Nerdmas Plots: Alliance Senate & Government [Archive]

Captain Untouchable

Jan 16th, 2014, 01:49:35 AM

We came up with ideas/etc for an Alliance Parliament/Senate a while ago, but since then we have transformed from a Rebel Alliance to an Alliance of Free Planets, and that requires a slightly different approach. We talked about all sorts of little tweaks and tidbits in Alabama, Nevada, and beyond, including -

To appease those from Alderaan, Corellia, Chandrila, Duros, Ithor, etc who feel like the Alliance has "abandoned" the fight against the Empire, we would like to make Celeste Starborn (previously Alderaan's representative on the Advisory Council) the Speaker / Chairperson of the Senate. The idea is that despite hostilities having ceased, remembering Alderaan is still front and centre in the Alliance's mind.
Senators should mostly be for specific planets (as in the EU books), not for entire sectors: this allows sectors inside Alliance space to have independent worlds if they want to be. However, where an entire sector/region is controlled by a centralised government (Hapes Cluster, Carshoulis Cluster, Bothan Space, Mon Calamari Space), there should be a MAXIMUM of two Senators: otherwise, the 150 inhabited worlds of Bothan Space would translate to 150 Bothan Senators, and the Senate would be unfairly biased. If there are other species in a Sector/region, they would have Representatives as part of the Senatorial entourage (a la Jar Jar Binks).
Some Senators are also Ministers. It would be useful to make sure we have relatively active people filling roles like Minister of State, Defense, Security, Supply, Trade/Commerce, Justice, etc so there are people for other Senators to interact with. Some of these roles may be filled already; others may be subject to tweaking.
Ministers don't have to do everything on their own, and there should be plenty of committees and sub-committees. Salem Ave (Onderon) is the Minister of State, but might have a committee including representatives from the four big regions (Hapes, Carshoulis, Bothan, Mon Cal) to help determine foreign policy. The Minister of Supply might have committees for agriculture/food, industry, shipbuilding, etc. There might be committees for education, art and culture, or tourism. There might be a special committee with representatives from refugee groups, or with Representatives of races who don't have a specific Senator (Gungans, Veknoids, Krantians, etc), to make sure their concerns/etc are being addressed.
Representatives don't have to be for races or planets. The Republic had a Senator for the Trade Federation, a pseudo-corporate entity: the Alliance might have Representatives for major manufacturers, corporations, banks, etc, to sit on relevant sub-committees.
There are numerous planets within Alliance territory that are not necessarily aligned / loyal to us. Senators may want to broker trade deals, negotiate defensive pacts, and ultimately try and convince them to join. Good examples include Ando (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ando), Geonosis (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Geonosis), Lannik (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lannik_%28planet%29), Junction (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Feriae_Junction), and Zeltros (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zeltros). The Trandoshans, native to the Kashyyyk system, also present an interesting conundrum: they are slavers, and bitter enemies of the Wookiees, and might not be a culture that the Alliance finds "tolerable". There may also be Imperial citizens who want to leave... or who want to remain in their homes but not be subject to the Alliance. The Imperial and Trandoshan issue might make for an interesting Senate debate thread.
Historically, the Alliance has made extensive use of smuggling as a way to get supplies. Now they are a legitimate government, and smuggling eats into their customs and tax revenue. How to deal with legal and illegal trade across the borders, and how to screen and tax that trade is another big and contentious issue that might be fun to debate.
The Alliance does not have an extensive military, and we only have a Treaty with the Empire. The Hutts in particular are a significant threat on our borders, and there are other potential independent powers like the Centrality and the Tion Cluster with whom we will need to negotiate separate treaties and alliances.

We also discussed the idea of establishing Alliance Security in the wake of the Dan/s'Il crisis. Similar to the EU, this would be an Alliance version of the Imperial Security Bureau, and would guard against internal threats like Imperial sympathisers, terrorists, criminals wanted on multiple worlds, and also against more Dan/s'Ilancy style threats from evil Jedi. Our idea is that Dasquian Belargic, who was prisoner-exchanged when the Treaty was signed, would be the inaugural Director.

Captain Untouchable

Jan 16th, 2014, 01:57:45 AM

Alliance Senate

Celeste Starborn - Senator for New Alderaan; Speaker of the House (Human)
Senator for Abyss (Byss)
Senator for Arbra (Hoojib)
Senator for Bortras (Human)
Torrsk Oruo'rel - Senator for Bothuwai (Bothan)

Sorn Vre'lya - Senator for Kothlis (Bothan)
Representative for Moonus Mandel (Veknoid)
Alli Tiawarrh - Representative for Krant and Hanoon (Krantian)
Representative for Di'tai'ni (Tai'ni)

Jaanseerra Arretaura - Senator for Carshoulis Prime (Cizerack)

Taataani Meorrrei - Senator for Keppaa Brens (Cizerack)

Senator for Chad (Chadra-Fan)
Senator for Chelloa (Bith, Duros, Gran, Human, Ithorian, or Rodian)
Senator for Clak'dor (Bith)
Senator for Contruum (Human)
Tukphen - Senator for Dac (Mon Calamari)

Thada Adel - Senator for Dac (Quarren)
Maleen Tel'Var - Representative for Sanctuary (Caamasi)
Representative for Slayn and Korpil (Verpine)

Senator for Darkknell (Human)
Senator for Dornea (Dornean)
Senator for Dressel (Dresselian)
Senator for Elom (Elomin)
Senator for Elrood (Human)

Representative for Coyn (Coynite)
Representative for Kidron (Orfite)
Representative for Merisee (Meri, or Teltior)

Senator for Gand (Gand)
Kelvin Stark - Senator for the Gordian Reach (Human)

Leeadra Longstar - Senator for Presbalin (Human)
Representative for Arda (Human)
Representative for B'Trilla (B'Trillan)
Representative for Feldwes (B'Trillan, Human, or T'Sarki)
Representative for Kalishik (T'Sarki)
Representative for Krylon (Human)
Representative for Torque (Human)

Senator for H'Nemthe (H'Nemthe)
Elaine Alastor - Senator for Hapes (Human)

Delphnye Sarpin - Senator for Vergill (Human)

Kallachiturra - Senator for Kashyyyk (Wookiee)
Alexi Hesith - Senator for Lantillies (Human)
Senator for Malastare (Gran, or Dug)
Senator for Mirial (Mirialan)
Numax Meltstrong - Senator for Mustafar (Mustafarian)
Ulys Caed - Senator for Naboo (Human)

Representative for Oota Gunga (Gungan)

Eusphyra Blochii - Senator for Öetrago (Ithorian)
Senator for Omwat (Omwati)
Salem Ave - Senator for Onderon (Human)
Senator for Ord Radama (Human)
Senator for Orto (Ortolan)
Senator for Ossus (Gossam)
Senator for Quermia (Quermian)
Senator for Roche (Verpine)
Sekaj L'vehl - Senator for Sluis Van (Sluissi)

Representative for Praesitlyn (Sluissi)

Niev Minetii - Senator for Sullust (Sullustan)

Representative for Tuerto (Sullustan)
Representative for Bortras (Human)

Senator for Syned (Duros, Gotal, Human, Sluissi, or Sullustan)
Senator for Telos (Aqualish, Duros, Human, Ithorian, Rodian, Sullustan, Twi'lek, Quarren, or Zeltron)
Arkanon Astore - Senator for Thule (Arkanian)

Representative for Arda (Human)
Representative for Krylon (Human)

Rondoo - Senator for Tramanos (Celgian)
Senator for Troiken (Xexto)
Abre Vorasq - Senator for Umbara (Umbaran)
Senator for Utapau (Pau'an)
Senator for Vandelheim (Human, or Sullustan)
Senator for Vorzyd (Vorzydiak)
Senator for Woostri (Woostoid)

Senators:
(2) Arkanian, (2) Bothan, (1) Celagin, (2) Cizerack, (7) Human, (1) Gossam, (1) Ithorian, (1) Mon Calamari, (1) Mustafarian, (1) Quarren, (1) Sluissi, (1) Sullustan, (1) Umbaran, (1) Wookiee

Representatives:
(1) Caamasi, (1) Krantian

Alliance Ministers

Salem Ave - Minister of State
Torrsk Oruo'rel - Minister of Defense
Leeadra Longstar - Minister of Security
Ulys Caed - Minister of Justice
Niev Minetii - Minister of Industry
Jaanseerra Arretaura - Minister of Trade & Commerce
Tukphen - Minister of Supply
Bils Kir'nir - Minister of Science
Celeste Starborn - Speaker of the House

Members:
(1) Bith, (1) Bothan, (1) Cizerack, (4) Human, (1) Mon Calamari, (1) Sullustan

Alliance High Command

Admiral Tial Reshmar - First Fleet; Commander-in-Chief

Admiral Vernin Holt - First Fleet (Mobile)

Commodore Dorna Forlon - 113th Interdiction Group
Rear Admiral Anne Phoenix - 140th Rapid Response Group

Second Fleet (Mon Calamari)

Commander Kes Akienda - Jovan Station

Captain T'yeellaa Meorrrei - Cizerack Trade Fleet
Captain Cirrsseeto Quez - Novgorod
Captain Soto Terius - Destiny

Cizerack Trade Fleet (Carshoulis Prime)

Third Fleet (Onderon)

High Admiral Trance Farani - Hapan Royal Navy (Hapes)

Admiral Vansen Tyree - Fourth Fleet (Bothawui)

Rear Admiral Castus Annen - Task Force 42

Commodore Varon Farani - Hapan Commander; Arbitrator
Captain Dou'lesa Grov - Nemesis

Admiral Crotalus Viridis - Fifth Fleet (Sluis Van)
General William Forlon - Alliance Marine Corps
General Meiers Brecklin - Alliance Starfighter Corps
General Regulus Starborn - Alliance SpecForce

Director Grace Van-Derveld - Alliance Intelligence
Director Dasquian Belargic - Alliance Security

Members:
(2) Cizerack, (1) Falleen, (13) Human, (1) Mon Calamari, (1) Selonian, (1) Sluissi

Ambassadors & Envoys

Ambassador for Ando (Aqualish)
Alec Tallen - Ambassador for Mandalore (Human)
Ambassador for Triton (Tritonite)
Silas Faei - Ambassador for Zeltros (Zeltron)

Dasquian Belargic

Jan 16th, 2014, 11:21:03 AM

Salem Ave (Onderon) is the Minister of State, but might have a committee including representatives from the four big regions (Hapes, Carshoulis, Bothan, Mon Cal) to help determine foreign policy.

Volunteers are welcome!

Our idea is that Dasquian Belargic, who was prisoner-exchanged when the Treaty was signed, would be the inaugural Director.

Want to get this thread going? :D

Taataani Meorrrei

Jan 17th, 2014, 02:57:01 PM

Taataani could certainly serve on Salem's ministry committee if you'd like.

Also if someone wants to create an account for the senior Cizerack senator, please do. I think they might be well served to serve as minister of commerce if there's no other ideas on that.

I have an idea regarding Ando, if it's okay with folks. Want to have a thread where Taataani & Loki travel there in secret to broker friendly ties to the Alliance.

Dasquian Belargic

Jan 17th, 2014, 03:06:25 PM

That would make sense, since they're becoming such good chums and all

Btw if anyone wants to play either of the two Hapan senators let me know. I have no idea which planets they are from but I would rather not write them myself (..though I am happy to write an aide for one of them!)

Kiattaarra Feessaarro

Jan 17th, 2014, 04:48:50 PM

Small group of Senators making a state visit to the Pride ITT - http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?55294-The-Pride-Goeth-Before-All&goto=newpost

Since we have ships and stuff and are making more for you guys or something, I'm not exactly sure on the details.

Charley

Jan 17th, 2014, 05:20:16 PM

That's as good a reason as any. Keppaa Brens houses Royal Cana'darri Shipwrights, which are nationalized under the Pride Mother's control. It's a large shipyard and effectively the only one that is a public entity rather than a private one. They build the ships of the line of the trade navy, so production there is more or less an extension of state policy. Considering how starved the Alliance is for new starship production, having Alliance government members court her majesty would certainly be inevitable.

Rurrick Grov

Jan 17th, 2014, 08:29:47 PM

Since the Cizerack, Hapans, Bothans, and Mon Calamari / Quarren are the four big two-senator sectors, it might be cool if we can manage to get one of each into the pool of Ministers somehow: make sure the big people are involved in the Alliance in a big way.

Some other planets/races that might make interesting Senators/Ministers/etc -

Sullust is home to the SoroSuub Corporation, one of our major ship producers; maybe a good Minister of Industry. (mining, manufacture, etc)
Öetrago (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Oetrago) is potentially the Ithorian version of New Alderaan; an Ithorian might make an interesting Minister of Agriculture and/or the Environment.
Clak'dor is the Bith homeworld; they are super-smart, and might make a good Minister of Science.
Naboo is one of the few dominant Human worlds; might be good for Minister of Justice / Culture / Education / that sort of thing.
Lantillies (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lantillia) and Contruum (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Contruum) are both major Human worlds, very close to Imperial space, and both associated with shipping and shipbuilding.
Malastare (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Malastare) is inhabited by Gran and Dugs; the Gran worlds of Kinyen and Hok are in Imperial space, which might make things interesting: a Gran diplomat might push harder for trade relations/etc with the Empire than many of the other senators would.
Elom (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Elom_%28planet%29), Chad (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Chad), Vorzyd (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vorzyd_V), Gand (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gand_%28planet%29), Roche (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Roche_asteroid_field), Dressel (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dressel), Troiken (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Troiken), Quermia (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Quermia), and Lahsbane (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lahsbane) are all alien homeworlds inside Alliance territory, and might make for interesting flavour characters, members of subcommittees, etc.
The Gordian Reach is one of our biggest sectors. Arda (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Arda_system), Bronsoon (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bronsoon), Presbalin (http://Presbalin), and Torque (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Torque) are the main human worlds; it's also home to the B'trillans (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/B%27trillan). and has many mining, industrial, and agriworlds as well as free/pirate ports like Junction (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Feriae_Junction) and Korphir (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Korphir).

If memory serves... Charley and I schemed about him being Naboo Senator (Cicero), and Sarah is going to write the Bothan for Kothlis?

Kelvin Stark

Jan 17th, 2014, 10:36:45 PM

General Kelvin Stark at your service: proud to pledge the loyalty of the people of Torque and my 313th Legion to the noble Alliance cause. :mischief

Captain Untouchable

Jan 17th, 2014, 11:49:37 PM

The lists in Post #2 are as up to date as I can make them with the information I have.

I've added in a little tally at the bottom to give an idea of how the races are breaking down, and how ridiculously humans outnumber everyone else. We're actually sitting at 10 non-humans versus 6 humans in the Senate at the moment, plus we have two non-human representatives, so we're looking surprisingly good there!

In terms of Ministers, Torrsk Oruo'rel is now down as the Minister of Defense, while Leadra Longstar is the Minister of Security; their roles overlap a lot, but broadly speaking Defense will supervise the Navy, Starfighter Corps and SpecForce, while Security will supervise Alliance Intelligence and Alliance Security. Niev Minetii of Sullust and SoroSuub is down as Minister of Industry, which covers mining, engineering, construction, and so on; Tukphen from Mon Calamari is down as Minister of Supply, which covers food, medical supplies, and other essentials, and getting stuff to where it needs to go.

We have five of the original seven Advisory Council characters now in Minister roles, plus an Onderon/Hapes person and maybe a Cizerack for Trade/Commerce too: which makes sense in terms of politics and what not. So yay, go us! :dance

Nalai

Jan 17th, 2014, 11:55:51 PM

Do expect an Ambassador from Zeltros to join you all at some point.

No of course not myself. Don't be silly, I have far more lucrative personal things that must be seen to. Though I believe I have a son who would be quite fitting for the job. :mischief

Charley

Jan 18th, 2014, 12:02:19 AM

Having a Cizeri minister of commerce makes sense to me. I think that posting would go to Jaanseerra Arretaura since she's senior. Then again, Taataani is the oligarchy's candidate and would be more aligned with big business, so it's a toss-up there. Guess it depends on who selects the postings.

Jaan Furlow

Jan 18th, 2014, 01:19:45 AM

I suppose it depends on what the job actually is.

In terms of establishing an economy, communicating the fact that Planet A wants to buy what Planet B is producing, the senior Senator might be more qualified: if she's from the Pride Mothers' cadre, she might have a better top-down view of how the Cizerack economy works, whereas Taataani's knowledge of commerce comes from navigating inside it: she knows the exploits, but not necessarily the best way to set up a fair one. On the flipside, the Cizerack are naturally self-interested and isolationist: someone loyal to the Pride Mother might be inclined to skew commerce towards the Cluster, whereas Taataani might not feel so bound by that consideration.

On the flipside, in terms of seeking out trade situations not just from within the Alliance but in terms of negotiations with the Hutts, independent worlds, and maybe even the Empire, Taataani is probably better suited. Not only does she have experience of the Imperial economy, she's previously worked with the Alliance to help provide supplies and such things. The majority of the Ministers so far are familiar to the Alliance in their specific fields, so Taataani being appointed because she's a known quantity makes a fair bit of sense.

I'd almost suggest splitting it up between the two of them, Jaanseerra for the economy and Taataani for trade... but two Cizerack might be too racially/culturally biased to be appropriate?

Charley

Jan 18th, 2014, 01:47:26 AM

Nah, just one of them should get the nod. Makes it all the more sweeter when they incessantly (politely) bicker

Lilaena De'Ville

Jan 18th, 2014, 01:58:46 AM

Just a note: when we make up NPC senators we should make sure we add their names to a list so we can be consistent. And we shouldn't be afraid to NPC the rest of the senate since it's obviously not feasible to RP each and every senator and jr senator.

Captain Untouchable

Jan 18th, 2014, 02:00:58 AM

I'm pretty OCD when it comes to making lists, so I don't think that'll be a problem. ;)

Dasquian Belargic

Jan 18th, 2014, 04:33:49 AM

Reshmar

Jan 18th, 2014, 05:18:48 PM

Point me where you need me jace. Im around just have not had much to do here.

Dasquian Belargic

Jan 18th, 2014, 05:29:52 PM

okay, Elaine Alastor is going to be Senator for Hapes. our other Hapan rep (Delphnye Sarpin) would be the second Senator.

Charley

Jan 18th, 2014, 05:48:08 PM

Nah, just one of them should get the nod. Makes it all the more sweeter when they incessantly (politely) bicker

You have a preference on this Charley? I could go either way, since whoever gets in while be endlessly sniping at the other anyway.

If it's me choosing, I'd say Jaan should get the nod just because it gives the character more on her plate and more chance to assert herself and flesh out her character.

Thada Adel

Jan 19th, 2014, 02:29:04 PM

Thada could serve on Salem's committee, seeing as her other half is a minister in his own right.

Ulys Caed

Jan 19th, 2014, 02:58:36 PM

These appointments are...splendid I'm sure. There may be a question of their legal integrity that should be seen to. In order to dispel any notion as to their impropriety, of course.

Salem Ave

Jan 19th, 2014, 03:01:37 PM

Minister Caed... I don't have an improper bone in my body.

Lilaena De'Ville

Jan 19th, 2014, 03:04:45 PM

You simply improperly bone other bodies. ;)

Vansen Tyree

Jan 20th, 2014, 05:16:45 AM

Subcommittees!

For the Defense Subcommittee, Torrsk Oruo'rel would like at the very least to have -

The Minister of State, since foreign affairs and defense policy go hand in hand.
The Minister of Security, since we are both tasked with keeping the Alliance safe.
A representative for the Hapes Consortium, and their Royal Navy.
A representative for the Cizerack Pride, and their Trade Fleet.
A representative for the Mon Calamari / Quarren, to represent their sector and it's navies.

If possible, I'd like to have an odd number of people (Torrsk included): so if one, three, or five other people feel they should be on there, chime in! Perhaps Naboo because of the Minister of Justice; perhaps Sluis Van because of their shipyards; perhaps Sullust because of their traditional place on the Alliance Advisory Council (and SoroSuub); perhaps Torque for Senator Stark's military experience; etc.

For the Military Supply Subcommittee (making sure the military has ships/etc), Tukphen would like to have -

Thada Adel, because of the Free Dack Engineering Corps (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Free_Dac_Volunteers_Engineering_Corps) shipyards.
Taataani Meorrei, to represent the Cizerack Trade Fleet and Koensayr-Meorrei.
Niev Minetii, because of Sullustan industry and the SoroSuub Corporation.
Sekaj L'vehl, because of the major shipyards at Sluis Van.
A Hapan, representing the Hapan Royal navy.
A Bothan, representing Bothan industry, the SpyNet, etc.

With Thada and Taataani on there, it might be nice to have the junior Hapan and Bothan senators, a) to avoid overworking the senior senators, who are both Ministers; and b) to emphasise that this is a "less glamorous" committee. If we plan on doing research/development for new ships and new classes, the Senator for Clak'dor / Minister of Science would probably have a hand in this sort of thing. Also, Human Senator from Lantillies might be a good addition down the road, too.

For the Civil Supply Subcommittee (food/agriculture, health, labour, etc), I could use volunteers. Naboo, Bothan Jr, and Sullust would probably be on there. It might make sense to have Cizerack Sr because of the commerce/trade element of this. Senators / Representatives for worlds with large populations of immigrants / refugees might also be good people here: Sanctuary, Krant, Öetrago, New Alderaan, and Presbalin spring to mind. If we get a Senator for Malastare, they would almost certainly be in on this as well.

If any of the other Ministers want to start getting a handle on who is on their subcommittees too, I will start adding them to the lists! I'm personally planning a few threads that subcommittees will affect: some actual subcommitee meetings, some informal meetings with specific members of specific subcommittees, etc.

Torrsk Oruo'rel

Jan 20th, 2014, 05:25:54 AM

Bonus thought -

As part of integration / etc, the Hapan Royal Navy and the Cizerack Trade Fleet probably need to be factored into the Alliance Navy's hierarchy somewhere. However, you are both extremely isolationist and are not necessarily fond of your important people leaving the homeworld.

Would the Hapans and Cizerack have their military leaders participate in planning/etc via hologram, Jedi Council style? Would they trust one or other of their Senators to represent their military in the decision making process? Or would they appoint specific envoys/liaisons for that - perhaps the Pride Mother's primary husband (I forget the term); perhaps Aaron Belargic or Varon Farani?

Just curious, so I know who Torrsk and Vansen need to start establishing dynamics with, etc. :)

Stela'shlit'nuruodo

Jan 20th, 2014, 11:08:46 AM

On behalf of the Chiss Ascendancy I would like to request a meeting with the senate to discuss future relations with the Alliance. Out two peoples need not be enemies.

Dasquian Belargic

Jan 20th, 2014, 11:14:43 AM

Salem Ave

Jan 20th, 2014, 11:15:07 AM

On behalf of the Chiss Ascendancy I would like to request a meeting with the senate to discuss future relations with the Alliance. Out two peoples need not be enemies.

An excellent idea.

Lilaena De'Ville

Jan 20th, 2014, 11:17:07 AM

What committees are the subcommittees under? Shouldn't they just be called committees?

Captain Untouchable

Jan 20th, 2014, 12:20:48 PM

It depends on how you view it.

One could argue that the Cabinet of Ministers (or whatever we call it) is a committee. They are the ones who come up with a proposal for Alliance policy, which they then present to the Senate for ratification and debate. Presumably, when the Minister of Supply goes off to discuss military supply issues with his advisors/etc, he then brings that decision back to the larger Cabinet/committee for their review - the military supply subcommittee wouldn't necessarily propose straight to the Senate.

Alternatively, there might actually be committees that they are sub- to. Military Supply and Civil Supply are clearly both under the Minister of Supply; perhaps he has a Supply Committee also. Perhaps the Defense Subcommittee is one of several subcommittees that fall under a War Council / Military Oversight Committee / etc that looks at the military, Intel/Security, and other issues. Presumably, the "Joint Chiefs" factor in somewhere as well.

Or, we could just be constructive and focus on who is part of the committees for now, and nitpick about the names later. ;)

Captain Untouchable

Jan 20th, 2014, 12:26:33 PM

Subcommittees!

For the Defense Subcommittee, Torrsk Oruo'rel would like at the very least to have -

A representative for the Hapes Consortium, and their Royal Navy.

For the Military Supply Subcommittee (making sure the military has ships/etc), Tukphen would like to have -

A Hapan, representing the Hapan Royal navy.

was one of these roles what we discussed Aaron doing/being? I forget what his exact position was going to be.

For the Defense option, I think it needs to be a Senator. The Hapans are part of that group because a) they're one of the largest member-powers in the Alliance, and b) they have their own military. The person on that Council needs to be someone who can not only speak on behalf of the Navy, but also on behalf of the government.

Similarly, Military Supply is less about the actual physical ships, and more about things like building new ships. The person there needs to be in a position to authorise things like letting Alliance R&D get their hands on the specifications for stuff, to approve funding for building X ships to give to the Y Sector, etc. That seems like the sort of thing that the Hapans wouldn't let a man, let alone Aaron Belargic, do.

However, this -

Would the Hapans and Cizerack have their military leaders participate in planning/etc via hologram, Jedi Council style? Would they trust one or other of their Senators to represent their military in the decision making process? Or would they appoint specific envoys/liaisons for that - perhaps the Pride Mother's primary husband (I forget the term); perhaps Aaron Belargic or Varon Farani?

- is the sort of thing that Aaron might be involved in. Aaron might be the... Hapan liaison to the "Joint Chiefs", as opposed to being their representative on government / spending committees. I think we talked about him working as part of Vansen's military hierarchy, rather than within government... though I imagine the Minister of Defense would interact with him a lot, if only to avoid having to talk to Senators about military stuff. :uhoh

Royston Basillie

Jan 20th, 2014, 12:45:33 PM

Kyzer could act as a junior senator for Onderon. Previously we tossed around the idea of him being the primary senator, as the cousin of the Queen. He operates within a unique position as he is on very good terms with the Beast Rider community and often represents them in Iziz. He could function as an assistant to Salem, potentially filling in for him if his position as Minister of State prevents him from fulfilling both duties. Or whatever. Just thought I'd throw it out there. No skin off my Drexl.

Rurrick Grov

Jan 20th, 2014, 12:56:57 PM

Onderon only gets one Senator (just one system, not a sector), which presumably needs to be Salem because of him being the Minister of State and what not... but I imagine his work (and his "other" activities) takes him away a fair bit, so having someone who can be his proxy as needed seems smart.

Would Kyzer make sense as a sort of... Representative for the Beast Riders, the way Jar Jar was Representative for the Gungans? If Jar Jar can bring motions before the Senate on behalf of Naboo, that seems like a pretty solid precedent for a Senate proxy?

Royston Basillie

Jan 20th, 2014, 01:05:16 PM

He could definitely function in that capacity.

Taataani Meorrrei

Jan 20th, 2014, 09:33:35 PM

Would the Hapans and Cizerack have their military leaders participate in planning/etc via hologram, Jedi Council style? Would they trust one or other of their Senators to represent their military in the decision making process? Or would they appoint specific envoys/liaisons for that - perhaps the Pride Mother's primary husband (I forget the term); perhaps Aaron Belargic or Varon Farani?

That sort of thing would be an appointment the Pride Mother would decree, rather than a Senator since the Trade Navy runs directly under her authority. Her Emissary could perform that task, or she could appoint an Admiral.

Captain Untouchable

Jan 22nd, 2014, 06:19:29 AM

On behalf of the Chiss Ascendancy I would like to request a meeting with the senate to discuss future relations with the Alliance. Out two peoples need not be enemies.

Thought that popped into my head earlier: ordinarily, when you see the EU or RP groups forge an alliance between the Chiss and someone else (Empire or otherwise), it's because the Empire/Alliance/what-have-you needs help, and the Chiss swoop in like some sort of heroic cavalry. It certainly fits with the arrogance of the Chiss, but it usually means that most of the action happens with Chiss coming into familiar space, without so much exploration of the more unfamiliar/interesting Ascendancy regions.

What if we flipped it on it's head, and rather than the Empire or Alliance approaching the Chiss for help... it's the Chiss that need back-up? A fair chunk of that region of the galaxy is riddled with Killiks, who abandoned Alderaan/Alsakan/etc and moved out there. I never read much of the Swarm War stuff in EU, but the Killik played a big part in the Alderaan levels in SWTOR, and they were pretty frikkin' cool, particularly with the mind control shenanigans that the Imperial Agent encounters.

What if the Chiss have done something to antagonise the Killiks, and have broken their usual isolationism because they badly need help? That gives us not just a potential ally, but also a potential enemy: one who will probably be pissed as hell at the Empire for destroying their ancestral homeworld (Alderaan).

Just a thought, anyhow - "lets be friends, and can you help me with my bug problem?" might make for some bonus plot opportunities.

Stela'shlit'nuruodo

Jan 22nd, 2014, 10:07:13 AM

The Chiss have more than just Bug problems. With the Drackmarians, Ssi' ruuk, Kilik, and Vagaari were constantly fighting someone. And the Infighting is a constant. there is a reason we all seem pissed off when we meet others.

Dasquian Belargic

Jan 23rd, 2014, 01:05:26 PM

Does anyone object if I make a senator for Umbara?

Umbara seems to be in Alliance territory, according to the new atlas that Cap made

It's not far from Onderon ^_^;

Ceto Rübezahl

Jan 23rd, 2014, 01:25:56 PM

I object-

-ify woman. I am a horrible person.

:cry

Leeadra Longstar

Jan 23rd, 2014, 02:14:30 PM

Yes. Yes you are. :colbert

Captain Untouchable

Jan 23rd, 2014, 03:11:07 PM

Something else for your radar, Jenny - the planet Thule (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Thule) up in Q-5 lists Arkanians as one of it's immigrated species... as well as Ubese and Chiss, weirdly enough. It was the location of some dark side shenanigans back in the day, and it's right on the edge of the "Sith Worlds" - ie. Korriban, Dromund Kaas; the heartlands of the Sith Empire from KOTOR, SWTOR, etc.

Interacting with Arkanians from their homeworld might be tricky, but the ones on Thule might fit for that thing... :uhoh

Zereth Lancer

Jan 23rd, 2014, 03:13:51 PM

Thule also has a massive Sith Temple of old dominating it's capital city, and has kickass weather patterns (constant lightning storms). It's easily one of my favorite SW Planets.

Captain Untouchable

Jan 23rd, 2014, 04:00:22 PM

Question Mark?

Down at the bottom of the map (map thread (http://theholo.net/forum/showthread.php?55315-SW-Fans-Essential-Atlas)), there's a patch of gold sectors that look kinda like a question mark. The area probably needs a snazzier name, but it's kind of a big deal because those six sectors are absolutely rammed with alien species, and humans are very much the minority.

The Sullustans (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sullustan) and the Sluissi (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sluissi) are the most prominent and both have Senators already; as do the Bith (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bith) and Ithorians (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ithorian). However, there's still potentially H'nemthe (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/H'nemthe), Xamster (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Xamster), Tritonite (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tritonite), Ortolan (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ortolan), Houk (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Houk), Hoojib (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hoojib), and Celegian (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Celegian) Senators or Representatives, and possibly a Duros (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Duros) or Gran (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gran) and one or two Humans to represent the couple of non-alien worlds in the area.

Charley, Sarah, Dee, and I have tossed around the idea of turning the Question Mark into a little pro-alien political powerhouse: a tight-knit group of non-humans looking out for each other, and trying to make sure that the Alliance doesn't resort to space racism. We'll probably see the Sullustans and SoroSuub spreading out and being all industrious; we might see the Sluissi and Bith and some of the other more tech savvy races working together to invent cool stuff; there might be cultural exchanges, special events, and all sorts of good stuff.

Basically... if you're thinking about an alien Senator, check out these races and see if you want to come play in our sandbox. :uhoh

Zereth Lancer

Jan 23rd, 2014, 04:15:21 PM

I'll make a Celegian Senator. Floating brain reminds me of the Hanar from Mass Effect.

Captain Untouchable

Jan 23rd, 2014, 04:22:35 PM

That's what they reminded me of as well! :D

Also, both Sarah and I have decided to write our Ithorians like Elcor.

"Helpfully: prefacing statements with an emotion makes it easier to interact with species who are used to interpreting facial expressions."

:mischief

Rondoo

Jan 23rd, 2014, 04:35:37 PM

I wish only to float in the oceans of my people... to be called to a higher purpose requires the sacrifice of self for the good of all

Charley

Jan 24th, 2014, 10:43:53 AM

Not sure if anyone outside the USA (or inside for that matter) is familiar with MUNA (Model United Nations Assembly) but would senatorial folks be interested in having RP threads start that are basically open sessions of the senate, where the chair (Salem) would recognize a Senator to bring forth a bill that could be introduced, then debated, and then voted on? The sheer act of discussing pet projects and then dissecting them, arguing them, and attempting to reach compromise might give our characters a body of work to build on the positions they will take, and who their friends and enemies might be.

It might be a fun way to hit the ground running on the politics in an open venue, rather than just a few things here and there where back-channel deals are made.

Vansen Tyree

Jan 24th, 2014, 02:32:02 PM

Sorta the Star Wars equivalent of those scenes in Game of Thrones or what-not, where there's a queue of people lining up to bring their grievances and/or ideas before the Lord/King/etc, essentially?

I could see that working. It's worth bearing in mind that Salem is the Minister of State (ie. foreign affairs) though. It might make more sense if it's Celeste Starborn, the Speaker of the House who is the chair for that sort of thing: that's sorta what she's there for, and if it's an issue she's not qualified to comment on personally she can bounce it over to the appropriate Ministers.

Salem isn't the Emperor quite yet. ;)

Lilaena De'Ville

Jan 24th, 2014, 03:00:38 PM

Taataani Meorrrei

Jan 24th, 2014, 04:18:01 PM

I don't even remember DOING senate threads pre-reset...interesting!

And yeah sorry oops...Celeste Starborn...right ^_^;

Zereth Lancer

Jan 24th, 2014, 04:25:00 PM

I've never done any Senate related things so I might have to look up those threads. I wouldn't even know where to start looking so if anyone could point me in the right direction I would be very appreciative.

Lilaena De'Ville

Jan 24th, 2014, 04:51:48 PM

Search for Thareena, she was in all of them just about

Eusphyra Blochii

Jan 24th, 2014, 11:54:41 PM

Respectful pride: I look forward to representing the interests of my people. For though we may be different, I believe we will all work toward the comment better of our galaxy.

Sarcastically: Even if some of you are quite strange looking. :|

Taataani Meorrrei

Jan 25th, 2014, 12:47:07 AM

An jIthorrjian, ssplendjid. Let uss hope he doess not fjiljibussterr. jI sshall have to sstupjifjy mjysself on pai'leeha to esscape the doldrrum.

Dasquian Belargic

Jan 26th, 2014, 08:03:40 AM

Some additions/amendments:

Abre Vorasq - Senator for Umbara (Umbaran)
Arkanon Astore - Ambassador for Thule (Arkanian)
Elaine Alastor - Senator for Hapes (Human)
Delphnye Sarpin - Senator for Vergill (Human)

Captain Untouchable

Jan 26th, 2014, 08:48:20 AM

I would like to do something with the Jensaarai (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jensaarai). The short version is that they're lawful neutral Force-using Paladins who revere light side and dark side teachings equally. The Jedi tried to wipe them out during the Clone Wars out of oh shit Sith paranoia, so to some extent the Jensaarai feel they have been religiously persecuted... though in the EU they do eventually reconcile with and ally with the New Jedi Order. Not only are they Grey Jedi, they have a bit of a "knightly virtues" vibe to them; two things I would be very interested in writing about.

If it's okay with people, I'd like to introduce the Jensaarai leader (Saarai-kaar) as a sort of ambassador, since their homeworld is now inside Alliance space. Maybe we can court them as an "alternative" to the Jedi (since the Jedi want alone time right now)? Maybe Salem can use them to drive a wedge between the Alliance and the Jedi from the religious persecution angle? Maybe certain Force users will want to meet / study with / etc the Jensaarai because of their different philosophy?

Either way... I want a Grey Jedi with badass armour. :mischief

Edit:

Names added to the list, Jenny! :D

Taataani Meorrrei

Jan 26th, 2014, 10:51:27 AM

Wasn't there a thing about grey Jedi being a no-no before? Or was that from a bygone era when we had to worry about godmoding kids going hog wild? I'm not super comfortable with the concept just because it seems like it flies in the face of everything we know about the force, but I guess with Vaapad being an issue of canon and our writers not sucking, I'd be okay with the camel's nose under the tent.

Dasquian Belargic

Jan 26th, 2014, 10:54:02 AM

I think we spoke about this yesterday (?) but at least publicly, Salem is going to be very wary of a group that not only practices the Force but is comfortable using the Dark Side.

Taataani Meorrrei

Jan 26th, 2014, 11:04:13 AM

There's that, too. If we're uneasy about the Jedi themselves, these guys would be pretty unpalatable!

Captain Untouchable

Jan 26th, 2014, 11:19:47 AM

I'm not sure the grey aspect of it is necessarily a reason - in character - for the Alliance / Senate to have an issue with these people.

Most of the reason the Alliance is wary of the Jedi is because of corruption. The Empire told the galaxy that the Jedi Order became corrupt, hence wiping them out. We've seen General Dan corrupt not just s'Ilancy, but we'll also see him corrupt swathes of the Alliance military as well before all is said and done. It's easy for us as writers, and as Jedi, to look at that and say that the dark side is what did the corrupting... but the vast majority of Alliance people don't/shouldn't have enough of an understanding of the Force to get why that is a thing. They wouldn't "get" the premise that being in love with someone turns you evil; the Jedi are a not very well understood cult.

The Jensaarai on the other hand are cards on the table, hearts on the sleeve. They're Vulcans in a way: not devoid of emotion, not devoid of light and dark, but rather possessing both and keeping it under control. It's all about balance with them, about orderly structure, and that sort of thing. There might be fear and reluctance initially... but I don't think they would be feared any more than the Jedi, just the baseline wariness of the Force in general.

If anything, the Jedi have a far worse history of corruption than the Jensaarai do; and they're much more open, much less secretive. Much easier to trust.

Ceto Rübezahl

Jan 26th, 2014, 06:41:51 PM

Since no one seems particularly polarised on this one way or the other, I'll take that as a collective non-committal grunt and do it regardless.

Lilaena De'Ville

Jan 26th, 2014, 06:47:52 PM

Well, the Jedi don't want "alone time" or at least that isn't what was discussed before. And historically anyone who uses the dark side is a darksider, none of this grey stuff. It corrupts.

I think the Jensaarai are a big can of worms better left alone. :)

Ceto Rübezahl

Jan 26th, 2014, 06:55:01 PM

Well, aside from the dozens of people who were corrupted to the dark side and were not quite okay but not evil again, like Luke was; like Loklorien s'Ilancy will be; like Inyos Aamoran is; and so on. And except for people who use Vapaad, a lightsaber form that takes advantage of the dark side, like Mace Windu. Or like Jolee Bindo in KOTOR, who is explicitly identified as a "Grey Jedi". In fact, the Clone Wars explanation of what the whole "bring balance to the Force" prophecy was about suggests that keeping light and dark in balance was Anakin's destiny, which arguably was about being a Grey Jedi.

But yes, aside from all those exceptions, I suppose you're right. :|

Lilaena De'Ville

Jan 26th, 2014, 07:00:49 PM

I meant historically on SW-fans. Which a lot of our history predates any of that stuff being written. Which is why I had this weird situation of the last existing group of Mandalorians stranded on Onderon and then having the EU come along and decide there are entire planets of the guys all over the place. :lol

If you want to play the Jenassarai then go for it, but if you want the opinions of others maybe wait more than a few hours before assuming everyone has read it. Morally grey character are very interesting, but personally I have a hard time seeing how one can consistently use the Dark side yet not be a dark sider. LD thought she was a Jedi while she was murdering people as a darksider, but that didn't mean she was a grey Jedi, she was just confused. Vaapad dances with using your emotions to power explosive attacks, on the razor's edge of the Dark side without going over, as I understand it.

Emelie Shadowstar

Jan 26th, 2014, 07:12:42 PM

If you want to play the Jenassarai then go for it.
THIS.

I mean... it'll be interesting alone for the fact that this (these?) character(s) will see themselves as truly neutral, balancing the force and all while doing "good" things... while others make that argument that they are Darksiders but are hard pressed to actually find them doing "evil" things.

It'll also be interesting to yeah... write people who maybe struggle with not going "too" Darkside or something...not becoming entirely corrupted by it (or maybe they are and just can't see it? :o )

I dunno...makes for interesting complex character stuffz that I say go for it. I don't think any of us are worried about someone going "all powerful" so rock on. :|

Basically the way I feel about it - If you've got an idea that will show it'll work and want to write it then do it!

Ceto Rübezahl

Jan 26th, 2014, 07:32:00 PM

personally I have a hard time seeing how one can consistently use the Dark side yet not be a dark sider

I see this as a writing challenge. You seem to see it as something that cannot possibly be made to work; I say bollocks to that. That's quitter talk.

There are all sorts of interpretations about how the Force works. Honestly, I think it's a waste of potential that we're so adamantly focused on just one version. If you know anything about the Reginald and Desmond Nil'vak characters, you'll know that they come from a monastery on Dantooine that has a very different approach towards Force philosophy than the Jedi do. It's much more regimented and religious, rather than spiritual, and there are aspects of what Desmond was raised to believe that are quite jarring now he's being exposed to the Jedi perspective on the situation. That is a phenomenally interesting plot device; the Jedi who interact with him aren't just parroting beliefs back out of a text book, you're actually being challenged to justify why the Jedi believe the way that they do, and that's much more interesting to think about than "it just is". Similarly, there's Anastasia Xivelle, who looks at the Force purely as a scientific phenomenon: looks at the midichlorians, the way the brain works when it's interacting with the force, and wants to stamp a purely scientific label onto something that the Jedi insist is a purely spiritual thing.

It's a real shame that more people haven't taken the opportunity to interact with those characters, and haven't taken the opportunity to explore more angles on how the Force works. Maybe it is a simple, black and white matter of light and dark; maybe it isn't. This is science fiction though, not Kansas: personally I think we should be embracing the chance to use our noodles and write outside the box, try them out and see if they work, rather than shooting things down just because we have "a hard time seeing" how they will.

Do or do not works great for a Jedi; but sometimes when it comes to creativity, there is a try.

Taataani Meorrrei

Jan 26th, 2014, 07:47:16 PM

Vaapad is grey enough for me to have no worries. My only concern in the past over this has been godmoding idiots but thats a concern from years ago and we're way better than that and we know it.

Really, as long as it's not the Yuuzhan Vong I'm probably more than okay with folks going wild with the SW universe. Hell, y'all could probably even make that crap into something interesting. Don't though. Don't you dare.

Emelie Shadowstar

Jan 26th, 2014, 07:51:06 PM

Awwww c'mon Charley. You know you want the Vong to show up next time we hit a slow patch and need some inspiration ;)

Taataani Meorrrei

Jan 26th, 2014, 07:53:05 PM

I've hated those wannabe zerg since they dropped a moon on Chewie :mad

Ceto Rübezahl

Jan 26th, 2014, 07:58:27 PM

dropped a moon on Chewie

I really wanna start using this as a poop euphemism.

Ilias Nytrau

Jan 26th, 2014, 08:04:18 PM

I said this earlier today in a discussion, though y'all weren't there, that I'd take the Borg over the Vong, any day. Wrong property, but... know what I mean? Please don't make me have to gouge my eyes out. Please. I like my eyes.

Now, I'm about as cool with the Force being black-and-white as I am with, well... damn it. How can something so ethereal and fluid be so distinctly either 'this' or 'that', to the exclusion of all else? It can't. If it's in everything, connects everything, and binds everything together, I don't think it's so damn picky. This 'light side' and 'dark side' deal is purely philosophical. It's religion. It's God and Satan. I can jive with grey - that's life as it stands without the intervention of ideals, rules, codes of conduct.. I want to embrace it... and there is more than fifty shades of it.

That's exciting, folks. Could dine on that for eons.

Sekaj L'vehl

Jan 26th, 2014, 08:11:39 PM

This is science fiction though, not Kansas: personally I think we should be embracing the chance to use our noodles and write outside the box, try them out and see if they work, rather than shooting things down just because we have "a hard time seeing" how they will.

Do or do not works great for a Jedi; but sometimes when it comes to creativity, there is a try.

I just took the time to read through this thread to catch up on what's going on, and I have to say that I completely agree with Jace. We *should* be looking outside the proverbial box...after all, isn't that why all of us started writing and RPing to begin with? Because we were already looking outside the damn box because it wasn't big enough for our imaginations?

Seriously, we are all adults and this is a community where we all embrace the different and sometimes strap a saddle on the absurd and take it out for a ride. We try it and it works, great! We try it and it doesn't work, well, at least we tried it and now we know.

We're in the right place to try an experiment like this, and I, for one, am totally in.

*fetches a saddle*

Kallachiturra

Jan 26th, 2014, 09:04:11 PM

Started a senate thread for anyone who's interested http://theholo.net/forum/showthread.php?55329-Humanitarian-Aid-(Senate)&p=1022953#post1022953

Niev Minetii

Jan 26th, 2014, 10:04:22 PM

Went ahead and BS'ed a "bill" to argue for or against. I assume the Senator from Kashyyk will have favorable things to say about this. :)

Lilaena De'Ville

Jan 26th, 2014, 10:23:22 PM

PERHAPS!

:p

Dasquian Belargic

Jan 27th, 2014, 12:45:38 AM

OOC I'm of the opinion that you can do what you like and hooray for that.

IC, my characters subjective opinions on the matter are gonna vary: but I can tell you that selling Force Users to a senate who've just witnessed a big betrayal by Force users (Dan) will not be something that Salem does at this stage. It just doesn't make sense to him. In fact he'd be sending some of Alliance Security (the cloak-killers as I keep wanting to call them) along to investigate what these guys are up to and make sure they don't do something stupid/dangerous.

Torrsk Oruo'rel

Feb 1st, 2014, 10:27:31 AM

Before I chime in with the open thread, I wanted to try and get a handle on some "tax issues", so that I know what I'm waffling on about. It sounds boring, but it actually opens up the opportunity for some cool shenanigans, and could make some big differences to the way that certain Senators/Representatives interact with each other.

I'm going to use Bothawui and Naboo in most of these examples, but it's a situation that applies across the board.

Option 1: Every Person is Taxed the Same

If I'm understanding my American terminology correctly, I believe this would be called a "federal tax": a tax charged by the central government to absolutely everyone. Presumably, it would be Income Tax, National Insurance Tax; that sort of thing. All of that money goes into the Alliance treasury, and is then spent on whatever it needs to be spent on.

That sounds nice and fair and benevolent; but there are wrinkles. Looking at Bothan Space as an example, there's about 150 inhabited planets there, crammed into a tiny geographical area. They would thus be responsible for a very large chunk of the Alliance's tax revenue; however, they would see very little benefit from it. Bothan Space is already self-sufficient in terms of food and industry. They already have their own military; and, because Bothan Space is relatively small, most of the large contribution they would be making to the defense budget would get spent on protecting other people. If this was the case, we might see Bothan politicians and Bothan citizens growing disgruntled with having to pay so much to prop up other people, and that might cause some desire for independence, rival political parties, etc.

Option 2: Every Government is Taxed, Based on Population

This sounds like almost the same thing, but it's ever so subtly different. Pulling numbers out of my ass, lets say the Bothan Space's 150 worlds translates into about 15 billion people, and that the Alliance government wants 100 credits a year for each of them: that's 1.5 trillion credits from Bothan Space, annually.

If that 100 credits comes direct from the pockets of citizens, that's Option 1. However, Option 2 is that the Alliance approaches the Bothan Council for that money instead. The Bothan Council might choose to source only 50 credits per citizen in income tax, and relies on taxing corporations, industry, trade, etc for the rest. That's a pretty clever work-around in terms of shrewd politics. Citizens will be paying less directly, so they will be happier. Corporations may feel the need to nudge up their prices, but those prices won't be paid exclusively by Bothan citizens: they'll be paid by people on other worlds who are buying in Bothan imports. Bothawui's proximity to Hutt Space also means they could milk some of that tax revenue from trade to Nar Shaddaa and beyond.

Also, tax reasons can cause other things to happen. If the Bothan Sector is able to charge smaller amounts of income tax, the Krantians and the Veknoids are probably going to be pretty happy about being in that lower tax bracket: something to offset the fact that they don't have an independent Senate vote. It might also mean that being part of a larger reason is a politically shrewd move; a densely populated area like the yellow "question mark" on the map near Sullust and Sluis Van might wonder if going all-in as a super-sector - some Senators "downgrading" to Representatives in order to secure a lower tax rate - might be a good plan: especially when the SoroSuub Corporation (which "owns" the Sullustan Council) can offset big chunks of that by selling ships to the Alliance military.

On top of that, it also makes a bit of a difference for where people choose to live. Naboo is spacious and green, but it might be in a higher tax bracket than Kothlis in the Bothan Sector. That might mean that the rich start gravitating towards places like Naboo (because they can afford it), and suddenly Naboo comes a financial powerhouse because it's where all the super-wealthy (who are presumably paying a higher rate of tax anyway) are living.

Option 3: Not All Planets Are Taxed the Same

The bill going through in the Senate thread at the moment (as I understand it) proposes charging new members of the Alliance a higher rate of tax. Whether or not I think that's a good idea is something I'll address in character later... but either way, it sets up the premise for certain planets / regions to be charged different levels of tax.

Rather than charging the Bothan Sector 150x as much as you charge Naboo (to account for the 150 planets), the Alliance might decide to offset the "we don't see much return on our defense budget contributions" type concerns by charging Bothawui only 75x, or 50x. If you're only charging Bothawui for fifty planets, then the 1.5 trillion from earlier suddenly becomes only 500 billion. Even taking that directly out of the pockets of your citizens, we're down to 33.33333 credits per person per year, versus 100 credits for Naboo... the numbers are irrelevant, but you get the idea.

If the Bothans are still able to shave some of that tax revenue from industry, that makes Bothan space an even more attractive place for people to live. That's a double-edged sword of course, because the more you shave from industry the less attractive it is to them, the fewer jobs you have, and the harder it is for you to reap income tax from people without an income. On the flipside, if planets like Sullust get really badly stung by the tax brackets (they're not in the "controls an entire sector" category), the Bothan Sector / Carshoulis Cluster / et al might still be able to manage tax breaks.

Another thing Option 3 allows is the idea of setting up a refugee world as a tax break. If you have a planet like Sanctuary (in Mon Calamari Space) where you have a refugee population whose only employment is farming to feed themselves, you suddenly have a chunk of population that you can't be taxed for. It's shady, but it might lead to some interesting opportunities with the Hapan and Carshoulis Clusters sucking it up and establishing a refugee worlds / districts / etc in order to benefit from the tax offset.

Option 4: Some Medley of the Above, or Something Else Entirely

I'm only intimately familiar with British tax; I don't know if there's some funky shenanigans in the US that might be cool. There's the federal tax vs state tax issue to consider. There's healthcare: is it offered at a federal level (NHS, Obamacare), does it vary from state/planet to state/planet? Is there anything that at state level or federal level the Alliance might tax less than the Empire, the way that America has a lower rate of tax on gasoline than Europe? Heck, is said thing fuel, what with the whole "everything is further apart in the Alliance because we're mostly in the Outer Rim" angle?

Most of that kind of stuff is debate-in-thread sorta stuff, probably... but for me personally, it would be a HUGE help - particularly for the current open thread - to have at least a basic understanding of what is what. I can't really contribute as any of my Senators until I understand what their opinions would be, etc. :uhoh

Or is this a "make up whatever the hell you want and everyone else will just run with it" situation?

Lilaena De'Ville

Feb 1st, 2014, 12:09:24 PM

It's pretty much make it up and don't be too specific so we don't have someone with an accounting degree going "Oh but it wouldn't work like that" while they shove their glasses up their nose and stare at the numbers.

I mean, if you WANT to sort out how taxation works in the alliance you can, but it doesn't make for compelling fiction in an actual RP. Charley was pretty specific with his bill he wrote up, which in the past (the deep dark past) we sort of assumed the senators had the bill in front of them and they talked about it rather than giving bullet points, which gives you enough wiggle room in an RP to not worry about all the details of how this fictional government of hundreds of planets (with hundreds of cities on them and thousands of species) really REALLY works.

Also I had Kalla mention in the first post that this is voting to continue aid, so I'm thinking we're trying to transition from wartime aid to peacetime aid. Wherever the money came from before we're now sorting out where it comes from now. You can even have a character say "We were only donating 0.5% to this before, such an increase is outrageous!" or something, because we're making it up and that makes things fun. Within reason of course, using common sense. Maybe the 'new' members should pay MORE into the fund than old Rebellion members who've been footing the bill for the entire war and now these other planets are bandwagon jumpers into our hard won freedom from the Empire. That sort of thing.

Charley

Feb 1st, 2014, 12:54:50 PM

I'd consider a two-tier tax system with a little of option 1 and a little of option 2. Like, you'd have a small stipend paid per capita, but you'd also have a portion that is attributed to your planetary / sector state or municipality. That way you hedge against any major exploits like the ones you mentioned.

Rurrick Grov

Feb 1st, 2014, 12:56:54 PM

Basically, the reason I'm asking is thus.

If it's Option 1 (or there abouts), Bothawui is in a pretty shitty, disgruntled position; if it's Option 2 or 3, Bothawui is in a smug and comfortable situation. Option 1 means that the Bothans are going to be fronting a big chunk of this cash, and will have a "that's easy for you to say, you won't be paying for it" attitude. If it's Option 2 or 3, they'll be much more receptive to what is going on, or will at least be open to the idea of considering aid on it's merits, rather than the ginormous downside for their economy.

That's not some accounting degree level stuff: that's a pretty fundamental premise, and it represents a 180 degree difference on what Bothan politics "should" be. All I'm asking for is a little consensus on the basics of how we're doing it... otherwise I can't participate in that thread pretty much at all, because I have no way of determining what my characters' opinions would be.

Charley

Feb 1st, 2014, 12:58:11 PM

Yeah we don't have to work the true banalities of a tax code here, just the basics.

I think that ought to get us about where we need to be to argue it from a big picture perspective

Dasquian Belargic

Feb 1st, 2014, 12:59:46 PM

I'm happy to go with whatever people think will work best (..mostly because I don't want to think about taxes outside of work ^_^;) Ideally something that will provide the opportunity for the most interesting stories.

Rurrick Grov

Feb 1st, 2014, 01:07:20 PM

If there's a general consensus of "don't particularly give a shit", then I'll just pick something and run with it. (Start with Option 1, the simplest/shittiest option, and then debate it in character?)

Just feels like a bit of a jerk move to make decisions that affect other people without there having been a proper discourse first. :\

Sanis Prent

Feb 1st, 2014, 01:17:11 PM

Well nobody else seems to mind, and I think its a fair point to iron out the basics like you were suggesting. That's why I mentioned a bit of option A and a bit of option B. If nobody else has any overriding objections to that, I think we've just created a tax system in record-breaking time!

Dasquian Belargic

Feb 1st, 2014, 01:22:08 PM

I'm certainly not suggesting that people don't discuss it, if they want to. There might be other people who have an opinion that they want to weigh in with. I just personally I'm happy to go with the majority on this one since it's not a major deal-breaking topic for me :)

Lilaena De'Ville

Feb 1st, 2014, 02:52:38 PM

Sounds good to me, just go with that.

edit: What exactly can a representative do or not do? Since Alli isn't a senator at all apparently.

Vittore Montegue

Feb 1st, 2014, 05:27:50 PM

Alli represents one planet of Krantians out of 150 Bothan-dominated planets all packed into one Sector. If you think that she should be a Senator for some reason, then that's certainly something that can be discussed: but my understanding was/is that she was always supposed to be like Jar Jar Binks, not a stand-alone Senator in her own right. If that isn't supposed to be the case, then Alliance politics just got delightfully complicated.

As for what Representatives can do: the only thing they can't do is vote to pass a particular motion. They can still be members of committees and subcommittees as appropriate, and contribute to discussions / creating legislature / etc. I also imagine that Alli would have the power to veto or at least "challenge" the votes of the Bothan Senators if she feels their vote is harmful / detrimental to the Krantian people. If she's able to establish a good working relationship with Torrsk Oruo'rel, she might even be in a position to "fill in" if he is away from the Senate because of his Minister of Defense responsibilities (or if he just can't be bothered because it's something that doesn't involve guns).

Basically... the Bothan Sector is only allowed two votes, so that one Sector's interests/opinions aren't allowed to unduly influence voting. Typically those two votes would come from the Bothan Senators... but as long as two votes actually come from any two people in the Bothan box, I don't think Senate regulations are going to mind too much.

Sasseeri Reeouurra

Feb 1st, 2014, 06:02:36 PM

Ok, that's what I was wondering, thanks. I never intended her to be a full senator.

Vittore Montegue

Feb 1st, 2014, 06:08:01 PM

Good! Was worried you felt cheated out of a Senator on a technicality or something. :uhoh

Though, if you're in the market...

*shifty trenchcoat full of watches*

:uhoh

Lilaena De'Ville

Feb 1st, 2014, 06:18:20 PM

Yeah we had what we called jr senators before, which were like... Understudies for the regular senators I guess.

Vittore Montegue

Feb 1st, 2014, 06:23:12 PM

Ah, I see. I thought that was for when there were two Senators to show which had seniority (like the US Senate), rather than a separate sub-class of Senator.

I guess Representative = Jr Senator then, more or less?

Sasseeri Reeouurra

Feb 1st, 2014, 06:25:46 PM

That's probably the accurate way of using it, yes. :lol And yeah, calling them representatives makes more sense. I just wanted it clarified a little as to what a reps role actually is to make sure I do it right. :)

Silas Faei

Feb 3rd, 2014, 09:41:36 PM

One Ambassador from Zeltros reporting for duty. :uhoh

Park Kraken

Feb 4th, 2014, 10:18:18 AM

Reshmar

Feb 4th, 2014, 11:03:18 AM

I could attach you to my command group. Anne could be over sector security forces. With us now being spread out so thin and with over 100 sectors, some of which are not taking to kindly to being on our side of the boarder, She would have to review and assess forces in systems both loyal and not. Having someone from fleet out figuring out who has what and where it is would be a good thing. I am working on a State of the Fleet post but there is alot of information I am crunching so it will be a while before it is done. Fleet will be changing dramaticlly soon. With the cold war settling in, most of the resoures we have will be used on the boarder as a deturant. The day to day work of the fleet will be left to a few large ships relying mainly on fighters to do the work and smaller faster patrol vesels. Just think modern day carrier group. I would imagine some of the work would be covert since not everyone is playing nice but most is fairly stright forward. So Head/Chief/Commander of ADF Resource Assessment sounds like a good title.

Just some info, Mustafar and Dac shipyards will be doing decommissioning/scrapping/recomissioning. All other yards are being geared up for new production of exsisting and future designs only. Your office could remain at Mustafar if you like since most of the work there will be retro/refitting or move to the Dac system and Fleet HQ. Up tp you.

Amaros Koine

Feb 4th, 2014, 01:02:02 PM

I'd love to move my Alliance Admiral into an administrative position for the Alliance Government while remaining a part of the military. I was thinking maybe a Inspector of some sort that would check on system and sector forces and defenses and make recommendations to Alliance High Command on what is needed, what to keep, what can be discarded/sold off, etc.

Few thoughts on this -

1. When we switched from Rebellion to Alliance, it was decided people needed to be either military or government, not both. Torrsk Oruo'rel and Tukphen used to be the heads of SpecForce and Support Services respectively; they had to give up all their military roleplay opportunities to exclusively be Senators. The main, and reasonable argument there was that while wearing multiple hats was perfectly okay for a rebellion, it's a little questionable for an interstellar government. That sets a precedent for keeping our chocolate and our peanut butter separate (no matter how appealing the combination may seem), and I'd be a little miffed if we blur that too much.

2. The system/sector forces and the Alliance Navy are, at the moment, separate. The Cizerack Trade Fleet, Hapan Royal Navy, Bothan Defense Fleet, Naboo Security Forces, and all the other planet/sector specific militaries are their own thing. They all sit under the Minister of Defense's umbrella, and they all cooperate with the Alliance Navy... but all their ships and hardware are owned by the respective governments, not by Alliance High Command. Someone from the Alliance Navy could certainly "advise" on whether ships need to be scrapped or not, but the final decision in those instances is not theirs to make.

3. If we're talking about ships that legitimately are in the Alliance Navy, it's worth bearing in mind that the Senate plays a big part in these kinds of decisions in the real world. Governments don't give their military X billion dollars to buy whatever they want: the Senate signs off on what that money is going to be spent on, even including approving specific spending on a ship-by-ship basis. Torrsk Oruo'rel and Tukphen are now the Minister of Defense and the Minister of Supply; if any new ships are built their signature is on the paperwork... it would probably make sense if they're involved in the decommissioning process too, so that the Senate can have some sort of assurance that ships aren't being unnecessarily scrapped just to have an excuse to pay for new ones. Whether that means "resource assessment" reports into the Military Supply Committee as well/instead... either way, it would be nice to make sure they aren't cut out of the loop on this.

4. Logical an idea as selling off / scrapping ships might be, it doesn't seem like it's an idea that has that much longevity. You'll go to a sector, make your inspection... and then once it's done, it's done. Is scrapping ships specifically what you want to do, or is it just an idea you threw out because you know it needs doing? Maybe there's an alternative that would set you up with some better opportunities in the long run, rather than being such a short-term gig.

Reshmar

Feb 4th, 2014, 04:07:39 PM

While governments like Hapes and The Cizerack maintain ownership of their vessels they too fall under the Alliance Defense Force. with over a hundred governments now to defend, and all of who would seek equal treatment under the Alliance Charter, why should these larger governments keep their fleets? I am not saying they give us their fleets just each government now under the Alliance charter is equally responsible for the defense of the other hundred or so not as fortunate to have its own fleet. And from a Fleet command stand point one of the goals would be to weaken any fleet maintained by a sole government not allowing too much power in one place. The Hapens, Bothans, and Cizerack may not be happy with thinning their fleets but it should have been mandated they do so under the new Charter. Any and all problems they would have and I am sure they have them is a problem for the senate not the military. It is not up to them to protect themselves any longer it is the Alliance Defense Force's job now. We can not let group A keep 200 ships while group B has 1. There are smaller systems just as important to the Alliance as any of the systems or even sectors who maintain standing fleets. Should the Calamari pull all of their ships back to the Dac system? But as far as separate groups being their own thing that will not work. World B will get pissed off because they are not being given equal protection as group A

As for scrapping ships, The rebellion has some junk out there, and we have already started refitting ships like Dreadnaughts at Minntooine, and Nebulon B's at Mustafar. I do not see us putting anything up for sale when we can use everything we have. slap some turbolasers on a gallofree and its a patrol corvette.

As far as being either Military or Civilian, the role I was thinking of would be solely military, but even military answer to civilians. Part of Admiral Phoenix's post could be representing the Alliance Defense Forces in Committees where resources and military expenditures are concerned. Many military officers answer on capital hill for the military's spending not just the head of the armed forces. Sure Reshmar will be at the forefront of dealing with the Senate but he needs others to deal with them as well. It would take her out of main line combat if there is any though. her job would be much to important for her to be out chasing down pirates or suppressing a local uprising.

Vittore Montegue

Feb 4th, 2014, 05:58:42 PM

Park Kraken

Feb 4th, 2014, 09:24:59 PM

Okay, scrapping that idea (pun totally intended :mischief ). I hadn't yet read the "Pirates" thread before commenting on this thread, but perhaps Anne could move up to command the Sixth if there is no one to fill that current position?

Atton Kira

Feb 4th, 2014, 10:06:38 PM

There isn't a Sixth at the moment. Before the Treaty, that was the designation for Support Services' logistics fleet. Post-Treaty we're back down to five: Second through Fifth are the Defense Fleets that correspond with the four zones on the Essential Atlas (http://sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?55315-SW-Fans-Essential-Atlas) map doohicky; First is all the leftovers - assault groups, interdictor squadrons, logistics task forces, etc.

Reshmar is commanding First, General Dan is commanding Second (but not for long), and Vansen Tyree is commanding Fourth. I'm planning to introduce a Sluissi Admiral for Fifth to umbrella over the Sluis Van / Sullust / Endurance-class stuff: we don't have nearly enough non-humans in leadership positions, and that project needs a military Sluissi to complete the triumvirate with the Sluissi Senator and the Sullust/SoroSuub Senator. Third Fleet (Onderon, Hapes, Kashyyyk, Hutt border, and the border near Zeltros and Manaan) is totally vacant though, and fairly straight forward; we'll need someone to replace General Dan for Second Fleet (Cizerack, Mon Calamari, Tion Cluster, ex-Imperials in the Gordian Reach) once he's done attacking the Jedi; there's the option of being a "go anywhere in the Alliance" response group/force as part of First Fleet; and if you're wanting to stay in proximity to Mustafar for pirating opportunities/etc, I'm sure we could work something out between us for Fifth Fleet easily enough. :)

Park Kraken

Feb 4th, 2014, 10:16:06 PM

The RRTF Option for the 1st Fleet is probably the most desirable position for Anne if command of the 5th isn't available.

Reshmar

Feb 4th, 2014, 10:48:26 PM

with over a hundred governments now to defend, and all of who would seek equal treatment under the Alliance Charter, why should these larger governments keep their fleets?

Short answer - because that's how the Galactic Republic did it, and that's what we're supposed to be trying to "restore".

A homogenised space navy is the way that the Empire does things, and it's kind of representative of Imperialism in general. All the ships look pretty much the same, and they're all white: just like the vast majority of the officers who operate them. The Alliance on the other hand is supposed to be about diversity and freedom; a variety of races; a variety of ship designs; all shapes; all colours; all sizes.

Having a unified Alliance Navy might be an objective, but I don't think it should be a starting point because of all the writing opportunities it would obliterate. If the Alliance High Command can just "order" the Hapan Royal Navy to do whatever it wants it to, there's no scope for politics, or negotiation, or conflict. Where's the fun in that? Also, remember that our job as an Alliance government is to appease our members, and make them feel safe and secure: taking away the ships that provide them a sense of security is deeply unwise from that perspective.

If we're going to migrate away from private defense fleets and towards everything being part of the Alliance Navy: that's a path we should walk down slowly, and let it happen organically over the course of stories, threads, and time. Right off the bat, I know that Torrsk Oruo'rel of Bothawui, and Kelvin Stark of Torque would say "no, sod off" if you tried to tell them to give up their ships.

From the discussions we've had from a political angle, the conflict and inefficiency of how we do things - making mistakes and working out ways to avoid them in future - is the meat and potatoes of what we're setting out to do.

I did not say give up their ships. Though they should from a military stand point, I just think they should be required to defend other worlds also. Ownership of the ships can remain with the parties who own them but they can not stockpile their ships or just use them in their sectors. That s in no way fair and at best would make them an Ally and not a charter world. And as allies sure we work together but they should not have a say in what goes on with our government when they have no desire to help defend it. As a charter world they must be held as responsible as any other world in the defense of the Alliance. I know this is not what will happen I am simple pointing out that this is something the Senate needs to deal with. By those commanders refusing to comply they commit treason and therefore should be dealt with as such. Reshmar will push for the fleets they maintain to be thinned and they create patrol fleets to help defend the Alliance. What is the Alliance senate telling people by playing favorites right off the bat. Sure this is something that will not happen over night and I see no way where this will limit anyone's ability to create anything. IM not saying they give up all their ships, I am saying they can not keep them all.
These patrol fleets will offer more in the way of opportunities rather than limit them. All that being said OOC wise it doesn't matter but IC it does. We can not have governments with a military as large as the Alliance in one sector. I think after Dan hits the jedi that will be more than obvious. The republics way was flawed that's why the new republic did not do it that way, and after Naboo and the blockade by the Neimoidians and the trade federation, even the Republic attempted to strip worlds of sizable fleets. The Alliance has to protect each of its member worlds equally and the forces of its members should be available for that defense no matter who or what resists.

T'yeellaa Meorrrei

Feb 5th, 2014, 12:56:57 AM

The way I see it in the long view is that as the Alliance matures, they'll likely develop a homogenized starfleet that is tasked with keeping the border, open deployment within the territory, and all that. They would field a fleet of fairly fixed consistency, crewed with folks from all over. The home systems and sectors would still have some forces of their own, with their own local flavor. It's kinda like the difference betwen the Roman legion and the Roman auxilia. They always field together, but they are not the same.

The best way I can think of the Alliance right now is Articles of Confederation-era America. Fairly decentralized government, central government still a little weak, and their main military power from locally-mustered militias.

If I'm off base with that assessment its cool, just how I see it at the moment.

Atton Kira

Feb 5th, 2014, 01:26:22 AM

Ownership of the ships can remain with the parties who own them but they can not stockpile their ships or just use them in their sectors. That s in no way fair and at best would make them an Ally and not a charter world.

The problem is, what is "fair" is irrelevant this early in the lifespan of the Alliance of Free Planets.

Weapons of mass destruction forced the Treaty to be signed. That Treaty defines a line that runs through the galaxy, and defines what is Alliance space and what is Imperial space. All the worlds in Imperial space are already subjugated by the Empire. They're already fortified, paying taxes, producing supplies, contributing to an economy. If you're on the Imperial side of the line, you are Imperial by virtue of the fact that the Empire will enslave you if you aren't.

If you're on the Alliance side of the line, it's a very different story. You don't have to be an Alliance world. You don't have to pay taxes to the Alliance government. There are perks and benefits if you do, including protection by the Alliance Navy... but the Alliance's morality means that they can't ensure loyalty through force. Instead, the Alliance has to court and seduce it's members. If they want the Hapes Consortium to be an ally, they need to sweeten the deal, and appease the monarchy. Demanding that Hapes contributes ships to the Alliance Navy is the opposite of that: you're not just asking the Hapans to share, you're demanding that they sacrifice part of their own security in order to provide for the security of a totally different world that they don't give a damn about.

Like Charley says, eventually we should evolve towards a homogenized starfleet: but we're not there yet. If Bothawui, Hapes, Carshoulis, Torque, and all the other planets with "private" navies are going to donate ships to the defense effort, it needs to be a voluntary thing; it needs to be a political request rather than a military demand; and I think at least initially it should only be at a local fleet level. You're not asking the Hapans to help defend the entire Alliance: you're just asking them to help the Third Fleet defend their local neighbourhood, etc.

Park Kraken

Feb 7th, 2014, 05:13:29 AM

What if we ran the Alliance Navy NATO style? Every ship in a member's navy would belong to NATO in addition to the member (dual ownership) and would be required for missions in times of emergency, although they could be recalled if said member faced a greater danger/emergency at home.

Atton Kira

Feb 7th, 2014, 06:46:51 AM

That's not quite how NATO works, but NATO isn't a bad source of inspiration for this sort of thing.

Rather than "dual ownership", all I think we need to do is bear in mind who paid for the ship. For example -

The Alliance Senate uses credits from the defense budget (raised by "federal taxes"), and pays the Sluis Van Shipyards to build an Endurance-class carrier. They also pay for the training of a few thousand crewmen and assign them aboard. Because the Alliance Senate paid for it, the ship "belongs" to the Alliance Navy, and they can assign it wherever they want.

The Bothan Council could also approach Sluis Van, and pay for an Endurance-class carrier using credits raised by "state taxes". They assemble a few thousand members of the Bothan Defense Force and assign them aboard. Because they paid for it, and because the crew is part of the Bothan Defense Force, the Bothans have total control over where that ship is assigned. If Admiral Tyree wants to make use of that ship as part of his defensive plans, he would have to come to some sort of agreement with Senator Oruo'rel and the Bothan Council. The Bothans would no doubt be fine with the ship being used to defend Kothlis (in Bothan Space) or Dressel (a nearby Bothan ally), but they might be reluctant to have the ship sent to defend Radnor, or to stray over the boarder and patrol for pirates in the Arkanis Sector.

(This happened with the E-3 Sentry: the US and UK bought planes outright; they are operated by USAF/RAF personnel, and are owned by the US/UK government.)

Because of some complex legal shenanigans, the SoroSuub Corporation effectively "owns" the Sullustan Council. Because the Endurance-class carrier is (in our continuity) developed/built by Sluis Van and SoroSuub working together, the SoroSuub Corporation could have one built "at cost", paid for by SoroSuub's profits. If an Endurance-class sells for 10% more than it costs, SoroSuub might decide to use the profits from every nine Endurance-class carriers that the Alliance Senate and/or the Bothan Council buys, and build a tenth "for free". That tenth Endurance would be owned by the SoroSuub Corporation, but because assembling several thousand crewmen from the Sullustan Home Guard would be tricky and expensive; they "give" the carrier to the Alliance Navy who provides the crew, and might "politely suggest" that the ship should be assigned to the Fifth Fleet to help defend the people who paid for it.

Naboo is wealthy, but the Naboo Security Force is small. Alternatively, perhaps Clak'dor, H'Nemthe, and Xagobah can't afford to buy an Endurance-class outright, but they can each afford to pay 1/3 of the cost. Similar to SoroSuub, these planets could pay for the ship to be built, and then provide some of the crew. The carrier would be owned by the Alliance Navy to do with as they felt was appropriate; though assigning it to Fifth Fleet to defend the people who paid for it makes sense.

(This also happened with the E-3 Sentry: many countries shared the cost of the planes, which were "owned" by NATO, and had crews drawn from the militaries of various NATO nations.)

Those last few options could work on a small scale as well. In order to contribute to the Alliance Navy, the Naboo Security Force might pay for thirty-six new E-Wings to be built, and might provide thirty-six NSF pilots to fly them. Those pilots would still be NSF Officers, and would still wear NSF uniforms. However, Naboo would be able to say to the Alliance Navy: "Here are 36 E-Wings that you may use for this specific purpose." That specific purpose might be as part of the air wing aboard one of the starships in the Fifth Fleet. That purpose might be forming part of the air wing aboard the Challenger, back at Bothawui. That purpose might have them assigned directly to Starfighter Command for the Alliance Navy to use them as and when appropriate. However, if the Alliance is planning to provide military support to the Tion Hegemony and Naboo voted against that in the Senate, Naboo might be able to insist that the Alliance Navy doesn't use ships for that purpose.

(Another real NATO situation: the Eurofighter and Joint Strike Fighter were researched/developed by several nations working together; those nations then bought squadrons of those planes, which they own, but can contribute to NATO missions if needed.)

It sounds like a headache, but this really is how NATO operates. The majority of ships the Alliance uses would be owned outright by the Alliance Navy, or would fall into that category of having been paid for by a specific planet, but crewed by the Alliance Navy. Aside from a little bit of flavour of the different ways smaller / less wealthy members can contribute to the military, that's pretty straight forward. Where it gets fun though is when you get the Bothans and Sullustans deciding that they're going to be French, and refuse to back a particular action in the Gulf; suddenly your fleet is thrown off balance because of political shenanigans.

It is a very fallible system... but that's what will make it fun I think, and it'll help show that our politics roleplaying is having an impact.

Vishus Thorn

Feb 7th, 2014, 11:34:54 AM

I like this. The thought of having a ship just pull off and refuse to fight is very cool. That would really make for interesting stories.

Castus Annen

Feb 8th, 2014, 08:30:09 PM

Can't wait to get in on this. Once the promotion goes through, that is ;)

Taataani Meorrrei

Feb 8th, 2014, 09:25:32 PM

Team Cat will not sit still for this blatant attempt to weasel into power. If there are ill motives at work, we will ferret out the culprits responsible. :|

Castus Annen

Feb 8th, 2014, 10:25:11 PM

I'll make sure every ship in the Alliance is made to carry a pun jar. Don't you dare think I won't, woman.

Taataani Meorrrei

Feb 8th, 2014, 10:40:13 PM

Some of us can afford to pay that jar :D

Castus Annen

Feb 8th, 2014, 10:46:46 PM

... says the prickly-pear who got thrown in her own son's brig.

Vansen Tyree

Feb 8th, 2014, 10:47:36 PM

You would be wise, Rear Admiral Annen, to address an Alliance Senator in a more respectful tone in future. I have little patience for politics, but even less for officers who disrespect the uniform and the rank insignia attached to it by displaying conduct unbecoming. :mad

Be sure to requisition yourself a sense of humour next time you swing by Logistics. I don't have much patience for having to repeat myself either.

:colbert

Castus Annen

Feb 8th, 2014, 11:27:29 PM

Not my intention to disrespect, sir; merely to state a fact.

Won't happen again, Admiral.

Numax Meltstrong

Feb 20th, 2014, 07:39:45 AM

C and P for a upcoming Bill to be discussed/voted on in a thread sometime soon;

For Mustafar, a review for a bill to shutdown 25% of all factory production in the wake of the peace treaty, 25% conversion to civilian production, while retaining the remaining 50% for military production.

The production of raw resources is set to remain at 100% with increased sales to off-world customers.

For military appropriations, Tempest Engineering Works reports that the current Frigate contract is 70% completed and the company wishes to bid on a contract for the refitting of older Destroyer sized vessels that have been deemed either worthy of continued service as warships or conversions into secondary purpose vessels.

Captain Untouchable

Oct 29th, 2014, 04:20:47 AM

Bumping the thread to see if there's anything that needs updating on the list in Post #2 (http://theholo.net/forum/showthread.php?55290-Nerdmas-Plots-Alliance-Senate-amp-Government&p=1022070&viewfull=1#post1022070).

Any new Senators that need adding?

Also, I know we talked about Tell Cho being a Senator or Representative or Ambassador something for Ossus (because of settling his refugees on the planet), but I can't remember if we decided on what his title formally was.

Vince

Oct 29th, 2014, 08:04:04 AM

Captain Untouchable

Oct 29th, 2014, 11:02:11 AM

Is that an... "I forgot, and have done something different" type forgotten, or an "I forgot, I should totally still do that" version? :uhoh

Vince

Oct 29th, 2014, 04:00:06 PM

"I forgot, I should totally still do that"

That one!

Captain Untouchable

Oct 29th, 2014, 04:06:42 PM

In that case, what shall I add you in as in the post - Ambassador, Representative, or Senator? :ohno

Vince

Oct 29th, 2014, 05:27:17 PM

That's what I forgot! ^_^;

Captain Untouchable

Oct 30th, 2014, 08:19:57 PM

Looking at it in terms of maths and geography (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/o6untouchable/Fans/Galaxy%20Map/Preview6_zps207dd359.jpg~original) and such:

In Post #2 at the moment there are 50 Senators, four of which are the 2nd Senators for Bothan/Cizerack/Hapan/Mon Calamari Space. If Tell Cho is a Senator, he would be the 51st.
There are five other refugeeish worlds in Alliance Space that I can think of off the top of my head. Three of them (New Alderaan, Presbalin, Öetrago) are represented by Senators; the other two (Sanctuary, Krinemonen III) are not. It's worth noting that those first three are refugee worlds for Alderaanians, Corellians, and Ithorians respectively; the other two are located in Mon Calamari space, so the whole "Mon Calamari Space is only allowed two Senators" stipulation is in effect.
New Alderaan, Abyss, B'Trilla, Carshoulis (x2), Chad, Dac (x2), Elom, Gand, Mirial, Presbalin, Quermia, Torque, and Vorzyd all have Senators are all in that top "slightly darker red" zone, under the protection of the Alliance 2nd Fleet. That's already 30% of our Senators in that one region.
There is no Senator at all in the Auril Sector (where Ossus is). The sector also contains Murkhana (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Murkhana), Nespis VIII (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nespis_VIII), and Dal'demnic (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bal%27demnic) (homeworld of the Kon'me (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kon%27me)).
The nearest Senators are on Chad and Abyss, both of which are big homeworlds.
Ossus is one of the closest Alliance(ish) worlds to the Tion Cluster, which is an "Imperial holdout" (for lack of a better term).

On the one hand, Senator Cho might be overkill: there are a lot of Senators in that neck of the woods already, and if Ossus gets a Senator and nearby worlds with larger populations don't, that might seem odd. On the other hand, Ossus is in a very strategically important position, and being a Senator in the Auril Sector might make Tell Cho something of a de facto Ambassador in stories dealing with the Tion Cluster... which is something Charley and I have backburner wants to do at some point. Being a Senator would also give Tell Cho a cadre of political underlings: given the position he had within the Corporate Sector, he'd certainly be quite qualified to be that kind of senior politician type person.

On the third hand (I guess we're a Besalisk or something), Tell Cho is affiliated with the Jedi; and as a Senator, he'd be another Jedi in a significant political position in amongst all of the stuff regarding General Dan and s'Ilancy. That might be problematic, because the Alliance might have some big problems continuing to trust him despite his contributions to the Alliance this far... that might be a dealbreaker, or it just might mean the story is more juicy.

tl;dr - if you want lots of political intrigue and possible Tion Cluster stuff, go Senator; if you want moderate intrigue without playing "a larger role" in politics outside of Ossus, go Representative; and if you want to avoid absolutely everything except Jedi and Gossam stuff (ie. you don't want to take part in Senate discussions or political business unless they directly relate to Ossus), go Ambassador.

They're all pretty cool options, and I think they all fit fairly well-ish with what everyone else on Ossus is leaning towards?

Lilaena De'Ville

Nov 1st, 2014, 11:01:21 AM

Isn't Tell Cho representing his people, not "Ossus" (the Jedi aren't politically a part of the senate and the Ysanna are not advanced enough)?

Droo

Nov 1st, 2014, 11:12:53 AM

Lilaena De'Ville

Nov 1st, 2014, 11:21:40 AM

Oh yes, it's coming back to me now.

Captain Untouchable

Nov 1st, 2014, 12:15:59 PM

http://theholo.net/forum/showthread.php?23231-The-Jedi-in-Year-10/page2

Check out the last few posts in this thread. Ossus is what would have senate representation, not the Jedi. On top of the growing Gossam population, I expect Ossus will start to be repopulated. It's not like the Jedi's existance or location is a secret anymore - it's safe behind Alliance borders. With that in mind, there's no reason for the planet to be an exclusively Jedi location anymore.

Further to Droo's point, a bit of food for thought / added flavour for you Jedi folks.

The four refugee worlds that I've stumbled across thus far each have a different flavour of refugee. New Alderaan is the surrogate home for Alderaanian culture, so one might presume it's a pretty peaceful, artistic, humany sort of place. The reason Leadra Longstar is down as the Senator for Presbalin is that we wanted to have a lot of Corellian Sector refugees on that world - Corellians, Duros, Selonians, and so on; more of a rugged, spacer sort of vibe. Krinemonen III is a mostly aquatic world, and is filled with mostly aquatic refugees. And then Sanctuary is sorta "the" refugee world for the Alliance, one of the oldest, so it's probably got a pretty interesting mix of different races and different cultures all blended together.

That might mean that anyone who decides to settle down on Ossus might have a different personality. They might be very spiritual people. They might be people feel that the peace treaty with the Empire means that the Alliance has given up on the "to Restore the Republic" part, and want to hang out with the Jedi because it's a reassuring reminder of the past. They might be people who don't like the Empire, but who don't like the Alliance either because "they're terrorists", and it's easier to believe that the Jedi are the "good guys" than the Alliance is. They might be something else entirely, or all of the above.

Something you guys might have fun thinking about, at any rate. But of extra flavour as the settlement grows and such. :)