Election(s) 2004

[Marcus Telcontar]

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...55E421,00.html

It's finally on. Australia is going to the polls in what I expect will be one nasty and bitter campain. As the first of the allies that invaded Iraq, this could be a real pointer to how Blair and Bush may go. Blair, if you dont know, is in real political trouble and has been for some time. However, he has time to recover.

Howard came out of the war resonably unscathed, but the scandals that have come up since it's end are biting.

The other big issue is a scandal known as "Children Overboard".. The Howard governemt won in 2001 because a huge refugee story involving the Tampa and SEIV X. To find out more about this, please see this website - http://www.truthoverboard.com/

Tampa crisis - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...es&btnG=Search

SEIV X -

http://www.echonews.com/840/politics.html

I do think both the USA and Aust elections will be similar and in many ways linked, which is unusual IMO. Bush having one of his closest allies voted out would be a bad omen.

The other thing is that, unlike the Olympics or other times mooted as target times, the Election in Aust is a real terrorist target, because of the involvement Australia had in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Normally, I'm not worried in the slightest by terror alerts, but after Spain's bombings, I believe that if Al Quadia were to hit Australia, now is the time. Howard would wear the fault for that, much like the Spanish governemnt did. I would hate to be proven right.

I wont be spending too much time worrying about it, but I do realise it's likely. Thanks John. They didnt even know where the hell we were before your toadying to Bush in Iraq.

Anyway, hopefully this will be the end for Howard. I shall be watching what happens with interest, even if I decided a long time ago whom I am voting for.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Two big gaffes today...

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...%255E2,00.html

Yes George, you said it right. When did you clue on?

"I don't think you can win it, but I think you can create conditions so that those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world."

That's Mr Bush is the first bit of common sense you have said in a long time. Pity you didnt say it earlier. Pity no one is going to like the truth this time. Pity you have been going on about winning the war on terror. You painted yourself in a corner.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...55E421,00.html

And John Howard's credibility is attacked once again with the Children Overboard affair. Howard cant lie straight in bed. I think it was a grave erro for the Prime Minster to make truth an issue in the Election, when he's known to have lied... a lot.

[Pierce Tondry]

Yes George, you said it right. When did you clue on?

"I don't think you can win it, but I think you can create conditions so that those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world."

Those of us who truly understood the nature of the beast saw this as the victory condition from the get-go. I see the quoted statement as little more than a qualification for those who didn't get the point through the rhetoric the first time around.

[Dan the Man]

Originally posted by Marcus Telcontar
Two big gaffes today...

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...%255E2,00.html

Yes George, you said it right. When did you clue on?

"I don't think you can win it, but I think you can create conditions so that those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world."

That's Mr Bush is the first bit of common sense you have said in a long time. Pity you didnt say it earlier. Pity no one is going to like the truth this time. Pity you have been going on about winning the war on terror. You painted yourself in a corner.

This is nothing more than political pedantics at its worst. Trying to insinuate its a concession by the administration is foolhearty.

[Pierce Tondry]

Oh, and Mark. You know that Kerry guy you're angling for?

Mr Kerry, who is staying low-key during the opposing party's convention, said he "absolutely" believed the war on terror could be won.

Apparently he hasn't clued in yet.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't think he meant to say we couldn't win, I think its typical Bush speak he quite commonly missays thing like saying I am East Texas Girl that kind of stuff. Of course now they have to say he meant it because other wise it makes him look really dumb. Personally the war on Terror can be won. When we destroy Al'Quadia and Bin Ladin yeah and end the reason countries hate us. I think these are all doable.

Now talk about flip flops

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...pr/cvn_bush_30

First it was oh we can't win in a convential sense and now oh we will win in convential sense. Well what is is Mr President?

[Dan the Man]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
I don't think he meant to say we couldn't win, I think its typical Bush speak he quite commonly missays thing like saying I am East Texas Girl that kind of stuff.

Precisely. Everybody get their panties out of a wad, now.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I am not saying that, but why the heck did they bother to try to say he meant something else? Just say he screwed up shows how stupid politicians are.

[Dutchy]

I think Bush' victory is gonna be as big as Kerry's hair.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Dutchy
I think Bush' victory is gonna be as big as Kerry's hair.

I really don't know how to react to that.

I honestly have no clue who will win, or who will get my vote.

[Sanis Prent]

No clue who will win, but neither get my vote.

[Marcus Telcontar]

The real problem Bush faces whith his comment is this - a 'war' on Terrorism can be won, but it cant be won via military means, with, up to now, is the 'way' it seems to me that thew 'war' would be won in the minds of the general public.

I think you can create conditions so that those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world.

However, this is a proper and effective response. Terrorism is a scoio problem as well, probably more so. I've heard Kerry talk about attackign the root cause of terrorism before, this is the first time I've heard Bush say it. And I have to reluctantly admit, that is pleasing.

Where I say it'll be a problem for him is that he's placed such a heavy emphasis on the 'war' and wining in a military sense. What he should have said is yes it can be won BUT winnign also includes buildign the conditions so terrorism is not acceptibe etc. In that, he creates a good statement that's not agruable.

So when Joe Sixpack hears Bush's latest statement, how's it goign to go down? Not well. I approve of it, you can approve we understand the real ways terrorism needs to be beaten. Joe Sixpack probably doesnt care. He just wants to hear there's no more terrorists. Preferably they got killed.

:: Note, must check Murdoch press to see if they are runnign with it ::

[Jedieb]

The campaign has gotten particularly disgusting in the last few weeks. Outright lies, resignations from campaign staff, accusations, subsequent apologies, etc. A perfect example of one of the lowpoints, jagoff delegates are wearing "Purple Heart" band-aids at the Rep convention. Can you imagine DNC delegates wearing the same kind of band-aids in 96 to mock Dole? Unbelievable. I'm hoping things will improve once the debates begin.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Jedieb
The campaign has gotten particularly disgusting in the last few weeks. Outright lies, resignations from campaign staff, accusations, subsequent apologies, etc. A perfect example of one of the lowpoints, jagoff delegates are wearing "Purple Heart" band-aids at the Rep convention. Can you imagine DNC delegates wearing the same kind of band-aids in 96 to mock Dole? Unbelievable. I'm hoping things will improve once the debates begin.

Considering that Purple Hearts aren't meritorious awards, but have been used by some Kerry proponents to tout his character, I figure its a case of reaping the whirlwind to a degree. Crass? Yeah, to some degree. But that's politics for you.

[Jedieb]

Dole, Kerry, McCain, Bush Sr. all of them highlighted their military careers during their political careers. And every time one of them had their records dragged through the mud it was pathetic. Some people even threw some mud at Bush Sr. and it was despicable. It's one thing to examine someone's record, but it's something alltogether different to just make crap up. Karl Rove is simply a scumbag. Whether he's having pollsters call up SC voters to ask them what they think of McCain having a black child out of wedlock, or the last month's slimefest, it's crap.

Dole's conduct the last week was particularly disheartening. First he took a shot at Kerry, and then apologized the next day. What's really sad about it is that before Dole received his catastrophic war injury, he got Purple Hearts for superficial wounds. He knew exactly how the medals are awarded. Ragging on Kerry for getting the same kinds of wounds he was recognized for was hypocritical. In fact, one of Dole's Purple Hearts was awarded when he received a superficial wound after throwing a grenade. The grenade bounced off of something, probably a tree, back towards his position, and he caught some sharpnel. It was a minor wound, but Dole was still awarded the PH, and rightly so. I would never fault Dole for that award, because those are the kinds of things that happen when you're in a war zone. You get 3 limbs blown off on your way to see some buddies for beer (Cleland), you get hit by your own grenade (Dole), you spend 6 years in a prison camp (McCain) etc. Those things sure as hell don't happen when you do backflips to stay out of harm's way. That's one of the many things that pisses me off about this whole mess.

[Sanis Prent]

There's nothing wrong with highlighting military service in politics, nor did I say so. Yet my point still stands. Purple hearts honor a sacrifice a soldier makes in combat, but its not in any way a symbol of meritorious service. Why Kerry's boosters didn't put his bronze & silver star more in the spotlight than the hearts, I can only guess. Its a total non sequitur, and I see it no different than the sensationalist emotion-fest the Republicans are gushing over in their convention. Once again, it reinforces my view that this election is going to come down to style, rather than substance.

[Jedieb]

The Bronze and Silver star were highlighted just as much as the Purple Hearts. The Silver Star was especially highlighted. They've ALL been attacked. One of the main thrusts of this whole Swift Boat disgrace has been how Kerry won his Silver Star. The whole genesis of this isn't really what Kerry did during the war, but what he did AFTER the war. I didn't say you in particular said there was anything wrong with their records, or that they shouldn't campaign on them. But I disagree with your assessments of how meritorious PH's are. They're meritorious for one simple reason, you put yourself in a situation in which you were in physical danger. A difference in tragectory of a centimeter and whatever nicked you could just have easily opened up your neck and you're a dead man. Someone could be a jagoff and say McCain doesn't deserve any credit for being a POW. After all, he got CAPTURED! How could someone get props for being caught by the enemy? That's simply a load of crap. You run that risk every time you get in that plane. Every time you get in that boat. Every time you climb into your Humvee and drive down an alley. Awards like PH's should be respected because more often than not, their earned when a soldier puts himself at risk. And that's all I'm asking for, that they be RESPECTED. But some of these pricks are outright mocking them. They have no shame.

One of the many things that bothers me about this Rep convention is that they're parading speakers who really don't represent they're platform or Dubya's social agenda. It's one moderate after another, meanwhile the platform is more narrow than Callista Flockhart's waist. If they were honest, they'd throw out a few gay marriage amendment supporters and let them tell the country why so many people will end up in hell for choosing the wrong orafice. But after Pat Buchanan's 92 hate speech, the RNC has wised up.

Man, I just want the debates to start. And if Kerry craps out the way Gore did I'll jump in front of a bus.

[Sanis Prent]

There's still nothing meritorious about a Purple Heart. The only real requirement for a recipient to voluntarily complete is to be serving in active duty in a combat zone. All the PH means is that he got nicked or worse. That pre-requisite for earning the PH is what one should take notice of and honor, not that they got wounded in action. I'd paraphrase the quote from Patton, but its cliche' and we all know it. The PH is a sign of what a vet's gone through, and what he may have left behind. Nothing more, and nothing less.

I'm a day into the RNC and already I'm wanting to go back to watching paint dry somewhere. Blah blah sensationalism blah blah emotional diarrhea blah blah 911 never forget blah.

[Marcus Telcontar]

If they were honest, they'd throw out a few gay marriage amendment supporters and let them tell the country why so many people will end up in hell for choosing the wrong orafice. But after Pat Buchanan's 92 hate speech, the RNC has wised up

Isn't it interesting that the moderates show the real tolerance, however the Religous Right, who on one hand espouse God's love and forgiveness, sprout hate and discord against 'sinners' on the other. You'ld think the religious right sense the hypocracy and change.

Oh wait. Do you mean Jesus never condemned or hate spoke against sinners, but blasted the Religious Right of His day? (*)

Oh snap.

Problem guys!

Jesus was a screaming left wing liberal hippy with every little in common with the religious Right.

anyway, now that lil aside has been said, the RNC has been interestign to listen to. However, I sort of feel it's not as well scripted as the DNC was. The DNC was politically well done. I just dont feel the RNC is being done as well, even if the line up of speakers is great so far and it's worth the listen to. There doesnt feel like there's anythign new.

The band-aid Purple Heart thing is an insult to every soldier who recieved one.

Just as an aside, how's the Switf Boat for Truth BS being recieved generally? Here in Aust, it's being made out as a smear campain that's been exposed as a lie and a Republican Party front. What's it look liek in the USA?


(*) I could be defined as a Fundamentalist Christian - I do think homosexuality is wrong and gay marrige is wrong. But.... I am noting the splinter in someone's eye and ignoring the plank in my own? Am I right with God? Am I blameless? Have I followed the rules? Have I forgiven everyone?

Left wing libralism and Jesus have much in common, so I guess these days I'm trying to personally match the fundie view and the leftist reality. Who said faith was unthinking, cause they are soooo wrong. But anyway, I muse on these things more in my own forum at Meras. If you want to debate this topic, please feel free to there

[Dan the Man]

Lets not lower ourselves to the neo-con's level and politicize Jesus, please. I doubt he'd be for Patriot Act, but then again, I also doubt he'd care for Keynesian economics either. Out of bounds, next serve.