The SD count is now up to 9 for the day. As for her stopping her campaign, she really can't do that. If she stops her campaign then she can't continue fundraising. All she has to do is concede and suspend her campaign tonight. I think even Edwards' campaign has only offically been 'suspended.' So, it's just a money issue. Even with Obama paying part of her debt, she still needs to be able to bring in money as long as possible.
"Dad, you killed the zombie Flanders!" "He was a zombie?"
Campaign funding laws disallow Obama's campaign from paying more than $2300 to the Clinton campaign. Thence ANY payment beyond that is illegal. He is allowed to do fund raising for her and direct his non maxed out contributors to help her out. But as for one campaign paying another's debts, that's a big no no now.Originally Posted by Jedieb
10 Edwards Delegates are now officially endorsing Obama, 4 switched from Clinton to Obama, 12 delegates to go. That will obviously be the delegates gained from the primaries today. No doubt the Super delegate flood will continue tho and expecting a few more to switch from Clinton to Obama.
He'll pay a large part of that debt by getting donors of his to contribute to her and fundraising for her. That $2,300 is laughable, he could easily direct MILLIONS in her direction. That's one of the things being negotiated between the two sides.Campaign funding laws disallow Obama's campaign from paying more than $2300 to the Clinton campaign. Thence ANY payment beyond that is illegal. He is allowed to do fund raising for her and direct his non maxed out contributors to help her out. But as for one campaign paying another's debts, that's a big no no now.
It looks like Obama may get the nomination before the polls even close. He's only 5 away and the flood of delegates he's gotten today include some SD defections from Clinton. Her NYC speed tonight will be nothing but a concession. This ends tonight.
As I already said, he can direct donors to contribute, he is free to direct future fundraising as he wishes (with the crevat that the donatations MUST be accounted for and no maxed out Obama contributer can contribute and that the donators know where the money is going). But absolutly NO MORE than $2300 from the donations he has right now can go to Clinton. None. And no one has the problem of their future donation going to Clinton if they dont want it to. the law is quite specific that the cash can go to exactly where you want it to go to. If you say "Only Obama" then that's where it goes.
He can not pay the debts occured by another campaign, he can only join in fundraising. The McCain-Feidgold law is very clear on that.
Where will Obama be tomorrow night? In NYC hosting a PRIVATE fundraiser of wealthy donors. Meetings like this raise 10's sometimes 100's of thousands of dollars. Gee, I wonder where a lot of this money is going to get directed? He has the ability to funnel MILLIONS of dollars her way in the next few weeks, months. A single $2,300 check is entirely irrelevant when we're talking about paying off these kinds of debts. That single check is not even worth talking about. That's not how these debts get paid off.
Clinton has won SD. I was really hoping for an Obama sweep, just because it would have removed a temptation from Clinton to try to grab on to something tonight and even slightly hit Obama with it.
We'll see in the next few weeks how hard Clinton wants to go after the VP spot. Clinton is due to speak any minute now. McCain just got done with a speech. It was a solid speech and it's being received well. Nothing ground breaking, but a decent general election stump speech. Lord, how I'd love to see Hillary start slamming McCain tonight. Do your job and start supporting your party's nominee NOW! McCulliffe is introducing her right now.
I just said the same thing
Twice
Dont get your knickers in a knot when I'm basically agreeing but also adding to information that is relavent.
He is allowed to do fund raising for her and direct his non maxed out contributors to help her outI'm just outlaying there are some real limits to what he can do, but I've already stated he can help her fundraise. And so he will.As I already said, he can direct donors to contribute, he is free to direct future fundraising as he wishes
So I dont get why your saying that I am claiming different. What I am stating is that the thought he can pay for her debts out of his at hand cash kitty he has right now is wrong - anything donated to him in the past can not go to her. It can not go to her except for $2300
Oh thank the LORD it's finally over.
http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/
Never thought I would ever see a black man nominated for President. Talk about real history being made today.
Well she didn't concede. She sounded like a sore loser to me. Not sure what this means. Hopefully she does concede tomorrow. Not sure what she is up to unless she is trying to get the VP slot or stay in the race long enough to pay off her debt.
It is historic, no question. Especially just a little over 4 decades removed from the Jim Crow South. But honestly I've felt for years that we would have a black President before a woman President. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we have a hispanic President before a female one either.
At the least tho (and whatever one might think of how she ran her campaign), she's done plenty to open up the Presidential path for someone else. And she would have won the nomination if she had been facing anyone else other than a once in a lifetime candidate.It is historic, no question. Especially just a little over 4 decades removed from the Jim Crow South. But honestly I've felt for years that we would have a black President before a woman President. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we have a hispanic President before a female one either.
Of course it's doubtful she would have gotten that far without the last name of "Clinton" but hey, the fact is she did damn near win it and she's done much to clear the path for the next woman who tries. I kinda think we'll see a woman VP by 2016.
You're the one who first responded to me as if I said something wrong. If anyone's got their knickers in a knot, it's you.I just said the same thing
Twice
Dont get your knickers in a knot when I'm basically agreeing but also adding to information that is relavent.
He is allowed to do fund raising for her and direct his non maxed out contributors to help her outI'm just outlaying there are some real limits to what he can do, but I've already stated he can help her fundraise. And so he will.As I already said, he can direct donors to contribute, he is free to direct future fundraising as he wishes
So I dont get why your saying that I am claiming different. What I am stating is that the thought he can pay for her debts out of his at hand cash kitty he has right now is wrong - anything donated to him in the past can not go to her. It can not go to her except for $2300
I was directly referring to the statement you made that one campaign can't pay off another's debt. That's just wrong. The money gets moved around in a variety of ways, but it's obvious where it comes from. And we've both shown examples of just how it gets done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedieb
. Even with Obama paying part of her debt, she still needs to be able to bring in money as long as possible.
Campaign funding laws disallow Obama's campaign from paying more than $2300 to the Clinton campaign. Thence ANY payment beyond that is illegal. He is allowed to do fund raising for her and direct his non maxed out contributors to help her out. But as for one campaign paying another's debts, that's a big no no now.
Close to 70 SD's came out yesterday, including at least 10 that switched from Clinton to Obama. I thought she should have conceded last night. And McCulliffe was an idiot for babbling "...on to the White House!" And it was particularly silly of her to say SD ended the primary while the polls were still open in Montana. She's playing hardball at a time when she should have been more concilliatory. I have no doubt now that she wants that VP spot. I don't know how Obama is going to react. Many of her supporters are adamant about withholding their support. And it's not just fringe Hillary supporters. I'm not even sure my wife will vote for Obama. When I asked her if she'd really vote for McCain she said, "No, I just won't vote."
If he wants to stand up to her and deny her the VP spot he has to be smart about it. He can't publicly rule her out right now. He's got to wait until sometime in July and let passions cool down. In a few weeks he can get a sense of where her supporters are and then make a decision. If he can get her to campaign for him in the meantime that would be a huge plus.
Make no mistake, she CAN torpedo him. Reagan did it to Ford in 76. Ford was trailing Carter by almost 20 points but ended up losing the popular vote by around 3 points. Reagan could have probably turned a couple of key states for Ford and won that election but he sat on his hands and refused to campaign for him down the stretch. He sabotaged him and was there ready and waiting 4 years later. HC is a loyal Democrat, but she's also shrewd and ambitous enough to pull something like that off. I just hope she doesn't attempt it.
I've heard rumors that Hillary doesn't actually want to be VP on Obama's ticket, but that she wants to be asked and have the first opportunity to turn it down. Essentially, she wants it to be a gesture of good will from Obama, and a way to hopefully mend some of the rift between the supporters of the two campaigns, but will politely turn it down. On the flip side, supposedly Obama really has no interest in Hillary being his VP, and will only offer it to her if he gets assurances that she will indeed turn it down.
Again, these are just the rumors I've heard floating around the blogosphere. But, given the bad blood that has existed between the two at times, and that it's pretty clear that Obama wants to make a clean break from the Clinton Years of the Democratic Party, it would seem to be a very distinct possibility.
I've also heard Michelle Obama can't stand the Clinton's and you better believe her husband hears it over the morning newspaper / coffee...
What I don't understand though, why would the Clinton campaign announce she is willing to join the ticket as VP if she is going to reject it anyhow? I have hard time believing she would do such theatrics just to mend the rift. The only way that makes sense is if she knows she would not be offered the position, and is trying to make Obama look bad. Of course, a lot of the things Clinton did this campaign did not make any sense, so who knows.I've heard rumors that Hillary doesn't actually want to be VP on Obama's ticket, but that she wants to be asked and have the first opportunity to turn it down.
I do believe that rumour. She is an inconvenience. All the baggage and the negative campaigning makes her a poisoned pill to swallow in the fall. It does not flow well with his message of change. Clinton even said McCain would be a better commander in chief. How can you have a running mate thinking the republican candidate is better? On the other hand, how can Obama unify the party without offering her the #2 runner up with so many democrats (about 50% to be exact) wanting it? A sizable portion of the democrats are going to be upset (I guess about 20% will either sit home or vote for McCain. It is an unpleasant dilemma.On the flip side, supposedly Obama really has no interest in Hillary being his VP, and will only offer it to her if he gets assurances that she will indeed turn it down.
I think picking someone else than Clinton is the lesser evil though, because Clinton is like the antichrist for some people, particularly the independents sitting on the fence, and even some Obama supporters can't stand her.
This is one of the reasons I think Sebelius would be good choice as VP, because then the female demographic would get a woman in the White House, but without the controversy. Besides gender considerations, Sebelius is simply a solid VP candidate. I heard a lot of complaints on the lack of name recognizability though. My take on this is, you become known as VP candidate whether you want it or not. I can bet you, no one is going to ignore her. She does stand out. And she got a clean slate. The the dirt diggers at Fox news will have a hard time finding any mud to sling at her.
While I don't think Obama will offer Clinton VP, he might offer her some other position, saying "she will have some role in my administration". That way, he can campaign without having her on the presidential debates, and give the Clinton supporters a carrot to vote for him.
Edit: As far as other candidates go (other than Sebelius). Personally, I like John Edwards, he would fit perfectly with Obama's campaign. Edwards is almost as believable as Obama in his message for change, and he polls very well. Problem is, I don't think Edwards wants to run as VP candidate any more, I think he even said as much. I also like Bloomberg, but he would not resonate well with the working class demographic, which Obama already struggles with. Then there are various heavyweight veterans like Biden, Dodd, Richardson. While those are very experienced, it does not strike me as a good idea having political furniture on the ticket if you are going to claim you want to change Washington.
Last edited by Yog; Jun 4th, 2008 at 01:37:30 PM.
If that's true, that she wants to be asked and then she'll turn it down, then it's rather arrogant. Instead of making last night a celebration of something historic, she tried to make it about HER. She's really starting to get slammed by a lot of democrats today. I don't think it's any accident that you're seeing so many SD's switch their vote from Clinton to Obama. I think it's their way of showing their displeasure with her speech last night. And if she's going to backtrack now and say that her signaling she'd accept the VP as a kind of concession, I'm sorry, but that's not good enough. If she wants to make a public show of turning down the VP spot to encourage her supporters to forgive Obama then they're other ways of doing it. You concede and then you arrange things behind the scenes. Even if she waits until tomorrow to concede it still produces another news cycle where Dems are seen fighting each other and she comes across as a sore loser. I know the longer she takes to concede the more it irks me and I'm not a Hillary basher.
I personally think Obama would be best served by going with someone like Bill Richardson as his VP (bring in Latino votes, strong foreign policy cred), or maybe even a dark horse like Evan Bayh (good national security cred) to help counter McCain's strengths in the general election.
There's probably going to be some token discussion between Obama and Clinton about the VP spot, but I seriously doubt that Hillary will end up on the ticket. I could see Obama giving her a prime time speech slot at the Democratic Convention as a door prize, but that's as far as it will go.
I don't think she will get VP. If I were Obama I offer her a chance at the Supreme Court (one of those old guys are going to retire one of these days). For VP I say Richardson would be a good choice. Oh it does look like she is going to concede and endorse Obama Friday if you believe the news reports.
Well, she's finally calling it quits. This Saturday she'll officially endorse Obama. But make no mistake, Hillary got slapped down today. There were a couple of conference calls today with key Democrats, many of them of them supporters of Hillary, and they almost unanimously expressed displeasure with her speech last night. Without those calls she might have dragged this out for a couple of weeks. A lot of Dems were particulary ticked off at McCulliffe for his inane "were going to the White House!" comment when he introduced her.
I really think that her speech last night really hurt her VP chances. A lot of Dems were ticked off that she got so much coverage today when it should have been a day celebrating the party's nominee. I wonder how long it will take for HIllary supporters to cool down. I wonder just how many of them will stay home. I'm trying to figure out how to sell Obama to my own wife!
If she campaigns for him that should help. As far as selling it to your wife tell her how bad McCain will be for the country. Try to argue that he will ruin women's rights. Also point out that Obama and Hillary share just about the same ideology and goals (except health care).
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