NFL: General Discussion

[Figrin D'an]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1846012


Good grief... the Fins just can't win, can they? They spend all that money to get Williams, so they finally have an impact running back, and then he decides to jump ship from football completely in the prime of his career.

He's always been a guy that has "marched to his own drum," so to speak, but this is pretty bizarre.

[JMK]

I am stunned. I thought this was going to be a terrible year for the Dolphins...they'd be lucky to get 9 wins, but now I'd be shocked if they won more than 7. :cry

[Jedi Master Carr]

This is shocking, Williams is kind of odd, not sure what is going on with him. This won't help Miami at all, really he should have done this to them before Eddie George got released then they could have got him but now there is nothing out there.

[jjwr]

I was shocked when I read about this......

As a Patriots fan their main division rival was just dealt a huge blow, they have always had a shaky passing game but with a back like Williams they could use him to help drive the passing game....but now? So as a Pats fan I am thrilled, that will make the division that much easier this year(watch the Dolphins sweep them now!).

As a Football fan though its really really odd.....why would he wait until a week before Training Camps start to announce this? If he has any respect for the team this would have been done months ago so the team could have found a suitable replacement, he really puts them in a bad situation.

Not to mention they gave up 2 first round picks for him, had he played for 5 more years at 1,250+ yards it would have been worth it but for 2 years? The Phins got hosed in this, this could really hurt them.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I have no clue, one of the reasons he gave was the two times the NFL caught him with drugs in his system, whatever that means. He also must not of cared about the Dolphins or he would have retired on them two weeks ago before George got signed by Dallas, if he had done that they could have signed him or Smith but now they are stuck. This is worse than Barry sanders too, Barry had played like 10 years and had accomplished a lot and was on a losing team which had no hope, I didn't blame him, Williams just seems like a head case or something.

Also this from Clayton
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=1846119

He said the Dolphins could sue him for millions, it is in his contract. I would do that if I were them maybe make him play.

[JMK]

A month notice would have been much appreciated. That way they could have signed Antowain Smith, and learned the Patriots' whole playbook. That would have been sweet. Now we're screwed. Travis Minor won't carry the mail for this team Fiedler and Feely are going to get ripped apart because of this. The worst part is that this may give Wannstedt another excuse and another year as the head coach. I hope the Dolphins start out 0-4 and fire the the Coach and GM, just completely clean house. Then in the off season, cut every expensive veteran except for Surtain and Taylor and start over completely.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I guess they could trade that DE who is holding out (his name escapes me) Hey my chiefs could give you Larry Johnson for him :p

[Ryan Pode]

Ogunleye. Raven's can afford him. He'd be nice. So would Junior Seau.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I wouldn't be trading any backs if I were you Jamal Lewis still has a court date coming up :p Seriously there are rumors involving Chicago and Anthony Thomas that actually makes sense.

[jjwr]

ESPN was talking about the Ogunleye trade as well, he was holding out anyways so if the team can get a serviceable back for him then thats a bonus.

Even if he's sued I doubt he's coming back, apparently he gave notice to the team and boarded a plane and was gone, so the guy is already in Asia apparently.

Outside of Anthony Thomas I don't know who is out there that would be a decent pick-up.

[JMK]

It's amazing how quickly the Dolphins have become the joke of the NFL.
Going back to the end of the '03 season:

- They miss the playoffs despite a 10-6 record, largely aided by a week 1 loss to Houston.
- The removal of Wannstedt's personnel duties and the hiring of Rick Spielman as GM and the continuing lack of guidance, clarity and direction
- Dan Marino ran away as fast as he could after being hired.
- Ogunleye won't sign, even though he should recognize that 50% of his success comes from Taylor and Thomas being double teamed all the time
- And worst of all...still keeping that bum Fiedler.

What a mess. :rolleyes

[jjwr]

Yup they are a mess, like ESPN said this will pretth much be the final nail in the Wandstedt coffin.

The amazing thing is the guy is still even around, the team has been right there the past few years, some very solid teams but always lacking in a few key area's and never quite able to make that next step. In the today's win-now world of sports it really is incredible no major changes have happened there.

[JMK]

Oh yeah, I did forget to mention Ricky's drug bust, and Randy McMichael getting busted for domestic abuse.

I wonder if Ricky is just sitting out some extra time? He was pretty much not going to get paid for the first 4 games because of fines etc...

[jjwr]

One of the columns I read he had said the drug accusations were definetly a part of it, whether he didn't want to face the heat or want his name out there in bad light, who knows.

[JMK]

Part of me thinks that he is just like every other pro athlete, that is, they are more concerned with the business side of things and he doesn't like the idea of not being paid for his first 4 games.
The other part of me thinks that he just wants to smoke weed and not face any consequences for it. I don't think it has anything to do with not liking football anymore. From all reports, he was in fantastic shape from working hard all off season. I guess if he decides to come back at mid season or something, we will have our answer.

[jjwr]

For some really good insight into the situation check out this article by Peter King, his Monday Morning QB Column on CNNSI.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/peter_king/07/25/07.25.04/index.html

[Ryan Pode]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Well I wouldn't be trading any backs if I were you Jamal Lewis still has a court date coming up :p


Please. We all know Jamal will not get charged for any time.


And the more I've thought about it, the more I've felt bad for Miami.

[jjwr]

Just because he doesn't get charged in court doesn't mean the NFL won't levy their own suspension on him.

Right now they are looking at Court Dates in February so the Ravens are lucky in that respect, but the court has already said they will not move their schedule around his career, so if it does conflict at some point he could miss some time just from that.

[Ryan Pode]

He has to have done something to get punished.

[jjwr]

By the Law yes, but the NFL has its own rules and it can be punish players as it see's fit. Players get caught with "drugs" all the time that came from over the counter stuff, to the NFL it doesn't matter.

And again if the Trial gets shifted around and his presense is required he could easily miss a few games because of that.

[JMK]

Wouldn't that be a shame? ;)

[Ryan Pode]

Two Words: Musa Smith

[jjwr]

The Ravens were a marginal Playoff team last year....replacing Lewis with Musa Smith for a long period of time will spell disaster for the team.

Not sure about JMK(as you can never tell about those Dolphins fans!) but I'm not trying to pile on you here, just being realistic, being a fan of your team is one thing but try and listen to reason too :)

[JMK]

I'm piling on alleged violent criminals in sports, in this case the NFL. I don't have a problem with the Ravens at all. :)

[Ryan Pode]

Conspiracy to sell drugs is hardn't violent. Aggravated Assault is violent.

Jamal Lewis was a product of a good coaching, you have to remember, Brian Billick is one of the best offensive minds around, he's just lacked a good QB for his tenure.

[JMK]

And just for the record, I do hope that Randy McMichael pays a steep penalty for beating his pregnant wife.

[Ryan Pode]

I think he--and all others that commit crimes like that, should be banned from the NFL. Is that who they want kids to look up to?

[jjwr]

His wife was pregnant? Geez......

I always liked Billick as a coach but its odd that once he went to Baltimore the offense sucked and his defense has been great.

Makes you wonder if the few years at Minnesota was partly Green, you would think with a back and a offensive line like they have they could cobble together at least a defensive passing attack.

[Ryan Pode]

It's the quarterback. Brian Billick has never had a decent QB. Ted Marchiabroda did, but Billick has had such great talent like Jeff Blake, Trent Dilfer, and Chris Redman.

[Jedi Master Carr]

well Williams made it official today

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpZ2NvMjltBF9TAzk1ODYxMDU5BHNlYwN0 aA--?slug=ap-williamsretires&prov=ap&type=lgns
and I guess the main reason he is retiring is he is a dope head and wants to keep doing it. What ever, he can go lose his brain cells in another country.

[Morgan Evanar]

Urm, well, I guess I just watch more college ball this year. Oh well.

[jjwr]

One interesting note I read on www.cnnsi.com is that the Dolphins may trade the rights to him, apparently someone reported if he plays again it will only be Texas or California.

[Jedi Master Carr]

So that would mean it would by the Texans or Raiders (the chargers and Cowboys have running backs). I ship him to the Texans let him rot in Houston. But if he wants to do marajauin all the time I can't see him playing again the NFL would bust him everytime and eventually his supsensions would lead to life.

[Jedieb]

There were rumors that Williams had been taking a masking agent to cover up his MJ use and just stopped taking it before this last test. His retirement is bizarre, but not out of character for him. I'd be surprised if he ever comes back. I just don't think the game and its trappings mean that much to him. The Fins are done. Yeah, the NFL surprises us year after year, but I don't see how the Dolphins can recover from this. I feel bad for Fin fans. First they embarrassas themselves with the whole Marino is/isn't a figurehead debacle, and a few months later comes this bombshell. Buh, bye Dave, your days are numbered.

[JMK]

I know you're saying that just to put the screws to me ya bastard! ;)

[jjwr]

I gotta agree with the Yankee fan on this one :)

Fish are done. Personally I don't see anything wrong with what Ricky did, if I had the chance to retire at 27 with 15 Million in the bank and travel the world I think I'd seriously be considering it.

How he did it is the problem, do what you want to do but don't screw the team in the process, he had been thinking about this for a while and could have made this announcement even 2 weeks sooner so the team could have gone after George/Smith.

The fact that Wanndsadt is still the coach is amazing, the team had too much talent not to get anywhere the past few years, a change was definetly needed.

[JMK]

Don't I know it. Wannstedt should have been canned before the 2003 season. I have a problem with Ricky retiring for more selfish reasons...he's a great player. But I do acknowledge that I would probably consider retiring early as well, while I could still walk, speak and think straight. But IMO he really should have done this the way Robert Smith did it; right after the season ended. Give the whole staff time to evaluate and make a choice rather than just start panicking and throwing money at anyone available.

[JMK]

Another star player not playing because of drugs:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1852011

Quincy Carter of the Cowboys has been released after testing positive for cocaine (reportedly). Ugh...when are these guys going to learn?

It's like Robin Williams famous quote: "Cocaine is God's way of saying you're making too much money."

And how. :\

[jjwr]

I couldn't believe this when I heard, especailly playing for that team and that coach, he had to have known there would be problems.

PTI on ESPN said that last year a well known drug counselor was on the side-lines during games, makes you wonder if they knew about this all along and he just couldn't clean himself up.

[Jedieb]

JMK, you know I've always had a soft spot for you and the Fins. I feel bad for you. You guys have had some horrible luck these last few years. Double digit wins, but no playoffs. Now the best back in the history of the franchise goes Bobby Fisher on you. It's not fair. Now we'll have to suffer through the Pats tearing through that division. Ughh.

Carter can probably force the Cowboys to pay him his salary for this year. The rumors are that the failed drug test was administered by the Cowboys and that's against the CBA. If the Union follows up on it the Jerry Jones is probably screwed. And let's review this dullard of a GM. His diamond in rough Chad Hutchinson was cut a few weeks ago, and now his 2nd round "steal" gets waived. Parcells must get sick to his stomach some times.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Of course they could just say they cut him because he sucks :p Do they really need a reason? And what about Tim Brown getting released. Now is that a slap in the face or what, Al Davis is a jerk I hate that man, I would love to see KC pick him up like that did Marcus Allen that would just be hilarious. Also speaking of the Oakland criminals I mean Raiders, Ricky said he might come back and play with him. Hmm he would fit right in with that group of druggies.

[jjwr]

Well Brown is pretty much used up, the Raiders kept him well after they should have, the guy has been playing for 16 years, and yeah Rice has played that long but your typical 16yr receiver isn't very good. Its unfortunate but eventually the Raiders need to go with younger players and its happening.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well they aren't going with younger players, really, they keep signing old guys (Sapp, Washington) the franchise is moving no where, I think they ware going to stink for a long time, till either Davis turns the franchise over to somebody else or he dies.

[Ryan Pode]

I think Rice is going to break this year... literally. He's almost as old as my mom. :\

[JMK]

Sweet fancy Moses if Ricky Williams joins the Raiders next year I'm going to walk right into that miserable stadium and strangle him to death. I can't stand the Raiders or their wacky fans who swagger like their team is a dynasty.

[jjwr]

Agreed, but like Ricky himself said, he would fit right in over there.

They are younger in the receiver corps, but like ESPN said Brown is just yet another player that Davis held onto way too long .

They should have bagged this year, they drafted an absolute stud tackle, cut the old players, give your young guys some looks and build for next year, instead they filled up with re-treads which will win them some games but ultmately leave them short of really accomplishing anything.

[Jedieb]

Brown just wasn't willing to be a number 3, 4, or 5 receiver. He had too much pride for that. I actually think Davis, who is a nutcase, was pretty fair with Brown. Right now Brown's agent is talking with Denver. Holy cow, you'd think Brown would burst into flames the first time he'd put a Denver uniform on, wouldn't you? Brown just doesn't have the speed to be a #1 or 2 receiver anymore. Even if he lands a job this year, this will probably be the end of his career.

The test Carter failed was a league adminstered one so he's got no grievence with the Cowboys and apparently no hard feelings either. His days in Dallas were numbered anyway. At times, he really did suck. I was never really impressed by his main strength, his athletism. He wasn't that great of a scrambler and couldn't throw that well on the run. The Cowboys probably are better off with Vinny, but I don't see how that body can stay healthy all season. They overachieved last year and they might find themselves lucky to get 8 or 9 wins this year.

[JMK]

I tend to agree about the Cowboys situation. The Parcells/Testaverde connection may spin some magic in Dallas, but for exactly how long is the big question. Drew Henson won't be ready to play this year and if he's forced to start the Cowboys will really be in tough. If Carter can win 10 games and not have the ability to throw a ball in to the sea from a boat, then I think they can squeeze 10 wins from Vinny/Henson/Romo. On the downside though, lets not forget that they now have Meshawn to seal with. He could help or hinder them, I don't think he'll care if Parcells is coaching...then again, Tuna would cut him in a flash if he opens his trap.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Also the divisions is harder, Philadelphia is better than last season and Washington is a lot better than last season. Dallas will finish third, IMO. Brown, well I hope he don't go to Denver although he might not help them any, I was hoping maybe the Chiefs (I love seeing them pick up former Raiders just to make Davis mad) but if he has lost a step he sure won't help KC at all.

[Ryan Pode]

I think Testeverde has enough juice left in him for one season left just as Kurt Warner does. I think Philly will not work.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think they will the division, they could make it to the SB in the weak NFC anything is possible.

[jjwr]

Hits keep coming for the Dolphins, they just lost Boston for the season.....ouch.....

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I saw that, that hurts.

[JMK]

I'm going to just go ahead and hang myself now.....

[Jedieb]

They say these things come in 3's. So maybe your hanging will finally end the Fins' training camp nightmare? Man, they really needed everything to click in the passing game to help out the running game. I just don't see what the hell they're going to be able to do now.

[Ryan Pode]

I'ma laugh if the Dolphins end up having a miracle season and win 12+ games... not that it'll happen.

[JMK]

Originally posted by Jedieb
They say these things come in 3's. So maybe your hanging will finally end the Fins' training camp nightmare? Man, they really needed everything to click in the passing game to help out the running game. I just don't see what the hell they're going to be able to do now.

What they really needed to complete the circuit was to have McMichael's domestic abuse charge go through and him sent to the slam, not having the charges dropped. Besides, one could argue that Wannstedt keeping his job was the first big blow, Ricky being the second and Boston being the third.

If the Dolphins are to win any games this year, they'll all have to be by 6-3 scores. :\

[jjwr]

Well at least now the Dolphins lack of a QB won't hurt them so much :)

[Jedieb]

Besides, one could argue that Wannstedt keeping his job was the first big blow, Ricky being the second and Boston being the third.
:lol You're right, that was the first blow.

So, who's going to be this year's Carolina? It's every year now we get someone out of nowhere to either make the playoffs, or even get to the Superbowl. I think Arizona might be this year's Cinderela team.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Nah Arizona has too many problems. I don't know honestly it will have to be an NFC team just because the NFC is mostly in shambles heh. New Orleans maybe, although would that be a surprise? Not sure who else Chicago? I'd say Atlanta will have the biggest turn around but that is because Vick is healthy.

[Ryan Pode]

If Arizona showed signs of a defense, I could see them going far. I've been waiting for New Orleans to come together, but they haven't so I wouldn't expect them. I could see however the Bills really coming out this year and beating quality teams. They have the defense and with Moulds and co. healthy they could have a strong reciever core. Bledsoe is due for a rebound this season.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Bills are possible now that Miami is weakened. Not sure where the Jets are going. Other teams Cleveland (getting Garcia was a good move), Detriot (hey they can't get any worse :p), the NY Giants, and Houston (they could surprise some people. That is about it really.

[Ryan Pode]

Cleveland is a no go. They need to show they can stop the run before they win. Detroit has some chance as does Houston. The Giants could go either way really, depends how Warner plays.

[jjwr]

Detroit is a definite possibility, a lot of the teams mentioned should still be a year away, Cardinals, Houston, Cleveland. They will all do well but not make a huge run.

The Bills could be very good, they still had a solid core last year but the coaching staff wasn't exactly doing the right things. Lets see, stud RB, no WR's...hmmmm....lets throw the ball a lot even though our line sucks at pass protection. This year they should be a totally different team.

Jaguars will be much improved as will the Falcons, so many choices.....

[JMK]

Ah, the joy of trying to figure out the NFL. Don't any of you remember how our NFL picks pool goes? One week you're 14-2, the next you're 6-10?

That being said, the Bungles are my cinderella team. :p

[jjwr]

The Bungles may be good too, its going to be so hard to tell this year.

My outrageous pick though....the Pats are going to buck recent trends, 13-3 and a 2nd Consecutive Superbowl! Thats right, its gonna happen!

:)

[Ryan Pode]

Hahahaha--no. The Bills have Eric Moulds who is a very good reciever, he had 64 for 780 in 13 games last year. Josh Reed is ready to have a good year if Bledsoe can piece things together. Not to mention Lee Evans who apparently has been playing rather well in training camp. So my sleeper is with the Bills, but I do expect the Ravens to go deep.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am not making a SB pick because I probably go nuts and pick my Chiefs (I hope they win but won't dare pick them) I think the Falcons will have the biggest turn around and could threaten the Eagles for the NFC.

[Jedieb]

Arizona and Detroit are my NFC sleepers. I really think the Lions had a good draft and Mooch in his 2nd year could easily get that team on the right track. In the AFC I like the Bungles and the Browns to surprise us.

Who's going to fall on their face? I remember thinking the Giants had more than enough offense to make a playoff run and look what happened to them. The wheels came off both the Bucs and Raiders. Not that everyone thought they'd repeat, but who figured they'd BOTH tank? This year I think teams like Carolina could have mediocre seasons and fail to make the playoffs. The Ravens too just because Lewis was foolish enough to tempt fate by being on the cover of Madden.

[JMK]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Arizona and Detroit are my NFC sleepers.

Would you continue to believe that if I told you that Anquan Boldin was carted off the field today at practice?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1856391

[Ryan Pode]

One: The curse is flawed. Ray Lewis has already had horrible injuries and he has bounced back from them.

Two: He's in the best shape of his career.

Three: If he were to get hurt, Edgarton Hartwell has shown he can pick up the slack, ranking 4th in the NFL with tackles in 2002 when Ray got hurt.

Four: The Ravens are deep at Linebacker with: Ray Lewis, Ed Hartwell, Bart Scott, Peter Boulware, Terrell Suggs, Cornell Brown, and Adalius Thomas. It would take numerous injuries all around to be able to hurt the Ravens.


As for Anquan being hurt, yes, I believe Arizona is screwed as long as he is unable to play.

[Jedieb]

I saw that about Boldin earlier today. But since he's not a Dolphin he'll probably bounce back and make the next practice. :evil

[jjwr]

And make the Pro Bowl again this year :)

[JMK]

You guys are killing me!

But watch out! We've just signed Antonio Freeman, so now all is well in Dolphin Nation and you're all going to pay!!!!!!!!!!!


Ok...maybe not, but I guarantee you that 3rd and 5 won't be a handoff 10 times out of 10 this season! :rolleyes

[Jedi Master Carr]

Freeman isn't a bad reciever heck he could be more dependable than Boston.

[JMK]

Dependable? Maybe......but I don't think he's going to contribute too much of anything to the offense this year.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I think Boston is overrated he also has a slight attitude problem. Freeman will help you guys of course your problem I think is more involving the running game, so unfortuntely Freeman doesn't help you there.

[JMK]

Well this glaring lack of a running game is going to force Wannstedt & Co. to come up with new and creative ways to gain yardage...and that's going to be his downfall unless he gambles and goes with Feeley because we all KNOW that Fiedler can only be effective when playing conservative, "smart" football. We also know that for some reason, Wannstedt likes Jay Fiedler....unfortunately for both of them, he is not very accurate past 10 yards and will get picked off a bunch.

[Jedi Master Carr]

He is probably better off going with Feeley then. If they go with Feilder they will probably get blown out most games.

[Jedieb]

Finally some good news for the Fins! I think Freeman is a great pickup. He's a solid #2 or #3 that could help replace Boston. Boston was good, but his bulked up body was a problem for him in SD. I don't think they lose that much with Freeman.

[Jedieb]

Eli Manning and his father look like geniuses right now. They were just going over some of the contract specifics the Chargers were offering. It was so ludicrous the guys on NFL Live were laughing hysterically. Basically, $5M-$22M in bonuses are contingent on Rivers winning 1-6 Superbowls. But wait, there's more, he has to make the Pro Bowl 1-6 times as well. Now, I have no problem with performance based incentives. But theses are just so ridiculous that you can't even take them seriously. Man, the Chargers front office is a joke.

[Jedi Master Carr]

They are morons, they have replaced the Bengals as the laughing stock of the league. Also I have a feeling the ownership wants the team to go in the toilet, my feeling is they want the vacant LA market. By doing what they have been doing the last two years they are losing fans and they figure they can take LA and keep some of SD, this is just me speculating but it would make sense.

[jjwr]

Yeah the Chargers are pretty much toast, considering he was their pick all along they should makea reasonable offer and sign him.

On the flip side they are signing Tomlinson to the highest RB contract ever.

And speaking of the Ravens(who are on TV right now) the Jamal Lewis trial looks like its going to happen in early November, which will cost him a few games. I wonder if things will be settled before then, it never sounded like they had much to go on in the first place.

[Ryan Pode]

The trial is Bull.

As for the game. Hot-diggity darn! Whoo.


Jamal and Chester Taylor (his backup) are looking sharp running.

Kevin Johnson made one heckofa catch. A backwards dive leap catch. It was nice.

Michael Vick went one series, two run plays and one sack for 15 or so yards. When asked by Suzy Kolbert on whether or not one series is enough to be evaluated on, he was unsure.

Matt Schaub, Falcons Rookie QB looks rather good, he has a good feel in the pocket and can pass well (for a Rookie), depsite two INTs and going 9-20.




And now for the second half.

[jjwr]

It wasn't a bad game, both teams 1st string defense was all over the place and into the backfield, very impressive.

That #44 for the Ravens seemed to have a knack for getting open.

I was hoping to see more out of Vick but I can understand why they didn't do much with him considering what happened last year.

[Ryan Pode]

Yes. What impressed me most was that Kyle Boller didn't do anything overly stupid when the pocket would collapse, he'd find a man and throw it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I find preseason games boring, there only importance is to see who is going to make the team.

[jjwr]

They typicall are, especially if its not your team.

I'm really hoping someone will show the Pats game tonight, though I'm not counting on it.

The 1st team won't get much time in I'm sure but there are some incredibly players on the 2nd/3rd team I really wanna see, Rohan Davey at QB who lit up the NFL Europe league, I want to see what he'll do. He could very easily go out and destroy the Eagles 2nd stringers, ditto with some of the Pats 4-6th receivers....but like I said I doubt it will be on.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well my Chiefs play tonight though I don't expect the game to be on around here. I could probably find the game on the intenet on radio somewhere. Still it would still bore me after the first half when only the bench warmers and players that have no hope are in there. The first game and last games are the worst because the coach hardly plays the starters.

[Ryan Pode]

You are not a true football fan then. I love it when I see third string in there hustling just as hard as the first string guys are. Thats why the Ravens won. Because first to third, the defense played a great game.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well its because those guys have no chance of making rosters, why should I care about them? And what does that not make me a true football fan?

[Jedieb]

Hey look, guys who are going back to working at UPS in a couple of weeks are finally in the game! Alright, this is getting good! :rolleyes

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL I think that is my attitude. Good example the Chiefs first unit played great and they had the lead at half time, the scrubs come in and the Giants win. Shows right there why preseason games are meaningless and only important for the players trying to make roster spots.

[Ryan Pode]

Oh. Well unlike your team, my team only has like 10 roster spots available.

[jjwr]

Pre-season is a acquired taste, not watching it doesn't make you less of a football fan.

I watched the majority of the Pats game last night, mainly cause I wanted to see how Rohan Davey would do and I wanted to see the 1st Stringers up against the Eagles.

Fun part was the Pats 1st team defense & offense pretty much had no real issues, and Dillon looked great!

As far as putting any stock into pre-season games, eh....it doesn't mean squat.

The shot in the last comment wasn't really needed either, Baltimore looks solid, no doubts but I coul djust as easily say the Pats have like 5 roster spots available. So what?

Pre-season can be fun, you can see scrappy players fighting for rosters spots or you can see some really really bad teams out on the floor, like the Falcons for example. Yes it was a mix of a bad team and good defense but it wasn't pretty and thats typical of pre-season.

[Jedieb]

By this point in the season I'm usually pretty jacked up. I watch the Hall of Fame game and try to catch as many preseason games as I can. This year I'm barely paying attention to the preseason. I'm having a lot more fun following the different pennant races and the WC scrambling in the MLB. I'm sure that when that first Sunday comes and I do my usual NFL Sunday Ticket marathon I'll be back to my old ways, but right now, I'm just not that into the NFL.

[Ryan Pode]

Deion Sanders may be coming back to play for the Ravens.

[jjwr]

What a Joke, the guy couldn't play when he was with the Redskins, why does he think he can play now?

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is a joke first he gets fired by CBS now he wants to come back? He needs to just move on.

[Ryan Pode]

Who knows? He'd be a nickelback, so it's not like he'd take too many snaps. I kinda hope he does come and play because he is probably still better than Corey Fuller and Ray Walls.

[JMK]

Well he turned down CBS' one million dollar offer so they let him go, so he's got to try and get a big pay day somewhere else.

[jjwr]

Its sad, not having played for what two years now? And then half of camp already gone by its just silly.

[JMK]

He hasn't played since 2000 I think. :huh

[Jedi Master Carr]

yeah its been a while I mean I bet he is really slow. He is just going to embarrass himself, he needs to stay retired.

[JMK]

More than anything he needs to stay quiet!

[jjwr]

I doubt that'll ever happen. It'll be nice to see him get burned out there a few times though :)

[Ryan Pode]

No, no it won't. But thats okay, because it won't happen. He will come and be sucsessful in his position.

[JMK]

Oh I'm not worried, as soon as he makes a play, we're all going to hear about it. :rolleyes

[Jedi Master Carr]

Hopefully he smartens up and figures out he is just too old. How old is he 40? Come on Football is a young man's game and besides QB few players can play past 35.

[jjwr]

If he does sign with the team and becomes successfull it won't be his own skill, it will be that the rest of the defense is that good.

The fact that he's going back in as a Nickel back tells you he can't play one on one anymore, and that was the only thing he was good at. He'll be forced to drop into zone and might have to actually tackle someone, which he was never good at.

Speaking of the Ravens, a second charge was added to Lewis. The whole thing still seems BS but it could be enough to cause him to missing 3-4 games this year.

[Ryan Pode]

Deion Sanders is 37. Look at Doug Flutie.

His lawyers still seemed confident that the trial would end within 2 weeks. But he'll miss the Brown's game for sure which makes me :( .

[jjwr]

Look at Vinny Testavarde :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Flutie isn't that good besides he is a QB like I said that is a different thing. Only kickers and QBs can play past 35 with any consistenancy. Sure Jerry Rice and Marcus Allen come to mind as notable exceptions but 37 is old for CB. Rod Woodson who is about the same age was forced to retire and he has been playing the last four years. Deion hasn't he will be extremly rusty. He be a fool to come back.

[Ryan Pode]

But he'll be our/my fool.

[Jedi Master Carr]

True, as a Chiefs fan I am glad KC didn't sign him, he would make our defense worse :p

[Jedieb]

Deion at safety. Yeah, there's something running backs and receivers on crossing patterns will fear. :rolleyes There's no doubt he can still cover, but at some point you want your safety, strong or weak side, to lay some wood. Especially on a Ravens defense. Does anyone here imagine Deion is going to try to punish guys in the middle? And as fast as he may still be, he sure as hell still doesn't have that 4.2 speed. I bet his "training" makes him reconsider his comeback. Ughh, another reason to root against the Ravens. At least for some of us. ;)

[Ryan Pode]

If a team sends someone across the middle their least worry will be Deion.

[Jedieb]

With those stud linebackers of yours you've got a great point. But still, Deion isn't going to be just push guys out of bounds now. Every once in awhile he's going to have to hit someone. Man, would I love to see a TE or a RB knock him on his rear.

[Ryan Pode]

I think he'd be fine if he came back. And I must say, I was watching the Ravens game, and I like Shannon Sharpe, he was very funny with his comments on T.O.

[jjwr]

Dolphins pulled off a nice trade to get a quality receiver, should definetly help this year and next year their receivers will be stacked.

[JMK]

I was very much waiting for that to happen. I think Ogunleye is overrated anyway.

[jjwr]

Yeah.....though apparently Booker isn't too happy about the trade so that should be interesting to see how it plays out.

Pats looked pretty bad in their pre-season game, but after 16 straight wins they had to lay a egg sometimes, might as well happen in the pre-season :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Preseason games are meaningless though KC didn't look great against the Giants, and I wasn't too worried. They play on Monday night I might watch the first half, as Vermeil has said he will play the starters that long. But I don't think I will watch more than that.

[jjwr]

Oh I know, but its nice to at least see the effort out of the players. Thing is the teams really don't even game plan for the team they are playing as they don't want to give anything away that they may do in the year.

Pats play the Panthers next Monday night I think, that should be a fun one, I can see the Panthers throwing a bit extra out there to try and get one back against the Pats.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Chiefs looked the best defensively I have seen them better than last year. They really shut down that high flying Rams offense. Actually KC looks ready especially offensively, they still have issues, too many pentalties on the special teams and stuff like that. I am satisfied not sure if I am going to watch the second half.

[Ryan Pode]

Remember, Special Teams is all rookies, etc.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Not always, maybe some of the guys they had in there were rookies, I don't know. The Chiefs have good special teams usually, that has been one of their stregthens under Vermiel. I figure it just preseason stuff as the just about every punt there was a flag.

[Ryan Pode]

Eh, thats where I figure rookies get their chances. And if I was Vermiel I wouldn't exactly send in Dante Hall much at this point.

[jjwr]

I saw a clip on Sportscenter where Hall was taking a return back and got creamed.

Stephen Jackson looked pretty solid for the Rams, I still wish the Pats had picked him over trading for Corey Dillon.

[Figrin D'an]

Could Monday Night Football be going the way of the dodo soon?

http://www.latimes.com/la-fi-abc23aug23.story


Now, of course, this article is just supposition, but it's impossible to deny that MNF has become an increasingly large drain on ABC financially. Fox and CBS also lose money on their NFL broadcasts, but it's not nearly as pronounced. ESPN doesn't have this problem because it's a cable network and is just crazy profitable. Chances are, MNF would be picked up by one of the other networks, since it's so regonizable and has been part of the NFL broadcasting tradition for more than 30 years. But, the fact that ABC would consider ditching it's most popular sports program is a bit surprising.

(Note: I'm going to rename the thread as an NFL general discussion thread, since that's essentially what it has become.)

[Ryan Pode]

Aye. I heard that, losing somewhere around 150 million. I can see the problem, mainly because as avid a football fan I am, I only watch it if the Ravens or playing or a friend tells me to turn it on cos so and so is making a huge comeback (i.e. Colts v. Bucs).

[jjwr]

The biggest problem is a lot of the games suck, they need to do the rotating schedule for the later games in the year so they can stock it with games that have playoff implications.

[Jedieb]

That was a great article Fig. In the end, ABC simply can't lose MNF. The male 18-35 demographic is too strong and there's too much history. What the network needs to do is fix its craptaular prime time line up. But this has been the pattern of network TV over the last few years. As the television landscape has become more fractured, ratings for individual programs has dwindled. MNF now ranks HIGHER than it ever did during its Cosell days. But the ratings are lower because instead of 3 channels, ABC now goes up against hundreds. The bottom line though is MNF is a top 5 show. You can't ditch that. You can complain and use it as a bargaining chip when you renegotiate your next contract, but you can't give up on it.

[Ryan Pode]

A few of the games are good. A few of the scheduled ones sound good (Ravens v. Chiefs, Minnesota v. Philly).

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Chiefs play in two high profile games this year. The one against Baltimore and the one against the Patriots. They are on TV three times and at least they are entertaining. The opening game is going to be big though Indy vs NE that is a great match up.

[jjwr]

There are always some sure fire great games but its inevitable that either through injuries or just a down year that some of the games will end up being with teams who are going nowhere so people won't care and they won't watch.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well being a Chiefs fans I hope that doesn't happen to them heh. Honestly worst case scenerio for them baring injury their defense still sucks all that would do is make the games more exciting.

[jjwr]

The chiefs games should be fun to watch just like last year. The Pats game should be a lot of fun, hopefully both teams will be on a roll by then and we'll get a kick butt Monday Night'er.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That should be a great game, I think it will be close too. Its been a while for KC for Monday nighters at home.

[jjwr]

I'm still amazed the Pats don't have any home Monday Night games, they've got a whacked schedule this year.

Ricky is talking about coming back....apparently he can't quite cover the 8 million the Dolphins want back. Then again they said if he does come back between the drug suspension and filing his retirement he may have to sit out this year anyways.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL thats typical for Ricky.

[JMK]

That's false, the report says that he's talking to the Dolphins about coming back, but that report is based only on the fact that he placed a call to the Dolphins. Just because he called doesn't mean he's coming back, he may be calling to ask about the 8.6 million the team wants back from him.

[jjwr]

Ah, I only heard the blurb about it.

I wonder if they would even take him back at this point, the fan base isn't going to be happy with him. If he agreed to come back but play for a different team with the Dolphins re-couping some of their draft picks back I could see them pulling the deal off.

[Jedieb]

This reminds me of when Barry Sanders retired and the Lions came calling for around $5M. I think it's ridiculous for a player to retire in the middle of a contract and NOT give some of his signing bonus back. You got that bonus on the promise that you'd play until the end of the contract. Yes, teams cut players all the time, but players still keep their signing bonuses. Many times, they still receive a portion of the remaining contract. Ricky owes the Dolphins money, he should pay up.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Of course's Barry situation was different, I think he was tired of playing for a bad team that wasn't even trying to get better. Maybe he should have gave them some notice, but I suspect he was trying to stick to Millen and company. Williams is just an odd character who does things on whims, it looks like.

[jjwr]

I didn't think Millen was around when Barry quit.....

The whole Barry retirement still hurts, I wasn't a Lions fan per se but I loved watching him play and after he retired I kept hoping the Lions would trade his rights to another team so he could be back in the NFL. I do recall them saying they would never do that though, that if he wanted to play it would have to be for them.

Man he was something, we've got a huge Dallas fan here at work who was hyping up the whole Emmitt thing from 2yrs ago when he broken the record. Barry odds are would have had 20,000 yards by the time Emmitt reached Payton's number, it would have been a long time before anyone touched that #. As it stands now I hope someone comes along and knocks off Emmitt.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Maybe I was wrong about Millen, I think I was in fact, the GM before him was a complete idiot. The Lions back then won 3-5 games and they were always terrible and incompete, never went after the best players. Barry just got sick of it and decide to mess up the franchise. I don't completely agree with how he did, but I understand why. The Lions has had one of the most inept franchises in football the last two decades, except for two seasons they have are almost always below .500.

[Ryan Pode]

He's coming back on Wed.

[jjwr]

And we care why? I mean really....there are better corners that are well aged who are still playing, why the fuss over Deion?

Like many have said, he was a speed CB and he no longer has the speed he used to.

Looks like Warner is in at first in NY, pretty much what was figured. He'll start the season, odds are Eli will finish it and unless Warner is on fire.

Rivers for SD looked solid with his first few passes, then the bottom fell out. I think the guy will be a gamer but he will need some time.

Pats starters led the Panthers starters 17-10 before their third string QB gave the game away in the 4th. Very solid effort, the Pats are ready!

[Jedi Master Carr]

My chiefs have problems at WR, we have two hurt, Boeritger got hurt in the last game tore some ligmaents in his knee and he is out for the year. Nobody knows when Johnny Morton might be coming back. Barring a trade they will be suiting up Keninson and Dante Hall at WR. Now I like Hall, he is very fast although he is small (5-8) and I think this will effect his return game which I don't like. Of course there is no other choices the other recievers have no pro experiences, we have two rookies and one guy from the NFL Europe. Their WR were a weakness last season it looks like it will be again unless Hall has a huge year or something.

[jjwr]

Peter King mentioned the Bucs may start shopping McCardell to the chiefs

[Cyrel Annat]

If they need to use Hall as a premier receiver, he's gonna get hurt. Not that this is something that I want, obviously, as he's easily one of the most - if not THE most - exciting players in the game. But he is quite small in frame and after last year, he may already have a target painted on him.

As far as Deion goes...he'll do what he's there for, to scare people into keeping the ball away from him. That's about all he did before. Can't tackle, average coverage. He just simply had speed to make up for it. Not so sure how much of that he'll have left or how long he'll last through the season before that turf toe pops up again.

[Ryan Pode]

Even though Dante Hall screwed the Ravens over last year, I hope he doesn't get hurt. His TD returns are amazing and the office linebacker commercial with him during the Pro-Bowl was funny.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I heard the McCardell rumors. Hey he is a good reciever I think he would fit in KC, he is better than having Hall at WR he is just too tiny to start, it would cost them on Special teams, IMO as well.

[Sarr Koon]

GO GREEN BAY PACKERS!!!

[jjwr]

The Season is on!

Pats pulled off a huge win tonight. They really should not have won this game, too many mistakes down the stretch but enough big plays by the D to keep the Colts out of the end-zone.

What gets me is late in the game, colts with only 1 TO and the Pats keep trying to throw the ball instead of pounding with Corey Dillon, almost let the Colts right back into the game.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I thought the same thing 2nd and 5, run the ball. That is the obvious thing to do I would have run it two times there, first it runs the clock second you have Dillon who is a big back.

[JMK]

The Colts turned the ball over in Pats territory too many times to deserve the win. You can't beat Belichick when doing stuff like that.