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Just to split this off from The Council thread, as this has nothing really to do with the council. We can place articles detailing the way the Wheel works, how you get there, etc etc in here and then put them in the wiki also.
We have a Jedi Enclave wiki page and a Wheel wiki page, I would imagine these things could go in either page?
0700 - Breakfast in the mess. Some padawans may be responsible for helping make meals, this can rotate around. So chores a half hour before and a half hour after meals (for clean up as well)
0830 - First group class (example: healing with Serena Laran on board her freighter)
1000 - Chores/Duties (master assigned OR their job with the crew of the Challenger)
1200 - Lunch
1330 - Non-Force related class (piloting with Kelly Perris?)
1500 - Second group class (Lightsaber technique with Loki)
1700 - Free time or other duties on the Wheel
1800 - Dinner
1930 - Free time or personal training with master
2200 - lights out
This is just an example and for helping people who RP padawans to have more texture to add to their RPs.
FYI - Jaden Luka is the "official" Training Officer (ie. that's his job title). That doesn't mean he's the only person who could train pilots... he's just the one most likely to. :)
I believe The Wheel wiki page is information on the Wheel itself (ships, etc), whereas The Enclave is the wiki page for the roleplay group / faction. This information would be better on The Enclave page, I think.
Do we need to be quite so specific as an "example timetable", though? Something that exacting isn't very flexible... and some Padawans are a bit too grown up to have a "lights out" time. ;)
It might be more helpful to just have a list of possible subjects, and some examples of the people who might be teaching it. For example -
Lightsaber Training
Abarai Loki, Inyos Aamoran
Force Healing
Serena Laran, Ilias Nytrau
Force Sensitivity
Daria Nytherciria, Serena Laran, Zem Vymes
Jedi History / Philosophy / Wisdom
Halajin Rabeak, Inyos Aamoran, Zem Vymes
Starfighter Piloting
Jaden Luka, Rogue Group
Ground Combat
Charlotte Tur'enne, Amos Iakona
First Aid
Ilias Nytrau, Barton Henning
Maintenance & Damage Control
Chrys Atriedes, Challenger Ground Crew
Having a selection of people per subject makes it easier for a Padawan to find someone who is currently active/posting if they want to do a thread. There's also no reason that certain Jedi couldn't teach more than one subject.
Also, if we're looking at non-Force related teaching as well (which I believe you guys discussed last night), there may be some Padawans with useful skills that they can impart to others... and there may be some Knights who could stand to learn them.
Amos Iakona for example was a Scout Trooper and in SpecForce; Corell Capstan has worked on freighters; and Barton Henning is both a Doctor and a freighter Captain.
Zeke is a telekinesis specialist and passable Ataru practitioner. On the non-Force side of things, he knows the ins and outs of the shipping trade, so he can help make supply runs and play Jedi Ferry if he has a suitable ship. Too bad Wei's not gonna reach the wheel for a while; he'd make a killer lightsaber and boost instructor.
Unfortunately, I'm not really sure what's going on with most of our non-Force-sensitives. Most of the ones I've seen are extremely combat-oriented. Not sure where their civilian skills would lie without running around polling everybody. Though, for a young Padawan stationed on Novgorod, a first-aid lesson with Vek Vek might be an interesting take on an old subject. :lol
Heh! Hal being called on for "wisdom," that's a good one! Though actually he's a pretty competent instructor, and is a wealth of information about Jedi History, compared to most of our crew.
He's also pretty handy with a lightsaber, but I think he'd be better at "Force Combat" than just lightsaber training. He's an odd duck, in that regard, but incredibly effective. Many of his Force abilities are actually augmented or enhanced natural abilities, so they're more passive than active effects.
Morgan can teach a lot of practical skills, regarding anything electronic (droids, power systems, slicing, etc) and hard mechanics. He's also incredibly adept at defeating security systems. He's also a good brawler, but for that, you should call his mamma instead. He's not the best teacher for most Force related abilities because his is so specialized. Maybe only for a different perspective.
Adia can teach:
Hand to Hand combat
Blaster skills (of any type)
Combined arms
Espionage (basic security systems, basic data retrieval, stealth skills)
Basic piloting
Field medicine
Lightsaber combat. Strictly speaking, Loki is probably a better duelist but Adia has more combat experience with people trying to kill her.
(LOL)Mili could teach(LOL):
Crazy and Darkside 101 to advanced specializations, she'll even grant you a minor is Sith Magicks.
It's worth bearing in mind that in order to teach the Jedi on the Wheel, you actually have to be on the Wheel.
Wouldn't that make it a bit tricky for Morgan to teach people? Or is he going to teach by holo-presence? :mneh
My recommendation for this aspect of the 'guide' would be that it is actually a thread here, in 'The Wheel' forum. If you have a character who is capable of and happy to offer lessons in [whatever], you can make a post in that thread (as that character) providing an explanation of what you can offer.
You can also then edit in and out your own availability as and when is necessary. Characters like Morgan and Barton who spend more of their time away from the Wheel than on it can also point this out in their post, so that potential trainees are aware that their lessons will probably be conducted aboard a freighter or wherever.
I think this was something that people brought up as being potentially useful, in the chat. It's just an example of course, but even adults might have a curfew for when they have to go to bed.Quote:
Do we need to be quite so specific as an "example timetable", though? Something that exacting isn't very flexible... and some Padawans are a bit too grown up to have a "lights out" time.
It seems that it would be useful in the sense that if you're wanting to write a post during a certain time of 'day', then you'll have a bit more of a grounded idea of where folks may be, not to mention it has the possibility of opening up some fun observational writing.
Certainly it's not anything that needs to be super-specific, as Jace pointed out, but a loose outline of what times things generally happen would allow some fun structure to be injected.
And let's not forget, 'lights out' doesn't necessarily mean anyone actually follows that rule ^_-
The 'timetable/schedule' is - like a lot of what we're talking about right now - just putting into writing what an RPer could assume, make up, or find out by talking to other RPers. So in that sense, a lot of what is going to go into this guide might seem rather specific or prescriptive.. but it's just fodder for peoples imagination, not a set of rules to be followed.
Oh I know they aren't set rules. My last bit was mostly tongue in cheek.
Yeah I did sort of say the schedule was just for added background information, and it certainly isn't something that a padawan's master can't supersede in the case that they actually want to RP with their padawhatsits.
I think the thing that's making me uncomfortable is that having a timetable makes it feel like we're school kids. Most of the Padawans are grown adults.
On top of that, working a couple of hours a day seems a bit... lazy? That's not even enough time to work for a whole shift. Sure, an extra pair of hands is nice, but if they're only around for part of the ship, it's gonna be pretty hard for Alliance people to make use of them.
What if instead, we split the day into six "blocks"?
Two blocks are for sleeping. If you sleep eight hours, fair enough... if you sleep less, lucky you, because you get some extra free time.
Two blocks are for Jedi training. Lessons would take maybe two hours, so there's space either side of that for meals, relaxing, and riding the Space Bus to wherever you need to go.
One block is for working. If you're helping out on the Challenger, four hours is enough time to do a full shift. (One of the common Navy shift patterns has people working for two four-hour shifts a day)
The remaining shift is for vocational training, time with your Master, academic study, or going on spy missions with your wife. It isn't necessarily the same thing every day. Again, if lessons are two hours (ish), there's still time in here for meals.
Why is this better?
Mathematically speaking, you've got a lot more options for when you work, and when you sleep. Even if Jedi lessons were only offered in Block 2 and Block 5, you can still choose to sleep either "overnight" (6-1), or "during the day" (3-4). That gives you the opportunity to work the night shift on the Challenger. You've also got a total of four potential timeslots in which you can have duties.
Also, we could add more flexibility if there were four lessons every day, and the Padawans picked two. Maybe Loki teaches lightsabers in Block 2 and 3, while Serena teaches Healing in Block 4 and 5: you could have lessons in 2/4, 2/5, 3/4, and 3/5... four different combinations. Or, Loki could teach Lightsabers on Tuesdays and Thursdays: you could not work on the Challenger on a Thursday and have three (maybe even four) lessons, giving you the whole of Tuesday off.
Ignoring the maths, it's vague and flexible. You're unlikely to have to explicity state things beyond "I had two lessons today", so you can easily fudge things to fit with whatever you happen to be doing. Plus: that fudge factor would make it easier to conveniently be helping out on the flight deck during a space battle - it'd be a bit odd if every battle we had took place between 1000 and 1200. ;)
This is starting to get a little bit too complicated for me.
Câlisse, c'est pas compliquée, pas de tout. C'est juste un p'tit peu des mathematiques. Utilisez votre tête.
Ah, zut alors. J'ai oublié. T'comprends pas la langue français. Je vais... :lol
Let's get to the point, here. A somewhat traditional and schoolish timetable is too strict. The essence of what Jace is suggesting (and I do like it, let me say!) is a basis for how the Jedi work out their schedule for themselves, in a way that suits their character, their habits and works for the Wheel as a whole so that the best number of personnel are available when needed (and sometimes, some of us get yanked during shut eye, c'est la vie!). So we don't have to necessarily stress at all over missing out on any areas of growth for our characters.
People like Ilias, for example, sleep three hours a night, if at all, for the simple fact of not needing much sleep. His schedule is able to accomodate those who are 'night owls', as well as 'early birds' and those with more 'normal' waking hours. Others of us are more human and much more different in their requirements, thus needing to keep different schedules. It is in fact a huge assumption we're making that everyone is awake and available for all things at precisely the same time.
We can have more realism with this and a more diverse experience. Don't knock it 'til you try it. ;)
Of course, if I'm making aucun sense, just kick me in the trousers. :lol
I do speak a little French :) and I understand the theory behind the idea. I'm just not sure why we need to tell RPers this kind of information? I feel like we're getting hung up on the example timetable that Serena posted, which was just an incredibly rough idea of what a Padawan might be doing on any given day aboard the Wheel. Everyone's schedule is going to be different, naturally.
But if you want to use some kind of timetable do it, go for it. Start using it for your characters and begin reaping the benefits! I am sure it will work for some people, but it's just not for me.
By that same logic, do we need to tell roleplayers an "example" timetable at all?
Saying "you get two lessons and you work one shift" is presumably all the information they need.
I don't think we do, no. Like I say, I feel like we are getting hung up on a non-issue.
The schedule was just an example. We can scrap it entirely, it was only thought up in the first place because people were complaining that they didn't know what to do with their characters.
Please don't get hung up on it, I'll delete it if it's just causing confusion.
I think we're just using information that just explains what life is like in the Wheel and what options are. I think getting too overly detailed makes it appear too rigid and over complicated. Also, where the hell am I in that list :p
But a general idea of who does what, and whom to go to for information/training/rp stuff related to what they wish to do is good.
I am rather curious.
What ships are in the Wheel as it stands now?
The Alliance has the Challenger (Venator), Valiant (MC40) and Intrepid (Nebulon-B).
There's also the Whaladon for the Jedi.
We've implied that there are more (we're always talking about "a convoy" or "a fleet") but we've never actually pinned down what those craft were.
There is a list in the stickied thread in the Wheel forum.
Not a very complete one though - one of the Alliance military ships is missing for starters... and four ships isn't much of a convoy. :\
We don't need more though, no matter what it looks like as a 'convoy' because there simply aren't enough Jedi. IMO. Well. Except for the herdship we already agreed to add?
This is something else that has been discussed and discussed in the past, with the consensus being if you want to RP that there's another ship in the Wheel, then just do it.
Looking at that list, it doesn't look too bad as it stands now. Though, heh, you might have to take Emerald Knight off of it ^_^;
With the three Alliance cruisers and the planned addition of this herdship, it seems like those four would make a decent backbone, with the other smaller personal craft about to fill out the rest of the body. There is more I'm thinking, but I don't want to clutter this up with too much talk over the ships in the Wheel since there's already a thread for that.
Though, I have been toying with the idea of bringing MMU to the Wheel as well, so that would be another ship as well.
If there are only a few dozen Jedi though, and absolutely no other ships at all... isn't having the Whaladon in the first place a bit daft?
Logically (and tactically) speaking, surely the Alliance would have an easier job protecting that small a number of Jedi if they were living on a military vessel? Protecting yourself is surely easier than protecting an unarmed freighter.
I understand why, from a story perspective, we have the Whaladon. I'm just not sure that four ships fits a) with what's logical, and b) with the "dozens of ships" people have described in their arrival posts, the space battle we had, etc.
I realise that we aren't fleeting. We don't need to count beans. But capturing the same flavour as we've committed to post form would be nice, IMO.
*
Some thoughts other non-combat ships that we might possibly have:
- A fuel tanker or refinery, to refuel our fighters / shuttles / personal freighters.
- We're only just getting a herd ship to grow fresh food. Where did we get food from before, and where was it stored? Is it all on the Challenger, or is there a "granary" ship? (NB. ship with food stores, rather than a bread ship with seeds in) ;)
- We did a big salvage thread a while back. Are all of our salvage stores on the Challenger, or is there a dedicated freighter carrying spare parts / etc?
- We're constantly jumping to new locations in order to remain on the move. Do we send ships from our escort (Valiant, fighters, a freighter, etc), or do we have a dedicated scout ship?
- We need to constantly monitor where Imperial fleet activity is, so we don't accidentally jump on top of an Imperial patrol. We also need a way of covertly communicating our location to the Alliance, so that we know where people are. Do we have a dedicated ship to "listen in" on the Empire and talk secretly to Alliance Intel?
Edit:
And yes, the Emerald Knight does need to come off the listy doodad now. ^_^;
That was totally s'Ilancy's fault. Lousy gunner. :grumble
All ships have places to store food, and their 'consumables' are listed in their stats. I don't think food storage is something we need to worry about. There should be food on each ship.
The Jedi might be safer on a dedicated military ship but they want some independence from the Alliance. Getting rid of the Whaladon would be silly.
We got food from X-planet on Y-trip after Z-jump to B-sector last week. Weren't you there? (Also, C-freighter brought in more foodstuffs on a supply run the other day.) This isn't something that's a big deal either. It happens. It becomes a big deal if someone wants to do an RP around a resupply trip, in which case they should do so.
Storing salvage parts and bits and pieces should be split as evenly as possible between all the ships. If they're under attack and the 'salvage storage' ship gets blown up, well then we're shit outta luck. Again, salvage isn't a big deal unless we have engineers RPing daily repairs, in which case each ship should have their own stores of appropriate parts gathered from resupply runs or salvage operations. imo.
How the jumps happen would be a Tyree decision. So, up to you I guess. ;) You could send a couple X-Wings ahead to scout, it's not like the Rogues do much beside drink and fornicate.
The idea was/is that the Wheel stays off all known trade routes for the most part, and jumps into black space. Keeping track of Imperial locations is a good idea regardless and I guess that Challenger uses their communication maguffin to covertly get information to and from Intelligence.
The more 'dedicated ships' the Alliance throws at this = a TON more actual Rebel soldiers and stuff taken off the front lines. I don't think we need more Rebel ships, but that's just my opinion. Any more and we're talking a ludicrious amount of extra personnel. We have other ships and freighters in the convoy and these personal ships can be used to scout the next jump location on a rotating schedule or something. Maybe?
With regards to food supply, Barton spends pretty much all of his time with the Alliance Support Services ferrying that kind of stuff to and fro to the Wheel :) I am working on the basis that there are also other freighters from the Support Services doing something similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serena Laran
We got food from X-planet by jumping into black space, huh? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Serena Laran
I get what you people are saying. And for the most part, I would agree. We probably can fudge explanations, and go through every example that I listed and come up with a reason that we don't need one on a case-by-case basis.
But we keep talking about how there are lots of ships in posts. I think it was Jenny who posted this really awesome and poetic description of all of the ships. We also had a whole bunch of ships taking ages to jump out during that mission where Charley's Star Destroyer guy stumbled across us, and there are a bunch of other posts out there written by a bunch of people... who either state or imply that we've got a convoy with more than four ships in it.
We seem to be imagining that this is like Battlestar, and writing it as such. I'm suggesting these things not because we need them, but because I'm trying to make sure that the Wheel we're describing in our OOC lists and notes matches the Wheel we're describing in our IC posts.
Then perhaps people should tone down their descriptions of the lots of ships. :p That seems to be the simplest solution. ;)
edit: I guess my response to your point and not your examples is that I don't think we need to add more ships, and I don't think it makes sense for the Rebels to dedicate more resources to this while they're still fighting a war they probably can't win. HOWEVER if you/others want to say "we have a scout frigate and a salvage holding barge and a fuel tanker in the convoy" then go for it. I don't have an extremely strong opinion on the matter. I just thought sharing my thoughts in the discussion was a good idea.
I don't think that either option is particularly complicated. And at least adding a couple of NPC ships doesn't disregard people's writing - I think doing that would be a bit rude.
Not disregard, just change it in the future. :p We're still not going to have dozens of ships no matter what we do, but it makes sense now with the extra extra security that superfluous ships and their crews may have been sent away. That would explain the difference for anyone who wanted to do so.
edit: the general consensus that *I* feel from most people is that we should just DO WHAT WE WANT - so if Jace/Tyree thinks there should be more ships then just say there are. The majority of Jedi Rpers don't care strongly one way or another. If they do they will post here and say so of course take that into consideration.
The activity level of RPing earlier this month was tremendous and we didn't need any of this minutia in place to do that. In fact I think that overthinking and bogging us down in trying to all agree on x-amount of ships and other logistics actually saps the will to post from some of us. The amount of posts are actually going down, and I don't think it's a coincidence.
The Wheel wiki needs updating and people who want to can do that and add in all the logistics and stuff they want. I've been contributing and offering ideas (like the ill-fated schedule that we hate) because I thought that's what people wanted, but really, it's been working fine without all the fluff. And that's what it is, just extra texture for RPs. So the people who care about it should work it out and the people who don't feel strongly about it will be sitting it out and just going with what is figured out by the others. I don't feel strongly about this, but I'm trying to help out and contribute the best I can. Perhaps I should just take a seat and let those who do go forward with their ideas.... and I think I shall. :)
Having a two frigates defending just the Whaladon would be overkill. Having a Star Destroyer as well is just plain stupid. It does not make any logical sense, and I am extremely uncomfortable with it. If the Alliance doesn't have the resources to spare a few crummy freighters or a fuel tanker, how do they have the resources to spare a whole Star Destroyer?
Everyone else seems to think differently though, so I suppose I'll just have to drop the matter, and give things a serious rethink.
Just add them. :) Now we have a few more freighters and a fuel tanker! Voila! :D
They should only be added if people agree that we need them - majority consensus, and all that.
That doesn't seem to be the case, so we just won't add them. It's fine. Leave everything as it is.
I'll just come up with a way to make myself comfortable with it.
I'm pretty sure waiting for input from some other people would be a good choice, too. :)
It's fine to have support ships. I've always assumed there are a few, even if they're only scenery. The important thing to make sure is that the wheel doesn't run out of poppadoms and lager
I can totally see the Alliance having sent the Wheel a few scrounged up and repurposed freighters that'd seen better days. It would certainly explain all of the endless 'get us these parts so we can fix this' requests that I wrote in to s'Il's posts while she was on Challenger.
Once Hal finds out the results of some investments he made back in his day, another ship is going to be added to the Wheel. =) And that'll mean several more Nehantites running around, because he's brand-loyal.