Jedi Empaths

[Dae Jinn]

I was reading the mini-bio thread, and it seems like half the Jedi in the order are empaths -- I'm planning on bringing (if I'm accepted, that is) my character Hana into the GJO, and having her only have empathic abilities.


So, who at GJO is an empath and would possibly like to do a few threads with me in the (near) future?

[Dasquian Belargic]

it seems like half the Jedi in the order are empaths

:( and here I thought I'd chosen something unique for Dasquian to specialize in

[Dae Jinn]

I know, it's not that everypne specializes in it, but everyone has it listed in their Force skills :/ I'd prefer someone who's more focused on that, since I want that to be Hanas' only skill.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Well, for Nav - she can sense emotions and motives. Nothing like changing them tho as a true Empath. Her abilities are rather bizarre heh

edit - duh forgot to list em... She's a Healer and because of some crazy fun, can mimick people abilities if she studies them enough- something I hardly ever do since it hasnt come up storywise :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

Dasquian can only sense emotions at this moment in time. I don't plan on having him be able to change them until he's become a Master, I think. Seems like it would be a high level skill.

[Navaria Tarkin]

makes sense, tho Navaria isnt going to be going that route. More of an extensive healer.

[Dae Jinn]

I was thinking of sort of the same thing, Dasq. As she gets better at it, she can do more (d-uh, that's only natural, lol). I was just surprized that so many people listed that under their skills.

[Dasquian Belargic]

It's sort of like telekinesis and telepathy, in that way. People just assume that Jedi can do that sort of thing naturally.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Yep, Jedi can do a great many things, but to be able to do all things with such skill is another matter. Almost every Jedi should be able to sense emotions since they are intricate to the Force - Light and Dark

[Dae Jinn]

Yes, I understand, but I wouldn't put , say, telekinesis at the top of the list of my Force skills if I had a character who was a saber expert. (Just am picky :p)

[Navaria Tarkin]

hehe, well it is your character :p

[Dae Jinn]

Which is why I only want the best! ^_^;

[Kale]

Well, by contrast, Kale has an acute sense of danger, but he's as empathic as a brick.

If you want a direction to take it a little further...

Perhaps, with training, Hana could learn not only to intricately sense emotion but project it as well. For instance, Hana is chased into an alley by a team of thugs. In defense, she projects her fear onto them--they grow nervous and leave.

Later on, she might have more control so she can manufacture feelings without feeling them herself. Example: she needs to sneak by a sentry, so she gives him a sudden interest in a girl walking down the street.

Does that help any?

[Devon Russels]

Originally posted by Kale
Well, by contrast, Kale has an acute sense of danger, but he's as empathic as a brick.

If you want a direction to take it a little further...

Perhaps, with training, Hana could learn not only to intricately sense emotion but project it as well. For instance, Hana is chased into an alley by a team of thugs. In defense, she projects her fear onto them--they grow nervous and leave.

Later on, she might have more control so she can manufacture feelings without feeling them herself. Example: she needs to sneak by a sentry, so she gives him a sudden interest in a girl walking down the street.

Does that help any?

Now thats a nice idea. Almost got me thinking about making an empathic out of mine, but I like telekenetics and usuage of lightsaber.

[Dae Jinn]

Originally posted by Kale
Well, by contrast, Kale has an acute sense of danger, but he's as empathic as a brick.

If you want a direction to take it a little further...

Perhaps, with training, Hana could learn not only to intricately sense emotion but project it as well. For instance, Hana is chased into an alley by a team of thugs. In defense, she projects her fear onto them--they grow nervous and leave.

Later on, she might have more control so she can manufacture feelings without feeling them herself. Example: she needs to sneak by a sentry, so she gives him a sudden interest in a girl walking down the street.

Does that help any?

That was basically my idea, although it would take time for her to develope such strong skills. She's only eight, people!

*flaunts new sig for fun*

[Devon Russels]

I like the new sig.

[Dasquian Belargic]

In defense, she projects her fear onto them--they grow nervous and leave.

Later on, she might have more control so she can manufacture feelings without feeling them herself. Example: she needs to sneak by a sentry, so she gives him a sudden interest in a girl walking down the street.

That's basically what we were saying earlier, about having the ability to change someones emotions... a pretty high-order power.

[Devon Russels]

How high order would you say it is? Has anyone in the Order manage to perform the task of projection...like when you place your feelings onto another? It sounds like it'd be hard for even a skilled Jedi.

[Dasquian Belargic]

As far as I know, there has never been a Jedi Master who specialized solely in Empathy. I might be wrong, but I don't think that anyone has ever used the skill to its full extent. So, the short answer is, no.

[Dae Jinn]

I could see if someone had Falleen or even Zeltron blood in them being able to actually do it, but that's more of a biological trait to their species.

Empathy isn't exactly an amazing power. I'm sure people would pick one of the other skills as something to master (Like sabers or telekinesis for example). I thought making Hana an empath would keep her mostly the same - she won't be physically strong(er than a normal person) or able to use the Force like a pro. I dunno, I don't have any characters that are heavily Force-based o_O I use telekinesis mostly as my other chars. so I wanted Hana to be different :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

Empathy isn't exactly an amazing power. I'm sure people would pick one of the other skills as something to master

That's why I chose it for Dasquian... something different :D

[Dae Jinn]

Exactly. :D

[Kelt Simoson]

I think when Kelt becomes a Master he will specialize in Accuracy/Marksmanship and Healing. He would be excellent in being able to hit the mark with a Bow and Saber, knowing where to hit the body and being able to do it effectivly in defence or attack.

And of course, a major in healing as kelt as always been a healer.

Though i should imagine specializing in two or more feats would split your power, meaning if you specialize in two feats your slightly weaker in both as appose to being stronger if you mearly specialize in one single feat?

[Navaria Tarkin]

I wouldn't say that. I believe you can focus on two areas and became greatly adept at it, but wouldn't be so strong in other areas.

Oddly enough, Navaria was going for much the same. Sabre combatant/healer :)

[Shanaria Fabool]

Shanaria is just going with effecting the Minds of others as her Focus. and yes I beleave you can have a focus on more than one thing but it has to be countered wit han equal or greater Flaw.

[Loki Ahmrah]

I think it's pointless to say your Jedi character specialises in lightsaber combat and list it as an ability. It's like saying "I'm going to create a character who is a fish but can only survive in water." The lightsaber is the Jedi weapon so all Jedi should be experts with it.

Specialise in Force powers, yes, but if you specialise in lightsaber combat then make it a branch of the skill which is more rare, ie. double-bladed sabers, dual sabers, etc.

[Navaria Tarkin]

That is what I meant Loki - by product of 'being' with Dale - Navaria knows how to use that stuff as a side-effect

long story :x

[Dasquian Belargic]

Aaron is going to specialize in path-finding/tracking people with the Force, as well as a bit of telekinesis in there as a secondary/backup skill.


Specialise in Force powers, yes, but if you specialise in lightsaber combat then make it a branch of the skill which is more rare, ie. double-bladed sabers, dual sabers, etc.

or one of the advanced Forms, even :)

[Dae Jinn]

Originally posted by Kelt Simoson
I think when Kelt becomes a Master he will specialize in Accuracy/Marksmanship and Healing. He would be excellent in being able to hit the mark with a Bow and Saber, knowing where to hit the body and being able to do it effectivly in defence or attack.


That's what I'm going for with my darkside character Kelt. *has a list of vital body points if you want it* ^_^;

[Rognan Dar]

On topic, my thoughts on about Empathy are few, but great. For one, sensing emotion should be someting all Jedi can do. Not that you can do it without knowing how, but its something thats all around. Now, being able to pick out a emotion in a crowd or something like that would take more skill.

Plus in the NJO books Jacen Solo was able to use a kind of Empathy to move surtain emotions from one Jedi to the other (in a mind battle meld) in order to focus others strengths to weaknesses (emotionally). But he was not a Master and was still young. So its all up to how you want to set the rule for it. That could be something you might want to do latter on or whatever. But being able to sense things should be just one of the things that all Jedi should have their hands at lest in. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to feel a attack coming and so on. Just my thoughts.

I agree with the saber thing. All jedi should be able to use it. When I started, I didn't want Rog to be a good fighter and focus more on the Force. But as I RPed him out, I saw that in most cases there is a need to fight. So I slowly developed his fighting (not that its really good right now). But I still focus more on Telekinesis. Thats what I would say he is best and strongest at.

[Pierce Tondry]

The difference is in degree, Rog. A Master at telekinetics will be able to do things of a greater complexity than a Master at lightsaber combat, however the former might lose to the latter in a straight-saber duel.

Here's a further example: Pierce is a combat specialist, focusing in both lightsaber and unarmed disciplines. Though he has a small amount of telekinetic skill, his choice in combat would be to use that power to retrieve his lightsaber rather than attempt to throw an object at an opponent. A telekinetic specialist would opt to use fewer lightsaber strikes and more Force pushes/thrown objects/attempts to disarm by using the Force to steal their opponent's weapon.

That doesn't necessarily leave the combat specialist at a disadvantage, however. The likelihood is that their ability to dodge will be more instinctive, their danger sense will be stronger, and their lightsaber/unarmed combat disciplines will teach them techniques to stop or turn aside flying objects with less effort. They will be more effective fighters, but less effective when their task calls for them to lift a building.

[Kelt Simoson]

Exsactly, take for exsample a master at Karate. One could level himself to be a black belt while the other takes it to yellow and stops and perhaps trains further in yoga or archery?

The point is if you continue your training in the ways of swordplay you become better and better as your progress in its art, if for instance, like if Aaron up there concentraits fully on force tracking but maintains his sword play at its current level kelt or Nav would progress faster in Saber skills because they are training consistantly with it and thus would be better at it than others who are not practicing it as a prime feat.

At least thats my opinion.

[James Prent]

but all Jedi should be at least competent with a lightsaber.

That word doesn't look right.

[Dasquian Belargic]

All Jedi will have a basic proficiency with a lightsaber, yep. Similarly, most padawans get taught some basic empathy, telepathy, telekinesis, etc. Then they see which they are best at, and shelve the others in favour of developing the ones they've shown promise in :)

Basically, you are only realistically going to have the time to master one, perhaps two, things. It's like what Kelt said - try to master a lot of martial arts, and you'll get perhaps a competent knowledge of them, but nothing more - as opposed to if you focused on just one, then you would obviously become much more skilled at that.

[Loki Ahmrah]

I think it should be a priority for all Jedi to master the lightsaber. I'm sorry this is so off topic but it's something that I want to pick up on; a Jedi Knight should be awesome with a lightsaber while a Jedi Master should be practically unstoppable. A Jedi and a lightsaber should be as commonplace as a Jedi and the Force, basic saber skills for a Jedi is not enough in my opinion, I think all Jedi characters should be trained to become masters of the lightsaber. Otherwise it's like an Imperial rifleman being able to pull the trigger and not much else.

When a character becomes a Jedi, there is an expectancy to become proficiant at physical efforts such as combat and especially lightsaber combat. All Jedi should be faster, stronger and more agile than your average human being with lightsaber skills and the Force, to boot. I think it's becoming a common trait around here to forget just how awesome a force a Jedi Knight is supposed to be. Unless up against another Jedi or Sith, they should have practically no equal.

So yes, develop in empathy but I think, while the character is your own he/she has accepted the Jedi path and that includes the training essential to enable a Jedi to not only survive but also be a master of combat situations should the need for force arise. All Jedi are pacifists in nature but should posess all the fundamental skills such as lightsaber combat et al. thrown in with the package.

Now, who wants the soap box?

[Shanaria Fabool]

But just as there are some that can't use telepathy, or telekinitics(sp), Why is it so hard to to beleave that a person just can't grasp the skills of a lightsaber, aside from swinging it like a club. Or what is wrong with a healer that just can't bring themselves to touch a weapon, weather it be in training or not.

Just because A lightsaber is a symbol of the Jedi doesn't meen that every body has to use it. It doesn't meen thy can't fight with other meens, or even just not fight. The lightsaber is not the Be-all and end-All of jedi combats, and there are bound to be people with personalities that prevent them from learning the Lightsaber, and still able to be Jedi.

[Kale]

*takes the soap box from Loki*

As I understand it, many knights, particularly non-combat specialists, study Form VI, a general form of lightsaber combat. It incorporates elements of all the other forms but doesn't go nearly as deep in any of them. A knight trained in Form VI presumably can respond well in a variety of situations but won't match up to a specialist in another form--won't be as good at defense as a Form III master, at agility as a Form IV, or at offensive power as a Form V.

Even a practicioner of Form VI, by the time he or she attains knight status, ought to be pretty darned formidable to anyone who isn't a knight-level Forcer. It's ideal for diplomats, healers, and investigators/spies (the profession I'm working Kale toward now). They're the ones who have to be prepared to be thrown into just about any situation except heavy combat, where you'd rather send a Jedi warrior.

But I think it's still fair to distinguish saber specialists as such. They could take a form to a point of mastery well beyond a generalist, and they may be able to attain a workable grasp of several forms and define their own style. I imagine that's what most self-described saber specialists around here do anyway; I see the forms as an optional way to classify yourself so as to give others an idea of what to expect.

I would say, however, it would be irresponsible to confer knight status to anyone who hasn't progressed beyond the bare rudiments of saber combat. By their status alone, Jedi Knights are high-profile targets. I don't see anyone but a Master having their Force powers developed to the point that they can protect themselves from the perils of the job without a saber.

[Dae Jinn]

God, I don't like SW that much Loki, so :p

I'm horrible at writing fights, and never EVER make my characters proficent at saber combat, or any kind of combat either. I'm a dirty fighter when I do have a combat thread. (The only character I have who fights is Kyashi, who uses needles. No saber (yet) and he probably never will have one.)

Hana is going to be a young girl when she joins the Order - I don't think fighting with a saber will be a high priority for her. Dae is settling down, and does nothing but take care of her kid.

I'm not saying Jedis' shouldn't know how to use a saber - I'm saying like everything in life, some people will suck hard at using them :lol

[Rognan Dar]

Originally posted by Shanaria Fabool
But just as there are some that can't use telepathy, or telekinitics(sp), Why is it so hard to to beleave that a person just can't grasp the skills of a lightsaber, aside from swinging it like a club. Or what is wrong with a healer that just can't bring themselves to touch a weapon, weather it be in training or not.

Just because A lightsaber is a symbol of the Jedi doesn't meen that every body has to use it. It doesn't meen thy can't fight with other meens, or even just not fight. The lightsaber is not the Be-all and end-All of jedi combats, and there are bound to be people with personalities that prevent them from learning the Lightsaber, and still able to be Jedi.

Yes, there are some Jedi that do not fight and contribute to helping the Jedi in other ways. Such as being a doctor or healer, or even in science and tecnology developement. Some, when starting out dont really get into the fighting thing right away. And those that do fight are good at it or they would not have a lightsaber. Even Leia Solo had a lightsaber. Though she was not good with it, and, in fact, she didn't practice much of the Jedi stuff, she still used it when she had to. It is a symbol and part of a Jedi's life. If they didn't have it then they would not be in situation that would require someone to be able to fight. And for RPing here, there is very little to do on the side line that would be easy to keep with and make it fun to do.

[Loki Ahmrah]

Originally posted by Shanaria Fabool
Or what is wrong with a healer that just can't bring themselves to touch a weapon, weather it be in training or not.

Just because A lightsaber is a symbol of the Jedi doesn't meen that every body has to use it.

The lightsaber is not the Be-all and end-All of jedi combats, and there are bound to be people with personalities that prevent them from learning the Lightsaber, and still able to be Jedi.

I completely disagree with these statements. A Jedi in training should have no choice when it comes to lightsaber training. Like Kale said, Jedi are high profile targets and not training one in lightsaber combat is like throwing someone into a lion's den with a toothpick and expect them to survive.

All Jedi should train in lightsaber combat, IMO. It should be a neccessity prior to any kind of promotion. Even the six year old padawans in AOTC were training with them. And you're right, not everyboy will have to use it, but they should be able to use one should the need arise. It's Jedi basic training.

There is nothing as far as character traits go that should prevent someone using a lightsaber and if there are then that character shouldn't qualify as a Jedi as far as I'm concerned. Yes, they may never need it but to not have any skills with a lightsaber whatsoever? Utter nonsense.

Kale is right about when it comes to specialising in saber combat, my first post was a little shifty in meaning but I Nav picked up on what I meant. Yes, all Jedi should have the basic lightsaber form practically mastered then if they choose branch out with other, advanced styles, techniques and alternate lightsaber weapons. That's lightsaber specialisation.

To reitterate, as far as I am concerned, all Jedi should be highly adept with a lightsaber before being promoted then if that character is a healer, they will probably never need to use it. If a diplomat then use is also rare. Your character type determines all this but to say they don't use or don't train in lightsaber combat is ludicrious.

[Kelt Simoson]

Originally posted by Loki Ahmrah
I completely disagree with these statements. A Jedi in training should have no choice when it comes to lightsaber training. Like Kale said, Jedi are high profile targets and not training one in lightsaber combat is like throwing someone into a lion's den with a toothpick and expect them to survive.

All Jedi should train in lightsaber combat, IMO. It should be a neccessity prior to any kind of promotion. Even the six year old padawans in AOTC were training with them. And you're right, not everyboy will have to use it, but they should be able to use one should the need arise. It's Jedi basic training.

There is nothing as far as character traits go that should prevent someone using a lightsaber and if there are then that character shouldn't qualify as a Jedi as far as I'm concerned. Yes, they may never need it but to not have any skills with a lightsaber whatsoever? Utter nonsense.

Kale is right about when it comes to specialising in saber combat, my first post was a little shifty in meaning but I Nav picked up on what I meant. Yes, all Jedi should have the basic lightsaber form practically mastered then if they choose branch out with other, advanced styles, techniques and alternate lightsaber weapons. That's lightsaber specialisation.

To reitterate, as far as I am concerned, all Jedi should be highly adept with a lightsaber before being promoted then if that character is a healer, they will probably never need to use it. If a diplomat then use is also rare. Your character type determines all this but to say they don't use or don't train in lightsaber combat is ludicrious.

A Jedi should have the choice of being a defencive Jedi or a Pacafist, the neccesity of training with a lightsaber is up to the indervisual not the Order in my opinion.

[Loki Ahmrah]

The Jedi in question should have that choice but that is not to say they shouldn't recieve training. Look at it realistically, if a six year old padawan turned around and objected to lightsaber training, the council would just bitchslap the little thing back to Bei-jiing. Sorry but Jedi are protectors of peace and justice, use of force may be needed for them to carry out that role. For them to whinge about not wanting to use weapons then imo the response they get should be: "Yawn! Yes, well that's all nice and noble and all - none of us want violence - hellooooo? Jediiiii? But I want a holocron made of solid gold and it's just not on the cards either! Boohoo for you, padawan! Failed!"

About the choice being up to the individual not the order is like a 12 year old starting secondary school and saying, "This mathematics subject, and English, I don't like the sound of them and probably wont need them in my future so I'm not going to study them!" Yeah right, it's all about fundamentals. lightsaber training is a fundamental core training subject as far as I'm concerned. It's not restricting or tying down your character because at the end of the day, after training, the Jedi character still has the choice of using a lightsaber or not.

[Kelt Simoson]

Dude using that exsample of school is slighty out of context. The fact there are otherways for a Jedi to keep the peace other than drawing a lightsaber is a little different than having to learn English and Math a compulsery subject.

I think that when a Jedi spots the force within a child that child is gifted enough in the sence that he/she/it should be able to make its own decision of the usage of deadly weapons. If the padawan wishes to learn other ways of keeping peace, such as using the mind, using hand to hand combat and so fourth.

In my opinion there are many more ways, much more powerfull than using a lightsaber to calm a dangerous situation, perticuley with a force gifted being.

I still think its up to the Master and his Padawan to make the descision.

Which brings me to my next point.

I was thinking of something i think personaly was a good idea. I think where we have our Masters list in recruitment (or wherever it is) we should have what that Knight/Master is training/concentrating in himself so that the Padawan that is going to ask he/she to take them as a padawan knows what that Master is more skilled in, thus, knowing that that master can teach them in the ways that they wish?

What do you guys think?

[Dasquian Belargic]

I was thinking of something i think personaly was a good idea. I think where we have our Masters list in recruitment (or wherever it is) we should have what that Knight/Master is training/concentrating in himself so that the Padawan that is going to ask he/she to take them as a padawan knows what that Master is more skilled in, thus, knowing that that master can teach them in the ways that they wish?

What do you guys think?

Sounds like a good idea to me :)

[Loki Ahmrah]

Good idea, Kelt. That said, I still think a Jedi not being trained lightsaber combat is nonsense. Like I said, it's like throwing someone into a lion's den with a toothpick and expecting them to survive but at the end of the day it is your character. I just think for common sense's sake, the lightsaber and a Jedi should go hand in hand.

[Kelt Simoson]

Yeah but its HOW they use that tooth pick who says they need to stab somone with it?

[Navaria Tarkin]

Of course all Jedi need to learn the lightsabre... it is to the degree at which they take up the weapon that turns it either into a weapon if needed, or an artform that they dedicate their life to completely.

There is a difference between the padawan learns the basics to survive and the one that wants to study all the different forums of combar, two and double bladed ones and become a weaponmaster of sorts. Not sure of the class but there is even a prestige class where a Jedi can be a swordsman, a specialist in all forms of sabre combat. How I made Navaria in the paper and pencil world :)

edit ack- Yes- I like that idea Kelt :lol If no one objects- I will start a thread later, to have a current listing of powers... Just incase something was missed

[Figrin D'an]

All Jedi learn how to use a lightsabre. It's the degree to which one studies combat and swordplay, as well as the form(s) one learns, that determine if it is a specialty or skill focus.

Any Jedi, regardless of the study path one should choose, should be more than a match in combat for most all non-Force users. A Jedi who undertakes non-combat studies and learns a less intensive sabre form will likely have problems matching up against someone who has studied one of the more complex forms, but still should be at least competant in such a situation.

[Rognan Dar]

Going off what Kelt said about using the Force to settle things is alright. But for in a combat situation where you might have to kill someone in order to protect yourself/others then killing with the Force is the way to the Dark side (or so has I have been led to believe through the books I have read).

But then what kind of killing is not part of the Dark side? Thats where I have a problem. So does that make a lightsaber right, and using the Force to kill is wrong?

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Rognan Dar
Going off what Kelt said about using the Force to settle things is alright. But for in a combat situation where you might have to kill someone in order to protect yourself/others then killing with the Force is the way to the Dark side (or so has I have been led to believe through the books I have read).

But then what kind of killing is not part of the Dark side? Thats where I have a problem. So does that make a lightsaber right, and using the Force to kill is wrong?


This is really fodder for another discussion topic entirely, but the short answer is it's the intent with which one uses the Force in such situations. It's the same with using a lightsabre, or any other weapon. It is dependent upon the circumstances of the situation and the frame of mind the Force-user has in that situation.

The ideal Jedi would like to avoid killing anyone, if possible. However, if left with no other alternative, killing an enemy to protect his/her own life, or that of others, is not inherently evil. It is when one kills while being fueled by anger, hatred, malice, etc, that it becomes an act leading down the path to the Dark Side.

[Pierce Tondry]

It should also be noted that killing directly through using the Force is a more Dark act than any other, as it is a thorough abuse of the Jedi gift in all but a few extreme circumstances. Killing through lightsaber combat is less inherently Dark, but still borders on dangerous. The less death and chaos a Jedi spreads, the better.

[Kelt Simoson]

That what Figgo and Pearce just said is was i was ultimatly trying to promote.

[Rognan Dar]

Ok, I was a little stetchy on the whole Dark side thing. And I know its how you use it that makes it bad. I just thought that using the Force in anyway, weither it was fueled by dark thoughts or not was still considered evil.

[Falcon Gyndar]

So, back on the main topic...

My Padawan character, Jame Kaman Dar, has been aware of her empathic traits her whole life, as well as telepathy. She's been working with it her whole life. So, about 20 years, nearly. Her practices were, in the beginning, filtering and blocking the emotions around her, because they would overwhelm her, and allowing her to control it. The stronger the emotions, the more they 'attack' in a sense. Before she was learned to fliter and block this, she was subject to everything the people around her felt, and it was too much. As for the telepathy, it was a practice in building her mental defenses. Other people either were afraid of her picking their brains or they were other telepaths wanting to pick/invade hers in a less than kind way. She didn't even consider that she might be Force-able until she met Rog, and found that he was her twin brother.

Jame came to the order strong in those two traits, but knowing nothing about the force or jedi. Her aim is to be a healer, mainly.
I've always had a fun time playing light characters, considering I started out evil.