Force Ability

[Rognan Dar]

Alright, I was playing my Jedi Academy game again and during that time got to thinking: Could these force moves be used here? The ones that I was thinking of are: Absorb, Drain, and Dark Rage. I know that some of these would be turned down right away, such as drain, but I was wondering about the other too.

Would it be aloud to use the force to absorb the energy of other peoples force moves? And is it possible to use the force to give you better speed and strength with Dark Rage and have it slowly drain as you use it?

[James Prent]

Wouldn't Dark Rage = dark side?

[AmazonBabe]

No, Dark Rage is basically when you go into a frenzy of super dark side powers (i.e. force speed is double, etc). Only down side to it is that it drains you dramatically, and leaves you vulnerable to attacks once the Dark Rage has worn off.

Rognan - I've used some of those things before in RPing. So long as you keep it believable without GMing, then it's kosher.

[Figrin D'an]

What Rie said. Just keep it within reason, and you won't have any problems.

[James Prent]

Originally posted by AmazonBabe
No, Dark Rage is basically when you go into a frenzy of super dark side powers

Doesn't that mean it's dark side?

[Rognan Dar]

Yeah, thats what I'd figure, but I was thinking like if I wanted to have Rog be (for example) a master at absorbing could I go about it that just about nothing, force related, could hurt/effect him? That in itself is a little over the top I know. But could it be said that I could make myself really resiliant(sp?) against force moves?

[imported_Akrabbim]

I had... or I guess still have... an absorber. It has its uses. The main problem is that, once people get smart, they just start throwing things at you, or just plain fighting you.

[spada]

Wait if he took his power from the dark side, wouldn't that not be good for a Light Side Jedi?

I know I have no power, but jus wonderin'

[Kieran Devaneaux]

Originally posted by spada
Wait if he took his power from the dark side, wouldn't that not be good for a Light Side Jedi?

Like Force Lightning or Force Choke, for instance?

[Rognan Dar]

Yes, you could look at it in that way. But from what I have been looking at, from the game, is that when they try to use a force move on it just doesn't do anything. Except at times when they try and push/pull me and I kind of grunt as I absorb the move.

But what I'm trying to find out is a kind of guidling and maybe a small example from people that have used this before, to kind of help me out on how it would work when trying to write it out.

[Alex]

Why not come up with an alternative name for "dark rage"? Basically, its the Jedi version of an adrenaline rush. Once you're done, you collapse, but in the mean while, you become more powerful. Maybe you could enter a trance, during which your sensitivity to the Force is increased, but the strain it places on your body (with so many pro-active midichlorians jumping around), you collapse in exhaustion after. Maybe you get a chemical rush (released by the midichlorians), that makes your body go into overdrive, or something, and the midi's themselves become doubly effective. It wouldn't last long...the longer you make it last, the more detremental it is. If you went too far, you could end up in a coma, or something.

Also, there is no doubting that Kyle Katarn is a good guy. He's one of the Jedi Knights in JK:JA. But, in JK2, he's using Force Grip on people - one of the cinematics includes it. Your character in JK:JA gets commended if you keep your light and dark powers balanced at every stage. *shrug* Don't see there being a problem if you dabble a little bit, as long as it is a rare occurance.

[spada]

I agree with you alex, but just for reference Kyle Katarn wasn't exactly a "jedi" persay in JKII, he was more of a neutral using both light/dark powers.

As far as creating the "Light" Dark Rage, I am in agreement. I saw on a website that Plo Koon has a technique which he uses lightning, but does not draw upon the dark side to do it. I think this could work, I was just wondering if Rognan would take his power from the Dark/Light side.

[Rognan Dar]

I was asking about the Dark Rage more out of curiosity then thinking about using it. Just seeing what was aloud and what wasn't. But just because we think of moves as being dark side ones doesn't mean thats what they are. I think of it more on how it is used that makes it light or dark. You should already do what Alex suggested, with just the normal force boosting. But if you did use it like that, boosting up your power, I dont think having a 'greater' sensitivity would be the thing you would get, unless you use it to boost just that.

As far as Kyle, he wasnt and is still not quite, a Jedi. He does things how he wants to but leans more on the light side.

[Alex]

Yeah...I guess Kyle is a bit of a vigilante...he's using the "ends justify the means" philosophy, rather than going about things in the purest way. However, lots of Jedi do that. Heck, if Jedi were totally good, and unquestionably pure, they'd never fight at all. They always fight in an angry way...you watch them. Even Yoda looked angry. To fight, they have to let a little bit of dark side in. As long as they can control it, and don't let it consume them, its ok. But its still the dark side.

[Kale]

Semantical calisthenics aside, there are fundamental differences between the Light and the Dark Sides of the Force as I have understood them to be used in the Star Wars movies and on SWFans as a whole. It's not a balance scale you can manage by making sure the good outweighs the bad. The Dark Side is inherently corruptive and destructive, and anyone who dabbles in it faces serious consequences. Anyone who persists in it will be corrupted regardless of the purity of his or her intentions.

I don't see where you're getting the idea that Jedi must "let a little bit of dark side in" to fight. I think that's looking at it the wrong way. Through the power of the Light Side, the Jedi are able to defend just causes without becoming mired in selfish agendas and hatred. It's power under control--I thought that's what the whole scene between Yoda and Dooku was about.

Sorry, I know this isn't the intended topic of this thread--but as soon as you start talking about mixing Dark and Light as a Jedi, you're undermining the whole point of the separation of the two as I understand it, and I guarantee you'll be running afoul of the GJO admins.

[Alex]

Since when did I start promoting Shadow Jedi as a good idea? I didn't. All I was saying is that in Episode 1, Obi Wan looked a little angry. In Episode 2, Obi Wan looked a little bit angry, and more than a bit afraid (with the giant metal thing). As Yoda says "Fear, Anger, Hate: These are the paths to the Dark Side". I'm not saying that Jedi have to float between good and bad. I'm just saying that occasionally, they put their foot on the path to the Dark Side, in order to get the job done. True, this sort of thing is seen more in the lower ranks than the higher (perhaps Jedi Masters have learned to control their emotions better), but it does still happen.

The Yoda/Dooku scene...that was primarily to show how powerful Yoda was, and how, despite that power, the Dark Side was stronger. Notice the bit with the cane? When he's not using the Force...when he isn't letting the Force strengthen him, the dark side is crushing down on him, hence the walking stick.

At no point was I saying I intended to use a Shadow Jedi, or any permutation thereof in my Roleplaying. I'm quite happy to accept the good/bad divide, if thats what the forum rules say. I'm just pointing out facts from the films...and you're jumping to conclusions.

[Kale]

Jumping to conclusions? I never even mentioned Shadow Jedi. This is what I was talking about.


Heck, if Jedi were totally good, and unquestionably pure, they'd never fight at all... ...To fight, they have to let a little bit of the dark side in. As long as they can control it, and don't let it consume them, its ok. But its still the dark side.

I was hoping you'd clarify your argument, and you did. I still have some issues with your analysis, but they're not that important and they don't pertain to this thread. Sorry if I came off as confrontational.

[Pierce Tondry]

Originally posted by Alex
The Yoda/Dooku scene...that was primarily to show how powerful Yoda was, and how, despite that power, the Dark Side was stronger. Notice the bit with the cane? When he's not using the Force...when he isn't letting the Force strengthen him, the dark side is crushing down on him, hence the walking stick.

And his bent back had nothing to do with the fact that he was ALMOST NINE-FREAKING-HUNDRED YEARS OLD right? No. Yoda is older than dirt on some planets. That is the reason he leans over when he walks with his cane. You are not using common sense.

You misinterpreted the purpose of the fight scene, too. Aside from it just being totally cool to see Yoda fight, the point of the scene was to show that a Dark Jedi cannot defeat a true Light Jedi in single combat. Yoda countered Dooku's every move, and it was only until Dooku threatened the lives of the incapacitated Anakin and Obi-Wan that Yoda was forced to break off pursuit. SW Insider issues confirm this.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Alex
The Yoda/Dooku scene...that was primarily to show how powerful Yoda was, and how, despite that power, the Dark Side was stronger. Notice the bit with the cane? When he's not using the Force...when he isn't letting the Force strengthen him, the dark side is crushing down on him, hence the walking stick.



Pierce pretty much nailed the correct answer on this one. An additional point of the scene is to show that Yoda doesn't use the Force friviously or without purpose. If he wanted to, he could use the Force to allow him to walk without his cane, or to move as fast or faster than any other humanoid. But he doesn't, because it's symbolic of the belief that a Jedi uses the Force to serve and to protect, not for personal gain.


The Light Side and Dark Side aren't analagous to Yin and Yang, in which there is some good in evil and some evil in good. It's much more clear cut than this. While individual Force powers and abilities aren't necessarily inherently good or evil, the intent and manner in which they are used is either for good or for evil. This is the fundamental principle that needs to be understood. A Jedi isn't supposed to allow anger, fear and hatred to fuel his/her actions, even if the actions are just. Tapping into the power of the Dark Side to accomplish a positive goal is a no-no. The ends do not justify the means in the eyes of a Jedi, because it means bypassing or abandoning the principles by which a Jedi is supposed to live.

Lapses in judgement do happen. This is understood. Touching the Dark Side once or twice by mistake isn't going to cause a Jedi to lose his way. However, a Jedi that uses the Dark Side with any sort of regularity to complete even the most honorable of tasks simply is no longer a Jedi.

[Alex]

Originally posted by Pierce Tondry
And his bent back had nothing to do with the fact that he was ALMOST NINE-FREAKING-HUNDRED YEARS OLD right? No. Yoda is older than dirt on some planets. That is the reason he leans over when he walks with his cane. You are not using common sense.

You misinterpreted the purpose of the fight scene, too. Aside from it just being totally cool to see Yoda fight, the point of the scene was to show that a Dark Jedi cannot defeat a true Light Jedi in single combat. Yoda countered Dooku's every move, and it was only until Dooku threatened the lives of the incapacitated Anakin and Obi-Wan that Yoda was forced to break off pursuit. SW Insider issues confirm this.


Good point. :\ Didn't think of the age thing. And I don't get SW Insider, so I wouldn't know. *shrug* It was a theory I read somewhere that tried to pass it off as fact. Didn't know there was evidence that proved them wrong.

I wasn't talking about using the Dark Side with "any sort of regularity to complete even the most honorable of tasks". I was talking about in extreme circumstances. Rare stuff. Not very often.

I was basing that stuff on what I had seen in EU and in the movies. I haven't read much EU, so I guess my perspective is biased towards what I have read. But I'm talking about the examples I've seen. That doesn't mean their right. They're just there. It happens. Occasionally. In a few EU books. One or two occasions for one or two individuals out of millions across the years. That rare enough for ya? ;)

I guess I just don't agree with Jedi philosophy...thats my problem. My character does, to a point. I don't like the idea that anyone who isn't totally pure can't be a Jedi. People with a little bit of shadow in them can still be good. Luke Skywalker used a lot of anger in his final battle, but he ended up as the "leader" of the Jedi post ROTJ. Han Solo was a smuggler. Smuggling is a crime. Yet, he is a good guy. Are you saying that, in the eyes of a proper Jedi, Han Solo isn't a good guy? Or does their philosophy only apply to those who use the Force? Surely everyone is part of the Force...it is just those with a high enough Midichlorian count that are able to feel it.


Edit:

Sorry to drag this so far off topic. Any mod people wanna move it to a new thread? I'd really like to have the forum's view on Jedi philosophy explained to me...just so I don't get it wrong. As with everything philosophical, there are all sorts of variations on a theme...wanna be singing the right song, as it were.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Alex
I wasn't talking about using the Dark Side with "any sort of regularity to complete even the most honorable of tasks". I was talking about in extreme circumstances. Rare stuff. Not very often.

...

I don't like the idea that anyone who isn't totally pure can't be a Jedi. People with a little bit of shadow in them can still be good. Luke Skywalker used a lot of anger in his final battle, but he ended up as the "leader" of the Jedi post ROTJ.


But the issue still goes back to "intent and manner." Was it accidental, or was it a choice? Does the Jedi justify his actions by saying that the goal was accomplished, or does he admit that he was wrong, even though the end result was good? That's the important aspect of this to consider.

Yes, Luke was angry when he finally defeated Vader. Vader pushed his buttons, and Luke lashed out, touching the Dark Side in the process. However, when Luke was teetering on the edge of falling to the Dark Side completely, he had his moment of epiphany. He looked at his father's severed mechanical hand, then looked at his own cybernetic limb, and realized that he was just that close to becoming exactly like his father. In that moment, he finally understood what it meant to be a Jedi, and he resisted the Emperor's offer and cast away his lightsaber. He realized the mistake he had made, and he wasn't going to allow Palpatine to exploit it. Luke knew that using the Dark Side was wrong. It took a violent and tragic experience for him to finally understand this, but in the end, he resisted the same temptation that his father could not. Luke touched the Dark Side for a brief time in that final battle. But he knew that it was a mistake, and he didn't allow it to take hold of him.

It's not about being "totally pure." It's about learning the difference between good and evil as the Jedi see it, and learning from mistakes.




Han Solo was a smuggler. Smuggling is a crime. Yet, he is a good guy. Are you saying that, in the eyes of a proper Jedi, Han Solo isn't a good guy? Or does their philosophy only apply to those who use the Force? Surely everyone is part of the Force...it is just those with a high enough Midichlorian count that are able to feel it.



Solo also isn't a Jedi. The Jedi understand that there are those different from them and who have different sets of beliefs. They don't expect everyone to follow their code of conduct. They don't even expect everyone to believe in the Force. Everyone must have the ability to choose what they wish to believe and how they wish to act.

You're also not considering how Solo redeemed himself countless times throughout the story. The Jedi are strict in their division of good and evil, but they also believe in giving second chances to those who come to understand their mistakes and want to work to correct the wrongs they have done.

[James Prent]

To answer a question: If you absorbed the power of a Dark Side attack, that does not make what you do with the absorbed power inherently dark side, nor will it harm you unless you don't know how to properly absorb power.

For example: Yoda absorbing Dooku's lightning and sending it back to him as an attack.

[Kieran Devaneaux]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
Luke knew that using the Dark Side was wrong. It took a violent and tragic experience for him to finally understand this, but in the end, he resisted the same temptation that his father could not.

Later on, he tried destroying the Dark Side from within (training under one of Emperor Palpatine's clones) and very nearly turned in the process. But he managed to save himself - albeit barely.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Kieran Devaneaux
Later on, he tried destroying the Dark Side from within (training under one of Emperor Palpatine's clones) and very nearly turned in the process. But he managed to save himself - albeit barely.

That's an EU story, not the films. Big difference, especially around here.

[Pierce Tondry]

Furthermore, it's an EU story most EU enthusiasts don't hold as being congruent with canon material. I for one liked it the first time I heard it, but my tastes have changed significantly since then and I really am not fond of it anymore.