MLB Baseball Playoffs

[Charley]

Originally posted by CMJ
At least they corrected it. Though Jeter shoulda been awarded 2nd base.

Agreed. Not that it matters though.

[darth_mcbain]

Yeah - I was thinking the same thing - Jeter would definitely have bagged second by that time, he should have been given it - but again, didn't matter...

[Charley]

Oh God....two more outs....

[Charley]

...one more....!!!!

[Charley]

<font size=7>YES</font>

[CMJ]

Not sure how we're gonna get thru Game 7 pitching wise. Man, what a series comeback. :cool

[jjwr]

Awesome win!

I'm just hoping Game 7 is as good as the past 3, this has been a great series and no matter who wins I hope its another classic!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah WOW what a series. I never would have though it possible. Boston is the first team to force a game 7 down 3-0. I have to think Wakefield will start since he has a rubber arm, but who knows. Torre isn't even sure about the Yankees. Brown would be on three days rest too. We might get a sluggfest type of game.

[CMJ]

Lowe 3 innings
Wakefield 2 innings
Pedro 2 innings
Embree 1 inning
Foulke 1 inning

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is a possibility. I like that. Boston needs some runs for me to be clear I hope they rough up Brown. Also here is an interesting fact. Never happened in Baseball but

The only teams in North American major sports to overcome 3-0 deficits in best of 7 series were both in the NHL Toronto over Detroit back in 1942 Stanley Cup and the NY Islanders over Pittsburgh in quaterfinals in 1975.

[CMJ]

Part of me says this is the year. Part of me says we'll find a way to lose tommorrow. Yet another part of me says we'll lose in the WS even if we get past NY.

The life of a Sox fan. :lol :lol

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL I know the feeling. I honestly don't know what to suspect. I think we have momentium but that might not mean anything. The problem is the pitching situation. Luckily both teams are in the same situation.

[Pierce Tondry]

Since everything Boston roots for loses, I suggest all Boston fans root for the Yankees tomorrow.

But don't start rooting for gravity please.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Pierce Tondry
Since everything Boston roots for loses, I suggest all Boston fans root for the Yankees tomorrow.

But don't start rooting for gravity please.

That's right since the Pats haven't ever won anything. And the Celtics don't have more NBA championships than any other team. The Bruins are not one of the most storied franchises in NHL history.

;)

[Pierce Tondry]

Other sports don't count towards a baseball curse, you sillyhead.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Pierce Tondry
Since everything Boston roots for loses,

If you want to say the Red Sox say the Sox. This statement says EVERYTHING.

And I'm the sillyhead? :lol

[jjwr]

I doubt we'll see Pedro tomorrow unless its absolutely necessary, Sox gotta plan ahead and if they win the game then they'll need him to start Game 1 of the WS with Schilling possibly coming in on game 3.

Should be a good one though.

Sox gotta score runs, they've pretty much been held in check all series for once this series they need to bust it open and drop 8+

[JMK]

Schilling's performance last night was the gutsiest performance I have ever seen in baseball. Or even heard of, and I think this easily trumps Kirk Gibson's home run heroics. There were a couple opportunities for the curse to rear its ugly head last night, namely Bellhorn's homer, and A-Rod's blatant cheating. It would have been easy for the umps to just let it be, and we'd have another 'Phantom Tag' incident. The Sox have accomplished what no one else has done before in coming back from 0-3, let's see if they can finish. Either way, they have now salvaged their pride and have put ALL the pressure squarely on the Yankees shoulders.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I agree there. Coming back down 0-3 is unbelievable I think they have nothing to be ashamed off if they lose. I been listing to news programs all morning. Whose fans will be worse off? I think the Yankees because if the Sox win they will do something no team has ever done in MLB and they will have that on NY. Boston has been down this road and if they lose again the fans will just put that up there with last year, Bucky Dent, etc.

[Doc Milo]

A little something to think about for Sox fans, curse-wise:

Tonight will be game 7.

Today is Mickey Mantle's birthday.

Mickey Mantle wore number 7.

Will the Bambino's curse add a Mickey Mantle chapter to its history? The Ghost of the Mick should be in attendence tonight!

[darth_mcbain]

Wow - what an incredible game last night. I gotta give the Sox their props - they've done what nobody else has done in baseball - force a game 7 from down 0-3, and against the Yankees no less. I so want to see them win the series - but I kind of agree with CMJ, part of me thinks they can do it, part of me thinks it won't happen... But if nothing else, they've made this a memorable series.

Go SOX!!!

[jjwr]

Good points JMC, either way the Sox are doing somthing no one has ever done before. If they do win tonight then George and the Yanks will be pissed. Not only would the Sox have denied them the chance at the World Series but they would have come back from a seemingly insurmountable defecit to do so. It wouldn't make up for all the past Sox problems but it would be a great start.

If the Sox were ever going to get to a WS it would be this year, everything is going their way, between the Schilling Heroics, huge defecit, late inning wins, right now everything is going their way.

[CMJ]

Gotta plan ahead JJ? There is no tommorrow if we lose this game. I don't care if we have to throw every starter out there.

We'll worry about the WS if we get there. All hands on deck tonight.

[CMJ]

For Sox fans, the Sports Guy sums up everything I'm sure all of us wanna say. I promise not to post every one of his articles, but he has been so great lately.

*********************************

By Bill Simmons
Page 2

**FILED AT 3:30 AM, WEDNESDAY MORNING**


Blank screen.


I'm staring at a blank screen.


(Come on ... type something ... )


What can you say? What can you say about Curt Schilling? How many words are enough? 500? 2,000? 10,000? This wasn't just an ankle sprain. His right sock was covered in blood, thanks to three sutures (!?!?!?!) holding together his dislocated ankle tendon. In Game 1, that same tendon was popping. This time it was leaking blood. He didn't care. The team needed him.


So Schilling kept pitching. Put his career on the line. Gritted through the next three hours at Yankee Stadium -- seven innings, 25 batters, 99 pitches in all. Won the game. Kept the team alive. Hugged everyone in the dugout when he was cooked. Stuck in a dip, sat back and waited for the ESPN Classic royalties to start pouring in.


It was that good. Win or lose on Wednesday night, the Schilling Game takes its place alongside the Willis Reed Game, MJ's Flu Game, Bird banging his head against the Pacers and everything else in the Sheer Guts Pantheon. Sitting in the dugout between innings, he threw a towel over his head and stared at the ground, hands pressed against his ears, looking like someone who just finished a harrowing plane flight. All he needed was a barf bag and the cast of "Lost" standing behind him.


I don't know how he did it. There was nothing different about his situation from Game 1, other than the O.J. sock, the sutures and the hands of God (his words, not mine). The Red Sox made a big deal about this "emergency boot" from Reebok, a device that would stabilize Schilling's damaged ankle tendon, but I'm starting to wonder if they bought that device on eBay from Sidd Finch and the Easter Bunny. Schilling didn't even wear it. This was about heart. This was about coming through when it mattered most. This was about choosing to pitch for a tortured franchise, promising that things would be different, and then perservering only because you gave your word.


Over the next few days, everyone will make a big deal about Schilling's Game 6, only some for the right reasons. We live in a sports world where every good moment gets beaten into the ground. It isn't enough for something to happen anymore. You have to vote. You have to watch two guys screaming on a split-screen. You have to read 400 columns, then columns by people reviewing those columns. You have to hear sports radio hosts screaming, and once the subject becomes exhausted, one of them takes a crazy angle on the topic just to keep the phone lines ringing for another hour. It keeps going and going, a vicious little snowball. When it runs out of steam, something else replaces it, and the whole cycle starts all over again.


I don't want the Schilling Game to fall into that. I don't want to hear someone claiming that he "wasn't that hurt," or that it "doesn't matter if they don't win Game 7," or even that Schilling was "milking the moment." You're not taking this away from me. This was even better than Pedro coming out of the bullpen five years ago in Cleveland, and I never thought I would say that about any Red Sox pitcher.

In my three decades of following Boston sports, my favorite underrated performance belongs to Kevin McHale, who limped around on a broken foot for two straight months in the 1987 playoffs. The doctors explained the risks to him: If he kept playing, there was a chance his foot would never be the same. He would never get the same lift again. That's what they told him. He didn't care. They were the defending champs. They needed him. So he played. He was never quite the same. Years later, when he was asked about the decision, McHale explained that you only have so many chances to win a championship, so you do what you have to do. It's that simple.


Even though Schilling was at a different point of his career, the mindset remains the same. After you win one, you just want to get back there .. even with a popping ankle tendon, with a suture leaking blood, with 46-degree weather making your legs quiver, with the hopes of an entire region resting on your back. Schilling risked his career and came through. Sometimes in sports, we have a tendency to remember the scarring moments and forget the great ones. I just hope we don't forget this one. Even when people are screamingon a split-screen.

(We'll be back on the "Sports Reporters" after this.)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So what happens Wednesday night? I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I haven't slept in four days. My back feels like Schilling rammed his protective shoe against it. Even my jaw is sore -- from chewing gum like a madman during Game 5. The classic move would be for the Sox to come back, win three games in a row, then lose the climactic 7th game. But this isn't a classic Red Sox team. The old Red Sox would have blown Game 4 or Game 5, and they definitely would have choked in Game 6. With the old Red Sox, Bellhorn's homer gets ruled a double, A-Rod definitely gets called safe at first base, and Miguel Cairo clears the bases for the game-winner in the ninth.


Here's the point: Those things haven't been happening. Sometimes you pass a point where history becomes a factor -- like with the Patriots three years ago, when the diehards kept waiting for the Other Shoe to drop, and we were waiting and waiting, and suddenly Vinatieri's final kick split the uprights, the most liberating feeling you can imagine. That's the thing about baggage as a sports fan -- you can shed this stuff. You just need a few breaks. This Boston team is getting them.


I'm not making any predictions. I'm not even trying to be coherent. Just remember the following things heading into the game:


1. In less than 24 hours, you could be hearing someone say the following sentence: "So the Red Sox completed the most dramatic comeback in baseball history rallying from three games to zero to defeat the New York Yankees and make the World Series, where they'll be facing off against Roger Clemens and the Houston Astros in Game 1."


2. If the roles were reversed, Red Sox Nation would be having a collective coronary right now. Repeat: Coronary. I can't imagine what New York is like. And the thought of Steinbrenner's potential reaction to the biggest choke in sports history ... I mean, even if you're NOT a Red Sox fan, you have to be rooting for this, right? Couldn't you see him having Cashman drawn and quartered before the Winter Meetings?


3. You could make a case that this Yankee team has more pressure tonight than any baseball team in recent memory -- not only will they be the guys who finally lost to the Red Sox, they will be the guys who choked away a 3-0 lead. Meanwhile, this Red Sox team is still playing with the house's money. It's an interesting role reversal, although the end result is that I'm still peeing blood either way.


4. My editor Brick points this out: If the Sox pull this off, for the foreseeable future, every time you're watching a playoff series (in any sport) where someone's up 3-0 and they show the "Teams that have come back from 3-0" graphic, they will feel obliged to mention the 2004 Red Sox. The moment will live on. And on. And on.


5. This isn't the 1996-1999 Yankees. Only four guys remain from that team. You can only get away with relying on so many Tanyon Sturtze- and Tony Clark-types before it catches up with you. I keep telling myself this.


6. The Buckner-Armbrister flashback play in Game 6 clearly exposed A-Rod as a liar and cheater of the highest order -- the kind who would turn over an "R" in Scrabble and pretend it's a blank letter. Warrants mentioning.


7. If the Yankees are down by two runs in the ninth inning, and somebody walks -- like Matsui did in Game 6 -- apparently it's as good as a home run. That's how Tim McCarver explained it last night. I'm not sure if just the Yankees are immune to double plays, or if it's everyone in the league. But it's an interesting development.


8. I'm thinking that All-Star Game rules apply tonight -- everyone pitches a couple of innings for the Sox, nobody stays on the mound for too long. Eighteen years ago in Shea Stadium, faced with a similar situation, the always-incompetent John McNamara screwed things up, relieving Bruce Hurst with Calvin Schiraldi and Al Nipper when he could have used Oil Can Boyd and even Roger Clemens. Things will be different this time around. Say what you want about Terry Francona -- and I have -- but he's certainly been willing to bend the standard bullpen rules during this series, for better and worse.


9. If the Red Sox prevail against the Yankees and win the World Series, you will never have to read me whining about the travails of Red Sox fans again.


10. Read that last sentence again.


Bill Simmons is a columnist for Page 2 and ESPN The Magazine. His Sports Guy's World site is updated every day Monday through Friday.

[darth_mcbain]

Good article... I'll have to read more by him...

I was reading another article on the Rodriguez incident on ESPN.com and one quote by A-Rod stuck out...



"It was a big momentum changer," Rodriguez said. "I don't want those umpires to meet anymore because every time they meet, it goes against the Yankees."


Geez - what a crybaby. Wha wha wha - I cheated and we didn't get away with it... :cry :cry :cry

Of course if I was actually in Torre's shoes I'd probably feel differently, but if A-Rod played for me and pulled some stunt like that I'd have taken him out of the game right then - if you're gonna win, then win fairly, don't stoop to cheating...

[jjwr]

I saw that quote as well, good one!

THe problem with Pedro, at least for me(in reference to this CMJ Comment - "Gotta plan ahead JJ? There is no tommorrow if we lose this game. I don't care if we have to throw every starter out there.

We'll worry about the WS if we get there. All hands on deck tonight."

While I totally agree with you Pedro was over his pitch limit on Monday so to pitch him on 2 days rest is a bad idea, not only would it possibly hurt them in this game but it would hurt them in the WS. I'd have to believe they could find a better arm in their BP than a 2 day rested Pedro, especially considering its in Yankee stadium.

[CMJ]

He could get us 3 outs. Maybe more. Heck...Ramirez could close instead of Foulke. I don't know if Foulke has anything left.

[Charley]

Originally posted by CMJ7. If the Yankees are down by two runs in the ninth inning, and somebody walks -- like Matsui did in Game 6 -- apparently it's as good as a home run. That's how Tim McCarver explained it last night. I'm not sure if just the Yankees are immune to double plays, or if it's everyone in the league. But it's an interesting development.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this little jab from the commentators was a stupid thing to say. Ugh, I can't stand how the media kisses Yankee butt like its some kind of infallible and amazing thing.

[darth_mcbain]

I just spoke with my brother-in-law and he's going to Game 7 - I'm so jealous... Man, Yankee stadium is gonna be rocking, no matter how this ends up...

[darth_mcbain]

Originally posted by Charley
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this little jab from the commentators was a stupid thing to say. Ugh, I can't stand how the media kisses Yankee butt like its some kind of infallible and amazing thing.

I thought that quote was kind of odd too. I really like Tim McCarver and I think he adds so much insight into the game, but I was kind of scratching my head when he said that too... :huh

[jjwr]

I was noticing that as well. He said after Matsui walked that all they need is a HR to tie it, then two got on and he said a HR wins it for the Yankee's. Which is true but the way he was saying it made it sound like it was almost a certainty.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah not sure why he said that. He might be biased though he used to be a commentator for the Yanks years ago.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Cardinals and Astros going into extra innings.

[CMJ]

Edmonds hits Walk Off HR....

[Charley]

GRAND SLAM BY OBI WAN!!!

[Jedieb]

Good night ladies and gentlemen! I'll be heading over to the nearest overpass and waiting for just the right moment to take a swan dive.
Boston 6
NY 0
Top of the 2nd inning
:x

[Charley]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Good night ladies and gentlemen! I'll be heading over to the nearest overpass and waiting for just the right moment to take a swan dive.
Boston 6
NY 0
Top of the 2nd inning
:x

:)

[jjwr]

Still way too early, great start by Boston though!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Wow what a shot by Damon. Now Jedieb don't do anything drastic. Still, I won't be satisfied till this game is over I remember last year. Or they are up by 10 runs or something.

[Jedieb]

Drastic?! I've already offered up my first born to Satan with no reponse. It's over. Series over, no chance in hell for the Sox to come back down 3-0 and this happens. Grabbing defeat from the clutches of victory. Unreal. So, this is what it's like to be a Sox fan huh? Boy, this blows. :x

[jjwr]

Hey Jedieb, no CMJ on tonight? I logged on to MSN in hopes of some fun banter :)

[Charley]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Drastic?! I've already offered up my first born to Satan with no reponse. It's over. Series over, no chance in hell for the Sox to come back down 3-0 and this happens. Grabbing defeat from the clutches of victory. Unreal. So, this is what it's like to be a Sox fan huh? Boy, this blows. :x

What's wrong? Steinbrenner out of money? :(

[jjwr]

6-1 now, this game is a long way from being over.

[Charley]

Why is it so important for us to see Derek Jeter's facial reactions to everything?

Derek Jeter reads the Wall Street Journal! QUICK, get a close-up of the intense concentration on his face. Look, he mouthed the word "securities". He's such a champion!

:rolleyes: I hate these people

[Charley]

OBI-WAN STRIKES BACK, BIIIATCH :cool

[jjwr]

Jeter can read? ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Wow Damon playing great 8-1. Wish they could have gotten some more runs. Heck lets say I want as many runs as possible.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Even a non basefall fan like me is now impressed and understands why Jedieb is now about to commit ritual suicide.

[Charley]

Lowe's still looking pretty sharp :cool

[CMJ]

Fifteen outs away....

[Charley]

And thanks to Kung Fu, Jesus is now 4-4 with a fielder's choice. So damn awesome :D

[Marcus Telcontar]

What's the mercy rule and when deos it get triggereD?

[Charley]

Originally posted by Marcus Telcontar
What's the mercy rule and when deos it get triggereD?

"Mercy" is such an alien term in a Red Sox vs Yankees game. Not ten runs. Not a hundred. Not even the Big Apple in flames is enough >D

[CMJ]

Lowe is pitching like he did last year and the year before. Wow....

12 outs guys ....

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah Lowe has been amazing I keep him out there as long as possible.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Marcus Telcontar
What's the mercy rule and when deos it get triggereD?


No such luck. MLB doesn't have one.

I want to see that stadium empty during the 9th inning. I want Yankee fans to suffer the humilation of watching their team be the first to hold a 3-0 series lead, only to lose it in 7 games, and have that final game be as big a blow out as possible.

And the fact that it's the RED SOX that are going to do it to them?

Priceless. Utterly priceless.

[jjwr]

I loved the last time Ortiz was batting you could actually hear a MVP Chant!

[Charley]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
No such luck. MLB doesn't have one.

I want to see that stadium empty during the 9th inning. I want Yankee fans to suffer the humilation of watching their team be the first to hold a 3-0 series lead, only to lose it in 7 games, and have that final game be as big a blow out as possible.

And the fact that it's the RED SOX that are going to do it to them?

Priceless. Utterly priceless.

STOP IT RIGHT NOW. I DO NOT WANT THIS RUINED!

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Charley
STOP IT RIGHT NOW. I DO NOT WANT THIS RUINED!

lol... Boston fans are so funny. :)

I love the entertainment you guys provide.

[Charley]

Seriously. I promised God I'd stop drinking for a whole week if this happens. Do not mess this up for me :verymad

[Jedi Master Carr]

Heh even I am not going to say its over when is the third out in the ninth then it's over. I have seen them blow games it shows a lot about Red Sox fans. Still Lowe has just looked dominant. If keeps pitching like this I say keep in there the whole game.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Charley
Seriously. I promised God I'd stop drinking for a whole week if this happens. Do not mess this up for me :verymad

Well, hell, I'd better start taking this seriously then. I mean, Charley without whiskey for a week? Dang, dude... that's loyalty.

;)



And Pedro is in the game.

Hmmm... Lowe was doing well. Wonder why Franchona made that move.

[CMJ]

I'm gonna throw up.

[Charley]

PEDRO I AM GOING TO KILL YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR DOG TOO.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Why did he take Lowe out?? I can only think they didn't think he had any more left because he was only pitching on 2 1/2 days rest. I don't think Pedro was ready when he came out his velocity was much higher at the end. I think Timilin will be in there for the ninth.

[jjwr]

Still have the 8th to worry about....plenty of good pitchers left, Pedro was a odd choice though.

[jjwr]

9-3! Come on Sox!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Belhorn gave us some insurance that was big mainly because it quieted the crowd big time. I am guessing they will go Timlin and Foulke but that is a guess.

[Charley]

Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter Jeter

Are these people getting PAID each time they say it? HE CAUGHT A FLY BALL OH MY GOD WHAT AN ATHLETE AND PERSONAL HERO.

:shootin

[Jedi Master Carr]

Timlin pitched great out there. Who will be the ninth? I would myers out there to face matsui he has made him look sick all year. And then go from there.

[CMJ]

Three outs fellas.

[jjwr]

Down to 3 outs and a man on....give us a insurance run and lets put this away!

Agreed on Jeter, I'm sick of hearing about him personally.

[Cyrel Annat]

*Passes out the ceremonial forks. Razor-sharp forks.

[Jedi Master Carr]

10-3 now. Huge Sacrifce. Timlin is staying out there. Heck he did look great last inning.

[jjwr]

1 Out to go! Go Sox Go!

[Pierce Tondry]

SOX WIN!!!!

[jjwr]

And the Red Sox Win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CMJ]

I LOVE EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!

:crack :crack :crack :crack :crack :crack :crack

[jjwr]

I LOVE YOU MAN!

[Cyrel Annat]

Ahh...the bitterness must be welling up inside all of those Yankee fans out there. To come so close and then...to CHOKE. And even though I am not an avid Red Sox fan, I am an avid Yankees hater. The cheaters can go home and watch and cry themselves to sleep on their huge pillows.

As an aside, isn't this one of the signs of the apocalypse?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Do you believe in miracles Ha had to say it. I am so happy that was the greatest comeback ever I am so proud of this team. :)

[Morgan Evanar]

Originally posted by CMJ
I LOVE EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!

:crack :crack :crack :crack :crack :crack :crack

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Cyrel Annat
Ahh...the bitterness must be welling up inside all of those Yankee fans out there. To come so close and then...to CHOKE. And even though I am not an avid Red Sox fan, I am an avid Yankees hater. The cheaters can go home and watch and cry themselves to sleep on their huge pillows.


Quoting for emphasis, because this is essentially how I feel. If the Cubs can't make it to the playoffs and finally have a chance at a World Series, then it might as well be Boston. And watching the Yankees suffer the worst collapse in post-season history, at the hands of their arch-rivals.... it doesn't get any better.

On a side note, someone may want to check to see if Jedieb is still alive.

;)

[CMJ]

Eb is alive. He told me to give my regards to the board. :)

Class guy.

[Cyrel Annat]

Originally posted by CMJ
Eb is alive. He told me to give my regards to the board. :)

Class guy.

Better send him a box of Puffs. ;)

[Figrin D'an]

All of Boston is going to have a hangover in the morning. :)

[Charley]

Originally posted by CMJ
I LOVE EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!

:crack :crack :crack :crack :crack :crack :crack

Now I have to schedule a week to stop drinking. Thank you God!

[Jedi Master Carr]

I bet there will be a lot of people calling in sick tomorrow.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by Pierce Tondry
SOX WIN!!!!


Originally posted by CMJ
I LOVE EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!

:crack :crack :crack :crack :crack :crack :crack


Originally posted by jjwr
And the Red Sox Win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Originally posted by Cyrel Annat
As an aside, isn't this one of the signs of the apocalypse?

Ditto to all!!

Amazing. They announced it at the hockey game we were at and the crowd went WILD. :D

[JMK]

It's too bad I couldn't be online last night to join in, but boy was my apartment rocking last night!
That was THE greatest sports come back of all time, against the greatest odds. Unbelievable, this one will be remembered for the rest of time. Unreal. This may never happen again. I can't even begin to put this win in to historical context, it's HUGE, it changes the landscape of baseball. The Sox have finally beaten the Yankees. Hopefully that Spankee swagger is gone for a long time.
Hell, maybe a new curse can be born: the A-Rod curse. Once he left Seattle they turned into a power, when he left Texas they immediately had their best season in years. He shows up in New York and they don't even reach the world series. Beautiful. I'm so glad that bush league punk was exposed for what he is. It was always rumored that he was a little bit of a cry baby, and now we know it. To the Yankees credit though, Torre was outstanding in the post game.

As an Expos fan, I'm SO glad for Francona, and especially happy for Cabrera, he was my favorite player when he was here, I was sad to see him go, but the Sox are the one team I wanted him to go to....though I do feel a little bad for Vasquez...nah, screw that, he left here for the fat contract, burn in hell Yankee scum! >D

What could be potentially the best part about this win?

Watching King Georgie go INSANE and chop everyone's head off and trade as many folks as he can! I can imagine him sulking right now!

[Doc Milo]

I'd like to extend my congratulations to the Red Sox and their fans. I have no idea who to root for in the World Series. On the one hand ... it's the Red Sox; on the other hand ... it's the NL! I don't like Houston -- mainly because of Clemens ... (although, admittedly, his decision to come back has to do with the shameful way the Yankees brass treated Andy Pettitte...) But to me, Clemens was always a Red Sox, even when he was a Yankee. St. Louis ... I guess I might be able to get behind them....

I have rooted for the Sox one time that I can remember -- when the played the Mets in the World Series in 1986. Back then, to me, the rivalry with the Sox was really something I was just told about; experiencing it didn't come until both teams were actually good! And I hated the Mets -- I was a Yankees fan, and we had some friends who were Mets fans, and that rivalry was more real to me. So, back then, I rooted for the Sox in the WS, only to see the curse live on.

Can I bring myself to root for them again, knowing to do so would mean the end of the Curse of the Bambino? (You see, the curse lives on until there is a World Series Title that doesn't say 1918 on it hanging in Fenway.)

Right now, my emotions are too raw to make that decision. I'll let you know who I'm pulling for on Saturday....

But, sincerely, the Red Sox deserved to win after the performance they put up the last four games. They showed a lot of heart. Congrats to all of you Sox fans...

[darth_mcbain]

I too couldn't be online last night - family stuff - but man - WHAT A GAME. I can't believe the Sox did it. They really deserve a lot of respect. They came back from 0-3 and beat the Yanks on their own turf to go onto the series. Technically this doesn't break the curse yet, but it sure goes a long way... The Sox have toppled the evil Empire - Yub Yub!!! As a longtime Mets fan, I have never liked the Yankees and am glad to see the Sox take them out. I have to say, though, that for the most part I do like a lot of the Yankees players, I just really dislike the franchise and I hate Steinbrenner...

Damon, Lowe, Schilling, Ortiz - all awesome... Good job to the whole team.

EB - my condolences... Chin up, man, there will always be next year...

Doc - you were rooting for the Sox back in '86 eh? I was SO going for the Mets back then... :) I was actually comparing this series with that one - they will both live in my memory for a long while...

[jjwr]

Agreed the Curse isn't totally broken yet, but it has a lot less to do with the Yankee's now. The Yankee's part in the Curse is over, the Sox buried that ghost at Yankee' stadium last night, now they just need to bury their own demons and put this one away.

[JMK]

I wonder if the really flamboyant Yankees fans will shut up now, or will they still taunt Sox fans...do they have the room to talk any more now that the Sox have knocked them off in the most embarassing fashion imaginable? If this Sox/Yanks series was a movie, it would be completely panned for being too much of a fantasy.

[CMJ]

Doc, you're a class act. Thanks for your words. I'll understand if you can't bring yourself to root for us, believe me. :)

I can't wait for Saturday. We got A monkey off our back...now time to end the whole curse.

[Master Yoghurt]

The way they turned this around demands respect. So much heart and fighting spirit. It allmost makes me concider becoming a Red Sox fan :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah Doc you are a class guy in my book :) The Sox rotation is now set it is going to be Wakefield, Schilling, Martinez, Lowe. I like that rotation one Schilling would go 2-6, Martinez 3-7 if necessary. Also keeps Schilling out a NL park I can't see him hitting right now.

[Jedieb]

I've spent most of my online time during the collapse on IM with CMJ. Can't pace, scream, cry, and type in 2 different places at once.:x

First time I've had a chance to get online today, the wife is in NC on business and I've had the 3 kids to myself. The 3 useless pieces of bait I offered to the Devil to spare the Yankees the worst humiliation in their history to no avail. Worthless kids. But it gets better. Here's my gift to you Sox fans:


Tonight, if the Yankees lose, then I won't be able to make it into work tomorrow. {laughter} For one thing, I don't think I'll be able to make bail before noon. {laughter} Tomorrow, please don't make eye contact with me. I just don't' like people seeing me cry. {laughter}

Yeah, I had them in stiches at the faculty meeting yesterday. I brought the house down and ended the meeting with my announcement. And this morning I found a pair of Red Socks in my mail box. Brutal, but truly inspired. I taped them up outside my classroom door to bring the perpertrator out in the open. When he came to retrieve them I began pummeling him with an overhead projector. Well, I dreamed of pummeling him with an overhead projector............... Great guy, wished him luck and we both had a great laugh. He got a kick out of my taping them up on the wall.

By far, this was the GREATEST comeback in MLB playoff history. Nothing else comes close. Ortiz and Schilling could probably declare themselves rulers of Boston and demand virgin sacrifices from prominent Boston citizens without meeting any resistance. This collapse will haunt the Yanks for years and keep Boston fans warm and cozy for decades. They could lose the WS, yet still go to bed and dream of what just happened. There's no defense for what the Yankees did. The drought of the 80's and early 90's may well be returning. And there's ONE man responsible. This isn't the first time we've found ourselves down this road before. It's happened before and I witnessed all of it. Here's a brilliant article summing up what's happened to NY these last few seasons.

COMMENTARY
By Mike Celizic
NBCSports.com contributor
Updated: 5:01 p.m. ET Oct. 21, 2004

If George Steinbrenner is being honest when he says the only thing he wants is for the Yankees to win the World Series, I know how he can achieve that goal: Leave.

Don’t just get out of the way or pretend you’re going to let your baseball people run your baseball team. Leave entirely. Quit. Retire. Go to Vanuatu or Moorea, pull up a palm tree, pour yourself a nice refreshing drink with an umbrella in it, gawk at the topless women on the beach, and leave the Yankees alone.

No phone calls to Brian Cashman or whoever you name general manager after you get done eviscerating the man who followed your architectural renderings in building the current pinstriped monument to excess. No demands to get this or that aging superstar with a contract the size of gross national product of Ecuador. No screaming at the hirelings every time the Yankees lose two in a row. No contact at all.

If Steinbrenner really, truly desires Yankee championships, that’s what he’ll do. It is abundantly clear now, after the humiliation in the Bronx, that the current edition of the Bronx Bunglers is built on the template of the team that went 17 years — from 1979-95 — without a World Series title. That’s the Yankees' longest championship drought since they ascended to the top of the game after Boston’s much-lamented sale of Babe Ruth to New York lo these 86 years ago.

Steinbrenner built those overpriced and underachieving teams that were long on soap-opera drama and short on results. They were great — on paper. Rickey Henderson, Don Mattingly, Dave Winfield, Dave Righetti. But they never won anything, one reason being they had starting pitching staffs that included names like Joe Cowley, Ed Whitson, Dennis Rasmussen, Rick Rhoden, and Richard Dotson.

No matter how bad the Yankees were — and they would get very, very bad — Steinbrenner kept buying players — remember Steve Kemp? — who were big on stats and short on winning.

The Boss’s problem was that after he bought the Yankees in 1972 for $10 million from CBS, he collected the first batch of big-name free agents, including Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson, and won three pennants and two World Series in three years, from 1976-78. That experience convinced him that he knew how to build a baseball team, and his three decades of bumbling since haven’t dissuaded him from his opinion that he’s a genius.

If Steinbrenner were honest with himself, he’d realize his team returned to prominence in the mid-1990s only when he was on baseball’s suspended list and banned from any contact with the team. Left to their own devices, executives like Gene Michael identified kids with potential in the farm system and raised to maturity and success: Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, and Andy Pettitte, the core of the dynasty that ended in Arizona in 2001.

They added players like Paul O’Neill, Wade Boggs, Scott Brosius and Tino Martinez. The veteran pitchers they mixed in were of the caliber of David Wells, David Cone and Dwight Gooden.

If Steinbrenner had been around while that team was being built, Bernie Williams, who took several years to find himself as a player, would have been shipped out for somebody making more money than he deserved. Andy Pettitte would not have survived, just as Al Leiter and Greg Maddux were given away during those wonderful 1980s that Steinbrenner presided over. Rivera may not have made the big club.

The team that won four World Series, a team with few superstars but a lot of players who knew how to win, would never have existed and the title drought would have continued.

When Steinbrenner came back, he let the team alone as long as it was winning, but he couldn’t help himself. When the Yankees lost in 2001, he got Jason Giambi. He low-balled Andy Pettitte a year ago. He spent millions on Jose Contreras, a Cuban pitcher unproven in the major leagues, because the Red Sox wanted the stiff, too. And now he’s simply tearing the team apart, thinking that there’s nothing that can’t be cured by spending more money and screaming more loudly at the help.

Steinbrenner is as good at honest introspection as George W. Bush. If things don’t work out right, it’s not because it wasn’t a good plan or the right thing to do, but because somebody else failed down the line. So he goes right on replacing players like Martinez, solid ballplayers, with guys like Jason Giambi, who has never performed in New York as he did in Oakland.

Look at what he got for his money this year. A-Rod went from the best player in baseball to the fifth-best third baseman in the game. Hideki Matsui and Gary Sheffield had excellent regular seasons and, like A-Rod, great playoffs — until the games that made the difference between winning and losing. Then, they disappeared.

Then there’s Kenny Lofton, a superfluous outfielder who came with a big contract, but hardly played in October. Steinbrenner spent $182 million on players last season, which is about $50 million more than Boston, which is what the entire Twins’ team makes. But for all that money, the best he could do for starting pitchers to replace Pettitte, Wells and Roger Clemens was Kevin Brown and Javier Vazquez, the guys who lost the ALCS. The most expensive team in the history of U.S. sports didn’t have a single left-handed starter in a ballpark built for that species. It didn’t have a reliable left-handed reliever.

If Steinbrenner bought a successful racing team, he’d take the best car in the field and, in an effort to make it really, really swell, fit it with spinner hubs, drink holders and 12-speaker stereos. Everybody would look at it in the pits and ooh and aah over how gaudy it was, but it wouldn’t win any races, because it’s loaded with high-priced gimmickry it doesn’t need.

Steinbrenner likes to be the man who restored the greatness of the Yankees. He did nothing of the sort. He hit the lottery when he was the first to go in for free agents, but he got the very best of the crop — proven winners, before the idea took hold and it became necessary to actually think about how players would fit into the team and how they would perform in New York.

It worked for a few years and ended in 1981, when Winfield came in and Reggie Jackson started to go out and the Yanks blew a 2-0 lead in the Series to lose in six to the Dodgers. Since then, the only time the Yankees have been successful is when Steinbrenner was forbidden to have anything to do with them.

He’s got grand schemes for next year. You can rely on that. One probably involves trading for Randy Johnson, a great left-handed pitcher, but one who’s 41 years old. He’ll probably buy Carlos Beltran, a great player, which will make Bernie Williams — a great Yankee — superfluous. But he’ll still be stuck with Lofton and Giambi and Sheffield. He’ll still be paying bushels of money to A-Rod for something considerably less than what he thought he’d get for that money. His farm system will be barren because he’s given away his prospects to get people who can’t win. He’ll still be stuck with Kevin Brown and he still has no depth in his starting pitching.

The Marlins proved you don’t need to spend $182 million to win. The Red Sox spotted the Yankees the price of the Twins, and did to New York what had never been done before.

This is what George hath wrought — high-priced failure. His management hasn’t resulted in excellence, it’s resulted in failure. He has no idea of what a team is or how to build one.

If he really wants to win, he’d admit that. And then he’d fire himself and give the team back to people who know how to run it.

Way to go Emperor Steinbrenner. :cry

Congratulations Sox fans, the Curse is officially over. I'm familiar with the joy you're experiencing and it's been a long time coming. We now have a collapse as epic and tragic as any you've ever endured. It will probably go down as the greatest ever. We now have a taste of what it means to be Sox fans. Good luck. I hope Houston makes it to the WS and the result mirrors the Presidential race. Some good must come of this. GO SOX AND KERRY!!!

But anyone who thinks Jeter still isn't great is clueless. :cool :crack

[Figrin D'an]

Don't know how many people saw this, but the blood on Schilling's sock in Game 6 is finally explained.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=545&ncid=757&e=10&u=/ap/20041020/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bba_alcs_schilling


It's just kind of amusing, in that it adds another dimension to just how far the Red Sox and their fans will go to finally win it all.

[jjwr]

And the Cardinals just clinched...

Gonna be a tough series for the Sox, but if they can beat the Yankee's, Angels I don't see why they can't beat the Cardinals.

[CMJ]

Cardinals are AWESOME defensively. We'll need alot of Homeruns I think.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't like the Cardinals pitching. Supan has been horrible in the American League parks. He will get shelled by Boston. I am not high on Marquis either. And Morris is erratic. I think they have a flaw like the Yankees did and Boston will try to exploit that. Oh and Jedieb I agree with you. Steinbrenner has ruined that team. The guy is a jerk he is like Al Davis he needs to get out of the way.

[JMK]

I think the Cards are better at fundamentals than the Sox are, and by far. Do you think the Sox could ever execute a suicide squeeze the way the Cards did? I really doubt it, and we saw compelling evidence of it when Damon and the guy before him (I forget, it may have been Bellhorn) could not bunt the ball on the ground to move a runner over. It was sad to watch the 2 best teams in the AL not able to play small ball. I think everything in this series is slanted the Cards way, except starting pitching and obviously (thanks to the All-Star game) home field advantage, and sadly, I think Francona is out of his league with LaRussa. Still, ya gotta believe! Go Sox!

[jjwr]

It was Sox vs Yanks though, a lot of typical stuff went out the window.

Sox had a much better series against the Angels and played much smarter ball all the way around. With the Yankee's behind them I'm sure they'll be fine in this series.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well small ball won't work in an American league park. Fenway is more suited for hitting not that. I think Boston has the better overall offense in Fenway which will be a huge adventage and could end up being the difference in the series.

[JMK]

I don't feel like comparing stats, but I'd like to think that the Cardinals offense is just as potent as Boston's, if not more. Boston's 1-5, in general, aren't quite as lethal as St. Louis' if you ask me.

Damon vs Womack/Renteria: advantage Boston
Bellhorn/Cabrera vs Walker: advantage St. Louis
Ramirez vs Pujols: yikes that's close, but I'd take Pujols the way he's going now.
Rolen vs Ortiz: Another close one, they're both hot, I go with Ortiz
Varitek/Millar vs Edmonds: Edmonds in a heartbeat.

the rest of the order for each time is close, the whole matchup scenario is close, but I think the Cards are a more versatile team capable of playing small ball or long ball with anyone.

All that being said, I still like Boston in 6. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think Boston's bottom is better 6-9 is more potent. Boston's pitching is where they have the advantage. St. Louis starters just don't scare me. Morris is hurt. Suppan has been eaten alive by AL hitting in the past. Marquis has looked bad in the postseason and Williams isn't a great picture either. That is why Boston will win. As the old adage goes. Pitching wins championships.

[JMK]

The Cardinals may get Cris Carpenter back though. He could be a factor. Pitching is the most important factor for sure, but the Cardinals didn't get this far for no reason. ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

They say Carpenter is done for the year. He can't come back.

[Doc Milo]

Jedieb: I disagree with you on one thing you said: That the Curse is officially over. I don't think that is the case. The Curse was really never about the Yankees/Red Sox match-ups; although it manifested itself in those match-ups most of the time, and it is more magnified because Ruth was sold to the Yankees. The Curse was about the Red Sox not winning a World Series since selling Babe Ruth. If the ball had not gone under Buckner's legs in 1986, the Curse would have been over then -- and that series had nothing to do with the Yankees.

So, no, the Curse is not officially over ... not until the Red Sox have a World Championship post-1918.

As for the World Series ... I'm officially going for the Cards. Sorry guys. I just can't bring myself to go for the Sox. Had they been playing Houston, that might have been a different story ... might have made the decision more difficult on who I would pull for, but since they're playing the Cards ... I'm pulling for them.

But, if it's any consolation, even though I'm pulling for the Cards, I think the Red Sox will probably win. (And I think the Card have a better over-all team than the Sox. I thought the Cards had the best team of the 8 that entered the playoffs... But ... I think the winds are blowing in Boston's direction this year....)

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Doc Milo
If the ball had not gone under Buckner's legs in 1986, the Curse would have been over then -- and that series had nothing to do with the Yankees.

He gets so much crap, byt the Sox had already given up the lead in Game 6 when Buckner blew that play. We'd have lost in extra innings anyways....after blowing the lead in the 9th like that .

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah it's Calvin Schiladri's (sp) fault. And Bob Stanley. Calvin walked the bases loaded. And Stanley threw the wild pitch.

[CMJ]

Is Ortiz human? Good lord. :D

[jjwr]

Ortiz is a monster! That right there justifies why the guy is playing 1st place in games 3-5

Also...WTF is up with Manny! Right now we're seeing the difference between Manny & Ortiz, Ortiz is clutch, Manny is great in the regular season but thats about it. Trade him when you get the chance Sox!

[jjwr]

Ugh, bases loaded and they don't get a run in, they can't keep doing that!

4-2 in the 3rd, this could be a 11-9 game :)

[CMJ]

Put three more across...7-2. Left the bases loaded again. The Cards are smart and walking Ortiz.

[jjwr]

9-7 in the 7th....soon as I post my above comment about Manny he drives in a run, 3 for 5 with 2 RBI, not bad! Add in a HR and he'd be having a monster game!

[CMJ]

Let's see if we can hold our current 11-9 lead....

Clutch HR by Bellhorn.

[CMJ]

Foulke holds down the fort in the ninth. One win down...3 to go.:crack

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yep great game. Got nervous when Manny made those errors. Still, when they can win a game like that you are very grateful.

[jjwr]

Funny, in my above post I called that it would be a 11-9 game :)

Scary defense by Manny, he finally got some runs in though!

Curt goes tonight! If they can go up 2-0.....

[Jedi Master Carr]

That be huge, especially with Pedro going in Game 3. Of course they were up 2-0 in 86.

[darth_mcbain]

Big triple by Varitek puts the Sox up by 2 in the first... Go SOX!!!

[Jedi Master Carr]

4-1 though those errors are getting on my nerves. Two that inning. 4 for the game.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Good inning by Embre. 6-1 now. I hope they score more runs so they can save Foulke.

[CMJ]

Committing 8 errors in the first 2 games and yet it appears we'll win both. Amazing... Great clutch hitting tonight by Varitek, Bellhorn and Cabrera. All our runs were scored with 2 outs.

Up 6-2 in the bottom of the 8th. Three outs away....

[Pierce Tondry]

Boo-freaking-yah. Sox take the game 6-2, and lead the Series 2-0.

Two more wins and the Curse of the Bambino is ended.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yep Great game. Still as Sox fans know we have been down this road before. They were up 2-0 in 86 (both games were played in Shea). However right now I am not thinking about that too much.

[CMJ]

Martinez, Lowe, Arroyo, Wakefield, Martinez....

I'm cautiously optimistic. Let's steal Game 3 - then hope St. Louis folds. If Lowe pitches like he did in Game 7.....

Two games down.....2 to go. :crack :crack

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is what I am hoping. So you don't think Schilling pitches again?

[Pierce Tondry]

Ironically, though, things feel pretty anticlimactic at the moment. I think whether or not they take home the series, the Sox beating the Yankees was the highlight of this year's post-season.

It is still too soon to know that, though. :)

[CMJ]

I'm not sure we can risk throwing Curt out again. Like Figrin and I discussed doctors aren't sure how many times they can do this "emergency" procedure. He could be permanently damaged.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
That is what I am hoping. So you don't think Schilling pitches again?

I wouldn't count on it. The doctors may pull the plug on him after tonight, because he was experiencing a fair amount of pain in his ankle before his start. He pitched great, but if doing the sutchering procedure again could mean damage to his tendon, they won't risk it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well we will have to see I wouldn't count him out coming back even if it is just for two innings in relief.

[Charley]

Oh man...please bring your A-Game tuesday, Pedro >_<

[JMK]

For the Sox to make all those errors and not have it hurt them is amazing. Over a year ago I said here that Manny is a terrible outfielder, and though the numbers didn't really show it, he is brutal. Pedro better be on for game 3. Cabrera aside, that infield is awful. Now add Ortiz in at 3rd base and there's some trouble brewing methinks. The outfield is no great shakes either, Damon has range, but no arm. Nixon is pretty good, but there's also Manny. I'm not sure quite how the Sox are getting this far, but they are, and that's fine with me. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think their defense is fine. Actually Miller is a very good definsive 3rd baseman. He has played over there great all year. And has committed very few errors. Not sure what happened to him last night. Maybe he was nervous or tried to do too much with Schilling on the mound. Manny is not bad. The other night he just slipped on the grass. I have actually seen him play better this year overall. Bellhorn is okay, doesn't have a lot or range unfortently but he is usually sound. The defense is very good at the end of games when Reese and Doug M (can't spell his last name :p) come in. Then they have three gold glovers on the infield.

[Charley]

Miller needs to learn to call Veritek off, and to play the bunt more aggressively. That being said, I don't think he's doing the team a disservice whatsoever. Hell, the guy was the AL batting champion last year. If you've got guys who play decent field ball and can hit their fair share, then you've got a good player. In that respect, I think Boston's players do very well.

[JMK]

You're right, their offense makes up for their shortcomings on defense.

Manny plays most of his left field in front of the monster, he has a lot less ground to cover than most other left fielders in baseball. Sure he slipped the other day, but I've seen him bobble 2 or 3 balls out there now, just simple balls that got through the infield that he had to scoop up and throw, but his bobbling gave an extra base. There was also that play vs the Yankees where he didn't judge the ball properly and it bounced right through him to the wall.

Millar may have been ok at third all year, but that doesn't count in the WS. He's got to continue to be that good. Fortunately for him there were a couple of line drives hit right at him that allowed to make an inning ending play, otherwise he could be wearing some goat horns right now.

Ortiz at first really scares me though.

I know we're all mostly Sox fans here now, and it works to our advantage, but has anyone else noticed how the wild card winner in the AL has home field advantage in the WS against the best team in baseball? Does that seem fair to anyone? I know I know, that's the rules they decided to go with...but that doesn't make them good rules. In fact I think that rule sucks hard.

[Charley]

Seems fair to me, with the AL winning the All Star game. That more or less keeps it out of the hands of both teams.

[CMJ]

It's just as fair as it used to be with the AL and NL switching Homefield every other year. Remember the Wild Card Marlins had homefield against the "best record in baseball" Indians a few years ago.....

[JMK]

Ok, then why do they bother playing a 162 game schedule? Why keep track of home and away records if they mean nothing? If you are the best team in baseball, you deserve a reward for being that when it counts.

[Figrin D'an]

Using the All-Star Game to decide homefield advantage was a lame idea from the very beginning, perhaps even more lame than having homefield alternate leagues from year to year. Homefield in the WS needs to be given to the team with the better record. Period. Homefield for the rest of the playoffs is decided via record/seeding... why should the Series be any different?

[Jedieb]

Only MLB can screw up something that seems to be so obvious. BEST RECORD = HOME FIELD = COMMON SENSE

Cards are 6-0 at home in the playoffs but they're facing a must win. They've got to win or they're out. No one blows a 3-0 lead. Well, almost no one. :cry

[Charley]

Originally posted by Jedieb
No one blows a 3-0 lead. Well, almost no one. :cry

:)

[CMJ]

I'm not saying it's "fair", but it's no more arbitrary than when the leagues used to rotate HF in the Series. Heck, before their were 3 divisions in each league(and the Wild Card) - HF used to change in the LCS series' every other year too.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think it will be changed one day. But I don't think the Cardinals should use that as a complaint right now.

[JMK]

They aren't using it as a complaint, but look at it this way: Roger stank in the All Star game, and though the Cardinals beat the Astros in the NLCS, Roger still gave homefield to the Sox. :p

[jjwr]

Agreed, the system is whacked.

It should go to the team with the best record ala NBA playoffs. Having it determined by the All-Start game is stupid.

[JMK]

If they're not going to use a system that makes sense, then maybe they go at it like the NFL does and move the WS to different MLB parks. :p

You wanna talk arbitrary? Let's watch the traditionalists riot over that one! :lol

[darth_mcbain]

Man... terrible baserunning by Suppan. He should have run home immediately on that play - the Sox would have probably conceded that one anyway...

As much as I want the Sox to win, you hate to see such a brainless play by the Cards...

[Charley]

I love and I hate Pedro Martinez. At the same time.

[Figrin D'an]

That baserunning blunder is so uncharacteristic of a Tony LaRussa coached team, even for a pitcher. The Cardinals have been a bare shadow of themselves thusfar in this series... pitching has been suspect, hitting has vanished, and some silly mistakes like that one. For Pedro to look as shaky as he did early on and still have allowed no runs to cross the plate is remarkable.

[CMJ]

Pedro was outstanding thru 7. Let's get these last 6 outs.

[Charley]

Originally posted by CMJ
Pedro was outstanding thru 7. Let's get these last 6 outs.

I've forgiven him of his first inning sins.

[Figrin D'an]

Not to take away from Boston's pitching, which has been outstanding since that 19-8 blowout at the hands of the Yankess in ALCS Game 3, but what has happened to the St. Louis lineup? This was the most dangerous lineup in baseball for the second half of the season, and they have been completely pedestrian through the first three games of the WS.

On a side note... will someone please get Cabrera a new batting helmet? I mean, the thing looks like something is growing on it. :x

[Pierce Tondry]

Booyah. Sox lead the series with a nice hefty 3-0 edge.

[CMJ]

It's a final. Three games down...one to go.....

:crack :crack :crack

[Pierce Tondry]

Heh, a friend of mine wants the Sox to lose until the games go back to Fenway, so the Sox can break the curse on home turf. :)

[Charley]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
On a side note... will someone please get Cabrera a new batting helmet? I mean, the thing looks like something is growing on it. :x

There is...pine tar :)


Originally posted by Pierce Tondry
Heh, a friend of mine wants the Sox to lose until the games go back to Fenway, so the Sox can break the curse on home turf. :)

I considered this, but my heart wouldn't survive the stress.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Same here, lets get the thing over with. Pedro pitched a heck of game one of the most memorable of his career.

[JMK]

It's been a long time coming for Sox fans, but how the hell can you tempt fate by wanting them to lose the next 2 and win it at Fenway? Sure that would be nice, great even, but damn why play with fire when you're so close? Recent history just taught us a valuable lesson: Don't let a team get up when you have them down. The Sox would be better off winning this as soon as possible.

As for last night's game, I can't believe how ineffective the Cards hitters have become. Let's hope Lowe has another performance like he did in game 7 vs the Yankees.

[darth_mcbain]

If the Sox lose this series, then I might seriously start believing that the ghost of the Babe is floating around out there cursing them... They've looked great so far, I'd be surprised if this goes past game 4...

And yeah, it would be great if they could win it in Fenway, but a win's a win - I agree with you JMK, don't play with fire - just win it.

[CMJ]

The Sports Guy alerted his readers to this thread that was started during the Yankees Series. Pretty emotional stuff...makes you choke up. I'll eventually read all the pages.

http://p086.ezboard.com/fsonsofsamhornbostonredsox.showMessage?topicID=142 79.topic

[Jedieb]

Ha, the Cards have the Sox right where they want them, 0-3! :cry

I think it's simply amazing that the Sox have shut down Edmonds, Pujols, and Roland. Combined, I think they have only 1 or 2 hits so far. Unreal. Oh, and Suppan runs the bases like a girl. >_<

[darth_mcbain]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Oh, and Suppan runs the bases like a girl. >_<

I have to say that was pretty painful to watch. He totally looked like a deer caught in the headlights and had no idea what to do... I feel for him...

Although it probably wouldn't have altered the outcome of the game, it makes you wonder - making a mistake like that might have thrown him off his game, which might have been a contributing factor in his allowing the Sox runs, which might have thrown the whole team's morale... A lot of coulda shoulda woulda, but you never know...

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Game 4 tonight, at the same time as a lunar eclipse? Coincidence? I think not.

[darth_mcbain]

3-0 Red Sox... Maybe it's a bit premature to break out the brooms - but it's looking mighty good for the Sox!!! :)

[jjwr]

6th inning...still 3-0, Damon on third though.

Boston is feeling it, the breaking of the curse is in their grasp.

On another note if the Sox win tonight by a score 3-1 I win the local office pool of $400! So I'm hoping Sox stay where they are the Cards score a meaningless run late :)

[James Prent]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/gameTrax?gameId=241027124&refreshRate=60 this is addicting... I better get back to work. ^_^;

[jjwr]

Bases loaded with no outs in the 8th, this could be ballgame!

Course this will probably doom my pool chances but thats ok too.

[jjwr]

Ok 6 outs away!

[jjwr]

5 outs!

[jjwr]

4 Outs!

[Figrin D'an]

3 outs

[jjwr]

2 Outs to go!

[jjwr]

1 out to go!

[jjwr]

ITS OVER! SOX WIN SOX WIN!

[Pierce Tondry]

WOOO SOX WIN!

[Figrin D'an]

The Curse is no more.

Congrats to the Red Sox and their fans. As a Cubs fan, I know the heartache, and this has actually given me hope for my team.

[Jedieb]

Truly a remarkable and DOMINATING run. Congrats Sox fans. The Curse is officially OVER. Next year, fate brings you THE CHICAGO CUBS, WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

[CMJ]

:crack :crack :crack :crack :crack :crack :crack :crack

This is for all the elderly Sox fans...the 70+ set. I love everyone.

[darth_mcbain]

Congrats to the Sox - well deserved... The curse is broken!!!

[Jedi Master Carr]

YES finally. It will be a party in Boston tonight. Yes this was an amazing team 8 straight wins that is a record in the postseason.

[Morgan Evanar]

Bang bang bang. Its dead.

[Figrin D'an]

Here's some things to reflect upon. Not only is the 86 years of drought over, but how about the manner in which it was done?

- First team to ever overcome a 0-3 series deficit in a 7 game postseason series and win.

- Set the record for most consecutive post season victories with 8 (4 in ALCS, 4 in World Series).

- Embarrased the Yankees, their arch-rival, in the perhaps the best (or worst, if your a Yankees fan) way possible.

- Swept the World Series against the Cardinals, the team with the best regular season record by shutting down perhaps the most potent offense in the league.


wow... 'nuff said.



http://www.thegjo.com/grave.gif

[darth_mcbain]

Yeah - EB, wouldn't that be something for the Cubbies to go all the way next year!!! :)

[Charley]

OH MY GOD!!!! I LOVE ALL OF YOU!!! THIS IS THE GREATEST BASEBALL MINE EYES HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!

[JMK]

Unfreaking believable! That's got to be the greatest post season run in history. Congrats to all Sox fans & players, both current and former! :crack

[Doc Milo]

Congrats Sox fans. The curse is over.

Have your day in the sun ... once every 86 years, though, is enough for me!

[Jedi Master Carr]

LoL I think it will happen again before that long. Well now I guess the curse nonsense will turn to these teams
Chicago Cubs 96 years
Chicago White Sox 87 years
Cleveland Indians 56 years
San Francisco Giants 50 years
Texas Rangers 43 years
Houston Astros 42 years

Not sure which one of these six teams will be first. The Cubs have the best chance with the pitching they got. If they can stay healthy.

[Charley]

If they can keep their "fans" from reaching into the ivy

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL true.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Just found out that this was the 100th WS. It is funny that the Sox won the first and the 100th.

[JMK]

With the lunar eclipse last night, you knew something weird was going to happen. Either the Red Sox win, or they begin a downward spiral and the curse continues. Thank God it was the former!

[Jedieb]

- Embarrased the Yankees, their arch-rival, in the perhaps the best (or worst, if your a Yankees fan) way possible.
Oh, definitely the WORST collapse ever. Definitely...... :cry

[JMK]

I heard a journalist from New York on ESPN radio yesterday saying that baseball fans in New York are walking around like zombies, totally unable to wrap their minds around what just happened.

I love it! :lol

[Figrin D'an]

The part that is really going to stick like a thorn in the sides of Yankees fans is Steinbrenner's boys have to go to Fenway for Opening Day in '05, and they'll get to watch live as the Red Sox unveil their 2004 World Series banner.

For Red Sox fans, this has to be the ultimate in karma exacting revenge on their behalf.

[CMJ]

Year Two Thousand

*clap, clap, clap, clap, clap*

Year Two Thousand

*clap, clap, clap, clap, clap*

Year Two Thousand

*clap, clap, clap, clap, clap*




;)

[JMK]

It's going to be great.

This will only escalate the hatred in the rivalry. If the Yankees ever get back to beating the Sox they are going to pile on SO badly it will be brutal. The stakes will be raised each time these 2 meet from now on.

Sox fans have no more shame, and Yanks fans NEED to feel superior to Sox fans.

[Jedieb]

Luckily, I won't have to deal with this crap for 86 years. Curse you all! :shootin

[CMJ]

I'm sure we didn't think we'd go 86 years without a title in 1922 either Eb. ;)

[Charley]

IIRC, the Sox leading up to the beginning of the curse had won five of the last ten World Series titles.

To see a century-long Yankee drought would be so sexy

[CMJ]

I think it was 5 of 15.

[Jedieb]

There's no way we'll wait until 2086 before we win again. Steinbrenner will die. EVENTUALLY!

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Jedieb
There's no way we'll wait until 2086 before we win again. Steinbrenner will die. EVENTUALLY!

The blind optimism of a Yankees fan. >D

[jjwr]

LOL...good point Jedieb.

Though with luck he'll step down before then and let the baseball people build a actual team again rather than what he's been trying to push out there.

[Figrin D'an]

The funny thing is, Steinbrenner is falling back into the same pattern he had in his earlier days as the Yankees owner. Win championships with pitching and defense, then become enamored with big name power hitters, sign a bunch of them and neglect the pitching staff. One would think he would have learned his lesson by now. Laughably though, he'll probably end up going after Carlos Beltran, and once again fail to sign a solid pitcher.

[jjwr]

Agreed, I can't wait to see what he does this off-season :)

Beltran is just about a lock, and considering he only has A-Rod, Matsui and Sheffield I can understand why he would need another huge-bat...

[Charley]

Originally posted by Jedieb
There's no way we'll wait until 2086 before we win again. Steinbrenner will die. EVENTUALLY!

I'm pretty sure Steinbrenner has enough money to afford the life-extending technologies that Joe Paterno is using. Cybernetics and the blood of the innocent, etc.

[Jedieb]

There just aren't any big name pitchers out there. Certainly nothing of Schilling's caliber. Even if they go after Randy Johnson, it's just another big contract, free agent, aging superstar. Who knows what he's got left.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Isn't Zito a Free Agent? The best free Agent picture is Pavano from Florida but he has said he refuses to go to New York. He would like to play for Boston (he is from there) but I think they would only sign him if they don't resign Pedro or Lowe.

[Jedieb]

Both those guys have free agent bust written all over them. I don't feel good about either one of them.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Pavano is a really good picture, IMO. Zito is not a FA although Oakland might unload his contract. I guess a lot depends on what Pedro and Lowe do. If they resign with Boston kinds of weakens the field.

[jjwr]

I keep reading that the Sox are going to go after Pavano and probably let Lowe go.

As for the A's pitchers, a few people have said that Oakland will probably dangle all 3 of their big 3 and see what they get for a offer and trade one of them.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That makes sense for Oakland. Honestly I take Pavano over Lowe. Lowe can be a head case he is very irratic. If one bad thing goes wrong in a game he gets lite up like a christmas tree. I think they will try to resign Pedro. Although, I hate to say it think he might be better off finishing his career on the West coast like the Dodgers, but he still might stay in boston.

[JMK]

Pavano has finally blossomed in to the pitcher that the Expos hoped he would be when we traded Pedro for him back in '97. Nice to see our GM wasn't wrong about him.

[Jedieb]

Holy crap, how many former Expos are now world beaters, 58? You poor bastard. :cry

[JMK]

I'm very used to it now. Isn't that they way it's supposed to go in baseball?

[JMK]

Has anyone been paying attention to the Washington move?

This has all the makings of another patented Bud Selig disaster.

MLB wanted Washington to build them a stadium, which they apparently were sure they were going to get, now it seems it's less than sure that a publicly funded stadium will be built.
I hope this blows up in their face.


Vote on Expos ball park for Washington delayed again



posted November 9 @ 18:56, EST

WASHINGTON (AP) - The District of Columbia Council delayed a vote on funding a new ball park for the Expos, with council chair Linda Cropp proposing another new plan Tuesday.

Last week, Cropp said the new ball park should be adjacent to RFK Stadium rather than at the site south of the U.S. Capitol called for in the agreement Washington signed with the Expos in September. That original deal called for $435 million US to be spent on site acquisition, a new ball park and refurbishing RFK Stadium as a temporary home for the team for the next three seasons.

On Tuesday, Cropp proposed that the ball park remain at the site specified in the agreement, but said the city should pay $150 million and that a private entity be responsible for $350 million.

She promised a vote in two weeks on both the plan in the agreement and her proposal.

"I don't want to slow them down," Cropp said. "If we could save businesses and taxpayers $350 million, it is extremely valuable to take this two-week period "

Mayor Anthony A. Williams called the delay a setback but said he will push for enactment of the original plan, which requires approval from a majority of the council's 13 members.

"I believe the reason we're not having the vote today is because we have the votes," Williams said.

Under Williams' proposal, the district would pay about $11 million per year to finance $550 million in revenue bonds. Spokesman Chris Bender said that money would come from a gross receipts tax - not the general fund used for areas such as schools and libraries. Companies near the stadium subject to gross receipt taxes would pay $4 million a year.

Williams and Bill Hall, the baseball committee chairman of the D.C. Sports and Entertainment Commission, said they are open to offers to blend the financing with a private company, but it would have to be a better deal for taxpayers than what's on the table now.

"My overriding interest is that it gets done in a way that's best for the city and gets done in a way that (upholds) our agreement," Hall said.

The Expos' agreement with Washington requires funding to be approved by Dec. 31. In addition, baseball owners must approve the move and baseball must defeat an attempt by the Expos' former limited partners to gain an injunction blocking a relocation. A hearing is scheduled for Dec. 6 in federal court in Miami.

Bob DuPuy, baseball's chief operating officer, did not return a telephone call seeking comment.

MLB not returning phone calls? No way!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well the delay is over where to build it from what I have read. I think it will get through besides they will be playing in RFK at least and in MLB's opinion that is probably the best possible place they could go. Also I read they are going to be call the Nationals. There was a fan vote on it and although the Senators won (they don't want to go back to that name) they are going with the Nationals.

[Jedieb]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1923385

Bonds wins his record 7th MVP! To honor his historic accomplishment, MLB presented Bonds with a special MVP trophy; A GOLDEN SYRINGE!!!! Way to go Barry!

[JMK]

Congrats to Balco Barry!

Still, you've got to admit it, 7 MVP awards is just stupid, and 232 walks in a season is just ridiculous. If pitchers would just pitch to the guy he could have added at least another 15-20 HR's to his 45.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't think he deserved it. The Giants didn't make the playoffs. I think Beltre for the Dodgers should have got it.

[JMK]

I'm not a big fan of Barry's, but I can't argue with his selection. Nobody in baseball in the past 30 years has had the effect he has on a game. I think Beltre didn't get it because he gets support from guys like Green, Bradley, Finley (though not the whole year). Barry does it almost exclusively alone. That's why he got it IMO.

[JMK]

A pretty good season for former Expos:
Guerrero just won the MVP
Cabrera wins the WS
Pavano has a career year
Walker gets to the WS

On the other hand, Vasquez got rocked in Yankee pinstripes, but I can deal with that. ;)

[darth_mcbain]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Bonds wins his record 7th MVP! To honor his historic accomplishment, MLB presented Bonds with a special MVP trophy; A GOLDEN SYRINGE!!!! Way to go Barry!

LOL :lol

[jjwr]

I can see Vlad for the MVP but Sheffield 2nd? Yeah cause there wasn't anyone else good on that roster...

[Jedi Master Carr]

No clue why Shettfield came in second. I think Ortiz took votes away from Manny that could be why.

[JMK]

That's probably exactly what happened. Ortiz took enough votes away from Manny by being in the same market. Sheffield seems to be as good a runner up as anyone. Both the Yanks and Sox are stacked, so I don't see the problem. Sheffield was great all year long, but this is all moot because Guerrero was so far in front that it doesn't even matter.