Gotham Reborn?

[Mitch]

Hey, everybody. I know that the Skyrim RP has really taken off, recently, but I'd like to look back a bit at something from last year: the DC RP setting.

I know much of it was run by Jace, and that without him it rather collapsed, but I would like to imagine that if some of us are still interested, it could be resurrected. I would love to return to that setting, with Gotham's "heroes" getting off the ground, and having all sorts of fun in that sort of dark hero enviromnent. I also have a friend who is a massive DC fan, and would be super-interested in joining us for RP. He's never been here before, but I can guarantee he'd be a very welcome asset to our sadly dwindling pool of RP'ers.

For those characters played by people who no longer want to be part of DC, or have just basically vanished, I propose that we be able to take over those roles if given permission, or make a new account for that role if the player is just plain gone, and not going to come back. Yes, that's a little harsh, but in order to really keep things going, there are characters we just plain need to have around.

Any thoughts on this? I wouldn't be able to really get into things until after the 4'th of July weekend, so we do have some time to discuss and see if this is an environment we'd like to return to. I know I still love DC comics, and I want this RP setting to come back.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I would join in.

[Mitch]

Anyone else interested?

And, because of the loss of Jace as an active RP'er, and some of the conflict and drama that happened before, would it be best to simply restart things, or should we try and find a way to pick up where we left off?

I'd be down for bringing back Guy Gardner, who masquerades as both the hero Warrior, and the villain Black Hand. I'll also be bringing back Alan Scott, who in this continuity would have been the Green Lantern back in the cold war era, and actually going back as far as possibly the Korean War. He has long ago retired from being a GL, and his alter-ego was never found out. He runs Gotham Brodcasting Stations, or GBS, and is a billionaire, but is certainly feeling his age, these days.

I am also considering bringing in Deadshot, a hitman for hire, who will work both sides.

Obviously we'll still need:
Batman
Robin(s) & Nightwing
Batgirl?
Green Arrow
Speedy?
Black Canary
Huntress

As well as a police commissioner, and all the other assorted roles. If we are restarting, I think it might be fair to allow people to make a bid for a character they'd like to play this time, who was done by someone either no longer interested in playing, or was never actively played by the previous player. Does this make sense?

As far as villain roles go, I've got a friend who absolutley loves the Suicide Squad, and we could likely cound on him to bring the villainy, which is something we really lacked, before. Every good hero needs a good villain, after all, and he likes the idea of no "big gun" powers in the mix off the bat.

So, thoughts?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I've got Barbara Gordon (going for Barbara/Oracle not Batgirl) and the Mad Hatter in my repertoire.

[Zereth Lancer]

I have no idea who, what, where, or how this roleplay was going before. I never peeked in on it before, but I do have some experience writing DC characters (Mostly Villains) but on the whole I'm not all that knowledgeable about the DC Universe. But seeing as this roleplay appears to be taking place primarily in Gotham I think I'll be okay.

The characters I have experience with are the likes of Deathstroke the Terminator, Victor Zsasz, and Azrael.

[Minnie Starshine]

Is this still going? Would you guys allow powered characters? I'm a big Supergirl fan and have always wanted to write her but never found anywhere I'm allowed >.>

[Captain Untouchable]

I think we'd need to start from scratch on this - we had an account purge recently and a lot of the old DC accounts have gone now.

I'll happily/eagerly write Green Arrow again, though, and I have a ton of ideas for elseworlds / EU type stories. Would be happy to put our heads together and come up with something! (Presumably something where Supergirl wasn't raised on Earth? ;))

Edit:

And Booster Gold. :ohno

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Well if people were here and wanted to save their accounts then they should have done so. :p Always expect the unexpected! this is obviously a joke and please don't take offense

But of course the good news is that even accounts that were from before probably only had a few posts. Re-registering won't be hard, and starting over even less hard because it's a barely used scenario. :)

[Minnie Starshine]

I'm new, don't blame me :p.

I have loads of ideas for writing Supergirl actually (and keeping her relatively balanced in the grand scheme of things). Just never found anywhere I can use them >.>

[Captain Untouchable]

I have an idea for Superman that has been knocking around in my head for years that I figured I'd float out there and see what people think.

The short version is that someone dies, and Superman feels responsible. Maybe it's a low-powered hero, or a powerless hero, or an innocent bystander - someone who (to Superman's mind) died because they weren't taking things seriously enough, that they were being unnecessarily reckless with peoples lives, etc. As a result he becomes overprotective, starts favouring the "more powerful" heroes and/or the ones with skills/training (people like Captain Atom, Green Lantern, Power Girl, etc), and as a result some of the other heroes start getting left with the crappier jobs (petty crime, D-List villains, crowd control, natural disasters) while Superman and his "Justice League Elite" (or whatever we call it) handle all of the world-threatening problems.

I think this is a potentially handy way to explain away some of the more powerful A-List characters aren't being written about (they have more important things to do), but in such a way that it doesn't write them out of the story entirely. Superman can still be part of Supergirl's life, he's just not going to swoop in and save the day like a deus ex machina every thread. Batman can still be part of the story, but perhaps he's up on the Watchtower coordinating things 24/7 and is relying on some of the "lesser" heroes to keep Gotham/etc safe... hell, maybe he's even helping them out on the sly, feeding them intel from the Watchtower but remaining there himself to "keep an eye" on Superman lest his overprotectiveness get too carried away.

I'd certainly be interested in writing that kind of paranoid/guilty perspective on Superman: it's a version of him I've always enjoyed in cartoons and comics and such.

[Minnie Starshine]

Hmm, I'm not sure how I feel about that one. While I obviously agree there has to be a good reason for characters we don't have writers for not to show up and save the day, in a way, that's just comic books. Superman doesn't save the day in 95% of comic books because his name isn't on the cover. We don't need a full excuse.

BUT the idea has some merit for a story to be told. I really dislike it when they make Superman a jerk who suddenly starts bossing people around or assuming more control because of his powers. To me, Superman is like Captain America in personality; he should be the perfect, 'good' guy. Superman has never been about his powers to me, but his morals. But maybe that's because my Mum loved him so much and I watched loads of his shows and stuff with her as a little girl, and it left this really firm impression on me of what being 'good' meant.

So I don't like the idea of him just dismissing people because they don't have powers. Like with Batman. I always liked it when he seemed to look up/admire Batman for his lack of powers and what he did. That sort of basic 'goodness'.

But that said, it's an interesting story that could bring about some interesting conflict. After all, if you live in a world where some people are super powerful, and some aren't, shouldn't you have some responsibility to protect those without powers? It could work, as long as Superman isn't a big dick about it >.>. But it begs more questions; if the problem is we don't want him swooping in saving the day, but he's formed an elite group explicitly to do that when things get too dangerous, it doesn't really excuse him. With that logic, if things get dire, he's MORE expected to show up and go 'this is too dangerous, I'll take it from here' than not to.

[Captain Untouchable]

Long waffly response incoming! ^_^;

I'm not thinking of it in terms of Superman bossing people around, per se. He is definitely the figurehead of the Justice League, but in the majority of depictions he relies on someone like Batman, Martian Manhunter, or Red Tornado to sit up on the Watchtower and do the actual coordinating of who goes to do what. So it's not that he's explicitly said that "Green Arrow isn't allowed to fight supervillains anymore"... it's just that Green Arrow begins to notice he's spending most of his time getting sent to help with earthquakes, fires, prison break-outs, and that sort of thing. I think that actually firewalls Superman from being the kind of jerk you're describing: Superman has the positive/optimistic/hopeful "I just want to keep everyone safe" mentality, but he relies on a realist like Batman or an android like Red Tornado to make the actual calls on who does what.

As far as Superman being a boy scout like Captain America: I don't disagree, but bear in mind that quite often, Superman being a boy scout manifests itself as stopping purse snatchers and rescuing kittens from trees. To keep with the Marvel parallel for a minute, what I'm thinking is more along the lines of Captain America seeing himself as the leader of the Avengers, with international responsibilities and that sort of thing, and he is content to leave people like Spider-Man and Daredevil to deal with problems on the streets because he has "more important things to worry about". It's not that he's a jerk, that he doesn't care, or that he's bossing people around: he trusts the "less powerful" heroes to fight crime and so forth without his interference or meddling... he just feels responsible for everyone's safety, and knowing when to hold someone back for their own wellbeing (and being pragmatic about their skills/capabilities) is sort of a hallmark of leadership.

That said, (spoiler tagged because it's not strictly what I'm getting at) I've always seen Superman as the personification of America, in terms of their reputation on the world's stage. Back in the 40s, they were the heroes that swooped in and helped everyone to fight the Nazis. In the 70s, they were the beacon of democracy that was all bright, and colourful, and protecting the world from Communism and all that bad stuff. Nowadays though, America's reputation is tarnished a little bit. They still feel that they are doing "the right thing", but sometimes their methods are questionable, sometimes they step in where people don't think they should step in, sometimes they do what they believe is right over the objections of others. I actually like that Man of Steel Superman is a little less clean and pristine: that's how American / Western culture is nowadays. You know (or at least hope) that deep down they are doing the right thing... but they exist in a world where clean and star-spangled solutions don't exist any more. That's sort of the headspace I'm coming from in terms of approaching Supes.

In terms of who might die, if we went down this route -


Batman is one option. Him being dead never really seems to stick anyway, but Bruce Wayne is pretty much the poster child for taking stupid risks in spite of the fact that he is a "mere mortal". If that stubbornness to be seen as equal to / superior to the other Leaguers got him killed, it'd be a good motivation for Superman to want to discourage that attitude in others. Also, Batman being dead probably has one of the most significant emotional impacts on the Justice League, because despite his lack of powers no one will believe it's possible. And, it throws open some interesting options for the Batgirls and Robins, and for criminals being opportunistic buttholes in Gotham City.
Barry Allen is another option. Specifically an older Barry Allen (as opposed to Grant Gustin). He is the benevolent vigilante: he does no harm, all he does is help. Someone that "good" dying is arguably more of a blow than Batman, because with Batman you at least know he understood the risks, whereas Barry is often portrayed as a bit more wide-eyed and naive than that. Having an older Barry means there's the option for someone to come along and write a Grant Gustin version of the Flash, as Wally West or Bart Allen, or some other young successor picking up the mantle - which nicely skirts the whole "I want to write young Barry, but that doesn't fit with the rest of the League" thing. Also, there are a lot of speedsters in DC (many of them getting introduced in Season 2 of The Flash), so just like with Batman there's scope for a lot of people trying to live up to his legacy.
Aquaman or Martian Manhunter are both original/important members of the Justice League, and they both have weaknesses that make them the butt of jokes a little bit. Aquaman is often a laughing stock, but his sacrifice puts a stop to all that; and his status as royalty means that him dying is potentially a political tragedy as well as a personal one. J'onn J'onzz meanwhile is pretty much liked by everyone in the League, and the fact that he is (more or less) the last survivor of his race would not only make his death tragic, it also strikes a pretty personal chord with Superman as well. Having either of them die in a fire (their shared weakness) is a pretty solid reminder that some people just aren't cut out for certain missions.
Ted Kord (Blue Beetle) is the poster child for "not taking it too seriously" when it comes to being a vigilante. He's a tech vigilante like Batman, but he has fun with it, he's lovable... and he's also usually dead in most continuities anyway because the bad guys killed him, so nobody is dead that people might expect to not be dead. He's the nice guy that didn't deserve to die... and while it wasn't necessarily his enjoying being a superhero that got him killed, it wouldn't be hard for people like Batman or Superman to (mis)interpret it that way, and blame themselves for not encouraging him harder to take things seriously.

Or, y'know... we have some weird thing where no one is comfortable mentioning who died by name, and just refers to "they" all the time or whatever, which would be awkward but... less prohibitive.

[Minnie Starshine]

I don't think we should kill off any canon character in case people want to come on board and play them. Especially ones in upcoming films/TV shows as that's the type of characters people want to write. I mean, how'd you like it if somebody else decided to kill off Arrow? :p.

See, my opinion of Superman is that he's the type of guy who would never use the phrase 'more important things to do'. He's the guy who thinks saving a kitten from a tree is just as important as stopping Darkseid from destroying the world. The guy who thinks stopping to comfort a suicide jumper is just as important as foiling Lex Luthor. All of that. But I'm not American, so I never tied Superman to American values (despite the famous saying). To me, he always represented just being 'good'.

I don't mind the idea that he leaves street things to street heroes, Marvel style (most of the time, anyway) but I'm still not keen on this whole 'gives other heroes 'lesser' jobs' thing. The Superman I grew up watching would never think helping people during an Earthquake was 'less important' than anything else.

I honestly think it'd just be better to write comic book style. The other heroes are out there, but if they don't turn up, it's because they're off doing their own thing. I'd probably even suggest downplaying the Justice League angle, so most characters are independent and just cross paths while adventuring. We could stick Superman 'off world' for a bit like he's off having some intergalactic adventure, but I think we should just not really mention him and leave it up to somebody to pick him up what he's doing.

Plus with a 'Justice League Elite', there's no reason they wouldn't stick Supergirl in it. Sure, she's inexperienced, and not as powerful as Superman, but she's still Kryptonian.

[Captain Untouchable]

I think you're maybe reading a bit too much in "lesser". I just... can't think of a better word. :lol

The way I see it, it's not a case of Superman thinking that his time is precious. It's not a case of him thinking that things are "beneath him". It's just that he cares so much for the people around him, the people who look up to him as a figurehead, and feels so responsible for having inspired them to take part in this life that he just can't bare the thought of someone else dying because he inspired them to take a risk that they weren't suited for. Everything about that sentiment is noble, and boy scout, and everything you've described Supes as being. The fact that he doesn't participate in street level stuff is because he knows that the other heroes have got it covered. More than that, he knows that some people are a bit bent out of shape (comic book Oliver Queen in particular would hate this), and so he's keeping a "respectful distance" from that stuff. If he is asked for, if someone shouts out his name or activates a signal watch, he will be there faster than a speeding bullet to help out his friends... but he's also conscious that by trying to do everything himself when he is asking people to not do the same thing is a precarious issue.

As far as Kara in the Justice League Elite: don't forget that she's his cousin, and she's still a teenager. She may be bulletproof, but she doesn't know how to fight without throwing cars and accidentally heat visioning through sections of building. She doesn't know strategy. She may not be prepared to deal with someone who has brought kryptonite with them, or to go up against a magic user (which Kryptonians are vulnerable to). It may well be that Superman wants her to be in the Elite, but he wants her to be there on his terms, which means holding her back until she's "ready", asking her to look out for the civilians instead of fighting the main fight - exactly the kind of stuff that a slightly bratty teenage Supergirl would hate. Her going off solo to interact with the other heroes is potentially an act of teenage defiance... her interactions with Green Arrow then become her working with someone who "understands" why Superman's attitude rubs her up the wrong way.

And yeah... we could just do it like the comics, but the comics have dozens of ongoing series telling the story from different angles. A better analogy for us is how the TVs or movies do it... and how many times have you heard someone wonder why Tony Stark didn't get the Avengers to help fight the Mandarin, or why Captain America didn't get the Hulk to come help take down SHIELD... or point out how weird it is that Starling City has had three major disasters/wars and yet no one (no other heroes, no government agencies, no nothing) has offered any kind of support or aid (aside from ARGUS trying to drone strike the city), and how that's going to "break the story" if there's a crossover with Supergirl and we find out that Superman has been part of that storyline all along.

The comics / TV way of doing things isn't necessarily the best way, and personally I'd prefer to have some sort of excuse/explanation in play aside from "they were doing something else" - especially if we're going to end up in Gotham (or wherever) where a different specific vigilante is dominant.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I didn't read all those words because my break at work is almost over, but killing off or purposefully limiting canon characters that no one is playing should be something we avoid. If no ones playing them, great, just don't mention that character and leave it open for whoever might want to play them in the future.

We can have a Super Girl without a Superman, that's fine.

[Zereth Lancer]

I have no idea who, what, where, or how this roleplay was going before. I never peeked in on it before, but I do have some experience writing DC characters (Mostly Villains) but on the whole I'm not all that knowledgeable about the DC Universe. But seeing as this roleplay appears to be taking place primarily in Gotham I think I'll be okay.

The characters I have experience with are the likes of Deathstroke the Terminator, Victor Zsasz, and Azrael.

This is still my response to reigniting this roleplay setting. Also I didn't read all of the discussion above because I'm at work, but I plan to and hopefully weigh in after work. I have a lot of experience writing supers: although namely in the Marvel universe.

[Sleazy]

*shrug*

We started doing stuff where Batman was dead before, because that was the story that people wanted to tell. We started doing stuff where we made a conscientious effort not to include Superman the first time around. We have a Star Wars setting where everyone is dead, and we have a Marvel setting where no one canon ever existed (and where for a while we limited stuff to only mutants instead of the full scope of Marvel). I'm not saying that we should kill people of willy-nilly, but I don't think we should necessarily rule it out just on principle, either. Sometimes settings need a big event like that to crystalise what they're about, and sometimes those limitations make things interesting... so lets get a sense of the kind of setting that people want to write in, and then work backwards from there. No point tying our hands at this early stage by ruling out potential plot devices.

Besides, since when has dying ever stopped a superhero from appearing in a story? ;)

You guys don't seem to like the Superman idea, which is fine. What do you guys want to do, then? :p

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Actually Batman/Bruce Wayne wasn't dead, he was being played by Peter. :)

[Captain Untouchable]

Actually... in one iteration yeah, Peter played Batman. That was when Oliver Queen was the original Robin (as in Robin Hood), and that was the justification for Green Arrow being in Gotham. When we tried to reboot things after that stuff had fizzled out, we were going to go with a Batman who had just died, so that Jenny could write Dick Greyson starting to come into his own; that version had a more comic book style Green Arrow who was coming in to "fill the void" in Gotham until someone else could take over. I'm pretty sure there was an even older attempt to do stuff too (hence my Green Arrow account being from all the way back in 2010).

There's more than one version of what was planned in the past. :)

[Minnie Starshine]

I'm not totally opposed to the Superman idea, I just have reservations, as I explained. But you have countered most of them. And I do like the idea of there being tension about why Kara isn't allowed in. (She's powerful enough, but not skilled/disciplined enough, could lead to fun stories).

I mean, my preference would be to just start writing the characters we want to write how we want to write them (so taking elements from whereever; fan of the TV shows? You can take inspiration from there. Prefer the comics? Use them. Movies? Great! etc.). And then just let us sort of 'create' the universe by writing how we like to write those characters and watch how they respond to each other. Then, after we've done a few threads, THEN sort out the wider backstory as to where the heroes we DON'T get picked up are.

Because somebody might pick up Batman or Superman. We don't know yet.

[Zereth Lancer]

Alright. Read through the discussion. Great points made from all sides.

I've written a lot of Marvel. I mean. ALOT. Mostly X-Men but with the success of the Marvel Cinematic Universe I've done a lot of All Marvel; usually based within the Movie-Verse because the comics are all over the place, inconsistent, and have gaping plot holes and the movies provide a great framework. We don't have that option here so much with DC. Yet. I've both created boards, plotlines, and helped others in the process. There are always tangles to pull out. Characters that are too strong to allow people to play (Apocalypse, Odin, Onslaught, etc) or characters who are really powerful and need to be restricted to writers who can handle keeping them in check and not godmoding (Magneto, Vision, Scarlet Witch, etc). That's pretty minor. I doubt anyone where is going to be shooting to play Lobo or some other mega strong DC character.

The other issue that comes up more often than not when I've written on Marvel boards is Key Characters whom nobody wants to play. I'm talking Professor X and Magneto specifically as prime examples. They're old, very powerful, and nobody really wants to take the huge burden of writing those characters. Their lore doesn't fit into our world anymore. They'd be ancient if they were young during WWII and still alive in 2015. When nobody wants to write them the Brotherhood Faction and X-Men grind to a halt. However, by removing them you can stick the team captains (Mystique, Cyclops) into the leadership position and retire the old characters. You can do it however you want. Send them away, kill them, whatever serves the underlining plot the best.

I am all for that tactic when it comes to key characters that nobody wants to play, or are too powerful to allow to be played. I will say that Superman definitely falls under this category. Due to how small this little general roleplay will be in terms of writers, I doubt anyone will pick up Superman. For Batman I think he is totally fine for the roleplay but if we do not have someone writing Batman than a portion of the Gotham Scene will grind to a halt, or the Bat-Family characters will just have to NPC write him which is never fun. I don't think we should kill him unless it serves a concrete plot. I don't think killing Superman is a good idea either. He's kind of hard to kill anyways.

I think a bigger issue is scale. Incorporating the entire DC Universe sounds like more work that our little populace can handle, and unnecessary. With what will probably just be a handful of writers, unless everyone jumps into this roleplay, it would probably be best to limit ourselves geographically; which I think was the idea in the first place. To just keep it in Gotham, and maintain Gotham-esque characters. I wouldn't find it too odd for Green Arrow to be in Gotham. Supergirl doesn't really fit such a singular setting as well, but that doesn't mean she couldn't have come up with a reason to come visit. If there is a Justice League then there isn't much reason for it's members to come to Gotham if Batman, Supergirl, Green Arrow, and company are already on the job of taming the city. I think it's easy enough to just say that Superman and Others are tackling other problems in other areas.

There are more than enough Gotham villains to keep any collection of heroes busy. Plus any that migrate.

Now a tangent: going back to my point about scope, I bring this up a lot when we are talking about the General Roleplays, and I know how much we want to keep everything together here on TheHolo.Net, but superhero roleplays, like DC or Marvel/mutants, are such a huge universe that it's really hard to condense it all down into just a general roleplay. It's a beast all it's own, so we are going to have to accept that it's going to be difficult to nail down. It practically needs a board all it's own in order to make sense of it all. I know you want to get all the details nailed down Jace, and I respect and prefer that myself, but at the end of the day I don't think it's even possible to achieve that by consensus. It's usually something ironed out by a board owner before the writers ever show up. "This is how it is. Adapt your character(s) of choice to fit within it." type of thing.

That's my two cents anyways.

EDIT: Editing for Minnie's response. If we keep things a bit more open ended it definitely is easier to meld and mold characters to fit instead of sticking strictly to canon. That's also a preference of mine because I like putting my own spin on established characters instead of just writing them as they appear in the comics with no deviation. This is something that's also easier by having the setting/plot established without nailing down every character's role within it.

[Minnie Starshine]

Yeah, I definitely want to write my own version, take the ideas and write my version of that character. Especially with Supergirl as she's different in nearly every writer's run anyway, from what I've seen.

We could just appoint somebody in charge like a board owner and follow them?

I'm not 100% no Superman is a fair rule IF anybody wants him. I get the logic, but he IS one of the two main tentpoles of DC (unlike, say Professor X, who's a major character, but not on the same scale). Saying no Superman is like saying no Spider-man on Marvel in terms of how major the character is. (I did lots of Marvel writing too :p).

[Captain Untouchable]

Just to clarify guys... I wasn't suggesting there be no Superman, I was pitching how I would write him, with the intention of me writing him.

In terms of characters like Batman and Superman (or Professor X and Magneto), I see them in the context of a forum roleplay as being the sort of.... Admirals in Star Trek, or the General in Stargate, or that sort of thing. They aren't the main characters of the story that we would want to play: they're the person that sets up the story for the main characters, who sends them on the missions or provide the context. Those are pretty much my roleplay bread and butter. John Glayde when I set up Dorn Force, Vansen Tyree when Rogue Squadron was on his ship, Delgado Xaanan on Corellia, people on Cloud City, Avengers stuff for Mutants Unite... I write those characters, because I'm that guy that likes to be able to sorta... set things up for other people to do stuff. A lot of my roleplaying background is in stuff that had a GM, so yeah, being the guy who sets up other people is something I naturally gravitate towards.

I will happily write Superman to help paint the broad strokes of the storyline... and to help out with Kara's story, too. You just need to look at the number of people's dads and uncles that I write on these boards to know how up for that sort of thing I am. :lol Just felt that, being the big/important guy that he is, I should check to see if people were okay with it... an there's some unease, which I'm perfectly cool with.


Edit:

Just to flip the idea on it's head for a second, what if it was Batman who ends up worrying that people "aren't good enough"?

Batman has always been a more critical/analytical judge of people's capabilities anyway, so it makes much more sense for him to be the one that decides Kara is "not ready", and I think that Superman - being empathetic to his friend's emotional struggle - would sorta grudgingly go along with it, up to a point. He'd let Batman send him just to earthquakes and boss fights, because Superman trusts that Batman knows the superhero community well enough to ensure that things are covered. Superman might also have been the one who nudged Kara towards Gotham and Green Arrow... where better to "prove" yourself to Batman than in his home town? That fits with Batman's pessimism towards Kara from some of the animated movies over the last few years.

And, if Batman is "otherwise occupied", it makes it nice and easy for people like Green Arrow and Supergirl to come in and keep the streets of Gotham safe while Bats is focused on a "bigger mission". Maybe he's chasing down a lead, off hunting the League of Assassins, and all of that sort of stuff because "I've been fixated on Gotham for too long... the rest of the world needs me too", which sorta fits with a lot of Batman portrayals re: the Justice League too. If a situation in Gotham is deemed risky enough that he knows his help is needed he can show up, but the rest of the time he can be a face on a screen, a hologram in the Batcave, an occasional consultant on forensics/etc.

Also, Batman is probably easier (narratively speaking) to rattle. It could be a completely made up (rather than canon) girlfriend that something happens to. It could be Alfred getting put in the hospital, and Batman deciding that he needs to "be more careful" if he's going to keep people safe. It could just be something that forces him to relive what happened to Barbara and Jason Todd in some horrific way - an Arkham Knight style Scarecrow fiasco that forces Bruce to reevaluate his life? Doesn't even need to be a specific thing, we can just refer to "the incident" that made Batman even more stoic and withdrawn.

That'd allow someone (again, am happy to write these kind of "facilitating the story" characters) to write Batman as part of the story, but in a way that allows the rest of us to handle the majority of Gotham stories without him. Batman is busy with other things, so he's left Gotham in the hands of ... I dunno... the "Outsiders", to steal a canon team name.

[Minnie Starshine]

If you want to write Superman (or Batman), I'd say go for it, and go with whatever idea takes your fancy. If you're writing them, I think write it as you want to see them written. That's the fun part. That's what I'm planning to do with Kara, anyway.

My idea for Kara is that she sort of is being sneaky being in Gotham. I like the idea Clark has been forcing her to live an ordinary life with Ma and Pa Kent for a while, and Kara is climbing the walls bored. She's got a whole new planet to explore, and superpowers. So being like sixteen, seventeen, she's persuaded she needs to start living a civilian life. So she applies for college in Gotham, because they 'have a program she wants to do'. But it's actually because she knows Clark stays out of Gotham mostly because he leaves it to Batman.

In other words, she figures it's where she can start superheroing without getting caught :p.

Of course, it doesn't go according to plan, but that's the fun part.

I love the idea of Batman being critical of Kara though. It'd be fun to see him kick her ass in training with no powers just to demonstrate why she needs to learn a thing or two...

[Green Arrow]

Okay so, after chatting it out a bit on AIM, I'm going to be writing Batman as the one who is all "this mission is too dangerous for you" guy. He'll still be in Gotham, but he's sorta in that mindset where he's "focusing on the bigger picture", and trusting Green Arrow, Supergirl, et al to keep the streets of Gotham safe.

In the meanwhile, we're going to have a storyline in the background that involves Queen Consolidated being run by not-Oliver, and they are going to be involved in some shady black ops government research contracts and such on the side. A lot of their business is going to be taking place in Gotham City (another reason why Green Arrow is here), and it'll spill out into the vigilante community and make everything all... sticky? Lets go with sticky. Also, Deathstroke is going to be involved in that, in a sort of mysterious mercenary capacity.

Nothing is meticulously/extensively planned out, so we can super-easily accommodate anyone who wants to come in as anything... just a pencil line for us to follow along at this point, rather than anything being set in stone. :)

Edit:

I snuck a little post in because Ollie is awesome and I could not help myself. I will now shush until Kara and Slade have punched each other enough times for me to need to swoop in heroically (and handsomely) to the rescue. :uhoh

[Wally West]

OMG Kara, you're coming to school in Gotham? :eee

We should totally hang out and stuff. :dance

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I think asking Peter if he still wants to play batman first would be the polite way of doing this. If he has no interest then go for it. But taking Green Arrow, Supes and Batman for one player right off the bat (haha) is a bit much and could be off putting for people who maybe are catching up on this conversation and thinking about getting involved.

edit: if you take the Flash as well its getting a bit crazy!

[Wally West]

I'm not writing Supes: I abandoned that idea when people weren't keen on the way I pitched him. Also, since Peter still has the Batman accounts registered, I may not be doing that either: I've already sent him a message about it. But thank you for assuming the worst, and that I was going to do it without his consent. That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. ;)

Also, Wally West is the Kid Flash, the sidekick, not the full-blown Flash. I explicitly didn't go with Barry Allen so that someone could still come in and play the full blown hero if they chose. Picked Wally because I'm a big fan of him from Young Justice, and thought he might be a cool school friend for Kara - obviously, regular Barry Allen (being a big boy, and playing with the big boy Justice League) isn't a fit for that.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Sorry Jace, you didn't say you'd abandoned the idea of playing Superman (unless I missed it), and you typed "I'm going to be writing Batman..." :) Not assuming the worst, just giving a friendly suggestion. :)

Using the image of TV's Flash made me assume you were going to be playing...the Flash. Silly me! ;)

[Green Arrow]

My bad - I assumed that the account name would make it pretty obvious who he was/wasn't. ;)


Anyhow!

I have spoken to Peter, and he's on board with writing Batman again, so yay. His take is that Batman would still be very focused on Gotham, but there has been "so much crime lately" that he's forced to accept that he's going to need help, which leaves room for the Birds of Prey, the Outsiders, and that sort of thing. He's a bit of an Arkham style Batman, so he's willing to let people handle their own stuff without proactively meddling... but if he thinks someone isn't up to the task, he will step in "for their safety". So if Kara is gonna keep picking fights above our weight class, there may be some batarang interventions saving her butt in the future, I think. :mischief

As far as Green Arrow goes, his main reason for being in the city is because of Queen Consolidated and it's off-the-books R&D shenanigans. Batman will have caught wind of this stuff going on, and will have reached out to Oliver to see if he wants to handle it personally. Bats will be helping out with the investigation, but Oliver will be taking point for "it's personal" reasons. Over time though, Queen Consolidated's stuff will start oozing out and getting it's chocolate in the rest of Gotham's peanut butter, and that's where we all sorta converge.

I was thinking it might be cool to use "The Outsiders" as the name for Green Arrow / Supergirl / the other vigilantes in Gotham. If you're not familiar with the term, the Outsiders are a group of heroes in Gotham that Batman approves of / tolerates - similar to the Birds of Prey. Seems kinda fitting, since we're all from "outside" of Gotham, etc. :uhoh

[Barbara Gordon]

Barbara Gordon checking in. She'll be the niece of Commissioner Gordon, named after his wife, and raised by them. She was going to college in Metropolis but is taking some time off and returned to Gotham. She lives with her aunt and uncle and works at the library, and runs an investigative blog under the pen name Oracle.

Edit: took me a minute to remember why this account has only one post, lol. I had the old one renames to Barbara Nolan and switched her into a Mutants character, then reregistered the name for when people were last talking about reviving the scenario ^_^;

[Jervis Tetch]

Jervis Tetch, scientist, working on MIND CONTROL. Has an upsetting relationship with his mother and an unhealthy obsession with the works of Lewis Carroll.

[Supergirl]

Welcome aboard everybody! :)

[Mitch]

Wow, I go away for one weekend and I miss everything! I'd very much like to be a part of the DC reboot, here, and, before anyone can say it, I shot dibs on Hal Jordan as Green Lantern.

Idea would be when he first gets the ring. There is a period of time between when he first gets it, and when the Guardians call him to Oa and he gets his training. I think that'd be a good point in time for me to start with him. If possible, I'd love to continue playing Alan Scott, the golden age Green Lantern, who has been retired since the 50's, and most everyone has forgotten.

And... I've got some ideas for Eel O'Brien, too, if y'all don't mind. I'll be very busy at work, today, but when I get home I should be able to do a more detailed write-up of what I'm planning, as well as what possible baddies I could play, too. I don't want to take too big a slice of the pie, but, every hero does need a few baddies to balance them out. =)

[Supergirl]

I think those ideas sound great :). I don't know who Eel is but the rest sound awesome. Hal just starting out will be great fun too, and stops him being too powerful right away (sort of what I'm doing with Kara too).

[Mitch]

Eel O'Brien is the small-time burglar/thief who falls into a vat of some chemical or another during a heist, and becomes Plastic Man. =)

[Supergirl]

Ah. A fate that could never befall a girl. If she was like "I'm Plastic Woman!" people would be like "You and half of Hollywood."

[Green Arrow]

Just being devil's advocate for a minute: that idea for Hal Jordan is awesome, but it does limit the options for anyone else being a Green Lantern (especially if you have Alan Scott as well)... kinda hard to be someone's successor if they are still brand new. Similarly, having a Barbara Gordon who has never been a vigilante makes it a bit tricky to introduce her Batgirl successors and the Birds of Prey.

Not saying those characters shouldn't happen exactly the way you want them to. But, it seems a bit silly to rule out ideas because "someone might want to play that character", when we're already doing the exact same thing. Even with character death as a plot device... that would be just as easy to work around as if someone wanted to play John Stewart - death isn't exactly a permanent thing in comics. Just food for thought! :)



Re: Hal Jordan - I really like the idea that he isn't part of the Corps yet... but what's his motivation for being in Gotham? Is he just here because Alan Scott is here, and he's trying to get answers about his seemingly magical green ring? Or, since both of the green-themed California coast superheroes are going to be in Gotham, do you want to play the friendship card and say that Hal is here helping Oliver with his investigation into Queen Consolidated?

Re: Barbara Gordon - Would you like to have her involved in the Queen Consolidated investigation at all? Maybe Barbara has posted some stuff on her blog that leads Oliver Queen to go visit her in his civilian guise to find out what she knows (kinda like Oliver and Felicity at the start of Season 1), or perhaps he visits her as the Green Arrow instead (and it's a bit more of a Flash / Iris West vibe)? Could be a good place to start, at least. :)

Re: Alan Scott - Back in the day, I think we had it that a) Alan was on the Wayne Enterprises board of directors, and b) I was going to be playing one or two of his Golden Age peers. Do you still want to have that connection between GBC and Wayne Enterprises? Would you want to connect it with Queen Consolidated so that Alan can interact with Oliver's investigation in some way? And would you still like some fellow oldies for Alan to interact with?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Barbara won't be Batgirl, so anyone else who wants to be Batgirl ...can. I hope that clears that up. :) In my opinion it makes things more open rather than restricting anyone.

We aren't sticking to a strict comic book continuity (even if there was one everyone could point to) so if any of the other Batgirls, or all of them, or the Birds of Prey show up then we'll figure out how to include them.

[Supergirl]

I don't think it matters. We can easily justify any new Green Lanterns if anybody wants to join, and just make it so they came before Hal. Just like having Wally West as Kid Flash, and not The Flash, doesn't limit stories for people who want to tell it in the era when Wally is The Flash (yes, I know about that :p). Or Supergirl being young and new, instead of Power Girl style, for example. I say we just work with whatever people want to do. And whoever gets first dibs can guide the story for that character.

To try and keep track, by the way, am I correct in assuming we currently have:

Green Arrow
Supergirl
Kid Flash
Batman
Barbara Gordon (not yet Batgirl?)
Mad Hatter
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Green Lantern (Alan Scott)
Plastic Man
Deathstroke

as taken characters? Any I miss?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Re: Barbara Gordon - Would you like to have her involved in the Queen Consolidated investigation at all? Maybe Barbara has posted some stuff on her blog that leads Oliver Queen to go visit her in his civilian guise to find out what she knows (kinda like Oliver and Felicity at the start of Season 1), or perhaps he visits her as the Green Arrow instead (and it's a bit more of a Flash / Iris West vibe)? Could be a good place to start, at least. :)

Yes, this sounds good, and with her meeting him in costume. I like the idea of her not knowing exactly who he really is right off the bat. Also she knows how to kick ass, but again, not really looking to make her Batgirl or Green Arrow Girl or whatever. I like the idea of an Oracle who can take care of herself (so no wheelchair thing unless I decide later to do that). Basically I'm just taking the talking points of Barbara Gordon and making her my own.

edit: I keep hitting 'post' and then having more thoughts.

Barbara writes under an assumed name (Oracle), and is able to hide her tracks well enough that someone wouldn't be able to tell where she's posting from (other than it must be Gotham due to what she writes about). So Oliver would have to draw her out, somehow, probably through a comment section clue or something like that?

[Supergirl]

That sounds good to me :). She needs to meet Kara some time :p. I'm not sure how, it'd just be fun. I love Kara/Babs interacting.

I just want to put together a list of characters taken and stuff so that we've got a comprehensive list somewhere.

[Green Arrow]

I like the idea of luring Barbara out with a comment in a post. Would she be too wary of that (in case it's the Riddler, or Cluemaster, or someone trying to lure her into a trap) to come alone, or is she confident enough in the anonymity of her Oracle pseudonym that she's... not worried about criminals being out to kidnap her because of who her uncle is?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

She'd be confident that no one has put together that Oracle is related to the Comissioner, yeah. Also, naive enough to venture out alone. I'm assuming the comment would seem intruiging and not dangerous, maybe like a regular person wanting to come forward with more information or something like that?

[Halajiin Rabeak]

John Stewart and Guy Gardner were selected as alternate GL's for 2814 while Hal was still around, so it's entirely feasible for someone else to play a GL if they wanted. Though, as fair warning, if anyone plays Kyle, I will make their life a living hell for inflicting that Mary Sue POS on us. =P

Yeah, Alan Scott could have been on the Wayne board, and he likely still heads GBS. I'm totally good with having another old-timer knocking around that he could interact with. The reason I picked Alan is that his power isn't physical, it's mental, and he can control it the same no matter his age. He can serve a bit as a mentor or as the "old man" sounding board to some of the newbies. He'll be quite surprised that another ring has shown up, especially when it behaves differently to his own.

For Hal, well, he just got fired from Ferris Aircraft for somehow flying and crashing a multi-milion-dollar flightless training module, so, he's looking for work, and there might be an air company in the Gotham area who needs a skilled test pilot. In such an economy, he'd want to go where the money is and the job is. Also, with a bit of newfound power, he might want to study some of the new "heroes" in the area where they seem to be concentrated. Who knows, maybe Queen Consolidated has some new jet aircraft they're working on? Could be a nice link to Ollie, there.

And, to be blunt, GL is my favorite comic book character of all time, and I wasn't allowed to play Hal last time around, so dang it, I WILL be playing him this time. So, nyah. =P

[Barbara Gordon]

So I'm going to go with: Oracle's blog writing up a quick piece about Queen Consolidated crates being seen somewhere unexpected along with an uptick in crimes being committed with higher tech than one usually expects in Gotham? Something like that? Basically the same thing we did last time but with Queen Consolidated rather than Wayne Enterprises? I'm not exactly sure what you have in mind.

Now I need to dig up the blog I set up :lol

edit: http://gothamsdarkcorners.blogspot.com/?m=1

[Supergirl]

Maybe Hal and Kara could cross paths early on? I'm not sure how well known the Green Lantern corps are to the Kryptonians, but it'd make sense Kara is aware of them, and to Hal, she's one of the big alien 'threats' in Gotham, so maybe we could even do the classic misunderstanding-fight thing?

[Halajiin Rabeak]

The GL corps are universal (literally) and the Kryptonians would certainly have known of them. Since Kyrpton was under a red sun, a GL would have been just as crazy-powerful there as they are here. But, they're essentially space-cops, and are known to be good guys, for the most part.

[Supergirl]

I thought as much, it just seems odd to me as there was never a Kryptonian Green Lantern, was there? At least, not one I know of.

Well, they could still meet, even if Hal meets to check Kara is safe, and maybe Kara is so relieved to see a Green Lantern, somebody she assumes will know about life in space and so she can relate to, she baffles him with all talk of life on Krypton he knows nothing about? :p

[Wally West]

There wasn't a modern Kryptonian Lantern (there might have been a ye olde one?), but there are Lanterns from the Daxamite race which is a sort of Kryptonian offshoot. Thing to bear in mind is that if there are only one (or two) Lanterns per Sector, and each Sector is home to lots of worlds and lots of races... you're gonna get some races that go unrepresented sometimes. I think Krypton is/was in Tomar-Re's sector (the fish-bird guy).

As far as using the alternate excuse for Guy or John... yes, that does hypothetically allow for a second Lantern, but we would also need to get them a Green Lantern ring, and the Green Lantern Corps is going to have to get mixed in and involved, which sorta stretches credibility a lot if Hal Jordan is still on Earth and hasn't reported back to Oa to take on his duties. It's doable, yes, but we would need to contrive a solution to make it happen... and that's not really any less complicated than contriving an excuse to bring someone back from the dead. Arguably, resurrection would be easier and require less plot bullshittery to bring about.

In terms of Queen Consolidated plots -

Oliver Queen's parents died (as they do in the comics) while he was a kid. Oliver inherited the company, but his uncle looked after things while he was still growing up. When Oliver was stranded on the island and declared dead, his uncle was able to take control of the company and take it public... so when Oliver returned, it wasn't "his" any more, even though it's still got his name on the side of all the buildings. Oliver's uncle is involved with a shady government black ops group, and has been having QC secretly working on iffy military contracts. Some of that may be tech based, some of that may be bioweapons or super-steroids a la Bane or Mirakuru. It's possible that tech is getting out on the streets like you suggest, or it might be rumours that Queen or one of it's subordinates has been releasing experimental drugs out onto Gotham's streets to see what it will do to the population, etc. Whole host of shady science villain style stuff.

[Mitch]

Well, how about this: if someone else wants to play a Green Lantern, we'll worry about it at that point? Or, we'll simply figure it out. We don't have to be 100% canon, after all, and half the fun of this is in making characters and timelines that don't really go together, work together. I just want to play the character I liked best, growing up, as I probably know more about Hal Jordan - and the GL Corps - than anyone else here. So, yeah, I know how to find loopholes, too, and it won't be a problem.

I know that likely came off as a rather jerk thing to say, but this really is a part I've wanted to play for some time, and wasn't allowed to play, the last time around. I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna do it in the most fun, fair, and team-friendly way possible, while still being true to the character, and the concept. I just want to have fun.

[Supergirl]

I agree with Mitch totally. I just came from a board where I wasn't allowed to play Kara because she was 'too powerful' (despite the way I write her being that she actually sucks, she's just a powerhouse who sucks at using her powers). And I hated it. Everybody should get to write who they want. :)

Plus we're the ones 'shaping' the universe by how we write now, as the core group starting it off. When other people join, if they want a character, they can work with us. I mean, what if a Superman joins but he wants to be the last Kryptonian? Tough, I'm already writing Supergirl. Stuff like that.

We go first. Other people can then adapt :p

[Wally West]

I think you're completely and utterly missing what I'm getting at, Mitch - you've got my point completely ass-backwards.

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with you being Hal Jordan. As I've said, I happen to really like the idea, and I think everyone should be able to do whatever the heck they want, and we can - as we've both said - worry about how to fix any complications if and when they are a problem. I would just like to see that mentality applied equally everywhere: if it's okay to complicate matters with other Green Lanterns (which it is), then it should be okay to, for example, say that Ted Kord is dead (as he usually is in the comics), and then "worry about it later" if anyone does want to come along and play him. Resurrecting Ted Kord and coming up with an excuse to write John Stewart are of about equal difficulty, given how easy it is to bring someone back from the dead in comic books.

Lets pick a mindset and stick to it, rather than applying one mentality now that's completely different from the mentality we had a few days ago. ;)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Jace, you originally said that you were "not saying those characters shouldn't happen exactly the way you want them to." Let's not borrow trouble and argue with each other about something you brought up originally just to be a devil's advocate. :)

Edit: I honestly don't understand what you're talking about regarding Ted Kord. Is it that you want to say that he's dead? I think avoiding "this hero is dead" statements is something we'd agreed not to do...?

When one one picks a character they want to be sometimes that means that other comic characters are dead, I guess? Like we have Batman so that means his parents are dead. Or...? I honestly don't understand.

If someone wants to play Flash that automatically means someone else can't. We have a Hal and a Green Arrow - these characters are taken, so other people are excluded from using them.

Saying that the Joker or Ted Kord or whoever is dead is different: that's excluding them from the story and not allowing others to play them if they want to later. I'd be much more in favor of simply not mentioning them or mentioning them in an NPC fashion where they sort of exist or did in the past or something without mentioning their fates.

edit 2: so I agree with Mitch and Supergirl ^_^;

[Supergirl]

Sooooo.... we're good right?

[Mitch]

If Supergirl, here, Holly and I came to the same conclusion on your point, then perhaps it was your point that wasn't clear, and others have interpreted it in another way. Just saying. I also never said anything about anyone who was, might be, or should be dead, or anything about resurrecting a character. That subject is completely beyond the pale, in relationship to anything I said.

I said I wanted to be Hal. It appeared you had an issue with that, which is clear, now, that you didn't. But, what you're saying about picking one mindset and sticking with it, doesn't clarify one mindset at all.

The "roll with it" attitude I'm presuming we're all going to operate under is the same one I presume we operate under for SW RP: Do what you like, be respectful of others, and if something is an issue, find a way to work it out instead of letting it be a stumbling block. Am I under the wrong impression, there? If another GL wants to roll into the mix, awesome; there'll probably be a great way to bring them in, and I think we should leave the method of their entry up to the new player as much as possible. And, if someone wants to play a GL, and doesn't know a lot about them, let them ask us, and we'll be glad to help. Heck, I ask SW stuff all the time, doesn't mean I'm afraid to do something, or feel shut out.

Last thing I wanted was an argument.

[Supergirl]

I vote roll with it, let people do what they want, and work with newbies/new characters to fit in if there's any possibility of a problem. I always lose interest if things get over planned anyway :). It's more fun for me watching things evolve and happen you didn't plan.

[Wally West]

Edit: for brevity.

Mitch - At no point did I say you couldn't do anything. I was pointing out that our logic is squiffy, and I was arguing that we should treat every case the way that we were treating your case: by letting you do whatever the heck you wanted, and worrying about any complications later. You were just a convenient example - and I stated that pretty openly.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Sooooo.... we're good right?
We're good :)

[Wally West]

I am... still a bit confused about Ted Kord.

Ted Kord is basically Gwen Stacy. He did stuff while he was alive, but his death is arguably his most significant contribution to the storyline. That's why I suggested him in the first place: being dead is his default state, 90% of the time. In particular, his death deeply affects his best friend and partner in crime-fighting Booster Gold, who is a character I've already expressed an interest in writing - and I would specifically want to do a post-Ted version of Booster, who has Ted's death as an inspiration to "be better", who has to fight the urge to travel back and change the timeline to keep Ted from dying, etc.

So basically, if I say that Ted is dead for Booster Gold reasons, that is 100% fine?


Not trying to be shady and subvert the system, I genuinely do want to write as Booster. It just feels a bit... wonky that all it takes for a disallowed idea to be an allowed one is me writing a guy I already want to write.

[Mitch]

To be very, very fair, Ted Kord and Booster Gold were good friends while Ted was alive. Why not celebrate that with a living Ted Kord, for Booster's sake? Happy Booster is the most fun Booster. It could be worth a try to start with, and if Ted needs to die, then let it be for a reason that we find meaningful for our storyline, here. While a handful of us know why Dead Ted is important, most don't. Personally, I stopped reading comics before he was killed off, so I remember living and awesome Ted Kord. I'm very modern/bronze age, pre-52 nonsense, personally. That's my era of DC, before all the dark and gritty.

Just saying, if you want to make Ted's death important, make him live, first, so everyone can get to know WHY his death is important.

[Vansen Tyree]

...because that's not the version of Booster that I want to write?

[Supergirl]

This feels way more complicated than it needs to be. If nobody picks up Ted by the time you write Booster, say he's dead and if anybody wants to play him later we'll address the issue then? That's my suggestion anyway.

[Supergirl]

Also, is your Green Lantern thread closed to everybody? I'd love to join :).

(Awesome pick of playby for Hal btw).

[Hal Jordan]

At the moment it's going to be a Green Lantern meets Green Arrow thing, but it might open up shortly after that. =)

[Supergirl]

Awesome :). Let me know. I have fun ideas for Kara and Hal :)

[Hal Jordan]

If you want to start up something for Kara and Hal, feel free. Green Light District is sort of an intro thread to Hal vs. Ollie, and grounds for what will likely be a very big misunderstanding between them. Also, it's to get Hal to really test his new powers, while trying to keep up with an experienced hero, then Hal is going to want to bolt so that his identity isn't found out. Something a few days later could easily give Kara and Hal more time to actually interact.

[Supergirl]

Okay, great! :)

http://sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?56290-Green-Is-Not-My-Colour!&p=1040677#post1040677 There you go :)

[Dee]

I've been persuaded to write Isabel Rochev *eyes Jace* ;) so she shall very shortly be available for hijinks ^_^

[Oliver Queen]

Does anyone mind if I pick up Rex Tyler as my third character? He's a pretty obscure chap - he was Hourman decades ago, but now he's one of the old/retired superheroes, and I'd like to use him as a scientist for some of the Queen Consolidated side of things. I guess he's sort of the... Morgan Freeman of Queen Consolidated?

Also, if anyone else wants to throw scientist characters (especially science villains) into the Queen Consolidated stuff, I would be very very happy to have you. :D

[Barbara Gordon]

Well, I was expecting Jervis to be a scientist working for Wayne Enterprises in Applied Science, but could move that over to QC if that works better?

[Green Arrow]

Totally up to you!

Mind control would definitely fit with the Queen Consolidated MO: there's all kinds of shady spy/super soldier applications to that, and having Jervis experiment on people in the Narrows / people at Arkham / etc might be a very neat way of connecting the dots. On the flipside, Hal Jordan is going to be working as a test pilot at Wayne Enterprises, and having Jervis' tech connected to the "neural interface" for some next gen fighter jet or super-advanced unmanned drone that you control by thinking might lead to some interesting stories as well - might mean that the skills Hal needs to practice as Green Lantern and the skills he needs to do his test pilot job line up nicely, etc.

Kinda works either way, but I certainly wouldn't mind having the Hatter around. :)

[Jervis Tetch]

Well, the previous incarnation of this character was working on his tech as a way of treating mental illnesses. But it could certainly be spun off in a bunch of different directions by whichever company he was working for!

[Green Arrow]

Oooh, I'd forgotten about that. Potential ties to Arkham, then? Dee and I had some Arkham stuff lined up the last time around, but I don't know how much of those old bits and pieces she's still up for.

Wherever you end up going with, if you need characters to interact with, let me know. It's not like I have an aversion to extra people. ;)

Edit:

So, something wonky seems to be going on with the Gotham tag - it's showing up for Green Arrow and Wally West, but not for Oliver Queen and Kid Flash. It is possibly post count related? The two where the tag isn't showing are still in single figure post counts atm.

[Barbara Gordon]

Default is set to 10 posts and I was supposed to set it to 1, so yeah, it's probably post count related >_<

I'll fix it eventually ^_^;

edit: well, this account only has 9 posts, so who knows!

[Harleen Quinzel]

:mischief

[Green Arrow]

Default is set to 10 posts and I was supposed to set it to 1, so yeah, it's probably post count related http://theholo.net/forum/images/smilies/cringe.gif

I'll fix it eventually http://theholo.net/forum/images/smilies/heh.gif

edit: well, this account only has 9 posts, so who knows!


Huh. It wasn't showing up for Barbara when I replied to you earlier! :uhoh

I would suggest witchcraft, but we don't have any magic using characters yet. :p

[Jason Todd]

:mischief

Aww... shit. The whole neighbourhood's gone to hell. :|

[Barbara Gordon]

I think it's just taking a minute for the database to fill in the rank for everyone.

[Supergirl]

It's not showing up for me and I've got over 30 posts >.>.

Also yay Harley and Jason!

[Jason Todd]

Have you joined the Permission Group for it yet?

Go to Settings, and on the left-hand side under My Account you'll see "Permission Groups". There's one in there called "General RP - Gotham"... if you join that, the doodad should (in theory) show up.

If it doesn't... I guarantee it's somehow Batman's fault. (Hate that guy. :grumble)

[Supergirl]

Oh right, I think I'd done it wrong.

Hopefully it works now :)

[Connor Kent]

... what are you looking at? :|

[Supergirl]

Connor? This can only end brilliantly!

[Green Arrow]

How would you guys feel about having a list of "obscure enough that probably no one is going to write them" characters for us to use as NPCs?

It was awkward the other day working out whether I should use a really really obscure cop character in my thread with Green Arrow, or just make somebody up. I imagine that's a problem we're all going to bump into, if Barbara is hanging out at the precinct, if Bruce Wayne is going to be dating famous women, if Oliver Queen is going to get accosted by tabloid journalists, if Hal Jordan and Jervis Tetch and so forth are going to be working at Wayne/Queen in need of background characters to flesh out their posts, etc.

Obviously we don't want to be taking opportunities away from people, but as long as we stick to the obscure / background / supporting characters I think we should be okay in that regard... and having a small list to pick from is probably easier than sitting there on a case by case basis wondering if Character X is obscure enough that you can get away with using them without stepping on any toes.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I dunno - I lean toward just making up an NPC rather than using a character, but then on the other hand I'm going to be leaning pretty heavily on writing Jim Gordon as an NPC just due to playing Barbara, so.......... :shrug <--still need to upload this :lol

Btw I hope you didn't take me writing Oliver's exit into our thread as me writing you out, I figured from what you'd written that he was on his way out so I ran with it. I plan on Barbara getting into a spot of trouble later in the Narrows (the title of the thread after all ;)) so if Oliver or ?? Someone else? is there too.....?

[Supergirl]

I don't think there's any harm in certainly mentioning other characters that aren't being played and the way they behave, like Jim for you, or Clark (and Jonathan and Martha Kent) for me. And I don't really think there's much harm in NPCing the civilian characters that aren't claimed.

For example, I wouldn't NPC Superman, but I might at some point NPC Jonathan and Martha, assuming that nobody out there desperately wants to claim them for the adventures of an elderly couple living on a farm.

[Oliver Queen]

I think Jim Gordon, the Kents, Alfred, your character's spouse/partner, and so on are special cases. You can't avoid interacting with them, so unless someone picks them up as a character, NPCing is your only option.

When it comes to something like adding an NPC detective to the crime scene you're roleplaying though, that's a little fuzzier. It probably doesn't make sense to NPC someone like Harvey Bullock or Renee Montoya, because if someone decided to play a GCPD detective, those are the well known characters that they are most likely to go for. It would make much more sense to go with someone like Carlos Alvarez, who is one of the more supporting/background characters: still a familiar name (and better than just making one up IMO - the whole point of this is to use canon characters, so lets use 'em), but not someone that anyone is likely to come in and RP.

What I was getting at was a list (or wiki page?) that says which characters we already have as NPCs, and maybe gives a little bit of info on the version/interpretation of the character we've gone with so far. If Holly is having conversations at breakfast with the Ben McKenzie version of Jim Gordon, it's going to be weird if Peter writes a more Gary Oldman inspired version when Batman has his beside the Bat Signal conversations.

Also, having a list encourages people to recycle the NPCs we already have, instead of making up new ones willy-nilly. That'll help stop us getting carried away and having too many NPCs in the long run.

I'm planning to sort out the DC part of the wiki this week, so this is easily something I could set up a framework for.

[Supergirl]

I think only for the really well known characters, a bit of framework could be useful. To be honest, like Superman. Obviously, Kara references Superman a fair bit, and I'm sure Connor will as well. And like you say, if Connor is thinking Man of Steel 'Oh look, a building I've haven't knocked down yet' Superman and I'm thinking Christopher Reeves 'General, care to step outside?' Superman, things will clash a little.

(Although we can agree, right, that no other playby but Christopher Reeve should be used for Superman, riiiight? :p)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

B-but Brandon Routh!

[Kid Flash]

For Superman, I think it depends on whether or not someone actually steps up to write him. NPCing elements of him (phone conversations, remembering arguments you had, etc) is one thing, but if either Kara or Connor are going to end up having a heart to heart with Clark, it would be a shame to not have someone writing the character: those kinds of situations are just better when you've got someone to bounce off.

As far as the characters who aren't really well known... I think what's more important is how much they get used in our story. If Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Kid Flash, and Supergirl are all potentially going to share/recycle the same GCPD detective/s, that framework info is useful regardless.

It shouldn't be a long list, so we might as well just put everyone on there.


B-but Brandon Routh!

I am so conflicted. I really liked Brandon as Superman, but he's Ray Palmer in my brain.

Except that Ray Palmer on Arrow is more like Ted Kord in the comics.

I don't know who Brandon Routh is.

:cyduck

[Supergirl]

I even think referencing him can be tricky though. For example, I write very specifically Jonathan Kent is still alive. But in some versions, he's dead. It'd be nice to have a concrete version, even to reference.

And I love Brandon Routh in, like, everything he's in. He's always awesome. But his Superman was basically Brandon Routh playing Christopher Reeves playing Superman. Which I loved, because I love Christopher Reeves and the original movies. But it still shows even they thought he was the best :p

[Kid Flash]

Brandon and Superman Returns deserve more credit than they get for how much they drew on the Reeves movies. The result wasn't perfect, but their heart was in the right place for a lot of it.

Kinda tempted to register a Superman account now though, just so I can use Dean Cain to annoy you. :p


In terms of the Superman stuff then... rather than a "he is an NPC and here is how you use him" thing, it sounds like what we need is continuity notes. That's sort of general setting information, like knowing that Barbara Gordon was never Batgirl, but that we do have a former Robin in the form of Jason Todd, or knowing that Green Lantern is brand new / was never part of the Justice League, but Barry Allen has been around long enough to have had a sidekick, etc. I can definitely make sure that kind of info is available - probably makes more sense to break that stuff down by "group" (Bat Family, Team Arrow, Flash Family, etc) rather than by individual characters.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Yeah, keeping track of our references/how we're playing characters is a good idea and we're talking about the wiki, right?

:)

That information should be available in the character plotters, too, which makes those a good resource.

[Supergirl]

This all sounds like a good idea to me :).

Except using Dean Cain. *scowls*

[Droo]

I like the idea of creating a resource that allows people to review the NPC's in use in the setting. It was the sort of thing that was started for Ossus, here (http://theholo.net/forum/showthread.php?55382-The-Jedi-Camp-and-it-s-Residents). And, taking a cue from that thread, perhaps we could provide a little blurb on locations in the setting, too, for the same reason. In my first post with Connor, I described Gotham Library, and I just recently discovered Barbara Gordon is a librarian. Now, I hope my description doesn't clash with what she had in mind - indeed, Barbara may be in a different library entirely - but, going forward, people would be able to refer to what I'd described should their characters ever wind up in Gotham Library. This way we get to loosely map out frequently used locations, and the NPC's that inhabit them. I reckon something like this would be an invaluable tool to someone just getting acquainted with the setting.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Barbara is definitely at the Gotham Library, and I love your description :)

[Captain Untouchable]

I've started pulling some of this together. Still tinkering with the format at the moment (so please don't go crazy adding stuff just yet!) - just wanted to give you guys the gist of what I'm aiming for.

The Supporting Characters (http://theholo.net/wiki/index.php/DC_Supporting_Characters) has the little character blurbs as discussed. For some people (eg. Jerry Hennelly) it's just as simple as a name that people can reference. For others, there's a bit more detail, that can be expanded on the more we roleplay with these people. There's also some information on some generic NPC gangs that people can use, so that it isn't always Nameless Thug #7. I have put little images - I know they don't count as proper image claims / playbys, they're just there for flavour/inspiration/same page purposes... if someone wants to use that particular actor for someone else, we can jump off that bridge when we come to it.

Planning to do pretty much the same thing as that for locations and organisations and stuff too. (Edit: Have now started to do so. Am putting these lists onto the actual category page, so if/when there are any proper pages or articles for stuff, the list will show up all nice and handy at the bottom.)

I've also started putting together a little Timeline (http://theholo.net/wiki/index.php/DC_Timeline). I'm trying to keep things as super vague as I possibly can, since timelines get wonky at the best of times, and DC timelines especially so.



Completely unrelated tangent... does anyone have any interest in doing a police character at all? I have a few ideas, but I don't want to do 'em on my onsies.

[Droo]

Bloody hell, you've been busy! Great work, Jace. I know you said you're still tweaking the format, so any contributions I have to make will be posted here for the time being.

As for a police character: nothing springs to mind, right now, but if inspiration strikes, I'll let you know.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I added the Crows to the gangs, hope I did it right. :D

[John Constantine]

I added the Crows to the gangs, hope I did it right. :D

Looks good to me! :smokin

Though, I'm hardly the expert.

[Hector Hall]

Ugh. Really, John? Can you not like... go outside to do that? :|

[Kid Flash]

The new page format thingy for the wiki now works for DC characters, a la - Wally West (http://theholo.net/wiki/index.php/Wally_West).

*fanfare* *confetti* ...etc :dance

Feel free to go ahead and set up your own pages, and pester me if you're not sure what your page should be called, what to put in which box, etc. If you don't want to, don't know how to, or just plain can't be bothered, make sure you let me know: I'm happy to do pages for people, if it means we end up with a wiki that isn't full of missing pages and gaps and what-not. :)

If you are going to make a page, please make sure that the name matches one of the accounts you have registered (so it's easy to find), and that you pick the most unique name you have, so that any "this name could mean several people" page names are free for disambiguation pages.

If you're not sure what you should be filling in, just guess... worst case scenario I will dress up as the wiki fairy and come fiddle with your business. :mischief

[Supergirl]

I have no idea what I'm doing with wikis and stuff but can take a look tonight, see if I can work it out.

[Kid Flash]

I have no idea what I'm doing with wikis and stuff but can take a look tonight, see if I can work it out.

Figured I would make your life slightly easier (http://theholo.net/wiki/index.php/Supergirl). I've filled in the box on the right, and the timeline box at the bottom. All you need to do is -

a) hit Edit at the top and fill in the little texty parts with what it says to put there
b) click where it says "File:Supergirl.jpg" and upload the picture you want to have

Pictures on character pages are 248px wide, and 320px high. I have no idea why that's the size we use, it just is. :uhoh

[Supergirl]

Ohh, thanks :)

[Batman]

Given that this is a rebooting of the DC setting here on Fans, I just want to bring something up that is a big deal as far as DC goes, and it's something that was discussed briefly on AIM the other night - posting here for the benefit of those not present at the time.

The Justice League.

As this is a rebooting of the setting, I'd like to actually start with a situation where the Justice League is not yet established. For three reasons. Firstly, playing Batman, I'm going to be busy. There's going to be a lot going on in Gotham both in the day and night. Bruce has Wayne Enterprises to run, and Batman has asses to kick. There's a lot of content to be roleplayed just there by itself, and having Justice League stuff going on right off the bat is a bit much. Secondly, I think it would be more fun to actually co-operatively roleplay the formation of the Justice League. As this is our own take on the DC Universe, it makes sense to mould as much of it as we can to our own designs. I want it to be our Justice League, and building it brick by brick, together, over time seems like a more natural way to do it, rather than "Read this wall of text which explains what the deal is with Justice League in your setting, once you've read it, you're clued up enough to contribute meaningfully." Thirdly, I'd quite enjoy roleplaying the construction of the space station and/or Lunar base for the headquarters.

My idea is this: One immediate long-term goal of Wayne Enterprises will be commercial spaceflight with a view to branching out to nearby planetary bodies. That means research and testing. Mitch is playing Hal Jordan who will be working at WE as a test pilot which fits in nicely with this idea. Working up from high-atmo to sub-orbital and eventually actual spaceflight, this progression will naturally lead into the construction of stations in high Earth orbit and maybe on the surface of the moon. This will in turn lead to the discovery of some terrible truth regarding some sort of threat. I think I used Braniac as an example on the chat last night. Whatever, it would clearly be too much for conventional armed forces to handle, as well as being beyond the capabilities of any one hero. This threat would directly call for the formation of some sort of organisation equiped with the personnel and the technology to oppose it - Justice League.

Rather than Justice LEague being an elite club for only the cool kids, it would be open to anybody interested since it'll be formed by us roleplaying it out together.

Thoughts? Personally I think it could be a fun, cool story arc for people to get in on. It certainly doesn't stop anyone from playing specific heroes - Justice League can simply come later.

[Kid Flash]

I'm not a fan of the Justice League being brand spanking new.

Everyone knows what the Justice League is. There doesn't need to be a big wall of text explaining it, because anyone who knows anything about DC gets the basic gist of what the Justice League is. That is a really useful narrative resource for us, particularly since we are (at the moment) focused on telling stories only in Gotham City. Saying that there is a Justice League lets players know in two words that there is a superhero community out there that is working together and cooperating: that makes it a lot easier to find excuses for why everyone is in Gotham. It lets prospective players know that "okay, the big global threats are being dealt with in the background", as opposed to us needing to have Darkseid show up and start smashing up downtown Gotham.

On a personal level, t makes playing Kid Flash much easier: a Justice League means that people in Gotham will actually know who the Flash is, rather than him being a Central City specific hero, and helps explain why Barry Allen is "too busy" to show up and help out Wally whenever he needs it. Not having a Justice League diminishes Green Arrow and Booster Gold somewhat too: if there's no Justice League, there's no reason for anyone to have even heard of Green Arrow outside of his home city; and writing Booster Gold as a media whore is much easier if there's a Justice League rolling their eyes at him for it. It probably makes writing Supergirl easier too: it gives her cousin "more important things" to be worrying out in the background to explain why he's not playing an active part in her life.

I don't think any of what you're trying to accomplish needs the Justice League to be new though.

Think of it in terms of the Avengers movies. Perhaps right now, the Justice League is in The Avengers mode. They teamed up to save the world from aliens, they've worked together to stop a few earthquakes, they've got a name because the media asked for one, but at the end of it all they go their separate ways. There's no base, no space station, no Hall of Justice in Washington, DC: they're just a group of heroes who happen to know each other, perhaps with some Samuel L Jackson style character who knows how to get in touch with them if he needs to. Super vague, super informal.

Then Bruce Wayne comes along, and does what Tony Stark did. He builds the headquarters, he builds the fancy jets, he establishes the communications networks, he starts recruiting people (from Gotham, since they're local) and sending them on missions. We still get to build the Justice League brick by brick and make it into whatever form we want/need to suit our story... but we also have the added benefit of being able to use "Justice League" as a two-word explanation to hand wave away any backstory problems.

Best of both worlds?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I don't really have a dog in the fight because Babs isn't a superhero, but I think it's not far fetched to say that in the Internet age that people have heard of all the various super heroes even if they're not expecting them to be in Gotham.

Also I lean toward preferring building the JLA since my characters are just starting out on their journey, and I know Green Lantern is a brand new hero too.

[Green Arrow]

Possibly, but that feels like an "excuse" rather than actual good story logic to me. ^_^;

I guess what's making me uneasy is that we've suddenly gone from having an established superhero world to suddenly telling an origin story for almost everyone. We seemed to all be on the same page about the holes being square, and so that's why I have made my characters the shape that I have. If I now have to make them fit into round holes, I'm going to have to cut off the corners and lose a lot of what the characters are. Had I known from the start that there would be no Justice League, I would have written completely different versions of the characters. And we're talking "everyone knows Oliver Queen is the Green Arrow" levels of completely different, not just minor tweaks that I can easily retcon in.

Don't want to bore everyone with the specifics... but without the Justice League, Wally and Ollie basically end up seeming like illogical douchebags, if you place them under any degree of scrutiny, and that is a somewhat disheartening position to find myself in.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I think in the middle is the common ground we can all agree with. A proto-JLA, or the beginnings of OUR version of the JLA (since we don't have all the JLA characters and I don't think we want to have our hands tied behind our backs in that regard) - so that would be the characters mentioned so far in Flash, Green Arrow, Superman?, and Batman. Batman would bring in Green Lantern through Hal working with him, and they can do the moonbase creation stuff I heard you guys wanted to do.

Et cetera?

edit: And of course the idea is the JLA takes care of stuff going on so we can play how we want in Gotham. So we aren't RPing Justice League events, persay, we are just doing what we want.

[Droo]

I am with Jace on this. I have already created my character around the fact that there is an established world of superheroes out there. And I really like this character that has taken shape in my head. To go back on that now would be a bit crap, to be honest.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Well, like I said, it doesn't effect my characters either way, I just would like to help facilitate a good writing enviroment! The answer is usually somewhere in the middle where there's an established world of superheroes but still room to do some of the big things others might want to do (but also so we don't HAVE to RP any of the big stuff).

[Supergirl]

This doesn't really impact me; there's still an established group of superheroes out there, whether or not they're working under the name 'Justice League'. So I'll let the people with the characters involved decide :)

I'm not sure why not having a Justice League would massively impact how long some superheroes have been active, though? Maybe they just never got together before? Or never slapped an official name on it when they did?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Superman's Potluck Dinners and World Saving Team a go go go

[Captain Untouchable]

How about we have it be some sort of super casual Superman and his super-friends thing, and have "Justice League" be the name that the media has given them? They're like the Justice Society from the old days, but they're in a "league of their own", or something cheesy like that.

We still get the advantages of there having been a Justice League, both in terms of characters having worked together and also in terms of public awareness, but it's not a formal "team" per se. Heck, it's probably Superman's fault: he's probably being all hippie and casual about it, which is why Batman decides that enough is enough, and takes it upon himself to turn Team Casual into everything Peter already suggested.

Perhaps that marks the transition from being the "Justice League" to being the "Justice League of America"? In the current comics, the Justice League is the team established by Superman/Batman/etc, whereas the Justice League of America is/was the version endorsed by the United States government. If Batman is transforming us from something informal to something official, perhaps adding the "of America" is part and parcel of that... a more formal name for a more formal team?

[Supergirl]

Not a bad idea. I don't know how people want to play it though, so I'll leave it to you guys to sort :).

Also, I hate the 'of America' thing. I mean, there's no 'Justice League of France', is there? Are they just like "Darkseid is attacking... oh, no, it's cool, it's Paris, don't have to worry."

[Calloway Sharr]

There was a Justice League Europe, actually. It was hilarious. Not as hilarious as Justice League Antarctica, though, which was captained by G'nort.

[Captain Untouchable]

There's also the Justice League International, which was led by Booster Gold and featured as many non-Americans as it could get it's hands on, for UN-related publicity reasons. Whole lot of B-list heroes.

The "of America" is more about country of origin, government oversight, etc. The Justice League is American in the same way that the Avengers and SHIELD are American. Or, hell, in the same way that the US military and the CIA are American. Doesn't in any way impact where they can go, what countries they can fight in, etc... it's just an indicator of who is responsible for holding them accountable.

If the America thing is really an issue for people though... we could always echo the Batman Incorporated thing from the comics, and treat the Justice League as a business or a franchise. Justice League Incorporated or something.

[Booster Gold]

Slight tangent.

Booster Gold is from the 25th Century, and he usually has some sort of vague awareness of history. He doesn't know anything secret: just the stuff that an employee at a superhero museum 400 years in the future might know. He might know who Green Arrow is, because Oliver Queen usually makes his identity public at some point. He might know that Green Lantern is "the first guy, not the black guy". That sort of thing.

However, we're in a bit of an alternate universe where stuff is different. From Booster's perspective: is history "correct", or is it like The Flash, and he comes from a future where things are a little bit different? For example, is the fact that Barbara Gordon was never Batgirl also true for his future, or is he going to come back and be disappointed about not getting to meet the redhead Batgirl because "she's the hot one"? If Lex Luthor were to run for President, would Booster Gold be aware that it's probably a bad idea? That sort of thing.

The Flash-style option feels like it has more story potential, particularly since it opens up the possibility for Booster's knowledge about the past to be "wrong" because of any wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff (which is the less OP option), but it's not something I feel comfortable deciding on my own and forcing everyone else to go along with. :uhoh

[Supergirl]

I don't mind the 'of America' thing being here. I just don't like it in the comics/movies. But it's how it is. I still think it's not quite right. (I mean, the Avengers may be mainly American, but they aren't 'The American Avengers!' in name). But that's a complaint with DC as a whole, not how we do things here.

As for Booster's question, I vote Flash style, as that means not everything is dictated by how Booster sees it (and a lot of things can be vague; like I know in the Flash comics, things were vague for history for Eobard about the Flash until he time travelled back, so things don't necessarily need to be 100% known).

[Halajiin Rabeak]

The reason the Justice League was called the Justice League of America is two-fold, per the history of the actual comic itself, coming from the industry side. First, it was an update on the Justice Society of America, which in itself was a play on the Society of Nations, back in the 30's and 40's, which the USA was nor part of. The word "America" was added to make it clear that these were heroes for America, as comics sold to a primarily American audience.

In the 60's, when the Justice League was formed, the head of DC at the time liked baseball, and since the Society of Nations had crumbled, and was reformed as the United Nations, he decided that "Society" wasn't the right word, and that heroes should be in a "League" like baseball. So, they became the "Justice League." The "of America" part was added partly due to patriotism, and partly as a throwback to the Justice Society of America, in order to establish some false continuity.

That's the real-world reason for the "America" in the name. As far as I'm concerned, we could simply have a "Justice League" in general, here, without a country affiliation, since the world is so alarmingly sensitive and looks to find racism/nationalism where it isn't, so leaving out "America" would make the news happy.

[Batman]

How about we have it be some sort of super casual Superman and his super-friends thing, and have "Justice League" be the name that the media has given them? They're like the Justice Society from the old days, but they're in a "league of their own", or something cheesy like that.

We still get the advantages of there having been a Justice League, both in terms of characters having worked together and also in terms of public awareness, but it's not a formal "team" per se. Heck, it's probably Superman's fault: he's probably being all hippie and casual about it, which is why Batman decides that enough is enough, and takes it upon himself to turn Team Casual into everything Peter already suggested.

Perhaps that marks the transition from being the "Justice League" to being the "Justice League of America"? In the current comics, the Justice League is the team established by Superman/Batman/etc, whereas the Justice League of America is/was the version endorsed by the United States government. If Batman is transforming us from something informal to something official, perhaps adding the "of America" is part and parcel of that... a more formal name for a more formal team?

If people are cool with this, then I say we go for it. It allows whats established to remain just so, but allows me to run with what I had in mind. It certainly won't be a quick turnaround though. My plan is to have something happen and Batman will realise that despite what the Justice League is capable of right now, it's not enough. And so he invests in it to make it greater.

[Supergirl]

I don't mind what we do. I don't wanna make a big thing out of the 'of America' thing. It bugs me in the comics but I don't care what we do here :). It doesn't bother me majorly :).

[Lucius Fox]

We don't have to rename it "of America", but I like it being an informal media-created term that sticks. The project could just officially adopt the name when Wayne starts to develop and invest in it, off the books of course - don't want Bruce Wayne to suddenly appear to be publicly funding superheroes and at a press conference Bruce is there with every single member apart from Batman - Jimmy Olson might put two and two together!

[Li Ho Fook]

No, Jimmy Olsen has never put two and two together in his entire life. He is incapable of it. He is the most inept news agent of all time.

Also, he's ginger.

[Kid Flash]

Guys, we need to have some sort of fancy party in Gotham.

For important reasons (https://instagram.com/p/9N4if0gVMC/).



(helloooooooo ladies :mischief)

[Supergirl]

As if Wally would ever dress that smart :p

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Grant Gustin is just the cutest ever. :swoon:

[Wally West]

As if Wally would ever dress that smart :p

Then I guess you don't want to dress up and come see the new Bond move, Kara. :colbert

[Supergirl]

What's a Bond movie and why would we dress up for it? (IC :p)

[Wally West]

You have been on Earth for a year, and no one has had the decency to introduce you to James Bond?

http://imagesmtv-a.akamaihd.net/uri/mgid:file:http:shared:mtv.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/depressed-1424874394.gif

My room. Bring popcorn and a sleeping bag. We are having a marathon. :|

[Supergirl]

I spent that time on a farm! Ask me a question about farming and I've got it down! That's about it.

Okay, okay, I'm there. Is this gonna suck?

[Wally West]

Is a movie marathon about the coolest, most suave and sophisticated spy in the history of the entire human race "gonna suck"?

No Kara. No it is not. :uhoh

[Supergirl]

So what you're saying is this man is the 'coolest' person humanity has to offer so if I'm not impressed by him, all of humanity therefore sucks, right?

[Scout Ravenwood]

So, on another note, how would people feel if I made Stephanie Brown as Batgirl? As it'd kinda cut out Babs Batgirl career but I sorta wanna >.>

[Dick Grayson]

The universe is a happier place with Steph in it :)

[Halajiin Rabeak]

Who says we can't have multiple Batgirls?

[Scout Ravenwood]

Well it'd get confusing codename wise :p

[Barbara Gordon]

I already picked Oracle as my code name ;)

[Scout Ravenwood]

I know, but I meant if you wanted it later or we got a Cassandra. Do we have a Robin yet? Steph could be Robin :p

[Dick Grayson]

For that matter, where's the old Bat himself?

[Maxwell Lord]

I kinda alluded in a Jason Todd post to there having been a Robin who "replaced" him, but I left it kinda vague and open-ended.

Personally, I say just go with Batgirl. If someone comes along to play Cassandra, they can always use her "Black Bat" codename. Steph should definitely have been a Robin first though - it sucks that everyone (including Batman) keeps acting as if that didn't happen / doesn't count. Maybe after Jason Todd disappeared, she was all "Batman needs a Robin!" and started doing solo stuff in a Robin costume to attract Batman's attention, not realising that Jason was "dead"? Becoming Batgirl was sort of a... Batman is still in mourning, he's not ready for a new Robin yet sort of thing. That way it doesn't matter if there was a Batgirl before you or not: you've got the name because Batman gave you the name, sorta thing.


For that matter, where's the old Bat himself?

Peter is our Batman... I just haven't roped him into a thread yet. Have something planned, just need to get around to writing it. :uhoh

[Scout Ravenwood]

Maybe, but Steph has always been pushy and disapproved by Bruce. I like her as the Robin he doesn't like lol, and it gives us a Robin, which could be fun. Then she could work towards being Batgirl.

[Maxwell Lord]

We've literally only just started, though. Our Batman hasn't even posted yet. It might be jumping the gun a bit to assume that no one wants to be Tim or Damian... especially when you're about to start writing Steph. Doesn't it make more sense to keep your options open in case someone wants to come write the Tim / Steph dynamic with you?

Also, as far as being disapproved of by Bruce, being a self-styled Batgirl could potentially play on that. You're "stealing his brand", and he gets to be cranky about that. Then you get to be all sassy about how you're actually copying Batwoman, and point out how egotistical it is for Bats to assume everything is about him. ;)

[Barbara Gordon]

Well right now, no one wants to be Tim or Damian. And if they do, then she could transition from Robin to a Batgirl? I think we need more villains personally, we've got a plethora of heroes. :)

[Booster Gold]

The "right now no one wants to play" argument seems like faulty logic to me. Batman hasn't posted yet. Peter hasn't filled out a plotter yet. No one is sure of what our version of Batman is going to be like, so of course no one has decided that they want to be Batman's sidekick yet. No one has any idea what they'd be letting themselves in for.

Like I said, feels a little bit like jumping the gun. Give Peter the chance to actually post before we conclude that no one wants to be his Robin. :p

[Scout Ravenwood]

Just to counter-argue here a moment... firstly, Tim is only Robin in the Steph/Tim relationship when Steph is spoiler. After she becomes Robin, he becomes Red Robin. So her being Batgirl and him being Robin would be out of sequence anyway. If the argument is 'what if we get a Tim?' a) the same argument applies for 'what if we get a Cassandra?' and b) the argument should be Steph should be Spoiler, neither Batgirl nor Robin.

Secondly, we haven't concluded nobody wants to be Batman's Robin. In fact, we've concluded I want to be his Robin. You've just done the exact thing you complained about, you've dismissed Steph as a legitimate Robin. She counts just as much as Tim or Damien, and Tim has his Red Robin alter-ego anyway as an alternative. So why does me wanting to have Robin be Steph be any different than somebody wanting to write Tim or Damien as Robin (in which point the exact same 'but what if somebody wants to write the other Robins' argument applies)?

Or is it just because Steph is a girl so not a 'stereotypical' Robin?

[Booster Gold]

Well for starters, there's no need to make this about Steph's gender.

If you want to write a Batman & Robin story, and you happen to want to write a female Robin, go ahead. You absolutely can do that. However, that is not what you have said at any point so far. You started out asking if people would mind you writing Batgirl, and that turned into a conversation about codenames where you casually suggested using Robin instead. I am basing my comments purely on the information you have actually given: you did not say, until just now, that you want to write Robin - you said that you wanted to write Batgirl, and were concerned about the codename.

*shrug* Sorry for responding to what you said, instead of what you were thinking. ;)

[Scout Ravenwood]

I didn't mean to imply anything by the gender comment. Just that on a surface level, if you want the 'standard' look of Batman and Robin, having a girl is different. I accept that.

Sure, I started off wanting to be Batgirl, but I changed my mind as I thought it through and discussed it here :p. I can do that sometimes >.>.

[Dick Grayson]

Be the Robin.

Robin's are cool.

;)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

We should have a whole flock of Robins. Batman can unleash them like a swarm. >D

[Booster Gold]

Well next time you change your mind in the middle, make sure you let the rest of us know. :p

A female Robin is an awesome idea. You just hadn't actually said that's what you were wanting to do. ;)

[Batman]

Just reading the thread and wanted to apologise for not being active just yet. Got some real - life shit going on right now, the jury is out on how serious it is. I am making an effort behind the scenes to be involved, it just hasn't transitioned into posting yet. If the proverbial weather clears for me, it'll happen sooner rather than later, but as Geoffrey Rush says in Shakespeare In Love - its coming.

[Scout Ravenwood]

Didn't that actually happen in the comics? There be a whole flock of Robins :p

I thought my change of mind was obvious by my enthusiasm. Sorry :p

I'm still undecided. I'll spend a few days probably making my mind up.

Also, no rush, Batman :). Although if you can weigh in on a Robin opinion that'd be cool :p.

[Jason Garrick]

I think we need more villains personally, we've got a plethora of heroes.

To that end... would anyone mind if I wrote a female version of Firefly, inspired by last night's Gotham?

Pyromaniac Cinderella seems like she'd be fun to write, and her costume looked so cool. :swoon:

http://cdn.wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/Firefly-1-640x321.jpg

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I don't think anyone would mind, but I do worry about one person taking on too many characters and not being able to keep up once the stories start expanding. So if you think you can, and you want to, then go for it?

[Green Lantern]

Oh, any hero/Gotham entity who wants to show up in Green is Not My Color, now can. Pretty sure most of the city is aware that the top just got taken off of a luxury high-rise, by some new, strange hero, to help stop a fire. =)

Said hero is NOT prepared to deal with the media/police firestorm he's about to get hit with. =P

[Kid Flash]

Bear in mind that I'm pretty much trapped in my house for medical reasons... I don't exactly have a shortage of free time. ;)

Plus... like you pointed out yourself, we've got a shortage of villains. Someone's gonna have to start writing 'em, else things are going to get a smidge dull... might as well be the guy with nothing better to do. :)

[Stephanie Brown]

I happened :p. And I'm (very temporarily) not Batgirl or Robin, but Spoiler :p

[Etrigan]

At last, I think it is now time
For I to step forth and announce
The demon who speaks all in rhyme
(shut up, this style, it totally counts!)

If weak you are to powers arcane,
If Kryptonian you are, perhaps -
I will gladly unleash demonic flames
Prepare yourself for swift collapse!

Be wary though, don't judge too quick
For truly evil I am not;
Misconception is the likely trick
To make the air between us hot

Come one, come all, come face the fires
Within the shadows that fill this place
If combat is what your heart desires
Then Etrigan the Demon you may face!

:mischief


(judge me not, it is no crime... the lore states I may only speak in rhyme :uhoh)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Please don't forget about these RPs. If you are waiting on someone that's fine, but if people are waiting on you then a post about your continued involvement in the setting would be appreciated.

I'll be here to post whenever I'm up as Barbara. And now I have to double check I don't have anyone waiting on me :uhoh

[Supergirl]

I'm really sorry for the posts I owe. I will try to get to them soon. I've been a bit out of sorts with RPing lately, and just guilty-pleasure RPing whatever I feel like, instead of being conscious to the posts I owe. I will try and get to these over the next few days.

[Captain Untouchable]

I'm mostly waiting on people (I think?), but if there are any posts I owe that have slipped my mind/notice, give me a nudge!

I've got a couple of characters too where the intro threads haven't got far enough for me to do stuff with them yet. If someone wants a run-in with Bane, Booster Gold, or Jason Blood / Etrigan, I would not be opposed to additional shenanigans.