Scrap faction forums

[Dasquian Belargic]

I'd like to make the suggestion that we scrap faction forums entirely and move all Star Wars RP into the main forum.

Thoughts?

[Zereth Lancer]

The obvious issue is that we would end up with 3+ pages of active threads. We all know how quickly threads fall on the wayside once they leave the first page. People forget their threads or new threads go unnoticed. Maybe some of you keep a bank of thread links somewhere so you don't have to go digging for your threads. You are just turning navigating sub forums into sifting through pages for that one thread title you are looking for.

Personally I love faction forums. If I want to go find a thread on Ossus to join into I just have to go to one sub forum. So unless we start employing tags, icons, and titles together like "JEDI: Initiation" to make them easy to search for, sifting through the first couple pages for a thread would be a trial. If you don't get any replies to your starter and it gets shoved back a few pages well shoot, your out of luck. Ain't nobody going to find it.

Unless there is a practical reason like reducing server load or cost of upkeep I don't think it's necessary. That's my opinion.

[Dasquian Belargic]

My reasoning behind it is that with the exception of three forums (Ossus, Cloud City, and Onderon), most of the sub-forums are never used.

Most of the Alliance and Imperial forums haven't been posted in since 2012. One of the Alliance forums contains just 2 threads. One of the Imperial forums has never been posted in at all.

I could see a case for moving those three, individual active forums into a different location - but keeping them all spread out as they are seems a little pointless to me.

[Droo]

I can't abide all the forums, but I wouldn't suggest moving everything into one place. One factions forum with three or four sub-forums would be ample, I reckon.

[Captain Untouchable]

Subjectively, I think this is a good idea. I keep not noticing when threads tucked away in Cloud City have been posted to; having everything in "general population" would make it much easier to keep tabs on what is going on.

Also, it bugs me slightly that I have two recent threads that partially take place on Cloud City, but are in Star Wars Roleplaying because a big chunk happens elsewhere... my OCD would be very happy with this. :uhoh

Objectively though, there are some logistical "thoughts" that spring to mind.


There were 66 Star Wars posts on Fans this last week (since Friday 14th). If they were all in the Star Wars Roleplaying thread, that would be two and a half pages of threads. While some are from our flurry of post-as-everyone activity last weekend, just in the last 48 hours (since the 20th) there have been 23 posts: that's almost an entire page.
Charley likes to talk about subforums in terms of the number of clicks he has to do (which is a pretty good metric)... getting from the front page to the Ossus or Cloud City subforums takes two clicks; getting from the front page to the third page of the Star Wars Roleplaying is three clicks. It's a net gain if you're looking for both Jedi and Cloud City threads on the same day, but a potential loss if you're looking for a specific thread.
7 of the posts since the 14th have been related to Cloud City and Corellia. Cloud City has Imperials, Black Sun, and characters affiliated with neither. Corellia has Imperials, Black Sun, rebels (but not Alliance rebels), and unaffiliated people like the mafia and CorSec. If we're doing away with geographic forums, are we going to replace them with geographic topic tags?
Currently, only the general SW tags have a "complete", which means that using it robs your thread of any faction-specific topic tag it may have had. Do we need open/closed/complete tags for every conceivable faction, or do we need an alternative?


I definitely think this is a good idea, and I am totally onboard with it; I just think we need to make sure that we've got a strategy in place for how we're going to make it as user-friendly as possible. We need an "official topic tags and thread tagging" policy, and we should try and stick to it / enforce it as best we can.

My personal suggestion would be -

Get rid of open/closed/complete tags. If it's an open thread, or if it's finished, writing (open) or (complete) in the subject would serve the same purpose, and it cuts down on the number of topic tags we need to have.
Have tags based on which "interest group" it is relevant to. If there was a thread between Moff Rübezahl and Baroness Tagge, it would be "more relevant" to know that it is a Cloud City thread than it being a conversation between Imperials, so there'd be a "Cloud City" tag for that. If it's Zem Vymes and Abarai Loki going on a Jedi adventure however, "Jedi" is the interest group it applies to; it's not as relevant that it happens on Raxacoricofallapatorius. There might be a general "Alliance" tag, but there might also be matching "Novgorod" and "Senate" tags, since those threads are relevant to a different group of people.
Thread tagging could be used for all kinds of things, like categories on a wiki. The Vanguards arc might be tagged as "Alliance" and "Imperial" since it's relevant to both factions; also tagged as "Novgorod"; as a "Major Event" that everyone should take note of, and possibly as "Vanguards" as well so that you can see the whole story together. As well as tagging threads "Jedi", they could be tagged as "Ossus" of they occur on the planet, and/or "Jedi Missions" if action happens elsewhere instead/as well. Instead of threads just being in a faction specific subforum, they can effectively be in multiple subforums at the same time.


That's my £0.02, anyway. :)

[Kale]

With the exception of the Wheel/Ossus, I've used the Imperial or Alliance subforums very rarely if at all. I was actually surprised to see that we had subforums like The Alliance Frontier and The Imperial Rim. I've always seen faction forums as representing home base for each faction - you'd see training threads, council meetings, action at the barracks or the pub, internal conflicts, and the occasional infiltration story there, but any mission into deep space belongs in the main RP forum.

Granted, we've never adhered to that idea strictly. Senate threads seem to happen in the main forum, and I've seen a smattering of academy threads and meetings of top Alliance or Imperial officials there, too. But, given the load the main forum handles, and the dearth of threads in a lot of the subforums, I certainly think it makes sense to condense things. Perhaps condense the Alliance into "The Alliance Homeworlds" and "The Jedi Academy - Ossus," and the Empire into "Imperial Core" and "Imperial Bespin."

For that matter, would it be possible to make it so when you click on the Alliance link on the front page, you see links to Ossus and the Jedi Archives at the top of the page, and the actual Alliance forum directly underneath? This removes a layer of navigation (removing clicks, as Jace pointed out) and makes the Alliance subforum much more visible. We could easily do the same thing for the Empire and the Circle.

[T'yeellaa Meorrrei]

I think one forum per "faction" would help to keep different areas separate but also make it easy to navigate. I'm okay with alt forums, but like Jace mentioned, clicking 2 or 3 times to get to a venue is a chore. I'm a terribly lazy creature

[Lilaena De'Ville]

How about just one forum per faction Jedi, Alliance, Imperial, Circle and so it's just one click to get into all of them.

our main problem is we just don't have the number of RPers needed to justify a handful of forums per faction. We probably have less members active now than TSO had on an off day in 2001, but stripping out the forums entirely will get rid of some infrastructure we wish we had back later, perhaps.

With not being able to filter by topic tag sticking all threads in one forum will be a nightmare IMO. Get that feature back, and going through and streamlining the topic tags in a way that makes sense is really something that should be done regardless.

[Reshmar]

My thoughts.

Galactic Empire sub forum -
1. Move the War room threads into the Grand Library. I am not sure we want to throw all the archived threads into the main Imperial section do we? Maybe even take some older threads and archive them also.
2. Keep Bespin. get rid of the academy.
3. Put the Core and the Rim into a single section.

Alliance sub forum -
1. Put Frontiers and homeworlds into one section.
2. Keep Hall of heros as the archive.
3. Keep The Jedi Academy or even give it its own sub forum off the main forum page.

We could take both archive forums and move them out of the faction sub forums into roleplay archive section.

[Droo]

My main concern is similar to Charley's, I hate all of the meandering sub-forums, especially when most are unused. I don't like the idea of moving everything into one roleplaying forum because, in a way, it feels like admitting defeat and assuming there will be no influx of new people when the new movies come about. Navigating the forums should be a streamlined experience.

I don't think we can justify having an Ossus forum and not an Alliance forum, just because everything is going on in the Ossus forum at the moment. Ossus should be highlighted as a hub of activity within the Alliance, in the same way Bespin is a bouncing location in the Empire. I'd suggest having a forum for the Alliance of Free Planets, the Empire, and the Circle, with one sub-forum for their busiest hub of activity. But instead of having to click and then click again to access the Ossus or Bespin sub-forums, just slap a link in the forum description on the front page. It's neat and convenient.

[Zereth Lancer]

I don't know exactly what the capabilities of this board are, but I've seen on other boards where they've put links to each of the sub-forums in the description of the primary link. Not really a solution to the question but something to contemplate for when sub-forums are used. For an example of this check out this -> SITE (http://fromashes.b1.jcink.com/index.php?act=idx) <- and scroll down to the faction zones. It just allows you to jump into a particular sub-forum without having to pass through the door. Personally, I don't mind digging through sub-forums. I like things nice and separated with their own place and if the cost is I have to click the mouse a few times to get there it's not really that big of a deal compared to looking down a list. The tags help, that's for sure. I'm sure we can all learn to get along without faction boards. I come from a different generation of writer than most of the people here on Fans, and I've been around and tasted the fruits, and I know what I like; which is long front pages full of every conceivable location because my OCPD likes it that way.

With that in mind I say cut away the fat and make it sleeker. I agree that the faction forums could easily be cut down into a single forum to cover all the bases in one net. Jedi, Alliance, Empire, Circle. I wrote a big long piece about how we need more post icons and thread tags to convey locations of open threads, but then I realized that we aren't exactly rolling in the open threads so it's pretty easy to peek inside and figure out what's going down when they do pop up.

[Captain Untouchable]

What if we went by geography rather than faction? We've all got so many different characters scattered across the place that the idea of "factions" is probably a bit antiquated now.


Coruscant
Bothawui
Onderon & Hapes
Ossus
Cloud City


I think that'll make the situation a bit more black and white, and will make the subforums easier and more likely to be used. As it stands, you need to know where a planet is before you can work out which subforum to post in; and I think the "Imperial Bespin" style titles can be a little off-putting: it might seem like it is an "Imperials only" forum. This would make it a bit more straight forward. Is there a subforum for the planet your thread is happening on? Then post it in the subforum.

It also makes expansion pretty straight forward as well. If Corellia, Tatooine, or Mandalore become active enough that they start clogging up the Star Wars Roleplaying forum, we can bundle them up and add a subforum to the list with the name of the planet; for pirates it could be the name of their flagship; etc.

[T'yeellaa Meorrrei]

How about alliance worlds, imperial worlds, and neutral worlds?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Or Core, Inner Rim, Outer Rim, Expansion Region and Wild Space

[Dasquian Belargic]

If we move to a geography based set of forums that encompass the whole galaxy, what would be posted in the main SW roleplaying forum?

[Akasha Khan]

Regional organization is an interesting idea, but as someone who isn't very familiar with the Star Wars atlas (and knew nothing at all about it when I joined), seeing a bunch of planet names won't necessarily help me unless I know what's going on at each of those locations. I still feel like dividing things by faction is the most natural and story-focused way to do it. We could potentially do something with the thumbnail descriptions under each forum link to give a better idea of what primary planets are involved in each faction.

[Droo]

I don't like the geography based layout. I think it overly complicates things. Charley's idea is better in that it is faction-based locations, but again, I'm not fond of that because the implication is this: most, if not all, roleplays are going to take place in either Alliance, Imperial, or Neutral space, so what is the point of having the Star Wars Roleplaying forum at all? Having it faction-based means it is the place to go when faction specific business needs to unfold.

That said, most roleplays are in some way inherently faction-based, and they all transpire in the main roleplaying forum. We are, by our posting patterns, effectively admitting faction sub-forums serve little-to-no purpose anyway.

[Emelie Shadowstar]

I'm down for the "one per faction" thing... just because I don't think we have a method of keeping the main SWRP forum really nice and neat and tidy at the moment (and the whole amount of threads/posts thing as well that has been mentioned).


I'd suggest having a forum for the Alliance of Free Planets, the Empire, and the Circle, with one sub-forum for their busiest hub of activity. But instead of having to click and then click again to access the Ossus or Bespin sub-forums, just slap a link in the forum description on the front page. It's neat and convenient. I could see this working out well.

Of course, I could also see just Alliance, Empire, Circle, Jedi

I'd like to see post tags "work" that'd be nice...

As far as Post Icons go... I really love them. :ohno I'd like to see us clean up some of them/find some way to organize them so that we could label stuff. Except... maybe reduce each "faction" one to just Open/Closed/Complete rather than things like the Imperials "New Recruit" one and the Rebel/Alliance planet specific ones.
We have a ton there that really need to get cleaned up, I think (I'm looking at that whole set that's all "Exotic" "Quest" "Raid", etc.) Maybe have it be more like "alignment" than faction with those... keep it to just Jedi / Circle / Alliance / Imperial / Underworld / Other (being the basic "SW" ones we have).
..Of course I'm full crazy and would love for there to be like a generic "Cloud City" set as well if they didn't have their own forum since that's a pretty big hub of activity...Though I also get that this opens a can of worms in just how many "sets" do we want/need/etc to keep things consistent/neat/whatever.

[Captain Untouchable]

I don't like the geography based layout. I think it overly complicates things. Charley's idea is better in that it is faction-based locations, but again, I'm not fond of that because the implication is this: most, if not all, roleplays are going to take place in either Alliance, Imperial, or Neutral space, so what is the point of having the Star Wars Roleplaying forum at all? Having it faction-based means it is the place to go when faction specific business needs to unfold.

That said, most roleplays are in some way inherently faction-based, and they all transpire in the main roleplaying forum. We are, by our posting patterns, effectively admitting faction sub-forums serve little-to-no purpose anyway.

Sorry to pick on you specifically Droo, but I just wanted to clarify just in case it's my geography version you're finding complicated.

Currently, we have "The Jedi Academy - Ossus", "Imperial Bespin", and "Onderon and Beyond". These are the three subforums that are actively used. What I'm suggesting is that instead of them having those faction-specific names, they would be called "Ossus", "Cloud City", and "Onderon & Hapes". They would still be used in exactly the same way, by exactly the same people. Jedi would still post the majority of their stuff in the Jedi forum (or all, if you guys are that opposed to leaving your niche). Cloud City threads would still happen, the same as they currently do. The Circle continues to post where it currently posts... it's just a change of name (only Dathomir threads would be affected...but Dathomir is located in Imperial space instead of Alliance space anyway, so either proposal screws with that).

What's different is that instead of having a series of amorphous, vague Alliance and Imperial subforums, we have one very specific forum linked to a very specific place. If your thread happens on Bothawui (this means Senate, Senators, Alliance Command, most of our Fleeters, Rogue Squadron... almost all Alliance people, basically) you post it in that forum. If it happens anywhere else (Sullust, Dac, Novgorod, border skirmishes, etc) you post it in Star Wars Roleplaying. Currently, the Alliance forum isn't being used at all: this just sets up specific criteria for what threads should be in it.

I'm essentially saying "we keep it how it is now", just with less clutter, some cosmetic changes, and a clearer idea of what is expected to be where.

[Akasha Khan]

Jace, I think your concept sounds functionally pretty similar to how I've always envisioned the faction forums - they're mainly for in-house affairs like training, leadership councils, and internal conflicts that don't directly involve other groups. Nailing these matters down to the geographical areas where they're most likely to happen is probably the most intuitive way to do that. My concern is about newcomers coming in and saying, "Ossus? Onderon? Where are my Rebels and Empires at?" But that's an easy fix. Either we identify the alignment in the forum title ("Ossus - The Jedi Enclave," "Bothawui - Alliance Command") or we include that information in the forum description.

At the same time, we've clearly identified locations where we can cluster the faction-based activity, whether it's TIE pilot training or a Cizerack dignitary meeting with Alliance officials. I think that idea has a lot of merit.

[Charley]

I don't like the geography based layout. I think it overly complicates things. Charley's idea is better in that it is faction-based locations, but again, I'm not fond of that because the implication is this: most, if not all, roleplays are going to take place in either Alliance, Imperial, or Neutral space, so what is the point of having the Star Wars Roleplaying forum at all? Having it faction-based means it is the place to go when faction specific business needs to unfold.

That said, most roleplays are in some way inherently faction-based, and they all transpire in the main roleplaying forum. We are, by our posting patterns, effectively admitting faction sub-forums serve little-to-no purpose anyway.

Sorry to pick on you specifically Droo, but I just wanted to clarify just in case it's my geography version you're finding complicated.

Currently, we have "The Jedi Academy - Ossus", "Imperial Bespin", and "Onderon and Beyond". These are the three subforums that are actively used. What I'm suggesting is that instead of them having those faction-specific names, they would be called "Ossus", "Cloud City", and "Onderon & Hapes". They would still be used in exactly the same way, by exactly the same people. Jedi would still post the majority of their stuff in the Jedi forum (or all, if you guys are that opposed to leaving your niche). Cloud City threads would still happen, the same as they currently do. The Circle continues to post where it currently posts... it's just a change of name (only Dathomir threads would be affected...but Dathomir is located in Imperial space instead of Alliance space anyway, so either proposal screws with that).

What's different is that instead of having a series of amorphous, vague Alliance and Imperial subforums, we have one very specific forum linked to a very specific place. If your thread happens on Bothawui (this means Senate, Senators, Alliance Command, most of our Fleeters, Rogue Squadron... almost all Alliance people, basically) you post it in that forum. If it happens anywhere else (Sullust, Dac, Novgorod, border skirmishes, etc) you post it in Star Wars Roleplaying. Currently, the Alliance forum isn't being used at all: this just sets up specific criteria for what threads should be in it.

I'm essentially saying "we keep it how it is now", just with less clutter, some cosmetic changes, and a clearer idea of what is expected to be where.

I could get behind this as well. Would we also want one for Corellia if we're doing that?

[Droo]

It's complicated in comparison to having only one Star Wars roleplaying forum, as it is now, just, as you said, with less clutter and a cosmetic change. The more these ideas get tossed about (and more planets are being brought up as potential candidates as a result) the less I want to see any of it take place. Experience is telling me that all we're doing is discussing a new lick of paint for the same recurring problem: we don't make enough use of the sub-forums to warrant their existance. This has happened time and time again, and each time we've clarified what the different sub-forums are for, only for them to go barely used, with the majority of threads winding up in the main Star Wars roleplaying forum anyway.

I'm aware I've gone in circles with my stance on this today, but the more I think about it, the more I feel the other forums are wholly unnecessary.

[Captain Untouchable]

My concern is about newcomers coming in and saying, "Ossus? Onderon? Where are my Rebels and Empires at?" But that's an easy fix. Either we identify the alignment in the forum title ("Ossus - The Jedi Enclave," "Bothawui - Alliance Command") or we include that information in the forum description.

Putting info like that in the subforum title makes sense: a bit of a compromise between factions and planets. We'd have to be careful that the title we append is clear enough ("Alliance Capital" might be better than Command; would "Cloud City - Imperial Bespin" be too Imperial; etc), but that's aesthetics as much as anything else.


I could get behind this as well. Would we also want one for Corellia if we're doing that?

When it was broached previously, the consensus was that "It has to earn it first", which is reasonable enough. If we end up with more Corellia (or Mandalore, etc) threads than we're comfortable having clogging up the place, I imagine that would be if and when we added a new forum for it.

[Emelie Shadowstar]

I could get behind this as well. Would we also want one for Corellia if we're doing that?

Just tossing in my +1 and agreeing with the "other" planets/locations being a "as needed/see as we go" thing...?

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I am in favor since it keeps the backbone and - as Holly put it - the infrastructure in place should the need arise for more additions.

[Akasha Khan]

So just for reference, what we're considering is something like this under the current Star Wars Roleplay heading:

Star Wars Roleplaying
A forum for fans to roleplay within the Star Wars Universe. Roleplays here can be open or invite only.

Bothawui: The Alliance Capital
The headquarters for the Alliance of Free Planets, formerly the Rebel Alliance. A family of the great and the small, the young and the old, with honor to all and favor to none.

Ossus: The Jedi Enclave
Home to the newly united Jedi Order under the protection of the Alliance, Ossus also houses the Jedi Academy and the Great Jedi Library.

Coruscant: The Imperial Center
The capital of the Galactic Empire and the seat of the Empress. Treachery and corruption stalks the mile-high streets of the Imperial city.

Bespin: Cloud City
Despite Imperial occupation, Cloud City remains a hotbed for smugglers, thieves, and freedom fighters.

Star Wars Roleplay Archives
Archived roleplaying factions and their threads.


Sorry for the half-assed descriptions, I'm sure we could do better. Would there by any way to visually subordinate the subforums so they 1. don't take up as much space and 2. are clearly identifiable as on a different level from the main RP forum?

[Droo]

Onderon/the Circle also needs to be included on that list, and even without it, that layout will make the front page even more cluttered than it presently is.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Would it be possible to roll Bespin into the Imperial forum? If we trim enough tags (and there a more than a few that I think aren't needed), we could make a Bespin tag (or set) for easy clarification.

[Droo]

You could do that with Bespin and Ossus. I wouldn't have any objections provided we have the topic icons to differentiate between threads. That, or what I suggested earlier, have Bespin and Ossus be sub-forums of the Imperial/Coruscant and Alliance/Bothawui forums, with convenient links to them in the forum descriptions on the front page. That would take two forums off the front page, making it less cluttered, without making them any more difficult to get to.

[Captain Untouchable]

I'd prefer if we didn't just do away with the Cloud City forum.

Having the forum tucked away is acceptable at a pinch, but it seems like we're adding a layer of inconvenience to roleplayers just so we don't have to put up with one or two extra links on the front page. Is that really such a horrible thing?

[Droo]

It's not inconvenient if there's a link on the front page. It will be as inconvenient as clicking a link to any other forum on the front page, provided, of course, that a link can indeed be included in a forum description. I'd be very surprised if it couldn't.

Regarding the front page clutter, in my opinion, yes, this would be very irritating:

Star Wars Roleplaying
Alliance/Bothawui
Jedi/Ossus
Empire/Coruscant
Cloud City/Bespin
Circle/Onderon
Roleplaying Archives

I find our current setup unsightly and, following today's consideration, quite unnecessary as it is. I couldn't honestly support adding yet more forums to the front page in light of that.

[Captain Untouchable]

My concern is that by leaving Cloud City / Ossus / etc still as subforums, we're "shielding" those active posting hubs from the attention they deserve. If someone posts in the Jedi forum, on the front page it shows up as them having posted in the Alliance forum. The Jedi are lucky because they have unique post tags; if someone posts in Cloud City using an Imperial tag, it just looks like an Imperial post. Nothing is drawing attention to the fact that those places are active. Activity is (broadly speaking) what makes people interested in joining in, taking part, and helping that blob of story to grow. If we're thinking ahead to the new movies, and a potential influx of new people, that's something we should consider.

Also, if we keep those subforums nested, we're not really changing anything in a constructive way: it's just a spring clean and some cosmetic tweaks. If we're going to change things, lets actually change things. Lets actually change the bedsheets, instead of just squirting the duvet cover with fabreeze.

[Ledo G. Prent]

So just for reference, what we're considering is something like this under the current Star Wars Roleplay heading:

Star Wars Roleplaying
A forum for fans to roleplay within the Star Wars Universe. Roleplays here can be open or invite only.

Bothawui: The Alliance Capital
The headquarters for the Alliance of Free Planets, formerly the Rebel Alliance. A family of the great and the small, the young and the old, with honor to all and favor to none.

Ossus: The Jedi Enclave
Home to the newly united Jedi Order under the protection of the Alliance, Ossus also houses the Jedi Academy and the Great Jedi Library.

Coruscant: The Imperial Center
The capital of the Galactic Empire and the seat of the Empress. Treachery and corruption stalks the mile-high streets of the Imperial city.

Bespin: Cloud City
Despite Imperial occupation, Cloud City remains a hotbed for smugglers, thieves, and freedom fighters.

Star Wars Roleplay Archives
Archived roleplaying factions and their threads.


Sorry for the half-assed descriptions, I'm sure we could do better. Would there by any way to visually subordinate the subforums so they 1. don't take up as much space and 2. are clearly identifiable as on a different level from the main RP forum?

Even adding Onderon/Hapes to this, its only 2 more links on the front page more than what we have. Honestly, I like this setup a lot.

[Kale]

I'm not sure anyone considers leaving them as subforums a good option so much as a possibly less bad option. I can definitely understand Droo's perspective on the front page getting cluttered.

Another possibility is, as was suggested before, that we have a Factions link (or some more suitable name) between Star Wars RP and Roleplaying Archives. Clicking on that link gets you to a list that includes Bothawui, Ossus, Coruscant, Bespin, and Onderon/Hapes. The benefit is we get a cleaner-looking front page, and the faction forums are still simpler to navigate than they are now. The drawback is that we aren't getting to the individual locales in a single click.

I'm actually starting to lean toward Droo's side of things, in that seven links on the front page under "Star Wars Roleplaying" is an awful lot. It's approaching Wall of Text status, especially if we ever consider adding any more sites.

Another idea I just had: Putting "Star Wars Roleplaying" as a forum under the "Star Wars Roleplay" section is somewhat redundant, so how about "The Star Wars Galaxy" for our catchall forum? It helps to sell the idea of an expansive sandbox in contrast to the geographically focused faction threads. I'm going to try laying out this second option so I can visualize it:

Star Wars Roleplay

The Star Wars Galaxy
A forum for fans to roleplay anywhere within the Star Wars Universe. Roleplays here can be open or invite only.

Star Wars Factions
Alliance or Imperial? Jedi or Darksider? Cast your lot with the heroes and rogues of the galaxy!

Star Wars Roleplay Archives
Archived roleplaying factions and their threads.


And then...

Star Wars Factions

Bothawui: The Alliance Capital
The headquarters for the Alliance of Free Planets, formerly the Rebel Alliance. A family of the great and the small, the young and the old, with honor to all and favor to none.

Ossus: The Jedi Enclave
Home to the newly united Jedi Order under the protection of the Alliance, Ossus also houses the Jedi Academy and the Great Jedi Library.

Coruscant: The Imperial Center
The capital of the Galactic Empire and the seat of the Empress. Treachery and corruption stalks the mile-high streets of the Imperial city.

Bespin: Cloud City
Despite Imperial occupation, Cloud City remains a hotbed for smugglers, thieves, and freedom fighters.

Onderon and the Hapan Cluster
While fragile and covert alliances are forged by Dark Jedi hiding in plain sight, Sith cults rise in the darkest corners of the Galaxy... the Dark Side clouds everything.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I like that a lot. It's neat and concise, and allows a bit more expansion of the factions available without having to jumble everything onto the forum's front face. The only reason I asked about rolling Bespin in was to decrease clutter, but this is a simple and easy solution I feel to accomplish that goal without sacrificing anything.

You have my vote.

[Callomas Savoc]

It's another thread click, but it does lead into forums that ought to have some meat to their bones, so I'm okay with that.

[Droo]

I really like that layout. It's neat on the front page, and consequently not bogged down in a cluttered list, and then all the various factions/locations get fair representation in their own individual forums.

[Captain Untouchable]

I don't like it, but if this is what the majority wants to do I will suck it up and go along.

Can we come up with something other than "Factions", though? These aren't factions, they're roleplay settings, some of which are home to multiple factions.

I think that fact needs to be much clearer in the forum description as well. There's no mention of Black Sun on Coruscant or Cloud City. No mention of Gossam on Ossus. There's no indication that Hapes/Onderon are part of the Alliance (which is pretty darn important), or the fact that Cloud City is now/becoming the new Corporate Sector. There's no mention of the Alliance Senate on Bothawui, despite that being one of the "main" things that would get roleplayed there.

If we're going to hide these forums out of sight, the least we can do is describe them in a way that showcases their content from all the factions/groups involved, not just one that is arbitrarily being given top billing.

[Akasha Khan]

The descriptions I used are placeholders. I fully expect we can improve on them, and making them more inclusive is a great suggestion. I'd also like to come up with a better name than "Factions," though at the moment I'm having a hard time coming up with one. One advantage of using the Factions terminology is that it should be familiar to anyone who's been on a Star Wars RP forum before. However, just mentioning the Alliance and Empire, the Jedi and the Darksiders in the forum description should be enough to clue people in that's where to look.

[Morgan Evanar]

I need to sit down and figure out wtf.

Consider this a placeholder post.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

When are we getting our Scrap Faction, I'm ready to make a Toydarian junk heap owner.

[Akasha Khan]

Any thoughts what we could call the Factions subforum other than "Factions"? I agree with Jace that it's a poor description of what we're doing with those settings - we don't want people to think they can't have a thread on Coruscant unless they're Imperials, or that smugglers can only work out of Bespin. "Core Worlds" doesn't work because they're not all in the core, but how about "Star Wars Homeworlds," with reference to the various factions in the forum description?

Another thing we'll have to be prepared for, especially with newbies, is threads appearing in the main RP forum that really should go to one of those subforums. It makes sense in some cases. The Most Deadly of Weapons (http://theholo.net/forum/showthread.php?55240-The-Most-Deadly-of-Weapons) started on Ossus but is about Loki and Taataani traveling to Ando. Also, people who want to start an open thread in, say, a Coruscant nightclub, may prefer to put it in the main forum for more visibility. It would be great if we could get people to check our "factions" directory as often as they check the RP forum so they're at least seeing the titles of the latest threads on each planet; that would somewhat mitigate the disadvantages of not having those subforums linked from the main page.

Also: is there enough going on at Onderon to justify including it on the list? It seems to me Darth Callidus has moved much of his power base to the Hapan Cluster. Would the Hapan Cluster work as the new base for the Circle? Granted, I actually don't know much about the inner workings of the Circle because my Darksider has been with the Jedi this whole time.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

How about Roleplaying Groups because that's what they are?

[Akasha Khan]

But Bespin isn't a Roleplaying Group, and even though places like Coruscant and Bothawui are centers of activity for the Empire and the Alliance, there's a lot of other stuff that goes on there, too. The idea behind naming the subforums after specific planets is to make them about locations. That way it's less nebulous what kinds of threads belong in the group forums vs. the main RP forum.

Really, the planets are points of interest where a lot of activity is potentially gathered. The Wheel was a great example of that because it wasn't just the Jedi forum - it was also a hub for Rogue Squadron and other Alliance personnel. Bespin has the potential to be Space Casablanca, nominally under the rule of the Empire, but still a hub for smugglers, gamblers, and resistance fighters. Coruscant may be the capital of the Empire, but it's also a place of business and a major base of operations for Black Sun. These aren't just faction forums; they're vibrant locations with a backstory already built up where characters from multiple groups can mingle.

Otherwise, we tend to see a lot of the same sorts of threads in a faction forum... the arrival of a new member, the training thread, the off-duty camaraderie thread, the leadership council thread... those are all well and good, but how much more interesting would it be to see Alliance spies moving contraband on Bespin, or Black Sun expanding their network on Bothawui, or Jedi hunting for relics of the old Order on Coruscant?

[Droo]

Landmarks, story landmarks, or words to that effect? /tired waffle

Or, to steal from SWTOR: flashpoints? "The point at which eruption into significant action, creation, or violence occurs." Kinda fits.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I should have said "that's what they were" I am a dinosaur. :)

Flashpoints sounds good to me.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I like both 'Homeworlds' and 'Flashpoints'. I think I'd lean more to 'Homeworlds', but I'm fine with either one if it comes down to it :)

About all I could think of was 'Junctions'. For some reason this is more frustrating than it should be, trying to think of a word to fit.

[Droo]

I like Homeworlds too. :)

[Rev Solomon]

I'm also down with either. "Flashpoints" is perhaps more on the nose, but it's a little less obvious what it means.

[Droo]

I didn't realise you'd suggested Homeworlds days ago, Andrew, otherwise I'd have been all over that. Flashpoints is a bit of a jarring term, and I think Homeworlds serves its purpose, while fitting seemlessly into the roleplay setting.

[Akasha Khan]

Sounds like "Homeworlds" is winning out! Let me take another crack at this layout:


Star Wars Roleplay

The Star Wars Galaxy
A forum for fans to roleplay anywhere within the Star Wars Universe.

Star Wars Homeworlds
The civilized centers of the galaxy are places of power for the Empire and the Alliance, of teaching for the Force-adept, of opportunity for explorers and scoundrels. This forum is for roleplays set at the headquarters of our various factions.

Star Wars Roleplay Archives
Archived roleplaying factions and their threads.


And then...

Star Wars Homeworlds

Bothawui: The Alliance Capital
The headquarters for the Alliance of Free Planets, formerly the Rebel Alliance. Bothawui is home to all branches of the Alliance military and intelligence services, as well as the seat of the Senate. It is also a haven for those who wish to do business in the Alliance, legal or otherwise.

Ossus: The Jedi Enclave
Home to the newly united Jedi Order under the protection of the Alliance, Ossus also houses the Jedi Academy and the Great Jedi Library. Numerous refugees, such as the Gossam enclave, have also come to Ossus for sanctuary.

Coruscant: The Imperial Center
The capital of the Galactic Empire, home of the Imperial Academy, and the seat of Empress Tarkin I. Treachery and corruption stalk the mile-high streets of Imperial Center, from the penthouses and casinos of the galactically wealthy to the slums of the downtrodden and desperate.

Bespin: Cloud City
Despite Imperial occupation, Cloud City remains a hotbed for smugglers, thieves, and freedom fighters. The Cumulus Casino is the center of Black Sun's network of criminal operations.

Onderon and the Hapan Cluster
The Sith have returned to Onderon and Dathomir under the leadership of Darth Callidus, whose web of manipulation has spread into the royal courts of the Hapan Cluster. Tread carefully in these halls.

[Bette Davis]

There is no Cloud Nine Casino btw, it's Cumulus. Cloud 9 is a bar.

[Charley]

Sounds like "Homeworlds" is winning out! Let me take another crack at this layout:


Star Wars Roleplay

The Star Wars Galaxy
A forum for fans to roleplay anywhere within the Star Wars Universe.

Star Wars Homeworlds
The civilized centers of the galaxy are places of power for the Empire and the Alliance, of teaching for the Force-adept, of opportunity for explorers and scoundrels. This forum is for roleplays set at the headquarters of our various factions.

Star Wars Roleplay Archives
Archived roleplaying factions and their threads.


And then...

Star Wars Homeworlds

Bothawui: The Alliance Capital
The headquarters for the Alliance of Free Planets, formerly the Rebel Alliance. Bothawui is home to all branches of the Alliance military and intelligence services, as well as the seat of the Senate. It is also a haven for those who wish to do business in the Alliance, legal or otherwise.

Ossus: The Jedi Enclave
Home to the newly united Jedi Order under the protection of the Alliance, Ossus also houses the Jedi Academy and the Great Jedi Library. Numerous refugees, such as the Gossam enclave, have also come to Ossus for sanctuary.

Coruscant: The Imperial Center
The capital of the Galactic Empire, home of the Imperial Academy, and the seat of Empress Tarkin I. Treachery and corruption stalk the mile-high streets of Imperial Center, from the penthouses and casinos of the galactically wealthy to the slums of the downtrodden and desperate.

Bespin: Cloud City
Despite Imperial occupation, Cloud City remains a hotbed for smugglers, thieves, and freedom fighters. The Cumulus Casino is the center of Black Sun's network of criminal operations.

Onderon and the Hapan Cluster
The Sith have returned to Onderon and Dathomir under the leadership of Darth Callidus, whose web of manipulation has spread into the royal courts of the Hapan Cluster. Tread carefully in these halls.

looks good to me

[Dasquian Belargic]

Looks good to me.

If there are no objections, I can get this sorted soon.

[Morgan Evanar]

Sup. Originally I was abhorrent at what was coming forward for ideas because HOLY CRAP we're gonna have fundamentally silly differences in geography and I have to figure out where posts go.

This is a much more elegant solution.

[Akasha Khan]

Glad to hear it - I honestly have no idea how this works from a technical standpoint, and the last thing we want to do is create a lot of undue work for the admins! In terms of migrating threads, I think it makes sense to collapse all the IC threads for each faction into their corresponding Homeworld forum?

And, seriously, if you guys have suggestions that will make things cleaner on your end, let us know. I'm actually rather embarrassed that I didn't think to ask you about that. ^_^;

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I would like to retain the current set up of the Circle in their "new" location.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Glad to hear it - I honestly have no idea how this works from a technical standpoint, and the last thing we want to do is create a lot of undue work for the admins! In terms of migrating threads, I think it makes sense to collapse all the IC threads for each faction into their corresponding Homeworld forum?

And, seriously, if you guys have suggestions that will make things cleaner on your end, let us know. I'm actually rather embarrassed that I didn't think to ask you about that. ^_^;

I was thinking we would just shove everything IC into one forum, and all the OOC/extraneous stuff would be archived.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Oh no you guys I pushed some buttans

[Satkia Beltrak]

Yes, you did! I was O.o when I logged on this morning! LOL

Looks good. :D