HoloNet Top Trumps

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Now, admittedly I know nothing of Top Trumps, but I know quite a few folks around here do, and so it got me thinking. Back when I was tooling about with making those Fans playing cards, it was bandied about that we should put together a card game with them. Nothing came of it then, but I'm wondering if anyone would want to do so now? We could have a team of folks for figuring out stats and whatnot. I did a small bit of searching online and found LackeyCCG which allows you to create your own online card game to play. After a cursory glance-through it seems easy enough to use, plus it's free.

I did a hefty card redesign, so that hopefully it allows more space for stats and descriptions and whatnot. Attached is an example.

Anyone interested in doing this?


Big ole edit:


The traits as they have been put out -

Prestige
ie. How many people can you boss around?
0 = rookie / solo act - soldiers, mechanics, kids, Jedi Younglings, people with no specific faction
1 = a little bit of prestige - fighter pilots, officers, chief engineers, Jedi Padawans, etc
2 = you are "in command" - of a ship, a famous squadron, a task force, etc
3 = leader/representative of an organisation - Admiral, Senators, Starfighter Corps, Moff, CEO, local Black Sun boss, etc
4 = leader/representative of a sector/culture - Ministers, Grand Moff, Mand'alor, Pride Mother, etc
5 = leader of a galaxy-spanning faction - Alliance, Empire, Black Sun

Experience
ie. How much shit have you lived through?
0 = still a kid, or have been living under a rock
1 = lived through the Galactic Civil War (old enough to remember it)
2 = participated in the Galactic Civil War (fought with the Rebel Alliance, Galactic Empire, was a smuggler during, etc)
3 = lived through the Clone Wars (was alive during, saw it on TV, was a Youngling, age 30+)
4 = participated in the Clone Wars (served the Republic, was a Separatist, fought as a Knight/Padawan, age ~50ish)
5 = was already a veteran during the Clone Wars (participated in earlier stuff, really bloody old)

Savvy
0 = Alley trash / fresh meat
1 = Naive rube who's easily swindled / first tour of duty
2 = Somewhat street savvy / not your first tour of duty
3 = Small-time conman / you know the ins and outs of your fighter
4 = Fast-talker / tours of duty are stacking up
5 = Consummate swindler / high ranking military officer / business CEO

Exotic
ie. How non-normal / non-human are you?
0 = regular ol' human
1 = human with a twist: cybernetics, force sensitive, etc
2 = near-human: a human with a paint job (Mirialan, Zabrak, Chiss, etc)
[*}3 = still a dude in a suit (two arms, two legs, one head), but with brain tails or walrus faces, or a dog head or something
4 = pretty exotic: extra arms, or no legs, or you're a Gand or a Verpine or a Geonosian, or a talking blue squirrel or something
5 = really fucking different: a droid, or a shapeshifter, or a talking space dragon or something

Force Rank
ie. What is your status as far as the Force factions are concerned?
0 = Not Force-Sensitive
1 = Force Sensitive, but no formal training
2 = Jedi Padawan / Sith Apprentice / etc
3 = Jedi Knight / Sith Knight/Warrior / etc
4 = Jedi Master / Sith Lord / etc
5 = Salem Ave / Jedi Council / etc



List Legend:
Not Done * Initial Design Done * Stats Added, Card Complete

The List:

Mara
Saevitia
Kala
Ben
Rossos
Onashi
Vittore
Vansen
Atton
Jaden
Inyos
Ceto
Akasha
Sol
Kale
Loki
Castus
Kes
s'Il
Esalis
Teagan
Sheldon
Dan
Zem
Taa
Cirr
Amos
Tell Cho
Wrath
Trip
Nychus
Regan
Soto
Torrsk
Chir'daki
Tukphen
Glayde

Kori
Dage
Brecklin
Tamera
Kora
KHER
ADAR
Tannis
Aris
Michael Brand
Palara
Idesca
Kazahan
Cerie



I threw in some of my lesser used characters to round out the low-level cards a little bit more.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I've started a list of characters to make cards for, but it is very small.

Post here if you want to be included.

[Ben Merasska]

A card for Ben would be awesome! And one for Onashi. Definitely a card for Onashi.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Wildly enough I made a Ben card and a Rossos card after I did the Castus one, since I'd had them on my list:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/bencard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/bencard.jpg.html)
I hadn't added a faction logo since I wasn't sure what you categorized him as ^_^;

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/rossoscard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/rossoscard.jpg.html)


Also made a Sol card:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/solcard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/solcard.jpg.html)



Working on an Onashi card now :)


edit - Onashi!

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/onashicard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/onashicard.jpg.html)

[Dragon]

These look great, as usual! Thanks so much for including Sol. If you're looking for more, I'd definitely volunteer Kale. Possibly Baastian Cain if you can find a good image of Steve Rogers as Top Cop. Akasha would be cool if you want a Photoshop challenge, but there's a reason I've only done two avatars for her. ^_^;

[Droo]

I love the new design! Reminds me of a certain sexy styleset. :D

If you could include Loki in your list, I'd really appreciate it. Something frowny, I think.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Kale:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/kalecard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/kalecard.jpg.html)


And a rather mussed up Loki:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/lokicard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/kalecard.jpg.html)

[Droo]

Brilliant! And I love that you've used a shot from Snowpiercer. :love

[Dave Skywalker]

These are quite nice :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

I love Top Trumps. Nice work so far :)

[Vince]

Oh man ohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanthosearebrilliant! In terms of Ben's faction... I'd say leave it blank, or maybe have Ben be a 'wildcard' that either faction can use like an artifact in Magic to boost other cards or to perhaps steal other players' cards? Only if one's an Imperial player they have to put Ben in the 'graveyard' when their turn ends. And Onashi looks so bishounen in his card hahahaha.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Ok so Akasha is a tough one. After I don't know how long spent trying to get it to where I thought she looked decent, I was nowhere close to being satisfied, so I opted to do a little bit of searching around. Came across a black panther figure from the Seventh Kingdom toy line, and used her. So it looks like Akasha is a little older ^_^;

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/akashacard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/akashacard.jpg.html)

[Captain Untouchable]

These are looking awesome! :eee


Been thinking about the whole Top Trumps side of this. Top Trumps scores a character on certain traits (strength, intelligence, etc)... but they're often quite subjective, and that could be a bit tricky. Who has a higher intelligence out of Torrsk Oruo'rel and Taataani Meorrrei? Who is stronger, Vansen Tyree or Wyl Staedtler? That's a headache in the making, so we should probably try and stick to stuff that is fairly quantifiable/objective, without too much margin for error... just to make life easier?

Some examples -

Prestige
ie. How many people can you boss around?
0 = you're a solo act - soldiers, civilians, Jedi Youngling, etc
1 = you're in charge of a small group/team/crew - Sergeants, flight leaders, freighter captains, Jedi Padawans, etc
2 = you're in charge of a squad/squadron/department - Lieutenants, chief engineers, Jedi Knights, etc
3 = you're in charge of multiple squads/squadrons/departments - a wing commander, a starship captain, casino manager, Jedi Master, etc
4 = you're in charge of several units - task force commander, regiment commander, leader of a band of pirates, etc
5 = you're in charge of an organisation/group - fleet commander, Admiral, Starfighter Corps, a major corporate CEO, Jedi Council, etc
6 = you represent an entire planet (or similar) - Baroness Administrator, Senate Representative, Black Sun boss for Bespin, etc
7 = you represent an entire race/culture/sector - Ambassador, Senator, Ambassador, Moff, Grand Master of the Jedi Order, a Hutt clan, etc
8 = you represent an entire region of the galaxy - Pride Mother, Mand'alor, Minister, Grand Moff, etc
9 = you lead a major faction - Empress, Chief of State, Black Sun boss, etc
Experience
ie. How much shit have you lived through?
0 = still a kid, or have been living under a rock
1 = lived through the Galactic Civil War (old enough to remember it)
2 = participated in the Galactic Civil War (fought with the Rebel Alliance, Galactic Empire, was a smuggler during, etc)
3 = lived through the Clone Wars (was alive during, saw it on TV, was a Youngling, age 30+)
4 = participated in the Clone Wars (served the Republic, was a Separatist, fought as a Knight/Padawan, age ~50ish)
5 = was already a veteran during the Clone Wars (participated in earlier stuff, really bloody old)
Force Rank
ie. What is your status as far as the Force factions are concerned?
0 = Not Force-Sensitive
1 = Force Sensitive, but no formal training
2 = Jedi Padawan / Sith Apprentice / etc
3 = Jedi Knight / Sith Knight/Warrior / etc
4 = Jedi Master / Sith Lord / etc
5 = Salem Ave / Jedi Council / etc
Exotic
ie. How non-normal / non-human are you?
0 = regular ol' human
1 = human with a twist: cybernetics, force sensitive, etc
2 = near-human: a human with a paint job (Mirialan, Zabrak, Chiss, etc)
3 = still a dude in a suit (two arms, two legs, one head), but with brain tails or walrus faces, or a dog head or something
4 = pretty exotic: extra arms, or no legs, or you're a Gand or a Verpine or a Geonosian, or a talking blue squirrel or something
5 = really fucking different: a droid, or a shapeshifter, or a talking space dragon or something


So, someone like Castus Annen would have a Prestige of 4, an Experience of 2 or 3, a Force Rank of 0, and an Exotic of 3. Someone like Rossos Atrapes meanwhile probably has a Prestige of 8, an Experience of 3, a Force Rank of 4, and an Exotic of 1. If you had Castus vs Rossos in a game of Top Trumps, the person holding Castus would want to pick the Exotic trait, because there's high odds that they will win; any other trait, and the player with Rossos would win.

Something like that would cover most of the bases, maybe... and because Imperials are racists, and because senior politicians usually aren't powerful Jedi, no character will be unbeatable: even if you're Salem Ave or Miranda Tarkin, there are still going to be cards/characters that will trump you.

At least, that's the theory. :uhoh

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

All of that looks great to me, but truthfully I've never even tried to play Top Trumps ^_^;

Having things broken down into simple stats is best, and I think what you've got so far is perfect. Maybe add a fourth category for non-Force users so we can balance it out?

Something like:

I have no idea what to call this
ie. people without the force
0 = Alley trash / fresh meat
1 = Naive rube who's easily swindled / first tour of duty
2 = Somewhat street savvy / not your first tour of duty
3 = Small-time conman / you know the ins and outs of your fighter
4 = Fast-talker / tours of duty are stacking up
5 = Consummate swindler / high ranking military officer / business CEO



Not the best of descriptors, but you get the idea.

edit - oooo I like the Exotic!

[Dragon]

Oh my gosh I love Akasha's look! :D

I really like the idea of going with story-focused character traits rather than ranking characters by who could beat up whom. To make things a little more complex, what if we included a few categories that can be extreme in either direction? If we're using a six-point scale (0-5), that means we have three points on one side of the scale, three on the other. Examples:

CHAOTIC/LAWFUL
0. You're an agent of elemental anarchy. (Milivikal K'vik, Jhyx)
1. Poster child for chronic backstabbing disorder. (Akasha Khan, Sasseeri Reouurra)
2. Scoundrel? Scoundrel? I like the sound of that. (Halajiin Rabeak, Ben Merasska)
3. You're going to get us killed, or worse, expelled! (Cirrseeto Quez)
4. Truth, justice, and the Imperial/Alliance/Jedi way! (Serena Laran, Tannis V'larr)
5. Order is an end unto itself. (Rossos Atrapes, Baastian Cain)

DARK/LIGHT (doesn't have to be limited to Force sensitives)
0. Better to reign in hell. (Darth Decipis (duh), Salem Ave)
1. Destruction and death are the tools of your trade (Lilaena De'Ville, Rossos Atrapes)
2. Will play dirty when tested... or in a bad mood. (Taataani Meorrrei, Akasha Khan)
3. You try to do the right thing. Really, you do. (Halajiin Rabeak, Tannis V'larr)
4. You're a champion for life and liberty. (Abarai Loki, Jorrun Cyer)
5. You're a beacon of light to those around you. (Serena Laran, Navaria Tarkin)


After looking over Dark/Light again, it seems too close to chaotic/lawful in its categories. Maybe instead something that quantifies your faction loyalty? It should be possible for someone like Byl Laprovik to be low on morality but high on loyalty to the Alliance, and for someone like Baastian Cain to have a strong moral center that's rooted in loyalty to the Empire.

[Captain Untouchable]

Don't forget that there is a versus aspect to this game: and generally speaking, bigger numbers are going to win. With something like Light/Dark or Law/Chaos... whichever alignment you assign to 0 is going to lose by comparison. It has to be a linear scale where 0 = worst and 5 = best, otherwise it doesn't translate into the game mechanic.

We also need to be careful about game balance: having lots of traits is great, but we need to make sure that if a character has really high scores in some, they're going to have really low score in others. In legit Star Wars Top Trumps, they have things like height in there, so that a super powerful Jedi like Yoda has a chance of losing if your opponent is holding a Wookiee. Hence my "Exotic" trait: as it stands at the moment, if a character is both politically powerful and Force powerful, they are a human and thus "lose" on Exotic; or Navaria Tarkin and Salem Ave can lose out to Vansen Tyree or Meiers Brecklin because of their age, etc.

If we want to stick to a 0-5 scale, we could tweak Prestige to -

Prestige
ie. How many people can you boss around?
0 = rookie / solo act - soldiers, mechanics, kids, Jedi Younglings, people with no specific faction
1 = a little bit of prestige - fighter pilots, officers, chief engineers, Jedi Padawans, etc
2 = you are "in command" - of a ship, a famous squadron, a task force, etc
3 = leader/representative of an organisation - Admiral, Senators, Starfighter Corps, Moff, CEO, local Black Sun boss, etc
4 = leader/representative of a sector/culture - Ministers, Grand Moff, Mand'alor, Pride Mother, etc
5 = leader of a galaxy-spanning faction - Alliance, Empire, Black Sun
I like Christin's street smarts trait, though. It might make sense to focus on the smarts/cunning ("Savvy"?) aspect of it though, rather than actual status, to avoid it overlapping with Prestige. Someone like Taataani might have a Prestige of 4 because she's a Senator, but a Savvy of 5 because she's a very cunning Senator; whereas Miranda Tarkin has a Prestige of 5 for being Empress, but her Savvy might be lower because she is/was subject to Tear's machinations and plans?

So... Prestige, Experience, Savvy, Exotic, and Force? Five feels like a good number, and it might hopefully leave enough space on the card for a little bit of flavour text / description as well. Maybe even use a little symbol or abbreviation or colour or something, so you can fit the scores up at the top, and have the rest of the space for the descriptiony bit?

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Yay!! So glad you like Akasha ^_^



I like the notion of a faction being quantified, though I would probably only want to see the main two - Alliance and Empire - have any sort of point additions. Like, maybe a +1 addition to your total score? Each faction would give you an additional point, and maybe tip the balance? Or, we could do Alliance one point, and the Empire two, since the Empire has loads more resources?

Either way, this is all sounding completely STELLAR ^_^

I threw together a quick card that has the stats and other things. If something's not right, or needs to be tweaked, just let me know.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/example-1.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/example-1.jpg.html)



edit - another example:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/example2.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/example2.jpg.html)

[Captain Untouchable]

Oh wow, that second one looks REALLY cool! The little starfield background behind the traits looks super cool. :dance

In terms of quantifying factions as part of your total score... what about doing it based on the number of "allies" you have?

As a boost to your overall total, you get an amount based on what the big icon on your character sheet is. The Alliance, Imperials, Hutts, and Chiss (all of whom control BIG portions of space, and thus have big fleets/armies/influence) might grant a +2, to represent the fact that being part of them means there's a lot of resources behind you. Factions like the Jedi, Black Sun, or the Mandalorians / Bounty Hunters Guild might only grant a +1, because while they're still a useful ally to have, they don't have quite the same military resources.

But then, on top of whatever points you're getting for the big icon, you might also get a +1 for every additional faction you are friendly with / could call on for help. Taataani Meorrrei would get +2 from her Alliance icon, but she also friends with the Jedi and has the backing of the Cizerack Pride, so that's another two +1s, for a total of +4. Someone like Sanis Prent would only gain +1 from Black Sun, but would also get a +1 from having Cirr and the Novgorod on speed dial. It also means that someone like Ben Merasska, who would ordinarily get +0 from having no main faction, would have +2 in total because of the friends they have with the Alliance and Jedi.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I like that.

How about this:

Night Cheese is primarily affiliated with the Jedi (and her slanket), but has ties with the Alliance and the Pride (excuse my poor attempt at the Cizerack logo, it's a dirty and quick mockup). The Alliance and Pride notifiers/whatever are situated beside the main affiliation logo, but of course smaller and packed into the name bar.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/example3.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/example3.jpg.html)




edit - or, instead of in the name bar, they're down below the main stats and have the additions beside them:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/example4.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/example4.jpg.html)

[Captain Untouchable]

Having the little icons in the name bar looks really cool, but that might get a bit tight for space if someone has a lot of icons and/or a long name?

Just thinking out loud... how would it look having them (maybe in little circles, maybe just outlined?) in the bottom left corner of the image itself, just above the name? That bottom left corner shouldn't get in the way of any of the ones you've made so far, I don't think.

Also for brain info dump/purge purposes, all of the possible mini icon allies I can think of -

- Galactic Empire
- Alliance to Restore the Republic
- Chiss Ascendancy (no one has this yet, but we have talked about revisiting Imperial/Chiss stuff as a post-Starkiller thing)
- Hutt Cartel
- Black Sun
- Jedi Order
- The Circle
- Mandalorians / Bounty Hunters Guild
- Corporate Sector Authority

Maybe something for Emelie Shadowstar's little network of people? Sarah and I decided on calling it "The Exchange", named after this (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Exchange), which has a cool little logo.

Perhaps something for the Imperial Knights and/or the Inquisitors? The logo (usually in red) of the Sith Empire (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Empire_%28Post%E2%80%93Great_Hyperspace_War%2 9) from the SWTOR game is (intentionally) quite similar to the Imperial logo. Maybe that would work for "Imperial-aligned Force Users"?

Possibly also a little catch-all pirates/underworld type logo, for anyone who has criminal allies (part of a pirate band, mercenary band, etc) that isn't Black Sun or Hutt affiliated? Maybe a little skull and crossbones, or maybe the logo for the Zann Consortium (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zann_Consortium) since it's useful and straight liney?

Maybe something for the Tion Cluster? There isn't a specific logo for the Tion Hegemony or the Cronese Mandate as far as I can tell, but the Santhe Family (as in Santhe Corporation, Santhe/Sienar Technologies, etc) are one of the dominant groups politically and militarily, and their logos (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Santhe/Sienar_Technologies) for all their corporations have that cool little oval/S type symbol going on, which kinda looks like a stylised spiral galaxy too, if you squint at it?

Maybe a little Cloud City logo, for the Baroness Administrator, the Moff, the CEOs / New Corporate Sector / etc type people (there are a few)?


I realise that's a lot, but the more variety we have, the more of an interesting curveball it's going to be when people are making use of those points/scores. :uhoh

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Like this?

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/example5.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/example5.jpg.html)

[Kassandra Distorith]

That looks AMAZING! Damn...seriously.

If you need more to do, I'll love you long time for a Kala card, a Kass card, and a Mara card ^_^

[Captain Untouchable]

Exactly like that! :ohno

These are looking awesomely cool. :dance

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Putting Kala, Kass, and Mara on my list :)



Some of the logos. I subbed the Hutt one for the Hapan one, since I haven't found a suitable Hutt logo yet.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/faction-additions.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/faction-additions.jpg.html)

[Droo]

Christin, you're a wonderful creative machine.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Awww, thanks :hug

[Captain Untouchable]

The Hutt logo that I've been using on wiki pages is this one (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/mentalpatient627/media/HuttCartleSymbol.jpg.html). No idea where it's from, but very time I've tried to look for one, I see this logo (or some variation thereof) over and over so... fan consensus, at least? >_>;

I just some new Star Wars nerd books in the mail though, so I'll let you know if I find anything proper!


Oh, and in terms of characters on lists and things... all of them? But Vittore, Inyos, Atton, Ceto, Jaden, and Vansen are probably the ones I'm (intending to be) more active with currently. :uhoh

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Kala:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/kalacard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/kalacard.jpg.html)

Mara:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/maracard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/kalacard.jpg.html)

Vansen:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/vansencard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/kalacard.jpg.html)

Jaden:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/jadencard2.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/jadencard2.jpg.html)

Bonus Jaden:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/jadencard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/jadencard.jpg.html)
(haw haw)

Kes:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/kescard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/kescard.jpg.html)





To do:
Kass
Vittore
Inyos
Atton
Ceto

[Jaden Luka]

Oh, I'm sorry! I didn't realise how this machine worked! :uhoh


:lol :love

[Dee]

OMG....so much awesome in that post! :eee

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Thanks :)

Beeteedubs, who is Kass' image claim, and what's her full name? I tried looking in the memberlist, and didn't find anyone other than two that I don't suspect to be you ^_^;



Ceto:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/cetocard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/cetocard.jpg.html)

Atton:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/attoncard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/cetocard.jpg.html)

Vittore:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/vittorecard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/cetocard.jpg.html)

Inyos:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/inyoscard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/cetocard.jpg.html)

Inyos alt:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/inyoscard2.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/cetocard.jpg.html)

[Kala'ndryl Ryj]

Kass is Monica Bellucci :)

Just beware on image searches for her...she has not met a camera she will not strip for, bless her *lol*

[Reginald Nil’vak]

Just to clarify for poor Christin as well...

"Kass" = Kassandra (So sorry, do not know her surname. Dee? More clarification?) = Darth Saevitia = She who will probably kill me at some point if I do not kill her first :uhoh

[Kassandra Distorith]

Kassandra Distorith is my full name, but I'd say save for Reginald, no one else knows that. Either Darth Saevitia or Kassandra will do ^_^

*licks Reginald*

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Ah, ok gotcha :) I'll stick with Darth Saevitia. I went trawling the member list for your image claim and was starting to get confused ^_^;

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Darth Saevitia:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/saevitiacard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/saevitiacard.jpg.html)





So far the list stands as such:
Atton
Jaden
Ceto
Inyos
Ben
Rossos
Onashi
Loki
Kale
Akasha
Sol
Saevitia
Kala
Mara
Vittore
Vansen
Castus
Kes


Would anyone be game to start trying to determine ranking/etc?

[Dragon]

I'll take a stab at my triumvirate...


Sol (15)
Prestige: 3
Experience: 4
Savvy: 2
Exotic: 1
Force: 4

+ 1 Jedi Order (main)

Solomon is a Jedi Council member, which could potentially bump him up to a 5 for Force or a 4 for Prestige, but he doesn't seek fame or power, so I don't feel either is a priority. I interpreted Savvy as being more about practical knowledge/deviousness than wisdom.

Kale (10)
Prestige: 0
Experience: 1
Savvy: 4
Exotic: 1
Force: 2

+ 1 Scoundrel (main)
+ 1 Jedi Order

I was debating whether to include the Jedi connection, but that is where I was planning on sending him eventually. I'm tempted to also throw in a -1 for being hunted by Black Sun. :lol

Akasha (13)
Prestige: 1
Experience: 1
Savvy: 3
Exotic: 4
Force: 2

+1 The Circle (Main)
+1 The Jedi Order

You could argue that Akasha could be somebody in a suit, but I feel like she's feline enough - hunts for prey at night, moves as easily on fours as on twos, half humanoid lifespan - to tip the balance. Savvy could potentially be raised to four given her history of subterfuge, and if I ever actually get her out of the Jedi, she'll be knight-level soon.

On second thought, now that I see her allegiances included, there is no way her tally should be anything different than what it is now. :)

[Vince]

I don't really trust myself ranking my own characters. That said, I'm about to rank my own characters.

Ben (7)
Prestige: 0
Experience: 3
Savvy: 2
Exotic: 0
Force: 0


+1 Scoundrel (main)
+1 Cizerack(?)


Ben should probably have an experience rank of 2, but the tag-line "How much shit have you lived through?" saw me bumping it up. He's a pretty lacklustre card though, isn't he? I put Cizerack as a question mark because Ben's most recent adventures have left him burning more than a few bridges, among them his Alliance friends and Cirr and Taa. He has done jobs for Black Sun, but since it wasn't RPed, nor does it figure too heavily in his past or current arc (yet?), so that wasn't figured in also.

Rossos (18)
Prestige: 4
Experience: 3
Savvy: 3
Exotic:1
Force: 4

+2 Galactic Empire
+1 Imperial Knights


All I did was tweak Jace's rankings of Rossos in an earlier post. I gave him a Savvy score of 3 based on his getting the Knights set up and for his time as an Inquisitor, but he could bump down to 2 because those might not really impact Savvy.

Onashi (9)
Prestige: 0
Experience: 2
Savvy: 4
Exotic: 0
Force: 0

+1 Alliance
+1 Scoundrel (main)
+1 Cizerack


If I finally end up doing an arc where Onashi finds or discovers the Matukai discipline (but different because Onashi is not what one could call a hermit of any kind), he could have his Force rank bumped up to 1. I debated giving him a 'bounty hunter' affiliation due to his long tenure as a mercenary, but in the end since he was mainly working for the alliance and with the Cizerack after, I removed it.

Now that I think on it though a Palara card could be pretty cool. Putting up other characters of mine because they'd be cool and add variety, but also because this is a cool thought exercise for me.

Palara Iscandar (17)
Prestige: 2
Experience: 2
Savvy: 3
Exotic: 3
Force: 3

+2 Galactic Empire (main)
+1 Imperial Knights
+1 Scoundrel
(+1 Jedi Order?)


Jedi Order is there despite her affiliation because of her connections with Wei and Solomon, which have shown that she and they can work together. However, I've kept it off the count because of the issues of affiliation and weighting.

Kazahan (11)
Prestige: 1
Experience: 2
Savvy: 2
Exotic: 3
Force: 2

+1 Jedi Order (main)


Tell Cho (22)
Prestige: 3 (4?)
Experience: 4
Savvy: 4
Exotic: 3
Force: 4

+2 Alliance
+1 CSA
+1 Jedi Order


Cho is obviously too overpowered for Top Trumps Holonet style. I bumped his Prestige down to 3, even though he's the leader/representative of a Culture: the Gossam. I gave him a really high Savvy score based on his nearly lifelong deception and hiding of his former status as a Jedi, and rising to head the CSA, and senatorial shenanigans.

Ettagar Veir (8)
Prestige: 0
Experience: 2
Savvy: 4
Exotic: 0
Force: 0

+1 Bounty Hunter (main)
+1 Scoundrel


Kiera Sontebren (7)
Prestige: 0
Experience: 2
Savvy: 3
Exotic: 0
Force: 0

+2 Alliance

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Awesome :D

I'll put my stats together tonight when I get home.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Castus
Prestige: 3
Experience: 2
Savvy: 2
Exotic: 3
Force: 0
Bonus:
Alliance +2

*For the time being I don't see Castus having any interaction with anyone other than Alliance folk. That will probably change in the future, but for now I think he's good as stands.


Kes
Prestige: 3
Experience: 3
Savvy: 4
Exotic: 0
Force: 0
Bonus:
Alliance +2
Jedi +1
Cizerack +1

*We should have a multiplier for gingers :p

[Taataani Meorrrei]

I'm loving all of these. If you feel like doing any of my characters, take your pick of the litter. I'd love to see your end results

[Captain Untouchable]

Does ginger count as exotic? :P

Castus should maybe have a Savvy of 3, given the link between Savvy and military rank, if he's going to be in charge of Task Force 42, etc.

Also, Andrew and Vince - don't forget to point out which little icons you need! :)


Atton Kira (13)
Prestige: 1
Experience: 4
Savvy: 5
Exotic: 0
Force: 0
Tally:
+1 Exchange (main)
+1 Black Sun
+1 Scoundrel
Savvy might seem a little high, but he's an information broker with all sorts of criminal connections, and is definitely a "consummate swindler". Feels like Savvy is probably going to end up quite top-heavy for a lot of characters, so it should balance out fairly well.

Jaden Luka (9)
Prestige: 2
Experience: 2
Savvy: 3
Exotic: 0
Force: 0
+2 Alliance
Technically isn't a commander, but since he used to be in Rogue Squadron I bumped his prestige to 2.

Ceto Rübezahl (15?)
Prestige: 3
Experience: 3
Savvy: 5
Exotic: 0
Force: 0
+2 Empire
+1 CSA
+1 Cloud City?
I'm assuming that the CSA icon is a catch-all "corporate/business" thing (so it includes businessmen on Cloud City, but also people like Taataani, etc), in the same way that the Zann Consortium logo is a catch-all for scoundrels/underworld... rather than being specifically for the geographic Corporate Sector. Cloud City might be a sense-makey icon, to match with the Jedi and Hapes "Homeworlds" effectively getting their own icon.

Inyos Aamoran (14)
Prestige: 2
Experience: 4
Savvy: 2
Exotic: 1
Force: 3
+1 Jedi Order (main)
+1 Exchange or will be, in a thread or so
Echoing Andrew's logic, by having a lower Savvy rank to account for the whole lots of wisdom / not so much practical skills thing.

Vittore Montegue (12)
Prestige: 0
Experience: 3
Savvy: 4
Exotic: 1 *
Force: 1 *
+1 Exchange
+1 Bounty Hunter
+1 Scoundrel
Technically he doesn't know he's Force Sensitive yet, but he is... so it probably makes sense to mark his card as such, rather than have to fiddle with it later?

Vansen Tyree (16?)
Prestige: 3
Experience: 5
Savvy: 5
Exotic: 0
Force: 0
+2 Alliance
+1 Jedi? because he commanded the Wheel, so has Jedi allies/friends because of that?
+1 Cizerack? if Taataani succeeds in adding him to her pokémon/husband collection?
* * *

Based on the Tally, things seem to be balancing relatively well. It's interesting that characters like Ceto, Vansen, and Kes are getting their edge (from a tally perspective) based on the icons they have. That suggests that maybe the icons are going to wind up being an important part of the game.

The action figures I recently bought included a game similar to top trumps, with little character cards and such. Rather than the players deciding which field to compare though, they had a dice to make the selection: and we have six areas of assessment (five ranks, and the tally). Perhaps that gives us two modes of play: 1v1 mode, where you have one card in your hand, and you pick which field is more likely to win; and dice mode, where you have several cards in your hand but the dice picks which field, and you get to be a bit more strategic/tactical (sacrifice a low Savvy card in order to save your high Force card for later, etc).

If the icons are going to be important, we could maybe get away with a little extra variety? Adding in one for Cloud City and one for the Jovan Station might be a good idea: it rewards/recognises the characters that are in some of the larger group settings, and also adds a little variety for the Imperial-affiliated characters (since Jedi / Cizerack / Hapes / etc are fairly Alliance-orientated).


We seem to be a bit lacking in low-tally cards at the moment though, and we don't have much in the exotic field either. If you fancy adding some more of mine to help flesh that out a bit, some combination of... Amos Iakona, Ambassador Wrath, Chir'daki, Nychus Antirr, Regan Altink, Soto Terius, Torrsk Oruo'rel, Tukphen, and Trip (the droid) might help with that a little bit. I'm sure Sarah would be happy to have some of her characters done too... though some of her characters need awkward hair change tweak thingies, so you might need to pester her about that. :uhoh

Mandan Hidatsa might be a good one too (since he's all sparkly glowy - Hi Charley, meesa love you!)... though maybe we want to do Clone Wars era versions of a few characters (Vansen, Sol, s'Ilancy, etc?) to add some extra low level cards? Or is that something we want to save for an "expansion pack" at a later date?

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I can bump it to 3; I wasn't sure so I made a safe bet on 2.

Clone Wars era cards should definitely be an expansion pack, I think. Will allow us to be able to offer more as time goes on.


Also, I'm going to go ahead and add the prestige, xp, etc into the first post, as well as the list of characters who are done and need to be done.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Just a thought, but perhaps we can have some Sith be another expansion pack? Like Decepis, Callidus (if Jones wants in), Acera, and any other that has/had an alternate identity?

[Captain Untouchable]

Savvy seems like a stat where it makes sense to round up if necessary. If most corporate CEO, military strategist, intelligence officer, Senator, politician, etc type characters are going to wind up around the 4 or 5 mark (which makes sense in terms of practical and/or tactical intelligence), it sorta shunts the bell curve higher up. With something like Force on the other hand, it probably makes sense to err on the side of caution, because a 5 is presumably someone exceptionally powerful. Similarly, with Prestige you'd probably want to shoot under, so that the exceptional Chief of State / Empress / etc type leaders stand out; whereas Exotic you can probably shoot over when in doubt, because the vast majority of people are gonna be 0 or 1.


The Darth cards is a really cool idea - a really cool idea that we should 100% definitely do. That said, it might get a smidge complicated from a stats perspective, particularly with people like Dan and Salem.

To use an entirely unrelated example: imagine we were making a superhero version of this game, and instead of thinking about Dan Thule and Darth Decepis, we were thinking about Clark Kent and Superman. There are two approaches to making that Clark Kent card: either you make the card from an audience perspective, and acknowledge that Clak Kent is secretly Kryptonian; or you make it from a man on the street perspective, and pretend that Clark Kent is a feeble bumbling human farm boy from Kansas. Do you base his stats on the premise that he has super strength and is bulletproof, or do you give him the stats that everyone is supposed to think he has?

For s'Ilancy, you can make her non-Sith card from a post-Dan perspective (no references to the Sith, etc), and that makes complete logical sense, because she stopped having those connections. But for Dan, the fact that Darth Decepis = Dan Thule, the fact that he has infiltrated the Alliance and has control of his own Task Force... that's all part of who the character is. When it comes to working out the stats for the Dan card, do we go from the in-universe angle, and pretend he's a farm boy from Kansas (ie. Force = 0), or do we go from the audience angle and acknowledge the fact that he's secretly Kryptonian (ie. Force = 5)?

If we weren't going to make Darth cards, we would absolutely go the Kryptonian route with Dan and Salem; and maybe that's the route we want to go across the board, and factor in everyone's secret everything. If we're definitely doing Darth cards, we might (but not necessarily) want to go the Kansas route, so that (as with Lok vs Acera) there are more noticeable differences between Darth cards and secret identity cards. And if we're going to factor in that duality, would it make more sense to put the Darth cards in the base game, so that both halves are included rather than only 50%?

Not advocating one option or the other, just pointing them out. It's the kind of thing that makes life easier if you can factor it in from the start, rather than having to go back and alter things later. Andrew might want to tweak Akasha's card for example, to present her as a Jedi Padawan rather than an undercover Sith... etc etc.

[Captain Untouchable]

Just spotted your edits, Vince! Thinking out loud -

Ben
- Would he not have an Alliance icon as well? He does have friends (or at least acquaintances) within the Alliance that he could probably call for help, which is sort of the kind of thing we're representing with the icons.

Rossos
- Probably needs the Imperial Knight icon as well as the Galactic Empire one. The tricky question is... should his main faction be Empire (so he gets +2 from the Empire icon), or should his main one be the Knights (giving him only +1 from having a small Empire icon)? I am guessing that if s'Ilancy had a card, it would prioritise Alliance as her faction (rather than Jedi), so I'd suggest going for that (slightly higher scoring) option for Rossos, in the interests of balance/etc?

Tell Cho
- Leader of a "culture" is a tricky one. When I phrased it that way, I was thinking of things like leaders of the Jedi, the Chiss, Mand'alor, the Pride Mother, and that sort of thing: cultures that control a region of space, but aren't prestigious enough to be on a par with the Empress, etc. Short version: I concur with your 3, just wanted to clarify that vague bit of phrasing on my part. :)

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I would lean more towards the separation Kansas/Kryptonian route, to be honest. The way that I was thinking they could be played was that if you happen to get two cards of the same person, you have to choose which one you want to use, and put the one you don't want back in the pile, then get yourself another card. This way you can't use a character and their alt at the same time, having to discard one. The notion of having to choose which one you want seems pretty nifty to me.

I think that they don't necessarily have to be included in the main deck, since their alt cards will already be in there. I don't really see it as a 50% lacking sort of thing, since Sith have always seemed apart form the galaxy until they feel the need to step forward, and we'd only be giving that a little bit of real world acknowledgement by making a Darth expansion :)

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Palara:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/palaracard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/palaracard.jpg.html)

Kazahan:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/kazahancard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/palaracard.jpg.html)
I took a stab at his lightsaber color; let me know if it's the right color :)

Cerie:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/ceriecard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/palaracard.jpg.html)

[Captain Untouchable]

Picking which version to use out of s'Ilancy and Acera makes sense, because those two cards are quite different. But it doesn't really work for Dan or Salem?

A Kansas version of Dan only gets a 2 for Prestige, because he's only in charge of a Task Force. His Experience is a 4/5 (because old), his Savvy is a 4/5 (because high ranking military officer)... but his Exotic is 0 and his Force is 0, because as far as anyone knows he is a vanilla human. He also only gets an Alliance icon. All told, that is a Tally of 12 to 14 points: pretty unassuming, really.

By contrast, Darth Decepis would have a higher Prestige for being a Sith Lord, he would absolutely have maxed out Savvy and Experience (if he didn't already), he gets a point of Exotic, and his Force score is going to be a 4/5 because he's friggin' powerful. He gains a Sith icon, but because controlling Alliance forces is a MAJOR aspect of his character, one could argue that he still deserves the full +2 (he literally has Alliance forces at his disposal). All in all, that gives you a Tally of somewhere in the region of 23: quite probably one of the most high-scoring cards in the game.

If you were given the choice between the General Dan and Darth Decepis cards in your hand... there isn't a choice: you would always discard General Dan and play Darth Decepis, because he is lower scoring across the board. Salem is the same sort of thing.



Alternatively, if we go the Kryptonian route for Dan and Salem, then okay, both cards have (save perhaps for a fluctuation of a point or two) the same stats, and it becomes more of a matter of personal preference when you choose Callidus over Dan; but at least there'd be a purpose for the choice. Also, this kind of thing only affects "Kryptonian" characters like Dan and Salem... for s'Ilancy, she absolutely could/would have big differences between the s'Ilancy and Acera cards.

Also, if we go the Kryptonian route, it doesn't necessarily have to be limited to a "Darths" expansion pack, either. A lot of people ave callsigns and codenames: perhaps an "Aliases" expansion pack, that has callsign cards for people like Jamo and Jaden? For some people (as with Dan and Salem) it would be an aesthetic difference, but Jaden might have some subtle differences in terms of his Prestige and faction icons; and with Jamo, presumably the "Jamo Jakatta" card reflects the fact that he has quit the Alliance and is a Corellia terrorist, whereas the "Joker" card might preserve those Alliance traits, etc.


Not trying to nitpick on ideas, just trying to think in terms of game balance, etc. :)

[Dragon]

One possible solution would be to complicate the game mechanics. What if, in addition to your allegiance icons, you have... for lack of a better idea on what to call it, a nemesis icon? For the sake of argument, let's say Sol has a Sith nemesis icon. It means that if he's played against a Sith character, the Sith allegiance actually counts against that character for whatever stat you've chosen.

We could go in a lot of directions with this. Rossos might be a nemesis for Jedi. A Cizerack military character might be a nemesis for scoundrels. Not every character would have to have a nemesis icon; it would be a little addition to make certain cards potentially more valuable. It also makes it so having multiple allegiances can be a liability - Akasha would be vulnerable to either Sol or Rossos.

It would take some playtesting to get the balance right, but I think it adds a bit of intrigue to the character choices.

For that matter, are there any variations on Top Trumps where you play more than one card at a time? Could there be a round where you had to play a hand of three, and the best combined Prestige wins? If so, I think there's some potential for some more significance to allegiances - maybe certain loyalties can't be played together. For instance, Cizerack and Scoundrel, Alliance and Empire, Jedi and Sith... unless it's Akasha, who swings both ways.

[Captain Untouchable]

I'm not sure how that necessarily is a solution?

If I understand what you're saying, then if you were to play your Sol card with it's Sith nemesis, Darth Decepis would be one point less good. That certainly makes a powerful card ever so slightly less powerful, but it doesn't really help make the Dan card less universally inferior. Reducing the Force on Decepis by one still vastly outweighs what Dan has. On the fipside, if we're going with the Kansas version of Dan, he can't have the Jedi as his nemesis (because you're not supposed to know that he hates the Jedi), so this mechanic doesn't give him any advantages either, and he would have a weakness/vulnerability against anyone with Alliance as their nemesis. If anything, it's the opposite of a solution: it just makes Kansas Dan less useful.

It's an interesting idea, but I think we're straying too far towards overcomplicated territory. Coming up with a complicated game would be incredibly fun... but it's not the silly, easy to explain, play-when-drunk sort of game that I think we're aiming for. We want it to be as accessible and easy to play as possible; "Here, read this instruction manual on the special rules for special cases" is a little too involved, IMO.

Maybe it's something to explore as part of an "Advanced Rule Set" for later on, rather than something for the basic game?

[Vince]

Palara and Kazahan look awesome! And that's actually the color I was going to go with for him; something about green signifying a connection with the Living Force and blue for the Unifying. It was some idea I'd heard a while back that stuck with me.

As far as making some cards viable, perhaps we can do a variation on nemesis. Some cards could be clearly marked "linking cards", that could be played with others to boost their or another's scores. Not all of them would be, obviously, but some, like Dan or Salem or even Ben and Kale could be useful and even preferred in some cases for stacking or boosting the scores of other cards.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Linking select cards would be a nifty thing, and would be a neat way to boost some cards that might not have a lot on their own.

I still don't really see the need to combine Sith with their alter egos into one card, as I feel that takes away from the variety. Sure, those alter ego cards won't be as powerful, but they aren't really meant to be as strong as their true forms. If we do a card linking option, I think that would be a good thing for those types of cards.

[Captain Untouchable]

It just feels "wrong", I guess?

Almost no one in the galaxy is going to ever know who Darth Decepis is. Sure, so maybe the name will get spread around, but it'll be a footnote. It wasn't Darth Decepis who launched an attack on the Jedi, it wasn't Decepis who infiltrated the Alliance and manipulated the trust and loyalty of an entire Task Force; it isn't Decepis who is the villain of the story. Whether you look at it from an in universe perspective, or an audience perspective, it's Dan who everyone is going to think of when they think of those actions. Having a card that represents Dan as a generic good guy doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like it's an apt or appropriate representation of the character. It'd be like having a Vansen Tyree card with two eyes; it's just not what - to me at least - the character is about.

And I'm really uneasy about all this rule complication. Didn't we pick Top Trumps for it's sheer simplicity? If we want something more complicated, we're better off hopping bak to square one and doing it properly, rather than trying to kludge a simple game into something that isn't.

[Charley]

I'm not exactly sure how the game is played, but what if you had it on these alter ego cards that you could only play the powerful one if you also had the less powerful one in your hand? So that if you had Callidus Salem Taataani you could play all three but if you had Callidus Sol Taataani you could only potentially play Sol and Taataani?

[Dragon]

My suggestions were mainly coming out of trying to suss out a game mechanic for the different factions, but I can definitely appreciate how that's trying to turn Top Trumps into something it's not. Jace suggested the idea of an advanced rules set for an alternate mode of play, and I think there's a really simple way that could work.

Task Force Games, the publishers of Star Fleet Battles, published a related card game called Star Fleet Missions (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Fleet_Missions) that had 16 ship cards for each of 6 races. Every ship has ratings in five categories: Space Combat, Marines, Diplomacy, Science, and Cargo. You could very easily play Top Trumps with the ship deck, but there's also a mission deck.

Every player draws five ships from a shuffled deck. Then you draw a mission card, which lays out a scenario and gives the victory conditions - highest combination of Space Combat and Diplomacy wins, for instance. Everyone plays a card (or two or three, depending on the mission), and the highest total takes the mission. Then everyone draws back up to five ships and keeps going.

I don't think we need to mess with the mechanics of Top Trumps, and our cards are already set up pretty well for our own "Holo.net Missions" game. All we'd need to do is come up with some missions. We'd also have the added bonus of imagining a story where Vansen Tyree teams up with Draiya to hunt down a marauding band of Tusken Raiders. :)

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Soto:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/sotocard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/sotocard.jpg.html)

Nychus:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/nychuscard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/sotocard.jpg.html)

Chir'daki:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/chirdakicard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/sotocard.jpg.html)

Regan:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/regancard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/sotocard.jpg.html)

Idesca:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/idescacard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/sotocard.jpg.html)

[Vince]

It just feels "wrong", I guess?

And I'm really uneasy about all this rule complication. Didn't we pick Top Trumps for it's sheer simplicity? If we want something more complicated, we're better off hopping bak to square one and doing it properly, rather than trying to kludge a simple game into something that isn't.

You do have a point.

I guess the thing for me is that most of my characters, and Ben especially (Onashi is the second most in my opinion) are largely defined by their relationships with other characters. It's sort like you said: that's what those characters are about. Sure they have their own stories, but I always find myself lagging behind without someone else's character to write with. They're like mirrors, I guess, where the other character is what they are reflecting (though they'd be really unreliable and flawed mirrors!) I suppose that makes it a gut reaction for me to try and translate that into this card game.

I'm not trying to convince you or anything, I just want to say why I was so on board with cluttering up the game with rules. I suppose a "Story" rule-set could be pretty awesome; like that story-telling game that was featured on Tabletop. Pretty simplistic rules for it too for it: whatever cards you have in your hand, have to be a part of your story.

[Captain Untouchable]

Oh man, Soto looks amazing! You are astoundingly good at putting people in Battlestar uniforms. :love

Teeny problem though: I switched Chir'daki's image claim to Idris Elba (using him from the Thor movies, mostly) about a year ago... one of the many things caught up in the backlog for that thread. ^_^;


I don't think we need to mess with the mechanics of Top Trumps, and our cards are already set up pretty well for our own "Holo.net Missions" game. All we'd need to do is come up with some missions. We'd also have the added bonus of imagining a story where Vansen Tyree teams up with Draiya to hunt down a marauding band of Tusken Raiders. :)

I guess the thing for me is that most of my characters, and Ben especially (Onashi is the second most in my opinion) are largely defined by their relationships with other characters. It's sort like you said: that's what those characters are about. Sure they have their own stories, but I always find myself lagging behind without someone else's character to write with. They're like mirrors, I guess, where the other character is what they are reflecting (though they'd be really unreliable and flawed mirrors!) I suppose that makes it a gut reaction for me to try and translate that into this card game.

This I like. I'm all for taking stuff we already have, and imagining a more complicated rule set to go along with it. Not only does that sound like it would be fun to create, but fun to play too, especially if, like Vince suggests, we take some inspiration from... I think it's Fiasco you're referring to, Vince? We played that at one of our nerd gatherings and it is ridiculously fun. I can't wait to hear how quickly Charley's attempt at a Cizerack accent turns into cheesy Indian. :lol

We should definitely be looking for ways to diversify into more complex stuff, especially if it's story related, down the road. Think it's probably safest to learn to bullseye womp rats in our T-16 first though, before we start trying to take out any superweapons. Or... y'know. Some other genre-appropriate version of "walk before you can run". :uhoh


Edit:

More stat thingies!

Soto Terius (11)*
Prestige: 2
Experience: 4
Savvy: 3
Exotic: 0
Force: 0
Tally:
+2 Alliance
+1 Jovan Station (if we add it) *
A Savvy if 3 is probably low balling it a bit for Captain Sisko, but given that he's been bumped down to controlling just the one ship in the wake of the Dan stuff, it felt the most appropriate choice.

Nychus Antirr (10)*
Prestige: 0
Experience: 2
Savvy: 3
Exotic: 3
Force: 0
Tally:
+1 Scoundrel
+1 Imperial *
+1 Cloud City (if we add it) *
I've put an Imperial icon in here for Nychus because... he's not an Imperial now, but he did used to be an Imperial Sector Ranger, and he still uses a lot of his old connections and contacts, still sneaks into the Imperial system with old passwords and things, etc.

Chir'daki (11)*
Prestige: 1
Experience: 2
Savvy: 3
Exotic: 1
Force: 1
Tally:
+1 Bounty Hunter
+1 Black Sun
+1 Scoundrel
+1 Cloud City (if we add it) *
A Savvy if 3 is probably low balling it a bit for Captain Sisko, but given that he's been bumped down to controlling just the one ship in the wake of the Dan stuff, it felt the most appropriate choice.

Regan Altink (8)*
Prestige: 1
Experience: 2
Savvy: 3
Exotic: 0
Force: 0
Tally:
+2 Alliance
+1 Novgorod? Jovan Station? (if we add it) *
Charley and I were talking about the Novgorod being based at Jovan Station, so if we do decide to add faction icons for Jovan / Cloud City / etc, Tink would presumably get that. Kept him with a Savvy of 3, because while he is a technical genius and miracle worker, he also lacks a certain amount of common sense and situational awareness, and I figure that counts against him a little.

Amos Iakona (10)
Prestige: 1
Experience: 2
Savvy: 2
Exotic: 1
Force: 2
Tally:
+1 Jedi
+1 Alliance

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Chir'daki:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/chirdakicard2.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/chirdakicard3.jpg.html)
or
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/chirdakicard3.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/chirdakicard3.jpg.html)

Amos:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/amoscard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/chirdakicard3.jpg.html)

Aris:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/ariscard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/chirdakicard3.jpg.html)

Tannis:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh126/silancy/tanniscard.jpg (http://s255.photobucket.com/user/silancy/media/chirdakicard3.jpg.html)

[Captain Untouchable]

Oh, that's just cruel. I have to choose between Stacker Pentecost and Heimdall? :love

Tannis looks fantastic as well! Holy crap does he make for one suave Imperial. :eek

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Hehe, the Tannis one came out much better than I was expecting. And as for Chir'daki, I figured I'd have a go and see how both looked :)

Glad you like them :)

[Captain Untouchable]

Random realisation: I can't believe I forgot to add John Glayde to the list - wasn't he the first card you made the first time around?! (His image claim is different though; he's Colin Farrell now!)


Okay so... totally curveball thought that came to me while I was on the toilet.

What if instead of nemesis icons, and linking cards... characters have a "special ability" instead, which we describe in the box on the right instead of having flavour text? If you are playing the basic Top Trumps version of the game, you can just ignore that box entirely. If you are playing with Advanced Rules, things are still simple and drunk-proof, because it explains how everything works right there on the card.

Special abilities could be tailored to fit the characters, which is where we get the roleplay element creeping in. We might also have some abilities that only work / work best if you're playing the 1v1 version of the game, and other abilities that only work / work best if you're playing with five cards in your hand at a time. That would shake things up: a card that seems useless in Basic 1v1 play suddenly becomes incredibly useful in Advanced Hand play.

Just to clarify the basic rules: a player (or a dice) picks a trait. If that trait is higher than their opponent's, they "win" their opponent's card, and both cards go to the bottom of their deck. If the traits are equal, the cards go to the bottom of their respective player's deck. Play continues until someone runs out of cards.

Some examples of possible special abilities -

Corellian Statistics:
Never tell me the odds.
This card can treat it's highest scoring trait as if it is the challenged trait.

Fame and Fortune:
Do you know who I am?!
This card can force any challenge to be based on their Tally total.

Got Your Back:
You're not alone.
Play this card from your hand. For the challenged trait, add the score of this card to reinforce any 1 card on the field.

Jedi Hunter:
The Force is strong in this one.
This card gains a +1 bonus on any score, if the opposing card has "Jedi Order" as it's main icon.

Law Enforcer:
Stop, in the name of the law!
This card gains a +1 bonus on any score, for each "Black Sun" or "Scoundrel" icon on the opposing card.

Military Strategist:
Don't you know there's a war on?
When challenged, select any card from your hand with an icon that matches the main icon of the Military Strategist. Respond to the challenge with the new card, and return the Military Strategist to the bottom of your deck.

Sharpshooter:
Shoot first, ask questions later.
Play this card from your hand. If this card has a higher score in the challenged trait, your opponent's card is defeated.

Special Forces:
Only Imperial Stormtroopers are this precise.
This card gains a +1 bonus on any score, if the opposing card's main icon is an enemy faction.


Some examples of play -

Player 1 plays Sol Iman, and chooses Force. Player 2 plays Rossos Atrapes. Both cards have a score of 4; it is a dead heat. Player 2 activates Fame and Fortune, forcing the challenge to a Tally. Rossos has 18 (versus 15). Player 2 wins.

Player 1 plays Ceto Rübezahl, and chooses Prestige. Player 2 plays Soto Terius. Ceto Rubezahl wins with a Prestige of 3 (versus 2). Player 2 activates the Corellian Statistics ability, and treats his Expertise of 4 as the challenged stat. Player 1 responds by activating the Fame and Fortune ability, forcing the challenge to a Tally. Ceto has 15 (versus 11). Player 1 wins.

Player 1 plays Dan Thule, and chooses Experience. Player 2 plays Vansen Tyree. Both cards have a score of 5; it is a dead heat. Player 2 activates the Military Strategist ability, pulling Soto Terius to the field. Player 2 also activates the Got Your Back ability on the Amos Iakona card in his hand, playing that card as reinforcements for Soto Terius. The combined Experience of Amos and Soto is 6 points, which beats Dan's 5. Player 2 wins.



The more abilities we add, the more interesting the tactics will get. There's abilities to make up for weaknesses, but also abilities to negate those abilities. There's combos. There's strategies. And it's all written right there on the card, so there's no rules to remember: just an "Oooh! Oooh!" fumble through your deck for something cool you read a second ago.

It ain't Top Trumps, but it's still a long way short of Magic the Gathering levels of complexity - feel like this is perhaps a good compromise of what everyone has been saying so far? :uhoh

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I added Glayde to the list. I won't be able to get out any cards until Monday evening at the earliest, since I am currently sitting in the airport and on my way to Nevada :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

I want a print and play copy of this game :3