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Shawn
Jun 2nd, 2004, 03:39:18 AM
A little background (skip if you wish to get right to the review):

I still remember the first time I saw the demo for a little game by the name of "Thief: The Dark Project". Even then, the graphics didn't "wow" me. But by the time I was halfway through the tutorial, the amount of world interaction had me hooked; The way the NPCs responded to varying degrees of light and darkness, how they could hear you approach even when their backs were turned, the ability to "mantle" onto objects by pulling yourself up. And then came the heart of the gameplay: Thieving. Sneaking into people's homes, snatching their prized trinkets right off the shelf and making good your escape. I wasn't prepared for the vast, rich world which I was about to be thrust into.

I mention this because I feel it's important to establish that I've been a fan of the franchise for a long time. Like many fans, I was sorely disappointed when I heard that Looking Glass Studios - the developers of Thief: the Dark Project and Thief 2: The Metal Age - closed their doors. Worse, Thief 2 had ended on a heck of a cliffhanger. Then the word started coming in: Ion Storm Austin, the company responsible for the critically acclaimed Deus Ex, would be picking up the license and making the third game.

It was rough times for a fan: While ISA had several of the original developers on their team, there were many changes being made to the core Thief formula that had the long-time fans concerned. The decision to simultaneously develop for the PC and X-Box led to certain design concessions; Gone were the sprawling, city-wide levels of the previous games, to be replaced with something more akin to the shoebox sized levels of Deus Ex: Invisible War. Gone was the presence of water you could actually swim in, which led to many a creative entry points in the original games. While these are just a few highlights, suffice it to say that there was enough to have fans worried. The release of the lackluster Deus Ex sequel did not alleviate these concerns in the least.

I'm happy to say that, while the concerns were not entirely unfounded, they become almost trivial once you actually start playing the game.

(Begin Review Proper)

Thief: Deadly Shadows is a mixed bag. Thankfully, that mix consists of mostly good contents.

While many things have changed, the impeccable stealth gameplay has survived the years and change of engines intact. Those who think that Splinter Cell is the epitome of stealth gameplay will be in a world of shock if they've never picked up a Thief game before.

First and foremost, shadows are your friend; Trained as a child to disappear in the darkness, Garrett puts his skills to good use in his current profession of wealth relocation. While hidden in shadows, he is nearly invisible. In addition to the previous methods of sneaksie hiding, Garrett can now press his back up against a wall. In the previews I had seen, I had considered this only a gimmick, to be used by people playing third person to peak around corners. However, in practice, this technique makes Garrett all but undetectable. Thus, it's not only useful, but borderline overpowered. Use it sparingly, as it's basically your get-out-of-jail-free card.

There are plenty of elements in this new installment to make staying hidden more difficult, however. Guards are now able to carry torches around with them, illuminating their surroundings. You might feel safe pressed up in that dark corner but, when you see that torch bearing guard approach, you just know that you had better find some way to beat a hasty retreat before he gets too close.

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Which brings me to my next point: The Shadows. Thief 3 is one of the first games on the market to use completely dynamic shadows. Every single object in the game world interacts with light sources, realistically self-shadowing and casting shadows on their environments. Even the shadows in the recent graphical blockbuster, Far Cry, pale in comparison. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'd say the shadows in Thief 3 are far and away better than anything I've seen, including the upcoming Doom 3. They really add a whole new dynamic to the game: Open up a door to a well-lit room and light will spill into the room you're currently in, while the door itself will cast a shadow you can hide in. At one point, I even managed to hide in a patrolling guard's own shadow by staying cautiously close to him. At another point in the game, I needed to sneak by a stationary guard in a brightly lit area of the streets. To accomplish this, I managed to shove several crates in front of the light source, thus creating shadows for me to hide in as I crossed. The lighting in this game is truly one of those things that you have to see to believe.

The graphics are a large step forward from what fans of the first two games are used to. Powered by the latest version of the Unreal Warfare engine (which is so heavily tweaked out that it no longer truly resembles it's original codebase), the graphics can be quite stunning at times. Unfortunately, I said "at times"; While the PC version sports much higher res textures than its X-Box counterpart, it's easy to see where concessions were made to support both systems. Some textures will look incredibly detailed, while others look rather blurry up-close. Fortunately, the abundance of darkness in the game keeps the player from ever having to bother to pay too close attention to the uglier textures in the game. The character models look and are generally animated very well. Hand-animated death animations, however, were replaced with ragdoll physics, which can lead to some hilariously goofy death poses.

In general, though, the physics are vastly improved since Ion Storm's last outing: Bumping into objects no longer sends them flying across the room. Now, a player must actively walk into an object, "pushing" it. At first, the object will began to tilt, then eventually fall over. I had quite a bit of fun just playing around with the physics in the game, knocking over barrels and watching them roll off a ledge, blackjacking a guard at the top of a flight of stairs and watching his body tumble down, picking up objects and throwing them around the room. While the objects may not behave quite as realistically as what's promised with Half-Life 2, they don't seem very far off, either.

Now on to the gameplay.

This time, Garrett sports a somewhat shorter list of equipment. Gone are many of the gimmicky potions from the previous games, such as Speed, Slowfall and Invisibility. A welcome change, as it made the game more challenging. Rope arrows didn't make the cut for technical reasons, but were replaced by Garrett's new climbing gloves, which allow him to scale any stone or brick surface in the game. These gloves turned out to be quite fun in practice, if somewhat underused by the level designers. I would have liked some more areas to explore with them. Still, they worked well. Garrett's sword, which he's wielded since the first game, is now replaced with a dagger - far more Thief-life than a shortsword, and certainly more challenging to use. As if combat wasn't discouraged enough by the game's design, having the dagger as your primary offensive weapon will make you think twice before getting yourself into a fight.

Instead, you'll find yourself relying more on his bow, which can fire a variety of arrows with elemental crystals attached to the end; Water Arrows can be used to douse fires, creating precious darkness for you to hide in, as well as clean up any incriminating blood stains; Moss Arrows will create a patch of soft moss on the ground which will deaden your footfalls and make you much more difficult to hear; Fire Arrow unleash an explosive ball of flame which, while incredibly damaging, is also incredibly loud. These are best saved for extreme emergencies; Lastly are the gas arrows which create a cloud of gas that will render anyone within it unconscious when they hit.

<center>http://dark_god7.home.mindspring.com/TDS-03_thumb.jpg (http://dark_god7.home.mindspring.com/TDS-03.jpg)http://dark_god7.home.mindspring.com/TDS-04_thumb.jpg (http://dark_god7.home.mindspring.com/TDS-04.jpg)</center>

Movement is another thing that has been changed from the previous titles; Indeed, from most first person shooters. You are no longer simply a disembodied camera, floating along through the levels and occasionally seeing your hands. In T:DS, the first person camera is affixed to the character model's head. This means that you cannot just start and stop running at the drop of a hat - You'll find that you need a brief moment to break into a run or to come to a halt, just like in real life. When you turn your view, you'll find that it only turns the character's head at first, allowing you to look to the side without rotating your body. It's even possible to look down at your hands and see the weapon you're carrying. When you walk, there is a distinct view-bob as your head bounces ever so slightly up and down. It certainly takes some getting used to, but I find that it adds a degree of realism to the game.

The AI in the game is dynamic, adjusting itself to your chosen difficulty level for a mission. At its highest setting, it can be quite impressive at times. Now, guards are not merely alerted by hearing or seeing the player, but by the player's actions, as well. Stealing valuable items that were moments before in plain sight is a good way to get the nearby guard to start looking for you. Leaving a door open in a key part of the house will certainly raise suspicion, as well as knocking over items that are normally set in an orderly manner. And while a guard may become only a little suspicious if they happen across an extinguished torch, they will become flat-out alerted if that torch happens to go out right as they're standing by it! Likewise, don't expect to be able to put out the torch or candle that a guard is carrying without him deciding to come look for you.

Similarly, I was constantly surprised by the amount of non-scripted conversations and NPC interactions in the game. At once point, while sneaking through a wealthy widow's manor, one of her servants spotted me and ran off to fetch a guard. I, of course, had no intention of sitting put for the guard to arrive, so I ducked into some nearby shadows and listened to the following conversation:

"Help! Help! There's a guy over here!"

"Alright, alright. Show me where he is."

The servant drags the guard back to the spot where he saw me, only to find me gone.

"I could have sworn I saw somebody here..."

"Look, don't waste my time like this. I'm going back to my patrol."

The NPCs also each have a "memory", recalling spots where they heard or saw you before. Testing this out, I moved around a bit so that he'd see me again.

"There it is again.... I wonder what. Oh no, he's back! Guard! Guard! He's here in the Kitchen!"

Yes, that's right: He called out my exact location. When he confronted the guard, he was less than happy about being dragged back over to the kitchen after the last false alarm, and the servant chewed him out about not doing his job properly. Also, I've seen situations where a guard stumbles across a body I left out in the open and then proceeded to blame it on the first passerby he noticed. Things like that add a whole new level of immersion to the game.

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The story itself has always been as important to the Thief games as the stealth gameplay: It simply wouldn't be a Thief game if either one faltered. Thankfully, the story of Thief: Deadly Shadows is easily up to par with the previous two installments - even surpassing that of Thief 2, as far as I'm concerned. I'll of course refrain from spoiling anything, but the basics go like this: As the ending of Thief 2 implied, the Keepers had already known the outcomes of Garrett's previous two trials, and they were not greatly concerned as they knew he would succeed. However, they are now approaching what they call an "Age of Darkness", the time of unwritten words. The prophecies, which have been so clear up to this point as to what's to come, simply fall silent about the near future, warning only of great danger. And so the Keepers employ Garrett, the most promising acolyte who left them so long ago, to try and find out more about the coming reckoning. It has lots of twists and surprises, and kept me engaged all the way until the end.

The game has a distinct atmosphere and personality all of its own, in the same way that the previous two games did. Yet, much as the atmosphere in Thief 2: The Metal Age was vastly different from the atmosphere in Thief: the Dark Project, so, too, is the feel of the third game completely different. Where the first game contained heavy steampunk mechanics mixed with elements of magic, and the second game contained an abundance of Victorian architecture and relatively advanced technology, the third game has an almost medieval feel to it, that toes the line between "trite" and "unique". I have a feeling that the people who dislike this new theme will be about equal to the number that enjoyed it. I, for one, fall into the latter category.

The City portions of the game were touted as being a free-form environment in which the player could roam about freely, breaking into houses and shops as they please and robbing the owners blind. While this is present, it's a bit underwhelming. The City is moderately sized, with only a set number of places which the player can actually enter. It certainly was fun, and added a new dynamic to the game, but it ultimately failed to impress. It was neither good nor bad: Simply there.

Instead of having a menu screen in which the player buys their equipment with the loot they stole in the previous mission, the player is now required to find a "fence" in which they can sell their loot to, and then to find a shop where they can buy the items they need. Unfortunately, I found myself hardly ever visiting the shops, as all the items I could ever hope for were easy enough to find laying around the city and during missions. Perhaps it was due to the way I play the game, using only as few items as possible, but I never once had to purchase anything from a shop outside of the climbing gloves. I finished the game with enough leftover gold for Garrett to retire in style.

And now that I've talked about the gameplay at length and I'm winding down here, it's time to talk about the game's performance. I haven't upgraded my computer in about a year and a half, give or take, but I still consider it a fairly beefy box: Pentium 4 2.4b ghz, 1gb Corsair XMS2700 RAM, Radeon 9700 Pro. And Thief: Deadly Shadows demanded every last ounce of power out of this rig and then asked for more. Those dynamic shadows, while impressive, are graphically demanding. I played at 1024x768 with all of the details cranked up. My framerates averaged around 40fps, but sometimes dropped into the 20's during some particularly complicated scenarios. To its credit, however, these framerates remained playable given the game's slow-paced gameplay.

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Adjusting the detail sliders did not seem to have much of an affect on my performance, nor, surprisingly, did enabling fullscreen anti-aliasing. The only factor which significantly affected my performance was the resolution. I have a feeling that my CPU was very much my bottleneck in this game, and someone with a faster CPU may experience much higher framerates. To re-iterate, however, I found the framerate to always be playable, if not always silky smooth. A few tweaks to the game's ini files certainly helped out my performance.

Which I feel is worth mentioning: Even though no official editor has been released yet, the game is highly configurable. I've already altered many aspects of the game, including shrinking the HUD as well as eliminating several aspects of it that I found unnecessary; Editing the loading screens to replace some artwork which I didn't care for, as well as replacing useless gameplay tips with flavor text from the first two games; Completely changing the menu screen as well as lots, lots more. Almost every aspect of the game can be altered to the user's liking, with a little bit of work.

Overall, I can find precious little reason not to recommend Thief: Deadly Shadows to anyone even remotely interested in its premise. The only major barring factor here is performance: You will need a fairly capable PC in order to enjoy this game in its full glory. A GF3-level card or above is the bare minimum, and I recommend at least a Radeon 9500 or above. Still, if you can meet these requirements, and the idea of a slow-paced stealth game that's absolutely dripping with tension appeals to you, do yourself a favor and pick up the game as soon as you can.

Dasquian Belargic
Jun 2nd, 2004, 03:56:18 AM
Great review :) I have the demo downloading at the minute. I'm really looking forward to playing the full game, but that will have to wait, unfortunately.

Shawn
Jun 2nd, 2004, 04:11:49 AM
As a postscript to the review, I thought I'd mention that John P. on the Ion Storm forums - who did high resolution versions of many of the textures in Deus Ex: Invisible War - is currently working on a high-res texture pack for Thief: Deadly Shadows. He's quite a talented texture artist, and you can see the work he did on DX:IW here (http://www.graphics-by-john-p.com/textures/DX-IW/Comparisons.html).

Here's a comparison of some of the work he's done so far: http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3519/New_Garrett_Face_As_Of_June_0104.jpg

This is the result of only about a day's work, and will likely improve before he's finished.

Alex
Jun 2nd, 2004, 04:18:10 AM
Damn, that looks good. And it's gonna get better?

Shawn
Jun 2nd, 2004, 04:32:05 AM
In all liklihood, his finalized versions will have improvements made on them, yes.

Also, since it's more appropriate here than Meras: Quotes overheard in the office during the making of the game. (Randy Smith was the project lead during the game's development)

Terri: "It's like 'Honest Earthman'. It's like the name an alien would make up to blend in with human society. 'I'm Frank Terran. No need to be suspicious of me!'"

Brian: "I haven't taken any hallucinogens for several hours now."
Randy: "this is the kind of dedication we like to see in our employees here at ISA. everyone should take note."

Emil: "I like them. I'm high."

Brian S. (via email): "...We don't want AI changes to DX2 to break T3 just because it's in a separate package that isn't source-controlled and separate between the projects. Good point, we should definitely make sure we've planned for this."
Randy: "i didn't understand everything you said, but i take it i'm very smart. since that's all i wanted to hear anyway, no need to explain."

Paul (via email): "Also, remember that the 3-months estimate is a minimum... I expect it to expand by approximately 2 weeks for every ounce of crack smoked by the T3 design team :)"
Randy: "uh oh..."
Lulu: "don't worry, Randy, an ounce of crack is an awful lot. if he'd said 'five-dollar sack' then we'd be in trouble."

Nate: "I was trying to show off that one guard could cast a shadow on to another, even if it meant implying sexual tension between them."

Jerome: Dude, and I’d reverse it so instead of trying to save the Lemmings, you’ll be trying to kill them, and there’ll be all these badass tools of destruction, and --
David: …
David: …
David: You are not well.

Randy (via email): "let's take a vote: should i fire jerome?"
David: "With the way Jerome sticks to schedules, if you fired him today he wouldn't have his desk cleaned out until Thief III ships anyways... so... might as well keep him."

Kristine: Excel made me cry once.

Josh: Any movie can be improved with scant nudity. They have to wear pants to begin with, though. I mean, like Porky Pig… every once in a while you see him without that little vest, and then it’s like oooooooh yeah… (Josh proceeds to pantomime Porky Pig rubbing his own nipples.) [side note: further proof that they were on drugs]

Jerome:
Yo, he’s Warren Spector
The gameplay injector,
Eatin’ other companies like Hannibal Lector
Warren: You be stylin’. (leaves)
Jordan: Okay, I think it’d be best if you never do anything that causes Warren to say that ever again.

Jordan: Uh, Jerome… did you log onto my PC and download the Gummi Bears theme song, in German?
Jerome: Uh… yeah. It's a dope track.

Dave K: "Looking back, I'm not quite sure how we managed to destroy the Unreal editor as completely as we did."

Ian: "Randy, when you look at me like that, I feel like I am poking a baby with a knife..."

Jordan: The noise suppressor disc was suggested by Megaphone Jerome. Don't look up. It's an irony supernova.

David: Every time you don't cap a mesh, you kill a kitten.
Nate: That's why I stick with masturbation.

Dave K. (looking at source code): So over here, in the BlameUnsolvedMurdersOn() function--
Wendy: That is the coolest function name ever. They should have that at the FBI.

Dasquian Belargic
Jun 2nd, 2004, 04:38:43 AM
Dave K. (looking at source code): So over here, in the BlameUnsolvedMurdersOn() function--
Wendy: That is the coolest function name ever. They should have that at the FBI.

That's the best :lol

Morgan Evanar
Jun 2nd, 2004, 07:30:10 AM
Jordan: The noise suppressor disc was suggested by Megaphone Jerome. Don't look up. It's an irony supernova. I am managing to keep scant composure in my office reading these quotes.

Dasquian Belargic
Jun 3rd, 2004, 10:26:11 AM
Well, I completed the demo mission yesterday. I'll post my thoughts on it after I've had a couple more run-throughs :)

Zachariah Darmok
Jun 3rd, 2004, 01:57:59 PM
I like the game, but can i get into the storyline 3 games down the line from the start? or do you think it will be difficult to grpast what the storyis about?

Morgan Evanar
Jun 3rd, 2004, 03:01:08 PM
Yes. Go buy the first two games right now.

Reign Ta-Orn
Jun 3rd, 2004, 03:59:50 PM
If i had 80 bucks ole' Morgey i would, mate.

Shawn
Jun 3rd, 2004, 08:50:19 PM
Actually, the first two games can be had for $5-10 USD about now. But if you really can't get ahold of them, I've written up detailed plot summaries here: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38879

Knowledge of the first two games, while not strictly necessary, will highly enrich your enjoyment of the third game.

imported_QuiGonJ
Jun 3rd, 2004, 09:24:55 PM
I saw Warren Spector himself demo this game at E3, and there were a few tips he offered during the demo. It looked like lots of fun, and I think I will go grab the demo now. Nice review, Shawn.

I will use the spoiler tag as it should be used here for his tips:

The thorn arrows can be used as a cushion for falling in various places, and the oil and flame arrows are good for setting up traps.

Reign Ta-Orn
Jun 4th, 2004, 02:40:01 AM
Morg, Shawn

Im having some problems actually getting the demo started;

I downloaded the thing over a period of 7 hours, a link provided by Jenny. When i click on the tab to play, it loads for a few moments and then my curser vanishes, i cant select anything or do anything. I attempted to press ctrl-esc and the tab for the game and a 'message' tab appears in the bar along with my curser and the start menu.

I go to press the message tab and the tab freezes like its indented, like i just preesed it and the curser vanishes again. I have to Ctrl-esc again to right click and close it and then when i go to press the actually game tab it comes up saying; 'we have encountered a problem, you must shut down the program' that average babble you get and then it closes down the whole thing, only to repeart if i try again.

Im restarted my comp several times, but im no technical genius.

Any ideas?

Dasquian Belargic
Jun 4th, 2004, 08:05:10 AM
Mikey, if you want to buy the first two games, you should be able to pick them both up for no more than £10. I just bought Thief 2 for £4, so I can't imagine how cheap Thief 1 must be.

Shawn
Jun 4th, 2004, 08:50:32 AM
I'm sorry, I can't exactly provide tech support, especially on such a vague description. All I can say is to make sure you have the most up to date drivers for your hardware and that you meet the minimum hardware requirements for the game.

Rasha Vill
Jun 4th, 2004, 12:00:30 PM
Over here in Canada we can buy Thief 2 second hand for $9.98 and Thief 1 second hand for $2.99. But I already have both of those and still have not beaten the game on ether 1 or 2. THESE GAMES ROCK! I love the way they chalange you. More than once I was cursing at the guards durring the level in Theif 2 there you are not aloud to confront ANY of the locals. :D

Dasquian Belargic
Jun 4th, 2004, 12:03:33 PM
They are incredibly challenging games, because there's no running in and blowing everything up. You have to really think and plot about what you're going to do. Especially since you're such a weakling.

Kyle Krogen
Jun 6th, 2004, 11:36:36 PM
Well I rented the game (On X-Box) friday and played it. Its totaly awsome!!!! Just as good as the first two but with better graphics!!!! I think it might be a bit more challenging then the first two also

I'd say this game is a must play (I only wish I could play it more) the only erk is that every now and then it will lag becuase of it slow frame rate (but that might be the X-box one only) so everyone get it, play it!

TheHolo.Net
Jun 8th, 2004, 01:28:12 PM
I got this game, played it and loved every minute of it. I have to say one thing more about it other than that; At around the midway point of the game, after smeaking and carefully listening to everything going on around you, you get to a level called the "Shalebridge Cradle". After the all of the previous buildup of your expectations of the game, this level will spook you out of your socks. At least it did me. Scariest video game stage I have ever played by far.

Shawn
Jun 8th, 2004, 02:14:59 PM
I made a post over at TTLG regarding that level. I'll quote it here:
Did I mention? This was the first time I was ever actually scared playing a videogame. I'm an avid horror fan: I grew up watching stuff like Hellraiser, A Nightmare on Elm St and such. I've probably played every horror game worth a snot, including the Silent Hills, System Shock 2, Undying, AvP2, The Suffering... and so on. I eat Stephen King for breakfast and poop out Clive Barker in the afternoon. And this is the first time I've ever actually been scared playing a game. I'm about as jaded as they come and still, I actually jumped several times while playing this mission.The developer responsible for the level, who goes by the forum name of "Null", registered shortly after to give quite a bit of insight on the story behind the Cradle. It's quite an interesting read, if you want to know more about the Asylum's past. Link: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83560

TheHolo.Net
Jun 8th, 2004, 02:40:46 PM
Thanks for the link. :)

To those reading this who haven't tried the game and are fans of good well done video games; Do it! You will not be disappointed.

Shawn
Jun 15th, 2004, 06:50:43 AM
John P. has released the first batch of high res textures. To see comparisons between the original textures and his high res ones, click here: http://www.graphics-by-john-p.com/textures/Thief-DS/Comparison.html

Also, if you'd like to play on Expert, download this little program here: http://www.team5150.com/~andrew/project.thiefbot/ Some people are experiencing a bug where the AI isn't truly acting how it should on Expert, and this trainer corrects that. It also lets you set custom difficulties.

Dasquian Belargic
Jun 19th, 2004, 04:16:52 AM
http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=archives&date=2004-06-16

^ An amusing CtrlAltDelete comic on Thief :D

Kelt Simoson
Jun 30th, 2004, 05:49:17 AM
My thoughts after playing the first few levels.

Okay, okay i hold my hands up in complete surrender.

I always, always steered clear of Thief due to the lack ( in my unplayed opinion of the game) that Thief was somewhat of a basic, unbalanced game that made no effort to challenge the player. After this thread inspired me to go buy the 3rd installment to the game and found out that i was as wrong as a dead dodo.

The graphics are great but not perfect but good enough in my opinion, the game style is bloody neat and Garrett alone is already one of my fav game characters that ive had the pleasure to play, he ranks up along side Mr.Max Payne and The Hitman number 47.

I cant give a full review of the game just yet as im still exploring the game and being only on the second area i wont be too quick to judge, however i can sell in my game experience and say that im looking forward to it a great deal.

Looking forward to the spookey level also, i've never been spooked by a game yet so im hoping this might be the level that finaly does break me. :)

Thanks for pointing this out to me Shawn and showing me how wrong i bloody well was, appriciate it.

Dasquian Belargic
Jul 3rd, 2004, 09:22:55 AM
Well, I've purchased the game. See you guys next week :p

Kelt Simoson
Jul 4th, 2004, 11:57:54 AM
I just bought The dark project....could be fun :)

Dasquian Belargic
Jul 4th, 2004, 12:37:44 PM
could? Will be - although I prefer The Metal Age.

Peter McCoy
Jul 5th, 2004, 12:57:24 AM
Me too. There was just too much undead monster slaying nonesense for a thief working a hard days night. If I want that I'll play Diablo 2 or watch Buffy. I love that level on Metal Age where its the rooftops - lots of open windows :)

Kelt Simoson
Jul 5th, 2004, 09:03:09 AM
Concerning The Dark Project...from Deadly Shadows there is a hell of a graphics drop lol hard to get used to but i expected that since the games like 5 years old.

Undead you say Pete?

Then if you dont like fighting undead and having ghosts order you around and have you do things for them in that supernatual way, you wont like Deadly Shadows my friend.

Dasquian Belargic
Jul 6th, 2004, 05:01:44 AM
I've got nothing against the undead, but Thief - as the name would imply - is about a thief. I just prefer the more complex mission types, such as sneaking into a busy building to steal some trinkets in The Metal Age over the confrontations you have with zombies in The Dark Project. Both have a supernatural element to them - but I don't really think they're necessary for the game, to be honest. It seemed just like they threw in the zombies to make the game appeal more to the shoot first, ask questions later FPS market.

Kelt Simoson
Jul 6th, 2004, 08:57:48 AM
I dont think i can really agree with that. There have been some superb FP and TP shooters that have gone without having to place undead or magical elements to the game such as Hitman and Max Payne, Medel Of Honor, Flashpoint and so on and so fourth.

I think placing the undead within the Thief series might be a bit of a mistake but it adds to the magical/mystical feel of the whole game. Why have Pagans in it for exsample? and the Pagan Controlled Monsters AND if you dont like the monterery/Undead feel your really not going to like the end of the Deadly Shadows game when you find out who really the bad 'guy' in it all is.

At the end of the day Garretts world contains these creatures and these cults and you just have to work with them or go around them. I actually like that Dungions and Dragons feel to the creature base.

Oh and Jen, i think the games a Sneak em' up rather than a Shooter :) Atleast for me anyway, the idea is to get around them rather than killing them.

Dasquian Belargic
Jul 6th, 2004, 09:30:41 AM
Yeah, I didn't say it was an FPS - but what I am saying is that by including zombies the game becomes more approachable to people who want a bit of gore and hack/slash violence to go with the stealth (which is something I don't particularly want, but as you say is part and parcel of the game and I have to work with, sadly :p). To me, a moaning member of the undead shambling towards me is about a million times less scary as a Hammer or Pagan casually strolling by and wondering if they saw something in the shadows. It just don't feel its necessary, even if their are more fantastical elements to the game (which, I might add, I enjoy - the Pagans are my favorite faction in the game :D).

Kelt Simoson
Jul 6th, 2004, 09:39:16 AM
I also enjoy more the elements of of creeping across a roof top, scaling a wall above the city gaurd or hiding in the shadows inches from your enemy, but i also enjoy the fact that it has the dungion and dragons feel also, just having a thief run around stealing things, for me, would be repetetive and frankly boring, i think the idea for the monsters would be to throw a little extra spice into the cooking pot.

And for me it taists good :).

Dasquian Belargic
Jul 10th, 2004, 08:57:52 AM
>_< I'm onto the Cradle now. Not even inside the building yet and already terrified!!

ReaperFett
Jul 10th, 2004, 09:06:32 AM
So there is Undead in this game?

Salem Ave
Jul 10th, 2004, 09:10:20 AM
Yes. So far I think they've only been in one level, but I haven't completed the game yet (although I think I'm a fair way through).

Dasquian Belargic
Jul 17th, 2004, 07:45:39 AM
I have conquered Shalebridge Cradle! Hooray! :crack

Shawn
Jul 17th, 2004, 08:04:14 AM
I think what made that level scarier for me was the fact that I didn't realize that the patients are considered undead. I had absolutely no idea how to kill them and wasn't exactly keen on trying to find out. Any time one turned in my general direction, I held my breath. I tried backstabbing the one outside of the morgue. He went down, I breathed a sigh of relief... and as I walked away, the sucker got right back and ran at me, screaming that terrible yowl of their's. :eek Needless to say, that scared the pants right off me. I frantically played a game of keep-away with it until I decided to try a vial of holy water, which saved my butt. Still, I went through the rest of the level cautiously, sure that the 3 remaining vials of holy water I had were the only way to kill them. Easily the scariest level of any game, ever.

Dasquian Belargic
Jul 17th, 2004, 08:07:12 AM
I made sure that I stocked up on fire arrows before I went in. I only had to kill a couple of the inmates, but I made sure that - once I was able to - I murdered as many staff members as possible. They made achieving objectives pretty tough, for the most part, so I happily dusted them. I saw it as them receiving their comeupance for their naughty antics with labotomies and such like ;)

Overall, awesome level. Once I got past the initial feeling of being able to play for more than ten minutes at a time, it was great fun.

Dasquian Belargic
Jul 27th, 2004, 09:00:06 AM
Well, that ended rather abruptly. Although I enjoyed the ending movies, the climax was rather... anti-climatic. I did have a few moments of sheer terror, when Gamall spotted me and stood directly in front of me, only to be distracted by some noise elsewhere, but on the whole she was pretty easy to out-fox. For some reason, I expected there to be another twist in the story, or at least a longer final cutscene. None the less, I had a lot of fun playing this – especially on the Museum level (the first time I began to use oil to achieve hilarious results! :D)

Kelt Simoson
Jul 27th, 2004, 05:32:56 PM
It has to be said i never once used to oil or moss, funny that i guess. Anyway glad you enjoy it...now splinter cell for you!...Pandora Tommrow is prolly being delivered for me tommrow :D

Shawn
Jul 27th, 2004, 05:53:21 PM
Heh. I enjoyed the Splinter Cell games alright. But I hear the Thief Devs hate them because of their linearity; They're less like "stealth" games and more like puzzle solving games (ie, there's only 1 way past this guard - figure out what that way is).

Kelt Simoson
Jul 27th, 2004, 09:18:39 PM
Well to be honest Thief has alot of depth but Thief is the same in many respects. Use different items to get past the gaurds...

Water arrows, sticky shockers for exsample.

Splinter Cell is simply a more realistic future version of Thief and what i mean by realistic is there is no magic in Splinter Cell. I disagree its simply a puzzel game. Ether way i love games you got to use your wits rather than your trigger happy hand and both games provide that.