showing the rally:

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Kf6YKOkfFsE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

Highlight of the video: McCain shaking his head and yanking the microphone off the lady who thought Obama was an Arab.

[Yog]

^^ on a related note:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jH2iufUU1f4&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jH2iufUU1f4&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[RuthCalabria]

Are our apprehensions about the Republicans excessive? We have a great fear of what the conservatives are doing politically because it reeks of our own situation down here in Texas where my fundamentalist conservative brother-in-law has just put my wife, his sister, in jail where she now sits for criminal trespass up in his law office. Wait a minute and let me explain why. She was left $30,000 by her mother who put it in trust with him. Don told Ruth shortly after her mother died that she would never see a penny of the money unless she left me, her husband of 35 years. The conflict began back when Ruth and I first met while Ruth was married to a fundamentalist missionary effectively assigned her by her parents. Catching her Ted Haggard, Mark Foley type conservative husband being more interested in perverting rather than in converting Japanese boys, she tried desperately to escape him with her fundamentalist minister father and family strenuously objecting because of the scandal it would cause. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Now she rots in a jail because every time she went up to discuss the money at his law office, the receptionist said he was not in, at trial someplace else in Texas, unlikely for a 70 year old impotent drunk who hasn’t been to trial in years. When a surrogate of McCleskey, Harriger, Brazill and Graf told Ruth to get out and that she could not see her brother, this after she and I have been sitting down here in Third Reich Lubbock for three months trying to resolve the problem, he put this 67 year old woman in jail where she now still sits, this because he wants the control over her he had when she was young and still part of their family. He’s been eternally hateful towards me because I rescued her from this mean, child abusing, family she had the misfortune to be born into. These people are crazy. And if I know these scheming conservative game players correctly, something similar on a grander scale will be done to the American people, tricked and locked up, if McCain and the conservatives are reelected.

Dr. and Mrs. Peter Calabria

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Please do not spam up our forums with poorly guised attempts to get traffic to your website, as you have done all over the internet.

http://www.google.com/search?q=ruth+calabria&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Ridiculous.

[Park Kraken]

Heh. Well, it appears the next POTUS will be the first POTUS of recent times to not have been a naturally born citizen of the United States, at least the way things are going right now.

Not that the media cares or anything, they're too busy digging up crap on the Republican candidates. :rolleyes

[Jaime Tomahawk]

McCain's campaign being called out by the NYT for it's horrible antics

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/opinion/12rich.html?hp


The Terrorist Barack Hussein Obama

By FRANK RICH
Published: October 11, 2008

IF you think way back to the start of this marathon campaign, back when it seemed preposterous that any black man could be a serious presidential contender, then you remember the biggest fear about Barack Obama: a crazy person might take a shot at him.

Some voters told reporters that they didn’t want Obama to run, let alone win, should his very presence unleash the demons who have stalked America from Lincoln to King. After consultation with Congress, Michael Chertoff, the homeland security secretary, gave Obama a Secret Service detail earlier than any presidential candidate in our history — in May 2007, some eight months before the first Democratic primaries.

“I’ve got the best protection in the world, so stop worrying,” Obama reassured his supporters. Eventually the country got conditioned to his appearing in large arenas without incident (though I confess that the first loud burst of fireworks at the end of his convention stadium speech gave me a start). In America, nothing does succeed like success. The fear receded.

Until now. At McCain-Palin rallies, the raucous and insistent cries of “Treason!” and “Terrorist!” and “Kill him!” and “Off with his head!” as well as the uninhibited slinging of racial epithets, are actually something new in a campaign that has seen almost every conceivable twist. They are alarms. Doing nothing is not an option.

All’s fair in politics. John McCain and Sarah Palin have every right to bring up William Ayers, even if his connection to Obama is minor, even if Ayers’s Weather Underground history dates back to Obama’s childhood, even if establishment Republicans and Democrats alike have collaborated with the present-day Ayers in educational reform. But it’s not just the old Joe McCarthyesque guilt-by-association game, however spurious, that’s going on here. Don’t for an instant believe the many mindlessly “even-handed” journalists who keep saying that the McCain campaign’s use of Ayers is the moral or political equivalent of the Obama campaign’s hammering on Charles Keating.

What makes them different, and what has pumped up the Weimar-like rage at McCain-Palin rallies, is the violent escalation in rhetoric, especially (though not exclusively) by Palin. Obama “launched his political career in the living room of a domestic terrorist.” He is “palling around with terrorists” (note the plural noun). Obama is “not a man who sees America the way you and I see America.” Wielding a wildly out-of-context Obama quote, Palin slurs him as an enemy of American troops.

By the time McCain asks the crowd “Who is the real Barack Obama?” it’s no surprise that someone cries out “Terrorist!” The rhetorical conflation of Obama with terrorism is complete. It is stoked further by the repeated invocation of Obama’s middle name by surrogates introducing McCain and Palin at these rallies. This sleight of hand at once synchronizes with the poisonous Obama-is-a-Muslim e-mail blasts and shifts the brand of terrorism from Ayers’s Vietnam-era variety to the radical Islamic threats of today.

That’s a far cry from simply accusing Obama of being a guilty-by-association radical leftist. Obama is being branded as a potential killer and an accessory to past attempts at murder. “Barack Obama’s friend tried to kill my family” was how a McCain press release last week packaged the remembrance of a Weather Underground incident from 1970 — when Obama was 8.

We all know what punishment fits the crime of murder, or even potential murder, if the security of post-9/11 America is at stake. We all know how self-appointed “patriotic” martyrs always justify taking the law into their own hands.

Obama can hardly be held accountable for Ayers’s behavior 40 years ago, but at least McCain and Palin can try to take some responsibility for the behavior of their own supporters in 2008. What’s troubling here is not only the candidates’ loose inflammatory talk but also their refusal to step in promptly and strongly when someone responds to it with bloodthirsty threats in a crowded arena. Joe Biden had it exactly right when he expressed concern last week that “a leading American politician who might be vice president of the United States would not just stop midsentence and turn and condemn that.” To stay silent is to pour gas on the fires.

It wasn’t always thus with McCain. In February he loudly disassociated himself from a speaker who brayed “Barack Hussein Obama” when introducing him at a rally in Ohio. Now McCain either backpedals with tardy, pro forma expressions of respect for his opponent or lets second-tier campaign underlings release boilerplate disavowals after ugly incidents like the chilling Jim Crow-era flashback last week when a Florida sheriff ranted about “Barack Hussein Obama” at a Palin rally while in full uniform.

From the start, there have always been two separate but equal questions about race in this election. Is there still enough racism in America to prevent a black man from being elected president no matter what? And, will Republicans play the race card? The jury is out on the first question until Nov. 4. But we now have the unambiguous answer to the second: Yes.

McCain, who is no racist, turned to this desperate strategy only as Obama started to pull ahead. The tone was set at the Republican convention, with Rudy Giuliani’s mocking dismissal of Obama as an “only in America” affirmative-action baby. We also learned then that the McCain campaign had recruited as a Palin handler none other than Tucker Eskew, the South Carolina consultant who had worked for George W. Bush in the notorious 2000 G.O.P. primary battle where the McCains and their adopted Bangladeshi daughter were slimed by vicious racist rumors.

No less disconcerting was a still-unexplained passage of Palin’s convention speech: Her use of an unattributed quote praising small-town America (as opposed to, say, Chicago and its community organizers) from Westbrook Pegler, the mid-century Hearst columnist famous for his anti-Semitism, racism and violent rhetorical excess. After an assassin tried to kill F.D.R. at a Florida rally and murdered Chicago’s mayor instead in 1933, Pegler wrote that it was “regrettable that Giuseppe Zangara shot the wrong man.” In the ’60s, Pegler had a wish for Bobby Kennedy: “Some white patriot of the Southern tier will spatter his spoonful of brains in public premises before the snow falls.”

This is the writer who found his way into a speech by a potential vice president at a national political convention. It’s astonishing there’s been no demand for a public accounting from the McCain campaign. Imagine if Obama had quoted a Black Panther or Louis Farrakhan — or William Ayers — in Denver.

The operatives who would have Palin quote Pegler have been at it ever since. A key indicator came two weeks after the convention, when the McCain campaign ran its first ad tying Obama to the mortgage giant Fannie Mae. Rather than make its case by using a legitimate link between Fannie and Obama (or other Democratic leaders), the McCain forces chose a former Fannie executive who had no real tie to Obama or his campaign but did have a black face that could dominate the ad’s visuals.

There are no black faces high in the McCain hierarchy to object to these tactics. There hasn’t been a single black Republican governor, senator or House member in six years. This is a campaign where Palin can repeatedly declare that Alaska is “a microcosm of America” without anyone even wondering how that might be so for a state whose tiny black and Hispanic populations are each roughly one-third the national average. There are indeed so few people of color at McCain events that a black senior writer from The Tallahassee Democrat was mistakenly ejected by the Secret Service from a campaign rally in Panama City in August, even though he was standing with other reporters and showed his credentials. His only apparent infraction was to look glaringly out of place.

Could the old racial politics still be determinative? I’ve long been skeptical of the incessant press prognostications (and liberal panic) that this election will be decided by racist white men in the Rust Belt. Now even the dimmest bloviators have figured out that Americans are riveted by the color green, not black — as in money, not energy. Voters are looking for a leader who might help rescue them, not a reckless gambler whose lurching responses to the economic meltdown (a campaign “suspension,” a mortgage-buyout stunt that changes daily) are as unhinged as his wanderings around the debate stage.

To see how fast the tide is moving, just look at North Carolina. On July 4 this year — the day that the godfather of modern G.O.P. racial politics, Jesse Helms, died — The Charlotte Observer reported that strategists of both parties agreed Obama’s chances to win the state fell “between slim and none.” Today, as Charlotte reels from the implosion of Wachovia, the McCain-Obama race is a dead heat in North Carolina and Helms’s Republican successor in the Senate, Elizabeth Dole, is looking like a goner.

But we’re not at Election Day yet, and if voters are to have their final say, both America and Obama have to get there safely. The McCain campaign has crossed the line between tough negative campaigning and inciting vigilantism, and each day the mob howls louder. The onus is on the man who says he puts his country first to call off the dogs, pit bulls and otherwise.

[Telan Desaria]

I thought the US consitution said that you had to be a naturally born US citizen. Is that not the law?

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Heh. Well, it appears the next POTUS will be the first POTUS of recent times to not have been a naturally born citizen of the United States, at least the way things are going right now.

Not that the media cares or anything, they're too busy digging up crap on the Republican candidates. :rolleyes


Did you actually fall for the crap of the fake birth certificate? Did you not for a moment stop to actually fact check that Obama WAS born in Hawaii? Or did your brain fail to remember Hawaii is in fact one of the 50 states of the USA?

Maybe the media is digging up crap because unlike this pathetic garbage, the stuff they are digging up is actually real?

BTW, McCain was born in Panama. Now, why dont you Google why he is still counted as a US born citizen and why no one sane on the Democrat side has bought this up

Oh and here is a copy of Obama's real birth certificate

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

[Yog]

I thought the US consitution said that you had to be a naturally born US citizen. Is that not the law?
Using that definition, McCain should not be allowed to run for President. See the post above.. :lol

[Atreyu]

The 'Obama is not an American citizen' rumour was debunked months ago.

And he's not a Muslim either, although someone needs to tell Conservapedia that (http://www.conservapedia.com/Barack_Obama).

I'm interested that some speakers insist on using Obama's full name (ie. Barack HUSSEIN Obama) as a form of criticism. Aside from the fact we can't really control the names our parents give us, is the 'Hussein' name really that much of a bogeyman in the US? Internationally it's no big deal at all - several other prominent people also have the name (not all of them terrorists or dictators :p), heck even a recent English cricket captain had it for a surname (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasser_Hussain).

[Jaime Tomahawk]

And he's not a Muslim either, although someone needs to tell Conservapedia that (http://www.conservapedia.com/Barack_Obama).

Wow, I got more stupid reading that. All this totally debunked garbage piled up high. But anyone who still thinks after Pastor Wright or watching Obama preach that he's somehow a secret Muslim is a blithering idiot. Or racist which frankly is becoming more likely. Because frankly after the complete mess, the death and destruction this fine CHRISTIAN President has dealt out, I don't see how a Muslim could be worse.



I'm interested that some speakers insist on using Obama's full name (ie. Barack HUSSEIN Obama) as a form of criticism. Aside from the fact we can't really control the names our parents give us, is the 'Hussein' name really that much of a bogeyman in the US? Internationally it's no big deal at all - several other prominent people also have the name (not all of them terrorists or dictators :p), heck even a recent English cricket captain had it for a surname (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasser_Hussain).


It's Racism, lets be up front about it. Try to make Obama into the scary black guy or make him sound like one of those A-rabs. Calling Obama uppity is also racist.

And like any racist idiot, they need a good kick in the nuts.

[Park Kraken]

Did you actually fall for the crap of the fake birth certificate? Did you not for a moment stop to actually fact check that Obama WAS born in Hawaii? Or did your brain fail to remember Hawaii is in fact one of the 50 states of the USA?

Maybe the media is digging up crap because unlike this pathetic garbage, the stuff they are digging up is actually real?

BTW, McCain was born in Panama. Now, why dont you Google why he is still counted as a US born citizen and why no one sane on the Democrat side has bought this up

Heh, now who's falling for the crap of a fake birth certificate? McCain was a natural born citizen of the United States, end of story. Obama is a non-born citizen running around with a faked Hawaiian BC that the media and Obama supporters are all too happy to accept as real.

A legitimate issue about Obama's origin of birth comes up, the other side responds by coming up with a fake issue of McCain's birthplace, and suprisingly the media doesn't cover it. Hmm, maybe it's because the issue of Obamas birthplace will be brought out into the open as well. Hmm, if he was a legally born US Citizen then the media wouldn't hesitate to bring up the McCain Birthplace issue. Hmm, indeed.

[Atreyu]

Heh, now who's falling for the crap of a fake birth certificate? McCain was a natural born citizen of the United States, end of story. Errrr, Mark knows that. He was asking a rhetorical question.

EDIT: Whoops, sorry. Mark wasn't been rhetorical, just stating plain straight. Mark knows McCain is counted as a citizen - he said it himself ("Now, why dont you Google why he is still counted as a US born citizen")

His point was that the reason why the Democrats don't question it is because McCain's natural citizenship is legit even though he was born in Panama. Just as Obama's being born in Hawaii is as well.


Obama is a non-born citizen running around with a faked Hawaiian Just curious, would you mind linking to some stories or something where you found that out?

EDIT: Just to re-check my own end, I looked around a bit and found the following sites that debunk the secret Muslim/fake citizen thing;

Birth Certificate Fake? http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp & http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
(http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html)Not a real US citizen? http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
Citizen of Kenya? http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

[Jaime Tomahawk]

[
Heh, now who's falling for the crap of a fake birth certificate? McCain was a natural born citizen of the United States, end of story. Obama is a non-born citizen running around with a faked Hawaiian BC that the media and Obama supporters are all too happy to accept as real.

A legitimate issue about Obama's origin of birth comes up, the other side responds by coming up with a fake issue of McCain's birthplace, and suprisingly the media doesn't cover it. Hmm, maybe it's because the issue of Obamas birthplace will be brought out into the open as well. Hmm, if he was a legally born US Citizen then the media wouldn't hesitate to bring up the McCain Birthplace issue. Hmm, indeed.

Don't you think for a second that the mightily Republican machine or Hillary would not have gone through this issue with a fine tooth comb?

Well, do you actually think they haven't?

They are far better at this fact verification than you are, because they are rather interested in such things, are they not?. You in fact completely wrong in this area because guess who is NOT doubting Obama's right? Yeah, that would be the McCain campaign and as well the Hillary campaign.

And I have to also point out I posted the real and verified location of McCain's birthplace. Which you have not replied with how it's been allowed. Notice I am not disputing his right at all (despite your completely wrong thought that I am doubting his right).

So lets be totally clear here - McCain was born in the Panama Security zone, which is under USA control and thence he was born on USA soil. Obama was born on Hawaii soil and thence is a USA citizen. This is a fact that is not under dispute and can not be disputed.

[Rossos Atrapes]

Holy Crap. Conservapedia is about as trustworthy as three week old orange juice. Some of the things on that website I can understand (many people seem to have a hard time realizing that understanding does not inherently include agreement); but the blatant bias with which they present themselves, and have the nerve to call it a trustworthy objective truth is just astounding. This isn't the blatant bias presented by The Daily Show, or The Colbert Report, which doesn't hide under a veneer of self-righteous subjective truth. This is honest-to-God blindness.

Show me a comparable liberal analogue, and I'll say the exact same thing.

In my perfect world, I could have a candidate that was economically socialist with more conservative cultural leanings. Alas, we must decide between Barack Obama and John McCain as the heavily favoured candidates. Between the two, I would choose Mr. Obama, simply due to the fact that one cannot legislate morality, and in that vein I would vote the more sober economic candidate, in this case (and in my opinion) being Obama.

Voting 'values' does no more than any of the colonial wars of the 19th century and beyond: a submission, by force, of others wills that do not agree with yours (and further exploiting those wills for the gain of the victors), which is a failed policy, both in domestic circles as well as in foreign. The partisanship and racism that is being aired by this election is due to fact that people don't want to be swayed by arguments, people just want to be right, and will consciously ignore things that negate what they believe. This is both on the Liberal as well as the Conservative.

Okay, rant's over. Sorry about that.

[Yog]

the other side responds by coming up with a fake issue of McCain's birthplace
It's real enough that the GOP own lawyers had to investigate (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3460276.ece) whether he was eligible.

It's not as clear cut as you would think either. The constitution uses a vague language. Now, I agree The Surpreme Court would very likely interpret the wording "natural born as "american born citizen", or count it as American soil, but it's not 100% certain. Funny thing is, who would become President if McCain had to step down... yeah.



and suprisingly the media doesn't cover it.
You mean, apart from the 751 articles a random google news (http://news.google.com/news?ned=us&hl=en&ned=us&q=McCain+Panama&btnG=Search+News) search brought up?

The reason the media does not bring this up more, is something called common sense and journalistic integrity. This election is and should be about the issues.



Hmm, maybe it's because the issue of Obamas birthplace will be brought out into the open as well.
It has already been brought up ad nauseum he was born on Hawaii. There are also plenty of right wing conspiracy blogs out there covering the fake birth certificate nonsense, and it has been debunked by the media many times.

[Rutabaga]

The fact that the name "Hussein" has now been turned into a racial epithet is absolutely shameful. The country of Jordan is an ally of America, and for many years it was ruled by King Hussein, who seemed like a decent person. I wonder how his son King Abdullah feels about his father's name now being denigrated and spat upon here in America?

It's equally shameful that being a Muslim is now considered to be suspect and evil. The intolerance for the Muslim faith is shocking. It's like the way citizens of Japanese descent were viewed during WWII...how soon is it before someone will suggest "detainment camps" for Muslims, hm?

:grumble

[Atreyu]

Wow, I got more stupid reading that
Holy Crap. Conservapedia is about as trustworthy as three week old orange juice. Sorry :). I thought since we were discussing citizenship I'd chuck in the Muslim link too. Sadly, Conservapedia promotes itself as "an educational resource, including lectures and study guides, and we welcome students and adults seeking to learn", so it's not a joke or anything. :\


It's equally shameful that being a Muslim is now considered to be suspect and evil. A Muslim poster on TFN posted very similar feelings on the subject just last week, concerned how ordinary Muslim Americans are being trashed by association due to their religion. :(

[Jedi Master Carr]

Man Park stop being a moron. Only an idiot or an insane person would believe that crap about Obama. Obama was born in Hawaii and that is a fact it has been proven by a 100 sources. To me arguing that Obama is foreign born is like arguing the holocaust didn't happen.

[Park Kraken]

Man Park stop being a moron. Only an idiot or an insane person would believe that crap about Obama. Obama was born in Hawaii and that is a fact it has been proven by a 100 sources. To me arguing that Obama is foreign born is like arguing the holocaust didn't happen.

Whoa whoa whoa wayyyy off base and uncalled for there JMC. The only reason I brought it up is because A) It could be a very serious issue, and B) It isn't mentioned by any of the major media sources, probably in large part because they have been showing a very large bias against McCain and the Republican party.

But I will respond to this charge by posting a quote from another board, a very wise poster it seems;


I think it is a blurred gray area that should be explored, at best, and if you push it you will be deemed a racist.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It is not uncalled for because it is just as ludicrous. Neither CNN nor Fox news has even brought it up. If it was an issue Fox would have brought it up. You are just as bad as Holocaust denier and those bozos who think the govt. caused 9/11.

[Rutabaga]

Although I have to agree that the Holocaust denier comparison is over the top, the main fact remains: this is NOT a gray area. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a state. Therefore he is a natural-born citizen of the United States, and constitutionally eligible to run for the presidency.

This is not a racial issue. It's a truth issue.

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

[Jedi Master Carr]

Although I have to agree that the Holocaust denier comparison is over the top, the main fact remains: this is NOT a gray area. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Hawaii is a state. Therefore he is a natural-born citizen of the United States, and constitutionally eligible to run for the presidency.

This is not a racial issue. It's a truth issue.

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

I don't think it is over the top because all three are just plain lies and to me all lies are equal. I don't think you can say lying about the Holocaust is any worse than lying about somebody's record.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Whoa whoa whoa wayyyy off base and uncalled for there JMC. The only reason I brought it up is because A) It could be a very serious issue, and B) It isn't mentioned by any of the major media sources, probably in large part because they have been showing a very large bias against McCain and the Republican party.

But I will respond to this charge by posting a quote from another board, a very wise poster it seems;


I think it is a blurred gray area that should be explored, at best, and if you push it you will be deemed a racist.

No, he was not over the top or uncalled for actually. Maybe it got it into your head just how dumb you are being? Despite the fact WE have posted evidence, despite the fact no one in the McCain or Hillary camp tried this on, because much better people than you have dismissed this, you are continuing in insisting this is an issue when clearly it is not.

So basically, YOU are the one bringing up racism with your quote from a so called wise person instead of responding with real evidence for your ridiculous assertion. And no we are not calling you racist. We are however asking you pull your head in and stop posting compete garbage instead because this is not, has not and never will be an issue anyone other than wingnuts takes seriously.

[Cat X]

Oooooh, now I see where this retarded crap is coming from.

The birth certificate thing is being pushed by a certain James Corsi. Now if you dont remember this name, let me rewind to 2004 and dorp one word

Swiftboat.

Yes ladies and gentlemen, where the not very esteemed or thinking right wing is getting this is from the backside of James Corsi who wrote the Swiftboat smears.

So now it's time to be prepared, obviously Corsi will try again.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I remember him, but didn't know he anything up his sleeve so far. I don't see that story working when there is evidence to support it.

[Cat X]

I remember him, but didn't know he anything up his sleeve so far. I don't see that story working when there is no evidence to support it.

He wrote another book (which I will not link to considerign just how much outright lies it has) repeatign every stupid smear or BS anyone has ever invented. What the wingnuts blat on about Ayers came from that book.

It was totally trashed and proven to be false. But yet, it's all the wingnuts have to hold on to - they dont have issues, they just have compelte garbage. And they are using it to create talking points and an agenda. Of course it wont work this time.

[Weeta]

(IS LD)

This thread exists for discussion. If arguments and name calling persist, it will be closed in an instant.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I remember him, but didn't know he anything up his sleeve so far. I don't see that story working when there is no evidence to support it.

He wrote another book (which I will not link to considerign just how much outright lies it has) repeatign every stupid smear or BS anyone has ever invented. What the wingnuts blat on about Ayers came from that book.

It was totally trashed and proven to be false. But yet, it's all the wingnuts have to hold on to - they dont have issues, they just have compelte garbage. And they are using it to create talking points and an agenda. Of course it wont work this time.

I hope the dirty politics don't work. I am hopeful mudslinging doesn't win the day.

[Park Kraken]

EDIT: Well, having missed LD's post and seeing as how any opinion I post on the board here is just going to incite an unwanted flame war, I am withdrawing from this thread of "Agree with my poilitical point of view or I'll flame you" and wish for this post, post #296, and post #298 to be deleted. Thank you.

Well, this is a site I love and frequent often with my love of naval history, and where I've picked up a lot of the stuff I've used to make my arguements thus far, so in regards to Statement B, I'll offer up the following links;

http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/7366
http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/7363
http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/7367

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL the only thing I am going to comment on that stuff is the bit about Fox News if you think Fox News is controlled by the democrats I have a bridge you might be interested in. I think it is best I don't try to argue with the rest or else I might say something that gets this thread closed.

[Park Kraken]

Oh, one more thing. I'm retracting my arguements concering the whole Birth Certificates deal. Now it's just wait and see.

On another interesting issue though, I'm finding myself conflicted as to whether or not I should vote for my ideals, or for a better economy in which my current profession as a security officer would see more job opportunities.

[Ryan Pode]

Kraken, have you ever watched FoxNews?

[Park Kraken]

Kraken, have you ever watched FoxNews?

I used to watch it all the time. I even used points from there for arguements on these forums and others, until a lot of people on here and other said forums said that FoxNews was full of crap, then I stopped watching it. lol.

[Liam Jinn]

It is not uncalled for because it is just as ludicrous. Neither CNN nor Fox news has even brought it up. If it was an issue Fox would have brought it up. You are just as bad as Holocaust denier and those bozos who think the govt. caused 9/11.

A) CNN and Fox news are both squarely in the democrats corner. Do you even know how much Democratic dirt they've conviently failed to bring to light? A lot. Although they aren't as bad as MSM it.

B) LOL, no I'm not. A true patriot wouldn't even be voting for Obama, he'll destroy this country and all that it stands for if he wins.

C) If you have any doubts as to how the media is biased, take for example how your blatant disregard for a world tragedy and a national tragedy in comparing them to a political arguement is being overlooked by the moderators and administrators of a website that has shown itself to be largely democractic supporters. Draw your own conclusions in regards to this comparison and what's going on in the media.

Good day.

I'd like you to explain that little bit. I'm assuming you've been drinking, so I'm not going to bother with the rest of that post.

[Ryan Pode]

FoxNews is blatanly conservative. BLATANLY.

[Cat X]

B) LOL, no I'm not. A true patriot wouldn't even be voting for Obama, he'll destroy this country and all that it stands for if he wins.

Are you are now just flat out blatantly trolling? Honestly, WTF?

[Morgan Evanar]

It is not uncalled for because it is just as ludicrous. Neither CNN nor Fox news has even brought it up. If it was an issue Fox would have brought it up. You are just as bad as Holocaust denier and those bozos who think the govt. caused 9/11.

A) CNN and Fox news are both squarely in the democrats corner. Do you even know how much Democratic dirt they've conviently failed to bring to light? A lot. Although they aren't as bad as MSM it.

B) LOL, no I'm not. A true patriot wouldn't even be voting for Obama, he'll destroy this country and all that it stands for if he wins.

C) If you have any doubts as to how the media is biased, take for example how your blatant disregard for a world tragedy and a national tragedy in comparing them to a political arguement is being overlooked by the moderators and administrators of a website that has shown itself to be largely democractic supporters. Draw your own conclusions in regards to this comparison and what's going on in the media.

Good day.

I'd like you to explain that little bit. I'm assuming you've been drinking, so I'm not going to bother with the rest of that post.Justify statement B.

[Charley]

Justify statement B.

A. Obama is a Socialist

B. Obama is an Islamic Manchurian Candidate

C. White Power! White Power!

D. Some mix of all 3

This is usually how it breaks down. Considering how "patriot" has been hijacked and co-opted by the neoconservative movement for the past few years, you can write this off. This is America, where dissent is an inherently patriotic virtue and should be defended as such.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Justify statement B.

A. Obama is a Socialist

B. Obama is an Islamic Manchurian Candidate

C. White Power! White Power!

D. Some mix of all 3

This is usually how it breaks down. Considering how "patriot" has been hijacked and co-opted by the neoconservative movement for the past few years, you can write this off. This is America, where dissent is an inherently patriotic virtue and should be defended as such.

I agree with you there. To me Patriot is questioning the government. I agree with Thomas Jefferson and other founding fathers on that point.

[Cat X]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/article4925049.ece

Good little article on why the 100% negative campaign wont work.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Great article, I also don't think the negative ads will hurt considering the bad economy.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Great article, I also don't think the negative ads will hurt considering the bad economy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT06ucZ3bc4

Joe Biden would make an awesome President. Or an awesome VP. But he makes some great points.

[Rutabaga]

Considering how "patriot" has been hijacked and co-opted by the neoconservative movement for the past few years, you can write this off. This is America, where dissent is an inherently patriotic virtue and should be defended as such.

Thank you. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU. :clap

[Charley]

Great article, I also don't think the negative ads will hurt considering the bad economy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT06ucZ3bc4

Joe Biden would make an awesome President. Or an awesome VP. But he makes some great points.

I don't really care for Biden and I wish he wasn't Obama's pick for numerous reasons, but I'll still vote for the Obama ticket in spite of him.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Considering how "patriot" has been hijacked and co-opted by the neoconservative movement for the past few years, you can write this off. This is America, where dissent is an inherently patriotic virtue and should be defended as such.

Thank you. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU. :clap

It's fantastic to see people pushing back against neocon rubbish.

In fact one of the things I have really noticed is the willingness of Dems / Independants to push back against GOP garbage too. It's like a whole bunch of people have gotten angry at what's happened and are deciding to fight.

[Jedieb]

B) LOL, no I'm not. A true patriot wouldn't even be voting for Obama, he'll destroy this country and all that it stands for if he wins.


Holy crap on a stick, where do I even begin? I'm a patriot. I'm a veteran who proudly served in the Army Reserve for six years. I served in Desert Storm without hesitation. I proudly support Barack Obama for the Presidency of the United States. If you honestly think that somehow impugns my patriotism then I don't feel anger towards towards you, just pity.

John McCain is a good man, but I believe he was an even better man in 2000. He had to sell out to get this nomination. He's done things in order to shore up his base that I think will eventually contribute to his losing this race by a large margin. Because of the ecnonomy and the repeated failures of the Bush administration, even the McCain of 2000 would have had a hard time winning this election. But McCain 2008 is simply unrecognizable to the Independents and Moderates who backed him in 2000.

We have two GOOD men running for President. Anyone who thinks that either one of them is evil or deploreable is missing what should be the point of this election. Simply, the economic and foreign policies of the last 8 years have been a train wreck. While both parties have contributed to them, one has held the White House for the last 8 years and has controlled Congress for 12 of the last 14 years. Which of these two men do you think will do a better job of changing the direction of our economic and foreign policy? I do believe that McCain would be a much better President that Bush, but I simply believe that Obama would be better than BOTH of them.

[Jedieb]

Back to politics, over the weekend, RCP has adjusted their polling methodology for the stretch run. They're ditching "partisan" affiliated polls. When they started on the 11th Obama's lead actually went up to 7.6 from 6.6 the day before. It stands at 7.0. Obama weathered the first week of the Ayers assualt quite nicely. I think the debate helped him quite a bit but the stock market plunge is what really killed the Ayers stuff. If made the attacks look a bit irrelevant. Not only that, but in a Washington Post poll it significantly increased the number of voters who thought McCain was running the more negative campaign of the two.

I think this week's debate and the economy will continue to work in Obama's favor this week. McCain is in the position of having to try something desperate this Wed. night. If he goes negative it will thrill his base, but time and time again during these past 3 debates Indys and Uncommiteds have shown a distate for candidates when they go negative, that includes Obama and Biden. I don't see that changing.

[Yog]

Weekly poll round up, national and state polls from last week.

National Polls Avg for the week: Obama +6.9

Safe Obama
California: +16
Delaware: +8
Iowa +13
Michigan +10.5
Minnesota +13
NH: +10.5
NJ: +13
OR: +11
PA: +13.5

Leans Obama
Colorado +6
Florida: +5
NM: +5
VA: +8
WV: +8 (ARG outlier)
WI: +8.75

Tossup
Indiana: -4
Missouri: Tie
Nevada: +3.6
NC: +.25
OH: +3.22

Leans Mccain
Georgia -6.5
Montana -5

Safe Mccain
Alaska -15
Texas -19
Alabama -23.5

[Yog]

Yog's Electoral Projection - 13th october:

http://www.mneh.org/pics/debatt/president-08/map-13-oct.png

[Jedi Master Carr]

Its surprising how Florida is turning. I think the older Jewish voters in that state is part of it. I know they don't like Palin and plus people like Ed Koch and Sarah Silverman have been targeting them to get them to vote for Obama.

Edit nice map, Yog. I also think Missouri, WV and Indiana all could swing Obama's way right now.

[Yog]

I also think Missouri, WV and Indiana all could swing Obama's way right now.

You could well be right. As a matter of fact, here is a fresh Missouri poll. Probably an outlier, but there will be another Missouri poll later today for comparison.

Survey USA - Missouri
Obama: 51%
McCain: 43%

KMOX Survey Shows Big Swing In Voter Support For Obama (http://www.kmox.com/KMOX-Survey-Shows-Big-Swing-In-Voter-Support-For-O/3127150)


St. Louis (KMOX News) -- Missouri voters are throwing their support behind Democrat Barack Obama, according to a new SurveyUSA poll conducted for KMOX Radio and KCTV in Kansas City.

The latest numbers show Obama leading Republican John McCain 51% to 43% percent in Missouri, with 3% still undecided.

SurveyUSA says three weeks ago, McCain held a 2-percentage point lead in the Show-Me State.

McCain is also losing ground to Obama in a number of voting segments, including men, women and both higher- and lower-income residents.

In St. Louis, Obama's pushed his lead from 5% three weeks ago to 22% in the latest survey, which has a 4.3% margin of error.

The daily gallup is really good btw:
Obama Ahead, 51% to 41% (http://www.gallup.com/poll/111112/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Ahead-51-41.aspx)

I made sure to notify the Drudge Report (http://www.drudgereport.com/) by email about it (the cover story is McCain "ready for comeback", and yesterdays daily gallup).

Poor Matt Drudge. Hard to find any bright news to report on... :lol

[Jedieb]

I don't think there's any way that WV can swing Obama's way. That ARG poll is just amazing. An 8 point Obama lead in a state he's never once polled ahead of McCain. Before that poll it was a solid red state that McCain led by an average of around 6 points. I still expect it to go for McCain on Nov. 4th, but the fact that we're even discussing this is proof of how bad things are for McCain. He's now got to shift some resources to WV to make sure he nails it down. Ad buys, surrogates, campaign stops, whatever he does it's one less resource he has for Ohio, Penn, Colorado, and other battleground states. Wow, WV, who'd a thunk it?

[Jaime Tomahawk]

If you really want to get the best idea of how toxic the Republican brand is and how badly polling truly is, you only have to look at this....

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/13/1626/2826/599/628926

The internal party polling must be horrific. And I add, internal party polling tends to be over a bigger spread than normal polls thence more accurate. They are probably seeing results closer to the outliers.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think he can win WV another poll there had him 3 points up a few days ago.

[Yog]

Rasmussen Weekly (previous number in parenthesis)
VA: Obama 50 (50) McCain 47 (48) - Obama +3, 1 point gain
FL: Obama 51 (52) McCain 46 (45) - Obama +5, 2 point loss
NC: Obama 48 McCain 48 - new
OH: Obama 49 (47) McCain 47 (48) - Obama +2, 3 point gain
MO: Obama 50 (50) McCain 47 (47) - Obama +3, same

This confirms Obama is leading in Missouri.

[Rutabaga]

Really interesting reading:

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/us/politics/13martin.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin">The Man Behind The Whispers About Obama</a>

[Cat X]

I think we will see a campaign shift. McCain I think is getting uncomfortable with the mobs being whipped up and while he doesnt want to lose, he wants to lose gracefully.

And frankly that's the best thing he can do. It's also the best thing his party can do because a graceful loss will help the rebuild they will need to do. GWB hasnt just wrecked the economy, he wrecked the Republicans. McCain going out with grace and honor would do much to eventually redeem the GOP

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4926283.ece?Submitted=true

However, Palin would do a lot to make sure the party explodes and stay irrevalent for years.

Yeah? Seriously Sarah? A run in 2012? Go on, make us laugh.

[Figrin D'an]

Given that McCain does indeed appear to be getting uncomfortable with the anger and mob mentality that his campaign has been stoking for the past few weeks, it makes me wonder if he is really starting to regret choosing Palin as his running mate.

This is purely my own perception of the situation, but it almost seems that McCain is also beginning to regret the "sell-out" he had to do in order to remain a factor in his party long enough to get a legit chance at the Oval Office. McCain strikes me, now more than ever, as a good man who was forced to make a series of poor decisions because he was made to believe that he had no other choice if he was going to reach his goal. I partly blame this on Karl Rove, because he made it a point to destroy McCain in the 2000 campaign and crush everything that he stood for. But McCain also shares the guilt, because he gave in and became a "good little Republican" and supported Bush and a lot of his horrendous policies in order to keep his hope alive for another run at the White House.

In many ways, I'm kind of hoping that losing this race gracefully will allow McCain to sort of shed himself of the Bush Republicanism that he's had to carry around and return to being the Senator that he was known for in the 90's. If the Republican Party is going to reform itself, it needs a couple of inciting events. One, IMO, is getting pantsed in this Presidential election. The other is the emergence of voices of leadership willing to part ways from the past. McCain is still capable of being an advocate for change within his party, but I think he'd better be able to effect that change from outside of the Oval Office.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Hopefully that is true about McCain. I think he made too many changes from the man he used to be. He should go positive even if means losing.

[Jedieb]

Given that McCain does indeed appear to be getting uncomfortable with the anger and mob mentality that his campaign has been stoking for the past few weeks, it makes me wonder if he is really starting to regret choosing Palin as his running mate.

This is purely my own perception of the situation, but it almost seems that McCain is also beginning to regret the "sell-out" he had to do in order to remain a factor in his party long enough to get a legit chance at the Oval Office. McCain strikes me, now more than ever, as a good man who was forced to make a series of poor decisions because he was made to believe that he had no other choice if he was going to reach his goal. I partly blame this on Karl Rove, because he made it a point to destroy McCain in the 2000 campaign and crush everything that he stood for. But McCain also shares the guilt, because he gave in and became a "good little Republican" and supported Bush and a lot of his horrendous policies in order to keep his hope alive for another run at the White House.

In many ways, I'm kind of hoping that losing this race gracefully will allow McCain to sort of shed himself of the Bush Republicanism that he's had to carry around and return to being the Senator that he was known for in the 90's. If the Republican Party is going to reform itself, it needs a couple of inciting events. One, IMO, is getting pantsed in this Presidential election. The other is the emergence of voices of leadership willing to part ways from the past. McCain is still capable of being an advocate for change within his party, but I think he'd better be able to effect that change from outside of the Oval Office.

I share many of your sentiments Fig, and there's something I want to add. McCain had to "sell out" because he simply was never that popular with the Republican establishment. We're talking about a GOP that gleefully chose Bush over McCain in 2000. And look at the base that has this party by the testicles, there's one part of the ticket that they adore and another that they tolerate. These nimrods ADORE Palin, not McCain. She's the one that's packing them in at rallies. When they campaign together you often see people head for the exits as soon as she's done speaking. It's embarrassing. By choosing Palin McCain not only doomed himself with Independents and Moderates, but he saddled the GOP with Palin as the clear front runner for 2012. But here's the thing, all McCain did was give the base EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANTED! Palin is Bush with lipstick and an expensive pair of glasses. An empty vessel for the neo-cons and religous right to prop up and push their foreign and social polcy agendas. Even after 8 years of Bush, the Republican base doesn't want change, they want the same thing. IMO, the GOP is devouring itself right now. I see it splitting apart. Fiscal conservatives are horrified at how Bush has spent money. Conservative isolationists want to fight terrorism but they see Iraq as nation building they abhor. The third wing are the religious ditto heads who still say that Bush is doing a great job. Bush's approval rating is now lower than Nixon. The 26% that still give him props are the blind Palin worshipers that are running roughshod over the GOP right now. And they're running it into the ground.

[Cat X]

Hopefully that is true about McCain. I think he made too many changes from the man he used to be. He should go positive even if means losing.

There is a lot to like about McCain. For one, if he returns to the pre 2000 days, he IS a positive influnece and pushes back against the Rove-style crap.

In reply to F'DN - I am sure Palin was not his choice, she was forced onto him by the wingnuts. He would have really wanted say Lieberman. The fact she was completely unvetted shows something went wrong or it wasnt his call.


One, IMO, is getting pantsed in this Presidential election. The other is the emergence of voices of leadership willing to part ways from the past. McCain is still capable of being an advocate for change within his party, but I think he'd better be able to effect that change from outside of the Oval Office.

For two to happen, one will have to happen first. Having the GOP flushed of wingnuts will provide the space for new blood that is desperatly needed. I also wouldnt be surprised to see "Republican" changed because it's been so poisoned.

The bigger the thumping, the more the Republicans will run hard away from what the Bush Admin gave us.

And I suspect that McCain going positive wont turn around his polling, indeed it will make it worse and the chaces of a landslide will be greater. BUT on the other hand, it will be better for the country and his own party. The bigger and louder the "NO" the electorate gives, the better the chances the Republicans get it and then make changes that are positive.

So yes it seems weird, but a 10 point smashing would really be in the Republicans best interest.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Could see a creation of a new party out of the mess. The Whig party fell apart and the Republicans rose to take their place.

[Jedieb]

If McCain loses this election and loses it big, he's done in the GOP. They'll blame him for the Democratic takeover. Even though he was probably their best chance to win because of his reputation as a "maverick." The party will unfortunately turn to Palin and her supporters. And if she becomes the face of the GOP for the next couple of years then the GOP is screwed.

McCain will actually have a chance to get things done in the Senate though because he's shown throughout his career that he knows how to get things done through bipartisanship. But he's going to have to shed himself of the Bush veterans that he's hired to help run his campaign. McCain knows this is his last chance for the Presidency. If he loses he can rededicate himself to his Senate career and go back to being the 2000 McCain. And with a Democratic House and a possible fillibuster proof Dem majority in the Senate he can actually get some things done. Especially if the Dems end up with less than 60 seats. McCain then becomes someone who can rally a few votes to pass legislation. He can go back to pissing off Republicans because honestly, what will they be able to do him? They won't have the Presidency to hold over him anymore. With what time he has left McCain can become what Ted Kennedy has. A Senator who got more done in the Senate then he probably would have as President.

Yesterday McCain basically tried to reboot his campaign. His stump speech was a fresh start. He gave a "the fight's not over" speech without any mention of Ayers or the ecnonomy. Today I expect we'll see what he plans to focus on for this week and possibly the rest of the campaign. Obama took advantage of this by giving a speech on the ecnonomy that had several proposals addressing everything from jobs to protecting families from being evicted from their homes. So he's a day ahead of McCain.

[Yog]

Of all the dubious lobbyist connections I heard about in this election, this may the most hilarious:

McCain's Presidential Transition Chief aided Saddam Hussein in lobbying effort (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/mccain-transition-chief-a_n_134595.html)


William Timmons, the Washington lobbyist who John McCain has named to head his presidential transition team, aided an influence effort on behalf of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to ease international sanctions against his regime.

The two lobbyists who Timmons worked closely with over a five year period on the lobbying campaign later either pleaded guilty to or were convicted of federal criminal charges that they had acted as unregistered agents of Saddam Hussein's government.

During the same period beginning in 1992, Timmons worked closely with the two lobbyists, Samir Vincent and Tongsun Park, on a previously unreported prospective deal with the Iraqis in which they hoped to be awarded a contract to purchase and resell Iraqi oil. Timmons, Vincent, and Park stood to share at least $45 million if the business deal went through.

Of course, it has little to do with McCain, but it's another example how stupid the guilt by association argument is. Should be funny to see McCain camp spin that one.

[Jedieb]

Obama's leads just keep GROWING. His RCP average looks like it's going to end at 7.5 today. Which ties the biggest lead he's ever had with that poll of polls average. He's gained almost a full point from last week. The Ayers stuff is simply not sticking and it's getting drowned out. ACORN is another avenue of attack for Republicans, but that's got some problems to. McCain himself has supported McCain in the past and as recently as 06 he's spoken on their behalf.

North Dakota
Some places have ND as a toss up. Some even have it leaning Obama's way. 538 is more realistic and only gives Obama a 27% chance of carrying the state. But it's simply ridiculous that this state is even being talked about. Bush won ND in 00 by 28 points and in 04 he won it by 27. How can it possibly be close at this point?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

In regards to Obama's birth certificate and other crazy things that get bandied about by people (on both sides of the 'line'), I just think it should be remembered how 'old' people react when they get email for the first time.

They read forwards.

They BELIEVE forwards. If it is in type and someone took the time to send it on to me, it must be true.

They forward on the forwards to all their friends.

It isn't necessarily that these people are all idiots, its just that they don't understand that what you read on the internet is not necessarily true. When I get email fwds from my parents about Obama not wearing a flag pin or whatever, I point them to scopes.com and places like that.

There are real reasons not to want to vote for Obama (or McCain) but crazy internet rumors are not one of them. Its unfortunate that the older people in the country can be 'taken advantage' of like this. Yes, they should know better, but YOU KNOW and I KNOW that the curse of the internet fwd email is real and happens to our parents and grandparents. They're not stupid, just naive. Okay, perhaps a little stupid. ;)

But its not just a conservative problem - liberals have their liberal blogs too that spout all sorts of nonsense, and people believe them. Heck sometimes it ends up on the news.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Hey I hate the liberal ones too. I can't stand the putz who started the govt. caused 9/11 stuff.

[Yog]

Hey, I agree 100% with everything De'Ville said. That must be a first. :)


Tomorrow, as you all know, is the final debate between Obama and McCain. Question is what kind of strategy we're going to see from McCain. Will he try to go on the offensive to try and shift the momentum around somehow? I'll say, most probably. This debate could be the most agressive one, and going on a more personal level. It has already been hinted Ayers may be a subject.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Hey, I agree 100% with everything De'Ville said. That must be a first. :)

I'm going to frame this and put it on the wall :lol

[Cat X]

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/10/palin_chryson/

Looks like the Palin connections to AIP has suddenly become a story the MSM are hooking onto

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/alaskan-independence-part_b_133261.html

Also up on CNN too.

GG, I just agreed with LD as well 100%.

[Yog]

Also up on CNN too.
Here is some video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAm-Nvk3FAw) of CNN's coverage. The timing could not be worse for McCain. Just after his comeback speech, and prior to the debate.


..also, I just got to post this. 14 point lead in the CBS poll. Wow.

Poll: Obama Opens 14-Point Lead On McCain (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/14/opinion/polls/main4522273.shtml?tag=topStory;topStoryHeadline)

(CBS) Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is entering the third and final presidential debate Wednesday with a wide lead over Republican rival John McCain nationally, a new CBS News/New York Times poll shows.

The Obama-Biden ticket now leads the McCain-Palin ticket 53 percent to 39 percent among likely voters, a 14-point margin. One week ago, prior to the Town Hall debate that uncommitted voters saw as a win for Obama, that margin was just three points.

[Jedieb]

Some of these rumors shouldn't even be tied to the left or the right, they're just insane. Fake Obama birth certificate rumors are insults to conservatives. And if anyone ever tried to lump me in with 9/11 conspiracy theorists because I lean left I'd punch them in the nads.

The CBS/NYT poll set to be printed tomorrow gives Obama a jaw dropping 14 point lead. Now, the Times poll has usually been leaning Dem around 3 points, but that still puts him in solid double digits. HIs RCP average has jumped up over 8 now.

[Yog]

http://palinaspresident.com/

Click on stuff.. :lol

[Rutabaga]

I heartily agree with LD as well :). There are just way too many people who ascribe to the idea of, I read it on the internets, so it must be true! Too many people are just too lazy to seek out the truth behind any crazy rumor that gets delivered to their email inbox. Or they only listen to one news outlet and don't seek out other points of view. There are also people on both sides who are so blinded that they are thoroughly and completely incapable of being willing to listen to different viewpoints. It's all human nature, I suppose, but it really is one of the less attractive aspects of human nature.

Now, everyone just keep an eye on the ACORN story...I have no doubt that this will become the straw man argument for some people if the polls are correct and Obama wins. :mischief

[Jedi Master Carr]

It looks like we all agree with LD :)

About Acorn, I don't think it is really anything except showing greed on their parts. They got money for every person they get registered. They were register fake people who were never going to vote.

[Jedieb]

The ACORN attack will be even less effective that the Ayers attack for McCain. Especially when you start seeing clips of him praising ACORN as their 2006 Keynote Speaker. And it'll also eventually lead to Dems bringing up charges of voter disenfranschisement.

[CMJ]

I recommend watching Frontline from last night. They did an excellent job of giving a summary of how McCain and Obama reached this point in time.

The only "mistake" I saw wasn't really a mistake. They just gave the impression McCain dropped out in 2000 after South Carolina, where he actually was viable for about 3 more weeks(though no doubt that was what allowed Bush to regain his edge).

[Jedieb]

Rumors are swirling that Colin Powell will be endorsing Obama tomorrow night. That's another conservative nail in the McCain coffin. Plus, it's going to give the Obama surrogates another talking point to help spin the debate results.

[Jedieb]

Wow, the Rolling Stone article on McCain is just BRUTAL. Not for the faint of heart.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain

[Yog]

Wow, the Rolling Stone article on McCain is just BRUTAL. Not for the faint of heart.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain
Yeah, I read that before. It may be biased, but if only 10% of the article is true, it certainly takes away some of the sparkle on McCain's military service. Also, there are troubling aspects about his political record as well.

[Rossos Atrapes]

Wow, the Rolling Stone article on McCain is just BRUTAL. Not for the faint of heart.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain
Yeah, I read that before. It may be biased, but if only 10% of the article is true, it certainly takes away some of the sparkle on McCain's military service. Also, there are troubling aspects about his political record as well.

In truth, I had to stop reading this, simply for the fact that even though I will not vote for McCain doesn't mean I need to read something so denigratingly vile; doesn't mean that I don't respect the man and his accomplishments, even if he's acted like an all too human being. I have no place saying that McCain is somehow worthy of my ire or is somehow less of a person because of his confessions in prison, or the way he acted as a young man; the only ones who have that ability in my opinion are those who suffered in the POW camps with him, and that's all. As if someone can judge someone else's conduct whilst a prisoner of war. It almost makes me sick. If his comrades in the camps want to spout their disgust with the man and his actions, then they are welcome to do so themselves, perhaps writing op-ed pieces to newspapers, or doing a talking head moment on a new channel. However, in my opinion, if they were so honourable as to not be cowed by torture and turn down leaving the POW camps, then they would be leery of abusing or dishonouring themselves to be used for such a blatantly political or selfish purpose. But then, those who didn't confess are also human and flawed as well, no matter how tough they are.

If this article had focussed on the disquieting notion that the man or his surrogates were using this painful and charged circumstance for the Senator's own advancement, I would be ecstatic. It is one of the reasons I was much more leery of him than I otherwise would have been beforehand. However it is not, and in fact implies that his opponent, Barack Obama, is a guy much closer to this perception of perfection that Americans seem to clutch to in their viewing of their political leaders (perhaps a much less likable inheritance of George Washington), when he is quite far from being a perfect man who will not make mistakes. Republican and conservative critics are quite right for taking note of the scary fervor that many Obama supporters have of this man's abilities to change things, leading the right to dub their views of him as something akin to a 'Messiah', who will make all right with the world.

I hope that, victorious or not (though I believe that Obama will decisively win the election in November), Obama will start a move to a more restrained and reasonable politics in the United States, instead of this farce of "politics" and character smearing and judgement that utterly destroys the basis of an election in the first place. I apologize for this long rant (another one in a week; jeez), but the news on McCain's supporters and Palin, and watching CNN, which I have come to see as the liberal analogue of Fox News, and reading other forums throughout the day have just created a rising tide of disgust that I needed to let out.

[Jedieb]

Wow, the Rolling Stone article on McCain is just BRUTAL. Not for the faint of heart.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain
Yeah, I read that before. It may be biased, but if only 10% of the article is true, it certainly takes away some of the sparkle on McCain's military service. Also, there are troubling aspects about his political record as well.

In truth, I had to stop reading this, simply for the fact that even though I will not vote for McCain doesn't mean I need to read something so denigratingly vile; doesn't mean that I don't respect the man and his accomplishments, even if he's acted like an all too human being. I have no place saying that McCain is somehow worthy of my ire or is somehow less of a person because of his confessions in prison, or the way he acted as a young man; the only ones who have that ability in my opinion are those who suffered in the POW camps with him, and that's all. As if someone can judge someone else's conduct whilst a prisoner of war. It almost makes me sick. If his comrades in the camps want to spout their disgust with the man and his actions, then they are welcome to do so themselves, perhaps writing op-ed pieces to newspapers, or doing a talking head moment on a new channel. However, in my opinion, if they were so honourable as to not be cowed by torture and turn down leaving the POW camps, then they would be leery of abusing or dishonouring themselves to be used for such a blatantly political or selfish purpose. But then, those who didn't confess are also human and flawed as well, no matter how tough they are.

If this article had focussed on the disquieting notion that the man or his surrogates were using this painful and charged circumstance for the Senator's own advancement, I would be ecstatic. It is one of the reasons I was much more leery of him than I otherwise would have been beforehand. However it is not, and in fact implies that his opponent, Barack Obama, is a guy much closer to this perception of perfection that Americans seem to clutch to in their viewing of their political leaders (perhaps a much less likable inheritance of George Washington), when he is quite far from being a perfect man who will not make mistakes. Republican and conservative critics are quite right for taking note of the scary fervor that many Obama supporters have of this man's abilities to change things, leading the right to dub their views of him as something akin to a 'Messiah', who will make all right with the world.

I hope that, victorious or not (though I believe that Obama will decisively win the election in November), Obama will start a move to a more restrained and reasonable politics in the United States, instead of this farce of "politics" and character smearing and judgement that utterly destroys the basis of an election in the first place. I apologize for this long rant (another one in a week; jeez), but the news on McCain's supporters and Palin, and watching CNN, which I have come to see as the liberal analogue of Fox News, and reading other forums throughout the day have just created a rising tide of disgust that I needed to let out.

After the POW comments the article rips McCain for his adulterous habits with not only his first wife, but his current one as well. It rips into his political career as well, not just his personal one. I still think John McCain is a good man, but that article paints a picture of a man that is just unrecognizable.

One aspect of the article that I wholeheartedly agree with though is the argument that McCain got away with tons of crap because of his father's and grandfather's prestigious careers as Admirals. Any veteran will tell you that no one but an Admiral's son could have gotten away with the stuff McCain pulled.

[CMJ]

I mentioned Frontline's episode last night. This is seriously a great piece on both men. I came away with a new found appreication for both....even their non flattering, ambitous as all hell, qualities.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice2008/

It's two hours, but if you have the time - I highly, highly recommend viewing it.

[Yog]

I'll be sure to check it out. I watched the first two episodes already. Looks great. I also like that there are other Frontline videos in those archives, and I love frontline and documentaries in general. Thanks for the find. :)


Right now though, debate starting in a bit..

[Jedi Master Carr]

so what does everybody think? I think McCain made a huge mistake going on the attack with Ayers and Acorn. It made him look like him the angry man in the room. The last half of the debate was awful for him. I think Obama beat him on Education, Health Care, and abortion. McCain started good for the first 20 minutes but it went down hill after the negative stuff.

[Liam Jinn]

Let's put it this way... Obama > The Penguin.

[Cat X]

Who the hell is Joe the Plumber and why do I care? Is that McCain's new VP?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Joe is some future small business owner who asked Obama a question. McCain took that out of nowhere. Not sure he really got that anywhere. I think Mccain did start stronger but finished the debate awful.

edit
first poll in Obama won 58-31 Obama's favorablity went up and McCain's went down.

[Jedieb]

I'm still watching the debate. I had a softball game and the wife TIVOed the debate. I haven't even read anybody's post on it yet. One quick observation, the difference between how these men look at each other while the other is speaking is striking. McCain's expressions are simply angry, dismissive, disdainful, pick your negative body language adjective. The most you get from Obama is a wry smile. McCain's expressions only reinforce the stories about his legendary temper. I can't believe he can't get those under control.

[Jedieb]

I just saw the abortion portion of the debate, and he killed McCain on it. Women just weren't buying McCain on any of it.

[Yog]

Who the hell is Joe the Plumber and why do I care? Is that McCain's new VP?
Here is Joe Plumber:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFC9jv9jfoA

Obama actually answered that question really well. Why McCain thought it was a good idea to make a big deal out of it, is beyond me. Most people who watched the debate probably never even heard of him.


As for polls..
CNN: Obama 58, McCain 31.
CBS undecideds (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/15/politics/horserace/entry4525171.shtml): Obama 53, McCain 22.
MediaCurves independents (http://mediacurves.com/): Obama 60, McCain 30.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Who the hell is Joe the Plumber and why do I care? Is that McCain's new VP?
Here is Joe Plumber:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFC9jv9jfoA

Obama actually answered that question really well. Why McCain thought it was a good idea to make a big deal out of it, is beyond me. Most people who watched the debate probably never even heard of him.


As for polls..
CNN: Obama 58, McCain 31.
CBS undecideds (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/15/politics/horserace/entry4525171.shtml): Obama 53, McCain 22.
MediaCurves independents (http://mediacurves.com/): Obama 60, McCain 30.

Those polls typifiy what I saw. I think the angry, smugness moments that McCain had really hurt him.

[Jedieb]

McCain and his supporters simply don't understand that virtually every time he goes negative or puts his angry old man face on he LOSES with voters outside of his base. McCain is not going to win this election by being the angry old man who "whups" Obama. Because frankly, have we seen Obama get flustered or angry about anything McCain has thrown at him? Obama looks as cool as an iceberg in comparison to McCain. And that "cool" is what's shielding him from these McCain attacks. In many ways, Obama is reminding me of Reagan. There's a reason he was called the Teflon President. There were times during Reagan's presidency when his opponents threw everything but the kitchen sink at him and none of it stuck in part because Reagan acted as if he couldn't care less. He never lost his cool. Obama has that same quality, McCain doesn't and it's killing him with these voters who still haven't made up their minds.

McCain didn't get the big moment he needed tonight. Hell, he needed several of them. We're now in Dead Girl, Live Boy territory. That's about all he has left.

[Jedieb]

so what does everybody think? I think McCain made a huge mistake going on the attack with Ayers and Acorn. It made him look like him the angry man in the room. The last half of the debate was awful for him. I think Obama beat him on Education, Health Care, and abortion. McCain started good for the first 20 minutes but it went down hill after the negative stuff.

Obama really blew an opportunity to CRUSH McCain on this ACORN crap. He should have thrown McCain's past support of ACORN in his face, including his 2006 speech.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I think Obama didn't want to keep the negative stuff up. He was trying to focus on the issues. I think he could have really hit him on Palin but he was very gracious with that answer. I think people like that about Obama, and it makes him seem more presidential.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

McCain didn't get the big moment he needed tonight. Hell, he needed several of them. We're now in Dead Girl, Live Boy territory. That's about all he has left.


Pretty much. This debate clearly doesnt change a thing except I think harden the vote in Obama's favor.

It's now time to vote in a few states with early voting. So the problem McCain has is that votes cast NOW are with the polls so heavy in Obama's favor. So even in a Dead girl / live boy senario, these are votes Obama has in the bank. By all acounts, early voting has been simply huge. In Georgia especially.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/obama-dominating-among-early-voters-in.html#comment-2423505411229200930


I suggest that the pollsters throw out all data for African American voting in the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections. This election is very different for AAs. In previous elections, the majority of us voted against Bush, but there was a wedge created by the Repulsicans when they appealed to the black church, and paid off black preachers. Particularly in 2004, where the pulpit of the black church became just another campaign stop for high level Repulsican candidates, including Bush.

In 2008, however, there is a ground swell in the black community, and silence from the megachurch leaders, lest they suffer the price of empty collection plates. In the past, we always had to choose the better of two representatives of the status quo. Change was not an option. This year the choice is as clear as a bell. You should see the lines in Atlanta for early voting. And the faces of the people waiting in lines stretching 60 to 100 minutes in length tell the story. “This one is for Florida in 2004!”… “This one is for Fannie Lou Hamer in 1964!”… “This one is for Katrina!”

Yes, we are voting against McCain, but even more importantly, for the first time, we have a candidate for whom to vote wholeheartedly. I’ve never seen or heard anything like this in our neighborhoods. All across the State of Georgia the racist political structure has historically herded us into “Buttermilk Bottom” isolated pockets of political powerlessness. This is the first time that we have an opportunity to rise up, join together and, in one resounding voice say, “Enough!”

I’m not sure you understand. This vote is 400 years in the making. Pollsters don’t seem to take that into account. My 82-year old mother had to be rushed to the hospital last Sunday – congestive heart failure. One of the first things she asked when the oxygen mask was removed was “Will someone please get me an absentee ballot. I don’t want to miss the election.” Committed? Nah, black folks are *passionate* about this one. This is not only a vote for a candidate; it is a vote for America, the America we heard about from our parents and their parents, across the generations. Freedom and Liberty sound so trite these days, but I remember those words spoken by my Dad on his way to the March on Washington. January 20th will be a dream fulfilled. And if you are expecting only a 95% response on Election Day, you are misinterpreting the sound of the drum.

Probably the thing the Republicans didnt want to see, but in reality it's the thing that will begin to truly heal years of AA injustice. And also realizing a dream that they all thought they would never see. You read something like that, it really hits home just how much Obama winning will mean to a awful lot of people.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5glxLRJGYXl2qCzirOL_o5HIuXamAD93R52C80

McCain withdraws from Wisconsin, Maine?

And later in the article, it mentions Obama spent 32 MILLION last week in advertising.

32 million????

And he's increasign the spend week by week?

How much money is he bringing in to be able to just go like mad like this? AND he's got that huge Oct 26 30 minute address to the nation. September's cash intake must be unbelievable to allow him to do this.

[Yog]

More polling... (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/default.aspx)


As I type this, Stan Greenberg is briefing reporters on his focus group of undecided voters in Colorado. He said the respondents felt Obama "won" and that the results were "more decisive than either of the last two." That's a reference to Greenberg's previous focus groups, which also came away preferring Obama.

The most striking result came on the favorability ratings. Although the focus group was officially undecided, it leaned towards McCain. Here were the favorability-unfavorability ratings for each candidate at the start:

McCain: 54 favorable / 34 unfavorable

Obama: 42 favorable / 42 unfavorable

Here's what the ratings looked like after the debate:

McCain: 50 favorable / 48 unfavorable

Obama: 72 favorable / 22 unfavorable
McCain went +20 to +2, while Obama went from 0 to +50 favorability after the debate...

[Yog]

A few highlights from the debate...


"Zero?!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EASpPlcVbdI)


http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1791/mccainwi0.gif
"Woah!!" o_O O_o :eek


http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5702/gasp2ne8.jpg
No, it's not photoshopped.. :lol

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL I know I didn't get the tongue being out bit.

[CMJ]

He was trying to get to the moderator to shake his hand and they each kept going the wrong direction.

[Yog]

I mentioned Frontline's episode last night. This is seriously a great piece on both men. I came away with a new found appreication for both....even their non flattering, ambitous as all hell, qualities.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice2008/

It's two hours, but if you have the time - I highly, highly recommend viewing it.

Quoting this. I just watched it in full now, and I can warmly recommend it as well. :thumbup

[Jedieb]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5glxLRJGYXl2qCzirOL_o5HIuXamAD93R52C80

McCain withdraws from Wisconsin, Maine?

And later in the article, it mentions Obama spent 32 MILLION last week in advertising.

32 million????

And he's increasign the spend week by week?

How much money is he bringing in to be able to just go like mad like this? AND he's got that huge Oct 26 30 minute address to the nation. September's cash intake must be unbelievable to allow him to do this.

Oh, that reminds me, I got paid on the 15th. Time to send some money... And that's where the bulk of Obama's money is coming in. Small doners sending in contribution after contribution. I've never given this much to a campaign. Yet, I have to write a big check. My contributions have been from $10 - $100. Even with this lead I'm not taking any chances.

[Jedieb]

I'm halfway through the Frontline special. And I have to say, after reading the Rolling Stone article, it feels like I've taken a shower. Outstanding program.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

So back to the Joe the Plumber...

Anyone else of the opinion he was the "October Surprise"? McCain seemed to refer to him just a bit TOO well for Joe to be not a plant. It certainly changed the talking points of the campaign.

Could backfire tho

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/16/111449/53/191/632401

GG, the Interwebs are just amazing at digging out the background on someone.

[Jedieb]

Obama is coming to Roanoke tomorrow and I'm going! I'm getting the camera ready as we speak. :cool

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is very cool. I wish he could come near me. I know there some talk he might take a stop in Georgia or Kentucky neither won't be too far from me.

[Darth McBain]

Obama is coming to Roanoke tomorrow and I'm going! I'm getting the camera ready as we speak. :cool

Enjoy EB, and yeah, take some pics... I saw him when he came to Pueblo and it was really exciting.

[Jedieb]

http://images.kodakgallery.com/photos4674/4/60/15/22/30/4/430221560406_0_ALB.jpg

I was pleasantly surprised when Jim Webb came onstage to say a few remarks before introducing Obama. I really like Webb. I just about went nuts when he talked about the new G.I. Bill he pushed through Congress. Without the G.I. Bill I probably wouldn't have been able to make it through college. Hell, I might still be paying my student loans if it wasn't for the G.I. Bill.

Obama gave a great speech. It's a bit surreal to see clips of it on CNN right now. The Prescription Drug commercial joke Obama made went over really well with the crowd. He really is an outstanding speaker. I'd love to see him give a straight up policy speech one day. If he does win, I expect that his Inauguration speech will be one to remember.

And it looks like the polls are holding steady right now. Obama ended yesterday with a 6.8 RCP lead and after all of today's polls it's 6.9. But there may still be a few out later tonight. They seem to be coming out of the woodwork right now. And I swear, if I see one more shot of Joe The Registered Republican Unlicensed Plumber I think I'll puke.

[Yog]

Someone is popular in Roanoke Virginia.. :)

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[Jedieb]

There were close to 7,000 people there. As you can see from the video, the place was packed. It holds about 10,000, but the stage was set up in a way that most of the floor seats were being used for the press and risers for the video equipment. I'd estimate that 80-90% of the available seats were full. This isn't supposed to be able to happen here. If you've watched the news today you've seen where I live described as a conservative area. Roanoke is a tiny blue dot in a sea of red. Kerry and Gore could never have gotten a crowd like this and Clinton never even bothered to come here. Obama is going to do very well in Roanoke and I think he's going to pull in a decent number of votes from the surrounding area. He's not going to win outside of the city, but I think McCain's margins will be smaller than Bush's.

[Jedieb]

"If we're lucky the KKK will kill him."
"He changed his name to Hussein."
"He wants to meet with Fidel. He's a communist."

Anytime that someone says that racism and ignorance isn't something Obama has to deal with I just don't understand how they can be that clueless. I don't think it can stop him from winning, but there's a level of hate and ignorance out there that makes me fear for his life. If Obama gets through one, let alone two terms alive it will be one of the greatest security achievements in history. The Secret Service will have outdone itself. The quotes I started this post with are from people I dearly love. Good people, but they honestly believe those things. And if they can say and believe these things, then I shudder to think what's going through the minds of some of the worst groups out there.

This is why you're seeing these robo-calls by the McCain campaign. It's not because they want to convert Indys and Moderates with these calls. I think they know calls like this work with certain people. It gets them to the polls. These robo-calls are to help get low information voters, voters who may be discouraged by ball poll numbers, out to the polls on election day. We've got to stop the black guy! It's just sad.

[Rutabaga]

One of the nurses at work loudly proclaimed a few days ago that "Anyone who votes for Barack Obama IS AN IDIOT!" Right out at the nurse's station, where plenty of fellow employees and patients could hear her. I found out later that one of the main reasons why she refuses to vote for Obama is because he's black. Turns out she's a flaming racist, unfortunately.

It really does discourage me to realize that there are so many ignorant and silly people here in the 21st century. I have to admit to being extraordinarily fearful that someone will attempt to do something to Obama, and it will be a tragedy if something like that happens.

Just take a look at what Rep. Michelle Bachmann from Minnesota said today:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/17/gop-rep-channels-mccarthy_n_135735.html

Like a lot of other people who have left comments at this thread at HuffPo, I have sent a small donation to Bachmann's opponent, because this is just offensively ridiculous.

As for the rally in Roanoke today...Eb, I'm jealous. Totally jealous. :eee

[Jedieb]

Mudcat Saunders is on Rachel Maddow's show right now talking about the state of the McCain campaign. Not that anyone here probably knows who this guy is. He's a former adviser to John Edwards. I'm bringing him up because I know the guy! My daughter and his daughter are best friends. We've shot the breeze a few times and he's taken the girls fishing. The interview he just gave was right from downtown Roanoke.

Man, it's a small, small, world!


Just take a look at what Rep. Michelle Bachmann from Minnesota said today:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_135735.html

Like a lot of other people who have left comments at this thread at HuffPo, I have sent a small donation to Bachmann's opponent, because this is just offensively ridiculous.

As for the rally in Roanoke today...Eb, I'm jealous. Totally jealous.
Great minds think alike, I sent her opponent $10 right after her segment on Hardball! :crack The woman was simply ridiculous. Matthews looked as if he couldn't believe what she was saying. He kept giving her more and more rope to hang herself. I think she did El Tinklenberg, her opponent, a huge favor tonight. I know I'll be watching this race and hoping she gets her butt bounced out of Congress. If you wanna join the party, here's his site!
http://www.tinklenberg08.com/bio.html

[Vipul Chandrashekar]

http://images.kodakgallery.com/photos4674/4/60/15/22/30/4/430221560406_0_ALB.jpg
I was pleasantly surprised when Jim Webb came onstage to say a few remarks before introducing Obama. I really like Webb. I just about went nuts when he talked about the new G.I. Bill he pushed through Congress. Without the G.I. Bill I probably wouldn't have been able to make it through college. Hell, I might still be paying my student loans if it wasn't for the G.I. Bill.

Jim Webb was one of my two fanboy choices for Obama's veep, next to Bill Richardson. I don't really care for Biden, but I'll make do with him only because having a guy like Webb alongside other awesome Senators like Russ Feingold is probably a good thing.

[Rutabaga]

Just take a look at what Rep. Michelle Bachmann from Minnesota said today:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_135735.html

Like a lot of other people who have left comments at this thread at HuffPo, I have sent a small donation to Bachmann's opponent, because this is just offensively ridiculous.

As for the rally in Roanoke today...Eb, I'm jealous. Totally jealous.
Great minds think alike, I sent her opponent $10 right after her segment on Hardball! :crack The woman was simply ridiculous. Matthews looked as if he couldn't believe what she was saying. He kept giving her more and more rope to hang herself. I think she did El Tinklenberg, her opponent, a huge favor tonight. I know I'll be watching this race and hoping she gets her butt bounced out of Congress. If you wanna join the party, here's his site!
http://www.tinklenberg08.com/bio.html

According to ActBlue, Tinklenberg has raised over $100,000 in donations just since Bachmann's Hardball appearance. It's good to see people reacting in such a positive way.

BTW, here's a petition calling on Congress to censure Bachmann for her comments:

http://www.censurebachmann.com/

[Yog]

Voting machine screwup in WV:
http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200810170676



Some early W.Va. voters angry over switched votes
Jackson County touch-screens switched votes, 3 residents say
By Paul J. Nyden
Staff writer


At least three early voters in Jackson County had a hard time voting for candidates they want to win.

Virginia Matheney and Calvin Thomas said touch-screen machines in the county clerk's office in Ripley kept switching their votes from Democratic to Republican candidates.

"When I touched the screen for Barack Obama, the check mark moved from his box to the box indicating a vote for John McCain," said Matheney, who lives in Kenna.

When she reported the problem, she said, the poll worker in charge "responded that everything was all right. It was just that the screen was sensitive and I was touching the screen too hard. She instructed me to use only my fingernail."

Even after she began using her fingernail, Matheney said, the problem persisted.

When she tried to vote for candidates running for two open seats on the Supreme Court, the electronic machine canceled her second vote twice.

On her third try, Matheney managed to cast votes for both Menis Ketchum and Margaret Workman, Democratic candidates for the two open seats.

Calvin Thomas, 81, who retired from Kaiser Aluminum in Ravenswood in 1983 and now lives in Ripley, experienced the same problem.

"When I pushed Obama, it jumped to McCain. When I went down to governor's office and punched [Gov. Joe] Manchin, it went to the other dude. When I went to Karen Facemyer [the incumbent Republican state senator], I pushed the Democrat, but it jumped again.

"The rest of them were OK, but the machine sent my votes for those top three offices from the Democrat to the Republican," Thomas said.

"When I hollered about that, the girl who worked there said, 'Push it again.' I pushed Obama again and it stayed there. Then, the machine did the same thing for other candidates.

"Why didn't she [the polling clerk] tell me before I even used the machine that might happen? And how many people, especially my age, didn't notice that?

"Jackson County is a Republican county. I am a registered Republican, but I have been voting Democrat since the 1990s."

Thomas, who brought his daughter with him to the polls, said she had the same problem.

"After I finished, my daughter voted. When she pushed Obama, it went to McCain. It happened to her the same way it happened to me. If the poll worker knew that, why didn't she tell me before I even pushed the button?"

Deputy Secretary of State Sarah Bailey said, "When we received a call about this, we immediately called the county and told them to recalibrate the machines to make sure the finger-touch [area] lines up with the ballot.

"Sometimes machines can become miscalibrated when they are moved from storage facilities to early voting areas," Bailey said Friday. "We get a couple of calls about this each election year."

Most voting machines in most counties do work properly, Bailey added.

Jackson County Clerk Jeff Waybright said, "After we got a call from the Secretary of State's Office, we recalibrated the machine. We had already voted over 400 people with no problems."

Voting problems occur when voters touch the screen, Waybright said, but do not put their fingers inside boxes for their candidates.

Waybright blamed the problem on voters.

"People make mistakes more than the machines," he said, "but I went in yesterday and recalibrated the machines. We are doing everything we can not to disenfranchise anybody."

Matheney remains concerned.

"Leaving the polling place," she said, "I wondered how many voters might not have noticed that their vote was switched on the machine."

[Rutabaga]

There is also some apparent voter registration fraud going on here in California:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud18-2008oct18,0,1216330.story

Question: Everyone seems to be ranting and raving about ACORN...why isn't this story getting similar attention?

[Yog]

McCain advisor on the "real Virginia":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjY8A5IFYbg

Can't wait to see JediEb commenting on that one.. :lol

.. and here is St Louis, Missouri a few hours ago...
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1784/obamastlouisq2008101813uj6.jpg

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is awful. I guess Northern VA and Richmond are in another State becuase those areas vote heavily democratic now.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

The backtracking was a beautiful thing though. Had me grinning like an idiot :D

[Jedieb]

Real Virginians
The truth is, I wasn't born and raised here in SW VA.((We've lived here for 15 years and all 3 of our kids were born here.) I'm sure there are plenty of people born and raised here who would say I'm not a "Real" Virginian. And I don't consider myself a Virginian, I consider myself an AMERICAN. I've spent most of my life south of the Mason Dixon line, but much of those years were in places like Miami and Tampa. They're Southern in geographic terms only. I love it here and my wife and I are more than happy. The people here are great. I love the pace and the scenery. I have no problem with Southerners, even if a SMALL number of them would consider me a carpetbagger. I've lived in Jersey, I was born there, and IMO people are generally more polite here in the South. But at times I do miss the attitude of Jersey, but I still wouldn't ever want to go back there or to Tampa or Miami. I'm too use to life in a city of only 100,000 surrounded by small towns and rural areas.

What bothers me about this Real Virginians v. Northern Virginians is that it's just more of the same crap that Palin and McCain are using to rally their base. Small towns v. Big Cities. Rural v. Urban. Americans v. Anti Americans. They're going back to the Rove playbook to try to rally the base and win the same way that Dubya did. The problem is that Bush was able to get to plenty of moderates. And the McCain campaign is ignoring the fact that both of Bush's victories were narrow ones. He lost the popular vote to Gore and only beat Kerry by 1.5 %. And both times Bush could have lost the election with just one state swinging the other way.

The old adage rings true, run to the left or right during the primaries, but run towards the center during the general election. Obama did that by picking Biden. The pick of a Senator with foreign policy experience and over 30 years of service was not for the liberal base, it was for moderates and Indys who were worried about Obama's experience. McCain did the opposite, he went after Bush's base. I just talked to my sister today. She lives in St. Pete and she's voting for Obama. She voted for Dubya in 04. She's an Independent and her preferred candidate was Hillary. The Palin selection pushed her firmly towards Obama. Hopefully, she'll be the perfect example of why McCain loses Florida and this election.

[Rutabaga]

McCain advisor on the "real Virginia":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjY8A5IFYbg

Can't wait to see JediEb commenting on that one.. :lol

.. and here is St Louis, Missouri a few hours ago...
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1784/obamastlouisq2008101813uj6.jpg

I'd sent a PM to Eb with that "real Virginia" story because I couldn't help but think of him when I saw it :D. That was just a really, really dumb thing to say. It's really weird how the Republicans seem to be attempting to co-opt the word "real" lately. It's mind-boggling.

As for the picture from St. Louis...oh my Lord, I kid you not, the first time I saw it, I swear it brought tears to my eyes.

[Jedi Master Carr]

McCain advisor on the "real Virginia":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjY8A5IFYbg

Can't wait to see JediEb commenting on that one.. :lol

.. and here is St Louis, Missouri a few hours ago...
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1784/obamastlouisq2008101813uj6.jpg

I'd sent a PM to Eb with that "real Virginia" story because I couldn't help but think of him when I saw it :D. That was just a really, really dumb thing to say. It's really weird how the Republicans seem to be attempting to co-opt the word "real" lately. It's mind-boggling.

As for the picture from St. Louis...oh my Lord, I kid you not, the first time I saw it, I swear it brought tears to my eyes.

That is why Obama has a chance in Missouri. He will get a lot of votes from the two big cities. About going to the base, the other big problem will be the high turnout. The Turnout should be higher than 2004 which helps Obama since most of those people are his voters.

[Rossos Atrapes]

McCain advisor on the "real Virginia":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjY8A5IFYbg

Can't wait to see JediEb commenting on that one.. :lol

.. and here is St Louis, Missouri a few hours ago...
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1784/obamastlouisq2008101813uj6.jpg

O_o Dear lord. That's a lot of people. O_o

[Jedieb]

Bush won MO by 7 points in 04, but it's worth remembering that Clinton won the state TWICE. It's another example of Red State that McCain is playing defense in.

Friday's RCP lead was 6.7, today if fell slightly to 6.5. The Powell endorsement should dominate tomorrow's news. I don't know how much of an impact it will have on the next 3 days of polling, but it certainly isn't going to help McCain. I still think the race can only get tighter nationally, but I'd love to be wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if the lead is down to the 4-5 range by next week. But it's how it goes down that matters. If Obama is still above 49 or goes over 50 again then all is well. And whatever happens nationally you have to remember that McCain is getting killed on the electoral front.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Obama fundraising for September released!

It's just plain bloody mindblowing.

OVER $ 150,000,000 THIS IS NOT A MISPRINT

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/septembernumbers1?source=20081019_DP_D1

That's just....... how the helll?

[Yog]

Now we know how Obama could afford that 60 minute TV spot....

What is also clear, it smashes his previous record of 66M for august, and outraises by donors any other Presidential candidate in history 3-4 times in one month. I mean, Bush had 286M for his entire 2004 campaign, and that was a record. Obama made more than half of that in ONE month.. :eek

Imagine all the possibilities and flexibility Obama has with that kind of money. He can afford all kind of ad runs (and he has been outperforming McCain 3:1 and 4:1 in ads), and having campaign HQs any state he wants.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Obama's raised something in the order of 440-480 million up to the end of August. Add this unbelievable number and that's minimum 600 million up to the end of September.

So he has not only beaten the best fund raiser ever, he's over doubled it and we're not finished by any means. 700 million by the day of the election? 250 million spend this month alone?

The sheer number of ads and media he could buy would have to drown out ANY attack.

[Yog]

Fund raising all time top 3
1) $150 million September 2008 (Obama)
2) $66 million August 2008 (Obama)
3) $55 million February 2008 (Obama)

Btw, did anyone watch Sarah Palin's appearance on SNL last night?
http://wwpresidentialvote.blogspot.com/

[Rutabaga]

Obama fundraising for September released!

It's just plain bloody mindblowing.

OVER $ 150,000,000 THIS IS NOT A MISPRINT

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/septembernumbers1?source=20081019_DP_D1

That's just....... how the helll?

I have NEVER donated to a presidential campaign. NEVER. Until this year. I haven't given a whole lot, but I've given a few dollars here and there. I really started the donating when McCain picked Palin, because I was so upset. I have to believe there a lot of people out there like me, so big numbers aren't surprising. But this big a number...yeah, totally shocking. In a good way.

BTW, I just had to post this, because I thought this was incredibly funny. Daily Kos posts the candidates schedules each day, and there were 2 things that made me laugh.:

Joe Biden

Tacoma, Washington
Cheney Stadium
Doors Open: 12:00 pm (PDT)
Program Begins: 2:00 pm (PDT)

Look at the name of the place Biden will be at. Cheney Stadium? I wonder if he'll make a joke about that. :)

Sarah Palin

Roswell, New Mexico
Great Southwest Aviation
2:30 pm (MDT)

Roswell, New Mexico, eh? That just tickles my funny bone. :lol

[Yog]

Colin Powell endorses Obama!

It's official: Colin Powell endorses Barack Obama (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/10/powell-obama-en.html)


Retired Army Gen. Colin L. Powell, an adviser to the last three Republican presidents, said today that he is crossing party lines to support the Democratic candidate for the White House.

“I think he is a transformational figure … and for that reason, I’ll be voting for Barack Obama,” Powell said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”

“We need a president who will not just continue … basically the policies that we have been following in recent years,” said Powell, who once briefly considered his own run for the 1996 Republican presidential nomination. “We need a president who is a generational change.”

Powell, 71, who was President Bush’s first secretary of State and served Bush's father as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Ronald Reagan as national security advisor, said he believed that Obama had the style and substance to be successful in the role at a time when America must be better represented and involved on the world stage. He cited a need to speak to world figures “who we have not been willing to talk to before.”

“This is a time for outreach,” Powell said.

He cited the Illinois senator’s “ability to inspire” and the “inclusive nature of his campaign.” He said that Obama in recent weeks has “displayed a steadiness” and “showed intellectual vigor” in addressing issues as diverse as the economy and the selection of his running mate.

The election of Obama as president, Powell said, would “electrify the country and electrify the world.”


Powell announcing the endorsement on Meet The Press:
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Q&A with the press aftwards:
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Man, Colin really blasted the McCain campaign too.

[Jedi Master Carr]

This hurts McCain, so is this the October surprise?

[Yog]

This hurts McCain, so is this the October surprise?
Between the $150M in donations from september and this endorsement, I am not sure how that can be trumped. It's almost too much at once.

[Rutabaga]

That's okay, he's just going to keep talking about Joe the Plumber.

Who isn't really a plumber.

>_<

[Jedieb]

Early this morning I was watching a reporter talk about how this was particularly bad for the McCain campaign because there's no way to spin it. You can't attack Powell without it basically backfiring on you. But of course, common sense isn't going to stop someone like Limpbaugh from spouting garbage. Basically, druggie thinks that Powell's endorsement revolves around you guessed it.... RACE! Poor Rush, I wonder what drugs he'll turn to on Nov. 5th.

[Yog]

Well, McCain campaign found a way to spin it:

"Only an unproven and inexperienced politician like Barack Obama would have to rely so heavily on an another man's resume in making the case for his own candidacy -- and it shows that he's just not ready." -- Tucker Bounds, spokesman McCain-Palin 2008
Interesting perception of reality. So does this mean the McCain camp is going to denounce their endorsements? I mean, they don't need them with all that experience, right?


In a completely different universe, former republican speaker of the House Newt Gingrich says he was impressed with Colin Powell's endorsement. The endorsement eliminated the experience argument:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/story?id=6066689&page=1


Former Republican Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich reacted this morning to Colin Powell's endorsement of Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., arguing, "What that just did in one sound bite... is it eliminated the experience argument."

Powell, the former secretary of state, announced his long-awaited endorsement Sunday morning, explaining that he is backing Obama "because of his ability to inspire, because of the inclusive nature of this campaign, because he is reaching out all across America, because of who he is and his rhetorical abilities – we have to take that into account – as well as his substance – he has both style and substance – he has met the standard of being a successful president, being an exceptional president."

In all-star roundtable edition of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos," former presidential adviser David Gergen categorized Powell's announcement as "the most important endorsement of the campaign so far."


... and in the meanwhile, FoxNews's asked some real journalistic questions for once. McCain was visibly annoyed:
John McCain gets angry when confronted on robocalls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU_lFQP-MeM)

[Jedieb]

Well, McCain campaign found a way to spin it:
[quote]"Only an unproven and inexperienced politician like Barack Obama would have to rely so heavily on an another man's resume in making the case for his own candidacy -- and it shows that he's just not ready." -- Tucker Bounds, spokesman McCain-Palin 2008
I don't think I've ever seen a campaign spokesman say so many boneheaded things in one election. It seems every other week Tucker goes out of his way to say something ridiculous.

Here is one of my favorite parts of Powell's endorsement on Meet the Press;

I'm also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the party say. And it is permitted to be said such things as, "Well, you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim." Well, the correct answer is, he is not a Muslim, he's a Christian. He's always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president? Yet, I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion, "He's a Muslim and he might be associated terrorists." This is not the way we should be doing it in America.
http://images.politico.com/global/muslim%20foto.jpg

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Powell is one of only a handful of Bush appointee's who's deeply respected. That's what makes the (expected) endorsement worth so much and pretty much not spinnable. The way he did it too pretty much killed any legitimate reply.

Talk about one awesome day for Obama.


Poor Rush, I wonder what drugs he'll turn to on Nov. 5th.

Lead.

^^^ Damn, that's a powerful statement. A definite and long overdue up yours to those Muslim smears.

Edit : This endorsment, by the most visible and respected moderate Republican will almost certainly get other moderates to think again. He said so many things that buried the McCain campaign and blew away their talking points.... I would expect to see the polls move again. All McCain will have left is the conservatives and there's no where near enough of them to scrape even a close lose

[Vipul Chandrashekar]

Despite my misgivings about Powell, this is a momentous event, and it will do a lot to swing independents and even a few moderate republicans, especially in the face of a self-destructing McCain campaign.

[Cat X]

BTW Democrats, worried about the voter fraud the GOP gets up to?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a.hk4HvCkpiE&refer=home

Oh well Obama thought of that. 5000 lawyers at the ready! And that is just in Florida.

[Rutabaga]

No big surprise here...Rush Limbaugh, George Will, and Pat Buchanan have all said that Colin Powell's endorsement of Obama is race-based.

*sigh*

:x

[Jaime Tomahawk]

No big surprise here...Rush Limbaugh, George Will, and Pat Buchanan have all said that Colin Powell's endorsement of Obama is race-based.

*sigh*

:x

Funny how the racists would say that. Oh no, cant be because THAT ONE is actually better?

[Jedieb]

A few days ago Drudge desperately clung on to Gallups traditional model when it showed McCain only trailing by 2 points (48-46 IRC). The only problem is even Gallup knows that model isn't in line with this year's electorate. They freely admit it's based on the 04 make up of Rep. and Dems. That's why they have 3 different models right now and average them together. Well, today their 'traditional' model has Obama increasing his lead to 5 points. And the McDepression news is that their Registered Voters model has Obama up by 11 pts! (52-41). The Expanded Model has Obama up by 9 pts. (52-43) What strikes me is that all of their models have Obama over 50%.

Yes, the inevitable idiocy of "Powell endorsed him because he's black" was expected from some like Limpbaugh, but I was kind of surprised George Will went there. He didn't outright say that's what Powell did, but I was surprised he even went as close to saying it as he did. Will has been one of the conservatives out there that has criticized McCain for choosing Palin and I expected more from him. Especially considering the eloquence and strength of Powell's endorsement. If you read Powell's comments from Sunday it pretty much sums up the complaints that Moderates and Independents, from both parties, have had with McCain's campaign. Everything from the selection of Palin to the negative and divisive tone of these last couple of weeks.

The Gallup results pushed Obama's RCP lead back over 5. I'm surprised that we haven't seen another poll from CBS/NYT. They had a big outlier last week with a 14 pt Obama lead. I expect their next poll to be closer, but still show Obama well ahead. That will definitely boost his average.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I was shocked with this endorsement
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/currents/31242619.html

If you know who he is you know he is a die hard republican, but even he realized how messed up McCain's campaign is. I have also noticed several republicans getting away from him like Charlie Crist telling him I will help you if I have time (He went to Disney world one day instead of helping him). And Romney has been more vocal about how bad the campaign has been of course that is because he is hoping McCain loses.

[Yog]

All that negative campaigning is even pushing some republicans away. And the worst could be yet to come...
Rick Davis: Campaign Rethinking Playing The Rev. Wright Card (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/rick-davis-were-rethinkin_n_136173.html)


On a more positive note, Obama on the phone.. :)
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[Jaime Tomahawk]

All that negative campaigning is even pushing some republicans away. And the worst could be yet to come...
Rick Davis: Campaign Rethinking Playing The Rev. Wright Card (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/rick-davis-were-rethinkin_n_136173.html)


Oh for the love of God....... they just do not get it, do they? Voters think his plans suck, his VP is frightingly bad, they are worried about their jobs and bank accounts, let alone the mortgage and they want to run with Wright AFTER Obama so thoroughly debunked that in the primaries?

We have a lot to thank Clinton for it seems for exposing this and making the issue irrelavent now. No one gonna care. NO ONE. If this is the best they can come up with, they absolutely deserve an utter belting.

[Jedieb]

All that negative campaigning is even pushing some republicans away. And the worst could be yet to come...
Rick Davis: Campaign Rethinking Playing The Rev. Wright Card (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/rick-davis-were-rethinkin_n_136173.html)



I don't think Davis's comments about Wright are an accident. I think the McCain campaign is seriously considering going with Wright. They've tried Ayers, Socialism, Taxes and Joe the Plumber. The numbers have tightened a bit, but that was to be expected. But even with a small national gain, the Battleground numbers are looking even worse. And some of what I've heard makes me scratch my head. It looks like McCain is banking on pulling Pennsylvania out of the fire. It's a dubious strategy, but I think it's a recognition of the state of the Battleground race. McCain can't count of winning all of these Bush states that he's currently trailing in. He needs a big Kerry state and they think Penn. is his best chance. I think they're counting on a big turnout from angry bigots who believe the Ayers/Muslim/Socialist type of attacks.I think it's a sign of just how desperate they've become. They're banking on winning a state in which Obama's average lead is double digits!

But I think that McCain is seriously underestimating how much these negative attacks are killing him with moderates of all stripes. Just look at Powell's interview after Meet the Press. It was just brutal for McCain. I'd say that one interview did more damage to McCain than any of his recent attacks against did to Obama.

Man, I wish we could just hold the election tomorrow. The wait is just brutal.

[Yog]

Ken Adelman endorses Obama:


Ken Adelman is a lifelong conservative Republican. Campaigned for Goldwater, was hired by Rumsfeld at the Office of Economic Opportunity under Nixon, was assistant to Defense Secretary Rumsfeld under Ford, served as Reagan’s director of arms control, and joined the Defense Policy Board for Rumsfeld’s second go-round at the Pentagon, in 2001. Adelman’s friendship with Rumsfeld, Cheney, and their wives goes back to the sixties, and he introduced Cheney to Paul Wolfowitz at a Washington brunch the day Reagan was sworn in.

In recent years, Adelman and his friends Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz fell out over his criticisms of the botching of the Iraq War. Still, he remains a bona-fide hawk (“not really a neo-con but a con-con”) who has never supported a Democrat for President in his life. Two weeks from now that’s going to change: Ken Adelman intends to vote for Barack Obama. He can hardly believe it himself.

Adelman and I exchanged e-mails today about his decision. He asked rhetorically,

Why so, since my views align a lot more with McCain’s than with Obama’s? And since I truly dread the notion of a Democratic president, Democratic House, and hugely Democratic Senate?

Primarily for two reasons, those of temperament and of judgment.

When the economic crisis broke, I found John McCain bouncing all over the place. In those first few crisis days, he was impetuous, inconsistent, and imprudent; ending up just plain weird. Having worked with Ronald Reagan for seven years, and been with him in his critical three summits with Gorbachev, I’ve concluded that that’s no way a president can act under pressure.

Second is judgment. The most important decision John McCain made in his long campaign was deciding on a running mate.

That decision showed appalling lack of judgment. Not only is Sarah Palin not close to being acceptable in high office—I would not have hired her for even a mid-level post in the arms-control agency. But that selection contradicted McCain’s main two, and best two, themes for his campaign—Country First, and experience counts. Neither can he credibly claim, post-Palin pick.

I sure hope Obama is more open, centrist, sensible—dare I say, Clintonesque—than his liberal record indicates, than his cooperation with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid portends. If not, I will be even more startled by my vote than I am now.

[Cat X]

Notice how many of these Republican endorsements say somethign about Palin? She's poison in her OWN party. Let alone independants.

[Yog]

McCain campaign giving up on Colorado?
Story with video clip (http://thepage.time.com/2008/10/20/king-of-the-world-says-mccain-pretty-much-giving-up-on-colorado/)


CNN's John King reports that the Republican team is "making tough decisions" as it sees Colorado as well as New Mexico and Iowa drift away.

Says the campaign's "risky strategy" is counting on Florida, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Virginia, and a comeback in Pennsylvania.
So basically, McCain will put all his eggs in the Pennsylvania basket where Obama got a +12 point lead? Wow. And he still needs to win 6 Bush states he is trailing behind for this to work.

Edit: If he is serious about pulling out of Colorado, campaigning in Virginia does not even make sense, since he would 'only' need PA + 6 Bush states to hit 270. Looking at electoral numbers, McCain seems to be replacing the states to defend from:
NV, CO, MO, IN, OH, VA, NC, FL (8 states)
to
NV, MO, IN, OH, NC, FL (6 states) + attacking PA

He then has 2 less Bush states to defend, but he only has 2 weeks to turn around a solid blue state. Very risky strategy.

Scenario1 - new strategy:
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3932/mccainstratnt3.jpg

compare that with previous strategy..

Scenario2 - old strategy:
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2899/oldstratof4.jpg

I don't know about you, but I find scenario 1 even less likely than scenario 2.

[Jedieb]

Over at 538 Nate sums up the last 10 days of the race this way, McCain has closed ground, but all he did was get back to where the race was in early October, with Obama having a 6 point lead. I think that today we saw a bad day of polling for McCain. Obama's RCP lead jumped up to 5.8. That's almost a full point from yesterday and .2 from Saturday. I think Powell's endorsement will start showing in the polls in the next couple of days. It's just bad all around. Far right nimrods like Limbaugh are hurting McCain with their idiotic race accusations. If Powell had just stopped with a generic endorsement it would have been bad enough, but he practically gave a dissertation on what's wrong with McCain's campaign and his reaction to the financial crises.

In the next few days I think you'll see a few more moderate Republicans start to jump ship on McCain. The battle for the future of the GOP starts now. The Palin faction is going to back McCain all the way to the bitter end. They'll revel in the Ayers attacks and the upcoming rehashing of the Wright issue. They're probably even going to start bringing up Obama's drug use when he was a young man. (Even though Dubya's cocaine use never bothered them a bit.) But moderates are going to start to distance themselves from McCain's harsher attacks. Romney just recently balked at the Socialist charges that McCain has been throwing. I don't expect Romney to say he's voting for Obama, but he's setting himself up as the moderate alternative to Palin. I think he'd love to see Palin and Huckabee battle over the religious wing of the party while he tries to get moderates back into the fold. Either way, it's going to be a bitter and defeated party without something earth shattering happening in these last 2 weeks.

[Jedieb]

Breaking news; Obama is canceling his campaign events on Thurs. and Friday because his grandmother has taken ill. He's heading to Hawaii right now.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is very sad for him. I hope she isn't deathly ill. About pulling out of Colorado. He is going to have a tough time taking Pennsylvania. He be better off focusing on Colorado and Virginia.

[Jedieb]

It looks like he won't be leaving his campaign until Thursday. I guess this is kind of good news because it must mean she's stable enough that he can afford to wait until Thursday to go to Hawaii.

[Yog]

The story about Obama's grandmother made the frontcover on Dagbladet (http://www.dagbladet.no/) online edition, one of our major news papers, with the following sad photo.. :(

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/1135/obamaxcopy1224550843122qa3.jpg

[Rutabaga]

All that negative campaigning is even pushing some republicans away. And the worst could be yet to come...
Rick Davis: Campaign Rethinking Playing The Rev. Wright Card (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/rick-davis-were-rethinkin_n_136173.html)


On a more positive note, Obama on the phone.. :)
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Oh, good Lord, if they do resurrect the Reverend Wright issue, I swear I'll puke :x. The Clinton campaign tried it, and it backfired seriously. People simply didn't care. And they still don't care. What they do care about is the economy, jobs, healthcare, their retirement funds, and issues like that. It will simply be a sick, sad sense of deja vu if we suddenly have Reverend Wright yelling on the TV again. And if they do attempt to play that card again, well, then they'd better be prepared for further scrutiny of the questionable things that pastors that Palin has been involved with.

I hope Obama's grandma is going to be okay.

BTW, the video was fun :).

[Jaime Tomahawk]

If Wright was on the Rethugs minds to bring up, the news that Obama's Grandmother is ill will give that serious second thought. You would simply have to be insane to unleash personal attacks at a point like that.

It's simply turning into a perfect storm against McCain this week. What he really is running out of now is simply time. And every day something big makes the news, that's one more day McCain cant get his message out, his surrogates are thrown off song and with just 13 days left, that's something he cant afford to have.

Powell's endorsement to me is also really becoming a tipping point - I'm seeing a lot more Republicans quite visibly wanting to be critical of especially Palin or jumping ship with the news and blogs. It's signaled to moderates that it's right to be critical or to think their party's lost it's way. I'll be interested to see the polls in 24 hours, that will fully reflect what seems to be really going on.

[Yog]

Palin takes Joe the Plumber wordplay to a ridiculous new level. Now, we have “Tito the Builder", “Phil the Bricklayer”, “Rose the Teacher” and... "Barack the Wealth Spender”!
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/21/palin-dubs-obama-barack-the-wealth-spender/#more-25734

:rolleyes

[Jedieb]

Palin takes Joe the Plumber wordplay to a ridiculous new level. Now, we have “Tito the Builder", “Phil the Bricklayer”, “Rose the Teacher” and... "Barack the Wealth Spender”!
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/21/palin-dubs-obama-barack-the-wealth-spender/#more-25734

:rolleyes

Yet, she still continues to outdraw McCain at Republican rallies. Ladies and gentleman, I give you the Republican front runner for 2012, Caribou Barbie!

Two early polls out today, Rasmussen and Zogby. Rasmussen tightened up to 4 pts, 50-46. Zogby had some bad news for McCain. It gives Obama an 8 point lead and has him at a solid 50. Zogby has consistently had McCain doing better than other national polls, but the last few days have seen Obama open up his lead in the Zogby poll. Sun.- 2.7, Mon. - 5.4, and today it jumps all the way to around 8. As the other polls come in today the lead will either stay put in the mid 5's or jump over 6. And mind you, this is just the RCP average I'm talking about. There are a couple of other poll of polls out there that have Obama doing a point or two better.

It looks like the Powell endorsement is going to push the numbers for these next days in Obama's direction robbing McCain of another 2-4 days. But what's really starting to kill McCain is the disparity in advertising. Here's a STUNNING stat;

Miami Ads Last Week
Obama 1,120
McCain ZERO

Now, are these ads going to get my parents to switch their vote? Nope, but what they'll do is drown out McCain's message. That's got to discourage some of his supporters and if the ads are effective, swing some undecideds and moderates. Sometimes, it's not just about winning a county, it's about narrowing the margin. Mccain needs big numbers in Dade county to offset big Obama numbers from Broward.

[Jedieb]

Nate at 538 just posted a great write up on the current daily polls. If you're curious of what a baseball stat geek thinks about the major polls or just want a good description on the strengths and weaknesses of the major polls out there I highly recommend you read it.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/tracking-poll-primer.html

[Yog]

^^ Great analysis, as always.


Jon Stewart nailed it on the negative campaigning:
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[Morgan Evanar]

Unfortunately here in Miami we have a lot of people who don't understand the world running around yelling "communista communista communista!"

[Jedieb]

Unfortunately here in Miami we have a lot of people who don't understand the world running around yelling "communista communista communista!"

I was raised by those people, I know them quite well. What Morgan says is right on the mark. Simply put, many older Cubans have been irrevocably shaped by their past. It's not just that they think the Democratic party is ineffective or pales in comparison to the Republicans. They HONESTLY believe most Democrats are communist. Cries of Socialism don't just ring true with many of these older Cubans, they're a call to arms. You want to rile up that niche of hispanic support? Just throw the S-Word and they'll reply with chants of 'COMMUNISTA'! JFK? He was a communist. Bill Clinton? Communist. Hillary? Communist? Obama? Not only is he a communist, but the day after he's innaugurated he'll personally fly to Cuba and offer to sell Florida to Fidel.

I love them to death, but many of them are just plain nuts when it comes to politics.

Gallup is out and it's more bad news for McCain. He lost ground in 2 of their 3 models and the 3rd was unchanged. He's at 5.9 and it looks to get worse before the end of the day. But, as a word of caution, I'd like to offer this graph of the 2000 popular vote:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/Bush%20v%20Gore.jpg
Just look at how much ground Gore made up in the last days of the campaign. Most polls had Bush winning the popular vote during the last week of the campaign. The DUI story broke and Bush's numbers dropped a bit and Gore's shot up. Without the effective ground game of the Florida Republicans, Nader, and butterfly ballots he doesn't eke out that win. Now, Obama's battleground advantage is so strong that McCain would need a similar miracle, not today, but YESTERDAY. I don't think this is going to happen, but it is worth considering.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I remember Gore went around the country non stop the last two weeks. He hardly slept during the last couple of days. He was in two locations in one day talking.

[Yog]

Check out your taxcuts under Obama here :cool:
http://taxcut.barackobama.com/

[Lilaena De'Ville]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/biden-to-suppor.html


Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.

"Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

Um, what?? So we should elect Obama to face this coming crisis because he has no experience? Where is the media coverage on Biden's ridiculous statements?

Oh, no, instead we have an in depth article on Cindy McCain's past 30- years of life in the New York Times. Nice, media. Nice.

[Cat X]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/biden-to-suppor.html


Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.

"Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."
Um, what?? So we should elect Obama to face this coming crisis because he has no experience? Where is the media coverage on Biden's ridiculous statements?

Oh, no, instead we have an in depth article on Cindy McCain's past 30- years of life in the New York Times. Nice, media. Nice.

Maybe you should go and find the ENTIRE quote that they left out.

"They will find he has steel in his spine" and it continued on from there. And it's clear Joe was NOT talking about some sort of conspiracy with the full speech, which will no doubt be online somewhere soon.

So in other words, Joe was talking about Obama's strength, not some ridiculous BS that there will be a crisis. It's McCain nonsense of cut the quote out of context and make it for something that is not. Just like the "Bitter" misquoting, except that was Hillary's campaign. Or Reverand Wright.

But lets say there is a crisis. It's not like McCain is this great guy in a crisis given his ridiulous campaign (OMG SUSPEND CAMPAIGN!!!!).... or that idiot he has as VP has a clue......

And in real Election news, McCain is suposed to be now pulling out of WI and Iowa. So, McCain has "pulled out" of Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin, New Hampshire, New Mexico, and Colorado. And is clearly pinnign his hopes on flipping PA.

Sound familiar?


Remember when Rudy Giuliani was running to be our 911th president? Remember how, as it got closer and closer to election day in each primary state, he would slip further and further in the polls? Remember how he would keep giving up on campaigning in important states that he needed to win because everyone hated him in those states? Remember how in the final days of his campaign, like 5 people would show up to his rallies because they knew he was headed for a horrible, horrible defeat? Remember how he finally came up with that brilliant strategy of banking everything on a final fight in Florida? Remember how he finished a pathetic third in Florida and then dropped out the next day while everyone laughed at him?

Well, it seems like that sequence of events is happening again, my friends, although this time, it’s happening, my friends, to, my friends, John McCain

...

And… And… And… Wait for it… Here’s one of John McCain’s political directors: Mike DuHaime, the same Mike DuHaime who got Rudy Giuliani elected president as President Giuliani’s campaign manager!
HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Jedieb]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/biden-to-suppor.html


Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.

"Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

Um, what?? So we should elect Obama to face this coming crisis because he has no experience? Where is the media coverage on Biden's ridiculous statements?

Oh, no, instead we have an in depth article on Cindy McCain's past 30- years of life in the New York Times. Nice, media. Nice.

Biden's slow pitch to the Republicans is getting plenty of coverage LD. In fact, I'm watching Hardball right now and Matthews is covering it. The problem is that the experience argument still HURTS McCain. It hurts him because he threw that argument in the trash when he selected Palin. Her negatives are now through the roof. And to make matters worse, she matches Biden gaffe for gaffe. For goodness sake's she tanked a question today FROM A THIRD GRADER! Some 3rd grader asks her what a VP does and towards the end of her answer she starts babbling about powers and duties that Vice Presidents DON'T have. It was just embarrassing. Again, every time McCain tries the experience argument Palin rears her empty head.

I expected Obama's numbers to hold steady but instead, it actually INCREASED! A devastating NBC/Wal St. Journal poll gives Obama a 10pt lead and has him at 52. His RCP lead is now at 7.2. McCain is running out of time and these numbers are just brutal.

[Yog]

I expected Obama's numbers to hold steady but instead, it actually INCREASED! A devastating NBC/Wal St. Journal poll gives Obama a 10pt lead and has him at 52. His RCP lead is now at 7.2. McCain is running out of time and these numbers are just brutal.
There is also this poll which was rather brutal...

Growing Doubts About McCain's Judgment, Age and Campaign Conduct
Obama's Lead Widens: 52%-38% (http://people-press.org/report/462/obamas-lead-widens)

Lots of interesting cross data in that survey too. Of the more interesting is the favorability graphs:
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8466/favor1fq0.gif

Edit - Oh my goodness, Drudge is biting the sour apple and leaking next Zogby result:

ZOGBY: OBAMA TAKES 10-POINT LEAD... DEVELOPING...



For goodness sake's she tanked a question today FROM A THIRD GRADER! Some 3rd grader asks her what a VP does and towards the end of her answer she starts babbling about powers and duties that Vice Presidents DON'T have. It was just embarrassing.
And this is like the 4th time she gaffes up that question. The Olbermann rant today was amazing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXfIZ_De-B8

Is 5 times the charm? When will she finally grasp what a VP is supposed to be doing?



And to make matters worse, she matches Biden gaffe for gaffe.I'd say she gaffes at about 5x the frequency Biden does. But let's not forget McCain who keeps forgetting the context of what he is saying. This video is from today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLVSURlFoQs

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

That graph for Palin is pretty telling.

[Jedi Master Carr]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/biden-to-suppor.html


Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.

"Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

Um, what?? So we should elect Obama to face this coming crisis because he has no experience? Where is the media coverage on Biden's ridiculous statements?

Oh, no, instead we have an in depth article on Cindy McCain's past 30- years of life in the New York Times. Nice, media. Nice.

Biden's slow pitch to the Republicans is getting plenty of coverage LD. In fact, I'm watching Hardball right now and Matthews is covering it. The problem is that the experience argument still HURTS McCain. It hurts him because he threw that argument in the trash when he selected Palin. Her negatives are now through the roof. And to make matters worse, she matches Biden gaffe for gaffe. For goodness sake's she tanked a question today FROM A THIRD GRADER! Some 3rd grader asks her what a VP does and towards the end of her answer she starts babbling about powers and duties that Vice Presidents DON'T have. It was just embarrassing. Again, every time McCain tries the experience argument Palin rears her empty head.

I expected Obama's numbers to hold steady but instead, it actually INCREASED! A devastating NBC/Wal St. Journal poll gives Obama a 10pt lead and has him at 52. His RCP lead is now at 7.2. McCain is running out of time and these numbers are just brutal.

That comment about the VP controlling the Senate is ridiculous. She knows nothing about what the VP does. She should have watched the miniseries John Adams she would have seen how he hated he couldn't do anything in the senate. Also about these polls I think this shows how the negative ads aren't working and Powell is helping him now.

[Cat X]

On a different note, the anti intellectual BS that the Rethugs are so good at has infected our local Young Conservatives in Australia and they are conducting a witchhunt against "LIBERAL!!!!" academics. It's a long story exactly what is goign on, but it's McCarthyism - or our version of "REAL AMERICA!!!!" going on and exported by politcal hacks from the USA.

Given the ties between our former loathed Prime Minister and the loathed soon to be former President of the USA, I have very few words for how much I hate the Rethugs for exporting their vile tatics here and vile language and culture wars.

I very much really now have a very personal reason why I want all of you Democrats to get out there and cause a landslide. Push back against this garbage. And I am getting to work here because I have had enough. Enough of this conservative culture wars garbage.

[Rutabaga]

On a different note, the anti intellectual BS that the Rethugs are so good at has infected our local Young Conservatives in Australia and they are conducting a witchhunt against "LIBERAL!!!!" academics. It's a long story exactly what is goign on, but it's McCarthyism - or our version of "REAL AMERICA!!!!" going on and exported by politcal hacks from the USA.

Given the ties between our former loathed Prime Minister and the loathed soon to be former President of the USA, I have very few words for how much I hate the Rethugs for exporting their vile tatics here and vile language and culture wars.

I very much really now have a very personal reason why I want all of you Democrats to get out there and cause a landslide. Push back against this garbage. And I am getting to work here because I have had enough. Enough of this conservative culture wars garbage.

What's really bothering me is the continual claims from some people on the right that liberals and progressives are Godless and hate America. Nothing could be further from the truth, and I find it HIGHLY offensive and demeaning. Not to mention driving a huge wedge right into the middle of the American populace. Remember how Bush once said he would be a uniter and not a divider? Um, yeah, right.

It also is starting to drive me crazy that some people on the right are starting to co-opt the word "real." "Real America," "real Americans," etc. Who are they to determine who is "real"? And are the rest of us just big fat fakers? Gimme a break.

[Jedieb]

I actually find myself less angry at Republicans now than I have been in the past. It's clear to me now that the Republican party is battling ITSELF right now, as much as it is Democrats. Bush has really driven the party into the ground. He came into office because he was able to unite practically all factions of his party. Unfortunately, his 2 terms have split the party asunder. Fiscal conservatives are simplly horrified by how he's spent money. Are you a Conservative who cares about civil liberties and big government? Then you vomit when you look at The Patriot Act and Guantanamo Bay. Are you a moderate Republican who's pro-choice and thinks the government has no business telling people who they should have sex with? Bush shoves the culture wars down your face with everything from the Marriage Amendment to limiting stem cell research. And even if you're a Conservative who favors National Security you look at not only how he got us into Iraq, failed to kill/capture Bin Laden, but the sheer incompetence of how the war was run leaves you scratching your head.

And this leaves us with the one part of the Bush base that still loves him; evangelicals who really believe God elected him President. This group now has a new hero; Sarah Palin. They love her and when McCain goes down in flames they will elevate her to front runner status for 2012. And does anyone seriously think she can unify all of the factions I listed above? There are Republicans out there who value intellectual curiosity. Do you think they'll rally around Palin? Guys like Romeny are chomping at the bit to take Palin and her followers on. The infighting is liable to last for most of Obama's first term.

I know far too many Republicans to label these people as evil. What I hate are the tactics that their party has resorted to. I hate that they've been bullied by the far religous right. That's why Palin is on this ticket and that's why they're probably going to lose.

The first 3 polls of the day have shot Obama's lead up to 7.6 Zogby has him up 52-42. It just seems to get worse. Obama should be leaving for Hawaii tonight. You have to wonder if McCain and Palin will continue making negative stump speeches while the man is visiting his ailing grandmother.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I saw that Zogby poll, that is surprising considering he was only up like 4 points the other day. I think the Powell endorsement is helping him now.

[Morgan Evanar]

And this leaves us with the one part of the Bush base that still loves him; evangelicals who really believe God elected him President. This group now has a new hero; Sarah Palin. They love her and when McCain goes down in flames they will elevate her to front runner status for 2012. And does anyone seriously think she can unify all of the factions I listed above? There are Republicans out there who value intellectual curiosity. Do you think they'll rally around Palin? Guys like Romeny are chomping at the bit to take Palin and her followers on. The infighting is liable to last for most of Obama's first term.

I know far too many Republicans to label these people as evil. What I hate are the tactics that their party has resorted to. I hate that they've been bullied by the far religous right. That's why Palin is on this ticket and that's why they're probably going to lose.

The first 3 polls of the day have shot Obama's lead up to 7.6 Zogby has him up 52-42. It just seems to get worse. Obama should be leaving for Hawaii tonight. You have to wonder if McCain and Palin will continue making negative stump speeches while the man is visiting his ailing grandmother.The Republicans made their bed with the Evangelicals, and, for letting them dictate social policy, they're getting what they deserve. I don't feel sorry for any of them. If they have a lick of sense they'll divorce themselves from the Evangelicals as quickly as possible.

If anyone deserves to be marginalized politically it is the Evangelical movement. They've done more to run this country into the ground than anyone else.

[Cat X]

If anyone deserves to be marginalized politically it is the Evangelical movement. They've done more to run this country into the ground than anyone else.


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/22/9355/4279/150/638528

Stories like this will help that exact process. Palin WILL damage the religious right as a political brand. The more damage, the better.

It's sad because Christian pricipals match up better to the social policies of the Left. And as far as abortion goes, there would be less abortion when there is proper sex education and access to proper contraception. People are going to have sex, so give them the knowledge to make good decisions and access to medical help to manage. Abstenance education only leads to more teenage pregnancies.

[Jedieb]

And this leaves us with the one part of the Bush base that still loves him; evangelicals who really believe God elected him President. This group now has a new hero; Sarah Palin. They love her and when McCain goes down in flames they will elevate her to front runner status for 2012. And does anyone seriously think she can unify all of the factions I listed above? There are Republicans out there who value intellectual curiosity. Do you think they'll rally around Palin? Guys like Romeny are chomping at the bit to take Palin and her followers on. The infighting is liable to last for most of Obama's first term.

I know far too many Republicans to label these people as evil. What I hate are the tactics that their party has resorted to. I hate that they've been bullied by the far religous right. That's why Palin is on this ticket and that's why they're probably going to lose.

The first 3 polls of the day have shot Obama's lead up to 7.6 Zogby has him up 52-42. It just seems to get worse. Obama should be leaving for Hawaii tonight. You have to wonder if McCain and Palin will continue making negative stump speeches while the man is visiting his ailing grandmother.The Republicans made their bed with the Evangelicals, and, for letting them dictate social policy, they're getting what they deserve. I don't feel sorry for any of them. If they have a lick of sense they'll divorce themselves from the Evangelicals as quickly as possible.

If anyone deserves to be marginalized politically it is the Evangelical movement. They've done more to run this country into the ground than anyone else.

Yes, I'd love to see the Evangelical movement go down in flames. But I know a couple of people that are proud to call them selves Christian Conservatives and they're good people. Proud that they voted for Bush. Great teachers. One woman works with young black girls and even drives one to school everyday. These people don't match the profile that you see on these You Tube videos that show the worst of McCain supporters. So I know I just can't paint them all with a wide brush stroke. But I hate how a small minority of the Republican party has hijacked it. The party needs to crash and burn so it can rebuild itself into something more moderate. Not that they'll ever get my vote, I'm a life long Dem. But the country would be better off not to have one major party hijacked by the far right or the far left.

I'm watching Countdown and he's showing Joe the Plumber and Obama. Olberman is showing the ENTIRE exchange. And you can see that Joe wasn't straight about how much his company was worth and how much he was going to make if he ever bought it. But if you listen to Obama, he pretty much explained to the guy that he was going to do better under his plan.

$150K for clothes and make up. Holy cow, the party that use to throw stones at John Edwards for $400 haircuts must be tripping over itself about how they're going to spin this.

Two days off the trail for Obama. I can't recall another instance where a Presidential candidate got off the trail for two days this late in the race. I wonder how McCain and Palin will respond. Speaking of Palin, she's coming to Salem, VA which is right next door to Roanoke. I think it's on a Monday. Now, I'd go see McCain in a heartbeat if it were a weekend. But on a Monday it's not worth ditching work to see McCain for me, and certainly not Palin. But, I would be interested to see the crowds. I can't believe that my neighbors would repeat some of the same things I've heard from other Palin rallies.

[Cat X]

I think Obama going home for sick Grandma will play incredibly well. And he has enough poeple stumping for him that he wont be missed too much.

In other news, McCain campaign freaking out over Al-Quaida stating the obvious and claiming they should pray for a McCain victory as it makes their cause easier......

And this would be me howling with laughter as a result.

[Yog]

Man, Palin is having a rough day.

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ9bP5P7x9o) was a pretty good take on the $150K wardrobe thing. And on Hardball smackdown, Matthews gave Palin a roasting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHB6APpaH5k) for saying VP is 'in charge of senate'. Then there is this story (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/palin_family_travel) about Paling using Alaska funds to sponsor her kids travel expenses and luxury hotels. At least, it must be good knowing (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/22/palin-god-will-do-the-right-thing-on-election-day/) "God will do the right thing on election day..".

There was also an interview on CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/21/palin.sitroom/index.html) where she appologized about her comments on the patriotic values of "the real America", and among other things, there was this gem:

"We don't like to toot our own horn so we don't," Palin said. "But, I have, I do have more experience than Barack Obama does. You know, he had served for his 300 days before he became a presidential candidate and that wasn't in, in executive office."
300 days??? He served 12 years of public office, with an electorate up to 2,500 times bigger than Wasilla, and a GDP of nearly $589 billion USD. Not to mention a BA in Political Science, specialising in International Relations, working at Business International Corporation and New York Research Interest Group, directing Developing Communities Project, Editor & President of Harvard Law Review, graduating Harward as Juris Doctor with great honors, writing two best selling books, directing Illinois' Project Vote, teaching constitutional law at the University of Chicago, and civil rights litigator, just to name a few things. Yes, that pales in comparison to having been Mayor of a 5K town and beauty pageant...

[Jedieb]

Man, Palin is having a rough day.

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ9bP5P7x9o) was a pretty good take on the $150K wardrobe thing. And on Hardball smackdown, Matthews gave Palin a roasting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHB6APpaH5k) for saying VP is 'in charge of senate'. Then there is this story (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/palin_family_travel) about Paling using Alaska funds to sponsor her kids travel expenses and luxury hotels. At least, it must be good knowing (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/22/palin-god-will-do-the-right-thing-on-election-day/) "God will do the right thing on election day..".

There was also an interview on CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/21/palin.sitroom/index.html) where she appologized about her comments on the patriotic values of "the real America", and among other things, there was this gem:

"We don't like to toot our own horn so we don't," Palin said. "But, I have, I do have more experience than Barack Obama does. You know, he had served for his 300 days before he became a presidential candidate and that wasn't in, in executive office."
300 days??? He served 12 years of public office, with an electorate up to 2,500 times bigger than Wasilla, and a GDP of nearly $589 billion USD. Not to mention a BA in Political Science, specialising in International Relations, working at Business International Corporation and New York Research Interest Group, directing Developing Communities Project, Editor & President of Harvard Law Review, graduating Harward as Juris Doctor with great honors, writing two best selling books, directing Illinois' Project Vote, teaching constitutional law at the University of Chicago, and civil rights litigator, just to name a few things. Yes, that pales in comparison to having been Mayor of a 5K town and beauty pageant...

But can he see Russia from his house? I ASK YOU SIR, CAN HE SEE RUSSIA FROM HIS HOUSE?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :crack

[Yog]

But can he see Russia from his house? I ASK YOU SIR, CAN HE SEE RUSSIA FROM HIS HOUSE?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :crack
No. But unless her house is on the island of Little Diomede (http://www.slate.com/id/2200155/), neither can Palin.. :p

Ah, and before you know it, Palin tramples around in the salad again.. :)
Palin confused about the difference between preconditions and preparation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bWZ70SCucc)

[Jedieb]

I just read a transcript of the Palin interview with Dobson. And that pretty much sums up who's had the nads of the Republican party for the last few. Honestly, people who believe that God is a Republican and can, will, or should intervene on McCain and Palin's behalf on election day are ... I'm at a loss. Enjoy the interview.


The Amazing Palin-Dobson Interview
Wednesday October 22, 2008

Here's a rough transcript of some of the key moments in the fascinating interview of Sarah Palin by James Dobson of Focus on the Family. You can listen to it here:

Palin says she need's God's help to go around the mainstream media to get her message out:

"You cant pick a fight with those who buy ink by the barrelful...this is where my faith becomes even more important to me. I have to have faith that our message will get out to the American people minus the filter of the mainstream media.... We can't get that message through the mainstream media. ... I have to have that faith that God's going to help us get that message out there."

On the feeling that God brought Trig's birth in order to help the pro-life movement:

"I've always had near and dear to my heart the mission of protecting the sanctity of life and being pro-life, a hardcore pro-lifer, but I think this opportunity for me to really be walking the walk and not just talking the talk. There's purpose in this also for a greater good to be met. I feel so privileged and blessed to have been, I guess, chosen to have Trig enter our lives because I do want it to help us in our cause here in allowing America to be a more welcoming nation for all of our children."

On hearing the news that she was pregnant with a Downs Syndrome child:

"I was about 13 weeks along when I found out that Trig would be born with Downs Syndrome. To be honest with you, it scared me though, and I knew it would be a challenge and I had to really be on my knees for the entire rest of the pregnancy asking that God would prepare my heart. And just the second he was born it was absolute confirmation that that prayer was answered."

Dobson says to her, "We're on the same team. I'm just trying to serve the lord as you are." He notes that he and other ministers have prayed for "God's intervention" and that "God's perfect will will be done in November the fourth."

"Well, it is that intercession that is so needed and so greatly appreciated. And I can feel it too, Dr. Dobson. I can feel the power or prayer and that strength is provided through our prayer warriors across this nation and I so appreciate it. [Dobson says, " Well, you hear that everywhere you do, don't you?] I do, and that is what allows us to continue to be inspired and strengthened. And it's just a great reminder also when we hear along the rope lines that people are interceding for us and praying for us; it's our reminder to do the same, to put this all in God's hands, to seek his perfect will for this nation and to, of course, seek his wisdom and guidance in putting this nation back on the right track."

Dobson expresses appreciation that the Republican platform is the "the strongest pro-life, pro-family document to come out of a political party, even more so than the platforms during the campaigns of Ronald Reagan." Palin responds:

"Dr. Dobson thank you so much for recognizing that. This is a strong platform [built] around the planks in this platform that respect life and respect the entrepreneurial spirit of this great country and those things, back to the social issues that are what Republicans, at least in the past, had articulated and tried to stand on. Now, finally, we have very solid planks in the platform that will allow us to build an even stronger foundation for our country. It's all good and it's encouraging. You would maybe have assumed that we would have gotten further away from those strong planks. But no, they're there, they're solid, we stand on them and again I believe that it is the right agenda for the country at this time. Very, very clear and contrasted tickets in this election November 4th. People are going to see the clear contrasts, you just go to the planks in our platforms and that's where you see them."

Dobson asks whether, based on her private conversations with McCain, she thinks he "also strongly supports those views" and "will implement it."

"I do, from the bottom of my heart. I am such a strong believer that McCain believes in those strong planks and we do have good conversations about some of the details too of the different planks and what they represent. I'm very heartened that John McCain ... he doesn't want a Vice President who will check the opinions ... of me at the door and we talk about some of these and they're very important. It's most important though, as you're suggesting, that Americans know that John McCain is solidly there on those solid planks in our platform that build the right agenda for America."

Dobson asks if she's discouraged about the polls showing that McCain-Palin is behind:

"I am not discouraged at all, even hearing those poll numbers because, for some reason, I have found myself over and over again in my life being put in these underdog positions and yet still when victory needed to be reached in order to meet this greater good, it's always worked out just perfectly fine despite the fact that over and over again I've been, and I know John McCain has been, in underdog positions. To me, it motivates us, makes us work that much harder and it also strengthens my faith because I'm going to know at the end of the day, putting this in God's hands, that the right thing for America will be done, the end of the day on November 4th. "

Dobson says that he anad other pastors have been praying to God for his intervention in the election: "We were just asking for, rather boldly asking, for a miracle with regard to the election this year.." Palin responded:

"We'll be praying too for your ministry and for those pastors whom you have just mentioned also. Collectively, we can do all that we have within us to strengthen our country and to let Americans know that government has to be on their side, it's their government and as we seek God's wisdom and His will in this election, we have to have faith that it's all going to be good at the end of the day there on November 4th as this country moves forward."

[Cat X]

I just read a transcript of the Palin interview with Dobson. And that pretty much sums up who's had the nads of the Republican party for the last few. Honestly, people who believe that God is a Republican and can, will, or should intervene on McCain and Palin's behalf on election day are ... I'm at a loss. Enjoy the interview.



Show them Obama preaching at Martin Luther King's own church. Not lecturing, PREACHING.

Frankly Obama knows his Bible better than Dobson does.

[Rossos Atrapes]

I just read a transcript of the Palin interview with Dobson. And that pretty much sums up who's had the nads of the Republican party for the last few. Honestly, people who believe that God is a Republican and can, will, or should intervene on McCain and Palin's behalf on election day are ... I'm at a loss. Enjoy the interview.



Show them Obama preaching at Martin Luther King's own church. Not lecturing, PREACHING.

Frankly Obama knows his Bible better than Dobson does.

If I may, I'd like to interject a point here. What Obama did at Ebenezer Baptist Church is a form of preaching, however, many would only put it loosely in that context. What Obama spoke of quite eloquently and powerfully that day was a message of social justice, and the Scripture's moral message, but he only referred to the scripture passage rarely in what I consider a slightly tailored stump speech for a church audience. Some might be confused as to why I am drawing a line here, but I promise it is not because I am demonizing or saying Obama or anyone who ascribes to such thinking is wrong, or that there isn't really a message of social justice and moral strictures in the Bible. Definitely not.

[Excised rant about social justice, moral values and Scripture; I'm not sure this is the right forum or if people care enough for me to get on my soap-box.]

George Bush and Sarah Palin are in my opinion good examples of why a person who allows their faith to inform their decisions to the point that the far religious right wish are bad choices for leading a country; the point of the belief is for salvation, not for more power for America, or more wealth for America. Being wealthy and safe does not indicate that you are in God's good graces. On the contrary, by most readings, what is understood is that to be a good Christian is to be persecuted, whether it is in the sense of the Roman martyrs or in the sense of being ostracized because you don't agree and are willing to say it. America isn't God, and America's interests aren't necessarily God's interests. The person who thinks that following God's will (such as Bush or Palin, if they aren't cynically pandering to these people to acquire power) will raise America into the forefront of Global power and prestige is: misguided, doing some sort of drugs or combination of drugs, or performing a conscious sort of mental gymnastics.

[Jedieb]

Some early polling this morning has Obama supporters smiling. Zogby has Obama up by 12, Rassmussen by 7, his early morning RCP average is up to 7.4. And here's a link to a big ten polling site that has Obama crushing McCain throughout the midwest.
http://www.bigtenpoll.org/

[Yog]

In other news, McCain campaign freaking out over Al-Quaida stating the obvious and claiming they should pray for a McCain victory as it makes their cause easier......

And this would be me howling with laughter as a result.

National Security Network has some quotations from those password locked forums and some comments here (http://www.nsnetwork.org/node/1030).


Today the AP and Washington Post both report that Al-Qaeda-linked websites are celebrating the U.S. financial crisis and looking to the U.S. elections as a way to promote four more years of policies that work to Al-Qaeda’s advantage. Richard Clark, William Bratton and other experts have warned that we should expect Al-Qaeda to try to involve itself in this election. In 2004 Al Qaeda bombed a train in Madrid days before the Spanish election and Osama Bin Laden released a video just before the U.S. election that pledged more attacks. Presently, our intelligence services tell us that Al Qaeda has been able to reconstitute in its safe haven along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border and the GAO even warned in April that “al Qaeda is now using the Pakistani safe haven to put the last element necessary to launch another attack against America into place.” It is past time that the United States shift its focus back on those who attacked us on 9-11.

Washington Post: Al-Qaeda rejoices over financial crisis and George Bush’s failed policies. The Washington Post reports today that “Al-Qaeda is watching the U.S. stock market's downward slide with something akin to jubilation, with its leaders hailing the financial crisis as a vindication of its strategy of crippling America’s economy through endless, costly foreign wars against Islamist insurgents.” Al-Qaeda affiliated websites took credit for luring the Bush administration into a trap that “exhausted its [America’s] resources and bankrupted its economy.” This web posting is the most recent claim by al Qaeda and Taliban-related groups trumpeting the global financial crisis and predicting further decline for the U.S. and the West. [Washington Post, 10/22/08]

Al-Qaeda-linked site expresses support for John McCain’s presidential bid; cites McCain as most likely to continue Bush policies. The Associated Press reports that “Al-Qaida supporters suggested in a Web site message this week they would welcome a pre-election terror attack on the U.S. as a way to usher in a McCain presidency. The message, posted Monday on the password-protected al-Hesbah Web site, said if al-Qaida wants to exhaust the United States militarily and economically, ‘impetuous’ Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain is the better choice because he is more likely to continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. ‘This requires presence of an impetuous American leader such as McCain, who pledged to continue the war till the last American soldier,’ the message said. ‘Then, al-Qaida will have to support McCain in the coming elections so that he continues the failing march of his predecessor, Bush.’” The Washington Post added that “And at least some of its supporters think Sen. John McCain is the presidential candidate best suited to continue that trend. ‘Al-Qaeda will have to support McCain in the coming election,’ said a commentary posted Monday on the extremist Web site al-Hesbah, which is closely linked to the terrorist group. It said the Arizona Republican would continue the ‘failing march of his predecessor,’ President Bush.” As Adam Raisman, a senior analyst for the Site Intelligence Group, says “The idea in the jihadist forums is that McCain would be a faithful ‘son of Bush’ -- someone they see as a jingoist and a war hawk... They think that, to succeed in a war of attrition, they need a leader in Washington like McCain.” [AP, 10/22/08. Washington Post, 10/22/08]

Experts express concern that al-Qaeda will attempt to influence November Elections through terrorism. Counter-terrorism and law-enforcement experts agree that al-Qaeda may attempt to influence the Presidential elections through propaganda or attacks. According to William Bratton and R.P. Eddy, “Al Qaeda has a history of trying to influence elections, most notably with the 2004 train attacks in Madrid,” and also with a “videotaped statement, released just days before the elections” between President Bush and John Kerry. Al-Qaeda may already be trying to influence this year’s race. Counter-Terrorism expert Richard Clarke stated that the recent bombings in Islamabad, Pakistan and Sana, Yemen could be the “opening round of a pre-election campaign” according to counter-terrorism expert Richard Clarke. Clarke went on to analyze al-Qaeda’s reasoning behind these actions, explaining that “it could just be to use the election to magnify the media coverage of their terrorist activities, make al Qaeda look even more capable than it is, and remind everyone they are still around. Such a media-amplified attack might help them with recruitment and fundraising. Even more likely is the possibility that al Qaeda would hope the attack would benefit John McCain. Opinion polls, which, as noted above, al Qaeda reads closely, suggest that an attack would help McCain.” [NY Daily News - William Bratton and R.P. Eddy, 10/22/08. Newsweek - Richard Clarke, 10/02/08],

.. and this was how the McCain campaign reacted to Washington Post's article:

McCain advisers freaked out by al-qaeda preference for McCain (http://washingtonindependent.com/14218/mccain-advisers-freaked-out-by-al-qaeda-preference-for-mccain)


I just got off a conference call held by the McCain campaign to deny that Al Qaeda, contrary to reports in the AP and the Washington Post, is rooting for their man. To describe the call as panicked would be an understatement.

Jim Woolsey, the former CIA director who publicly connected Iraq to the 9/11 attacks without any evidence in 2001, and senior foreign-policy adviser Randy Scheunemann spent more time whining about the Washington Post’s standards of fairness than on the logic of why Al Qaeda might prefer Sen. John McCain. “An amazing piece of journalism, and I use journalism in quotation marks,” Scheunemann said, going on to list barely approving quotes of Sen. Barack Obama from Hamas, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad and Libyan dictator Muammar Qaddafi, which he said he wasn’t going “to characterize.” Woolsey, for his part, peered into the mind of what he called “one individual Islamist blogger from one terrorist Islamist blog” and determined that he was “clearly trying to damage John McCain” and “not speaking from his heart.”

What was absent from the call, oddly enough, was any discussion about why Al Qaeda might want McCain to win. And there the case is simple enough. Al Qaeda prefers an indefinite U.S. occupation of Iraq and a bellicose U.S. all across the Muslim world to radicalize Muslims to its terrorist cause and drain the U.S. of its financial wealth — what Osama bin Laden calls his “bleed to bankruptcy” strategy. Hence, the reason why, as the CIA eventually concluded, Bin Laden tried to help George W. Bush’s reelection in 2004 by releasing a late-October tape. McCain pledges basic continuity with Bush on the Iraq war. As Scheunemann put it, “John McCain will spend what it takes to win.”

Yet the idea of Al Qaeda preferring a U.S. strategy that strengthens it confounded the McCain camp. “It is ridiculous to believe that in its heart of hearts, Al Qaeda wants John McCain to be the president,” Woolsey said. “It’s ludicrous.” But the only thing that’s ludicrous is Woolsey’s expectation that the American public will keep falling for this sort of misdirection by the same blinkered analysts who blundered the U.S. into Iraq in the first place.


Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and former chief counter-terrorism adviser on the U.S. National Security Council Richard Clark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke) was on Olbermann last night, pointing out the pink elephant in the room:
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Now, forgive my long wall of text, but the point of my post is not so much attacking Bush / McCain foreign policy (even though I venomously disagree with those policies). My point is, it's important to be aware the race is not quite over yet, even though Obama is running circles around McCain in the polls. Al-qaeda have in the past attempted, and some would say with success, manipulating elections to forward their goals. One example is the 2004 Al Qaeda bombing of a train in Madrid days before the Spanish election, and another example was Osama Bin Laden releasing a video just before the Presidential election in 2004 pledging more attacks.

My concern is they might try to manipulate this election one way or the other, seeing as Obama is the one who wants US forces to engage in armed operations against Taliban and Al-Quaeda in the FATA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_Areas_of_Pakistan) region in western Pakistan, while McCain in several interviews and debates have denounced this strategy.

Furthermore, it should be rather obvious by now, if you've been following this election, which candidate wants to prolongue the stay in Iraq. A prolongued presence and costly placement of US troops in Iraq has been a cornerstone in Al-Qaeda's long term strategy to wear out US economy by attrition and fuel anti western sentiments, thus improving the recruitment of agents of "jihad". A strong indication of the effectiveness of this strategy is looking at CIA and other security analysts projection and estimation of Al-Qaeda terror cell network. It has strengthened, not weakened under Bush administration.

We're now at a critical cross road in this election. It is only 12 days before we know the final result, and the room for last minute shifts in electoral opinion is narrowing. That does not mean the race is over though. I hope this does not happen, but if there is some kind of major terrorist attack, Bin Laden audio tapes, or similar attempt to turn the election around, I hope the American people are smart enough to not be blindsided by it, and elect the candidate they believe is right on the issues and best represents their interests, in important areas as economy AND national security, rather than basing their vote on fear and deception.

What do you guys think?

[Jedieb]

There really is no telling how the public will react to an Al-Qaeda attack or a Bin Ladin video. It may have helped Bush a bit in 04, but I don't think it had a major effect. That being said, he only lost Ohio and the election by just over 100,000 votes. That's why I think any kind of video or statement by Bin Laden would be ineffectual against the popular vote and electoral lead Obama has built. Now, a terroist attack would move numbers more, but this isn't 04 and I just don't know how voters will react. And a terroist attack also brings up the experience argument. The argument that McCain himself trashed when he chose Palin.

[Charley]

To hell with your grandma! (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/23/gop-strategist-on-palins_n_137226.html)

Wow, they actually went there. That's horrible.

Also, Black Zorro, famed Obama supporter and wealth distributor, carving up young white women! (http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/17789356/detail.html)

[Jedieb]

To hell with your grandma! (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/23/gop-strategist-on-palins_n_137226.html)

Wow, they actually went there. That's horrible.

Also, Black Zorro, famed Obama supporter and wealth distributor, carving up young white women! (http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/17789356/detail.html)

Yeah, apparently, Obama should have booked his flight with Shatner and flown off by himself. Idiots.

Early voting seems to be hitting record numbers wherever it's going on. Democrats seem to be doing quite well. What's happening in North Carolina must be particularly troubling for McCain;


And in North Carolina, which has been Republican but is now a swing state, of the 480,000 people who have voted early, 54% were Democrats, 27% Republicans, and 16% independents.

Those are scary numbers if you're a McCain supporter. You know that both candidates are getting close to 90% of their party's votes. Obama has a slight lead with Independents. So what you probably have so far is Obama winning close to 60 votes (And I'm being very conservative) out of every hundred cast so far. And unlike any poll, these votes are in the bank. No October/November surprise will change them.

[Jedieb]

A couple of quick notes about the 'Black Zorro" attack. Obviously, this guy will hopefully get caught and punished. But Drudge has it front and center on his site as if this is a major story and not some random isolated act of violence. The way he's framing it makes it seem as if Democratic supporters (scary black ones) are going after McCain supporters. And the racial angle of this story isn't going to go unnoticed.

And I don't want to go off the deep end, but if the picture on Drudge hasn't been flipped, her 'attacker' carved the B in BACKWARDS. Gee, wouldn't that usually happen if you did that to yourself while looking in a mirror?

[Yog]

A couple interesting in depth articles about both campaigns today.

First up is Time. Why Barack Obama Is Winning (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1853025-1,00.html).. with follow up interview (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/the_full_obama_interview.html), some of the answers were impressive.


But even more interesting was the New York Times article. It goes behind the scenes of the McCain campaign with several revelations about the campaign strategy, and what was the rationale for their decisions. Among other things, how they attempting to shape the image of McCain and how they chose Palin. I was surprised how big of a role Steve Schmidt and Rick Davis have in the strategic decisions. It reads like a story book. Some of the stuff is rather mind blowing. Much like I suspected, the suspending of the campaign for bailout negotiations was a tactical move part of the election strategy.
The Making (and Remaking) of McCain (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/magazine/26mccain-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

A few excerpts:


On the morning of Wednesday, Sept. 24, John McCain convened a meeting in his suite at the Hilton hotel in Midtown Manhattan. Among the handful of campaign officials in attendance were McCain’s chief campaign strategist, Steve Schmidt, and his other two top advisers: Rick Davis, the campaign manager; and Mark Salter, McCain’s longtime speechwriter. The senator’s ears were already throbbing with bad news from economic advisers and from House Republican leaders who had told him that only a small handful in their ranks were willing to support the $700 billion bailout of the banking industry proposed by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. The meeting was to focus on how McCain should respond to the crisis — but also, as one participant later told me, “to try to see this as a big-picture, leadership thing.”

As this participant recalled: “We presented McCain with three options. Continue offering principles from afar. A middle ground of engaging while still campaigning. Then the third option, of going all in. The consensus was that we could stay out or go in — but that if we’re going in, we should go in all the way. So the thinking was, do you man up and try to affect the outcome, or do you hold it at arm’s length? And no, it was not an easy call.”

Discussion carried on into the afternoon at the Morgan Library and Museum as McCain prepared for the first presidential debate. Schmidt pushed for going all in: suspending the campaign, recommending that the first debate be postponed, parachuting into Washington and forging a legislative solution to the financial crisis for which McCain could then claim credit. Exactly how McCain could convincingly play a sober bipartisan problem-solver after spending the previous few weeks garbed as a populist truth teller was anything but clear. But Schmidt and others convinced McCain that it was worth the gamble.

...

Despite their leeriness of being quoted, McCain’s senior advisers remained palpably confident of victory — at least until very recently. By October, the succession of backfiring narratives would compel some to reappraise not only McCain’s chances but also the decisions made by Schmidt, who only a short time ago was hailed as the savior who brought discipline and unrepentant toughness to a listing campaign. “For better or for worse, our campaign has been fought from tactic to tactic,” one senior adviser glumly acknowledged to me in early October, just after Schmidt received authorization from McCain to unleash a new wave of ads attacking Obama’s character. “So this is the new tactic.”

...

“We had a narrative problem,” Matt McDonald recalls. “Obama had a story line: ‘Bush is the problem. I’m not going to be Bush, and McCain will be.’ Our story line, I argued, had to be that it’s not about Bush — it’s Congress, it’s Washington. And Obama would be more about partisanship, while John McCain would buck the party line and bring people together.”

The others could see McDonald’s line of reasoning — and above all, the need to separate McCain from Bush. But the message seemed antiseptic, impersonal. That was when the keeper of McCain’s biography, Mark Salter, took the floor. There’s a reason McCain bucks his party, McDonald remembers Salter arguing. It’s because he puts his country ahead of party. Then the speechwriter, who is not known for his dispassion, began to yell: “We’re talking about someone who was willing to die before losing his honor! He would die!”

Salter stalked out of the meeting to have a cigarette and didn’t return. But he had said enough. The metanarrative of Heroic Fighter was now joined with one that evoked postpartisan statesmanship. The new narrative needed a label. The first version was “A Love for America.” Then “America First.” And finally, the one that stuck: “Country First.”

...

“Gentlemen, let me put a few things on the table for observation and discussion,” Steve Schmidt said to his fellow strategists while sitting in a conference room in the Phoenix Ritz-Carlton. “Would anyone here disagree with the premise that we are not winning this campaign?”

No one disagreed. It was Sunday, July 27, and Obama had just concluded an eight-day swing through the Middle East and Europe that received practically round-the-clock media coverage. “Would anyone disagree with the premise,” Schmidt went on, “that Mr. Obama has scored the most successful week in this entire campaign? I mean, they treated him like he was a head of state! So tell me, gentlemen: how do we turn this negative into a positive?”

“It’s third and nine,” Bill McInturff, a pollster, observed. “Time to start throwing the ball down field.”

Eventually, it was Schmidt who blurted out the epiphany concerning Obama. “Face it, gentlemen,” he said. “He’s being treated like a celebrity.”

The others grasped the concept — a celebrity like J-Lo! or Britney! — and exultation overtook the room.

...

On Sunday, Aug. 24, Schmidt and a few other senior advisers again convened for a general strategy meeting at the Phoenix Ritz-Carlton. McInturff, the pollster, brought somewhat-reassuring new numbers. The Celebrity motif had taken its toll on Obama. It was no longer third and nine, the pollster said — meaning, among other things, that McCain might well be advised to go with a safe pick as his running mate.

Then for a half-hour or so, the group reviewed names that had been bandied about in the past: Gov. Tim Pawlenty (of Minnesota) and Gov. Charlie Crist (of Florida); the former governors Tom Ridge (Pennsylvania) and Mitt Romney (Massachusetts); Senator Joe Lieberman (Connecticut); and Mayor Michael Bloomberg (New York). From a branding standpoint, they wondered, what message would each of these candidates send about John McCain? McInturff’s polling data suggested that none of these candidates brought significantly more to the ticket than any other.

“What about Sarah Palin?” Schmidt asked.

After a moment of silence, Fred Davis, McCain’s creative director (and not related to Rick), said, “I did the ads for her gubernatorial campaign.” But Davis had never once spoken with Palin, the governor of Alaska. Since the Republican Governors Association had paid for his work, Davis was prohibited by campaign laws from having any contact with the candidate. All Davis knew was that the R.G.A. folks had viewed Palin as a talent to keep an eye on. “She’d certainly be a maverick pick,” he concluded.

The meeting carried on without Schmidt or Rick Davis uttering an opinion about Palin. Few in the room were aware that the two had been speaking to each other about Palin for some time now. Davis was with McCain when the two met Palin for the first time, at a reception at the National Governors Association winter meeting in February, in the J. W. Marriott Hotel in Washington. It had not escaped McCain’s attention that Palin had blasted through the oleaginous Alaska network dominated by Frank Murkowski and Ted Stevens, much in the same manner that McCain saw himself doing when he was a young congressman. Newt Gingrich and others had spoken of Palin as a rising star. Davis saw something else in Palin — namely, a way to re-establish the maverick persona McCain had lost while wedding himself to Bush’s war. A female running mate might also pick off some disaffected Hillary Clinton voters.

After that first brief meeting, Davis remained in discreet but frequent contact with Palin and her staff — gathering tapes of speeches and interviews, as he was doing with all potential vice-presidential candidates. One tape in particular struck Davis as arresting: an interview with Palin and Gov. Janet Napolitano, the Arizona Democrat, on “The Charlie Rose Show” that was shown in October 2007. Reviewing the tape, it didn’t concern Davis that Palin seemed out of her depth on health-care issues or that, when asked to name her favorite candidate among the Republican field, she said, “I’m undecided.” What he liked was how she stuck to her pet issues — energy independence and ethics reform — and thereby refused to let Rose manage the interview. This was the case throughout all of the Palin footage. Consistency. Confidence. And . . . well, look at her. A friend had said to Davis: “The way you pick a vice president is, you get a frame of Time magazine, and you put the pictures of the people in that frame. You look at who fits that frame best — that’s your V. P.”

Schmidt, to whom Davis quietly supplied the Palin footage, agreed. Neither man apparently saw her lack of familiarity with major national or international issues as a serious liability. Instead, well before McCain made his selection, his chief strategist and his campaign manager both concluded that Sarah Palin would be the most dynamic pick. Despite McInturff’s encouraging new numbers, it remained their conviction that in this ominous election cycle, a Republican presidential candidate could not afford to play it safe. Picking Palin would upend the chessboard; it was a maverick type of move. McCain, the former Navy pilot, loved that sort of thing. Then again, he also loved familiarity — the swashbuckling camaraderie with his longtime staff members, the P.O.W. band of brothers who frequently rode the bus and popped up at his campaign events, the Sedona ranch where he unwound and grilled wagonloads of meat. By contrast, McCain had barely met Palin.

That evening of Aug. 24, Schmidt and Davis, after leaving the Ritz-Carlton meeting, showed up at McCain’s condominium in Phoenix. They informed McCain that in their view, Palin would be the best pick. “You never know where his head is,” Davis told me three weeks later. “He doesn’t betray a lot. He’s a great poker player. But he picked up the phone.” Reached at the Alaska State Fair, Palin listened as McCain for the first time discussed the possibility of selecting her as his running mate.

...

Now all three of McCain’s closest advisers were on board. The next morning was Thursday, Aug. 28. Salter and Schmidt drove Palin to McCain’s ranch. According to Salter, the senator took the governor down to a place where he usually had his coffee, beside a creek and a sycamore tree, where a rare breed of hawk seasonally nested. They spoke for more than an hour. Then the two of them walked about 40 yards to the deck of the cabin where the McCains slept. Cindy joined them there for about 15 minutes, after which the McCains excused themselves and went for a brief stroll to discuss the matter. When they returned, McCain asked for some time with Schmidt and Salter. “And we did our pros and cons on all of them,” Salter told me. “He just listened. Asked a couple of questions. Then said, ‘I’m going to offer it to her.’ ”

...

The spunky hockey mom that America beheld the next morning instantly hijacked Obama’s narrative of newness. (“Change is coming!” McCain hollered, almost seeming startled himself.) And five days later, in the hours after Palin’s stunningly self-assured acceptance speech at the G.O.P. convention, I watched as the Republicans in the bar of the Minneapolis Hilton rejoiced as Republicans had not rejoiced since Inauguration Night three and a half long years ago. Jubilant choruses of “She knocked it out of the park” and “One of the greatest speeches ever” were heard throughout the room, and some people gave, yes, Obama-style fist bumps. When the tall, unassuming figure of Palin’s speechwriter, Matthew Scully, shuffled into the bar, he was treated to the first standing ovation of his life. Nicolle Wallace confessed to another staff member that she had cried throughout Palin’s speech. Allowing his feelings to burst out of his composed eggshell of a face, Schmidt bellowed to someone, “Game on!”

Just as quickly, he resumed his natural state of arch contemplativeness. “Arguably, at this stage?” he observed. “She’s a bigger celebrity than Obama.”

...

The following night, after McCain’s speech brought the convention to a close, one of the campaign’s senior advisers stayed up late at the Hilton bar savoring the triumphant narrative arc. I asked him a rather basic question: “Leaving aside her actual experience, do you know how informed Governor Palin is about the issues of the day?”

The senior adviser thought for a moment. Then he looked up from his beer. “No,” he said quietly. “I don’t know.”

...

A senior adviser to McCain said: “The town halls, the ethics bill, immigration reform — all are examples. I think McCain finds it galling that Obama gets credit for his impressive talk about bipartisanship without ever having to bear the risk that is a part of that. It is so much harder to walk the walk in the Senate than to talk the talk.” By extension, then, if the McCain campaign’s conduct would appear to be at odds with the man’s “true character,” it is only because the combination of a dishonorable opponent and a biased media has forced his hand. Or so goes the rationale for what by this month was an increasingly ugly campaign.

The worry among his aides had long been that McCain would let his indignation show. Going into the debates, an adviser expressed that very concern to me: “If he keeps the debates on substance, he’s very good. If it moves to the personal, then I think it’s a disaster.” Accordingly, Salter advised McCain before the first debate to maintain, one person privy to the sessions put it, “a very generous patience with Obama — in terms of, ‘I’m sure if he understood. . . .’ ”

“The object wasn’t to appear condescending at all — really, the opposite,” an adviser said of Salter’s tactic, which judging by the postdebate polls seemed to backfire. “You put a bullet in a gun, figuring it’ll get shot once. We had no idea it would be shot 10 times.”

...

Schmidt vowed that McCain would spend the final days of the campaign focused on the economy — and on Joe the plumber, the kind of entrepreneur (so McCain thought at the time) who would become an endangered species in an Obama administration. But that did not stop Schmidt from a lengthy monologue questioning Obama’s character and assailing the opposition’s “vicious” and “racially divisive” ads. At a certain point, when a member of the foreign media asked him if all of this spinning was likely to help McCain, Schmidt allowed himself a small grin and said: “Well, look. One of the things I always wonder is why we come in here at the end. . . . It doesn’t really matter, to be totally truthful with you. It’s just part of the ritual. Like eating turkey on Thanksgiving.”

A few minutes later, his close friend and colleague Nicolle Wallace tugged Schmidt away from the scrum. They exited the spin room while Axelrod was still holding forth and flew back to Washington late that night.

McCain and a number of his advisers remained at their hotel on Long Island. At the hotel bar where many of them lingered into the late hours, I asked one of them whether the debate could make a difference at this late stage. The adviser maintained that regardless of the instant-poll numbers, Joe the plumber and other talking points would likely resonate in the weeks to come.

Then the adviser said with a helpless smile, “Hopefully that’ll change the narrative.”

Notice how it's all about tactical election considerations, but very little talk about what is good for the country. Some of these inside descriptions reminds me of the way Clinton's campaign was run, and eventually turned into a train wreck.

[Yog]

And I don't want to go off the deep end, but if the picture on Drudge hasn't been flipped, her 'attacker' carved the B in BACKWARDS. Gee, wouldn't that usually happen if you did that to yourself while looking in a mirror?
I don't want to go off the deep end either. But there are so many things about this story that I find suspect. The only way that could have happened the way she explained, it was written with her face upside down relative to the attacker. That raises a few other questions as well.

Assuming the B is backwards because she was on the ground and he was above her head, how could he restrain both her arms and keep her head still in that position to "write" with the accuracy of a pencil on paper? He would have the knife in the right hand, and then somehow use the left arm to keep her down. To keep both her arms out of the way, the arm would have to be across her chest, and the right arm at about her shoulder level. This makes the writing part quite a gymnastic feat. Which brings me to the next point...

How do you scratch the letter B, unless her head is utterly still? And what kind of knife lets you "carve" without any bleeding or cuts? Those scatches looks like they were made with something more blunt, like fingernails, or an ATM card for example. Oh, and if it was scratched upside down, how come the upper loop of the B is bigger than the lower (that is a very unusal style), and the thickness of the line indicate it was initiated and finalised the other way around..

Ok, I'll stop it. Makes my head hurt.. :headache

Edit - from SA forums:

I know we've all said this, but I have experience with knives and human skin (and that's all you're going to hear about that), and there is no way that mark was made by a knife.

A fingernail, yes. The edge of a credit card, yes. But no knife would make that wide of a mark without having a deeper gash in the center of the mark. If she was actually mugged, she did the mark herself in the car afterwards.

[Rutabaga]

Just one comment about the "B" mark on the woman's face, and the fact that it's a screaming headline at Drudge...did Drudge also show as much attention to the story last week about the woman canvassing for Obama who was punched in the fact by a man screaming stuff about ACORN? Probably not.

Now, a little aside about something local coming up here in the election...I live in California, and Proposition 8 is the hot potato issue. This is the one about changing the state constitution to define marriage as being only between a man and a woman. I am voting a hearty NO to that proposition.

Well, a former co-worker today hit me with the usual scare tactic arguments about this, basically that "if we give the gays the right to get married, then fathers will want the right to marry their daughters and brothers will want the right to marry their sisters!" Thank goodness she stopped short of the old "men will marry horses" chestnut. It really caught me by surprise, yikes :\.

[Yog]

Just one comment about the "B" mark on the woman's face, and the fact that it's a screaming headline at Drudge...did Drudge also show as much attention to the story last week about the woman canvassing for Obama who was punched in the fact by a man screaming stuff about ACORN? Probably not.
Drudge is one of the most biased news sources on the Internet, even more than foxnews. Very conservative. Drudge carefully selects the headlines that will hurt the Obama campaign the most, and actively ignores news that hurts McCain.

Must admit, I do frequent his site on a daily though, because of curiousity. Can't help myself. There is like a new spin every day, and I feel strangely entertained to see what he comes up with.


Edit - campaign finance update!

John McCain and the Republican National Committee reported having a combined $84 million as of last week to spend before Election Day, according to reports filed Thursday with the Federal Election Commission.

McCain, who has accepted public financing for his campaign, is restricted in his spending. As of Oct. 15 he had more than $25 million in hand, but more than $1 million debts. The RNC, which has been helping his candidacy, had more than $59 million in the bank.

At McCain's spending rate of $1.5 million a day, the Arizona senator likely has only $12 million to spend in the next 11 days before the Nov. 4 election.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CAMPAIGN_MONEY?SITE=ILEDW&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Jedieb]

Well, a former co-worker today hit me with the usual scare tactic arguments about this, basically that "if we give the gays the right to get married, then fathers will want the right to marry their daughters and brothers will want the right to marry their sisters!" Thank goodness she stopped short of the old "men will marry horses" chestnut. It really caught me by surprise, yikes :\.

I would have responded, how would the amendment stop a father/man from marrying his daughter/woman? Honestly, I just don't understand these people. One of the reasons I support Civil Unions is because I just don't think the majority of the country is ready for gay marriage. Civil Unions is a bridge that will still grant gay couples the legal rights they deserve. Hopefully, in a couple of decades the country will be ready to accept REALITY and let these people live their lives.

Another strong day of polling for Obama and his RCP lead looks like it will end at 7.5, half a point higher than yesterday. And it would have gone over 8 if it wasn't for that ridiculous IBD/TIPP poll which had Obama with only a 1 point lead. This same poll had McCain leading Obama in the 18-24 demo 74%-22%! How any organization could go to press with something so ridiculous is beyond me. Over at 538 Nate tore it apart. The statistical odds of that demo stat being correct? Wait for it.... wait for it.... the odds are 54,604,929,633-to-1. Embarrassing.

[Yog]

And in other polling news, Obama / McCain neck to neck in rural poll of 13 swing states:
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE49M5SF20081023



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - After trailing by 10 points in U.S. rural areas, Democrat Barack Obama is neck-and-neck with Republican John McCain among rural voters in 13 swing states, a potentially key group for winning the White House, according to a poll released on Thursday.

Obama was supported by 46 percent and McCain by 45 percent of 841 likely voters surveyed from October 5-21, as U.S. financial turmoil deepened, according to the poll commissioned by the nonpartisan Center for Rural Strategies in Whitesburg, Kentucky.

A month ago, the poll showed McCain led 51-41. This time, respondents said Obama would do better than McCain on the economy, taxes and "the financial crisis in the country."

Nearly 20 percent of Americans live in rural areas. They tend to be social and fiscal conservatives. President George W. Bush won rural districts nationwide by 19 points in 2004.

The poll showed rural voters have cooled from their initial enthusiasm for Sarah Palin, the Republican nominee for vice president. Forty percent view her favorably and 42 percent unfavorably, compared to a 48-33 split in September. Obama, McCain and Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee for vice president, had higher ratings than Palin in the new poll.

McCain led Obama 53-43 on the question of who would do better in handling the war in Iraq. In the earlier poll, he held a 56-37 advantage as well as a lopsided lead on who would do the best job on taxes and a 3-point lead on the economy.

The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.4 percent. It interviewed likely voters in New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri, Florida, Virginia, Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada.

Edit - 21 day polling averages. Credit to Pillowpants of SA.

21 day polling average


31.50 VT
26.50 NY
26.00 Massachusetts
23.33 Illinois
17.50 California
17.00 Connecticut
17.00 Delaware
17.00 NJ
16.33 Maine
15.33 WA
14.75 Michigan
13.00 Iowa
12.33 Minnesota
12.17 OR
12.11 PA
10.82 WI
8.25 NM
7.75 VA
6.72 National
6.60 NH
5.70 Colorado
3.81 Florida
3.60 OH
3.38 Nevada
2.67 Missouri
1.73 NC
1.67 ND
1.29 Indiana
(1.67) Montana
(3.75) WV
(6.63) Georgia
(7.00) SD
(10.00) Mississippi
(12.50) Kansas
(12.50) SC
(13.00) Arkansas
(13.50) Kentucky
(13.50) TN
(13.67) TX
(14.96) Alaska
(16.00)
(22.00) Alabama
(22.00) Wy
(24.00) OK

[Charley]

I would have responded, how would the amendment stop a father/man from marrying his daughter/woman? Honestly, I just don't understand these people. One of the reasons I support Civil Unions is because I just don't think the majority of the country is ready for gay marriage. Civil Unions is a bridge that will still grant gay couples the legal rights they deserve. Hopefully, in a couple of decades the country will be ready to accept REALITY and let these people live their lives.

Another strong day of polling for Obama and his RCP lead looks like it will end at 7.5, half a point higher than yesterday. And it would have gone over 8 if it wasn't for that ridiculous IBD/TIPP poll which had Obama with only a 1 point lead. This same poll had McCain leading Obama in the 18-24 demo 74%-22%! How any organization could go to press with something so ridiculous is beyond me. Over at 538 Nate tore it apart. The statistical odds of that demo stat being correct? Wait for it.... wait for it.... the odds are 54,604,929,633-to-1. Embarrassing.

My views on gay marriage aren't relevant to the issue, I think. I'm more concerned with the government being in the marriage business at all. Since they're not going to abdicate their supervision of marriages and stick to civil unions, then I figure why not expand the government's scope to whichever consenting adults want it? Marriage is a cultural/religious thing and I think it's ludicrous for the government to have any say of it.



(22.00) Alabama

Damn it. Oh well, I'm still doing my part.

[Morgan Evanar]

Oh FL and OH please do the right thing this time pleaaaaaaaase.

[Yog]

Not only did Palin get $150K in clothes, but her makeup artist received $22,800 for the first two weeks of October alone. To put it in perspective, her makeup is 57 times as expensive as John Edwards $400 haircut.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/pains-makeup-stylist-fetches-highest-salary-in-2-week-period/


Who was the highest paid individual in Senator John McCain’s presidential campaign during the first half of October as it headed down the homestretch?

Not Randy Scheunemann, Mr. McCain’s chief foreign policy adviser; not Nicolle Wallace, his senior communications staff member. It was Amy Strozzi, who was identified by the Washington Post this week as Gov. Sarah Palin’s traveling makeup artist, according to a new filing with the Federal Election Commission on Thursday night.

Ms. Strozzi, who was nominated for an Emmy award for her makeup work on the television show “So You Think You Can Dance?”, was paid $22,800 for the first two weeks of October alone, according to the records. The campaign categorized Ms. Strozzi’s payment as “PERSONNEL SVC/EQUIPMENT.”

The payment on Oct. 10 made Ms. Strozzi the single highest-paid individual in the campaign for that two-week period. (There were more than two dozen companies that got larger payments than Ms. Strozzi). She easily beat out Mr. Scheunemann, who received $12,500 in the first half of October, and Ms. Wallace, who got $12,000.

In September, Ms. Strozzi was also paid $13,200 for “communications consulting.” But several individuals were paid more by the McCain campaign that month, including Mike DuHaime, the political director, who received $25,000 for “GOTV CONSULTING,” and Mark Salter, one of Mr. McCain’s senior advisers, who got $13,224 in salary.

There has been much scrutiny this week, of course, over the $150,000 Republican National Committee spent outfitting Ms. Palin in September at high-end department stores like Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus, as well as for makeup services.

The campaign finance reports filed on Thursday night, which showed the McCain campaign and the R.N.C. had about $84 million left in the bank on Oct. 15, did not immediately appear to show any similar payments in the first half of October.

Good thing she is a hockey mom, and not an elitist :lol

[Yog]

"Black Zorro" victim changes her story!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6076307.html


PITTSBURGH — Pittsburgh police say a McCain campaign volunteer who reported being held down by a black man who then cut the letter "B" in her face has changed her story.

Police also say bank surveillance footage doesn't show her at an ATM where she initially said she was attacked.

Police spokeswoman Diane Richard says investigators gave the 20-year-old woman a lie-detector test and are "looking at some inconsistencies" in her story.

The student, Ashley Todd, of College Station, Texas, initially said a black man robbed her at knifepoint near a bank Wednesday night and then cut her cheek after seeing a McCain sticker on her car.

Todd, who is white, now says she was knocked unconscious and doesn't remember being cut in the face. She now says she only discovered the wound later.

No arrests have been made.

Edit - update! (http://kdka.com/local/attack.McCain.Bloomfield.2.847628.html)


A Pittsburgh police commander told KDKA Investigator Marty Griffin that Ashley Todd confessed to making up the story & is facing charges
PITTSBURGH (KDKA) ― Police sources tell KDKA that a campaign worker has now confessed to making up a story that a mugger attacked her and cut the letter "B" in her face after seeing her McCain bumper sticker.

Ashley Todd, 20, of Texas, initially told police that she was robbed at an ATM in Bloomfield and that the suspect became enraged and started beating her after seeing her GOP sticker on her car.

Police investigating the alleged attack, however, began to notice some inconsistencies in her story and administered a polygraph test.

Authorities, however, declined to release the results of that test.

Investigators did say that they received photos from the ATM machine and "the photographs were verified as not being the victim making the transaction."

This afternoon, a Pittsburgh police commander told KDKA Investigator Marty Griffin that Todd confessed to making up the story.

The commander added that Todd will face charges; but police have not commented on what those charges will be.

According to police, investigators working on the interview process detected several inconsistencies in Todd's story that differed from statements made in the original police report.

Pittsburgh Police Public Information Officer Diane Richard released a statement earlier today, saying: "Because of the inconsistencies in her statements, Ms. Todd was asked to submit to a polygraph examination which she agreed to do."

No photos of Todd are being released by Pittsburgh Police at this time.

The investigation is continuing as officials determine what charges will be filed.
hahahahaha

[Morgan Evanar]

Nom nom nom nom the desperation is delicious.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I hope that girl is charged for that crap. She wasted their time plus caused so much trouble.

[Jedieb]

Drudge looks like a fool right now. The racial undertones of this story are just disgusting. Can you get anymore stereotypical than trying to torpedo your opponent with a "big scary black man attacks a white woman" attack. And make no mistake, it was Drudge who elevated this story to the point where BOTH campaigns had to comment on it. Who's going to take him seriously for the rest of this election? He cherry picks polls that have McCain close, even ones from Nickelodeon. And now he takes what should have been nothing more than a local news story and tries to make it national news. A lame version of Willie Horton is all this was. Gee, I wonder what the odds are that Drudge will have a Rev Wright scoop next week?

Another strong morning of polling for Obama. His RCP is 7.5 right now and could end up even higher. Every day that McCain fails to cut into that national lead is gravy for Obama. 538 had McCain's odds drop all the way down to 3.7% because of yesterday's numbers. It can only get worse.



My views on gay marriage aren't relevant to the issue, I think. I'm more concerned with the government being in the marriage business at all. Since they're not going to abdicate their supervision of marriages and stick to civil unions, then I figure why not expand the government's scope to whichever consenting adults want it? Marriage is a cultural/religious thing and I think it's ludicrous for the government to have any say of it.

I disagree because marriage is not only a 'cultural/religous' institution, but an economic one as well. Your marriage status effects everything from your taxes to your health care benefits. And when government tries to ban people the right to have their unions recognized as civil unions or marriages, they're basically denying them rights and privileges that other citizens have. The tax benefits that my wife and I have because of our kids and our marital status are plentiful. The whole family is insured under her healthcare plan and the cost would be astronomical if the government decided that we shouldn't be allowed to be "married."

[Yog]

Oh, this is brilliant.. :)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/03fcGelz8Hw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/03fcGelz8Hw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


.. also, Obama / McCain break dance contest..
http://www.break.com/index/unbelievable-mccain-vs-obama-dance-off.html

[Liam Jinn]

So I just got back from voting and I can't believe how many people were there. I voted in '04 on election day, and it took maybe 5 minutes. No lines or anything. Today it took about an hour, and the line was moving pretty fast. But it was loooong. Kinda shocked me.

[Yog]

So I just got back from voting and I can't believe how many people were there. I voted in '04 on election day, and it took maybe 5 minutes. No lines or anything. Today it took about an hour, and the line was moving pretty fast. But it was loooong. Kinda shocked me.
I think this year will have a record turnout.



I just got to share this.. :lol

Its been eight long years since the boys said wassup to each other. Even with the effects of a down economy and imminent change in the White House, the boys are still able to come together and stay...
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qq8Uc5BFogE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qq8Uc5BFogE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

That's awesome! I love it :D

[Rutabaga]

OMG, Yog, both those YouTube videos are awesome...the wassup one gets better with each viewing! :lol :lol :lol

[Rutabaga]

Nom nom nom nom the desperation is delicious.

I have to admit, your post made me laugh since you used one of my favorite goofy words. Nom nom!

I can has Obama! :eee

[Jedieb]

Well, Obama's got the Budweiser vote!

Obama's RCP average is up to 7.9, but McCain actually made up some ground in some states. He's now got a whopping 5.1% chance of winning the election over at 538!

[Charley]

I disagree because marriage is not only a 'cultural/religous' institution, but an economic one as well. Your marriage status effects everything from your taxes to your health care benefits. And when government tries to ban people the right to have their unions recognized as civil unions or marriages, they're basically denying them rights and privileges that other citizens have. The tax benefits that my wife and I have because of our kids and our marital status are plentiful. The whole family is insured under her healthcare plan and the cost would be astronomical if the government decided that we shouldn't be allowed to be "married."


This is an aspect of marriage that is entirely fabricated by the government, which is my point. The government could just blanket-issue these incentives under civil unions and then regular folks could have their Gay wedding, Christian wedding, Jewish wedding, Muslim wedding, Big Fat Greek Wedding, Trill symbiont bonding ceremony, Conjoined twin lovapalooza, whatever.



<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qq8Uc5BFogE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qq8Uc5BFogE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Hey cool that old Budweiser commercial finally hit the Indonesian madrassa circuit :lol

[Yog]

New Colorado poll is out LINK (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/oct/24/rockycbs4-poll-obama-has-12-point-lead-state/)


Sen. Barack Obama has surged to a commanding, double-digit lead in Colorado amid soaring anxiety about the country's direction and a massive shift of independent voters into the Democratic column, a new poll finds.

After weeks of devastating economic news, Obama now leads by 12 percentage points - 52 percent to 40 percent - in the latest Rocky Mountain News/CBS4 News poll.

http://www.mneh.org/pics/debatt/president-08/colorado.JPG

Colorado Pollster Average (http://www.pollster.com/polls/co/08-co-pres-ge-mvo.php)

We now see why the McCain campaign shifted focus to Pennsylvania. They actually need PA to win now. A near impossible task.


Ohio is also leaning more blue now. The last two polls show a +12 and +10 point lead:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/oh/ohio_mccain_vs_obama-400.html

[Jedieb]

Wow, those Ohio numbers are devastating. Without Ohio, McCain has NO shot whatsoever. Up until 2 days ago Ohio was basically a 2 point race. To have it jump to an RCP average of 6.1 this late in the race is devastating. Unless something dramatic happens in the next couple of days we're heading towards an electoral bloodbath in the mid 300 range. These Ohio numbers are going to force McCain to spend the last week bouncing back between Ohio and his last ditch effort at Penn. So what does he do about VA & NC? Not to mention all of the other Bush states he's fighting for his life. At some point the RNC is going to start begging him to give up and try to help stop the bleeding on the Congressional level, but I don't see that happening.

You're seeing a lot of infighting right now. Stories are getting leaked about problems within the McCain campaign. Staffers throwing knives at Palin, Palin supporters complaining about how she's been handled, Palin going off message and on her own. I really expected things to tighten up a bit and that we were headed towards a 4-6 point national election and an electoral college win in the low 300's. But if the election were held today it would be much worse for McCain. I don't expect an 8 point win in the general election and 350 electoral total, but we may end up with not only that, but 58-60 in the Senate and a huge margin in the House.

Right now Obama's RCP lead is right at 8.0. That's within 0.2 of his LARGEST lead of the election. Wow.

I'm watching the Brian Williams interview and man, are they laying it on thick about Biden's "tested" comments. I like Joe Biden, but man he can be a walking gaffe machine at times. Yes, the full quote isn't that bad and it's an old argument that Presidents often get tested early in their first term, but it's also red meat for the McCain campaign. But as usual, both McCain and Palin have to go overboard and describe it as being one of the most telling comments in political history (McCain) and the most important of the entire campaign (Palin). Yet, no matter what they say, NOTHING seems to work.

[Cat X]

I'm watching the Brian Williams interview and man, are they laying it on thick about Biden's "tested" comments. I like Joe Biden, but man he can be a walking gaffe machine at times. Yes, the full quote isn't that bad and it's an old argument that Presidents often get tested early in their first term, but it's also red meat for the McCain campaign. But as usual, both McCain and Palin have to go overboard and describe it as being one of the most telling comments in political history (McCain) and the most important of the entire campaign (Palin). Yet, no matter what they say, NOTHING seems to work.


Nom nom nom nom the desperation is delicious.
And even more funny when Obama doesnt play stunts when there is a real actual crisis but actually.... handles himself well?

Yeah, that would be a problem for McCain. Crisis? STUNT!!! More meaningless dribble from Republicans and more McCain / Palin proving their zero worth. BTW, that faked assault made it big news here as well as Joe McCain swearing at 911 when he called to complain about traffic.

[Rutabaga]

The Anchorage Daily News, Alaska's largest newspaper, has endorsed Barack Obama for president. :)

http://www.adn.com/opinion/view/story/567867.html

[Morgan Evanar]

Bump this thread each time there is no reason to vote for John McCain.

If you can give me an actual reason based on fact and logic to vote for McCain I will print your post out and eat it.

[Cat X]

Bump this thread each time there is no reason to vote for John McCain.

This thread would move faster than a Citroen at Monte Carlo if you did that.

[Rutabaga]

ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND @ Obama rally in Colorado, click the link for pictures:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/26/obama-draws-100000-at-den_n_137951.html

And a very talented 5th grader asks Joe Biden what the VP's job is...and Biden gets it RIGHT. Even if his answer is a little long-winded as usual ;).

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[Figrin D'an]

Obama has a new commercial out about his education plan. His campaign is doing a pretty good job of still pushing the positives of his candidacy.

I haven't seen a positive/non-attacking commercial from McCain in at least 3 weeks.


Just an observation.


Also:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html


This is pretty unbelievable. It's becoming pretty clear that Palin really doesn't care McCain's campaign or the outcome of it, and she's instead trying to rally the right wing of the Republican party push her as the front runner for the nomination in 2012. Finally, we see the politician in her that some people in Alaska were talking about.

This woman pretty much disgusts me.

[Rossos Atrapes]

"Senator Biden is now my homeboy."

HA! I love that. On another topic, check out this article (http://mises.org/story/3165) on why "laissez faire capitalism" didn't ruin the economy. It's interesting, and I'd like to hear some opinions on it. I have my own arguments against (and one or two in agreement with) some of the topics and opinions they push forward, one of which being their very definition of laissez faire capitalism.


Laissez-faire capitalism has a definite meaning, which is totally ignored, contradicted, and downright defiled by such statements as those quoted above. Laissez-faire capitalism is a politico-economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and in which the powers of the state are limited to the protection of the individual's rights against the initiation of physical force. This protection applies to the initiation of physical force by other private individuals, by foreign governments, and, most importantly, by the individual's own government. This last is accomplished by such means as a written constitution, a system of division of powers and checks and balances, an explicit bill of rights, and eternal vigilance on the part of a citizenry with the right to keep and bear arms. Under laissez-faire capitalism, the state consists essentially just of a police force, law courts, and a national defense establishment, which deter and combat those who initiate the use of physical force. And nothing more.

EDIT: Perhaps this should be in the Economics thread?:o

[Morgan Evanar]

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John Cleese says there is no reason to vote McCain/Palin.

[Yog]

Assassination plot targeting Obama disrupted! :whaa

http://www.whec.com/article/stories/S634769.shtml?cat=566


WASHINGTON (AP) - Federal agents have broken up a plot to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and shoot or decapitate 102 black people in a Tennessee murder spree, the ATF said Monday.

In court records unsealed Monday, federal agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target a predominantly African-American high school by two neo-Nazi skinheads. Agents said the skinheads did not identify the school by name.

Jim Cavanaugh, special agent in charge of the Nashville field office for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said the two men planned to shoot 88 black people and decapitate another 14. The numbers 88 and 14 are symbolic in the white supremacist community.

The men also sought to go on a national killing spree, with Obama as its final target, Cavanaugh told The Associated Press.

"They said that would be their last, final act - that they would attempt to kill Sen. Obama," Cavanaugh said. "They didn't believe they would be able to do it, but that they would get killed trying."

[Cat X]

Oh yay for racists! GOOOOd thinking there morons.

Now Palin can STFU and stop trolling crowds with her verbal spew.....

And also thinking of other human waste that comes from Alaska, Ted Stevens found guilty of corruption on ALL counts. Another 24 hours of news cycle wiped out for McCain, another 24 hours of no reason to vote for a Repubican

[Yog]

Here is apparently one of the skinheads who were plotting to assassinate Obama...

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/2743/33af647f932719b87ab28e2dr2.jpg

[Cat X]

TRIGGER DISCIPINE!!!

Yeah, not only a moron, an moron who will probably shoot himself.

[Yog]

On the topic of Ted Stevens..

Palin doesn't call on Stevens to step down (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/Palin_doesnt_call_on_Stevens_to_step_down.html?sho wall)


I'm confident Senator Stevens will do what's right for the people of Alaska.

[Cat X]

On the topic of Ted Stevens..

Palin doesn't call on Stevens to step down (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/Palin_doesnt_call_on_Stevens_to_step_down.html?sho wall)


I'm confident Senator Stevens will do what's right for the people of Alaska.

Thread bumped as per Morgan's request.

[Rutabaga]

Oh yay for racists! GOOOOd thinking there morons.

Now Palin can STFU and stop trolling crowds with her verbal spew.....

According to this post at Wonkette, someone yelled out the one word we'd all been expecting to hear at some point sooner or later. Palin stumbled over her next few words and then kept going, never acknowledging what was yelled.

Fair warning, this post uses a word that a lot of people (including me personally) find to be offensive.

http://wonkette.com/403862/sarah-palin-fan-has-cute-nickname-for-barack-obama

[Yog]

McCain behaving erratic again in foreign policy:
McCain's Irresponsible Syria Response (http://www.democracyarsenal.org/2008/10/mccains-irrespo.html)

Signs of McCain campaign imploding?
Dozens of McCain campaign workers walk off the job in protest (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/dozens_of_call_center_workers.php)

[Cat X]

According to this post at Wonkette, someone yelled out the one word we'd all been expecting to hear at some point sooner or later. Palin stumbled over her next few words and then kept going, never acknowledging what was yelled.

Fair warning, this post uses a word that a lot of people (including me personally) find to be offensive.

http://wonkette.com/403862/sarah-palin-fan-has-cute-nickname-for-barack-obama

And oyu just know if Pbama heard someone say something offensive he would stop and calm the crowd down and make it lcear it was NOT acceptible.

OKay, time for new thread? Anyone got a funny title to use?

[Morgan Evanar]

Thread is @ 500 posts :)