SW-Fans, Part VII - The Board Awakens

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Could this be it for our intrepid heroes?

Just wondering what's going on and why aren't you posting here anymore? Me, personally, it's hard to keep this place in mind when I have spare time. I'm used to being in a holding pattern of 'waiting for someone to post to my thread/s' and to be honest for the first time in over ten years I don't visit Sw-Fans every day. Which is not a big deal except forOut of Sight, Out of Mind. I tend to check the Activity Stream for posts to my threads because it's rare that there have been so many posts since I last visited that a new post I need to see won't show up there.

Of course, sometimes they fall off the Stream before I visit, and I miss them. That's my bad. I need to check New Posts instead.

SO - I'll make a renewed effort to post in February if YOU do. This means Star Wars RP (incomplete "current threads" - I want to finish them, not just move on), and Mutants, and whatever else you want to revive/start. I need to stretch my creative brain.

Increased activity from current members = more attractive place for new people to come to. We have had people arrive in the last year or so just to disappear once they realize they can't participate because nothing is going on here on any sort of consistent basis. This isn't a guilt trip, it's just a fact. And it's also a fact that we've all aged and have different priorities than we used to.

So why aren't you posting? If there are things we can fix we should. I suspect, however, it's just a matter of getting the ball rolling.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?55743-Old-Fashioned-Fun-%28Arcan-IV%29 this is open, by the way. I tagged it Retro because it's just a For Fun RP with no goals where anyone can drop in.

edit: If you want visual confirmation of how inactive the board has been, there are threadS on page 2 of the Galaxy forum from May 2014.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I've been trying to be regular with my posting, and have a few threads that are still puttering along :)

[Zereth Lancer]

I still check the boards just about every single day. It's part of my morning routine along with facebook and emails.

I'm usually in that holding pattern of waiting for other people. I've had a lot of threads end recently so I've been trying to get new ones going. I'm testing the water with "Quest/mission" threads, like the Imperial Strike Team I posted recently, to see if I can drum up some activity with a thread style that's most fashioned after a Dungeons and Dragons or MMORPG quest; small, compact, with an objective and decisions that the party has to make that will have consequences.

So we will see how that goes.

[Alexi Hesith]

I'm going to be mildly heretical and say that I actually like that things are quieter here than they were before.

*ducks rotten fruit*

I suppose this has a lot to do with why I stopped being active the last time around.

*ducks rotten vegetables*

In the golden age (Pratchett fans should know what that means) this was a very busy place . It was exciting but also a bit daunting. Frenetic or frantic pace comes to mind. Keeping up with all the IC activity and associated OOC planning and discussion could become quite difficult. I certainly found it so.

*ducks chicken*

And that was when I had plenty of time in my day to read and write. But ye gods it could be tiring trying to keep up.

*ducks zimmer frame*

I mean one had to come to the boards several times a day to read and post just to keep up and ensure that one's views were taken into account. Not doing so meant disappointing others and/or getting left behind. It could also mean that something that had been carefully set up could be taken wildly off piste by one enthusiatic soul with the time to contribute every other post in a thread.

*pauses to assemble protective structure for self because ducking is getting a bit tedious*

Like I say, it was frenetic and it all got a bit tiring.

*steps inside protective structure*

After I started working full-time I simply could not post with the frequency that seemed to be required. Becoming a growned-up (I started posting here at 16 years old and kept going until I was in my early twenties) made it almost impossible to keep going with the same child-like energy. I could have said something but, for whatever reason, I chickened out.

*looks apologetically at the chicken now huffily trying to peck its way into the protective structure in order to attack*

I stopped getting involved in new threads, withdrew somewhat, lurked, and then lurked less frequently. Then that pretty much stopped. Then, on a whim, I would take another look and lurk a bit more but not post. Then, at the end of last year I came back again without any intention of writing anything really just to see what had happened since I last lurked.

*swishes cloak dramatically*

And would you believe it, I found a place that had calmed down enough that I thought "I could manage this"? So I started posting again. Not for the sake of posting but because I have stories I want to tell and ideas I want to explore with help from others and I want to help them explore their ideas, too.

*pauses in hopes of applause but is disappointed*

I'll freely admit that I would like it if things moved a little quicker at times but then that would be expecting others to give a level of commitment I myself would be reluctant to offer. I mean, if I cannot find the time to write instant replies why should I expect others to? But, overall, I am happy to be back and posting without being under pressure to post lots and often and I would hate it if someone who felt the same way was made to feel bad about it because of me. This time around, I'll say so if someone makes me feel that way.

I hope that Part VII does bring more people in or back. I hope that when they do arrive they'll find us chugging along happily turning out good quality material perhaps in greater volume. I hope that the people who also want to chug along producing good quality material will come (back) in and stay.

I think everyone who wants to could, perhaps, make clear their likely capacity to read an post. I for one would say "checks and reads daily but posts weekly" sums up my behaviour. Saying this might help to manage expectations.

In the meantime I am going to carry on posting as often as I can and I'll keep an eye out for newbies/returning oldies so I can say "Howdy there. Come on in and let's spin us a yarn or two."

*picks up golden wrench*

Now if you'll excuse me I have a few minutes of my lunch break left so I am off to tinker with a draft post. Ta ta for now.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

There's "slow enough to keep pace with" and then there's "dead quiet" - I think we all know which of those the board is tipping toward. :)

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I certainly don't see it as dead quiet. Just because some folks don't visit every day (heaven knows there's been a few days here and there that I've been too busy to) doesn't mean we're teetering on the edge of forever.

[Michael Cline]

I have threads that have been anguishing in limbo for coming up on a solid year.

I've started considering just retiring characters because with a few exceptions most of them are outright ignored. I do check the boards everyday (I have 2 threads I need to reply to, one that just got a reply this week, and another that I was mistaken on the posting order for - which I was just corrected on last week)

Maybe other people have better luck with their experiences, but mine is 100% dead quiet. I'm not trying to sound accusatory or upset, but it is a touch frustrating to see your threads passed over by the people you're waiting on, in favor of other threads they're involved with.

[Alexi Hesith]

That's something I sympathise with. If someone joins a thread they ought to stick with it. If they get stuck they should say so and get help to get things moving on. It's good manners if nothing else.

[Droo]

This place is unattractively quiet, and, surprising no-one, I confess I have contributed towards that quietness. At present, I have no desire to roleplay here or anywhere else for that matter. I do hope that will change in the future but I must admit, before I sidelined my characters, I was finding my roleplaying experience deeply unsatisfying. Perhaps my appetites have just changed - I want to write but I want to write my stories. I have a deep affection for this place, it has been my internet home for my entire adult life, and, when the Force awakens, I would love to see it achieve its former glory.

[Ilias Nytrau]

To be honest, I think what's been missing for a long time is the focus. We've been hair-brained, we've indulged every little whim. We have things that are not Star Wars on this board drawing the attention away from the main idea. The thing that is first and foremost. You look at the board and there's always that other thing.

Don't get me wrong! The other franchises (X-Men, WoD) have been enjoyable, but it's competition with the main thing that we're here to write and indulge in in the first place. The other things are always there, right in front of us, staring us in the face. I've tried writing in those universes, but it's always ended up being a choice between that or SW, and it's always, always, always come back to SW for me.

The bulk of my roleplay writing happens elsewhere these days, and you know what I'm writing? Star Wars, and only that.

Something to think about, my dear, dear friends. :)

[Charley]

I've been sucked into a bunch of my other hobbies which usually take me away from the computer. Cooking, homebrewing, going to local events. About the only time I'm online is on my phone with social media. I do need to post more, but I probably need to adopt a regimented lifestyle that allows for me to triage my free time a little more thoughtfully than I presently do.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

To be honest, I think what's been missing for a long time is the focus. We've been hair-brained, we've indulged every little whim. We have things that are not Star Wars on this board drawing the attention away from the main idea. The thing that is first and foremost. You look at the board and there's always that other thing.

Don't get me wrong! The other franchises (X-Men, WoD) have been enjoyable, but it's competition with the main thing that we're here to write and indulge in in the first place. The other things are always there, right in front of us, staring us in the face. I've tried writing in those universes, but it's always ended up being a choice between that or SW, and it's always, always, always come back to SW for me.

The bulk of my roleplay writing happens elsewhere these days, and you know what I'm writing? Star Wars, and only that.

Something to think about, my dear, dear friends. :)

This could be relevant if there were a lot of people postingt in General Rping. But there isn't.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I dunno; I think it's relevant, and certainly something to consider in that when there are a multitude of options then there is often indecision and ultimately non-action in what to participate in. We all know that there's no limit on what you're able to write in, but Kaman does have a point in narrowing the view once more. Whether it's done or not is not so important as whether it is discussed and put on the table with the other stuff.

For me personally, I've dipped into the other settings, but I always came back to SW because that was what I loved and because it was ultimately what held my interest.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

So, do you mean that we should tell people they can't post in anything other than Star Wars RP?

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Absolutely not.

I just felt that it was subject matter to be discussed. In no way was I saying that from now on people couldn't post in alternate settings.

[Droo]

What is interesting to me, as a veteran roleplayer of these forums, is that, of all settings on offer here, I find our Star Wars universe almost impregnable. This is something I've said many times before and, considering that I'm of the old guard and still having these difficulties, it might be something worth considering.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Would you say that it's an issue of a lack of a setting summary that illustrates in a paragraph or so the state things are in?

[Mu Satach]

Obviously the problem is we need more trout and frying pans.

[Droo]

If anything, I would say it has something to do with a lack of an entry point for new characters. By the way, you must take what I say with a pinch of salt because I am speaking only from my own experience. I have two proper characters in the Star Wars setting (and Kallum would've been shelved long ago had it not been for Charley's tireless efforts to keep me engaged, and entertained, with him as a character), and both of which were a nightmare to get off the ground in first place. Kallum and Loki went through several false starts, and in Kallum's case, I had to change his age a few times and his backstory. It wasn't until the Wheel was created and I stationed Loki there that I was able to truly find my feet with him. When I made Kidd Smix, I discovered I had to keep taking extreme liberties with his backstory, and contrive ridiculous faction swaps just to keep him on life support. Again, it was Charley who was willing to humour another one of my faltering characters, but I'm afraid that, by that time, it was too late for him and my interest had evaporated.

So I have two characters, and it's not for a lack of wanting more: I've wanted to write Sith, Imperials, bounty hunters, and so on, but the Star Wars universe is, by its nature, so vast and the characters that inhabit it feel, at least to an outsider, so segregated by their own stories. On a few occasions, I attempted to write on my own to get a character off the ground, but that gets quite lonely when you're surrounded by a community of talented roleplayers. It is a big part of the appeal of non-Star Wars settings to me, such as Mutants Unite, which can be contained to a city, or even a single house, where characters can and will cross each other regularly without straining their respective story arcs. I know people have claimed the contrary before, but for me it makes getting involved much easier in a setting like that.

Over the course of my time here, there have been plenty of characters that I have built up in my mind and on paper, that I simply cannot wait to share with others, but unfortunately, that desire rarely becomes a reality. Maybe the hints I drop to others are too vague, or maybe I'm simply not being assertive enough - honestly, I don't know - but when I try to introduce a new character, it's hard not too feel like an imposition upon others, and their characters.

[Captain Untouchable]

I think the problem is a very fundamental one: we are here to "play".

If you take a step back and look at the kinds of roleplays that we do, the kinds of stories that we tell, and the kinds of threads that are successful, we have a very Days of Our Lives style of storytelling. Most of what we (collectively) are interested in writing about is character development, and the plot of the thread is there to facilitate it. More often than not, if you're in a thread and you're passionate and interested about it, it is because there's a really fun dynamic going on, there's fun character interactions, you've got a good back and forth going with the people you are writing with. The pleasure comes from the process, from the writing, and as long as you're getting the opportunity to do that writing and keep doing it, there's no real drive to push towards the end. It's like playing a multiplayer video game - a lot of the time you don't care what the story is supposed to be, and sometimes you don't even notice; you're having fun, and that's what matters. Sure, there are story arcs, and there is continuity, but it's all very personal to you, your character, and the characters that they interact with.

Because of that style/mindset, it means that plot-heavy threads aren't actually all that fulfilling. If you are knuckling down and trying to hammer your way through a hefty, complicated bit of storyline, you don't have the freedom to have those ad lib moments. You can't find a fun dynamic and milk it for all the enjoyment you can, because you have to press on, have to pass the next plot point, have to push and push to get the thread complete. Finishing threads is counter-productive to a player mentality, because when the thread is done, you stop having fun. Most people on Fans want to carry on playing the writing equivalent of Mario Kart or Deadliest Warrior, or multiplayer Mass Effect 3; they want infinite enjoyment with people they enjoy interacting with, instead of grinding their way through levels, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I think that is part of the reason why Mutants Unite seems to do better than Star Wars in the long run. With Star Wars, we're trying to roleplay the entire galaxy, with political leaders and religious leaders and officials and generals and all that; but we don't actually enjoy telling the plot-heavy stories all that much, and they fall by the wayside while we're off having fun with sillier / more character-focused things. Mutants Unite is better suited for the Fans style of roleplay, because if you zoom in and focus on a little pocket of characters, if you have your character-driven drama, you can get away with it. You are "just" the residents of one house, or of one school, or one corporation, or what-have-you. We can play the smaller, more interesting, more personal characters and not have to worry about Presidents and politics and all that backdrop stuff. We want to be the every-day relatable characters rattling around in the Star Wars universe who perhaps get plucked out of security and sent on a grand adventure like Luke and Han, or like the Guardians of the Galaxy - or at least, those are the characters we seem to have the most fun and hijinks with.

Not everyone is wired up that way, though. My mind works like 24, where each episode, each thread slots into a bigger, ongoing story. I like the idea of building an ongoing story, of setting up juicy plot points and littering in clues for the next thread, of knowing that the guy we just encountered is going to come back and turn out to be the big villain in a few stories time. I prefer that D&D/Dark Banana quest style, that playing Halo in co-op style, where it's still fun... but it's fun with targets, and objectives, and achievements. Different strokes for different folks... but because I am skewed towards that kind of thing, I find that threads that are too vague / too distracted / don't have that kind of plan/clarity don't spark my interest and enthusiasm as well, and that makes it really tricky to motivate myself to write in them.

What Fans does, and what people seem to enjoy is grand, and great, and it was fun for a while... but it's just not my cup of tea anymore.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Obviously the problem is we need more trout and frying pans.
This is it!

[Alexi Hesith]

If the general activity level being low is an issue we would like to address we could do worse than emulating/ripping off a social media practice.

Some Youtubers participate in an exercise called VEDA (Vlog Every Day in April) by way of an annual revitalisation of their activities. It can be quite effective. Perhaps we could do a Post Daily Pledge? Some of us pledge to make at least one substantive post (OOC or IC) to the boards every day for a specified period. It'll make the place a bit more active, give others a reason to visit and move some things along whether roleplays or planning.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

We have done "post every day" challenges in the past, and they did boost activity quite a bit.

[Droo]

To give a point to my late-night ramblings, basically, I wonder if it would be an idea to conceive of something like the Wheel for the other factions in the game. A springboard setting where new characters can dive in and mingle with existing characters, somewhere small and accessible. In MMO terms, think of it like the newbie planets of SWTOR: if you were a bounty hunter or an Imperial agent, you'd start out on Hutta, where you could meet and group up with other newbie agents and hunters, or, in the case of Sith Warriors and Inquisitors, there was Korriban. I understand that this could be perceived as creating a homogeneous experience for all the different types of characters but it's important to bear in mind that it wouldn't be compulsory to start your character in such a way, but it could, given time and effort, generate busy little social hubs for our various factions that allow fun and easy interaction and provide a starting point for bigger stories.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Like a space station, perhaps? Or Cloud City?

[Zereth Lancer]

Or a Sith Temple...?

I think the backbone of this roleplay is the factions, and we really aren't utilizing them anymore. The Alliance, Empire, and Jedi have lost focus and have become just a few sparse stories between select individuals. There's a lack of clear objectives and mission threads to accomplish them, and in the case that a mission thread does happen it tends to crumble under it's own weight and never finish. Whether it's because it's too drawn out or not fun, or just one or two writers involved stop writing and the whole thing shuts down. Factions create an easy entry point for newcomers, who can just post in the faction and have someone pop out of the shadows, coins jingling, and assist them on joining the group and work up from there on grasping the faction and the entire board in general. Faction roleplays should be easy and not like pulling teeth, as it has become.

I was planning on doing a series of small mission roleplays, like the Imperial Strike Team one I posted recently, with whatever characters I have available. They might be small and relatively pointless in the grand scheme of things, but it would be something to get characters together and build a roleplaying "network". However, I haven't had any success in drumming up people for the roleplay itself, but I think more along this vein would help get the blood flowing. Little scenarios, constructed perhaps in a DnD/SWTOR fashion with good and bad choices that will effect the galactic setting, even if in a minor fashion so that the characters and writers feel like they are attributing toward something instead of just slogging through posts to get it over with.

There's also an issue with plots being devised, the details hammered out, principle writing begins, and then nothing. It dies out. (I'm looking at you Corellia).

On a more positive note, I want to say that what really gets me excited on this board is less the stories and more the people. I can't even explain how pumped I get to write with my SWFans heroes like Charley, Christin, and Holly, among others. The legends I grew up admiring back when I could hardly construct a sentence and was more nuisance than writer. That is always a pleasure, regardless of whether our characters are hiding dead strippers, escaping Kessel, or ensuring the future of the Lupine species.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

^^^a good post

[Crusader]

I guess we should unfriend each other on facebook so that we have to talk about nerdy stuff on the forums again.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Now we're talking!

:P

Facebook killed the message boards?

[Taataani Meorrrei]

Killed the little chat stuff we used to do in some way, but for big stuff I couldn't imagine going to any other medium really

[Tear]

I think its hard to pin down any one point that causes issues for everyone who writes or has written here. If you read this thread its pretty apparent everyone has their own reasons.

For me it boiled down to a few concepts:

Commitment to write I think is the most common issue. It plagues most of us whether it be: Real life commitments or keeping the focus to write something. The reasons continue to vary from legitimate to easy excuses we tell ourselves.

Effort vs Reward is probably the biggest issue for me personally since it can tie into commitment but basically it boils down to if I write this post what do I get out of it? I came back to these boards to write for myself. I had a single story I wanted to tell so that was my primary goal and it fueled me for a good time.

I've lurked since I took a break from writing and watched as things advanced to a point where the story I was trying to tell became irrelevant. Which, while disappointing, is entirely understandable but makes the reward portion for returning to write here difficult. I could return and simply continue my story outside of Swfan's current continuity which does have an appeal from a sense of achievement standpoint, but out of continuity where does that leave the characters/writers that associated themselves with me?

If I went with another path that would re-introduce my story into the current continuity would it still be appealing to write? That also brings me to a second Effort vs Reward notion who is it that I'm writing for now? If its not for personal achievement, than its for others to read my work and dislike or like it, but the issue with that is that these boards are pretty vacant currently. Is writing for the 4-5 writers who frequent the boards regularly enough of a reward?

Hard questions that I wrestle with now and then.

I do want to say Kudos to those that do continue to write with such persistence Charley/Si'l and the others.

I will agree that accessibility is an issue in terms of a handicap because I believe that if you REALLY want to write something you can make it work whatever the means, but that said, not having a good jumping on point into a universe makes things harder and sometimes that extra degree of difficulty is all it takes to remove ones interest.

Watching Southstar (name?) return recently was hard. While it was clear he hadn't really tested the waters or done much research into the current state of politics/powers/characters he did have a lot of hoops to jump through to try and set something up and that can be discouraging.

Also, wheres this SWfans facebook? I didn't know it existed! I see how it is guys!:colbert

[Dasquian Belargic]

I wish I had something useful to post in this reply, but I don't.. I just wanted to let people know that I'm reading and nodding along with some of it.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

"some of it" - very vague word choice there. ;)

I feel like we either fight for the life of the board or we are just agreeing to continue to let it die the death of a thousand paper cuts. *shrug*

[Tear]

What is dead may never die?:dance

[Droo]

Edit: Redacted. On reflection, I don't feel there's anything to be gained from this discussion anymore.