A Most Uncharacteristic Suggestion

[Telan Desaria]

I was watching something today, I remember not what, but it got me thinking. This, as my friends will attest, can be a portent only of coming darkness.

It is with a heavy heart that I propose the following - a peace treaty negotiated with the New Republic. ICly, I am vehemently opposed not directly to the NR but its style of government - I find democracy repugnant, chaotic, and twisted. However, there are realities to consider.

We all know that a war is brewing between us and the Federacy. We can ill afford a two front war. While we have the greatest OOC and IC assets of any Imperial faction, defeating Khendon's technology will require all of our efforts.

I do not like this any more than you do and I say this IC and OOC with a heavy heart. I suggest only a cease fire between us. We will continue to expand unabated, but will be hostile to them no more.

As reparation - and contingent upon your response - we will offer Vulvarch and Teyr back to them.

I refuse to let anyone know of these sentiments outside of a secure forum, and I would ask that they remain secure. I trust you all to respect those wishes. This is embarrassing to do, but I felt it must be done.

That said, I will take no action IC or even OOC without the unanimous approval of you all. If there is one doubt, then it is off. I require everyone's input on this matter. IC details can be worked out in time, but I thought this neccessary.

Your thoughts, please.

[Tiberius Anar]

You realise that after Bestine, the Nr will not want to give us anything. If they do, it'll be a fleet coming for one of our worlds. That said, I can see a way to work this.

Bestine must degenerate into a long, drawn out, ground war for which neither we nor they are prepared. The casualties must be high, for both sides, and the possibility of success slim. We must suffer reverses in order to motivate our Ic desire to get out. And they must suffer reverses that cause them to question the virtue of the war. This will give them an IC desire to get out. Essentially we need a Europe 1918 scenario or even a Vietnam.

[Jarek T'chort]

Bestine is practically taken. With the ground defenses captured intact we stand in good stead to repell any Republic attack. Their ground troops are in retreat. Our ground troops can fortify strategic positions and dig in for a seige. The NR could blockade the planet, but with the Ion Cannons and Sheilds in our hands, we have a decided advantage. Which would be preferable to a fleet battle over the planet, which I doubt we could pull off a second time.

Though the NR will surely send a fleet to attack us, by using fortified worlds like Bestine we can slow them up. Our defenses are spread fairly thin, but then, taking the lead from Tiberius, why not turn it into Viet Cong tactics? Use small groups like Balades 4th Response squadron and launch hit and runs on the NR fleet. Harry them, pick off supply ships, that sort of thing. Do not meet them in open battle, but allow them to penetrate deep into our territory. Then encircle and smash them with a mighty fleet led by the Intimidator. Our defenses on the Federalward border can hold off even a determined attack for some time. However, these ideas would be dependant on the timetable of the NR for sending their fleet and on Khendon.

Plus, Any treaty with the Republic would be a prize propaganda tool for Khendon. He can claim to be the true vestige of the GE just by pointing to our compliance with the Republic. I would sooner see us implement these plans, as Tiberius said, inflicting heavy casualties that will make the civillian led NR question the purpose of war. They are weaker in that respect.

[Tiberius Anar]

Forgive me, sometimes I don't express myself too clearly.

What I think should happen is that the NR gets drawn into an extended battle for Bestine. Reshmar or someone committs troops to the ground war without realising that we have the advantage. Then they are cut off, in order to get them out the NR commander has to send in more troops (either that or blast the cities to rubble killing millions including his own men). Then, when they are on the surface he realises he must push us out in order to win, otherwise he will lose all his troops. To do this he goes to the Senate, they authorise a massive deployment at which point things get bloody. We committ more troops then realise the situation is hopeless, as does the NR. We call a cease fire and agree and armisitice- we withdraw and promise no more attacks, they do the same.

[Tiberius Anar]

As to the propagda.

during fight: Fighting for our homeland.

as fight drags on: brave struggle

just pre- and after withdrawal: in order to save the lives of our galllant and steadfast troops the IHC and the CHancellor have decided to withdraw. Showing the cool rationality and concern that was missing in the previous regime.

[Tiberius Anar]

OK. I have looked at this from all angles and come up with this:

The fight for Bestine is far from over. We have not taken the capital or any major settlements. We have not capture the factories and other facilities on the planet. So far we have the defence bunkers and two landing zones- the former being tentative. The war on Bestine can go on and on and on to the point where we call for a cease fire. And this is how we do it.

We secure the defence bunkers. Then the 63rd Mech and the Panzers regroup for a fast attack on the capital. The hope is to force the President of Bestine to surrender. But our forces are intercepted by units of the Bestine Ground Defence Force on the edge of the city. We take heavy losses and withdraw to a safe distance.

A decision is made, by Hagen as commander of the task force, to land additonal troops in an attempt to take the capital. This committs us to at least one more effort. This gets bogged down in streetfighting with units cut off in the city so that we cannot withdraw again nor can we bombard it. This becomes our Stalingrad- we must take the city and to do so we sacrifice troops. We bring these in from elsewhere, and use some of them to secure other vital areas. But still we cannot take the capital.

Meanwhile the NR Senate authorises a massive deployment to remove us. This will escalate the conflict to a new level of bloddiness. We begin to wonder if it is worth it- Desaria is resolute "Fight on". This means that the NR takes massive losses attempting to dislodge us and cannot stop because they are now politically committed. (Althought the Senate will not authorise an attack on SOV worlds for fear of getting dragged into an even bigger mess, and we feel the same).

Bestine bogs down into a stalemate of sorts- think western front 1916. So desperate are we that we attempt one last push on the capital. It fails, inflicting heavy losses on both sides. The commanders have no more troops to waste, the politicians no more desire to fight on, and the people no more stomach for war. We call for a cease fire and then a permanent armisitice is signed.

This accomplishes the following-

1. We have a reason for ending th fight.
2. The NR will not be a threat to us because public opinion and the law will stop them fighting another war against us.
3. We are now left with only one threat the FED, which we can now concentrate on.
4. It will produce a dramatic, realistic, epic, and enjoyable RP.

[Tiberius Anar]

This plan assumes the destruction/withdrawal of the NR fleet from Bestine space. This is inevitable given the advanced state of the space battle.

[Tear]

I agree with Telan.

The whole meaning of his plan is to not have two fronts of war being waged. Especially against the NR and the Federacy. We cant even handle the NR with all of our efforts concentrated on them. There needs to be a peace or cease fire treaty of some kind signed.

We can take back whatever we lose at a later date when the Federacey is dealt with.

A peace treaty with the Republic is useless proproganda if the Federacy isnt around to make news out of it in the first place.

[Jarek T'chort]

Tiberius - Imperial troops are in the capital, with the NR in retreat, but otherwise, you are correct. However, loosing massive numbers of troops is not a good idea, even if it did secure an armistice. What will we use to fight the Federacy? If we are so weakened by such a battle, we would lose the advantage of numerical supremacy over the FED's.

I understand that this is one of the few ways we can achive a treaty but inflicting heavy losses on the NR and making them question their attack, could be achived just as well through means as I have outlined above.

[Tiberius Anar]

Our ideology prevents us from calling for cease fire unless we absolutely have to. At present we have no IC reason to do so. This plan will create one.

A bloody campaign wityh heavy losses in the field of the sort I am talking would be enough to dishearten even our troops. We would want to get out. As for the NR they must suffer in the same way otherwise they would merrily chase us back to Thyferra.

After the campaign we get the armisitice we want to stop the NR being a threat, and we get battle hardened troops and officers with the sort of expereince needed for hit and run/city fighting of the sort that would be most effective against the Fed.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I'm inclined to lean towards Anar's proposed course of action. Keep in mind, losses are going to have to be had in order to keep the size of the Imperial factions down. It's even in the new fleet rules. As I told Anar yesterday, size is what killed the Empire last time.

Also, heavy doesn't necessarily have to mean massive, just a larger number of troops than originally thought aren't gonna make it back home.

It's not like the Sov is sending every one of their infantry divisions to Bestine. They way I see it right now, and with the current size of the Sov, I see the amount of soldiers sent to Bestine as equaling about 2/5 the total number of men in the ground forces.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Jarek T'chort]

Very well. OOC I suppose that is a better course of action. But even so, their fleet still needs to be defeated, which means my previous idea should not be discounted.

[Tear]

Well Tears still on the planet with his squad so I can lend a hand in the up coming battles with NR troops

[Tiberius Anar]

Originally posted by Jarek T'chort
Very well. OOC I suppose that is a better course of action. But even so, their fleet still needs to be defeated, which means my previous idea should not be discounted.

Their fleet needs to be defeated only after they land more troops on Bestine, otherwise this falls through. They need men trapped on the planet who can only be extracted by more fighting or by the armisitice being agreeded. Once they land the troops you can drive them off and keep them away with the skirmihing tactics.

[Telan Desaria]

For one world the size of Bestine we might commit 1/10 of all troops dedicated to assault - not counting garrisons, guards, etc.

As there seems to be agreement - let me outline my plan as Isee things arrayed now.

At present, the New Republic is withdrawing its ground forces but has not had the time to prepare an adequate evacuation leaving approximately five hundred thousand men on the surface. To supply these men that are embattled, they run convoys to the planet in a one way journey (think Japanese Destroyer-transports, Guadalcanal, 1942). Reinforcements are scarce, but they get equipment through.

This force on the surface congeals into a fighting force with which we have to attend. A number of Imperial formations are called in from about the Sovereignty ranging from tried and true Guard units to newly formed Armies that may flee/are untested. The battle commences.

As things work themselves out rather rapidly, the Republic finds itself control of one continent in its entireity with the Empire surrounding them. The battle rages as they continue to run the blockade but manage to smuggle some troops in.

Slowly but surely the Empire advances, closing the ring around the defenders. But since they have the advantage of terrain knowledger and defense, our casualties skyrocket.

Soon the numbers rise too high over a million, giving Command cause for concern. When subsequent offensives stall before the two (or however many) major cities in Republic hands, Desaria - grudgingly and on behalf of the High Command - reports to Anar on the situation and asks for diplomatic feelers to be put out. An armistice is thereafter negotiated.

Our reason for this action is military (two fronts) and to save manpower. That we can take the world is not in question, but the cost would be too high a price than we are willing to pay.

[Tiberius Anar]

I have contacted Reshmar, Lion El' Jonson and Lilaena De'Ville (who has an alter ego as Senator Thareena) outlining the plan and asking if it is doable. I will keep you all informed of develoments.

[Travis North]

Hmm... This sorta throws a wrench into Conquest. Perhaps I could get Black Sun to cause trouble.

As for the above it sounds like a good plan. Darriann will remain on the ground to do some fighting until he gets off the planet. Since it will be highly unlikely I 'll get off during the retreat.

[Tiberius Anar]

Don't worry about Conquest. We still want those kind of bases until we are forced to admit we can't win Bestine- and that won't be for a good while yet. I suggest you continue as planned, just bear in mind that it may not be used to launch full scale attacks- perhaps a few skirmishes and spy ops instead.

[Jarek T'chort]

We're now giving up Bestine?

[Telan Desaria]

Negative.

[Teleran Balades]

Teyr was never part of the NR. So are giving it to them. or just leaving the system. And now that taking Vulvarch is out of the question, whats the next target.

I haven't really though on these, just a few questions that came to mind.

[Telan Desaria]

We will relinquish the systems as a sign of good faith, yes. We will expand in oither directions against neturals and rival governments.

[Tear]

...And the Federacy?

Or am i missing the point of this whole ordeal.

[Tiberius Anar]

OOC point is to avoid Fed conflict. So pretty much yes.

As for future attacks on NR, you may plan them, you may discuss them IC. But please don't get to a point where you actually attack. What ought to happen is for us to slowly get side tracked by the whole Bestine problem and forget the other plans we may have as we desperately try to salvage the Bestine campaign. Then of course we get the armisitce whcih scuppers them anyway.

Reshmar and De'Ville are both on board- looking for Senatrs now. Reshmar will be in touch with Jarek soon to arrange the closure of the current Bestine thread in prep for a second to run the ground war in.

[Tear]

Originally posted by Tiberius Anar
OOC point is to avoid Fed conflict. So pretty much yes.


Avoid conflict with the Federacy? I thought the whole point for trying to get a cease fire with the NR would be so we could send all our forces against the Federacy..

Seems everyone is pretty dead set that there will be a war so i dont see how we will "Avoid fed conflict" Anar.

[Jarek T'chort]

So much for a "grand offensive".

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I kinda thought the NR deal was being done so as to allow the Sov to focus on building up against the Fed :huh

[Tiberius Anar]

It was but the IC implications of the Bestine debacle will be such that we don't want another war with another strong opponenet. Also I remind you that it is Khen who wants this war, not us. So we don't go piling outr troops towards him. We go after the small neutrals with Hawk Fleet. And if we do get attacked we just happen to have a few million men who were destioned for the NR-Sov war, sitting around waiting for something to do.

[Jarek T'chort]

Whoa wait a minute.

Bestine is now a debacle? I am not happy with this. Bestine is practically taken. We have routed their fleets. Now there is no problem with having the NR attack it to regain the world, but I do have a problem with Bestine suddenly being turned into a defeat.

And yes, we are not trying to avoid conflict with the FED, we are practically at war with them already IC.

[imported_STELA'SHLIT'NURUODO]

Bestine wont be a defeat. or isnt at this time. Reshmar Will be sending in more troops. It will take months for Reshmar to rebuild his fleet and return. The rest of the fleet is spread out all over the galaxy and Having to deal with other issues. What I beleave Tiberius is wanting is an extended Ground War. I talked with Tear about it. Reshmar will be sending in More Troops to help hold the planet untill which time He can mount a counter Attack. You still hold Bestine but we have men there and more on the way. Getting them there will be a chalange but I got ideas hehehe.

[imported_STELA'SHLIT'NURUODO]

As for the Fed. They are Set on the war. Khendon will attack.

[Telan Desaria]

Our purpose is to turn our focus against the enemy. The Federacy is set on a war, so we shall give them one.

Jarek - fear not, our Grand Offensive will not die. It will simply find new targets. And by no means is Bestine to be a debacle. You fought hard - you all did - and I will not allow that to change. What we are speaking of is a small (100-300,000) band of Republic troops left on the planet for us to eliminate. They may try to retake it, but they will fail.

I wish there were a way to forestall Khendon's offensive. I wish it did not have to take place. There is no one inside these walls who does not know just how much I hate what is happeneing. I have no control, however.

I am considering a pre-emptive strike against the Feds. Thoughts?

[Tiberius Anar]

I apologise I have misexpressed myself in this matter. I use the term "debacle" to describe the subsequent ground war in the sense that we were held back by so small a force.

[Tiberius Anar]

Lion is onboard

[Tear]

A pre-emptive against the Federacy was something i mentioned...months n months ago. :p But Nooooo dont listen to the intelligence officer.

Er Anyway..

I dont think we should throw a pre-emptive instead...We pretty much know IC the Federacy is going to attack with all the skirmishes occuring and political stuff. Not to mention i kidnapped his family.

So I propose we bolster our defenses. Have weapon platforms on 24 hour standby, with fighters running scouting missions around the edge of your systems. Mean while we gather all available naval and army detatchments into two Groups.

One Fleet will by on standby somewhere near the boarder between us and the federacy. (Call it Fleet#1) Now when Khendon attacks it'll take time no doubt for fleet 1 to arrive but hopefully with our scouts and battle platforms on the ready they can hold out for a while until the fleet jumps in behind Khendon pinning him between his target and Fleet#1. (which will or should have indictators )

The next fleet will be larger then the defense fleet. When Khendon attacks instead of meeting him to defend they will jump and counter attack while he is attacking. Khendon doesnt have our numbers so lets use that to our advantage. We can hit more targets then he can. So lets do that. The main purpose of this fleet is to destroy Khendons ability to wage war. Targetting shipyards and weapons facilities. Most likely Delteon, I believe?

I think that is also his homeworld so it is more likely to be the heaviest defended planet. But its also the heart of his Empire. If we secure that or throw it into disaray we weaken him.

So in summary, let Khendon make the first move that way we can move around him to the parts hes exposed.

I think most of you know i wont be taking part in this war because Khendon and I dont get along.

But ill be able to mix it up with the Republic boys and make sure Bestine stays ours.

[Tiberius Anar]

I strong advise caution here. We are on fair thin ice as it is- we are engineering a situation where by we free up troops and ships in preparation for this war. If we then set them up so that they can easily repel a Fed attack or strike at them I suspect that Khen will ahve something to say- probably "no fair!". But that's not to say we can't set up defences antyway- just so long as they don't use anything that gets freed up by the armistice it is ok. We have the ships and troops spare don't we?

[Tear]

Khendon is already prepping for war. If you look at some of his more recent posts about the Federacy his populace is calling for Sovereignty blood or whatever and their factorys are gearing up for War.

War is upon us theres no changing it. Theres only preparing for it and making sure we are victorious. This isnt just ooc knowledge its pretty evident IC knowledge that the federacy is set on war.

[Telan Desaria]

I agree indeed. While we not launch an offensive without any hostile action, as I have considered that matter, we will continue to reinforce the border. In a short while I will post a classified listing of defenses so that when a planet is attacked and we post our defense measure, they cannot say we are god moding - and you all, along with the admins, can vocuh for that.

Currently, there is the OverSector Fleet Outer along the border. It has been reinforced significantly and is currently the largest single formation in the Empire, with the Central Sector Fleet a close second. It has, as a rough figure, on the order of twenty Destroyers and approximately one hundred support craft ranging from heavy cruisers to pickets. To say that there are at least two hundred fighter squadrons attached would not be an over-estimate.

This fleet is hedgehogged in its positioning so that any assault can be responded to. It is thusly divided into four heavy squadrons, two fast attack squadrons, two support wings, and one battle flotilla.

[Teleran Balades]

Let's not try to turn this into a war where we have 20-30 ships per battle. That gave fleeting a bad name in the first place. It's much more enjoyable to beat some one with good writing and a well-planed strategy.

[Telan Desaria]

Indeed. I was simply dispelling a myth.

[Tiberius Anar]

UPDATE...

I just recieved details of the NR counter attack force that will be deployed after the Senate authorises it. This is OOC info only and is not to be used for our benefit IC.

Reshmar wrote on the 24th July-

Hey.

Just wanting to touch base on what I have been working on for the Next Bestine battle. We will be putting around 20,000 Elite Troopers and equipment on Bestine. Lots of heavy support in some areas. I.E. 6 Liquadators and other assorted armor, air cav units, and Mechs.

This will be done in 3 divisions.

One lead by Scotts NPC which will be using his designed suits and equipment. (look them over they are a bit out there) This division will be the main body of our forces. and consists of 8000 troops in battle suits with heavy armor support.

One division will be LEad by General Scorpion. This Division consists of 6 Liqudator Cruiser and 5,000 aquatic and Defensive troops. It will set up a beech head of sorts and handle all aquatic operations as well as provide a safe zone for our forces to fal back on if needed.

The Last Division will be lead by My general Forlon Character. It will consist of 7,000 or so fast reaction Troopers. This is our air cav Division. will be used as needed for flanking and to assist the main force.

I have talked with Tear. there will be a group of 60 troopers going in before the main battle to co ordinate and to take down the shiled long enough for the main force to land. This will be done by Mistyl Stelth Corvette and be handeled by Colonel Tie Yamagi.

Fleet ops will be as fallows.

Line Captain Scotts fleet will drop out of hyperspace and engage your fleet at a distance and lead them away from Bestine. Colonel Yamagis fleet will drop in behind your fleet and cut you off from Bestine. A 3rd fleet which is the assualt fleet will then enter from the other side of bestine. land troops and leave. Once they are gone Scotts fleet and Ties Fleet will disengage and leave the system leaving only the troops pn the ground and setting up the ground battle.

The Senate will be meeting and in the end declare a cease fire and order the withdraw of all military forces on bestine handing over the planet to the Sov.



As to the Senate meeting I'm setting that up right now.

[Tiberius Anar]

A few things to report.

1. The Senate thread is finally getting under way.

2. Lion posted an IC version of his plan I'll post a link in a mo.

3. The legal wrangling will begin shortly.

[Tiberius Anar]

http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=36526