Bill Cosby speaks out.

[Pierce Tondry]

Read this link first:

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/07/01/cosby.comments.ap/index.html

Now I have to ask the question: does it seem to the rest of you that an anti-achievement mentality exists in the US? Is it centralized in the black community?

Granted, there are members of every community who will fit the description, but in general I have observed many more black people in lower income positions. I have seen fewer blacks in college classes. Perhaps most tellingly, I have seen the uncaring and uninterested black youths the article describes walking down the sidewalks by my brother's high school during school hours. For myself, I agree with Bill Cosby's remarks and encourage those who agree with me to spread the word that no race is exempt from falling into lax and slovenly behavior.

[ReaperFett]

I think he raises some good points, but is getting a bit over emotional, which damages his point.

[JMK]

Well he's got to walk a fine line between emotion and control. If he's too far one way, he's a fanatic or he's just babbling.

I for one think he raises a lot of good points.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
I think he raises some good points, but is getting a bit over emotional, which damages his point.

I think his existing credibility, which crosses racial boundries pretty well, nullifies a lot of potential claims that he's being fanatical.

I have to agree with Pierce and JMK... he raises a lot of good points.



Originally posted by Pierce Tondry
does it seem to the rest of you that an anti-achievement mentality exists in the US?

Yes, definately. Though, no racial community is exempt from it's influence. A big part of the problem is the public school system. The trend is to teach lowest common denominator. Classes are dumbed down because so many children are classified as being hyperactive or having ADD. The general student body gets less of what they should out of a public education. Not to mention that programs for gifted and talented students have been cut entirely in many school districts, along with things like music, art, theatre, shop classes, etc, because they aren't seen as being important.

[JMK]

Let's all just blame Fitty Cent.

[darth_mcbain]

Tell it like it is, Bill... I agree with him - he raises lots of good points. I agree that there is a fine line to be walked, but I'm glad that someone has the guts to stand up and say something like that - and I think (and hope) that Bill is certainly well-enough respected that his comments will not be taken out of context and used to incite anything.

[Jedieb]

[quote]Yes, definately. Though, no racial community is exempt from it's influence. A big part of the problem is the public school system. The trend is to teach lowest common denominator. Classes are dumbed down because so many children are classified as being hyperactive or having ADD. The general student body gets less of what they should out of a public education. Not to mention that programs for gifted and talented students have been cut entirely in many school districts, along with things like music, art, theatre, shop classes, etc, because they aren't seen as being important. [quote]

Having worked in public education for over a decade I don't agree with parts of your assessment of our system. Socio-economic status and poor parenting are the two biggest hurdles I've had to deal with over my career. Whether black or white, if Grandma shows up to the parent teacher conference dressed like she's just come back from a rock concert, odds are I've got my work cut out for me. And I say Grandma, because anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of my kids are being raised by them instead of the mother or father. More than 3/4 of my kids are receiving Free Lunch and the numbers that make them qualify for that are just plain sad. If you come home from school and Mom's passed out on the couch, there's not much the public school system do except fight the good fight. As for medicating kids, there hasn't been a single year I've taught where I haven't had to deal with a medicated student. Let me tell, I could usually tell within 5 minutes if a kid hadn't taken his meds. For some children, they literally can't function in a classroom setting if they haven't taken their 10mgs.

I applaud Bill Cosby's statements. His statements are greatly influenced by where he's coming from. To begin with, he's an OLD man. Nothing will irk your view of teenagers and preteens quicker than a few decades under your belt. It happens to all of us. If it hasn't happened to you, believe me, it WILL. Second, and most obvious, he's an old BLACK man. A man who came of age during the Civil Rights Era. He marched, he saw the dogs and water hoses, the beatings, etc. He fought for many of the rights that he sees many black teenagers take for granted. He has the credibility and stature that a white critic simply doesn't. It's simple, if you call your brother an idiot, it's no big deal. But if someone else does it, you've got a license to kick his .... I don't blame him for being angry. He wants these kids to make the most of the opportunities they have today. He knows the price that was paid for them. He wants them to look in the mirror first before they blame anyone for their problems. Also, Bill Cosby would be the first person to advocate that ALL children, black and white, take advantage of these opportunities.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Having worked in public education for over a decade I don't agree with parts of your assessment of our system. Socio-economic status and poor parenting are the two biggest hurdles I've had to deal with over my career. Whether black or white, if Grandma shows up to the parent teacher conference dressed like she's just come back from a rock concert, odds are I've got my work cut out for me. And I say Grandma, because anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of my kids are being raised by them instead of the mother or father. More than 3/4 of my kids are receiving Free Lunch and the numbers that make them qualify for that are just plain sad. If you come home from school and Mom's passed out on the couch, there's not much the public school system do except fight the good fight. As for medicating kids, there hasn't been a single year I've taught where I haven't had to deal with a medicated student. Let me tell, I could usually tell within 5 minutes if a kid hadn't taken his meds. For some children, they literally can't function in a classroom setting if they haven't taken their 10mgs.


Just so we're clear, my beef isn't with teachers. They have to put with a lot of crap, and I certainly respect those teachers that "fight the good fight" by going into work everyday and making the best of, what is in many cases, just plain bad situations. I have issues with things like curriculum, and honestly, the limitations being put on teachers because of the general attitude regarding simplification of said curriculum.

And, to be clear, I'm not saying that public education is soley to blame. Like you said, poor parenting is, frankly, a bigger problem, and socio-economic status is a definate contributor to the overall problem.