2008 Presidential Race Part Two

[Figrin D'an]

Speculation was that Obama would choose someone with a strong foreign policy background; Biden fits that mold.

Biden is certainly a very intelligent man, but he doesn't always communicate very well... he has a history of verbosity, and has made some awful gaffes at times when he is allowed to ramble (the confirmation hearings for Justices John Roberts and Samuel Alito come to mind as recent examples). That said, when he gets to the point and is concise, he can be very effective. He made some excellent points in the early race for the Democratic nomination that are very applicable to the here and now (he pretty much called the Russia/Georgia situation 7 months before the fighting started).

Seems like a solid choice on the surface, and in terms of enhancing Obama's electability, was a far smarter choice that going with one of the less experienced options he was considering.

It will be interesting if the choice of Biden by Obama effects what McCain's choice will be.

[Daiquiri]

Obama just lost the race by not choosing Hilary. While I think she wouldve made an excellent VP for us, she wouldnt have given Obama a moments peace.

McCain is the lesser of two evils in this case though I vehemently disagree with some of his ideas. I so wish Jim Edgar (former Illinois govenor) or Colin Powell wouldve run in this election. Maybe in '12 I'll get lucky. (And Powell's wife will relent since Obama hasnt been whacked...yet)

Biden is a hothead and as Fig said above, too many gaffes. We've had enough of that with the buffoon who is leaving office.

[Sanis Prent]

Obama just lost the race by not choosing Hilary. While I think she wouldve made an excellent VP for us, she wouldnt have given Obama a moments peace.

McCain is the lesser of two evils in this case though I vehemently disagree with some of his ideas. I so wish Jim Edgar (former Illinois govenor) or Colin Powell wouldve run in this election. Maybe in '12 I'll get lucky. (And Powell's wife will relent since Obama hasnt been whacked...yet)

Biden is a hothead and as Fig said above, too many gaffes. We've had enough of that with the buffoon who is leaving office.

This is highly unlikely, Hillary is only relevant to the fringes and PUMAs and the hype around her is entirely a media fabrication.

That being said, I can barely swallow my acidic contempt for Joe Biden, so I really hate this veep choice. My personal grievances with the man aside, I don't think you want a president who is already a cult of personality to join a ticket with a big name who is really really prone to having stupid things fly out of his mouth. Dick Cheney might have shot somebody in the face with a shotgun, but you can mark my words that Joe Biden will recreate the verbal equivalent of it.

I'll still vote the Obama ticket in November, but I'm a bit of a sad panda. The only thing that makes me lol is that look at McCain's potential veep field. Haha.

Also, Colin Powell? Seriously? I mean he has zero credibility left. In ancient times you gave people like that their sword and politely inferred that they should go somewhere private and fall on it. He should never do a single thing in politics again. His gut check time was back in 2003 at the UN security council, and he could have chosen at any time to buck up. He didn't.

[Yog]

I am not a fan of Biden (I disagree on him on several political views), and he is probably not the best pick (I wanted Sebelius), but I think he is a solid pick nevertheless. Biden brings to the table exactly what the Obama campaign needs right now; perception of experience, resonance to blue collar voters and a heavyweight name in foreign policy. The man predicted the Russian - Georgian conflict about 6 months before it happens. He has more than 30 years of experience (a decade more than McCain btw), and he knows the inns and outs of political and legislation processes. He would be a valuable advisor and important asset of Obama's cabinet. Someone who is not afraid of giving a pragmatic counter argument if Obama goes over the top idealistic: "Look, I've been 30 years in politics and what you are proposing is crazy and won't work, and here is why...". He is the sort of political partner that would put Obama's feet on the ground when he needs it.

Certainly, he is a loudmouth, but that is as much of an asset as a negative I think. I don't see any potential GOP VP candidate that would be able to win a debate against him. He would eat Mitt Romney alive. For all the potential gaffes he would spill, the man is a fuming dynamite cube that gives a much needed punch in response and counter programming to the increasingly negative campaigning of McCain. He is a pitbull terrier ready to go on attack.

[Jedieb]

Certainly, he is a loudmouth, but that is as much of an asset as a negative I think. I don't see any potential GOP VP candidate that would be able to win a debate against him. He would eat Mitt Romney alive. For all the potential gaffes he would spill, the man is a fuming dynamite cube that gives a much needed punch in response and counter programming to the increasingly negative campaigning of McCain. He is a pitbull terrier ready to go on attack.

I agree. I think Biden's ability to fight back against McCain and RNC attacks is his greatest strength. We are finally in the home stretch and the attacks will only increase. Biden brings nothing electorally but being Catholic and ties to Penn. helps, a bit. I don't expect numbers to fluctutate this week. I think dissappointed Hillary supporters will leave Obama's numbers flat for much of this week. We'll see how much they come to their senses as the week progresses. Which reminds me of a funny bit I heard yesterday during the coverage. The PUMA who made the "I voted for Hillary now I'm voting for McCain" commercial for the McCain campaign had a press conference yesterday. During the press conference a reporter asked her how she felt about McCain's pro-life position and his pledge to appoint justices who will likely overturn Roe V. Wade. To which she basically replied; "I was under the impression he was pro-choice..." If bitter Hillary supporters vote for McCain because of issues, fine, I can live with that. But if they do it just out of spite then they deserve to have issues they care about trampled.

[Liam Jinn]

I'm a bit confused watching this DNC speech by Mrs. Clinton, but I have walked out of the room a few times. Does Hillary know she's not the Democrat running for President this year?

Edit: Oh, ok she's tying it up now, and is mentioning Obama, neat.

[Jedi Master Carr]

She did a good job in helping Obama that will help out a lot. I already know of 2 Hillary supporters who are voting for Obama now. I think we will see a little movement. About Biden, I knew Obama would pick an older white man. I was thinking Richardson, but I guess they decided they needed to start attack and went with Biden for that reason.

[Yog]

Here is the whole speech by Hillary Clinton on YouTube for those who missed it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=268ncnoitEc

Also, the speech by Michelle Obama is worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTFsB09KhqI

Bill Clinton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3r6xvwPGcY

Joe Biden:
Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Surprise appearance

I think the Clinton's not only redeemed themselves, but made themselves candidates to consider for position in Obama's cabinet. That is the Clinton I used to know. Where have they been for the last 8 months?

Hopefully, this should convince more of Hillary's supporters to vote Obama come November.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Anybody hear Palawtay from Minnesota might be the VP for Republicans? That would be an awful choice. He has no experience to be President. Romney makes the most chance but maybe Mccain just can't stand him. If he picks that guy he won't gain nothing from that.

[Jedieb]

I've seen all of the major speeches and I'm looking forward to tonight. For what it's worth from me, it's been a very good convention. The media has been running down practically every "divided party" story it could find but I think the 2 Clinton speeches have done much to quell that story. The inevitable convention bounce is now starting to show. I expect it to continue but just as quickly drop a bit with McCain's VP announcement on Friday and the RNC next week. Unless the Republicans have a horrendous convention next week, the two candidates should be back close to even by the end of next week.

During this convention the Republicans have been attacking as often as possible. They're going to keep up the "Celebrity" attacks. One of the things the Republicans know how to do is to take a candidate's strength and turn it against him. They used Kerry's military service against him in 04 and their going to use Obama's popularity and oratory gifts against him. The latest RNC talking points include criticisms of the set he's using for the speech tonight. The columns, the stage, it's a coronation, blah, blah, blah. Never mind that the set looks very similar to the one Bush spoke on in 04, the attack is what matters.

I'm curious to see what the Dems will do next week. Will they hammer away with surrogates, ads, or the candidates themselves? I think they need to have Biden hammering away starting Monday morning. Start spending that war chests and flood the airwaves with ads while the RNC convention plays itself out. Sit on your hands during next week and you'll be sitting back in the Senate in January.

I wonder what effect Gustav may have on the RNC convention next week? It's churning towards the Gulf Coast and could make landfall next Tues. What will the effect of seeing another hurricane slam into that area have? It'll certainly suck up media coverage, but who will that hurt? Will memories of the Bush administration, FEMA, and "Heck of job Brownie" hurt McCain? Or will a efficient response by the Federal government and VP prospect Jindal be a boost for McCain? Jindal is a long shot and my money is on Romney, but he's gotten a lot face time with McCain on the campaign trail and a good job next week would reflect well on McCain. It could end up meaning nothing at all but both parties are probably watching the Weather Channel right now.

[Sanis Prent]

Reposting my response to the "roman column" hit pieces from another forum because this is retarded and hilarious

Typical Optimate bluster about Populares and the supposed Ivory Obelisk elitism. Truly there is a good citizen among us to deliver a stinging rebuke unto Senator McCainus (lol ainus) that it was Corinthian columns that Diogenes of Synope reclined against when Alexander came to hear his rebuke? Why do the Optimates hate S.P.Q.R.?

[Jedi Master Carr]

I've seen all of the major speeches and I'm looking forward to tonight. For what it's worth from me, it's been a very good convention. The media has been running down practically every "divided party" story it could find but I think the 2 Clinton speeches have done much to quell that story. The inevitable convention bounce is now starting to show. I expect it to continue but just as quickly drop a bit with McCain's VP announcement on Friday and the RNC next week. Unless the Republicans have a horrendous convention next week, the two candidates should be back close to even by the end of next week.

During this convention the Republicans have been attacking as often as possible. They're going to keep up the "Celebrity" attacks. One of the things the Republicans know how to do is to take a candidate's strength and turn it against him. They used Kerry's military service against him in 04 and their going to use Obama's popularity and oratory gifts against him. The latest RNC talking points include criticisms of the set he's using for the speech tonight. The columns, the stage, it's a coronation, blah, blah, blah. Never mind that the set looks very similar to the one Bush spoke on in 04, the attack is what matters.

I'm curious to see what the Dems will do next week. Will they hammer away with surrogates, ads, or the candidates themselves? I think they need to have Biden hammering away starting Monday morning. Start spending that war chests and flood the airwaves with ads while the RNC convention plays itself out. Sit on your hands during next week and you'll be sitting back in the Senate in January.

I wonder what effect Gustav may have on the RNC convention next week? It's churning towards the Gulf Coast and could make landfall next Tues. What will the effect of seeing another hurricane slam into that area have? It'll certainly suck up media coverage, but who will that hurt? Will memories of the Bush administration, FEMA, and "Heck of job Brownie" hurt McCain? Or will a efficient response by the Federal government and VP prospect Jindal be a boost for McCain? Jindal is a long shot and my money is on Romney, but he's gotten a lot face time with McCain on the campaign trail and a good job next week would reflect well on McCain. It could end up meaning nothing at all but both parties are probably watching the Weather Channel right now.

Gustav could be huge, depending on how bad it is. Also the first NFL game is on next Thursday. I am surprised MCcain didn't bribe the NFL to move it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Great speech by Obama. He really head his ground and attacked Mccain's attack. That wasn't what Kerry or Gore did in the last two elections. I love the challenge he sent to Mccain that is what he needed to do.

[Yog]

Aye, Obama rocked the house with 85,000 people watching:


Full video of Obama's speech (clicky!)

[Yog]

Anybody hear Palawtay from Minnesota might be the VP for Republicans? That would be an awful choice. He has no experience to be President. Romney makes the most chance but maybe Mccain just can't stand him. If he picks that guy he won't gain nothing from that.

I heard that too. Tim Pawlenty is a complete unknown to me. Look, I can't stand Romney, but I can see why he would be a logical choice if the republicans want to win. Haha, check out the first thing wikipedia says about Pawlenty: "As Governor, he has become well known for freezing taxes by cutting funding for programs that were purported to help the poor."

Edit: I don't think it's going to be Pawlenty:

DENVER (AP) — John McCain is keeping the name of his running mate a closely held secret just hours before the Republican presidential candidate is set to introduce his No. 2 at an Ohio rally.

"I'm not going to be there. I plan to be at the state fair. You can draw your conclusion from that," one top prospect, Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, said early Friday on his weekly call-in radio show on WCCO-AM in Minneapolis.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j...PPoiQD92RU5HO3

Edit 2: Currently, there is a lot of buzz about Sarah Palin, Governor of Alaska. She may be young and inexperienced, but I like her. The main thing I don't like she is running for the wrong party and I think she would pull a lot of Hillary voters... ugh. The cynical side of me hopes McCain picks some old fanatical crackpot so Obama will win more easily...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

Edit 3: Phew, it is not going to be Sarah Palin. ABC reports Palin is still in Alaska. So who is left? Joe Lieberman? Mitt Romney?

I wonder what effect Gustav may have on the RNC convention next week? It's churning towards the Gulf Coast and could make landfall next Tues. What will the effect of seeing another hurricane slam into that area have? It'll certainly suck up media coverage, but who will that hurt? Will memories of the Bush administration, FEMA, and "Heck of job Brownie" hurt McCain? Or will a efficient response by the Federal government and VP prospect Jindal be a boost for McCain? Jindal is a long shot and my money is on Romney, but he's gotten a lot face time with McCain on the campaign trail and a good job next week would reflect well on McCain. It could end up meaning nothing at all but both parties are probably watching the Weather Channel right now.

I think it looks bad from a PR point point of view having a convention for the party responsible for how screwed up the New Orleans situation got the last time, while having the remote, yet ominous possibility of another hurricane flooding the exact same city. Especially if Bush holds a speech while the hurricane makes landfall. Going on the negative while people need aid is not going to win much votes. Not to mention, it will probably steal headlines at the major news agencies, just when McCain wants the highlight to be on his campaign. Maybe the storm won't make that much damage, but even so, it's going to be a distraction.

[Yog]

Posting seperately about republican VP, since it is, you know, important. Will post updates as they come in.

- MSNBC says Romney isn't in Dayton...

- Lieberman is in Dayton!

- FoxNews.com speculating on ex e-Bay executive Meg Whitman.

- It is not going to be Romney.

Update - Ack, it may be Palin after all:
- Republican source says Palin is the nominee, CNBC reports
- Flight from, Anchorage to Dayton VIA ... Flagstaff, AZ (plane is owned by a McCain donor, Lacy Clay)
- Rev. Rob Schenck says he was told it is Palin
- The Drudge is calling it Palin
- Fox News and CNN is now confirming Palin.

I give up, I'll call it as well:
McCain / Palin 08

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is worse than the Gov of Minnesota. Especially since she is under investigation for a a huge scandal in Alaska.

[Yog]

That is worse than the Gov of Minnesota. Especially since she is under investigation for a a huge scandal in Alaska.

I am intrigued, tell me more about it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I forget all the details, but her brother in law did something really bad I think embezzled money and she got him out of it. She has been under investigation for it for the past few months.

[Jedi Master Carr]

ok I was wrong about the scandal. I just remembered it involved her brother-in law. Her brother-in law is a state trooper and he was divorcing her sister. somebody in her office called his boss and try to fire him during the divorce. She is under investigation for it. Where it makes her look really bad is she criticized the previous governor who was corrupt. That is why this pick is crazy because if the staffer comes out and says she told her to do it or something, Mccain could have real egg on his face. Also she has no experience, to lead the country. If Mccain dropped dead the country be in a mess.