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Supreme Leader Xaanan
Dec 28th, 2015, 04:46:17 PM
I've been having all sorts of chats with people about First Order stuff... figured it would be useful to infodump stuff in a thread to make sure we're all roughly on the same page. I'll try and keep this first post updated as things change.

* * *

Origin / Background

TheHolo.net canon is a little different from the movies, so there are some little tweaks.

Some years after the formation of the New Republic, Salem Ave and Delgado Xaanan made secret plans to break away from the Republic and the Senate. They felt that the New Republic was making too many of the same mistakes as the Old Republic - and the Empire - and wanted to see the galaxy brought under the sway of a more focused and orderly vision.

Salem Ave (Darth Callidus) had spent years establishing himself as a secret puppetmaster, manipulating the governments of Onderon, Hapes, and other worlds to suit his needs. Using his allies on Dathomir, Callidus launched an attack against the Jedi, destroying their Sanctuary on Ossus and wiping out most of the rebuilt Order in one decisive move. Xaanan exploited the destruction of the Jedi as a "sign of weakness", using it to leverage several worlds and systems into declaring independence from the Republic in much the same way that Count Dooku had done decades before.

Promising the kind of protection that the Republic clearly could not provide, Xaanan united the Separatists as the First Order, installing himself as Supreme Leader. As well as the loyalty of key worlds like Onderon, Hapes, and Kuat, the Supreme Leader was also able to broker an allegiance with the Pentastar Alignment, an Imperial Remnant located in the northwestern quadrant of the Outer Rim. Using the Alignment as a staging ground, the First Order began to arm themselves in secret, out of sight and mind of the New Republic.

* * *

Leadership

The Supreme Leader serves as the figurehead of the First Order. Having served as a Moff within the Galactic Empire, Xaanan understands the folly of trying to exercise too much direct control on individual worlds and governments. As a result, Xaanan is content to allow Hapes, Kuat, the Alignment, and the rest of the First Order's allies to govern themselves for the most part - though those governments know better than to do anything that would go against the Supreme Leader's wishes.

The leadership of the First Order is structured to be as streamlined and efficient as possible, eliminating many of what Xaanan feels to be the failings of the Imperial bureaucracy. The Order's forces are divided into as few branches as possible, with clear definitions of where the responsibilities and jurisdiction of each ends, to avoid undue overlap and friction.

Beneath the Supreme Leader, authority is spread between three key individuals:


Star Marshal Cortus Veers: Selected from within the ranks of the Pentastar Alignment, Veers is loyal to the idea that an Empire should rule the galaxy. He comes from a prestigious Imperial pedigree, but is pragmatic enough to accept and understand that the New Order was a flawed approach to government. He is the overall commander of the First Order military, and is the Supreme Leader's chief military advisor.

Commandant Vessa Ixxent: The former adjutant, attaché, and bodyguard to Moff Xaanan during his time on Corellia, Ixxent is loyal to the Supreme Leader personally. She has proven time and again that she is a trustworthy ally, and has a natural flair for exploiting people's preconceptions of her as a woman to considerable advantage in her duties. She is responsible for all of the First Order's clandestine operations, including intelligence, counter-intelligence, the secret police; and is also responsible for ensuring the Supreme Leader's personal safety.

Tarek Avesca: The son of Salem Ave and the heir to his authority over Dathomir, Avesca is loyal to Ave and Xaanan's shared vision of how the galaxy should be ordered. His association with the Supreme Leader and the First Order is more a matter of common cause than of loyalty, but Xaanan trusts him to a certain extent for as long as their goals are aligned. He acts as an agent of the Supreme Leader, and while he does not have any specific quantifiable authority, no one is foolish enough to defy his orders.
The military infrastructure of the First Order is divided between five main branches:


Fleet Corps, which consists of starship crews. Fleet Corps officers wear grey uniforms, except the enlisted ranks (who wear black). Rather than the unnecessary structure of fleets and similar, Fleet resources are deployed and distributed on an as-needed case by case basis.
Army Corps, which consists of soldiers who have joined the First Order, rather than going through the from-childhood training of the Stormtroopers. Army officers wear teal uniforms, except the enlisted ranks (who wear black). Army personnel tend operate and maintain any ground-based facilities, leaving the front line combat to the Stormtroopers.
Intelligence Corps, which acts as an intelligence-gathering, counter-intelligence, secret police, and internal affairs all rolled into one. They conduct reconnaissance and espionage, screen new candidates, investigate threats to security, and all that good stuff. The leader of the Intelligence Corps is the Commandant (Vessa Ixxent).
Stormtrooper Corps, which consists of soldiers who have been trained (and brainwashed) since childhood to be fiercely loyal to the First Order. They have the best training, and the best equipment. All of them are identified with a number rather than a name - those two do have a name are rare exceptions, and usually earned it through their service.
Pilot Corps, which consists of anyone who flies anything: fighters, shuttles, troop transports, etc. Elite veterans of the Pilot Corps are referred to as "Special Forces", and gain access to more advanced ships and equipment, as well as permission to add red markings to their uniforms and ships.

* * *

Ranks

The ranks for the First Order (in the movie) are a little wonky. The titles are fairly straight forward, but the insignia are... weird. A General gets two stripes around his wrists, and an Admiral gets the same but with extra red bits. Everyone else has just a single stripe... with a name written on it. Not their name, though: it's the name of an Imperial war hero or a famous unit. (I have no idea why, they just are). The rank progression is -


Admiral
General
Colonel ("KAPLAN")
Major ("TARKIN")
Captain ("DILLON")
Lieutenant ("POWER")
Sergeant ("RO 8")
Squad Leader or Chief Petty Officer or Petty Officer ("HAL 4")

Below that are the troopers / technicians / etc who have no rank at all. There doesn't seem to be anything (uniform-wise) to distinguish between a Chief Petty Officer and a Petty Officer - I guess you just "know".

In terms of uniform colours, these have been tweaked a little.


Black - Enlisted personel, technicians, bridge crew, fleet engineers, etc
Grey - Navy Officers
Teal* - Army Officers (* this colour (http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/u58AAOSw1S9WfOIX/s-l1600.jpg))
Charcoal - Generals & Admirals


* * *

Stormtrooper Corps

Quoting the Visual Dictionary directly: Standard ten-soldier stormtrooper squads contain a slot for a single weapons specialist. Depending on mission profiles, that specialist may be a megablaster heavy assault trooper (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Megablaster_heavy_assault_trooper), a riot control trooper or a flametrooper.

Hot Toys (who have a pretty good reputation for getting their facts right) make a "Squad Leader" statue, wearing a white pauldron. I have not managed to spot it on a vanilla Stormtrooper, but there are one or two Snowtroopers wearing them in the movie. The red pauldron is much more visible: Hot Toys describes that statue as a "Stormtrooper Officer", but looking at the ranks and considering what pauldron colours meant in the Empire, it probably corresponds with Sergeant.

Each of those troop transports (an Atmospheric Assault Lander or "AAL") carries up to twenty Stormtroopers / two squads. Judging from the percentage of red pauldrons in the group shots on Starkiller Base and at Jakku, one Sergeant/officer per transport seems like a safe guess.

The white material used in Stormtrooper armour, riot clubs, shields, etc is called "betaplast". The material is tough enough that flametroopers won't accidentally set you on fire. Everything - weapons, armour, binoculars, etc - is manufactured by the Sonn-Blas Corporation (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sonn-Blas_Corporation): a subsidiary of Merr-Sonn and BlasTech set up to skirt around New Republic sanctions against the First Order.

Fun fact: Snowtrooper armour has a "unit logo" on the chest in a weird blocky alien language. It's actually just the word "cold" written upside-down in a slightly odd font.

* * *

Pilot Corps

The Visual Dictionary describes the First Order pilots collectively as the Pilot Corps. All pilots and flight officers (including shuttles and troop transports) wear the TIE pilot outfits. Anyone with bits of red on their flight gear is considered "Special Forces", and are part of the piloting elite.

There are actually two versions of the new TIE Fighter in the movie, made by Sienar-Jaemus Fleet Systems (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sienar-Jaemus_Fleet_Systems):


TIE/fo ("First Order"): The basic TIE Fighter, featuring a single pilot and a fairly standard configuration. However, unlike the TIE Fighters of the Empire, the TIE/fo is fitted with shields.

TIE/sf ("Special Forces"): An advanced TIE Fighter for elite Special Forces pilots. It features an additional gunner, with turreted weapons systems that can fire behind as well as forwards; a broader selection of weapons systems; and a hyperdrive.
The same company also makes the AAL troop transports, and the Upsilon-class Command Shuttle that Kylo Ren uses to get around. In the AAL, the pilot is sitting in that sticky-up tower thing, and there is a hatch beside it where a Stormtrooper with a machine gun can pop out.

* * *

Fleet Corps

The Resurgent-class Star Destroyer (as seen in the movie) is a new breed of Star Destroyer designed by Kuat-Entralla Engineering. It is nearly two miles long, with three thousand turbolasers and assorted other guns; two full wings of TIE Fighters (144 in total); and 100 AAL transports, enough to deploy 2,000 of the ship's 8,000 Stormtroopers each wave. The Fleet Corps currently controls 26 of these Star Destroyers, and they are exclusively under the control of the First Order itself.

Additionally, the First Order has starships of other classes, contributed by it's ally worlds and governments. The Pentastar Alignment boasts a respectable fleet of older generation Imperial starships, as does Kuat. The Royal Hapan Navy also represents a significant military force, though the Hapans are generally reluctant to commit their forces to anything but the direct protection of the Cluster.

* * *

Manufacturers


Aratech-Loratus Corporation - Sanction-dodging spinoff of Aratech and Loratus Manufacturing. Produces the LIUV.

Kuat-Entralla Engineering - Sanction-dodging spinoff of Kuat Drive Yards, based on Entralla. Produces the Resurgent Star Destroyer.

Sienar-Jaemus Fleet Systems - Sanction-dodging spinoff of Santhe/Sienar, based on Jaemus. Produces all TIE Fighters, Upsilon Shuttles, and AAL Troop Transports.

Sonn-Blas Corporation - Sanction-dodging spinoff of Merr-Sonn and BlasTech. Produces all Stormtrooper armour, weapons, and gear.
* * *

Planets

The Core & Colonies:
Kuat - A human supremacist monarchy. Though it is a significant military holding due to the presence of the Kuat Drive Yards, it's proximity to the Core Worlds makes the New Republic somewhat nervous. The abundance of Republic forces in the area is why the

The Inner & Mid Rim:
Hapes Cluster - Probably our biggest ally/supporter. Tarek Avesca's sister is the Queen there, so there's a very strong connection between the First Order and the Consortium. While the First Order's military is formidable enough on it's own, the prospect of Hapan reinforcements is probably a big part of why the New Republic is so reluctant to pick a fight.
Onderon - Another planet that's definitely allied with the First Order, because of Salem's history there. Another monarchy.
Dathomir - Sort of? Tarek Avesca has strong connections with the Darksiders here.

The Pentastar Alignment (NW Outer Rim):
Entralla - The Alignment's capital. Location of the shipyards where Kuat Drive Yards (as Kuat-Entralla Engineering) builds our Star Destroyers.
Dantooine - Too remote for an effective demonstration.
Dubrillion & Destrillion - Historically ruled by an infamous monarchy. Extensive mining, industry, and Imperial R&D.
Endex - A subjugated/enslaved non-human world. Because of the Entymal reputation as pilots, the Pilot Corps has one of it's training bases here.
Gravlex Med - The subjugated/enslaved homeworld of the Anx. It is a high-gravity industrial world; the Anx make good labor slaves.
Ilum - Slightly over the border into the Unknown Regions, Ilum is a crystal-rich former Jedi world used as a Stormtrooper base by the First Order. (Based on Visual Dictionary clues, Starkiller Base is likely to have been built inside Ilum)
Jaemus - Location of Sienar's TIE Fighter factories. The Enforcer-class / Interdictor Cruiser was developed here decades ago.
Mygeeto & Muunilinst - The homeworlds of the Muun and the Intergalactic Banking Clan.

Supreme Leader Xaanan
Dec 28th, 2015, 05:03:51 PM
^ That's the relatively definite(ish) bits. Some food for thought for discussions and stuff and what-not though...


Starkiller Base?

There's a new galaxy map in the Visual Dictionary. Because I've done map stuff for Fans before, I wanted to see where the new planets (D'Qar, Jakku, etc) line up in relation to the stuff on the Essential Atlas map, which I've previously been using as a basis. Turns out that the locations for Tatooine, Yavin, Hoth, Taris, and all the other familiar stuff lines up PERFECTLY with the Essential Atlas.

Curiously though, the "starting location" for Starkiller Base lines up perfectly with something as well - the planet Ilum, where Jedi used to go to get their lightsaber crystals. Because they used a real filming location, Starkiller Base isn't quite as "alien"-looking as Ilum is in the SWTOR game, but the chamber with Snoke's hologram was vaguely reminiscent of some of the Ilum ruins seen in the Clone Wars series... and there's other reasons that make it seem as if Starkiller Base might have been build on Ilum.

Regardless... we're certainly not going to have a Starkiller base, but how would people feel about us having a fortress/outpost on Ilum, so that we've got those cool visuals? Perhaps it's the location where we've been secretly building / training our new Stormtrooper army, out of sight and out of mind from the rest of the galaxy?


Pentastar Alignment?

While the nucleus of the First Order is based around Salem Ave and his Onderon/Hapes stuff, there's almost certainly some Imperial Remnant type folks that refused to join the New Republic, who we may have teamed up with later on. There are a couple of references in the Visual Dictionary that seem to line up with the Pentastar Alignment in particular - a few references to EU worlds that were part of it, similarities between it's logo and the new First Order logo, etc.

In particular, the Pentastar part of the galaxy seems to be where our Star Destroyers and TIE Fighters are getting built. If someone wanted to play the Imperial Remnant angle (as opposed to the Separatist angle), this might be a good backdrop to do it. Perhaps our Star Marshal is from the Alignment (and that's why he has such a prominent role in our military)? Perhaps there's a Grand Moff of the Pentastar Alignment kicking about, who clings to the "old ways" that the Empire does things, and clashes somewhat with the newer, more streamlined First Order way?


First Order Flagship?

Presumably, Supreme Leader Xaanan has some sort of flagship that he travels around on. I am lazy, so I am inclined to just say that it's an/the Eclipse (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eclipse-class_dreadnought) or something (because they are visually cool and ominous), because for all we know we might get to see Snoke's badass throne ship in Episode VIII and want to blow up whatever we've got and replace it.

It's certainly not the only option, though. It might be cool to invent something that combines in some influence from Hapes. It might be cool to have an assortment of flagship-type ships built by different people - perhaps the Star Marshal and/or the Commandant have unique ships in the mix as well, contributed by different members/allies at different points?

Commandant Ixxent
Dec 28th, 2015, 09:48:48 PM
Looks seriously fantastic so far...super excited to get this going ^_^

Park Kraken
Dec 29th, 2015, 10:01:24 AM
Bastille I'd envisioned as more of a general ship's captain (line captain) then a captain of a general category. We see several Star Destroyers in the movie, presumably they all have their own individual captains.

Also, since this is our own timeline with diverging differences, I've already created our own scaled down version of a Resurgent class; http://sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?56492-Oppressor-class-Star-Destroyer&goto=newpost which could serve as a new version of the Victory class.

As for other ideas, I also like the idea of a homegrown version of a Star Dreadnought, along with the possibility of a scaled up Golan Battlestation that could serve as both a mobile garrison and a symbol of fear for the First Order. Possibly something armed with an empowered turbolaser that could inflict significant damage on a capital ship or planetary fortress with a single shot, but isn't quite as powerful as a superweapon.

Supreme Leader Xaanan
Dec 29th, 2015, 04:19:38 PM
Bastille I'd envisioned as more of a general ship's captain (line captain) then a captain of a general category. We see several Star Destroyers in the movie, presumably they all have their own individual captains.

We see several Star Destroyers? I thought we only saw one. According to the dictionary, the Finalizer is the only ship of it's class so far.

Either way, while Star Destroyers certainly would be commanded individually (which is pretty much what I described already - no fleets, just individual ships being distributed as needed), I don't think the First Order uses the title "Captain". Or the Resistance, for that matter. Both have rank systems based on the Army progression, which places Captain pretty solidly down at the bottom... and for the First Order especially, that efficiency/OCD vibe they've got going doesn't really jive with having an awkward/bloated rank system like the Empire did.

My guess is that the officer in command of a Star Destroyer, regardless of what their rank is, would be "Commander". In terms of franchise synergy, audiences are pretty used to a Commander outranking a Captain by now, thanks to Clone Wars and Rebels; and it makes a nice distinction between a starship Commander and a freighter Captain - which matches the idea of Captain being so low on the rank progression. It also means that the First Order ranks reflect the Grand Army of the Republic, which is probably a better / more logical / more efficient source of inspiration for them than the Empire's ranks.


Also, since this is our own timeline with diverging differences, I've already created our own scaled down version of a Resurgent class; http://sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?56492-Oppressor-class-Star-Destroyer&goto=newpost which could serve as a new version of the Victory class.

Diverging differences are cool, but bear in mind that with Episode VIII only 18 months away, and with games/comics/books/etc coming out in the meantime, canon is going to be providing us with new ships and fighters and such, and we probably won't have to wait too long for them. We might want to hedge our bets a little, just in case canon comes along and gives an official version of something we already made. For other factions, "the more the merrier" is usually a reasonable approach, but that doesn't really jive with the OCD efficiency of the First Order.

Instead of having it be as brand new as the Resurgent-class, what if the Oppressor is a little bit older? Have the Resurgent be a scaled-up Oppressor, rather than the Oppressor being a scaled-down Resurgent. That way, if canon comes along and gives us a shiny new design to do the same job, it's a "replacement" for the older design instead of having two ships that do the same thing. Same goes for if we decided to add our own TIE Bomber, a different kind of shuttle, etc.


As for other ideas, I also like the idea of a homegrown version of a Star Dreadnought, along with the possibility of a scaled up Golan Battlestation that could serve as both a mobile garrison and a symbol of fear for the First Order. Possibly something armed with an empowered turbolaser that could inflict significant damage on a capital ship or planetary fortress with a single shot, but isn't quite as powerful as a superweapon.

If we were to use something like an Eclipse or a Sovereign, dialling back the power on their axial superlaser into that "empowered turbolaser" bracket would probably be a smart move on the balancing front. If possible, I'd prefer to adapt an EU design rather than go 100% homegrown. Creating something entirely original is cool... but it's also completely unfamiliar, and can be a bit off-putting to new people. If we use a design with some familiarity, we get that bonus "Oh hey, I've heard of that!" effect, which is always helpful.

Not sure about the Golan Battlestation idea though: the reason that we're fighting the Resistance rather than the New Republic is because they don't see us as a big enough threat yet. Dreadnaughts are one thing: the Republic has those too. If we start dropping mobile garrison bases into orbit and conquering whole planets though, we might strain the credibility of the New Republic sitting this fight out.

Park Kraken
Dec 30th, 2015, 08:31:47 AM
We see several Star Destroyers? I thought we only saw one. According to the dictionary, the Finalizer is the only ship of it's class so far.


I'm about to see the movie again but I'm pretty sure in one of the shots of Starkiller Base shows an additional three Star Destroyers orbiting the base with the Finalizer being a fourth in the foreground.

The rest are all fair points.


If possible, I'd prefer to adapt an EU design rather than go 100% homegrown. Creating something entirely original is cool... but it's also completely unfamiliar, and can be a bit off-putting to new people. If we use a design with some familiarity, we get that bonus "Oh hey, I've heard of that!" effect, which is always helpful.

True enough, as that goes with my reasoning behind the composition of the Republic Fleet.

Park Kraken
Dec 30th, 2015, 03:50:38 PM
[ Okay in the scene just before Darth Vader's mask you can see a squadron of four Star Destroyers orbiting Starkiller Base before the Finalizer starts cutting across the shot. ]

Jaden Luka
Dec 30th, 2015, 07:28:27 PM
If possible, I'd prefer to adapt an EU design rather than go 100% homegrown. Creating something entirely original is cool... but it's also completely unfamiliar, and can be a bit off-putting to new people. If we use a design with some familiarity, we get that bonus "Oh hey, I've heard of that!" effect, which is always helpful.

True enough, as that goes with my reasoning behind the composition of the Republic Fleet.

Awesome, seems like we're on the same wavelength. :thumbup

Supreme Leader Xaanan
Jan 2nd, 2016, 08:30:35 AM
Edited the first post somewhat, to include bits and pieces that have been established in threads / worked out in chats / etc. There are still some bits to work out and what-not... once we start getting those pieces into place, I'll get this all converted over into wiki page form.


In terms of command ships and throne ships and that sort of business... How many should we have, and should they all be the same type?

If the New Republic is going to have a few Star Defenders of their own, I think it might be cool if we had a handful for the First Order, but have them be all assorted and cobbled together from different sources. For the Supreme Leader's throne ship, perhaps it's not just an Eclipse but the Eclipse, liberated from whichever secret R&D yard it was constructed at. Perhaps the Pentastar Alignment has an old school Super Star Destroyer kicking around from ye olden days? Maybe the Star Marshal has inherited that as his base of operations. Or, perhaps we've got "the" Sovereign as well as the Eclipse, which the Star Marshal or the Commandant is using? Perhaps Avesca has his own menacing special command ship... maybe something based on the Scimitar (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/9/94/Scimitar_Predator.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100225100559&path-prefix=en) from Star Trek, some sort of Imperial/Hapan/Dathomiri hybrid ship, kind of as a dark reflection of s'Ilancy and her Romulan/Lupine ship?

Sharzon Naz'Rael
Jan 3rd, 2016, 07:06:29 PM
I have an idea for a home grown design that's essentially a scaled down Executor with a turreted version of an LNR-II series Planetary Turbolaser that would give some hefty destructive power while incorporating corrections from previous design flaws. That would give us something new to play with while allowing for some diversity.

Jaden Luka
Jan 6th, 2016, 08:11:03 AM
What would the purpose of such a ship be? Some sort of "starship killer"?

Definitely a cool concept, but we might not get much story use out of it. The New Republic is sitting out this conflict for now, and the Resistance is still at fledgeling levels. If we have an assortment of fancy starships with super cool weapons, we're going to turn the entire Resistance fleet into a debris field with one hand tied behind our back, and that's sorta game over for the setting.

Park Kraken
Jan 6th, 2016, 09:48:59 AM
What would the purpose of such a ship be? Some sort of "starship killer"?

Definitely a cool concept, but we might not get much story use out of it. The New Republic is sitting out this conflict for now, and the Resistance is still at fledgeling levels. If we have an assortment of fancy starships with super cool weapons, we're going to turn the entire Resistance fleet into a debris field with one hand tied behind our back, and that's sorta game over for the setting.

It would be just that, since the First Order would be gearing up for a run at the entire galaxy. Such a ship though would be ineffective against smaller ships, since the turret I had in mind would have a slow train rate, intended for combat against larger capital ships and stations.

Delgado Xaanan
Jan 6th, 2016, 10:35:39 AM
As long as we're careful we don't end up with too many cool toys in our toy box, we should be fine. We just need to be careful we don't get too carried away - we're only a few sectors after all, not a fully fledged Empire. We don't control half of Europe like the Nazis... we're more on the scale of North Korea.

Park Kraken
Jan 11th, 2016, 02:07:38 PM
Okay here is my first draft for the new Star Dreadnought; http://theholo.net/wiki/index.php/Omnipotent-class_Star_Dreadnought

Captain Untouchable
Jan 11th, 2016, 03:22:41 PM
I think we're in danger of making the First Order too over-powered.

Not only can this ship take out cruisers in a couple of hits, it has enough regular turbolasers to make it pretty invulnerable, and it has more starfighters than the entire Resistance combined. We're just starting a thread where one battlecruiser just took out half the Resistance fleet without breaking a sweat... the Resistance does not have a hope in hell of being able to fight this kind of craft; so we can't really use this ship to fight the people we're supposed to be fighting in this setting.

Worse than that, the New Republic is supposed to consider us "not a threat", and that's why they aren't getting involved. If we start throwing around Super Star Destroyers, that's going to change pretty rapidly. It makes no sense that the New Republic would let the First Order fly around with ships as dangerous as the Omnipotent. If we do have these ships... we just won't be able to use them, because it'll break the setting.

The concept of a big main gun is a cool one... maybe we'll get more use out of it if we scale it down? Maybe the Omnipotent is more of a Star Destroyer sized vessel, and in order to power the main gun you have to shut down the defensive batteries. Instead of an invulnerable super-ship, it becomes "space artillery" - still hella dangerous for the Resistance, but not unbeatable. Instead of one ship that can do it all, the First Order has to worry about defensive formations and what-not... which is more fun for fleeting anyway.

Super Star Destroyers seem more like they're a case-by-case basis "plot point" sort of ship - like the Supreme Leader having one to "keep him safe", the Pentastar Alignment or Kuat or somewhere having a left-over Executor from the old days, etc. Even a super-secret shipyard that has started building Super Star Destroyers but "they aren't read yet" makes sense. Having a lot of them in-play getting used as part of actual threads and actual battles seems a little too OP, though.

Park Kraken
Jan 11th, 2016, 05:04:05 PM
I can scale down the ship if desired but this was never intended to be a PC ship, just an updated version of a Star Dreadnought in the First Order inventory. I figure Player Characters would at most command a single Resurgent class Destroyer as per your guidelines on the Resistance I was just throwing an idea out there for a modern bad ship that could as you say serve as Snoke's Personal Flagship or possibly be unveiled only when the First Order strikes the Republic, if we (roughly) follow the events as they happened in the movie. In the meantime if discovered it could serve as a thread plot point, like the Revenant in the current thread, perhaps while it (or a sister vessel) is still under construction?

Captain Untouchable
Jan 11th, 2016, 06:00:36 PM
So you're saying this is a "break glass in case of emergency" ship?

It feels like a bit of a waste of an idea if it's not something we can ever realistically use, but if that's how you want to do it, fair enough.

It still feels pretty OP to me, though. It's smaller than an Executor or a Viscount, but it manages to have a fighter compliment that absolutely dwarfs theirs... and while it has less regular turbolasers and such, that doesn't really matter if it's main cannon is going to be able to pound the hell out of a Viscount. Your main gun will take care of any big ships, your smaller guns will take care of any escorts/frigates, and you've got more than enough starfighters to match anything the Republic - let alone the Resistance - could ever realistically throw at you... it seems too unkillable to be "fair", if that makes sense.


Maybe there's a way to overlap this idea with the Revenant from Charley's thread? (Any thoughts, Charley?) Perhaps if we scaled it down, and/or if the Revenant was some sort of prototype of the design. Having some sort of big gun would be a nice echo of the Malevolance... and perhaps there's some sort of power generation problem that means you can power the main gun or the defensive guns - but not both - and/or a charging/cooldown issue that limits how frequently the Revenant can fire it's main turbolaser? With earlier encounters, the Revenant had destroyed the Resistance ships before they got a shot in, but Katarn Force's eight vessels were too many targets for the Revenant to fend them off before it took damage.

If it's some sort of precursor / prototype - maybe a proof of concept design that Kuat has been working on - that still gives the option of having a big brother design eventually, but also means we don't waste a good idea on a ship that we might not ever get the opportunity to use.

Park Kraken
Jan 11th, 2016, 06:10:54 PM
Well there is a reason that I called it a first draft. As originally envisioned it was going to be three times as big as a Resurgent but perhaps it's twice as big instead? I'll also gear it more towards carrier/command ship and slash the ground complement accordingly. Second draft will be coming soon.

EDIT: Okay here are some revised stats. Weapons array pretty similar to Resurgent but with the big turbolaser. Still technically a Star Dreadnought by Anaxes War Rating.

Omnipotent class Star Dreadnought II


Length: 5,575 meters


Armament:
(1) SNR Series II Turbolaser Cannon
(100) Heavy Turbolaser Batteries
(100) Ion Batteries
(200) Quad Laser Cannons
(40) Quad Missle Turrets
(30) Tractor Beam Projectors


Hangar Capacity:
240 Starfighters
100 Assault Craft


Ground Complement:
10,000 Troops
10 AT-ATs
20 AT-STs
1 Pre-Fabricated Garrison Base


Shield Rating: 15,500 SBD
Hull Rating: 7,500 RU

Captain Untouchable
Jan 11th, 2016, 07:34:34 PM
I think the problem is one of balancing.

Right now, if an Omnipotent and a Viscount get into a fight, the Omnipotent wins. You win on fighters, not just because of sheer numbers, but also because even the basic TIE/fo has shields now. You have significantly fewer turbolasers, but the bulk of them can fire forward; a Viscount is teardrop-shaped, so as long as your bow is pointed at them you're presenting as small a target as possible to a fraction of their guns, while still bringing most of yours to bear. Even if that doesn't balance, you've still got more single-target firepower because of your main gun... and that main gun is designed to accurately hit targets across surface-to-orbit distances, unlike regular turbolasers which have a spray-and-pray approach to orbital bombardment. You're significantly smaller too, so not only a smaller target, but probably a lighter target that can turn faster.

The only real vulnerability is if the Viscount has support ships that are able to flank the Omnipotent... and the odds of the First Order sending an Omnipotent to attack the New Republic without escorts of her own are pretty slim, so that mostly cancels out.

I completely understand where you got 360 fighters from (scaling up the Imperator/Resurgent/etc numbers), but I'd be inclined to focus on the ship-to-ship aspect of things, and let your inevitable Resurgent escorts worry about filling the air with fighters.

Park Kraken
Jan 11th, 2016, 07:51:28 PM
And actually I've been forgetting to accommodate the bulk of the systems needed to power and operate SNR Turbolaser as well which would consume a fair amount of room. Okay, scaling down the hangar and dropping the ground complement to a pure infantry based force, mostly used for ship defense. Also scaling down on the point defense weapons as well.

Okay, also simplified it a little bit. Don't want to overcomplicate things;

Length: 5,500 meters


Armament:
(1) SNR-II Series Turbolaser Cannon
(100) Turbolaser Batteries *Power rating dropped from heavy to medium.
(20) Ion Batteries *Reduced from 100.
(100) Point Defense Dual Laser Cannons *Dropped down from 200 and reduced Quad to Half.
(20) Tractor Beam Projectors


Hangar Capacity:
72 Starfighters
30 Assault Craft (8 Gunboats, 10 Shuttles, 12 Barges)

Ground Complement:
9,700 Troops


Shield Rating: 15,000 SBD
Hull Rating: 7,500 RU

Captain Untouchable
Jan 11th, 2016, 08:37:24 PM
You could probably even keep the ion cannons at 100 - prioritising weapons that are going to have a significant effect on enemy shields is probably a good idea.

Feels much more like a usable ship now, though. I could see us getting a decent amount of mileage out of these in the long run. :thumbup