The Olympic Games

[jjwr]

Well they are almost upon us, I typically watch a few events here and there depending when they are on TV, of course the typical complaint is the events are over and the results broadcast on TV well before the networks coverage catches up.

Case in point last Friday I had thought about watching the US Basketball teams game against Serbia at 7PM, Serbia is a top team and I figured it would be a good game, I log onto ESPN to check some NFL news and see the headline that USA Crushed Serbia. So much for the game, I for one can't watch a game/event if I already know the outcome, its just not the same.

So anywho, US will win its medals as usual, I expect to hear a lot of talk about Steroids though, especially with Marion Jones making it back onto one of the sprinting teams due to a athlete above her being banned due to substances.

As for Hoops, I still think the US Men will take Gold, there is too much talent on the team and the more they play the better they will be.

Sadly whats not being talked about is the US Basketball Womens team, they are absolutely crushing the competition in their warm-up games. The scores will remind you of the original Dream Teams scores(though lower overall). I doubt they will show many of their games but I'm gonna try and catch some if I can.

[CMJ]

I'm SOOOO excited. The networks of NBC will be showing Olympic stuff 24 hours a day(on CNBC, NBC, MSNBC, Bravo, and USA). I'm going to watch as much as possible. They're showing at least some of EVERY event. How frickin' cool is that? I might wake up at 2AM just to watch Badmitton. :D

[darth_mcbain]

I am really psyched for the games. They are always a lot of fun, even with the fact that a lot of it is rebroadcasted. Yeah, men's basketball will probably go to the US, but I hope that it isn't a runaway.

And yes, there will probably be a lot of talk about steroids and performance enhancement drugs. It is really a shame that it is so rampant out there. It's almost like there should be two sets of Olympics, one drug-free and one where drugs are allowed (wasn't there a SNL skit about that... :) )

I'm really looking forward to the wrestling too - I was always a fan of the sport (no, not professional wrestling) and I'm hoping that there will be decent coverage of it. I'm hoping that Rulon Gardner's victory 4 years ago may have boosted some of the interest in it and the networks will cover it better.

[JMK]

I have almost zero interest this time around.

I suppose being in a winter country, the winter events are more compelling to me. :\

[CMJ]

True, Canada usually cleans up at the Winter Games. We don't typically do that well in the Winter, but rule the Summer. That said, I enjoy watching alot of events that we don't excell in.

I. CAN'T WAIT. :crack

[JMK]

I think the steroid scandals have also turned me off of this year's Olympics. The only thing I may have some interest in is the baseball and in the pool. Canadians usually do ok in the water. And some of our Olympic divers are downright hot! :hat

[darth_mcbain]

Originally posted by JMK
some of our Olympic divers are downright hot! :hat

Oooh yeah...:smokin

[Jedi Master Carr]

So when is the open ceremonies? I am looking forward to it, but I am also worried about terrorism, the olympics is the biggest thing they could hit ever, and Greece isn't exactly a safe country. Still they say there is plenty of security hopefully nothing happens.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I cant get any enthusiasm. It just doesnt have any meaning anymore, it's more who has the best scientists and programs than who's genuinely best.

Mneh. Glad I dont have a television

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Mark, you don't seem to get excited about anything anymore.

[imported_Marcus]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Mark, you don't seem to get excited about anything anymore.

TYhere's plenty of things that get the blood going, the Olympics, the biggest civilian waste of time and money, never can. If you scroll back into the archives, I said exactly the same thing when the Olympics were in my own backyard.

I'd be a lot less cynical if it wasnt for the rampant commercialism, the 'atheles' who could not possibly do what they do without a bucketload of science and funding, the shadow of drug tainting anyway, plus the all out OMG IT'S THE OLYMPICS!!!!! Hype that suffocates everything else.

I probably preferred things when there was an Amateur light on the the whole thing. Granted, the whole IOC was broke because of the lack of commercialism, but the althetes were to me, more interesting.

[darth_mcbain]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
So when is the open ceremonies? I am looking forward to it, but I am also worried about terrorism, the olympics is the biggest thing they could hit ever, and Greece isn't exactly a safe country. Still they say there is plenty of security hopefully nothing happens.

If I'm not mistaken, the opening ceremonies are this Friday. In my area, they're being re-broadcast at 7:00 PM - I'm sure that wherever you are, they will be re-broadcast during prime hours... And yeah, I too worry about terrorism - it seems they've been talking a lot about how the city isn't ready and that security needs to be tighter, I'm hoping they've pulled it together.

[Jedi Master Carr]

They claim they have I hope so. Look at Atlanta that had tight very tight security and Rudloph still blew up a pipe bomb without getting caught, at the time I mean. I think they might try something if anything maybe some car bombs killing civilians, but I sure hope not. They better be on high alert the next two weeks.

[Stafford]

I'll be keeping up with Westbrook and the Smarts in Fencing. We should clean up in Saber this year with Keith. The first time in a long time for Fencing. I'm excited about it :D

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
They claim they have I hope so. Look at Atlanta that had tight very tight security and Rudloph still blew up a pipe bomb without getting caught, at the time I mean. I think they might try something if anything maybe some car bombs killing civilians, but I sure hope not. They better be on high alert the next two weeks.


-_-

Look, not even Al-Quadia would bomb the Olympics. The political consequences for just about any group that has the will power to put a truck bomb together would be spectacualrly negative.

The other fact is that if someone was politically naive enough to think this would help a cause, a detirmined person will do it. It hardly matters what type of security you have up, it's almost impossible to secure a site so big - nor can you secure a modern city. A person or group will be able to think of a way in. Or, they might think left of centre and do somethign unexpected.

Look at Israel, they have some of the tightest security and yet Palestinians still make a habit getting through it.

While I do say that resonable precautions should be taken, to have an expectation of 100% security is unrealistic. Plus, I really do think that terrorist groups would know how badly they would damage their causes by an Olympics attack. Terrorism, real terrorism like Al-Quadia is a political animal and motivations are part political too.

Also, Greece has their own local terrorists. They, unlike us or other talking heads in the media know something about the realities of it. I'm sure they will take the resonable precautions that can be done.

[Darth Vader]

Originally posted by Marcus Telcontar
-_-

Look, not even Al-Quadia would bomb the Olympics. The political consequences for just about any group that has the will power to put a truck bomb together would be spectacualrly negative.

Yes they would. It didn't stop Black September back in 72 at Munich, and it won't stop al Qaeda from trying either.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Exactly why would they care?? Look the Olympics are the symbol of Peace and prosperity it is a perfect target. Now sure the securtiy might be so tight that it is next to impossible, if it is there is nothing to worry about.

[JMK]

I have to agree, the whole world will be paying attention. The whole world knows that the security is supposedly airtight, that Athens is 'the safest city in the world right now', according to Jacques Rogge.

If Al Qaeda's agenda is to inspire fear and to grab attention, then the Olympics is the perfect place to do that. If they can prove that no security is too tight for them to breach, then that may justify to them that bombing the Olympics is the way to go. If they can prove that the 'safest city in the world' is no match for them, they will inspire that fear.

[Stafford]

quote:
Originally posted by Marcus Telcontar
-_-

Look, not even Al-Quadia would bomb the Olympics. The political consequences for just about any group that has the will power to put a truck bomb together would be spectacualrly negative.




Yes they would. It didn't stop Black September back in 72 at Munich, and it won't stop al Qaeda from trying either.

Exactly. They may not bomb the track or the swimming pool, but they might target US, Israeli, or even Iraqi athletes. Or athletes from all nations that have occupying troops in Iraq. That's worst-case scenario.

I wonder if al-Qaida has enough resources now to hit both the US elections and the Olympics. They'd have to choose, IMO.

[Jedi Master Carr]

To me the Olympics would be bigger, that is my belief and it is easier. They could attack tourists which would be the easiest targets. Of course the place might be very secure I know they are saying it is.

[CMJ]

No place that big (over a dozen venues) can possibly be 100% secure. If AQ wants to cause some hell they'll have a chance.

The US women's soccer team opens tommorrow morning vs Greece. Yeah baby...for the next 3 weeks I'm going to have NO life. :D

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well hopefully nothing will happen. I sure don't want to see anything to.

[Dutchy]

Yes! I love the Games.

Really looking forward to the men's 100m final with Jamaican's brand new talent Asafa Powell beating big mouth Maurice Greene.

Also curious how our Sydney golddiggers Inge de Bruijn, Pieter van den Hoogenband and Leontien Zijlaard-Van Moorsel will do. They won 8 gold medals the three of them all together 4 years ago.

[CMJ]

You won't find me defending Maurice Greene. What a tool.

I'm also really looking forward to the swimming events. In fact that's probably the stuff I'm most jacked up about. But I'll watch everything...especially this year with the vast coverage we're getting. There's no way I can watch it all, but I'll sure try. ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am going to watch as much as I can, I plan on watching the opening ceremonies and some of the events. So MSNBC is showing it live? Am I right about that.

[CMJ]

I'm not sure how much MSNBC will show live. The NBC Olympic website has a breakdown of TV coverage for everyday, but I'm not sure what's live/tape delayed. The East Coast is 7 hours behind Greece, so we might get some stuff live, but the "primo" stuff they'll probably wait to broadcast in Primetime on the mothernetwork.

BTW - our women's soccer team won today. That was shown live.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That makes sense, still this is better than it was in Sydney the games were going on when it wasn't even daylight here yet.

[CMJ]

I think the East Coast has 15 hour time difference...so when I was watching it in California we were nearly a day behind.

I had to stay offline the whole time so I wouldn't see the results.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah its was bad for us it was a big difference. This time it is not nearly as bad, but still not as good as Atlanta.

[jjwr]

I hate getting the results ahead of time, the 15hr East Coast difference isn't too bad so some early & mid day stuff they've got going on will be at night here which isn't bad at all.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
That makes sense, still this is better than it was in Sydney the games were going on when it wasn't even daylight here yet.

Speak for yourself :p

[CMJ]

Originally posted by jjwr
I hate getting the results ahead of time, the 15hr East Coast difference isn't too bad so some early & mid day stuff they've got going on will be at night here which isn't bad at all.

Nothiing from Sydney was shown live...because when they could've done so they were still showing the previous days events. Even so about a quarter of the USA population watched the Games. Usually it's much higher...there's no doubt the time difference hurt viewership 4 years ago.

[Dutchy]

I'm hour one hour behind with most major finals in the evening. Perfect. :)

[Stafford]

Ah, nuts. NBCs only showing men's individual saber. 2am-4pm, though. That's the first time fencing is televised in the US like this, and its only saber. Bummer.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Whoever designed the outfits our athletes wore during the opening ceremonies should be FIRED. They looked like schoolkids.

[CMJ]

I thought they looked pretty good. They showed coverage ALL NIGHT. I only slept a few hours. Between this and the hurricane stuff I'm on TV overload. :cool

[darth_mcbain]

I've never watched all that much soccer, but I'm starting to get into it a little bit -- US againsst Brazil - Hamm just scored on a penalty kick. Come on US - hold the lead... :)

[CMJ]

I was up at about 2AM watching the air rifle competition. Those people are amazing.

While I enjoy watching swimming/track/etc(the Olympic sports the US usually gets into) it's been fun watching the lower profile(for us) sports. Badmitton was a riot, I could watch it all day. Fencing went so fast, I could hardly tell WTF was going on, but I watched nonetheless. I got Field Hockey on now.

I don't know if I can keep up this kind of pace for another 2+ weeks. This is by far the best coverage of the Games we've ever gotten that's for sure. It hasn't been off since it started(and won't)...and at times it's on three channels at the same time.

[Travis North]

I just watched today's recap. The Chinese are pretty good sync divers. Boxing was good. Plenty of good hits.

[Dutchy]

Why is everyone looking at Phelps and Thorpe? Tomorrow they're gonna swim the 200m freestyle final, but Van den Hoogenband is gonna kick both their rears. :)

[Stafford]

pffft. What kind of name is "Hoogenband" anyway? Phelps all the way.


Fencing went so fast, I could hardly tell WTF was going on, but I watched nonetheless.

Yeah it's really hard to tell what's going on unless the announcers or whatever explain the rules. Zsolt Nemcsik got in some points that should've been Montano's in the final saber round. Oh well. Montanto won anyway.

China is in the medal lead with five golds already.

Medal Standings (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/medals_table/default.stm)

[Marcus Telcontar]

pffft. What kind of name is "Hoogenband" anyway? Phelps all the way.

-_-




Why is everyone looking at Phelps and Thorpe? Tomorrow they're gonna swim the 200m freestyle final, but Van den Hoogenband is gonna kick both their rears

He's the fastest qualifier, with Thorpe, Phelps and Hackett on his tail. and, isnt he the world record holder too? This probably will be the final of the whole swim meet. I personally think it's going to be yet again between Van den Hoogenband and Thorpe in close to a WR time.

[Figrin D'an]

USA basketball got their butts kicked by Puerto Rico. No bench depth, no outside shooting ability... I honestly hope they get shut out of medal standings. I'd rather that we start sending college players again, who would at least really want to be there and play like a team, rather than put the self-centered mentality of the NBA on center stage.

[CMJ]

The USA/PR basketball game was an abomination...no two ways about it.

I think everyone is looking forward to the 200M Freestyle tommorrow. I give Thorpe the edge, but any of 5 guys can win the dang thing. The US is doing pretty decently at swimming so far - hope we can keep it up.

[Marcus Telcontar]

The last time Thorpe was beaten in the 200M was the sydney Olympics, by Hoogie. Thorpe also has something like the 9 fastest times over the distance. I am corrected, Thorpe holds the WR.

I'm pretty confident it'll be Thorpe verses Hoogie. Phelps would have to swim at least 1 sec below PB to stand a chance to win. Hackett is quick, but it's simply not his event. That's the 1500m. Phelps winning would be a fairly large upset.

[darth_mcbain]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
I'd rather that we start sending college players again, who would at least really want to be there and play like a team, rather than put the self-centered mentality of the NBA on center stage.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I heard the US had lost... Couldn't have said it better

[jjwr]

Thats not really fair to this bunch, they did want to be there, sadly they aren't the best the US have to offer and they are ill-preopared.

Not sure how selected the team but they should have added a few more NBA Vet Role players into the group for stability. This really isn't far from a College Team, only a few players have more than a few years of NBA Experience.

Sadly the US team has definite weaknesses and they matched up against a team that plays to those faults and the US had a bad game to boot.

AI, Marbury...both good NBA PG's but why didn't they pick a solid PG who can hit a jumper on occasion, why not pick a few older players who can score outside of 6ft from the hoop. Dump Marion, add Paul Pierce, heck a player or two like Reggie Miller would have been huge.

I really don't understand the selection process here, it definetly could have been better. These are very good players, but they are very young and haven't had enough time together to play any sort of real team ball, had they been given about 2 months prep time they would be having no problems.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by jjwr
These are very good players, but they are very young and haven't had enough time together to play any sort of real team ball, had they been given about 2 months prep time they would be having no problems.

I agree with all of your post JJ, but ESPECIALLY this. In Olympic years the NBA should shorten it's season and playoffs(or move them up by a month at least ) to give Team USA more prep time. The 2-3 weeks they had this summer is ridiculous. Two to three MONTHS is more like it.

[Figrin D'an]

The comment was more tuned to the countless NBA players who snubbed playing for Team USA. The team that is in Athens is, by most accounts, made up of second and third choices, because so many players turned down the invitation to play. So much so, that you have James, Anthony, Wade, and Okefor on the team... three players with all of one year of pro ball under their belts, plus an '04 Draft pick. Nothing against those guys, because at least they want to be there, but that kind of youth isn't going to fair well against teams that, while maybe not as purely talented or athletic, have much more experience.


Or, even better, rather than sending an "all-star" team to the Olympics, send the winner of the NBA Finals that year. Yeah, you might lose a non-American player here or there that decides to go home and play for their own country, but then you just fill in any open roster spots with other players around the league that want to go.

Seriously... the Detroit Pistons would have been an ideal team to send, because they play defense and understand how to pass the ball and create shot opportunities. Those are a MUST in international play. The gripe is that Team USA doesn't have the 3-point shooting to match up with some of the other nations... true, but if they would play defense and contest shots, it wouldn't be such an issue.

[JediBoricua]

If I sound like I'm gloating...I am.

What a day! You must understand how huge this is for us, we're a country of only 4 million people, and we did not only beat the US, we gave them a basketball tutorial. For us this is the Gold Medal.

Of course to much of the Internation community this was a surprise, and it is indeed an upset, but we knew we could do it. This same team has been playing for 4 years, and we have consistently played in Olympics and World Champs. Hell, FIBA has us ranket at No. 7 in the World. We can do it and we would love to steal a medal.

I'm happy, very very very happy.

To the americans I have more bad news though. Our style is strongly influenced by yours. The truth is we are not that different, we thrive in transition, we penetrate a lot, we play a very loose zone/man to man defense. We don't play the European game at all, so your worst trouble might be ahead, not behind you.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Now I think most of the NBA players who refused was because of terrorism concerns, I think (they could be lying I suppose). Honestly they need to make some heavy changes the Dream team stuff is pretty much over.

[jjwr]

Well like Tim Duncan had said this isn't the Dream Team, the '92 Team was the Dream Team, I'm sure they weren't liking the comparisons either.

Ending the season 2 Months early is something I had thought about as well, in Olympic years if they cut off 1/4 of the season they would have ample time to prepare. The legit concern the teams would have is loss of revenue, that could be up to 10 home games lost which would mean a huge loss by teh owners so odds are it would never be approved.

The problem with sending the Pistons or any NBA Championship team is by then they've been playing Hoops for about 10 Months straight, well over 100 games and many times that in practices, etc. They are weary and tired, while the Foreign teams are playing together they aren't playing a NBA Schedule or against NBA teams nightly. These guys do need time to rest, if I'm not mistaken none of the Pistons or Lakers are on the team as they had been playing far longer than any other team.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Frankly, this is where professional sports meets idealism = bad idea.

(And JMC... really. What's with the terror obsession?)

Why should the USA basketballers care two hoots about the Olympics? They get paid huge dollars, they have the fame, what's a small gold medal goign to mean for them? They have all the recogition they could ever need, for them the olympics is an unwanted distraction. Fair enough. I actually think they have no justifiable place in the Olympics. It's not like swimming or althetics where the Olympics are the genuine pinnicle.

Say if we take tennis. The Olympics are a tier below the Slams. Or even lower. Mneh, you win a medal. It's nothing compared to Wimbledon.

If the pros dont want to go (and as I said, I can understand why), let the up and comers have a go. Rather see people there who want to be there and losign, than pros who would rather be doing somethign else.

[JMK]

I'm not so sure how much prep time has to do with this. Sure it factors in, but I think the U.S. team's disappointing performances so far are more a result of the team that was chosen (or more aptly, the team that was settled upon) not being suited to international (read: team) play.

If you go back to the 2002 Winter Olympics, team Canada had selected great players, but they struggled early. Eventually they won the gold, because they were all were team players. None of those players played on the same team (or very few if there were any), and the tournament was mid-season, so they had an even more compressed preparation schedule. It's all about the team game and being unselfish. I still think the U.S. team can come around, and will continue to think that until they are eliminated, but they'd better check their egos at the door and start playing as a unit or they are going to have a lot of questions to answer.

[jjwr]

It does come down to time though, the majority of these players are the key focus on their team and as such always think they are the focus.

What they don't have is the familiarity with each other and as a team to trust each other and play within themselves as a team.

A big part of the NBA is 1 on 1 but you can't do that with internationals and thats where these guys are faltering, had they been given the time to play together more they could have overcome it.

Sadly there really isn't a reason for these guys to even go, the Olympics don't mean what they used to. We all like to think they should go to represent their country but unlike a Rower or Badminton player these guys are in the spotlight everyday of everyyear, a tournament every 4 years doesn't quite hold up for them like it does your generic Olympian.

[Dutchy]

Thorpe won. Damn. :(

Pieter kicked Phelp's butt, though. :)

So much for the latter's 7 golds! As if he had any chance.

[Figrin D'an]

This whole "breaking Mark Spitz' gold medal record" hype is/was so ridiculous. The guy is 19 years old. He's not yet in his prime. In another 4 years, he might be dominant, but not this time. The media blew the whole thing out of proportion.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Marcus Telcontar
Frankly, this is where professional sports meets idealism = bad idea.

(And JMC... really. What's with the terror obsession?)

Why should the USA basketballers care two hoots about the Olympics? They get paid huge dollars, they have the fame, what's a small gold medal goign to mean for them? They have all the recogition they could ever need, for them the olympics is an unwanted distraction. Fair enough. I actually think they have no justifiable place in the Olympics. It's not like swimming or althetics where the Olympics are the genuine pinnicle.

Say if we take tennis. The Olympics are a tier below the Slams. Or even lower. Mneh, you win a medal. It's nothing compared to Wimbledon.

If the pros dont want to go (and as I said, I can understand why), let the up and comers have a go. Rather see people there who want to be there and losign, than pros who would rather be doing somethign else.


You mean me? Nothing I was speaking the truth some of the players said they didn't want to go because of terrorism concenrs. I guess they could have used that as an excuse I really don't know.

[CMJ]

Nice trolling post Dutchy. Has Inge de Bruijn or Pieter van den Hoogenband won a gold yet? Come back and talk to me when they do.

I never thought Phelps would beat or tie Spitz's record. If he wins 8 total medals at 1 Games, that's an amazing accomplishment. By Beijing he might be scary good(only 19 remember). Hell, he already is.

Oh yeah, thanks for spoling the results. I'll still watch our coverage of the event, but we're tape delayed several more hours. :p

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
Nice trolling post Dutchy. Has Inge de Bruijn or Pieter van den Hoogenband won a gold yet? Come back and talk to me when they do.

Does that exclude Phelps not having a chance winning 7 or 8 golds? No, it doesn't. I'm just tired of hearing the media shouting about Phelps become the new Spitz. He's not the new Spitz. Yet.


I never thought Phelps would beat or tie Spitz's record. If he wins 8 total medals at 1 Games, that's an amazing accomplishment. By Beijing he might be scary good(only 19 remember). Hell, he already is.

True, true. Not denying it.


Oh yeah, thanks for spoling the results. I'll still watch our coverage of the event, but we're tape delayed several more hours. :p

Just like Phelps was delayed several hundredths of seconds. :p

[Dutchy]

Oh, and sure I'll be back after Pieter wins the King Event the 100m on Wednesday. :)

I'm less sure about Inge, but maybe she can do it.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Dutchy
Thorpe won. Damn. :(

Pieter kicked Phelp's butt, though. :)

So much for the latter's 7 golds! As if he had any chance.

Didnt think Phelps had a chance either.

My opinion apart from the :( for Thorpe winning. I think that's :D. Thorpe now becomes the most successful Aust Olympian ever and still has more events to go, plus a likely Beijing campain.

I might point out that Phelps is in fact two seconds slower than Thorpe was at 19. Thorpe is now 21. I doubt Phelps will get a lot quicker, even as he gets stronger. Phepls however deserves to be compared to no-one, he's an excellent swimmer and comparisions to Spitz does him no credit. I tend to shake my head at attempts to say some is the new XYZ. They invariably fail and fall short.

And that's a pity, because that ignores his talent. Say he wins 4 gold here, maybe 4 in Beijing..... now that's a damn good career and stands by itself.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

And Phelps said himself he'd be happy with one gold. Which he already has. He didn't set himself up to get all 9 golds, and I think he's represented himself well.

I think results of races, etc. should be spoiler texted due to delayed broadcasting. Dutchy, don't be mean and spoil the results please.

[CMJ]

Phelps is the next Biondi. ;) (I'm saying this to jerk Marcus's chain a bit) I'm too young to have watched Spitz, but I did see Biondi swim. He's the best I've ever watched. His Seoul haul was awesome(5 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze), and he did well in Barcelona as well(I think he won 4 more medals).

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
And Phelps said himself he'd be happy with one gold. Which he already has. He didn't set himself up to get all 9 golds, and I think he's represented himself well.

I think results of races, etc. should be spoiler texted due to delayed broadcasting. Dutchy, don't be mean and spoil the results please.

Like I would do that on purpose. I didn't realize there are countries that don't show the world's biggest sports event live. :)

[CMJ]

We do get some events live, but most of the "primo" stuff is tape delayed because they wanna show it in Primetime.

[Dutchy]

That's just sad. If you're a sports fan then you want to see it LIVE. There's no thrill in watching sport than watching it as it happens.

[jjwr]

If they showed the stuff Live no one would be watching it, I was working out at lunch yesterday and they were showing events live from about 9PM Athens time, anything earlier in the day, even stuff around Noon would be way too early.

Thats always been one of the problems, if your really interested your best bet is to stay away from Sportscenter, ESPN.com, etc and just watch and enjoy and pretend its live :)

[CMJ]

Originally posted by jjwr
Thats always been one of the problems, if your really interested your best bet is to stay away from Sportscenter, ESPN.com, etc and just watch and enjoy and pretend its live :)

That's what I try to do. I'm usually successful unless an event is spoiled on an internet messageboard. ;)

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
That's what I try to do. I'm usually successful unless an event is spoiled on an internet messageboard. ;)

:p

I can't and don't want to do that. Either I watch it live or I read the results. I never watch an event tape delayed when I can watch it live.

Live is SO much better.

[CMJ]

The deal is Dutchy we CAN'T watch it live. If we wanna watch not knowing the results, we HAVE to stay away from the news. You don't have the staying power to not look at results? Fine, but don't be so condescending towards us.

Oh, and since I try not to know exactly when individual events are done, taped delay is just as good because I DON'T know the results.

BTW - here was a great editorial written on Phelps I just read.

**************************

Plenty great
by Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports

August 16, 2004

ATHENS, Greece – So who came up with this eight gold medals thing anyway?

Was it Michael Phelps himself, in a fit of youthful gumption, who figured why not suggest the impossible? Was it his marketing team at the Octagon Group, eager to win the media hype wars?

Was it USA Swimming, starving for attention and seeing its chance? Was it Speedo, whose public relations staff made a million in free publicity with its $1 million offer to Phelps if he did it?

Was it us, a cheerleading press?

Whoever it was, what a shame. Peddling hype pays the bills and sells papers, but it also sets the stage for failure.

Monday, a day after Phelps' bid for eight golds ended in a relay bronze, so too did his drive to tie Mark Spitz's seven when he couldn't hang with Australia's Ian Thorpe and the Netherlands' Pieter van den Hoogenband in the 200–meter freestyle.

So the 19-year-old only won bronze.

After three events he is only one–for–three.

And isn't that "only" everything that's wrong with what the over–commercialized Olympics have become?

"I did what I wanted to do," Phelps said after his 1:45.32 set an American record. "I did my best time, and I raced the two greatest 200–meter swimmers of all time, so I am happy."

Good for him, although that isn't how the headlines will read.

The sad part is that it is the ultra–competitive athlete who has to tell everyone else that not all is lost when you win bronze. That ridiculous Nike advertising slogan from the Sydney Games – "you don't win silver, you lose gold" – is worthless except as insight into the mind of a marketer.

Phelps is still young, famous, talented and rich, so no one should shed a tear for the kid. But you have to feel for him on some level.

At some point, the breathless expectations everyone was selling around him – "eight golds!", "better than Spitz!" – became ridiculous. It got him on the cover of magazines, got him the endorsement deals, got him the attention.

It must have looked great on paper: Win eight, get hailed as America's greatest Olympian ever, collect millions in endorsements, pick a Hilton sister and live happily ever after.

But it was obviously a pipe dream. And one with consequences.

Michael Phelps, the great Michael Phelps, may still leave Athens with four or five gold medals and seven or eight total. Yet he'll spend the rest of his life explaining why he didn't do better.

"Michael is capable of going home with eight medals," said teammate Aaron Peirsol. "In this day and age, that's fantastic. It's the Spitzian feat of our time."

This is what it has come to though; athletes oversold by a hype machine designed to create income-generating attention first and worry about reality never.

If Ian Thorpe comes along and kicks <smallfont color=#FF0000>-Censored-</smallfont>, well, move on to the next client.

It seems these days you are the G.O.A.T. – the Greatest of all time – or just merely a goat.

Monday, in the star–studded "Duel in the Pool", which swimming aficionados were calling the greatest race ever, Phelps was never a threat to win. He was great, just not great enough. It was no surprise.

Thorpe, the world record holder, is the man from the land down under, 6-foot-5 and full of muscle. He bit the competition up like a Vegemite sandwich.

His 1:44.71 was a new Olympic record.

Phelps produced a fine, medal–stand worthy performance. But afterward some of the questions were about what went wrong, not what went right.

"I had fun out there," Phelps said.

In the run-up to the race you could see this coming; Phelps tried to hedge his bet. He kept saying that his goal was one gold medal, not eight. On Saturday, when he won his first, he made a point of savoring the moment.

But it was too late. The hype was out of the bag. Expectations had overwhelmed reality. Everyone was talking about more. No one else was satisfied.

We should have been.

Michael Phelps of Baltimore, Maryland won a bronze medal Monday in the greatest swimming race of all time.

Congratulations, kid. You did great.

Dan Wetzel is Yahoo! Sports' national columnist. Send him a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

[darth_mcbain]

Good article - I totally think it is the press and media that blew this thing out of proportion. It all comes down to their ratings - by hyping this thing up it drums up interest (there's no contesting that - without all the hype I probably wouldn't have even known who this guy was) and boosts their ratings. It's a shame - he is doing very well and should be proud of himself. Hopefully he won't be remembered as the guy who didn't live up to the unreasonable expectations set on him by the media...

[CMJ]

I knew about Plelps(don't watch many of the events, because they're obviously not televised here, yet I keep tabs on all sorts of clique sports), but the average American doesn't keep up with swimming except in Olympic years. This is actually rather bizarre because we're one of dominant countries in the sport and have been for generations.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
The deal is Dutchy we CAN'T watch it live. If we wanna watch not knowing the results, we HAVE to stay away from the news. You don't have the staying power to not look at results? Fine, but don't be so condescending towards us.

I KNOW you can't wacht it live. I'm just saying my experience, not judging yours. Please don't take offense at everything I say.


Oh, and since I try not to know exactly when individual events are done, taped delay is just as good because I DON'T know the results.

I disagree. Even not knowing the result, it's not the same for me (note: for ME).

So, no, I don't have the staying power to not look at results. I'll watch it live no matter what.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
That ridiculous Nike advertising slogan from the Sydney Games – "you don't win silver, you lose gold" – is worthless except as insight into the mind of a marketer.

They used it in Atlanta already and it's not ridiculous. I love it!

When you're aiming for gold and have a decent shot at it, then you (in general) indeed don't win silver, but lose gold.

When you're an outsider, then you win silver.

So looking at it that way Phelps' bronze in the 100m free was good.

Good article, btw.

[CMJ]

So did Pieter lose the gold then? :rolleyes

[Jedi Master Carr]

I guess you could watch the events on the internet live somewhere. The BBC was showing some off their website only for people in the UK. But knowing the net you can probably find it. Of course that is tough to do so you only have two options. Ignore everything sports wise or just don't worry about it and watch it anyway.

[Figrin D'an]

In four years, we'll be back to the really obnoxious tape delaying like that for the Sydney games, so comparatively, this isn't that bad.

[CMJ]

The US really cleaned up today. The 4x200, Phelp's also gets gold in his 200 butterfly, Amanda Beard's silver, gold/bronze in fencing - and I'm sure I'm leaving something off. Great day. :D

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Silver in US womens team gymnastics. Lost gold to the Romanians, who were virtually flawless. Great to watch.

[CMJ]

I probably left that off because I'm not a big gymnastics fan. ;)

I stayed up late to watch the preliminaries of the shotput at Olympia. Very cool to watch - since it's where this all began over 2500 years ago. They're showing the finals tonight in primetime.

We won the silver in kayak this morning - didn't stay up quite late enough to see that(they showed it live). Did see our gold medal winner in the double trap shooting competition. She was almost crying...nice moment. :D

[Sanis Prent]

:( I missed shotput :( My favorite event ever ever ever.

[CMJ]

The men's final is being shown tonight...you can still see it. You missed the prelims. :)

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
Has Inge de Bruijn or Pieter van den Hoogenband won a gold yet? Come back and talk to me when they do.

Okay, I'm back!

I'm back with the defending gold medal winner of swimming's centerpiece event, the 100m freestyle: Pieter van den Hoogenband.

Woooohoooo!

Only for the 3rd time in history a man was able to defend his 100m freestyle title.

What a fantastic moment. I was so not sure he'd win with Schoeman starting like a rocket in the semi final and doing the same in the final. Pieter was behind throughout the whole race, but was closing in inch by inch and beat Schoeman by a fraction.

What a race!

[JMK]

Wow, these Olympics have been an embarassment so far for Canada; 1 bronze medal so far, which is tied for last with such global giants like Azerbaijan, Mongolia, Slovenia, and Croatia.

Good thing I didn't have much interest to begin with. But as long as the men's baseball team can reach the podium as well as the women's softball team, I'll be glad.

[CMJ]

Actually last place is the multitude of countries that haven't gotten anything so far. ;)

[Figrin D'an]

I'm not into gymnastics at all, but I've been watching it because of Paul Hamm. He's kind of a hometown hero (he's from the city right next to mine in Wisconsin), so a lot of people around here have been rooting for him, understandably. What an amazing comeback for him. It looked like he was out of medal contention, then he might have had a chance at the bronze, but then pulled off the near impossible and took the gold by 12/1000 of a point.


Wow. Beyond impressive.

[jjwr]

I was watching that as well Figrin, I'm not a fan of Gymnastics either and sadly when I was checking ESPN earlier today I saw the results already.

So I turned on the Olympics and it was on so I figured I would watch to see what happens and how it all played out, even watching it and seeing his fall....which was a pretty bad fall.....and then see him do two incredible routines and everyone else mess up....wow....just wow. What a performance by this guy.

[Charley]

Holy crap. Paul Hamm was astounding. Thats the biggest comeback I've ever seen in Olympic history.

[Charley]

BTW, how did we do in shotput? I didn't get to watch it!!! :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Charley
BTW, how did we do in shotput? I didn't get to watch it!!! :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad


Adam Nelson won the silver.

[Charley]

Only silver, eh? Damn. I figured we had that one locked.

[Ryan Pode]

He probably would have had the gold but on that last throw he fouled. But that was a helluva throw.

[Charley]

Man, shotput is such an incredible sport. The only other sport I'd watch instead of shotput is football.

The first thing I'll do whenever I buy a house of my own is to construct my own pit in the back yard. That's how much I love the sport.

[CMJ]

He definitely would've won the gold...if he coulda gotten a legal throw. He had FIVE fouls in 6 attempts! He actually tied for longest distance, but since he had no backup he only got the silver.

We also go Gold/Bronze in the time trial.

Our women win the 4x200 relay(crushing the WR) and Brendan Hansen won the bronze in the 200M breaststroke.. Forgot to mention that.

[Dutchy]

So CMJ, I thought we'd talk again after Pieter'd win gold? :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by Dutchy
What a fantastic moment. I was so not sure he'd win with Schoeman starting like a rocket in the semi final and doing the same in the final. Pieter was behind throughout the whole race, but was closing in inch by inch and beat Schoeman by a fraction.

What a race!
FANTASTIC race. Really a great one, and Pieter did an amazing job.



Originally posted by Charley
Holy crap. Paul Hamm was astounding. Thats the biggest comeback I've ever seen in Olympic history.
I almost cried :cry, Even though it was delayed, I'm glad I was able to watch it. I can't believe that he was able to come back after nearly crashing into the judges tables.

>_< It wasn't quite as hard to watch (the fall) as the little Chinese gymnast last night that fell on her face on her dismount from the uneven bars. But to come back from falling on his butt - Paul Hamm made Olympic history in more ways than one tonight.

And how :cool is a gold medal in womens fencing from a gal from Oregon!! :D

[jjwr]

The Womens 4x200 Relay was very impressive, I saw that last night as well, the first leg they were up big, lost it a bit in the 2nd leg but in the last quarter of that leg they pulled away and from there the last 2 legs just dominated, very impressive.

Hamm again....wow, what a incredible job he did, what was even more incredible was at the when he was waiting for the results, they were posted and you the crowd went wild he gets up and his coach tells him he won gold and you can see him saying No Way a few times...the guy didn't even know it, he was so happy after his routines to just have medaled.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I'm torn - I detest basketball...

and yet Aust are besting the USA at present. AGGGGH. That's so not right

Edit : Sanity restored. Thankfully. One thing I dont want to see a win in.

[CMJ]

Believe it or not Marcus, that was actually shown live. I woke up at 4AM to watch it. I had a feelng that might be what you were spoiler tagging, so I figured I'd be safe to read it.

Dutchy, congrats. But my point from earlier stands...he didn't win both events he had a decent shot in. All you could do was talk noise when Phelps didn't win in 2 events. By my count he now has 3 golds, with more to come perhaps.

Oh, and I don't know if you saw it, but you guys won the silver in badminton Dutchy. :thumbup They also showed that live this morning:

[Charley]

Haha, Matt Lauer tried putting the Olympic shotput on the Today show.

Suprisingly, he did pretty well for an unskilled put. Without any discernible technique, it looked like a solid 15 feet. Not bad for a first try ;)

[CMJ]

I thought he performed admirably considering he'd never done it before in his life.

[Charley]

I think my record in high school was 45 feet, but that's also with a varsity shotput (12 pounds)

Olympic class are 16 pounds. I trained with these at practice, and with that class, I'm around 38 at my best.

It ain't easy, that's for sure.

[Charley]

Carly Patterson clinches gold in womens overall gymnastics, the second american woman ever to do this.

Needless to say, the first time in history that America has won the all-around in both mens and womens categories.

Wow.

[CMJ]

Beard, Peirsol, and Phelps all win their events. Coughlin won the bronze in hers.

Phelps now has 4 golds and two bronzes. Wowsers.

Couglin has 2 golds a silver and a bronze I believe.

Peirsol swept the 2 backstrokes, much like Krayzelburg did for us 4 years ago..

Beard adds a gold and silver to her totals from Atlanta and Sydney.

Of course we also have other stars in the pool like Sandano. We really are strong top to bottom in swimming...it's rather extraordinary.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Of course we also have other stars in the pool like Sandano. We really are strong top to bottom in swimming...it's rather extraordinary.

Ahem. No, it's not extraordinary, not by past standards.

The USA has ALWAYS been strong - actually I think this is a weaker team, certainly the USA was somewhat stronger say about 10 years ago, after the doped Eastern block swimmers disappeared and before the Australians began to produce a batch of swimmers to challenge the overall dominance.

You have one truly special swimmer in Phelps and what I regard as the usual USA champions, so I think the results are pretty much as expected. Maybe a bit better, because Phelps is a cut above his competion, esp in the IM's.

What is different is that Australia in particular is producing a batch of great swimmers, not just one or two at a time, which is the norm. Tonight, we'll see Grant Hackett in action for the 1500m torture test. Hackett I believe is the only swimmer to consistently go below 15 minutes and has the WR a good 15 - 20 seconds faster than the PB of the other swimmers. The 1500 is always been a favorite of mine. Hackett should qualify 1 or 2, depending on how hard he takes the race. Then again, it is likely he could swim a minute slower than his WR and still qualify for the finals. I doubt he'll do that, he'll try to put his authority on the race in the heats is my call.

[CMJ]

It's extraordinary we develop all of this talent when our country doesn't get behind swimmers like they should - unless it's an Olympic year. For us to be so good, for so long in the sport which is virtually ignored by mainstream media(and thus sports fans in general) here is remarkable. Thorpe is an icon in Australia(or so it seems). Phelps is somewhat popular, but will soon fade from the limelight here. He'll be remembered, like our other Olympic heros, but most folks will soon be back to focusing on the 4 major North American sports.

It's sad, but true.

[JMK]

Yeah, does anyone remember that speed skater anymore? Nope.

[CMJ]

Which one, Apollo Ono? We've had a ton of them in past Olympics. The most famous probably being Eric Hayden and Bonnie Blair. The Dan Jansen saga went over like 4 Olympics.

[Stafford]

And how :cool is a gold medal in womens fencing from a gal from Oregon!!:D

Yeah, that's great! We're probably going to have to wait another hundred years now though :\

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
Eric Hayden

Heiden. :)

[Jedieb]

I've pretty much ignored the games, and I'll continue to do so but I did tune in for the gymnastics when I saw that Hamm had done something no other American male had done. I was a gymnast and competed in meets as a kid so I ususally try to catch some of the gymnastics. The leaders were tripping over themselves on the last 2 rounds and one of the Koreans got hosed by the judges, but none of that was Hamm's fault. He was all the way in 12th place after his horrible vault and ended with the two best parallel bars and high bar routines of his life. He nailed them both. It was pretty impressive.

[CMJ]

Kenenisa Bekele of Ethiopia wins the 10K in just over 27 minutes. I run everyday and occasionally do little road races here and there. That's unbelevably fast. The dude ran the last quarter mile in 53 seconds. Holy crap - most milers can't do that!

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Dutchy
Heiden. :)

Sorry. :) I was about 2 when he swept the events in Lake Placid, so you'll have to forgive me. Arguably our greatest Winter Olympian ever.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
Sorry. :) I was about 2 when he swept the events in Lake Placid, so you'll have to forgive me. Arguably our greatest Winter Olympian ever.

I'll forgive you. :)

BTW, you said "All you could do was talk noise when Phelps didn't win in 2 events". That was only directed against the media who shouted Phelps would win 8 or 9 golds. I have nothing against Phelps. He seems pretty likable and won 5 golds so far, which is an amazing achievement.

Somehow it seems less interesting, though, because it was kinda expected. Besides, he doesn't seem overly happy when he wins. Unlike some other swimmers who really enjoy their gold. Phelps seemed most happy with his 4x100 free gold. I really liked how he smiled afterwards, he seemed very happy.

The greatest enjoyment of a gold medal was definitely by Van den Hoogenband. Defending his gold medal on the 100m free was even better than winning it the first time in Sydney, he said. I loved to see his utter excitement after he won swimming's centerpiece event. It's easily the highpoint of these Olympics for me so far.

I hope Inge de Bruijn will defend her 50m freestyle gold today after losing her 2 others. I'm pretty sure she can do it.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Interesting Phelps gave up an almost certain medal in the last relay. He could have had 6, yet hands over his chance to someone else. I dont think anyone expected that and no one would have thought twice if he did accept his place on the relay and scored six.

Very impressed.

[Dutchy]

He swam the series, so he'll get the medal anyway. IF they get one, of course.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Dutchy
He swam the series, so he'll get the medal anyway. IF they get one, of course.

Yep, he just won't be on the stand. But he wanted his teammate to get a gold. Phelps is a really classy guy. I hope he sticks around and doesn't burn out. He gives Americans a good name, unlike Gary Hall Jr. - who's about the only American I can't root for.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5749457/?GT1=4529 Great article on the US Womens Softball team. I hadn't seen any of their games, and I didn't know they were doing *quite* as well as they are!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Is the men's Basketball team done?? Can they even qualify for a medal now? Seriously I think they won't medal regardless and they don't deserve to, IMO.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I think they've only lost twice so far - and they're in the semi-finals.

[CMJ]

Because Greece lost toady we're in the medal round. We still have one more pool game to play before the quarterfinals. We'll probably be matched up against Spain.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't they will win though at least not the way they have been playing.

[CMJ]

They played pretty well vs Lithuania. If they had hit better than the 60% from the FT line they would've won . Honestly, they should've - they controlled the play throughout.. The team is starting to come together...finally.

This was really the first time I thought "Gee this actually looks like a team".

[Ryan Pode]

I was very impressed with there ball movement early on. At the end of the fourth tho, it was pretty sloppy passing/movement.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think the lack of three point shooters is going to kill them though.

[jjwr]

I was thinking about this earlier today, while I enjoy Mens Hoops and cheering for the US and all I was realizing there really is a good example of how the US is still the best at hoops.

Anyone checking out the Womens team? They are destroying their opponents along the lines of the '92 & '96 Mens teams. The team is doing what the men would have been doing had the best players shown up.

I think its silly when people still say the International game is catching up, its obviously not, its just money & time getting in the way of the US fielding a strong mens team.

[CMJ]

How many foreign players were in the NBA 10 years ago? The rest of the wordl IS catching up, though they're not that close yet. The circumstances of international play are hard for us to deal with(limited time together, rule changes, etcc) and will be from now on.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Anyone checking out the Womens team? They are destroying their opponents along the lines of the '92 & '96 Mens teams. The team is doing what the men would have been doing had the best players shown up.

I think its silly when people still say the International game is catching up, its obviously not, its just money & time getting in the way of the US fielding a strong mens team.

Who was the MVP in the WNBA last year and is known to be one of the world's best ever?

If you answered a US player, your wrong. It's Lauren Jackson.

http://www.wnba.com/playerfile/lauren_jackson/index.html?nav=page

The international game IS catching up for two reasons - Intl players in the NBA and WNBA, plus training and techniques crossing to other competitions with the flow of players in and out of local competitions. Jackson still comes home to play for the Sydney womens team. and she's not the only woman playing in the WNBA.

It's likely the women's final will be Aust vs USA and I dont think it's goign to be a whitewash. It'll probably be quite close.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't know I think the US women's team is just too strong. With the men you have a different argument.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
I don't know I think the US women's team is just too strong. With the men you have a different argument.

Looking at the stats, I'm afraid they disagree with the women. The Aust team is doing it just as easily and the leading stats player is Jackson.

I'm predicting a USA win still, but by 4 points only.

BTW, Lauren Jackson, Penny Taylor, Kristi Harrower, Trish Fallon, Rachael Sporn and Sandy Brondello are regular WNBA players. Still think it's USA for certain?

[jjwr]

USA vs Aust should be a good game, but in general the USA Womens team is destroying teams.

The Mens team would also be destroying teams if they sent the best players, the thing is all these countries are loaded up with their best players and are winning close games against the US team.

International is catching up, but if the US sent their best like the other countries are they would be winning by 20+ a game and wouldn't have lost this year at all.

The problem is the NBA & Money, for these players the Olympics isn't the biggest thing out there, the NBA is so thats what they focus on. If the US gave a shortened NBA Season and gave the team a month to practice with a linup like.....

G: Jason Kidd
G: Ray Allen
SF: Kevin Garnett
PF: Tim Duncan
C: Shaq

Game over.....you have great jump shooters in Allen & Garnett, monsters inside in Shaq & Duncan and possibly the best PG on the planet when he's healthy. Throw in guys like Iverson, Lebron, Ben Wallace, Reggie Miller, etc on the bench.

Believe me this isn't a USA is holier than thou argument, I'm a big hoops fan and its sad to see the US losing when it easily has the best players but $$$$ and Ego's keep them from putting a good team on the floor come Olympics.

As has been mentioned recently, I would rather you take a group of the best college players, get Coach K to run the team and give him 2 months during the summer with the kids and send them out there.

[CMJ]

Justin Gatlin won the 100M in the closest final ever. Deena Kastor won bronze in the women's marathon. Our men's 8 won the rowing gold(women won silver). We won some other stuff yesterday, but those were the big stories. :cool

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Question : if you were Paul Hamm, what would you do with your gold medal?

Some people are calling for him to give his medal to the So. Korean, but I don't agree. I think he should abide by whatever decision is made by the rulemakers (as he said yesterday he was more than willing to do) and let that be that. It isn't his fault there was a judging error, and having all this hoopla afterwards really takes the fun out of watching him win the gold. :(

[CMJ]

The judges screwed up. So did the South Koreans. If you're going to rpotest a score the rule says it has to be done that evening. They didn't file an objection till the next day.

Should Hamm have won? Technically, no. But it's not his fault. He got the gold by the rules established fair and square.

(This is the reason I don't get into judged sports - too political)

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by CMJ
Should Hamm have won? Technically, no. But it's not his fault. He got the gold by the rules established fair and square.This is something I have seen a pretty good argument against myself. saying that the S. Korean should have won just because of the one scoring foul up in one event isn't really accurate IMO. It wasn't the final event, else possibly that could be true. Even if he had gotten that extra tenth in his score, how would that have played into his upcoming event or how would that score have effected the scores that other individuals got in their events afterwards.

Saying the S. Korean should have gotten gold just isn't accurate as I see it, there are too many other variables after the fact of his getting the correct score that could have changed the entire picture.

I don't think Hamm shouls consider giving up his gold and hand it over to the s. Korean. He won by the rules, and the error was made by the judges, which is in no way his fault, nor is it a definate indicator that he should not have won the event and the S. Korean should have.

EDIT: Here is a link to the article I read which I agree with: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/olympics/2004/writers/08/23/swift.gym/index.html?cnn=yes

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
Our men's 8 won the rowing gold(women won silver).

Our men's 8 won the rowing silver. :)

[jjwr]

I read that same article, it makes some very good points which most people seem to not think about. A single event changing does not necessarily mean the outcome changes in exactly the same way.

It reminds of me of the NBA Playoffs a few years ago, Lakers vs Kings and the Lakers pulled off a big shot at the end of the half, something about the shot was illegal but it was counted good so Johnathan would always say had they ruled that correctly and the 3 pts not counted then the Kings would have won(they lost by like 2 I think). The fact that the entire 2nd half still had to be played made no difference......

So anywho, Paul Hamm won the gold, to say otherwise can't be proven without a time machine and changing history.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by SWFans.Net
EDIT: Here is a link to the article I read which I agree with: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/olympics/2004/writers/08/23/swift.gym/index.html?cnn=yes

A statement made near the end of the article also lends credibility to the "no second Gold medal" stance. If they want to start using video to review a questionable decision, they should review everything about the routine. In this case, Yang should have gotten an extra 0.1 points for the starting score mistake, but he also should have been further deducted 0.2 points for having four holds in his routine instead of the allowed maximum of three. The judges missed both items, and it would seem rather unfair to the nature of the sport to use video to correct one mistake and not the other.


Judged sports are subjective. That's the way it works. If you are a competitor in a judged sport, it comes with the territory that you will eventually both suffer and gain from judging bias and error. In this case, it means that Paul Hamm won the Gold medal and Yang Tae Young won the Bronze. Neither of them was in control of how they were judged, and neither one of them cheated in any way. To strip someone of a medal because of an error that is in no way that person's fault, or to attempt to guilt a person into giving it up because of an error made outside of that person's influence, is completely ridiculous.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

and I completely agree. I read an article on yahoo that said that since Paul Hamm didn't hand his gold medal over to Yang Tae Young, that he was a great example of BAD sportsmanship!!

Horrid article. I only read two paragraphs. :p

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
I read an article on yahoo that said that since Paul Hamm didn't hand his gold medal over to Yang Tae Young, that he was a great example of BAD sportsmanship!!

A person who says that has never won an Olympic Gold medal.

Bad sportsmanship would be not accepting the rules, regulations and precidents of one's sport and attempting to currcumvent them to win on a technicality.

Oh wait... gee... isn't that what the South Korean team is doing? Let's see... they fail to file a protest in time, so they do it after the alloted time frame and claim they were told to do so by judging officials, despite that the procedure for protesting results is pretty clearly defined in gynmastic rules and they should have known this. Then, they want video used to favorably alter their athlete's score while ignoring and refuting the use of the same video to show that an additional deduction should have been applied to his score.

And Paul Hamm is the "bad sport" in all of this? Please...

[CMJ]

They're still mad about Apollo Ono in Salt Lake. That's what this all boils down to. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it. ;)

[Ryan Pode]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
and I completely agree. I read an article on yahoo that said that since Paul Hamm didn't hand his gold medal over to Yang Tae Young, that he was a great example of BAD sportsmanship!!

Horrid article. I only read two paragraphs. :p


Yahoo has mainly Rueters articles, who are very anti-american.

[jjwr]

ESPN made a point in another of its articles, due to what happened in the All Around with Hamm winning the gold they've said since then in the individual events his scores have been fairly low as sort of a "correction" by the judges.

As they said, if they want the score judged on the scale of 10 rather than 9.9 they would have to take into account things they didn't which would lower the overall score.

Its a BS complaint, like was said above this could be about Apollo Ohno which was a much more valid complaint.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Yahoo has mainly Rueters articles, who are very anti-american.

I suppose your goign to claim Reuters are a terrorist front next. Bloody hell, you say some moronic things.

Personally Hamm won it, so he should keep it. If their was a msitake made by the Koreans or the judges, well I'm afraid they have to live with it.

BTW, the Apollo thing? That's not where Bradbury won the meday cause everyone else crashed out?

[Ryan Pode]

Originally posted by Marcus Telcontar
I suppose your goign to claim Reuters are a terrorist front next. Bloody hell, you say some moronic things.



Have you ever read Rueters? They are fairly Anti-American. Just as Fox news is very conservative. Thats the way it goes. Grow up.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Marcus Telcontar
I suppose your goign to claim Reuters are a terrorist front next. Bloody hell, you say some moronic things.

Personally Hamm won it, so he should keep it. If their was a msitake made by the Koreans or the judges, well I'm afraid they have to live with it.

BTW, the Apollo thing? That's not where Bradbury won the meday cause everyone else crashed out?
Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Have you ever read Rueters? They are fairly Anti-American. Just as Fox news is very conservative. Thats the way it goes. Grow up. No more flaming or flame baiting from either of you.

[Charley]

Holy moly, America just swept the medals in the Men's 400 meter run.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

ARGH PLEASE I LIVE ON THE WEST COAST >_<

:cry I don't know why I should watch it now.

[ReaperFett]

Saw one of the 400m Womens heats. One of the favourites ends up going into the (empty) lane next to her to finish, doesn't get disqualified. How could she not gain an advantage from that?

[Charley]

Man, I feel terrible for Paul Hamm right now.

How can a guy win buckets of medals and still seem like he's getting totally crapped on?

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Marcus Telcontar
BTW, the Apollo thing? That's not where Bradbury won the meday cause everyone else crashed out?

Basically here's the deal. South Korean short track speed skater Kim Dong-sung’ was disqualified in the men’s 1,500 meters. Dong-sung, who would have won the gold medal was charged with cross-tracking Ohno in the race’s final lap. The gold medal was awarded to Ohno while Dong-sung was left with zip. SK threatened not marching in the closing ceremony in protest.

They were mad as hell. The IOC's email inbox was flooded with over 10 thousand emails from angry South Koreans.

[James Prent]

Originally posted by Charley
Man, I feel terrible for Paul Hamm right now.

How can a guy win buckets of medals and still seem like he's getting totally crapped on?

If I were him I'd just want to forget that the Olympics ever happened. This controversy has nearly completely ruined it, at least for him. I hope he can keep his chin up and still make it through this intact.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Australia are in the baseball gold medal playoff.

WTF?

How can the Aussie be in it and not the USA?

Well, I'm sure Cuba or Canada will slaughter Australia in the final.

[jjwr]

USA Didn't even qualify.

Oddly enough th Aussies were in the Softball final too. Those US Women though, not sure where exactly the team came from but they are quite dominant.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Softball I can understand, the Aust team has been good for a long time. And it's a pretty resonably big sport, not in the league of netball but still. There's a decent competition

But Baseball? Hardly anyone plays the game here. Hell, I dont know if there's even a local competition of any sort. I only know of one baseball diamond in Sydney full stop and that was built for the Sydney Olympics.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Charley
Holy moly, America just swept the medals in the Men's 400 meter run.

Jeremy Warner wowed me. He looked so smooth compared to the other guys. Overall the US had another really good day yesterday.

[darth_mcbain]

Yeah - awesome race with Jeremy Warner - he looked great out there...

I'm hoping that NBC is going to start showing some wrestling. I'm getting a little ticked in that it seems like all they show is gymnastics, swimming, track, and women's volleyball. Maybe I'm just watching at the wrong times, but I'd like to see a little more variety in their coverage. That's not to put down the sports I mentioned - they are all great events and deserve good coverage, but I feel NBC is playing it safe by only broadcasting events that get a big draw and barely touching at all on other events.

[CMJ]

MSNBC showed wrestling the last 3 days during their latenight/morning/afternoon coverage

[darth_mcbain]

Ahh - thanks for the heads up - I'll see if I can catch some, or at least try to tape some of it.

[CMJ]

No problem. The networks of NBC has at least touched on just about every event competed. Whether it's Bravo, CNBC, MSNBC,USA, or the mothernetwork. I give them MAJOR props.

I've watched alot of the more minor(for us) stuff on the other channels. It's been great.

(BTW: We got a silver and bronze in women's Greco-Roman yesterday. First time ever women competed in the event)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

The crowd reactions during the mens individual event competition in high bar was incredible. I hope something is done that makes the judges BETTER, because it seems like they suck a lot.

[Charley]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
The crowd reactions during the mens individual event competition in high bar was incredible. I hope something is done that makes the judges BETTER, because it seems like they suck a lot.

I wish the judges wouldn't cave to such immature crowds. If a crowd knows that enough booing will influence them, then what do you think will happen?

Then again, I wish the judges would get it right the first time.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Yeah exactly. I mean, do they have their heads up their butts or something? And then scoring Paul Hamm higher than the Russian (forget his name :uhoh) put him in ANOTHER tight spot. I could almost hear him praying "please make someone score higher than me pleeeeeese!!"

Could you imagine two gold medals out of judging errors!? >_<

And I saw the explaination on how Yun Tae Young should have actually been scored lower, and I think Paul Hamm should be confident now that the gold medal is his, and certainly no one is trying to take it away from him.

Although with So. Korea and the American delegation in talks to possibly award a second gold medal to Young... I hate that! It's like "everyone wins" new age bull crap. Does that mean that Paul Hamm gets another silver medal too, since Young would have a bronze and a gold?!

I hope it doesn't happen.

[JMK]

What a disappointing day. Our baseball team dropped the semi finals to Cuba and now have to play Japan for bronze. The gold medal vs Australia was RIGHT THERE! We had already beaten them 11-0...

And the heavy favorite for the women's 100M hurdles didn't even get over the first hurdle.

On the bright side, we did pick up the gold in women's cycling, and the silver in men's 3M springboard diving.

[Charley]

Australia is putting on one hell of a performance in women's beach volleyball for the bronze. Simply amazing.

[Charley]

...and America wins it. Wow, that was a good watch. The Aussies left it all out there on the sand. Great effort.

[Marcus Telcontar]

One of the Aussie girls in the volleyball re-tore a muscle that was already weak and forced to play on witrh one arm. Aust team were never goign to win after that, but hell, mad props for total courage and commitment.

Not much coverage about the baseballer's getting through, it's all been about the track cyclists this morning. Commiserations on losing the ceretain gold JMK..... There's no way Aust can win against Cuba.

[JMK]

Yep, the one thing I was really hoping for in these Olympics...gone...:grumble

[imported_Marcus]

Please take it. It's like the USA winning cricket.

Ugh.

I cant believe Aust could be Olympic champions. This just isnt right.

Right now, Aust are doing spectularly well all up. Best ever medal count is from Sydney which you would expect. But possibly beaten in Athens?

[CMJ]

You know Marcus, for someone who couldn't care less about the Olympics, you're sure keeping up with what's going on. ;)

[imported_Marcus]

Originally posted by CMJ
You know Marcus, for someone who couldn't care less about the Olympics, you're sure keeping up with what's going on. ;)



Cause it's the only damn thing on the ABC right now. Morgan Evanar can testify how garbage the music stations are. The only sdecent listening is talkback and of course, for this sports obsessed nation, the Olympics take up 15 minutes per hour at the least.

You get called Un-Australian for not being slavishly devoted to the Green and Gold, you get called a queer if you dont sing Waltzing Matilda, your an arrogant <censored> if you dont join in Aussie Aussie Aussie, Oi Oi Oi!


Normally, I'm right in the middle of the singing and chanting, esp at the cricket

You would think it's life and death, so much importance is placed on the Olympics right now. I really hope the federal election is called this weekend, so the papers and radio get off the Aussie blitz.

[CMJ]

Wow, the 1500M was a terrific race with Hicham El Guerrouj holding off a charge in the stretch.

Was thrilled to see Bryan Clay take silver in the decathlon - which is truly one of the most grueling events in sports. The US also took gold in the womens 100M hurdles last night. In addition to the bronze we got in beach volleyball May & Walsh took gold.

I know we got some other medals last night, but those were the three US events I remember best(in addition to the 1500, but I love the longer track distances, so they're always near the top for me)..

[Charley]

El Guerrouj was amazing in the straight-away. I was hoping he would hold onto it and he did. Kudos to him for his effort.

[CMJ]

What was amazing..the Kenyan actually got ahead in the stretch. For El Guerrouj to dig deep like that was special indeed. Heck, it's one of the best Olympic moments so far - especially after he lost control of emotions.

[Dutchy]

Cool, both our field hockey teams play the final this week. :)

[CMJ]

OMG, did anyone see the comeback our volleyball squad had? Unreal. The coverage here is still going on for the night, but that was just amazing.

I was also very happy for the Greek 400 hurdler. The crowd was insane. :cool

[Diego Van Derveld]

Yeah, the volleyball match against the Greeks was epic. I can't believe we shut them down in the fourth match like that. What a performance, especially against the home crowd & all.

I love a good volleyball game, and that one gave me more than my money's worth.

Also, El Guerrouj is running the 5k right now. I'm riveted to the TV. Not often I pull for the foreign talent, but this guy is a total inspiration.

[CMJ]

I guess I'm gonna have to stay up for the late show....to see the 5K heats. NBC has so much coverage its hard to make priorities. We're still in the main night coverage right now(finishing up diving).

Lots of good stuff going on tommorrow. Whether it's morning/afternoon/night. I'm not sure when I'm gonna sleep. Our basketball squad starts at 4:30AM here - if I can I'll wake up for that. So we're looking at about 3 hours of sleep tonight. There may be some dead time during the morning, before some of the other stuff I want to see is broadcast

[Diego Van Derveld]

I'm just glad I got to watch weightlifting :)

Its small concession for me missing shotput :grumble even if I did watch the shotput portion of the decathalon, which was cool.

The decathaletes were putting only about 8 feet longer than I was back in high school. Mind you, they're using olympic 16's and I used varsity 12's, but hell, its almost an ego boost. I wasn't a great putter, but I did place in county finals. My only athletic claim to fame ever.

[CMJ]

Kenenisa Bekele vs El Guerrouj in the 5K final is gonna be great stuff. I didn't know going into the heats that Bekele was in it. He was very impressive in the 10K - not just winning the gold, but demolishing the field.

Just finished watching the US scrape by Spain. Marbury carried the team into the semifinals.

[jjwr]

I wanted to see the game but had to work :(

The report I read about it said there was some heavy foul discrepencies which kept Spain in it.....any truth to it?

[CMJ]

Just about the whole team was in foul trouble, but I'm not sure it wasn't warranted. Spain attacked the basket and drew a bunch of fouls. We played nearly the entire first half without Duncan. It was actually an impressive effort.

[Dutchy]

This thread sucks with all you tape delayed people. :p

[Dan the Man]

Quit your whining or I'll blow up a few dikes and we'll really get to see the Dutch swim team in action :)

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Dutchy
This thread sucks with all you tape delayed people. :p

No one's asking you to stay - or post. :p

We are getting some stuff live. Otherwise I wouldn't have woken up at 4:30 to watch our basketball team., after staying up to 1:30 to watch the 5K heats(which were obviously delayed). I've watched several events live, but as I've said earlier - most of the primo stuff is held till Primetime for the largest viewing audience.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

C'mon Dutchy, you like us anyway. :D

[JMK]

I'm going to have a field day with you in 2010 Dutchy when the winter games are in Vancouver and the circumstances will be the other way around. And since Vancouver happens to be in CMJ's time zone, I'm sure he's going to have 2 weeks worth of field days with you! :p

[CMJ]

Man, I forgot Vancouver got the 2010 Winter Games! Unfortunately I'm sure we'll still get stuff delayed, just not as badly. The East Coast will probably see stuff live and we won't. That's typically how stuff is out here.

Take the Award shows for example. Even though most of them are IN Los Angeles, they're all tape delayed except for the Oscars(thank God those are live) - so we can see them in Primetime. >D

I might try to make it up to Vancover in '10 if I can afford it - even if they're not as fun as the Summer games. Since it's 6 years away, I'd like to think I can. ;)

[JMK]

Originally posted by CMJ
I might try to make it up to Vancover in '10 if I can afford it - even if they're not as fun as the Summer games. Since it's 6 years away, I'd like to think I can. ;)

Maybe because I live in a winter nation I'm biased (though it's friggin hot today!) but I find the winter olympics to be more fun than the summer games. The slalom skiing, the ski jump, bobsled, all very cool stuff, nevermind the hockey!

[Dutchy]

It's just that I can't post here right after I see something. :(

Oh well. :)

Oh, and I always watch sport LIVE! See y'all at that field day in Vancouver. :p

[CMJ]

Women's Water Polo gets bronze and our soccer team gets gold in an incredible match vs Brazil.

[Marcus Telcontar]

http://foxsports.news.com.au/olympics/story/0,9744,10585202-34055,00.html


Good article re : Cost of the games and what happens after.

In regards to Sydney, generally Sydney did make a tidy profit and did reap a lot of benifits. The place is a lot better with transport and the city got one hell of an upgrade. The actual Olypics precinct has found some use (My wife actually works in there) and the main stadiums have found regular events to keep the money coming in.

But Australia, when you consider the population size, has huge stadiums and the people willign to come out to fill them for events. 110,000 for a club game of AFL is not unheard of. The MCG physically is one of the biggest areans int he world, with a seating capacity of 120,000 when all stands are open. In a population of 4 million.

We're sports mad tho.

How will Greece's stadiums go after their Olympics? Given the pictures of empty stands aren't uncommon, you have to wonder. Certainly, there were half filled stadiums in Sydney, but generally, that was the exception, rather than the rule. Most events, even ones without aussie competing were pretty well patronised.

12 billion is however a hell of a lot of money. what on earth did they spend it on?

[jjwr]

I saw a Discovery Channel Special on their preparations, one of things they did was build a entire underground transporation system under the City. It was pretty impressive to see them building it, during the construction they had various delays as they would uncover ancient buildilngs or tap into a old well that was filled with ancient pottery, etc. But the system was massive with various stations through-out the city. Not sure the cost on it but it must have been a monster.

[Dan the Man]

I can't believe we hit the trifecta again. Men's 200 meters, won by a mile.

[CMJ]

The first 5 or so days venues were mostly empty, but over the last week the Greeks(and others) have shown up in large numbers at most everything. The improvements to the infrastructure of the country cannot be oversold either.

****

I also was really happy with our sweep of the 200M. We also got gold and silver in the long jump.

[JMK]

Argentina defeats U.S. 89-81. I guess you can file this under the 'stunner' category because after the U.S. seemingly got their act together against Spain, I thought they would continue on to at least the gold medal game. So now they go for bronze, which I'm sure they'll take, but will anyone really care?

Let the fury begin!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yep, honestly I am glad this team just didn't deserve not the way they played in the beginning. There needs to be an overhaul of the system before they go to China in 2008.

[jjwr]

Agreed, maybe this will be a wake-up call to the US Mens Hoops.

I hope the Womens team wins gold so they can shove it in the mens face and prove that US can still produce a dominating team if they check the ego's and $$$$'s at the door and just play.

[Dutchy]

Bwahahaha the dream team got their rears kicked. :lol

[Dan the Man]

Originally posted by Dutchy
Bwahahaha the dream team got their rears kicked. :lol

Yeah, eight points is an ANNIHILATION :rolleyes

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Dan the Man
Yeah, eight points is an ANNIHILATION :rolleyes

Yeah, as big as their eight figure bank accounts. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Dan the Man
Yeah, eight points is an ANNIHILATION :rolleyes

It is still an embarrasment, it is not like Argentina is a Baskeball powerhouse. I wouldn't rank them in the top 5 of major baskeball countries.

[Dan the Man]

Our team is an embarassment to begin with. Nobody really cares.

[Jedi Master Carr]

True, although that is a shame. Maybe we should go back to the college players at least they would care.

[JMK]

I'm not so sure nobody cares, and I bet many people who say they don't care are saying that only because they couldn't get behind the guys on the team. It is still an embarassment for U.S. men's hoops. To have the best players in the world shown up by guys who are inferior in talent, but miles ahead in desire is embarassing. I give props to the NBA'ers who did decide to give it a go, and I fully blame the marketing gurus who saw it necessary to select raw rookies and street ballers over guys who could compete at the national level.

On the bright side, maybe this becomes a big wake up call to the style of ball played in the NBA because in the past few years, it's been HORRIBLE to watch.

[James Prent]

I give the guys who went to play props for going, and trying. They did improve tremendously as time went on, and although they've lost the gold medal game and will most likely come out with a bronze... It seems they've been working hard!

It's just a shame that other players who were invited didn't go because of egos, or fear of terrorism, or whatever. As I remember it, it wasn't that better players weren't asked to go, they just opted not to go.

And c'mon - putting Lebron James on the bench for most of some of the games couldn't have been the teams fault. What the heck was wrong with the coach!?

[JMK]

Given the group they got stuck with, I don't think they would have won the gold no matter who Larry Brown decided to put out there.

[Master Yoghurt]

Maybe its time for NBA patriots to admit, non americans can also play basketball. Sure, you may have the most talented players in the world, but individual skill is not necessarily going to be enough if the opponent got better team play, smarter tactics and more desire to win. Maybe its time to realize the gap in talent is not what it used to be, and the competition hardened. Forreign teams play a lot better than they used to. The era where your national team could routinely dominate international events, may actually be a thing of the past.

Its the same in football (English style). There were a select few nations that would dominate championships like the worldcup and the european cup, but now the field has widened, and there are room for surprises.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well that is true Yog but the NBA game has just gotten horrible. It is because they don't play team game they play all of this one-on one garbage. That isn't basketball, that is the reason why the NBA stinks and I refuse to watch it. Which is why team USA got beat partly at least. They are better off sending college players next time.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Dutchy
Bwahahaha the dream team got their rears kicked. :lol

STFU - there was only one "Dream Team" and that was in 1992. Even the Gold Medal teams of '96 and '00 couldn't hold their jocks. Other than Tim Duncan, I wouldn't put any of these guys on that squad.

James Prent - Lebron James shouldn't have gotten much more playing time than he recieved. He's a great young kid, but despte what the marketers say, he's not one of our top players...yet.

I'm terribly frustrated right now. The gap has seriously closed, but we should still have won, even with THIS team. I've been saying for years that Team USA needs more prep time for these international tournaments. And the dozen or so guys that refused to go need to be humiliated right now.

I'm gonna go throw up.

[jjwr]

Maybe its time for NBA patriots to admit, non americans can also play basketball.

Of course they can play basketball, no one ever said otherwise...Yao Ming, Nowitzki, Gasoul, Peja.....some of the best NBA Players are foreign players.

The problem is not with the Players, I'm sorry but its naive to say the world is on equal terms as the US in Basketball.

What they do better is prepare for the event, the problem with the US is Preperation and team selection. If you took this same team and gave them a month to practice it would be a totally different result. Not a dominant team by far but they would probably win gold.

Mens USA Hoops is whacked, NBA style ball is much more uptempo, before recently it was all Man 2 Man, zones were not allowed. Even now it is only a modified Zone so the players aren't really used to it.

This loss should prompt change, if the NBA wants to have its players in the Olympics they will have to change. Selection process will change and so will prep time.

2008 will be a different story, we may very well see a altered NBA schedule every 4 years to allow for the players to practice.

As for the selection, the team was poorly chosen, way too many players were similar to each other. Drop a few of the SG/SF type players and throw in some sharp shooters like Reggie Miller or even Antoine Walker! Someone who can actually shoot a 3 on occasion and has played more than 2 years in the league.

[Jedieb]

The NBA would have been better off sending the Pistons or even a Shaqless Lakers. ANY of the NBA teams that made the conference finals would have won a gold medal. That's what we needed, a TEAM, not a bunch of talented guys thrown together without enough prep time.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
STFU - there was only one "Dream Team" and that was in 1992.

BS. A gold medal for the US in basketball is a shoe in ever since 1992. Or at least they thought so themselves, for sure.

Basketball is one of America's major sports and millions of dollars go round in the NBA. Whether you call them dream team or not, it's a major embarrassment them not winning gold, but I see you're not denying.

[CMJ]

Just NEVER call any team a Dream Team other than '92. That's a term that deserves to be retired. I think eleven of the 12 guys on that team are either in the Hall of Fame or will be there.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Jedieb
The NBA would have been better off sending the Pistons or even a Shaqless Lakers. ANY of the NBA teams that made the conference finals would have won a gold medal. That's what we needed, a TEAM, not a bunch of talented guys thrown together without enough prep time.

Yeah, exactly.

We kinda have the same with soccer. Lots of talented players, but no real team.

Unlike the Greek, who totally unexpected became European Champions. One of the biggest upsets in sport ever. No star players, but a real team.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
Just NEVER call any team a Dream Team other than '92. That's a term that deserves to be retired. I think eleven of the 12 guys on that team are either in the Hall of Fame or will be there.

True, 1992's team was one of a kind.

Fact remains that a US basketball team is thought to be superior to any other country.

[JMK]

The other part of the equation is that you have to get an Olympic gold medal to MEAN something to these millionnaires. Sure, for a week after winning and all the photo ops are done and the endorsements are signed, the medal becomes history for these guys. But deep down, I'm not so sure they really care about the gold as much as some of the other nations do. I'd wager that 90% of the players on that team are glad to be going home, with or without a medal, they can have their off season back and relax in their MTV Crib. Sure, it hurts like hell to lose, but does the hurt come from the realization that you've failed (as a team), or the fact that you will have to go home and endure endless heckling from fans and media? I The crap that is slung their way will have a huge impact on which players decide to play in 2008. Add this loss to the fact there was no U.S. baseball team and that makes for one upset pro sports fanbase. But everyone knows that the U.S. CAN put a winning, even dominating team on the court or the diamond, it's just getting those teams there.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Change of subject -

Hi Dutchy. 2-1.

Neyh Neyh

This now is australia's most successful Olympics, much to the disbelief of all here. No expected the team to get close to the Sydney effort.

tonight it'll be Aust vs USA in the womens basketball - expecting a USA victory but it will be close.

[CMJ]

I totally agree on the caring aspect Kyle. I'm sure acouple of the guys really wanted to win, but gettng a gold medal in basketball is not something that's drummed into kids like winning the NBA championship - or even the Final Four.

What's crazy is in tennis the big tournies are the Slams, but most of the bigtime players took the Olympics very seriously even though they were getting no Tour points out of it. Roger Federer for instance said one of his 2 goals of the year was to win the Gold Medal(he lost early though). Not sure what we can do to make that kind of thought cross over.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Here is a good article

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer04/basketball/news/story?id=1869474

Honestly they need more shooters. Why not Pierce or Miller?? I am guessing they wanted to bring in guys who had never won a gold, which is why Miller was excluded (although I think he was hurt for Sydney and had to watch) I bet Miller would have said yes, and same with Pierce should have took them and let James and Anthony stay home.

[CMJ]

Huina Xing won the women's 10K in a pretty exciting race. This was notable for me because typically the Ethiopians or Kenyans win the long distance track events, so this was kinda cool to see. It's like watching Team USA lose to Argentina except for Long Distance running.:cool

[jjwr]

Like some have said they went the young trendy athletic route, the guys who picked the team are going to start picking up a lot of slack.

I'm sure the reason Pierce didn't even get asked is he was on the '02 team that lost in the World Championships, that team was even worse.

I feel bad for Duncan, he's one of the classiest guys out there and he's gonna take this one rough.

Pau Gasol of Spain said winning a Gold Medal would be the greatest moment of his life, and this is a legit NBA star, 20+ ppg, he specifically said he would rather have the gold than a NBA title, and thats the big difference.

Another note about the team that beat them, apparently the majority of that team has been together for 6-8yrs, so they know how to play in their system and with each other. The US Players didn't.

Are they great ball players? Of course they are, if they werne't they would have lost by a lot more. On more or less pure talent alone the US team almost got to the Gold Medal game. If the US actually put together a Team with some legit NBA studs and plenty of role players and built a team a Gold would be almost a lock.

[CMJ]

I saw an interview with Coach Brown about 20 minutes ago on Bravo's coverage. Like he said - they've only been together 30 days and is just now playing like a team. Think about that....

I said it before, but I'll say it again. THEY NEED TO PRACTICE TOGETHER FOR LONGER THAN THEY DO!!

[Dan the Man]

I just can't get enthusiastic about pro basketball :\

I'm one of those snobbies that thinks the best sports are played amateur / collegiate :cool

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Dan the Man


I'm one of those snobbies that thinks the best sports are played amateur / collegiate :cool

There's a lot of truth in that :)

[Dan the Man]

I'm sure a lot of it is due to me living in a city that has no major league professional teams in any sport, but I've never really gotten into any pro sports. I can watch casually, but I just don't care all that much.

Now, if we're talking college sports, I'll turn into a face-painting, screaming animal. Even for gymnastics.

Our gymnastics team is awesome

[CMJ]

I definitely prefer college football and basketball to the pro's. I hardly even watch the pro's in those sports anymore - until the playoffs. Nonetheless, I'm pretty nationalistic and hate getting whipped at our own game.>D

[Marcus Telcontar]

Nonetheless, I'm pretty nationalistic and hate getting whipped at our own game.

It's not 'your' game anymore. Tonight's womens game will probably make that clearer. While it's true THE comptition is NBA/WNBA, it's no longer the domain of USA stars. Remeber what I posted earlier in the thread, Lauren Jackson is the best player in the world (arguably) and half a dozen Aussie girls are WNBA based.

This wont be the walkover 2000 gold medal playoff was.

Fearless prediction - tonight's game will be a Athens highlight. Most of the USA's game will be based on shutting Jackson down and if they do that, then they should win. If they dont, the upset is on. In fact, I think this game's got so much potential to be a great contest, I'm staying up to watch. Still, I dont think this'll be the year the USA gets beaten, Beijing looks more likely IMO. But it's gonna be a good one.

[Marcus Telcontar]

http://www.smh.com.au/olympics/articles/2004/08/27/1093518096387.html

Sometimes, I'm reminded of the Eat Germans with this rather ruthless science backed program the AIS has. In fact, I wouldnt be surprised if the comparision was apt... except that the East Germans were drugged up.

I think the East German comparision is apt as you have two relatively small countires, producing athletes at much higher per capita rates. Of course, the big hole in the program is athletics and I dont see that changing soon - there's not a big history of anything than running. Could change.

If yu ever get the chance, look over the AIS in Canberra. It's amazing.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Marcus Telcontar
Change of subject -

Hi Dutchy. 2-1.

Neyh Neyh



Yeah, we lost both field hockey finals. :(

[jjwr]

I've been seeing the score update live, very close game! Wish I could see it.

In 4 years Taurasi of the US should be the best women hoops player in the world, she's not too far from it now. The girl is incredible.

Out of curiosity why are the Aussie women so good at hoops and not much heard about the men?

As far as Pro vs College. It depends, College hoops is a much more pure game, especially womens hoops. The big difference is the talent level, most of the college players can't do those sick 1 on 1 moves and as such play in a system, but NBA has all the top guys who can play that way so most of the games are that way.

As for College FB....sorry but I still think its a joke, any sport which decides its champion based on a computer ranking, sports writers poll and coaches poll has issues.

[CMJ]

JJ the women's game was on USA. I watched the second half(was asleep during the 1st - sleep deprivation catching up to me). And Marcus...Basketball will always be our game. ;)

Ice Hockey is Canada's and they went like 40 years without a gold. If we don't change how we run Team USA, that will be our fate as well.

[jjwr]

Actually after checking out the score online I tried the TV and was able to catch the last minute and a half. Oh well, at least I saw some of it :)

[CMJ]

I'm furious at the institution of USA Basketball, but I'm very proud of the guys. I hope they all get a chance to win the gold in '08 or '12(or whenever). Preperation for Beijing starts tommorrow as far as I'm concerned.

[Marcus Telcontar]

74-63


I called it :)


Watch out for Beijing, I think.


Out of curiosity why are the Aussie women so good at hoops and not much heard about the men?

Cultural, I think. Netball is THE women's game in Austrlia. Basketball courts are rare, netball courts are very common and on the weekends, imagine 20 + courts in the one place with thousands of women playing over the course of a day. It's not that far from Basketball, crossing over isnt all that hard. So bizarrely, Basketball is viewed as a women's sport.

[CMJ]

I got this off of MSNBC. Looks like China is gonna bring it. Game on. ;)

*************************
Beijing could be most competitive Olympics yet

China plans to use Games to show the world’s most populous nation is force to be reckoned with — and not only in sports
A massive propaganda machine is spreading awareness of sports and Olympic traditions among China’s 1.3 billion people. The government is falling over itself to prepare infrastructure — even changing laws to please IOC officials.

The Associated Press

Updated: 2:33 p.m. ET Aug. 28, 2004

ATHENS, Greece - Even before the athletes claim all the gold at the Athens Games, the buildup to the 2008 Beijing Olympics is in full swing.

They could be the most elaborate, best organized and most competitive games ever. They could also be the toughest yet for the United States.

“It’s almost like a buildup to a war,” said Bob Condron, a spokesman for the U.S. Olympic Committee.

The countdown to China begins Sunday, when Beijing’s mayor takes possession of the Olympic flag during an eight-minute pageant at the Athens closing ceremony tying ancient Olympia to the Great Wall of China. Directing is Zhang Yimou, famous for his visually lush movies including “Raise the Red Lantern” and the Oscar-nominated “Hero.”

China wants to show that it is going all out, and this is a country that knows how to go all out. After all, it built the Great Wall. It recently remodeled its largest cities, sacrificing entire neighborhoods for six-lane avenues and skyscrapers. In 1958, it implemented a misguided industrialization plan with such fervor that 40 million people starved to death.

Now, after a two-decade shift from closed socialist fiefdom toward global economic powerhouse, China plans to use the Olympics to demonstrate that the world’s most populous nation is a surging force to be reckoned with — and not only in sports.

“The games will be a kind of vehicle to showcase China opening up,” said Wang Wei, secretary-general of the organizing committee. “China is the biggest developing country, the fastest-growing economy, and the Olympics enjoy the greatest popular support in China.”

Condron put it more simply: “This is the biggest coming-out party in history.”

Organizers are trying to calm concerns over their nation’s humans rights record — which has drawn protests in Athens — and pledging not to stifle the 20,000 journalists expected to journey to Beijing.

To be a success, China believes, everything will have to be perfect.

In sharp contrast to Greece, which finished Olympic venues only days before the games began, China drew up plans to complete everything two years early. A massive propaganda machine is spreading awareness of sports and Olympic traditions among China’s 1.3 billion people. The government is falling over itself to prepare infrastructure — even changing laws to please IOC officials.

“If you need a million men to finish a stadium, you make a phone call and they’re there overnight,” said Bud Greenspan, the Olympic documentary filmmaker, who has worked closely with Chinese organizers.

The Chinese people are no less passionate about the games than their government. When the Olympic torch came through China in June on its way to Greece, Wang said, more than 1 million people turned out to see it pass.

“The celebration, the atmosphere was great,” he said. “Just imagine when the Beijing opening ceremony takes place. It’s going to be fantastic!”

The government recently revised its construction plans, delaying them to finish one year before the games. The reason? The International Olympic Committee, accustomed to pressuring host nations to speed up their efforts, suggested China slow down to avert a cash-flow problem.

To the dismay of other nations, the IOC can offer no such guidance to China’s sports machine. It is roaring ahead with a single goal: to destroy all competition in 2008. The United States, the medals leader in Athens, is enemy No. 1.

“The Chinese buildup is the most massive in sports history,” Condron said. “They may be so good that they could put the medals race out of sight.”

China participated in 14 of 28 sports in Sydney. In Athens, it is competing in 26. Its goal in 2008 is to enter athletes in every sport — athletes who can win.

“They’re going to swamp everybody,” Greenspan said with a chuckle.

He Huixian, a vice chairman of the Chinese Olympic Committee, said his nation has stepped up training for young people in sports like swimming and track and field — competitions in which many medals are awarded but China has traditionally fielded weak teams.

Those efforts have already begun to pay off: Look no further than China’s two gold medals in track and field Friday.

Other sports powers — the United States, Russia, Germany and Australia — also are targeting resources to boost athlete training, but China’s push is more efficient because the government funds and exerts strong control over sports.

Children are tested at a young age to determine if their bodies will develop appropriately for a certain sport, then are placed into government-funded sports schools that have demanding training schedules but offer major perks for the children’s families.

The head of the Russian Olympic delegation observed that the Chinese system is really the old Soviet system, and “they just took it from us.”

China’s delegation to Athens even sacrificed some older athletes in favor of less qualified younger ones, so they could gain Olympic experience that will help them triumph in 2008.

“If the home team doesn’t perform well, you don’t have a good atmosphere in the games,” Wang said.

Asked whether that meant China would steamroll over the competition, Wang gave a knowing smile and a humble response.

“No need to be frightened,” he said.

© 2004 The Associated Press.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5851082/ interesting article about Iverson's post Olympic comments. :)

[CMJ]

I saw that article earlier. Who woulda thought AI would be the guy that calls out the other US players like this? He has jumped several pegs in my book over the last couple of weeks.

[JMK]

Just prior to the Olympics his stock fell for me when it was reported that he has several thousand dollars in unpaid parking tickets, many of which came from parking his rolls royce in a handicapped spot. But I love the way he plays.

[CMJ]

El Guerrouj!!!!

First man to win both the 1500 and 5000 in 80 years. :cool We scored a silver in the 4x100 relay because of some bad exchanges. We take both the 4x400 relays though. :D

Going into the final day of competition the US has won 100 medals, and we're assured of at least one more in boxing.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
I got this off of MSNBC. Looks like China is gonna bring it. Game on. ;)

*************************
Beijing could be most competitive Olympics yet

Interesting.

If that Chinese who equaled Colin Jackson's 110m hurdles world record is the first sign, then we're really up for something.

That was totally unexpected and spectacular, him running 12.91s on the 110m hurdles.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by CMJ
We scored a silver in the 4x100 relay because of some bad exchanges.

I still think Greene beat the big chested Englishman. It sure looked that way.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I think the big improvers in Beijing will be China (obviously) and Australia - there are so many 4th places being racked up by young up and comers, the future is looking very bright. Plus, Beijing is much more like a home event. Is it even possible for Australia to improve on their best ever result?

Beijing will be interesting.

And in the Out of the Blue results, the Aust 4 * 400 m relay score silver. WTF?

[CMJ]

From that article even the Russians are comparing the Chinese system to the old Soviet one. Training kids from the time they are old enough to walk was a pretty unfair advantage for the old communist block. China is gonna be a major player from now on it appears.

For all you old timers that hearken back to the rivalry between the US and the USSR - we might be getting a redux. ;)

[Master Yoghurt]

Its been a good olympics for Norway. 5 goldmedals from a country with only 4.5 million citizens, and with a climate biased towards wintersports. For perspective, thats like the US would win 325 goldmedals.

[CMJ]

Speaking of which....what city since you started watching the Games has been the best host for each? This doesn't mean which Games were your favorite, simply what place had their act together the best.

For me -

Winter: Lillehammer
Summer: Sydney

[Cirrsseeto Quez]

Originally posted by CMJ
El Guerrouj!!!!

First man to win both the 1500 and 5000 in 80 years. :cool We scored a silver in the 4x100 relay because of some bad exchanges. We take both the 4x400 relays though. :D


I wish I'd gotten to see it. The two things I wanted to see more than anything were the 5k and the 4x400, and I missed em both :\

Crapola.

[CMJ]

Holy cow Meb Keflezighi of the USA gets the silver in the marathon! First time ever we got medals in both marathons.

What a bizarre incident with the Brazilian runner though.

[spada]

yea sucked for him...the guy had a freakin kilt on too.

Hilights for me were;

1. 1,2,3 USA 400 meters mens
2. 1,2,3 USA 200 meters mens
3. USA womens beach volleyball finals
4. Cael Sanderson's 185lbs freestyle wrestling finals
5. 4x400 mens USA team kicking everyones toockusses