Plot Idea: Invasion of Hutt Space

[Damien Kantrael]

Preface: This is a discussion thread for a idea. Nothing is set is stone. Nothing has been finalized. It is the exploration of a plot idea to see if it is viable. Nothing has been established In Character.

The Cabal is a shadowy organization that is the combination of three separatist movements lead by Damien Kantrael, Vel Aath, and Tear. They each have their own individual goals but together are moving toward a common goal of gaining more galactic control and power by expanding their influence. One particular avenue is that of the criminal underground which would pit them against the current overlords; the Hutts and their criminal Cartel(s). Rather than fight the Hutts in the shadows they could attack them head on, invading Hutt Space with the goal of both destabilizing one of their greatest opponents while also seizing their territories for themselves.

A plan of subterfuge is the reigning method of attack: (Subject to change)


Tear is currently manufacturing and dealing a new drug called "Bliss" that has a euphoric high combined with regenerative qualities. Tear has negotiated our distribution to Black Sun, who has in turn negotiated some distribution to Tenloss. In short, the drug is getting around especially due to it's healing qualities in a galaxy currently struggling to match the demand for kalto and bacta.
With his connections with and through Black Sun, Tear will arrange a meeting with Hutt dignitaries, likely Clan Leaders and the heads of criminal organizations, in order to market his drug to them personally. Lured under the false pretense they will then be captured, slaughtered, or forced into cooperation. Think Red Wedding. A slaughter that comes out of nowhere.
Afterwards, with their foot in the door so to say, they will begin expanding outward using their combined forces as well as the Executor's Suicide Squad, intent on seizing more Hutt worlds by force if resisted, or annexing them into their growing beachhead if they are willing to swear allegiance.

It's entirely possible that there are Hutts already on the Cabal's side, such as small time clans willing to risk it all to grow their own power bases by destroying and/or consuming other clans. The final scope and results of this conflict at not being pre-established. It's entirely possible that this plan will never happen based on the logistics, or if it does it's possible that the Cabal fails at the gate and retreats. This thread is to discuss the idea and viability of the plot to see if it could be an interesting story arc to operate.

Naturally everyone is welcome to add to the discussion and involve their characters.

[Ambassador Wrath]

I'm a little concerned about the idea of a Red Wedding style execution of clan leaders, particularly since I am one. ;)

As you can see from the join date, Rath is (Wrath is what basic-speakers call him) a character that I've had for a while, but am only just in the last few weeks getting traction with - so you can probably understand why an upset to the Hutt Cartel status quo has me a little unsettled!

For context - Rath Ouishii Dae is the head of the Ouishii Kajidic; the same one that Okar the Fabulous is part of. His status as an Ambassador is "mostly" legitimate: he picked the title for himself, but the Hutt Cartel is content to let him fill that role so no one else has to (who wants to be a diplomat, when you can just extort things?). His main role is to act as a middleman, whether that's between foreign governments and the leadership of the Hutt Cartel, between foreign businesses and particular Hutts, or between his corporate empire (the Rath Cartel) and everyone else. He has a habit of gobbling up small-to-medium businesses and adding them to the larger whole. Most of his business holdings fall under the Ubrikkian Industries umbrella (which he acquired from Kuat Drive Yards post-Treaty), who have a presence within the Corporate Sector stuff and things on Cloud City. He currently has Czerka Arms and Rothana Heavy Engineering pitching themselves as potential military contractors to the Alliance of Free Planets, and if that goes well he'll be looking to set up an embassy on Jovan Station. There's also a few other things in his sphere of influence, like the Shell Hutts, a few leftovers from the Zann Consortium, and a company that holds the patents to the Separatist Droid Army but can't legally manufacture them (because of Imperial sanctions).

A full on collapse or overthrow of the Hutt Cartel probably wouldn't jive all that well with what I'm trying to do with the character: can't brand yourself as an Ambassador if there's no government to represent, after all. It's possible that he would be interested in doing business with the Cabal, but it really depends on just how much genocide, slaughter, and disruption to his affairs the Cabal intends. He could just as easily try to leverage his influence to have the Alliance respond to these "war crimes" against the Hutt people. Neither role is one that particularly leaps out as fitting with the direction I wanted to take the character, but I'm not sure he's in a position where he could "sit this one out" either, if the invasion progresses to any significant extent.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I am not a fan of Hutt space being taken over or the Clan leaders being slaughtered. It would throw the third largest section of space into total chaos. Also, other Hutts would just rise out of the Clans and assume leadership, plus be super pissed at your little Cabal. Because your Cabal is, frankly, little.

Taking over a single Clan, on the other hand, sounds more manageable.

[Droo]

I'm going to try to not go on for too long, here, but I have had a few days to consider this discussion (including the previous thread), and I have to admit that I have some significant reservations about this plan. And - full disclosure - I don't play a Hutt character, or anyone in anyway associated with the Hutt Cartel, and I don't think that should matter, either.

If you look at the galaxy map, it's clear that Hutt space is the third largest controlled region in the galaxy. The other two are owned, naturally, by the Empire and the Alliance. If we look at the Hapes Consortium, and all the Onderon shenanigans, we can see that it has taken Jenny et al. years to make significant advances on their characters' respective power bases. Much smaller power bases, at that. To jump ahead, and perform the coup de grace first ignores this precedent. Yes, there will be fallout, yes, there will be other threads, stories, and battles, but the killing stroke has already been dealt. I do not think this is a fair way to approach this. Such a significant change to the political landscape, such a huge change of power, it should be earned. Personally, I don't feel like this respects that sentiment. I don't feel like this plan appreciates the scale of what it is setting out to accomplish.

And, yes, in the previous thread, Jace raised the point that this would be akin to a foreign power suddenly invading Mexico, out of the blue. I think this is an apt analogy that should highlight some of the immediate concerns with the plan. A move like that would spark a war that would almost certainly unhinge the current Cold War status quo. I am not against upsetting the status quo. In fact, I encourage it, but on a scale as large and as sudden as this? It would throw too much of what we'd worked towards into disarray.

What I would suggest is starting smaller. Have the Cabal lean on a young, ruthless, and ambitious Hutt, to overthrow a Hutt clan instead. They will provide the underhandedness and the muscle, and in turn, he provides them with a foot inside the door. The clan becomes a key distributer of Bliss, and provides a platform to forge alliances (and consequently betray) competing Hutt clans. The transition could be subtle enough to stay under the radar of the Alliance, and before they know it, the other Hutt clans will be faced with a rival that is too big and too strong for them to oppose alone. Then the Alliance can get involved, and that will create a fertile environment for story-telling.

[Captain Untouchable]

Just spitballing here... but have you considered targetting the Chiss Ascendancy instead?

Being on the opposite side of the galaxy, an invasion or conquest on the Ascendancy wouldn't adversely impact the Alliance at all. It could have an impact on the Empire, but the Empire would probably benefit from a big storyline to focus on; but by the same token, the Ascendancy is isolated enough that if the Empire doesn't (or isn't able to) react in a big way, it won't be at all jarring. Also, while we do have some Chiss characters on the forums, to my knowledge they are all people who have left the Ascendancy behind, so shouldn't be adversely affected by it.

Thematically, it might be a better fit as well. From what I've heard from Vince, some sort of Eastern Front vibe is what you guys are after, and the Chiss are the perfect candidates for that. You have a force of defenders who might be less advanced, but they're warriors and they know how to fight on their home turf; versus an enemy that can roll in with Nazi war machines, dragons created by Sith Alchemy, and all that stuff. It's a prime backdrop for some Game of Thrones style war threads. On top of that, the Chiss have a long history of association (in both the EU and on Fans) with the Galactic Empire, the Sith Empire, and all that jazz - which I think actually suits Tear better than the Hutts. If/when the Chiss are subjugated, the prospect of the Executor revealing (if he so chooses) that he has secured the loyalty of the Chiss Ascendancy to aid the Empire is a lot more natural, and opens up more options than having the Hutts surrounded would.

Meeting with Chiss leadership under the pretence of a negotiation, and then executing them is still an opening gambit that would work on that side of the galaxy... and while sure, the Chiss aren't necessarily going to be drawn in by the prospect of selling a new designer drug, you could just as easily pitch it as "this will make your warriors more formidable". It could potentially turn the Chiss into the Jem'Hadar: an army whose loyalty is ensured because without the drug you got them addicted to, they will die.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

There's still a problem with a possibly unearned takeover of an entire region of space. You could say you were taking over a made up consortium in the Unknown Regions but you'd still be three people swooping in and suddenly having a large, empire-threatening, cold-war-upending power base under your belt. If it were properly RPed out it could work, but the balance of power in the galaxy is tricky and it works as is now because it's two powers in a stand off.

I don't want to throw out the cold war.

[Damien Kantrael]

We certainly appreciate all the feedback and suggestions.

I know we did have some ideas for things to do with the Chiss. We will investigate that option and see if there is anything that interests us in that direction.

[Park Kraken]

Highly unlikely IMO that you could get all of the clan leaders into a single meeting, even if it was over a groundbreaking (or shall we say spacebreaking? ;) ) new drug. A more likely scenario would be getting them to send their majordomo's to the meeting, which could then be assassinated. The Cabal could then pit the Hutts against each other, provoking open warfare between the clans. The Cabal could even rent out their armed forces as mercenaries (since the Hutts prefer to hire such to fight their battles for them) and gain both valuable finances and experience in dealing with the Hutts, learning about their strengths and weaknesses. This could culminate in the Cabal making their first public move and eliminating whichever Hutt Clan was the most weakened by the conflict, consolidating their beachhead (or perhaps spacehead? ;) ) in Hutt Space.

[Vince]

Okay, since I write Vel Aath and she's a part of this mess, I'd like to clear up a few things. I want to make clear I am not speaking for or against anyone, but am outlining my thought processes in saying why these ideas are coming to me and Tear and Damien in response to some of the thoughts you guys have been putting out here.

1. The Cabal is not a faction. The Cabal is a collection of villains who are responding to the current status quo developing. Vel Aath's own desire is to upend the Cold War and turn the galaxy into a warzone. As of now it's only three characters written by people who have other things going on RP wise as well, but none of this is contrary to what would organically happen from previous events. I'm considering a 'faction' to be an organization meant to endure and provide multiple avenues of storytelling through institutional lines, governmental lines, and political lines of thinking. The Cabal is a temporary measure, not "The Sith Order" rebranded.

2. This is a not a 'power grab'. The idea of us simply being able to write the very premise of this quickly enough to say "Well, it's already done, so tough" is laughable. We have not yet even formed the Cabal itself on the boards. Before anything else can happen, we'd have to write out that. I have also stated my desires for Vel Aath to others before, and suddenly owning the Hutt territories does nothing for a Villainess attempting to organize her own evil... uh, organization. Tear is Executor of the Empire and basically needs to be unbeatable and have a chance for a Bond Villain monologue before he can be taken out, and Damien's freakish cult isn't half as freakishly horrific as it could be. Our stories are far from stable enough to justify such a thing happening unless we buckled down and ironed everything out and that would take at least a month, not including the fact that we are aware of what such a development would do to the Cold War (which is why Vel Aath would do it in the first place) and would discuss this with everyone on the boards. Keeping it short, we aren't anywhere close to doing this. The idea of the Hutt invasion is the most logical and organic development from what we've done before, and the succession of events leading up to the "surprise blitzkrieg" would be more than long enough to allow for worthwhile storytelling and planning for responses and such.

3. Continuing from the previous points, everything I've done with Vel Aath is to make her worth beating. To be honest, our villains need to be worth beating or whatever we (by that I mean whatever I) write is crap. There are some seriously awesome heroes, anti-heroes, bastards, and other villains who require antagonist of a higher quality, and I intend to give you all at least one if not two or more. But in order for this to happen, our villains need to do things with actual consequences, especially since I intend my villains to be villains to more than just my own 'good' characters. There has to be an actual danger to the Villains or else where is the conflict? Where is the motivation? It would suck to put so much work into these characters only to have their very themes stymied or beaten due to inertia. What I'm planning on and what would make me the happiest is to build a storyline where The Empire, Alliance, and others, like the Jedi and the Imperial Knights have to work together to beat the Big Bad, like Charley's Vanguards. Vel Aath would not go to Chiss space in the middle of nowhere when she can foment unrest and conflict much more easily and make it widespread by targeting Hutts and blaming it on the Empire. I'm not trying to make Vel Aath more powerful just so she can be powerful. I want that moment of her defeat to be earned by both herself and the hero(es) who do it to be sweet, cathartic, and "FUCK YEAH TAKE IT BITCH DIE!"

That can't happen if she hasn't looked at others and said, 'I'll just go over into this nowhere area and stay there and let implications do the threatening for me'.

I still have plans for Atrapes being slain, because that's what I'd planned for him as well for the longest time. None of my characters are safe from the dreaded axe of "plot stimulating death + 5".

4. While other areas could also work, Hutt Space is ideal not only for the villains, but everyone else as well. Tangling in Hutt Space allows to the most participation and most storytelling from across the boards, from politics and fleeting to lone Jedi and smugglers struggling to understand what's going on around them. We can't get a better arena elsewhere, except maybe the Corporate Sector. That isn't to say that they couldn't work on the Chiss also, but by far the most writing not only from the Villains but from the heroes we intend to fight and taunt with pithy one-liners will take place in Hutt threads. No one will really care about the Chiss, or the Pykes, and that cannot make a good story, especially a collaborative one.

5. ...?

6. PROFIT!

I am not disregarding anyone's fears for their own potential character arcs, nor for their own established characters or potential for roleplaying. This is in no way meant to be an end to this discussion, or a catch-all answer to every problem. I only hope that since you understand where I am coming from in regards to why we have been throwing this idea around, the criticism and suggestions can be more constructive.

Suggestions and thoughts like why a blitzkrieg, how will such a small group have the power and resources to pull that off (EXCELLENT CRITICISM), and so on. Now please don't tear me apart in pulling this post down! I put a good half hour into writing this! :ohno

[Captain Untouchable]

I definitely appreciate you taking the time to explain your character and writer motivations, Vince. It makes it very clear where you are coming from, why you want to do this, and why you want to invade Hutt Space in particular.

Unfortunately, none of those are really sticking points. I'm pretty sure we all accept that you've got valid reasons for wanting to do this. The problem is that the community isn't entirely clear on what it is you actually want to do. You have a clear starting point (this drug meet / execution scenario), but after that things get hazy. You're going to launch a surprise blitzkrieg on Hutt Space, yet you've also made it clear that you're a small non-faction, so it's not entirely clear how you expect to achieve such a thing. You're going to annex some worlds, possibly lay siege to Nal Hutta, possibly overthrow the Hutt government, possibly replace it with a puppet regime... but at the same time, you're now saying that you don't actually expect that to come to pass, because some heroes will emerge to defeat your villains before all of that happens.

I appreciate that there's a difference between what your characters IC plan/expect to happen, versus what the writers OOC plan/expect to happen, but explaining at cross purposes makes for a very muddy and confusing situation. You're presenting this to the community so we can weigh in on whether we are for or against the idea, but you haven't really given us a clear idea of what happens if we are for this. You've sold us on why this storyline is valuable to the three of you, but we don't know "what's in it for us", and what ramifications and fallout are in store if we go along with it.

[Serasai Onashi]

Well, that would be because we aren't completely sure on what we want to do either, and ideas were being shared pell-mell according to the feedback we were receiving from three people with different thought-processes concerning their and others characters. Probably. I skimmed everything and missed a lot since crossed wires and misunderstandings are confusing to read at the best of times.

Tear's had the Hutt idea for a while, I've had the idea for a Cuban Missile Crisis of sorts for a while, and we knew we wanted to do something, and so Tear's plan was the chalk-on-blackboard basis we were going to go off of. We also knew that such a plan was going to be a big thing for the boards, so perhaps a bit too quickly, we decided to share out the basic plan of targeting the Hutts.

I don't want to retread too much ground here, so I'm just going to out and say that almost everything we've outlined thus far as the Hutt strike is up for tuning to maximum effectiveness. In essence I am asking you guys on the boards to help me craft an outline and knowledge of potential repercussions for actions so we can see what would work the best for everyone involved, since I myself don't know how things will go down after the fact.

I can't speak for Tear and Damien obviously, but as long as we have those clear beats and themes and a good progression of events, I'm good with this idea going down however it does, whether it's a successful blitzkrieg, an unsuccessful blitzkrieg, a campaign from outlying systems to dismantling Hutt Clans singly or piecemeal (my preferred option), or perhaps a three prong strategy of the Cabal going the Chiss/Pyke/Hutt route simultaneously.

I know I have thoughts for Vel Aath and Onashi some of which I've shared already: Onashi becoming a sort of General Grievous for the Cabal and being this mysterious and unknown army leader out in the fringes of Alliance and Hutt space; Vel Aath stirring trouble in Hutt territories and blaming it on everyone but herself, perhaps most notably the Empire, Alliance, or other cartels.

If you'd like it better, I can come back after a little huddle session with the other two maniacal overlords with a more concrete plan of action so we can discuss with a bit more surety.

[Ivy]

I completely understand that you guys haven't hammered the details out just yet, that you're squishing together a whole set of plans and desires, soliciting responses, etc...

But in the same spirit of you offering your writer/character motivations, I just wanted to help make it clear what the rest of us (in my understanding) are feeling a certain resistance to. All the articulate explanation in the world won't help if you end up addressing the wrong set of concerns. :)

[Serasai Onashi]

I completely understand that you guys haven't hammered the details out just yet, that you're squishing together a whole set of plans and desires, soliciting responses, etc...

But in the same spirit of you offering your writer/character motivations, I just wanted to help make it clear what the rest of us (in my understanding) are feeling a certain resistance to. All the articulate explanation in the world won't help if you end up addressing the wrong set of concerns. :)

It'll help me at least get things straightened out enough so I can make sense of what concerns are where and what can be done to allay them. If what I've addressed isn't the main concern, and the lack of a cohesive or coherent plan of action or story is, then I can get to work on clearing that up and getting us all to the fun part: plotting!