Jedi church in UK

[Atreyu]

It was inevitable. From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7200531.stm :

Force strong for new Jedi church

Two Star Wars-loving brothers planning a Jedi church hope it will be much nearer than a galaxy far, far away.

Barney and Daniel Jones want fellow devotees to be able to join them close to their home on Anglesey.

Barney, 26 - or Master Jonba Hehol - and Daniel, 21 - Master Morda Hehol - head the UK Church of the Jedi, in honour of the film's good knights. They say their services will include sermons on "the Force," light sabre training, and meditation techniques.

Hairdresser Barney became interested in the Jedi faith after 390,000 other Star Wars fans across England and Wales declared it as their religion on the 2001 census.

An internet campaign was fought to see Jedi officially included in the list and although this did not happen, collators included a special code to register the Jedis.

He said: "As children we always watched the Star Wars films anyway. We noticed that there were a couple of sites on the internet, Jedi church sites.

"We printed off a couple of sermons and did a sermon in our house for a couple of friends one night."

Barney and his musician brother Daniel, from Holyhead, help run four websites devoted to the development of the "faith".

They plan to go to the official opening of a Surrey-based branch or "chapter" of the UK Church of the Jedi in April, and hope to hire an Anglesey venue for their own services.

Already six followers regularly meet in north Wales to discuss setting up the "church".

"My brother and I would hold sermons, do talks and get guest speakers," explained Barney.

"We would read out essays members of the congregation have submitted on their feelings about the Jedi and the Force: do meditation, relaxation and visualisation techniques and a bit of light-sabre training."

Watching the films as children gave the brothers a good understanding of the "faith," said Barney.

"We had a knowledge of the Force from that and the teachings of Yoda. We've read the teachings on the internet.

"Our father is a karate black belt, we used to train with him, which is where we got the martial arts."

Barney, who has watched the Star Wars films "multiple dozens of times," does not wear film-themed clothing in public, but he and his brother would do so at Jedi church meetings.

'Sense of unity'

He said: "My brother and I will wear the Jedi robes, the dark brown robes... the congregation would be in black. Really to bring a sense of unity to the meetings."

Although the current members are all men, women are not excluded, as Barney Jones points out: "Princess Leia helped them out a lot."

However, any congregation member drawn to the dark side of the Force, embodied in the film by Darth Vader, would be advised they are following the wrong path and could face expulsion.

Barney explained: "Obviously, if someone starts to try and use the good force for greed and power, they are going to bring negative interference into the meetings.

"We cannot have the Force disrupted by negative interference."

I don't know which is funnier - that one of founders is a hairdresser, that they're downloading sermons from online fansites, or that they intend to expel church members who use the Dark Side.

[Alpha]

If there's force lightning involved, I so wanna go to the dark side.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Wow. I'm amazed that this is in the UK, not the US.

[Karl Valten]

I guess the yanks aren't the only weirdos out there.

[Alpha]

Hey I resent that. We should have the monopoly on wierdos.

[Lorn Kadross]

Wasn't Jedi a religion available to choose in the UK's census? Or am I mistaken and that was myth I'd heard?

[Dasquian Belargic]

It wasn't an option, as far as I know, but people just wrote Jedi in the 'Other' box.

[Forse Dirum]

That makes me kind of sad. I mean, there is a line, and once you cross it...

[Dasquian Belargic]

What, like every other 'religion' isn't just as ridiculous?

[Peter McCoy]

Well said, Jen!

[Peter McCoy]

And furthermore, as bizzare as it is, it's got to be better than Scientology!

[Dasquian Belargic]

In all seriousness, I don't see this as being that ridiculous. What they're doing is essentially incorporating the views and practices of existing religions into one - meditation, philosophy, physical well-being. Look at something like Luke's new code... it's all about respecting others, improving yourself, etc. Expelling the Dark Side? Just a fancy way of saying 'be good people'. That's essentially what various existing 'real' religions advocate, and some of them - I'm looking at you Roman Catholic Chruch - even have a belief in something like the Force (here, the Holy Spirit), not to mention all the various unusual rituals (Baptism, Communion, etc) involved in being part of the church. Hell, they wear robes themselves!

I'm not saying we should run out and join, just that this isn't as outlandish as it might immeadiately seem.

[JMK]

This is truly pathetic.

Lucas openly admits to stealing points from other religion's to create the 'way of the force'. Research one of those religions and join it. Religions are not things that you pick and choose the pieces that you like to build your own set of beliefs.

And what is this lightsaber training? Are you kidding me? Now fun and games are being mixed in...having wingnut fans swinging around sticks and calling it "religion"?

What next? A paint-by-numbers force bible? Pin the tail on the Nexu?

And what do you know? It's a congregation consisting of 100% males. And I can pretty much guarantee that it's going to stay that way. Guys like this repel females.

[Rod Stafford]

I am completely in agreement with Jenny here. What's pathetic about it? They take their guidance to live good lives from a science fiction film, I take mine from stories written a couple of thousand years ago. What difference does it make as long as they aren't hurting anyone? That is more than can be said for pretty much any other organised religion on the planet.

Who are we to say what is or isn't the correct thing in which to believe? The beautiful thing about what they believe is that it doesn't teach them to discriminate against others since it was based on fiction, in space, with wookiees.

[Dasquian Belargic]

All religions are ludicrous. Some guy rose from the dead, walked on water and healed people by just touching them? Adam and Eve? Ganesha the elephant-headed god? Bearded men throwing thunderbolts from the sky?

So what if George Lucas took inspiration from numerous religions? Did you ever consider the possibility that looking to multiple sources might be the best way to live? They all share many similar qualities. In the end, it's the core beliefs and principals that are important. How you treat others, how you live your own life, etc. The rest is just nonsense trappings, which can be found in most any religion - ceremonies and rites.

Research a religion and join it? What if I don't agree with everything that religion does? It's not like they are the be-all and end-all of society. Every religion had to start somewhere. Why shouldn't you pick and choose? Someone had to make it all up originally. After all, there's no real evidence that God or a god of any kind supplied the canonical texts for these revered religions. They're all just based on words, books that men wrote and convinced other men to believe in.

As far as lightsaber training goes... it's essentially just a martial art, like kendo - intended to keep the body fit and the mind focused. Lightsaber combat is all based on traditional forms of sword play anyway. I think it's nice that people are showing an interest in a physical activity, rather than just vegging in front of the TV like the majority of the nation.

[Atreyu]

Yay - a thread I made got more than 2 replies for once!

I found the idea of setting up a Jedi church more comical than anything. All laughing aside though, I do have to scratch my head and go "huh?" Regardless what one may thing of all the other religions on earth, Jedi are clearly a fictious construct by George Lucas who has clearly stated so - to setup a church dedicated to something that everyone knows to already be ficitious seems a bit .... weird I guess. O_o

[JMK]

So what if George Lucas took inspiration from numerous religions? Did you ever consider the possibility that looking to multiple sources might be the best way to live? They all share many similar qualities. In the end, it's the core beliefs and principals that are important. How you treat others, how you live your own life, etc. The rest is just nonsense trappings, which can be found in most any religion - ceremonies and rites.

Research a religion and join it? What if I don't agree with everything that religion does? It's not like they are the be-all and end-all of society. Every religion had to start somewhere. Why shouldn't you pick and choose? Someone had to make it all up originally. After all, there's no real evidence that God or a god of any kind supplied the canonical texts for these revered religions. They're all just based on words, books that men wrote and convinced other men to believe in.

What if you got engaged to a guy who said he was a practicing catholic, who agrees with and practices all of the commandments/scriptures/whatever. Then you find out he agrees with everything except the part about monogamy and adultery. He just didn't agree with it, so he doesn't incorporate it in to his beliefs/practices. Wouldn't that make you raise an eyebrow? Or two? You're about to marry a dude who thinks that having more than one partner or cheating just isn't that big of a deal. If you can deal with that, you're a stronger person than I am. Of course I may be exaggerating to make a point, but it's a slippery slope when you start playing the 'lego game' with religions.

When you agree to take a job, do you tell your boss that you're going to do tasks A,C,E and G, but not B,D, and F because you don't like them or don't agree with them? Nope, when you join a religion, or take a job, you take the good with the bad. It's called making a commitment.

As far as lightsaber training goes... it's essentially just a martial art, like kendo - intended to keep the body fit and the mind focused. Lightsaber combat is all based on traditional forms of sword play anyway. I think it's nice that people are showing an interest in a physical activity, rather than just vegging in front of the TV like the majority of the nation.

Agreed - getting exercise is 100% better than just sitting around getting fat. But to practise lightsaber fights under the guise of 'religion' is silly at best. If they were a bunch of guys getting together to get some exercise - that's one thing. But to say they're 'praying' or 'practicing what they believe in' by having choreographed stick fights is just....weird. Those guys may be sane, nice guys. But they need a serious reality check.

[Figrin D'an]

What if you got engaged to a guy who said he was a practicing catholic, who agrees with and practices all of the commandments/scriptures/whatever. Then you find out he agrees with everything except the part about monogamy and adultery. He just didn't agree with it, so he doesn't incorporate it in to his beliefs/practices. Wouldn't that make you raise an eyebrow? Or two? You're about to marry a dude who thinks that having more than one partner or cheating just isn't that big of a deal. If you can deal with that, you're a stronger person than I am. Of course I may be exaggerating to make a point, but it's a slippery slope when you start playing the 'lego game' with religions.

When you agree to take a job, do you tell your boss that you're going to do tasks A,C,E and G, but not B,D, and F because you don't like them or don't agree with them? Nope, when you join a religion, or take a job, you take the good with the bad. It's called making a commitment.

I fail to see how this argument is relevant at all to creation of a new religion. If a person doesn't agree with couple of specific tenants of a religion while agree with the greater majority of them, that's a personal issue that said person has to address. Either said person chooses to modify their belief structure to accept said requirements of this religion, or this person finds a different religion to practice that more closely matches his/her personal beliefs.

There are profound similarities between a great many of the world's religions. They have borrowed from each other, retold the same stories and taught many of the same basic concepts about the human experience. They differ primarily in the details. This Jedi Church in the UK is no different. They are borrowing from many different sources to establish a practicing religion that fits their belief structure. All long as this doesn't infringe upon anyone's individual rights, they have the freedom to practice whatever religious beliefs they choose.

Agreed - getting exercise is 100% better than just sitting around getting fat. But to practise lightsaber fights under the guise of 'religion' is silly at best. If they were a bunch of guys getting together to get some exercise - that's one thing. But to say they're 'praying' or 'practicing what they believe in' by having choreographed stick fights is just....weird. Those guys may be sane, nice guys. But they need a serious reality check.

There are also people who would say that believing in an invisible, omnipotent, omni-present being who created all of reality and influences our every action and thought and will sit in judgment of our immortal souls when we die is equally silly and weird. After all, I thought people were supposed to grow out of the 'imaginary friend' stage by puberty at the very least.

Is that 'reality' any more or less serious than practicing Jedi beliefs? Reality is what we as sentient beings make it after all.

[Dasquian Belargic]

What if you got engaged to a guy who said he was a practicing catholic, who agrees with and practices all of the commandments/scriptures/whatever. Then you find out he agrees with everything except the part about monogamy and adultery

I would assume that, if I was going to be marrying someone, I'd already know him well enough to be aware of his beliefs in this area. If I didn't, then more fool me for marrying someone so blindly.

As far as the job comparison goes, I don't see how that's really relevant. Religion isn't something that is compulsory/essential to life, unlike having a job, so I should be able to practice and believe whatever I want - so as I'm not negatively affecting others. I know plenty of Christians who don't buy into numerous aspects of their religion - more controversial parts of the Bible they choose to ignore and so on. Just look at the scores of different interpretations of the Bible. I thought that was the 'Word of God', yet you have who knows how many 'branches' of Christianity that all understand, and have rewritten, the Bible in their own way.

Jedi are clearly a fictious construct

I don't know what religion you follow, if any, but I'm going to assume that you don't flat out believe that all religions are based on factual sources.

[Razielle Alastor]

Oh come on Jen, didn't you know God was a Santa-esque guy sitting on a cloud, wearing a toga, shaking his finger at people who eat meat on Friday and casting them into eternal hell for it if they do?

Jedi church..?

No problem.