2008 Presidential Race!

[Jedi Master Carr]

An interesting idea being floated around now is that she's waiting for a big WV win next week and that she'll bow out right after that on a high note. I think that scenario will start to gain alot of traction, especially if her upcoming campaign events and commercials lose any negative attacks against Obama and focus mainly on her and any issues she wants to raise. With Oregon on the 20th, it would make next week a better story to go out on, but we'll see.

I'm also curious to see what happens at the end of the month with Florida and Michigan. They got themselves into this mess, but it would foolish for Dean and the Rules committee to not go ahead and seat them now. Just split the damn delegates and be done with it. Negotiate the ratio with the two camps, let Clinton have a majority in each of them, it won't make a difference.

I think that is what they should do too.

[Cat X]

Another delegate jumps from Clinton to Obama, another endorses, four more also before them today. So that a loss of 13 in the last 48 hours? Looks like speculation of the Supers making a move now is correct. What's the bet Hillary's super lead will be gone tomorrow?

[Jedieb]

Another delegate jumps from Clinton to Obama, another endorses, four more also before them today. So that a loss of 13 in the last 48 hours? Looks like speculation of the Supers making a move now is correct. What's the bet Hillary's super lead will be gone tomorrow?

To say that counting Superdelegates is an inexact science would be an understatement, but some outlets finally have her trailing Obama in Superdelegates. They ALL show that her once sizable lead of around 60 has virtually disappeated.



ABC
OBAMA 267
CLINTON 265

CBS
CLINTON 271
OBAMA 261

CNN
CLINTON 268
OBAMA 258

NBC
CLINTON 274
OBAMA 260

AP
CLINTON 271.5
OBAMA 266

New York Times
CLINTON 263
OBAMA 258

Politico
CLINTON 268.5
OBAMA 260

Washington Post (uses AP statistics)
CLINTON 271
OBAMA 256

[Turbogeek]

Another delegate jumps from Clinton to Obama, another endorses, four more also before them today. So that a loss of 13 in the last 48 hours? Looks like speculation of the Supers making a move now is correct. What's the bet Hillary's super lead will be gone tomorrow?

To say that counting Superdelegates is an inexact science would be an understatement, but some outlets finally have her trailing Obama in Superdelegates. They ALL show that her once sizable lead of around 60 has virtually disappeated.


http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/

Best and most accurate delegate count source

Edit : Even Demconwatch's total is jumping. Three more added in the last hour to now have HillaryisNOT44 at a lead of just 1.5

[Jedi Master Carr]

How can you get 1/2 a delegate?

[Turbogeek]

How can you get 1/2 a delegate?

Democrats International are allocated 1/2 seats

[Jedieb]

The half delegate has to do with delegates abroad. How they get counted I have no idea. And that 60 delegate lead she had was back in Feb. Before that her lead was actually over 100.

During elections you get surrogates to do a lot of dirty work for you. Today, Clinton kind of eliminated the middle man and played the race card herself. She made several statements along the lines of "Obama can't get whites to vote for him!" I just don't know what she's doing. You'd think she'd realize that if she's going to stay in the race she has to make sure to END her negative attacks on Obama. Talk yourself to death, make your negative attacks behind closed doors to Superdelegates, but damnit, you can't say things like this on the stump.

[Yog]

^^ especially if she is going to have any chance at all for a VP spot.

[Turbogeek]

^^ especially if she is going to have any chance at all for a VP spot.

As much as the MSM fellate about a "dream ticket" it will not happen. The only people who think it's a dream ticket are Republicans and I think Obama knows this very well.

[Yog]

As much as the MSM fellate about a "dream ticket" it will not happen. The only people who think it's a dream ticket are Republicans and I think Obama knows this very well.

Unfortunately, it's more than just the MSM. It's the democratic voters, the delegates and the party officials. Once Clinton concedes, there will be substantial pressure on Obama to include the strongest runner up in his presidential bid. I just hope Obama does not seriously consider that, because it's more of a poison pill than a dream ticket.


"I will say that she has shown herself to be an extraordinary candidate and an extraordinary public servant,” Obama said. “She is hard working, she is tough, she is very smart and so I think she would be on anyone's list.”

[Turbogeek]

As much as the MSM fellate about a "dream ticket" it will not happen. The only people who think it's a dream ticket are Republicans and I think Obama knows this very well.

Unfortunately, it's more than just the MSM. It's the democratic voters, the delegates and the party officials. Once Clinton concedes, there will be substantial pressure on Obama to include the strongest runner up in his presidential bid. I just hope Obama does not seriously consider that, because it's more of a poison pill than a dream ticket.


"I will say that she has shown herself to be an extraordinary candidate and an extraordinary public servant,” Obama said. “She is hard working, she is tough, she is very smart and so I think she would be on anyone's list.”

Obama is a very clever man. He is saying that to make sure he does not put Clinton die hards offside. You can take it as read that there is no way he or the DNC will have Clinton on a joint ticket.

The party does not like her. The only reason she has gotten this far is her name and and the memory of the last Democrat President who was a hero to his party - a name that has been reduced to not much due to their own incompetence. The Dems dont want this dream ticket and nor does anyone apart from the Republicans and a select few morons in the media. There will not be pressure especially considering that he has beaten her - she and her supporters are not in a position to demand anything.

It is also a fact that the loudmouth anti Obama supporters in the Dems are not really democrats at all. hillaryis44.org is run by a Perot supporter and half the morons there are Repub shills. MyDD is a haven for the same. They are no loss, Obama can offend them all he wants. And frankly no real democrat will even contemplate voting for McSame.

The waves of new Dems they have been signing up more than offset any poor little Hilldog supporters that get mortified by Obama's victory. Believe it, Clinton does not have the leverage to get herself on the ticket and no one else is going to stump for her on that.

[Jedi Master Carr]

As much as the MSM fellate about a "dream ticket" it will not happen. The only people who think it's a dream ticket are Republicans and I think Obama knows this very well.

Unfortunately, it's more than just the MSM. It's the democratic voters, the delegates and the party officials. Once Clinton concedes, there will be substantial pressure on Obama to include the strongest runner up in his presidential bid. I just hope Obama does not seriously consider that, because it's more of a poison pill than a dream ticket.


"I will say that she has shown herself to be an extraordinary candidate and an extraordinary public servant,” Obama said. “She is hard working, she is tough, she is very smart and so I think she would be on anyone's list.”

Obama is a very clever man. He is saying that to make sure he does not put Clinton die hards offside. You can take it as read that there is no way he or the DNC will have Clinton on a joint ticket.

The party does not like her. The only reason she has gotten this far is her name and and the memory of the last Democrat President who was a hero to his party - a name that has been reduced to not much due to their own incompetence. The Dems dont want this dream ticket and nor does anyone apart from the Republicans and a select few morons in the media. There will not be pressure especially considering that he has beaten her - she and her supporters are not in a position to demand anything.

It is also a fact that the loudmouth anti Obama supporters in the Dems are not really democrats at all. hillaryis44.org is run by a Perot supporter and half the morons there are Repub shills. MyDD is a haven for the same. They are no loss, Obama can offend them all he wants. And frankly no real democrat will even contemplate voting for McSame.

The waves of new Dems they have been signing up more than offset any poor little Hilldog supporters that get mortified by Obama's victory. Believe it, Clinton does not have the leverage to get herself on the ticket and no one else is going to stump for her on that.

I agree it be stupid to pick her as VP. I would either consider Edwards (who can get some of this poorer white people) or a governor like Rendell from Pennslyvannia or Richardson from New Mexico. Hillary doesn't really add anything to the ticket and besides I don't think she wants it. She is going to have to end this eventually for the good of the Party, but if she keeps this up in June, I think Al Gore and the Party leaders will turn out to shut her up.

[Turbogeek]

As much as the MSM fellate about a "dream ticket" it will not happen. The only people who think it's a dream ticket are Republicans and I think Obama knows this very well.

Unfortunately, it's more than just the MSM. It's the democratic voters, the delegates and the party officials. Once Clinton concedes, there will be substantial pressure on Obama to include the strongest runner up in his presidential bid. I just hope Obama does not seriously consider that, because it's more of a poison pill than a dream ticket.


"I will say that she has shown herself to be an extraordinary candidate and an extraordinary public servant,” Obama said. “She is hard working, she is tough, she is very smart and so I think she would be on anyone's list.”

Obama is a very clever man. He is saying that to make sure he does not put Clinton die hards offside. You can take it as read that there is no way he or the DNC will have Clinton on a joint ticket.

The party does not like her. The only reason she has gotten this far is her name and and the memory of the last Democrat President who was a hero to his party - a name that has been reduced to not much due to their own incompetence. The Dems dont want this dream ticket and nor does anyone apart from the Republicans and a select few morons in the media. There will not be pressure especially considering that he has beaten her - she and her supporters are not in a position to demand anything.

It is also a fact that the loudmouth anti Obama supporters in the Dems are not really democrats at all. hillaryis44.org is run by a Perot supporter and half the morons there are Repub shills. MyDD is a haven for the same. They are no loss, Obama can offend them all he wants. And frankly no real democrat will even contemplate voting for McSame.

The waves of new Dems they have been signing up more than offset any poor little Hilldog supporters that get mortified by Obama's victory. Believe it, Clinton does not have the leverage to get herself on the ticket and no one else is going to stump for her on that.

I agree it be stupid to pick her as VP. I would either consider Edwards (who can get some of this poorer white people) or a governor like Rendell from Pennslyvannia or Richardson from New Mexico. Hillary doesn't really add anything to the ticket and besides I don't think she wants it. She is going to have to end this eventually for the good of the Party, but if she keeps this up in June, I think Al Gore and the Party leaders will turn out to shut her up.

Considering Obama has now officially taken over the Super delegate lead as of today according to Demconwatch, I think that's a pretty good signal the party is doing exactly that now :) Add another 9 Pelosi club supers who have said they will endorse the pledged delegate leader and he now leads supers by 12.

Edwards is supposed to be endorsing on Tuesday and he said "I'll endose whom I voted for in NC". It'll be Obama so you can count his delegates in Obama's total after that. I dont think Edwards will be tapped for VP, but Attorney General could well be on. Or there's likely to be two SCOTUS spots to be appointed in the next 4 years......

[Morgan Evanar]

Edwards would be a good choice for AG and I hope Obama does it.

[Jack Brocius]

I'd put Edwards in the chair for Department of Mills if it were up to me.


lol

[Jedieb]

It really is amazing how badly HC has managed this campaign. When chief strategist like Mark Penn run races without realizing exactly how Superdelegates work you have to scratch your head. She had every advantage, yet she still blew it. Despite having been through the process TWICE before, many of her team acted as if they were running a general election campaign and not a Democratic primary. She got killed in caucuses, mismanaged her money, her field teams were inadequate, you could go on and on. Yet despite all this, she's still going to rack up significant delegate totals and over 45% of the votes cast.

I really believe the VP nomination is hers if she wants it. Yes, she's a polarizing figure, but the negative emotions she raises (just look at this thread) are often matched by support that's just as passionate. As much as someone might hate her, some middle aged female Boomer loves her and identifies with her. Even if he doesn't select her as VP, he'll need her on the stump. Maybe time will heal a lot of these primary wounds, and Hillary supporters will come back in the fold in November. Maybe he can win it in November with minimal support from Hillary. I still think he needs the support of many of the Democrats that Hillary scores with and it would be foolish for him to ignore them. Time will tell.

I'd love to see Richardson on the ticket. I can't see Edwards going for it again and he wasn't really all that effective in 04.

[Jack Brocius]

I'd love to see Richardson on the ticket.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. This is my dream lineup. He's a foreign policy slugger and has a long resume. That, and he's historically closely aligned with the Clintons so it would be a good way to help mend the fence without actually having that harpy in the white house again.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It really is amazing how badly HC has managed this campaign. When chief strategist like Mark Penn run races without realizing exactly how Superdelegates work you have to scratch your head. She had every advantage, yet she still blew it. Despite having been through the process TWICE before, many of her team acted as if they were running a general election campaign and not a Democratic primary. She got killed in caucuses, mismanaged her money, her field teams were inadequate, you could go on and on. Yet despite all this, she's still going to rack up significant delegate totals and over 45% of the votes cast.

I really believe the VP nomination is hers if she wants it. Yes, she's a polarizing figure, but the negative emotions she raises (just look at this thread) are often matched by support that's just as passionate. As much as someone might hate her, some middle aged female Boomer loves her and identifies with her. Even if he doesn't select her as VP, he'll need her on the stump. Maybe time will heal a lot of these primary wounds, and Hillary supporters will come back in the fold in November. Maybe he can win it in November with minimal support from Hillary. I still think he needs the support of many of the Democrats that Hillary scores with and it would be foolish for him to ignore them. Time will tell.

I'd love to see Richardson on the ticket. I can't see Edwards going for it again and he wasn't really all that effective in 04.

That is probably why Edwards won't be the VP because of what happened last time. I think he should get some kind of cabinet position, AG sounds good. I would go with Richhardson or another governor.

[Yog]

I think this was supposed to be satire, but ended up hitting the nail on how Clinton has been conducting this campaign.. :lol
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/play.shtml?mea=250052

[Jedieb]

Big Superdelegate weekend for Obama and he just picked up another 2 this morning. It looks like he could get a few more by the end of the day. He's now leading her by 7 in some SD counts. After Hillary's expected big win tomorrow you can bet she'll be on the phone with West Virginia Superdelegates begging them to officially back her to try to stem the tide of SD defections and losses. If you see a lot of those undecided WV Superdelegates hold back their endorsements until AFTER June 3rd then you know the party is trying to nail her coffin shut as quickly as possible.

EDIT
Obama needs about 157 to reach 2025
Clinton needs about 327

[Jedieb]

Blink and you miss something, Obama just picked up a SD from Hawaii. The HC bleeding continues.

[Yog]

Obama is in clear SD lead now.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think picking Governor Kathleen Sebelius as vice president could really help Obama in the general election. White woman, Kansas governor with southern accent, tons of experience in public office and really really popular. I think she could pull 95% of the disappointed Clinton voters, a lot of the blue collar voters, and women (even some moderates and republicans!). She could turn swing states like Ohio and Indiana probably get an upset win in Kansas, and several of those states where Obama has been struggling. But most importantly, she looks like she is qualified for the position based on experience. She endorsed Obama way back in end of january. I think she is far more likeable on TV than Hillary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Sebelius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nHp90Z2NJk

If you're looking for a dream ticket, look no further. An afro american AND a woman, AND you don't have to deal with the Clinton baggage. In comparison, McCain's candidacy will look old in more than one way.

[Jedieb]

If you listened to her speech tonight it's pretty clear that she's going to see this through to June 3rd. I can only hope that she keeps it as clean as possible. Tonight was her last big hurrah. Next week they'll split the states, but she'll probably pick up a delegate or two because she'll probably win Kentucky by a bigger margin than Obama will win Oregon. But that really doesn't matter now. What matters is what Superdelegates do in the next few weeks. They're the only ones who can keep this from going to the convention. After the DNC Rules committee decides what to do with Florida and Michigan at the end of this month, it'll still be the up to SD's. I'm just crossing my fingers that within the first week of June they end this.

[Jedieb]

Obama picked up a couple more SD's this morning, one of them from abroad, another from Michigan. So it's either a gain of 1.5 or 2.5 depending on how you count.

I really wish the Rules committee meeting would hurry up and get here. Once they make their ruling we'll finally get a definitive number of SD's to clinch. I just wonder how HC will react once Obama hits that number. Some SD's have switched back and forth already. Will she concede or still fight on hoping she can turn SD's back to her before the convention? Any Superdelegate that doesn't declare their vote within a few days after the last primary should be punched in the nads.

[Yog]

Obama finally gets endorsement of John Edwards:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/14/edwards.obama/index.html

[Cat X]

Obama finally gets endorsement of John Edwards:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/14/edwards.obama/index.html

And yet again, the Obama campaign snookers Clinton's by wiping out any good news from her primary win yesterday. And best yet, all his delegates will now basically become his.

Obama doesn't even to win Oregon next week now to claim the nomination. And can even give Clinton FL and MI as is and still wins by any metric.

[Cat X]

Oh FFS, double post

[Jedi Master Carr]

Edwards Endorsement gives him a big boost. I think Edwards will be in Obama's Cabinet. I see him as either Attorney General or maybe Secretary of Commerce or something like that.

[Yog]

John Edwards endorsement speech gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. :)
Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSkRZz5Gcr0) - Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz6eQZ2YWTc)

Edit, btw, those confused about the jet ski part, watch this clip:
http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/videos.jhtml?videoId=166019

[Jedieb]

Edwards' could have had more of an impact earlier in the race, but I think it was smart to have him declare himself the day after WV. It pretty much blunted the good news HC was getting from her 40+point win. The Tuesday race most people should be talking about was the Special election in Mississippi. The RNC is sweating bullets right now. This November could be a disaster for them.

[Turbogeek]

Edwards said some time ago he would endorse when he thought the nomination fight was over. So.... now you know why he endorsed now. He thought it's over.

The important thing is that his delegates that he won are pretty much free and he's asked them to go to Obama. That means the ones he got in FL and MI will be for Obama and thence if FL and MI ever count, the damage is far less from Clinton. Like about 30 delegates less. And 7 of his remaining 19 have delcared for Obama.

127 delegates to go! Hopefully Obama bags all of them this week

Edit : Becuase why double post?

The Democrats have found they have testicles!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/15/122620/929/436/516202

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/15/131149/912/389/516249

And explaining so that even Bush die hards can understand...

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/05/15/the-republican-obama-wants-to-run-against.aspx

GW Bush - uniting the Democrat party. Awesome!

[Yog]

Wow, that statement by Bush was like pouring gasoline over the fire.

Here is Senator Biden's reaction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZti59Y2l1M

[Turbogeek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm_NSN3vKzU

Obama's response. This guy wont be allowing the Republicans to get away with anything!

[Turbogeek]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/18/184313/500/691/517973

You got to be kidding me.

[Cat X]

http://s5.largeimagehost.com/displayimage.php?img=obama-small.jpg&loc=UshshrU&skey=my18

More Portland rally pictures. What the hell would be the crowds when he campaigns again in big cities....?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Are you attempting to say that Portland isn't a big city? O_o

I wish these delegates would stop holding up traffic in our city. :shakefist The hubby had to wait 45 minutes for someone to drive through at one point today - he thinks it was Obama on his way to the Waterfront, but Chelsea and Bill Clinton are wandering around this area as well.

[Cat X]

Are you attempting to say that Portland isn't a big city? O_o


Compared to NY / LA.... yes, it's small. Hell, it's barely bigger than Perth.

[Turbogeek]

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/obama_responds_to_mccain_stron.php

Obama gives McCain a real smackdown. This election going to be so much fun to watch

[Jedi Master Carr]

Are you attempting to say that Portland isn't a big city? O_o


Compared to NY / LA.... yes, it's small. Hell, it's barely bigger than Perth.

Well on that argument there wouldn't be too many big cities. I know Portland is huge compared to where I live. The Biggest city Portland's size near me is Atlanta.

[Turbogeek]

Are you attempting to say that Portland isn't a big city? O_o


Compared to NY / LA.... yes, it's small. Hell, it's barely bigger than Perth.

Well on that argument there wouldn't be too many big cities. I know Portland is huge compared to where I live. The Biggest city Portland's size near me is Atlanta.

Portland would be swallowed by Sydney whole and then some - but we're under no illusion on Sydney's relative size (apart from physical size. The Greater Sydney is massive but only has 6 million due to satellite suburbanisation with huge spaces in between, I live 85 km from Sydney Metro and that's the western fringe) - we barely scrape into "big" status. You have cities that swallow Australia's population whole.

It's small.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

A small city to you is perfectly able to be a large city to others.

But let's not go out on some nitpicking tangent, please. Stick to the topic at hand.

[Jedieb]

Obama keeps closing in on 2025, he's just 46 away after 2 more SD's came in overnite.

Meanwhile, Bill & Hillary just keep taking turns saying something stupid. Hillary brings up RFK's assasination as a reason for her to stay in the race and then Bill says there's a conspiracy to deny her the nomination. And this is on top of the constant whining of gender discrimination.

That 2025 is likely to change this weekend when the DNC rules committee meets to settle Michigan and Florida. I expect each state will get half its delegates seated, and the delegates will get divided between Hillary and Obama. She'll pick up a few, but it won't make any difference.

The VP Sweepstakes
Some days I think Hillary as VP is necessary, others I think it's a train wreck. Could you imagine what a White House with Bill & Hillary in the background would be like for Obama?

[Turbogeek]

You really still think Obama is even going to consider Hillary for VP after the RFK comment? The answer is not a hope in hell - he doesn't need her diehard's anymore. He doesn't need her support crew. The polls are showing Obama opening gaps between him and McCain the more he ignores Clinton and gets into GE mode. If she doesnt shut up now, she'll be lucky to keep her senate seat. I doubt the party will press the issue either now, they are gettign a good look at what Obama is settign up in relation to a fund raising organisation and a setup for a full 50 state campaign. They also see how he's got no fear hitting the Republicans hard. Who needs Clinton when you got that?

From what i've seen, John Edwards is the VP who gets the best polling. I doubt he wants it, but he's a good fit. And he appeals to the racist retards who wont vote for Obama because he's black or elite or secret muslim (honesty, who believes THAT after the bloody Wright flap?) other nonsense. So he would actually bring in votes. He'll most likely be the AG.

Looking forward to the 31st when Clintons last remaining hope is gone and Obama no longer has to worry about her.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't think Hillary will be the VP mainly because she has too many negatives to get it. I would like Edwards since I am a big fan of him. Other people to consider
Bill Richardson, should swing New Mexico to Obama and bring Hispanics plus has Foreign Affairs experience. Could pick another governor, Ed Rendell from PA, Strickland from ohio, or the female governor from Kansas. There is also Biden, Wes Clark or Jim Webb all have foreign affairs experience as well. One wild card to consider is Chuck Hagell since he is retiring could go to the democratics since he is mad at the Republican Party.

[Jedieb]

You really still think Obama is even going to consider Hillary for VP after the RFK comment? The answer is not a hope in hell - he doesn't need her diehard's anymore. He doesn't need her support crew. The polls are showing Obama opening gaps between him and McCain the more he ignores Clinton and gets into GE mode. If she doesnt shut up now, she'll be lucky to keep her senate seat. I doubt the party will press the issue either now, they are gettign a good look at what Obama is settign up in relation to a fund raising organisation and a setup for a full 50 state campaign. They also see how he's got no fear hitting the Republicans hard. Who needs Clinton when you got that?

From what i've seen, John Edwards is the VP who gets the best polling. I doubt he wants it, but he's a good fit. And he appeals to the racist retards who wont vote for Obama because he's black or elite or secret muslim (honesty, who believes THAT after the bloody Wright flap?) other nonsense. So he would actually bring in votes. He'll most likely be the AG.

Looking forward to the 31st when Clintons last remaining hope is gone and Obama no longer has to worry about her.

If I were him I wouldn't want her on the ticket, but she's on the short list, that's a given. They're going to end up practically splitting the popular vote in these primaries. If it hadn't of been for the perculiar intricasies of how the Dems awarded delegates she could have won the nomination outright. There were states that Obama won by around 10,000 votes that gave him bigger delegate gains than states Hillary won by 100,000. It's not an excuse, just a fact. The reason it's not a valid excuse for Clinton is because she SHOULD have anticipated the importance of those caucus states. She and Bill had more experience with this process than Obama but they're the ones who acted as if they were first time presidential candidates.

She had every advantage going for her but she blew it. When Bill isn't babbling about conspiracies he's talking about her as the VP. You have to wonder how bad she wants that VP spot. If she really wants it she can put alot of pressure on Obama. Whether he caves is up to him. Either way, she HAS to campaign for him this fall. If she doesn't I don't see how the party will forgive her 4 years from now.

I also think it's telling what's been happening with the Superdelegates since Indiana and N.C. That's when most of the media called this race. Since then she's lost the SD race on almost a daily basis. NOTHING she's said has changed the rate she's been losing SD's. She should be winning them at a 4 to 1 clip to even have a snowball's chance. Every sign is pointing to this thing being over but her, Bill, and McCullife keep going and going and going... I honestly don't know what she still hopes to accomplish. She could have seriously improved her VP chances by bowing out after WV. The RFK comment actually shows just where her mind is at times. Part of her really is wishing for pictures of Obama with a crack pipe and some hookers or a white supremist with a high powered rifle. It's kind of sick.

[Jedieb]

Oh, and how sweet is the McClellen bombshell? Not that I really admire this guy. If he'd resigned in the middle of the whole CIA leak mess I'd have been impressed. This is yet another former Bushie whose left that administration with many of the same criticisms. I'm telling you, this is going to go down as one of the worst... administrations... EVER.

[Park Kraken]

Well, it's like I said earlier, I would rather see Obama become president than HC, but I would still rather see McCain elected of all the three current contestants.


Portland would be swallowed by Sydney whole and then some - but we're under no illusion on Sydney's relative size (apart from physical size. The Greater Sydney is massive but only has 6 million due to satellite suburbanisation with huge spaces in between, I live 85 km from Sydney Metro and that's the western fringe) - we barely scrape into "big" status. You have cities that swallow Australia's population whole.

It's small.

For actual city population, Sydney only has about 170K people. There are four cities in my state that are bigger in city population. However, only Miami has a greater metro population than Sydney.

However, as for geographical size, the only city that could compare to Sydney -


The Sydney Statistical Division, used for census data, is the unofficial metropolitan area[17] and covers 12,145 km² (4,689 sq mi).[18] This area includes the Central Coast and Blue Mountains as well as broad swathes of national park and other unurbanised land.


According to the United States Census Bureau, the city has a total area of 874.3 square miles (2,264.5 km²), making Jacksonville the largest city in land area in the contiguous United States; of this, 757.7 square miles (1,962.4 km²; 86.66%) is land and 116.7 square miles (302.1 km²; 13.34%) is water.

[Jedieb]

It looks like Pelosi and company are trying to get Superdelegates to end this once and for all next week. Wed. should see a flood of Superdelegates and by the end of the week it should be over. When HC finally gets around to conceding is anyone's guess. Obama's magic number will change after Saturday, right now it's 43.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Oh, and how sweet is the McClellen bombshell? Not that I really admire this guy. If he'd resigned in the middle of the whole CIA leak mess I'd have been impressed. This is yet another former Bushie whose left that administration with many of the same criticisms. I'm telling you, this is going to go down as one of the worst... administrations... EVER.

I think it will rank up their with the current three worst administrations of Nixon, Harding and Grant. The funny thing is all four were so corrupt, had its share of scandals and yet they all got a second term (I am counting Coolidge's relection as a second term for Harding). Of course Watergate killed the Republicans in 76. I guess the other administration's scandals never got the press to doom them.

[Jedieb]

Obama picked won 4-1 SD's yesterday, which is pretty much the exact ratio that Hillary needs to be winning right now. Strangely, I haven't seen any SD's commit today. A few usually come out before noon. I think we'll see a bunch coming out over the weekend once the Rules committee finishes it's Fla/Michigan meeting on Saturday.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Obama picked won 4-1 SD's yesterday, which is pretty much the exact ratio that Hillary needs to be winning right now. Strangely, I haven't seen any SD's commit today. A few usually come out before noon. I think we'll see a bunch coming out over the weekend once the Rules committee finishes it's Fla/Michigan meeting on Saturday.

I think some are waiting for that to be over and the rest for June 3. I think it will be over on June 4th.

[Jedieb]

Obama has just released a statement saying he's leaving his church. I guess that Catholic priest was the final straw. It's no accident he's announced this over the weekend and right in the middle of Rules committee meeting. I wonder how this will play out.

[Jedieb]

Florida and Michigan have been settled, it's finally OVER. Florida and Michigan have been fully seated with 1/2 votes. Basically, Obama's camp got the result they wanted. Clinton supporters basically got outvoted by Obama supporters and the state parties of Michigan and Florida. It's OVER. Clinton supporters are literally screaming the halls because it's obvious they've been slapped down. This is a turning of the guard. It's not the Clinton's party anymore. I think a lot of this screaming is just the heat of the moment. As time goes on many of these Clinton supporters will cool down, but make no mistake, she can fire them up and burn the party down if she wants. The big question is, what does she want?

2118 is the new number.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Florida and Michigan have been settled, it's finally OVER. Florida and Michigan have been fully seated with 1/2 votes. Basically, Obama's camp got the result they wanted. Clinton supporters basically got outvoted by Obama supporters and the state parties of Michigan and Florida. It's OVER. Clinton supporters are literally screaming the halls because it's obvious they've been slapped down. This is a turning of the guard. It's not the Clinton's party anymore. I think a lot of this screaming is just the heat of the moment. As time goes on many of these Clinton supporters will cool down, but make no mistake, she can fire them up and burn the party down if she wants. The big question is, what does she want?

2118 is the new number.

That Ickles is a jerk, I couldn't stand his language he used it was so unprofessional. He sounds like some country bumkin who just came into town. He even looked like it too. I think the leaders of the Party will talk to her after to June 3rd to convince her to coincided.

[Turbogeek]

Florida and Michigan have been settled, it's finally OVER. Florida and Michigan have been fully seated with 1/2 votes. Basically, Obama's camp got the result they wanted. Clinton supporters basically got outvoted by Obama supporters and the state parties of Michigan and Florida. It's OVER. Clinton supporters are literally screaming the halls because it's obvious they've been slapped down. This is a turning of the guard. It's not the Clinton's party anymore. I think a lot of this screaming is just the heat of the moment. As time goes on many of these Clinton supporters will cool down, but make no mistake, she can fire them up and burn the party down if she wants. The big question is, what does she want?

2118 is the new number.

The real question is - does she HAVE enough supporters to burn the party down? I dont think so, not anymore. The so called big protest didnt get more than a few hundred, while Obama is going to be speaking at a 20,000 seat stadium on Tuesday that will no doubt be filled to the rafters.

Your seeing the Hillaryis44 catladies wh are her only vocal supporters anymore. They form such a tiny minority that Obama can afford to completely ignore them. And the fact is, if the big states voted again now, they have had a far better look at Obama and there would be much greater support in them. The party is already uniting behind him, the Clinton holdouts will be simply sidelined.


I think the leaders of the Party will talk to her after to June 3rd to convince her to coincided.

They wont need to. June 3rd, there's no more primaries, the supers will move. Even if she tried to take it to the convention, the party are clearly swinging in behind Obama and making whatever she does or says irrelavent. Her campaign bank balance also will have a lot to say about it, it's not just broke but in debt by 20 million. There are no undecided supers, they are undeclared - most have hinted they will vote Obama.

The big reason why this is true is that the Democrats can sense they have a real winner on their hands. The coattails effect could be big. He's firing the party up, exciting the voting base, attackign the Republicans head on with gusto. He'll swing the party behind him and shape it as he wants, which it appears is already well and truly happening.

[Yog]

Clinton fanatics chanting and booing during the convention:

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVvtgUrkgH0) - Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lpg6TRW9qc)


What's your name?

Why?! Are you the FBI, the CIA?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s

:lol

[Jedieb]

Ickes is on Meet the Press right now and he's being equal parts defiant and delusional. An example, when asked if Clinton would accept a spot on the ticket as VP; "We EXPECT to be the nominee." It's kind of sad. After these last 3 primaries Hillary is going to have win over 190 SD's out of just over 200. And even with Russert giving Ickes those numbers he still said they expected to win. Holy crap, this is just ridiculous.


Your seeing the Hillaryis44 catladies wh are her only vocal supporters anymore. They form such a tiny minority that Obama can afford to completely ignore them. And the fact is, if the big states voted again now, they have had a far better look at Obama and there would be much greater support in them. The party is already uniting behind him, the Clinton holdouts will be simply sidelined.
When Hillary supporters go on about sexism in this election, this is an example of what they're talking about. Labeling them catladies and discounting them as a small slice of the electorate is just plain wrong. Some of HC's strongest support comes from white women over the age of 55. There's nothing small about that piece of the electorate. A lot of these women feel like she's gotten short changed and that sexism had a lot to do with it. As a result, Obama's numbers have fallen sharply with white women of all ages. I don't believe sexism had any significant effect on the race, I just think she got beat in a race she had every advantage. I think most of these women will come back to Obama and Hillary could help him get them back. But make no mistake, he NEEDS this part of the electorate. If they stay home of worse, cast their vote for McCain, he's not going to win. It's part of the base that he needs, just like McCain needs those evangelicals to come out for him. How parts of these bases come out could determine the election in the fall.

[Jedieb]

Voting should end in Puerto Rico in about an hour. Turnout is nowhere near what Cllinton was counting on. It looks like she's going to lose her popular vote argument. We'll know for sure after today.

[Colonel Karrnage]

Voting should end in Puerto Rico in about an hour. Turnout is nowhere near what Cllinton was counting on. It looks like she's going to lose her popular vote argument. We'll know for sure after today.

Either way its skewing heavily in her favor.

[Turbogeek]

When Hillary supporters go on about sexism in this election, this is an example of what they're talking about. Labeling them catladies and discounting them as a small slice of the electorate is just plain wrong.

I call it as it is - these loud mouth idiots that I was talking about are the hillaryis44 catladies. There is NO SEXISM in calling idiots.... well.... idiots. The resonable supporters (which are the overwhelming majority of Hillary supporters) will vote Democract.

The only sexism has been in the deluded minds of these fools and I'm not sure they are democrats to begin with. The guy who started hillaryis44 certainly isnt. And calling the idiots who protested and caused a ruckus yesterday idiots is exactly what they should be called. They are an embarrassment and are only a small minority who can be safely ignored. The real Democrats who supported Hillary will be voting Democrat come November and they also realise that charges of sexism are complete garbage.

[Jedieb]

When Hillary supporters go on about sexism in this election, this is an example of what they're talking about. Labeling them catladies and discounting them as a small slice of the electorate is just plain wrong.

I call it as it is - these loud mouth idiots that I was talking about are the hillaryis44 catladies. There is NO SEXISM in calling idiots.... well.... idiots. The resonable supporters (which are the overwhelming majority of Hillary supporters) will vote Democract.

The only sexism has been in the deluded minds of these fools and I'm not sure they are democrats to begin with. The guy who started hillaryis44 certainly isnt. And calling the idiots who protested and caused a ruckus yesterday idiots is exactly what they should be called. They are an embarrassment and are only a small minority who can be safely ignored. The real Democrats who supported Hillary will be voting Democrat come November and they also realise that charges of sexism are complete garbage.

I don't think they'd take kindly to being called 'catladies,' that's the word that would probably set more than a few of them off. I think they acted like idiots as well, but they're not the only women that feel that Hillary has gotten a raw deal. The fact is, Hillary has gotten a significant amount of support in these primaries. I think her popular vote argument is ridiculous, but no matter what metric you use, the fact is these two candidates have basically SPLIT the vote. They're both going to end up with over 17 million votes. They'll end up being less than a percentage point apart. That amount can't be discounted or ignored. Her support is real and legitimate and it's coming from "real" democrats.

I still can't get over what an idiot Ickes was on Saturday. He and McCullife are giving sore losers a bad name. You can see which of her supporters are accepting this loss gracefully and which ones are hell bent on going down kicking and screaming. I just wonder which ones she's listening to. The Obama supporters on the Rules Comittee should have gone out of their way to give her enough Michigan delegates to shut Ickes up. Unfortunately, they thought a sensible compromise would actually work. On Saturday there were enough votes for a 50/50 Michigan split to pass, but the Obama supporters wisely passed on that option and went for the 69/59 delegate split. But that's not enough for Ickes. Some people in that room should have realized he was about to go off and just gone ahead and made it something like 75/54, JUST TO SHUT HIM THE HELL UP! At the end of the day, Ickes put on that show over 2 votes. I repeat, 2 VOTES! With Michigan being seated at 1/2 strength, that's what those 4 delegates Ickes was crying about amount to, 2 friggin' delegates. She's going to lose by more than 100 and this sore loser is cursing and threatening to take it to Credentials Committee. Way to give Republicans a sound bite that will have them rolling in sunshine and puppies. Unbelievable.

[Jedi Master Carr]

When Hillary supporters go on about sexism in this election, this is an example of what they're talking about. Labeling them catladies and discounting them as a small slice of the electorate is just plain wrong.

I call it as it is - these loud mouth idiots that I was talking about are the hillaryis44 catladies. There is NO SEXISM in calling idiots.... well.... idiots. The resonable supporters (which are the overwhelming majority of Hillary supporters) will vote Democract.

The only sexism has been in the deluded minds of these fools and I'm not sure they are democrats to begin with. The guy who started hillaryis44 certainly isnt. And calling the idiots who protested and caused a ruckus yesterday idiots is exactly what they should be called. They are an embarrassment and are only a small minority who can be safely ignored. The real Democrats who supported Hillary will be voting Democrat come November and they also realise that charges of sexism are complete garbage.

I don't think they'd take kindly to being called 'catladies,' that's the word that would probably set more than a few of them off. I think they acted like idiots as well, but they're not the only women that feel that Hillary has gotten a raw deal. The fact is, Hillary has gotten a significant amount of support in these primaries. I think her popular vote argument is ridiculous, but no matter what metric you use, the fact is these two candidates have basically SPLIT the vote. They're both going to end up with over 17 million votes. They'll end up being less than a percentage point apart. That amount can't be discounted or ignored. Her support is real and legitimate and it's coming from "real" democrats.

I still can't get over what an idiot Ickes was on Saturday. He and McCullife are giving sore losers a bad name. You can see which of her supporters are accepting this loss gracefully and which ones are hell bent on going down kicking and screaming. I just wonder which ones she's listening to. The Obama supporters on the Rules Comittee should have gone out of their way to give her enough Michigan delegates to shut Ickes up. Unfortunately, they thought a sensible compromise would actually work. On Saturday there were enough votes for a 50/50 Michigan split to pass, but the Obama supporters wisely passed on that option and went for the 69/59 delegate split. But that's not enough for Ickes. Some people in that room should have realized he was about to go off and just gone ahead and made it something like 75/54, JUST TO SHUT HIM THE HELL UP! At the end of the day, Ickes put on that show over 2 votes. I repeat, 2 VOTES! With Michigan being seated at 1/2 strength, that's what those 4 delegates Ickes was crying about amount to, 2 friggin' delegates. She's going to lose by more than 100 and this sore loser is cursing and threatening to take it to Credentials Committee. Way to give Republicans a sound bite that will have them rolling in sunshine and puppies. Unbelievable.

I know he is a such a sore loser it is ridiculous. This isn't the recount or something like that.

[Jedieb]

[QUOTE=Jedieb;270715
I know he is a such a sore loser it is ridiculous. This isn't the recount or something like that.

And every time I hear a Clinton supporter bring up 2000 I want to puke. It's not even close to being the same thing. It sure as heck wasn't the same back in Jan. when Clinton herself said Florida and Michigan didn't count. When did they start to count? After she got creamed in Feb. and fell behind. And it's hysterical when they say "count every vote" and then don't count caucus votes to get the popular vote majority. Unreal.

Why have Superdelegates taken so long?
I was thinking about this earlier today. If you back to Jan., HC had a SD lead of close to 100. She had been winning them at a ratio of around 2.4 to 1. I honestly think that's a fair representation of what team Clinton thought their SD haul was going to be at the end of the race. I also think it's fair to say that that's how many of the SD's would have voted if you'd polled them late last year. I think many of these SD's who've voted for Obama never thought he'd win them over or that he would have won their district, state, or caucus. It must be a bitter pill for HC to see so many of these's SD's that she thought were in the bag vote for Obama. I think many of them have not declared yet because they may have promised her their votes back in 07 and just don't want to offend or anger her now. Regardless, the floodgates are going to open after Tuesday. I think Obama is going to go out on a winning note and win both Montana and SD tomorrow. Victory at last.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think some are waiting for after tomorrow. I heard on MSNBC that the House leadership will announce it tomorrow.

[Cat X]

I don't think they'd take kindly to being called 'catladies,' that's the word that would probably set more than a few of them off. I think they acted like idiots as well,

Screw them. No seriously, the Democrats dont need that loony brigade.



but they're not the only women that feel that Hillary has gotten a raw deal. The fact is, Hillary has gotten a significant amount of support in these primaries. I think her popular vote argument is ridiculous, but no matter what metric you use, the fact is these two candidates have basically SPLIT the vote. They're both going to end up with over 17 million votes. They'll end up being less than a percentage point apart. That amount can't be discounted or ignored. Her support is real and legitimate and it's coming from "real" democrats.


However as I already said, the sane ones yes they do need to be attended to. However, it's not going to be as big a problem as some think it will be - almost all of them will not vote Republican. Almost all of them will come around and they will be voting Obama in November.

Thence

1) The Insane catladies are a tiny minority. Who cares about those idiots. I bet I have more cats than them too.

2) The vast majority sane Hillary voters will have no problem voting for Obama. The "raw deal" is a meme with no truth and no legs..... promoted in no small part by the Hillary campaign.

3) The real damage is being caused by the insane idiots on the Hillary campaign anyway. Obama has made a point of being concilatory to them, it's up to them to shut up and stop party damage an let Obama swing the party behind him.

[Cat X]

Why have Superdelegates taken so long?
I was thinking about this earlier today. If you back to Jan., HC had a SD lead of close to 100. She had been winning them at a ratio of around 2.4 to 1. I honestly think that's a fair representation of what team Clinton thought their SD haul was going to be at the end of the race. I also think it's fair to say that that's how many of the SD's would have voted if you'd polled them late last year. I think many of these SD's who've voted for Obama never thought he'd win them over or that he would have won their district, state, or caucus. It must be a bitter pill for HC to see so many of these's SD's that she thought were in the bag vote for Obama. I think many of them have not declared yet because they may have promised her their votes back in 07 and just don't want to offend or anger her now. Regardless, the floodgates are going to open after Tuesday. I think Obama is going to go out on a winning note and win both Montana and SD tomorrow. Victory at last.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/02/sources-most-uncommitted-senators-to-endorse-obama/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/2/17147/70564/269/513334

Looks like they will give him enough to win officially via pledged delegates then another 30+ supers at the least will jump. All probably stagemanged by Obama because it looks better to win with the voted delegates.

[Jedieb]

7 SD's came out for Obama today giving him 5.5 more votes. He's less than 40 away. Obama spent alot of time on the phone today talking to SD's. I'm pretty sure you'll see 30 or more come out during the day tomorrow before the primaries have ended. The stage could be set for him to declare victory tomorrow night. I think it's telling that Hillary will be back in NY tomorrow night. That's the best place for her to thank her supporters and give a concession speech.

If I'm Obama one of the first things I'd do is getting the fundraising ball rolling and get Clinton's campaign debt retired. The sooner he gets her stumping for him the better.

[Jedieb]

It looks like it's over. Through backdoor channels Clinton has told Obama she's going to concede tomorrow night. All that's left is for the SD's to come out, the polls to close, and the timing of the concession and victory speeches to get set.

[Cat X]

So what did he promise in return for her to go away?

[Yog]

I think this has been in the cards for a while now between Clinton spending election night in New York and Bill Clinton privately admitting a 50/50 split for MI/FL is the best solution. Also notice she did not do any statements after the decision by the rules comitee. It was just Ickes "reserving" the option of going to conference.

Thankfully it is finally over.


http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=227082

[Jedi Master Carr]

So what did he promise in return for her to go away?

maybe to pay off her debt. I think that was one reason she was still in the race.

[Jedieb]

So what did he promise in return for her to go away?

maybe to pay off her debt. I think that was one reason she was still in the race.

I'm sure that's one of the promises that was made. I read that a few SD's from Montana and SD will declare for their state's winner tonight. Only a couple of SD's so far today. His number is down to 38 right now. I expected a few more to come out this morning but it looks like a lot of SD's may be waiting for the polls to close.

[Jedieb]

Today is going to be hysterical at time. In the last 5 minutes the AP has reported that HC will concede tonight and then issued an update with McCulliffe saying she's not conceding.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well the AP actually said she was going to say he won the delegates or something like that. I didn't think she was going to concede tonight anyway. I was thinking she do it tomorrow.

[Jedieb]

He's gotten yet another endorsement. I've got a rough count that puts him right at 2118 if he wins both primaries today. I expect a few more to come in this afternoon.

[Jedi Master Carr]

MSNBC has the total at 33.5 the last I checked. CNN had it at around 40. CNN seems more reluctant or just slow with these endorsements

[Jedieb]

Another declared, that's 2 in the last 20 minutes. Looks like the flood gates are about to open. I think more than a few of these SD's want to curry favor with Obama.

[Yog]

According to CNN, Clinton will concede Obama done enough to be elected as democratic nominee, but not stop the campaign. What is she campaigning for then? VP ticket?


Two senior Clinton campaign officials told The Associated Press she will concede Tuesday night or early Wednesday that Obama has done enough to secure the Democratic nomination, but she will stop short of formally suspending or ending her race.

Just minutes later, campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe told CNN that Clinton will not concede at a New York rally being held after voting closes in Montana and South Dakota.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/03/primary.wrap.int/index.html

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think that is ego, I think she will come out early and do her thing before she can admit that he won.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The AP is already calling it
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/ap_on_el_pr/primary_rdp;_ylt=AjsGbN4rGTO9FGNuo0lAyUCs0NUE

maybe they got mad after Hillary's campaign did that rebuttal heh.

[Jedieb]

The SD count is now up to 9 for the day. As for her stopping her campaign, she really can't do that. If she stops her campaign then she can't continue fundraising. All she has to do is concede and suspend her campaign tonight. I think even Edwards' campaign has only offically been 'suspended.' So, it's just a money issue. Even with Obama paying part of her debt, she still needs to be able to bring in money as long as possible.

[Cat X]

. Even with Obama paying part of her debt, she still needs to be able to bring in money as long as possible.

Campaign funding laws disallow Obama's campaign from paying more than $2300 to the Clinton campaign. Thence ANY payment beyond that is illegal. He is allowed to do fund raising for her and direct his non maxed out contributors to help her out. But as for one campaign paying another's debts, that's a big no no now.

10 Edwards Delegates are now officially endorsing Obama, 4 switched from Clinton to Obama, 12 delegates to go. That will obviously be the delegates gained from the primaries today. No doubt the Super delegate flood will continue tho and expecting a few more to switch from Clinton to Obama.

[Jedieb]

. Even with Obama paying part of her debt, she still needs to be able to bring in money as long as possible.

Campaign funding laws disallow Obama's campaign from paying more than $2300 to the Clinton campaign. Thence ANY payment beyond that is illegal. He is allowed to do fund raising for her and direct his non maxed out contributors to help her out. But as for one campaign paying another's debts, that's a big no no now.


He'll pay a large part of that debt by getting donors of his to contribute to her and fundraising for her. That $2,300 is laughable, he could easily direct MILLIONS in her direction. That's one of the things being negotiated between the two sides.

It looks like Obama may get the nomination before the polls even close. He's only 5 away and the flood of delegates he's gotten today include some SD defections from Clinton. Her NYC speed tonight will be nothing but a concession. This ends tonight.

[Cat X]

[

He'll pay a large part of that debt by getting donors of his to contribute to her and fundraising for her. That $2,300 is laughable, he could easily direct MILLIONS in her direction. That's one of the things being negotiated between the two sides.

As I already said, he can direct donors to contribute, he is free to direct future fundraising as he wishes (with the crevat that the donatations MUST be accounted for and no maxed out Obama contributer can contribute and that the donators know where the money is going). But absolutly NO MORE than $2300 from the donations he has right now can go to Clinton. None. And no one has the problem of their future donation going to Clinton if they dont want it to. the law is quite specific that the cash can go to exactly where you want it to go to. If you say "Only Obama" then that's where it goes.

He can not pay the debts occured by another campaign, he can only join in fundraising. The McCain-Feidgold law is very clear on that.

[Jedieb]

Where will Obama be tomorrow night? In NYC hosting a PRIVATE fundraiser of wealthy donors. Meetings like this raise 10's sometimes 100's of thousands of dollars. Gee, I wonder where a lot of this money is going to get directed? He has the ability to funnel MILLIONS of dollars her way in the next few weeks, months. A single $2,300 check is entirely irrelevant when we're talking about paying off these kinds of debts. That single check is not even worth talking about. That's not how these debts get paid off.

[Jedieb]

Clinton has won SD. I was really hoping for an Obama sweep, just because it would have removed a temptation from Clinton to try to grab on to something tonight and even slightly hit Obama with it.

We'll see in the next few weeks how hard Clinton wants to go after the VP spot. Clinton is due to speak any minute now. McCain just got done with a speech. It was a solid speech and it's being received well. Nothing ground breaking, but a decent general election stump speech. Lord, how I'd love to see Hillary start slamming McCain tonight. Do your job and start supporting your party's nominee NOW! McCulliffe is introducing her right now.

[Cat X]

Where will Obama be tomorrow night? In NYC hosting a PRIVATE fundraiser of wealthy donors. Meetings like this raise 10's sometimes 100's of thousands of dollars. Gee, I wonder where a lot of this money is going to get directed? He has the ability to funnel MILLIONS of dollars her way in the next few weeks, months. A single $2,300 check is entirely irrelevant when we're talking about paying off these kinds of debts. That single check is not even worth talking about. That's not how these debts get paid off.

I just said the same thing

Twice

Dont get your knickers in a knot when I'm basically agreeing but also adding to information that is relavent.


He is allowed to do fund raising for her and direct his non maxed out contributors to help her out

As I already said, he can direct donors to contribute, he is free to direct future fundraising as he wishes
I'm just outlaying there are some real limits to what he can do, but I've already stated he can help her fundraise. And so he will.

So I dont get why your saying that I am claiming different. What I am stating is that the thought he can pay for her debts out of his at hand cash kitty he has right now is wrong - anything donated to him in the past can not go to her. It can not go to her except for $2300

[Cat X]

Oh thank the LORD it's finally over.

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/

Never thought I would ever see a black man nominated for President. Talk about real history being made today.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Clinton has won SD. I was really hoping for an Obama sweep, just because it would have removed a temptation from Clinton to try to grab on to something tonight and even slightly hit Obama with it.

We'll see in the next few weeks how hard Clinton wants to go after the VP spot. Clinton is due to speak any minute now. McCain just got done with a speech. It was a solid speech and it's being received well. Nothing ground breaking, but a decent general election stump speech. Lord, how I'd love to see Hillary start slamming McCain tonight. Do your job and start supporting your party's nominee NOW! McCulliffe is introducing her right now.


Well she didn't concede. She sounded like a sore loser to me. Not sure what this means. Hopefully she does concede tomorrow. Not sure what she is up to unless she is trying to get the VP slot or stay in the race long enough to pay off her debt.

[CMJ]

Never thought I would ever see a black man nominated for President. Talk about real history being made today.

It is historic, no question. Especially just a little over 4 decades removed from the Jim Crow South. But honestly I've felt for years that we would have a black President before a woman President. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we have a hispanic President before a female one either.

[Cat X]

Never thought I would ever see a black man nominated for President. Talk about real history being made today.

It is historic, no question. Especially just a little over 4 decades removed from the Jim Crow South. But honestly I've felt for years that we would have a black President before a woman President. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we have a hispanic President before a female one either.

At the least tho (and whatever one might think of how she ran her campaign), she's done plenty to open up the Presidential path for someone else. And she would have won the nomination if she had been facing anyone else other than a once in a lifetime candidate.

Of course it's doubtful she would have gotten that far without the last name of "Clinton" but hey, the fact is she did damn near win it and she's done much to clear the path for the next woman who tries. I kinda think we'll see a woman VP by 2016.

[Jedieb]

Where will Obama be tomorrow night? In NYC hosting a PRIVATE fundraiser of wealthy donors. Meetings like this raise 10's sometimes 100's of thousands of dollars. Gee, I wonder where a lot of this money is going to get directed? He has the ability to funnel MILLIONS of dollars her way in the next few weeks, months. A single $2,300 check is entirely irrelevant when we're talking about paying off these kinds of debts. That single check is not even worth talking about. That's not how these debts get paid off.

I just said the same thing

Twice

Dont get your knickers in a knot when I'm basically agreeing but also adding to information that is relavent.


He is allowed to do fund raising for her and direct his non maxed out contributors to help her out

As I already said, he can direct donors to contribute, he is free to direct future fundraising as he wishes
I'm just outlaying there are some real limits to what he can do, but I've already stated he can help her fundraise. And so he will.

So I dont get why your saying that I am claiming different. What I am stating is that the thought he can pay for her debts out of his at hand cash kitty he has right now is wrong - anything donated to him in the past can not go to her. It can not go to her except for $2300

You're the one who first responded to me as if I said something wrong. If anyone's got their knickers in a knot, it's you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedieb
. Even with Obama paying part of her debt, she still needs to be able to bring in money as long as possible.


Campaign funding laws disallow Obama's campaign from paying more than $2300 to the Clinton campaign. Thence ANY payment beyond that is illegal. He is allowed to do fund raising for her and direct his non maxed out contributors to help her out. But as for one campaign paying another's debts, that's a big no no now.


I was directly referring to the statement you made that one campaign can't pay off another's debt. That's just wrong. The money gets moved around in a variety of ways, but it's obvious where it comes from. And we've both shown examples of just how it gets done.

Close to 70 SD's came out yesterday, including at least 10 that switched from Clinton to Obama. I thought she should have conceded last night. And McCulliffe was an idiot for babbling "...on to the White House!" And it was particularly silly of her to say SD ended the primary while the polls were still open in Montana. She's playing hardball at a time when she should have been more concilliatory. I have no doubt now that she wants that VP spot. I don't know how Obama is going to react. Many of her supporters are adamant about withholding their support. And it's not just fringe Hillary supporters. I'm not even sure my wife will vote for Obama. When I asked her if she'd really vote for McCain she said, "No, I just won't vote."


If he wants to stand up to her and deny her the VP spot he has to be smart about it. He can't publicly rule her out right now. He's got to wait until sometime in July and let passions cool down. In a few weeks he can get a sense of where her supporters are and then make a decision. If he can get her to campaign for him in the meantime that would be a huge plus.

Make no mistake, she CAN torpedo him. Reagan did it to Ford in 76. Ford was trailing Carter by almost 20 points but ended up losing the popular vote by around 3 points. Reagan could have probably turned a couple of key states for Ford and won that election but he sat on his hands and refused to campaign for him down the stretch. He sabotaged him and was there ready and waiting 4 years later. HC is a loyal Democrat, but she's also shrewd and ambitous enough to pull something like that off. I just hope she doesn't attempt it.

[Figrin D'an]

I've heard rumors that Hillary doesn't actually want to be VP on Obama's ticket, but that she wants to be asked and have the first opportunity to turn it down. Essentially, she wants it to be a gesture of good will from Obama, and a way to hopefully mend some of the rift between the supporters of the two campaigns, but will politely turn it down. On the flip side, supposedly Obama really has no interest in Hillary being his VP, and will only offer it to her if he gets assurances that she will indeed turn it down.

Again, these are just the rumors I've heard floating around the blogosphere. But, given the bad blood that has existed between the two at times, and that it's pretty clear that Obama wants to make a clean break from the Clinton Years of the Democratic Party, it would seem to be a very distinct possibility.

[Yog]

I've also heard Michelle Obama can't stand the Clinton's and you better believe her husband hears it over the morning newspaper / coffee...



I've heard rumors that Hillary doesn't actually want to be VP on Obama's ticket, but that she wants to be asked and have the first opportunity to turn it down.
What I don't understand though, why would the Clinton campaign announce she is willing to join the ticket as VP if she is going to reject it anyhow? I have hard time believing she would do such theatrics just to mend the rift. The only way that makes sense is if she knows she would not be offered the position, and is trying to make Obama look bad. Of course, a lot of the things Clinton did this campaign did not make any sense, so who knows.



On the flip side, supposedly Obama really has no interest in Hillary being his VP, and will only offer it to her if he gets assurances that she will indeed turn it down.
I do believe that rumour. She is an inconvenience. All the baggage and the negative campaigning makes her a poisoned pill to swallow in the fall. It does not flow well with his message of change. Clinton even said McCain would be a better commander in chief. How can you have a running mate thinking the republican candidate is better? On the other hand, how can Obama unify the party without offering her the #2 runner up with so many democrats (about 50% to be exact) wanting it? A sizable portion of the democrats are going to be upset (I guess about 20% will either sit home or vote for McCain. It is an unpleasant dilemma.

I think picking someone else than Clinton is the lesser evil though, because Clinton is like the antichrist for some people, particularly the independents sitting on the fence, and even some Obama supporters can't stand her.

This is one of the reasons I think Sebelius would be good choice as VP, because then the female demographic would get a woman in the White House, but without the controversy. Besides gender considerations, Sebelius is simply a solid VP candidate. I heard a lot of complaints on the lack of name recognizability though. My take on this is, you become known as VP candidate whether you want it or not. I can bet you, no one is going to ignore her. She does stand out. And she got a clean slate. The the dirt diggers at Fox news will have a hard time finding any mud to sling at her.

While I don't think Obama will offer Clinton VP, he might offer her some other position, saying "she will have some role in my administration". That way, he can campaign without having her on the presidential debates, and give the Clinton supporters a carrot to vote for him.


Edit: As far as other candidates go (other than Sebelius). Personally, I like John Edwards, he would fit perfectly with Obama's campaign. Edwards is almost as believable as Obama in his message for change, and he polls very well. Problem is, I don't think Edwards wants to run as VP candidate any more, I think he even said as much. I also like Bloomberg, but he would not resonate well with the working class demographic, which Obama already struggles with. Then there are various heavyweight veterans like Biden, Dodd, Richardson. While those are very experienced, it does not strike me as a good idea having political furniture on the ticket if you are going to claim you want to change Washington.

[Jedieb]

I've heard rumors that Hillary doesn't actually want to be VP on Obama's ticket, but that she wants to be asked and have the first opportunity to turn it down. Essentially, she wants it to be a gesture of good will from Obama, and a way to hopefully mend some of the rift between the supporters of the two campaigns, but will politely turn it down. On the flip side, supposedly Obama really has no interest in Hillary being his VP, and will only offer it to her if he gets assurances that she will indeed turn it down.

Again, these are just the rumors I've heard floating around the blogosphere. But, given the bad blood that has existed between the two at times, and that it's pretty clear that Obama wants to make a clean break from the Clinton Years of the Democratic Party, it would seem to be a very distinct possibility.

If that's true, that she wants to be asked and then she'll turn it down, then it's rather arrogant. Instead of making last night a celebration of something historic, she tried to make it about HER. She's really starting to get slammed by a lot of democrats today. I don't think it's any accident that you're seeing so many SD's switch their vote from Clinton to Obama. I think it's their way of showing their displeasure with her speech last night. And if she's going to backtrack now and say that her signaling she'd accept the VP as a kind of concession, I'm sorry, but that's not good enough. If she wants to make a public show of turning down the VP spot to encourage her supporters to forgive Obama then they're other ways of doing it. You concede and then you arrange things behind the scenes. Even if she waits until tomorrow to concede it still produces another news cycle where Dems are seen fighting each other and she comes across as a sore loser. I know the longer she takes to concede the more it irks me and I'm not a Hillary basher.

[Figrin D'an]

I personally think Obama would be best served by going with someone like Bill Richardson as his VP (bring in Latino votes, strong foreign policy cred), or maybe even a dark horse like Evan Bayh (good national security cred) to help counter McCain's strengths in the general election.

There's probably going to be some token discussion between Obama and Clinton about the VP spot, but I seriously doubt that Hillary will end up on the ticket. I could see Obama giving her a prime time speech slot at the Democratic Convention as a door prize, but that's as far as it will go.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I personally think Obama would be best served by going with someone like Bill Richardson as his VP (bring in Latino votes, strong foreign policy cred), or maybe even a dark horse like Evan Bayh (good national security cred) to help counter McCain's strengths in the general election.

There's probably going to be some token discussion between Obama and Clinton about the VP spot, but I seriously doubt that Hillary will end up on the ticket. I could see Obama giving her a prime time speech slot at the Democratic Convention as a door prize, but that's as far as it will go.

I don't think she will get VP. If I were Obama I offer her a chance at the Supreme Court (one of those old guys are going to retire one of these days). For VP I say Richardson would be a good choice. Oh it does look like she is going to concede and endorse Obama Friday if you believe the news reports.

[Jedieb]

Well, she's finally calling it quits. This Saturday she'll officially endorse Obama. But make no mistake, Hillary got slapped down today. There were a couple of conference calls today with key Democrats, many of them of them supporters of Hillary, and they almost unanimously expressed displeasure with her speech last night. Without those calls she might have dragged this out for a couple of weeks. A lot of Dems were particulary ticked off at McCulliffe for his inane "were going to the White House!" comment when he introduced her.

I really think that her speech last night really hurt her VP chances. A lot of Dems were ticked off that she got so much coverage today when it should have been a day celebrating the party's nominee. I wonder how long it will take for HIllary supporters to cool down. I wonder just how many of them will stay home. I'm trying to figure out how to sell Obama to my own wife!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well, she's finally calling it quits. This Saturday she'll officially endorse Obama. But make no mistake, Hillary got slapped down today. There were a couple of conference calls today with key Democrats, many of them of them supporters of Hillary, and they almost unanimously expressed displeasure with her speech last night. Without those calls she might have dragged this out for a couple of weeks. A lot of Dems were particulary ticked off at McCulliffe for his inane "were going to the White House!" comment when he introduced her.

I really think that her speech last night really hurt her VP chances. A lot of Dems were ticked off that she got so much coverage today when it should have been a day celebrating the party's nominee. I wonder how long it will take for HIllary supporters to cool down. I wonder just how many of them will stay home. I'm trying to figure out how to sell Obama to my own wife!

If she campaigns for him that should help. As far as selling it to your wife tell her how bad McCain will be for the country. Try to argue that he will ruin women's rights. Also point out that Obama and Hillary share just about the same ideology and goals (except health care).

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Continued here (http://75.126.43.122/forum/showthread.php?p=271088#post271088)