Xazor vote -IMPORTANT - Please reply

[TheHolo.Net]

It has been less than three months since Xazor was temp banned due to a minor infraction regarding infiltration (sharing info from a private forum), and now after having been warnd verbally by me telling her to be on her best behavior she has risen the ire of the staff again and been so disrespectful I find it appaling and as the last straw.

In this Link (showthread.php?s=&threadid=35390thread), as one of her alt accounts (Zacharia Dawnstrider) she subverted the swear filter via this sentence "We all know what happens when one ASSumes things." Per FAQ section V.J.

That in itself was not all that brought about this current thread and upcoming discussion, but it was what followed that disregard for the FAQ which brings us here.

Eve sent Zacharia Dawnstrider a PM informing her that we knew she was Xazor, which she denies in the thread linked earlier, and issued her a warning in regards to the breach of FAQ policy.

She totally ignored the warning saying nothing about her actions in her reply to Eve, trying to only shift blame to someone else as the last sentence of her reply. And here is what brings us to the purpose of this thread. The bulk of her reply to Eve's warning in regards to breach of the FAQ policy, she denied she was Xazor, flat out lying to an administrator.

We have IP evifence, as well as email address evedence, and even posting times between the Zacharia Dawnstrider acount and the Xazor account that prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that she is indeed Xazor.

Lying to any staff member of these forums as it pertains to your identity is in itself a breach of the FAQ and the "Sock Puppet" policies, not to mention just downright disrespectful and not very smart.

So the vote portion of this thread comes down to this: Vote yes or no to a SWFans.Net boardwide ban for repeated FAQ violations as it pertains to Xazor and her accounts.

I am witholding my vote so as not to be of any influence in the other staffer's opinions.

[TheHolo.Net]

Please take note of this thread -LINK (showthread.php?s=&threadid=34703)- which better explains Xazor's previous temp banning.

[Lady Vader]

I have one question:

I know Zacharia is Xazor's account, but couldn't it be possible that she gave the account to her bf/fiance? Hence the whole "I'm not Xazor" thing?

Yes, she has posted with Zacharia before, and it's been apparent it was her account due to IP and email, but it could be possible that she gave it to her bf/fiance recently.

I'm not defending her, just trying to be fair, is all.

[TheHolo.Net]

The PM response made it very evident it was Xazor. When the temp ban occured, she tried to blame Charley for it, and in her reply to Eve in this case she tried to shift blame to Charley.

I have no doubt whatsover that it is Xazor.

[Shawn]

She gave a somewhat flimsy excuse for it being someone else using the account, did not specify who, and then went on to defend "her" actions under that account name.

Believe it or not, I'm probably the person who least enjoys banning members. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth and only looks bad on our parts. But I honestly can't see any good of keeping her around.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Her excuse, as I read it, was that "couldn't it be possible that someone else was using this account who isn't even Xazor?" the same old smoke and mirrors bullshit that she tries to pull so ineffectually.

I'd say another temp. ban, but then, when is she going to learn her lesson?? NEVER.

[imported_Eve]

Originally posted by Shawn
She gave a somewhat flimsy excuse for it being someone else using the account, did not specify who, and then went on to defend "her" actions under that account name.

Right. She defends herself while implying she isn't who she is. Does that make sense (when I say that)?

On a further note, I would add that each time Xazor has been reprimanded, instead of taking responsibility for her actions, she usually defies the staff (or whomever is the messenger) by being confrontational, talking back, and arguing, and proceeds to place blame on others.

She has not once exibited any responsibility or regret for doing anything wrong. And this attitude keeps her making mistakes. No respect for the rules or the staff keeps landing her here.

I didn't reply to her last PM because no matter what I said, she would argue in turn. I could tell her the sky is blue, and she would tell me it wasn't, and it was someone else's fault.

So...

1 - Has she done enough to be perma-banned? Considering the big picture of things she has done, I don't think she necessarily did things intentionally. Not thinking before she spoke landed her here. BUT that is no excuse for infiltration and disrepecting the staff.

2 - She has been warned about her attitude before. She WAS told if she continued such behavior, she would be perma-banned. She has continued.

I quote the FAQ:

How will the Staff contact me, if I have done something wrong?

Answer: If you have broken SWFans policy, a staff member will warn you. The warning may take place in the thread where the violation occurs, or may be PMed or e-mailed by a Staff Member, to you.

If you are warned you should take any warning very seriously, and cease all actions which violate our policies. While you may feel angry, or even disagree with the staff's decision to warn you, arguing, flaming, and insulting the staff is not permitted. This community is not a democracy; it is a privately owned board, and decisions from the staff are not debateable. Threads or posts that make an attempt to incite debate over action against anyone by the staff will be closed without warning.

3 - She has violated the FAQ the following ways:

A - Spamming: Although no official warning ever went to her, she used to fill the OOC forums with her goodbye threads. So much so, we (the staff) had to tell her to combine the threads once.

B - Infiltration: See incident at Meras/HELL linked to above (which was her second time).

C - Swearing/Breaching Swear Filter Policy: See incident linked to above concerning her use of the word "ASSume".

D - Repeatedly, arguing with the Staff over her warnings, which IS a violation of the FAQ.

E - Lying about her identity or using a sock puppet, which Ogre spoke about above.

That represents five (four if you don't count spamming) counts of violating the FAQ here. I would say that is worth being banned.

[Figrin D'an]

Most people likely know that I really don't care for Xazor that much. I feel most people would also agree that I've been more than fair when dealing with her in regards to GJO.

She's been around for several years, and considering a ban of a long-time board member is something that I really don't like to do. However, as I mentioned in the thread from a few months ago, she has a well-documented history of flying off the handle at statements or comments even slightly contrary to her own opinion. When she does that, more often that not, she ends up breaking certain rules, even if they are minor. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I see this as a "three-strikes-and-your-out" situation, except that Xazor has gotten about a dozen strikes. The case against her has built over time, and, IMO, it is(was) only a matter of time before she found herself facing a ban. Attempts to pass blame have been part of her ongoing story for years, and to be frank, she has no one to blame but herself. She chose to react as she has, and that behavior has gotten her in trouble.


In light of this, the other documented cases of her breaches of board policy, and the simple fact that she has shown no effort to improve her disposition, I feel compelled to vote for a ban.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I konw for a fact Zacharhai (sp) is Xazor, all you have to do is ask me, you dont need the IP / email. I do not believe her b/f has any interest in this place, so I very much doubt it's been handed on. My thought was she was playing a silly game and that game was not in fact bannable.

But it is infiltration as you must admit who you are to admin staff.

Unless it was her b/f or a friend of her's, which I doubt, she's done herself in. Ban.

[Sanis Prent]

<font size=7>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!</font>

Ban.

[Lady Vader]

Ok, I just wanted to be fair by asking.

But in all honesty, I've seen both sides to Xazor, and even been witness to it with what happened at the Ladies Lounge.

I don't like the idea of banning long-time members like many here, but if there is a constant lack of disrespect towards the mods/admins, even after several warnings, then the answer is quite clear in this case

Ban.

[Zasz Grimm]

Constant disrespect to administrators shouldn't be tolerated, IMO. She's been a nuisance as of late and a thorn in many peoples sides. And lying to an adminstrator = not cool. I, like everyone else dislike banning someone who has been here for so long, but she's been warned many times, even had a temporary banning. I doubt she'll change at all.

Ban.

[Ryla Relvinian]

She has not once exibited any responsibility or regret for doing anything wrong. And this attitude keeps her making mistakes. No respect for the rules or the staff keeps landing her here.

I didn't reply to her last PM because no matter what I said, she would argue in turn. I could tell her the sky is blue, and she would tell me it wasn't, and it was someone else's fault.

Eve, you hit the nail on the head here.

I think the biggest thing we are dealing with here is a simple issue of maturity. Not age-related, per se, although that does factor in to the equation, but rather a simple willingness to accept criticism with grace and patience, which, although many many people have extended multiple olive branches to her over these years, she still continues to act like she's the lord high almighty of all that is perfect and right with the world.

In her defence, there have been some members who have purposefully taunted her and tried to incite a responce, and yes, you all know who you are and I don't think any of you need to apologize for that. There have been times where people have used her hot-headedness against her, times where others should have known better before they placed stumbling blocks before her.

However, the issue of flat-out uninstigated disrespect is a very important one here, and certainly one she has been aware of.

I feel awful about wanting to ban someone, but then I remember how rude she was to everyone around the GJO when her Xazor account was locked out for being one of TLJ. I remember all the times she has caused problems, and insulted people, and been a general annoyance, and I remember that every time someone even so much as questions her opinion, they are labeled as "shallow."

We've had enough Last Chances. Ban.

[Alana Stormcloud]

Sigh.... I truly enjoy rping with Xaz there were times we did not get along and I found just talking to her, she can be a great person. I do know she has a tendency to get very upset and fly off the handle if you will. I think she is just very young when it comes to her getting angry. I have a hard time even thinking of perma banning Xaz. I do not agree with her lying about her characters, and I do not agree with being disrespectful to the Addies. I know myself that Ogre is very tolerant of a lot of thing having argued with him myself on a few occasions. Though heated he remained professional so I think if it has come to this where he has no more tolerance for her behavior then Ban it is. Though I would like to say I would prefer her not to be banned but that is due to the fact that I enjoy her rp style and I enjoy Xaz period but then I haven’t had the confrontations you all have had except once. I don't talk to her much, so obviously I don't have the experience with her like others have had. I don't think she means to mess up, I think she is just very opinionated and has not learned yet how to temper her anger and how she handles things.

If she violated the FAQ then Ban. Does it have to be a perma ban though? :(

[Dasquian Belargic]

For all the reasons already listed, Ban.

[imported_Ambrose Braeden]

I have not delt with Xazor long, but the little that i have, she has been nice to me.

But I know that she needs to be punished for her actions, no matter what.

I think that if we just temp-ban her again, she will think that she can keep doing the same thing because all that will happen is a temp-ban. Maybe some strict diciplin is in order. Ban

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Alana Stormcloud
Does it have to be a perma ban though? :(

This has always been the dilemma we've faced before. How many times warrants a ban? How many second chances? Yes, its generally unpleasant to dismiss somebody from the forums, and generally the benefit of the doubt is in order. However, she's been warned on numerous occasions AND temp-banned before.

The failsafes that prevent such permanent action from happening have been released. We knew this. She knew this. In the face of this, she acted against the rules.

I make it no secret that I dislike Xazor greatly. That being said, I've dealt with her and others I feel the same way about in the same manner, and that's with a fair shake. Making people mad isn't against the rules. Breaking the rules are against the rules.

I don't make any excuses about it. I'm not a nice guy, but I am fair. I've disliked her from the moment she set foot on these forums, but those feelings are irrelevant in regards to policy, and they shouldn't enter into it.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

In the few times I've interacted with Xazor, I have been unimpressed with her attitude and her opinion that she can go around the rules without any consequences.

ban.

[Morgan Evanar]

Xazor's attitude and general unwillingness long ago earned her a spot in my Area of Dislike. Her behavior is inconsistent. She has a tendency to backstab people.

She's lied to the administration on this board on more than one occasion, and shows zero regret for her actions.

[DarthHERA]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an



In light of this, the other documented cases of her breaches of board policy, and the simple fact that she has shown no effort to improve her disposition, I feel compelled to vote for a ban.


Xaz has ridden the "Ban warning" merry-go-round too often.

Banning is our reasonable response.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Small question: If this banning goes through, (which it really looks like it will,) how will this message be presented to the general populace? A simple notification? A long explanation? I'm not sure which would be better, honestly. I guess it's not really for me to decide, but she does have her allies, you know. I'm not sure we can just say she's banned without a whole deluge of commentary.

*thinking*

[Charley]

IMO, a simple notification would be best. One that cites rules that were violated, actions taken, and leaves it at that.

Its the best way to deflate residual drama, I think. It's also generally how this kinda thing is done.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Ryla Relvinian
Small question: If this banning goes through, (which it really looks like it will,) how will this message be presented to the general populace? A simple notification? A long explanation? I'm not sure which would be better, honestly. I guess it's not really for me to decide, but she does have her allies, you know. I'm not sure we can just say she's banned without a whole deluge of commentary.

*thinking*



While that is true, I don't really think we should handle this any differently from any other banning. She is a long time poster, and she does have some friends that will likely be very upset, but the bottom line is that she, like everyone else here and including all of us, is subject to the same set of rules and policies. We usually don't offer big explanations in threads about bannings, and we don't allow big melodramatic threads about them. If someone desires details, they can contact the board staff via PM.

I don't think the precidents set for banning procedure should change here. Length of time as a board member shouldn't be a factor in such things.

[Silus Xilarian]

Everything's been stated. Ban.

[Pierce Tondry]

Ban notification procedure has previously merited a simple explanation of board policy and how it has been violated in the case of the given member, as Charley described. It should be no different in this case.

No one is exempt from the board rules. Xazor has had her last chance and should be banned.

Also, no one is holding anyone at gunpoint and forcing them to come to the board. If anyone is dissatisfied with the decisions of the staff as it comes to banning, they are welcome to post elsewhere.

[Gav Mortis]

Originally posted by Silus Xilarian
Everything's been stated. Ban.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

I tried to get her to keep out of trouble. I really tried. :( Dammit.

I'm going to make the unpopular vote here. No. Give her one more chance, and in doing so give me one more chance to try and turn her around.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Sorsha Kasajian
I tried to get her to keep out of trouble. I really tried. :( Dammit.

I'm going to make the unpopular vote here. No. Give her one more chance, and in doing so give me one more chance to try and turn her around.


As much as I would like her to get another chance, the charge as I see it is Infiltration, for that's what lying to a Admin who you are amounts to. Infiltration is our sole hanging offense and that is a break in the trust of the RP community. Not once, but twice, correct? (And as I remember, the toughness of the Infiltration rules came in while on my watch. I have to remember that when voting)

Maybe she doesnt grok the Infiltration rules and how serious they are. Maybe she doesnt grok that not everything 'bad' that happens isnt her fault. Maybe she doesnt grok that not 'everyone picks on her'

Maybe.

But when it's said and done, she's broken rules that I've banned others for, so I cant give her special treatment, even if I have honestly tried to change her and defend her for quite a long time. There's just a point where you just have to admit defeat.

Kitty, I respect your sentiments, but I tell you honestly, I said the same thing two years ago, I tried my best and yet, here we are again. If these were isolated incidents, then yeah, chance should be give. But she's doen a death by a thousand cuts. Backchatting Ogre and lying to an admin is just asking to be banned.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

I know. =/ I tried to warn her.

[Pierce Tondry]

Originally posted by Sorsha Kasajian
Give her one more chance, and in doing so give me one more chance to try and turn her around.


Originally posted by Pierce Tondry
No one is exempt from the board rules. Xazor has had her last chance and should be banned.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Sorsha Kasajian
I'm going to make the unpopular vote here. No. Give her one more chance, and in doing so give me one more chance to try and turn her around. That is the problem here, she has been given another chance, at least once. Being temp banned should be warning in itself that you are not behaving correctly and should be enough to make one try to evaluate their ways and try to fix them before something more serious happens, yet in this case it did not.

We are thus left with no choice but to take the action called for in this thread, else no one will ever take our rules and warnings seriously. No one is above the rules, even long time posters, so as many others have already said, and I now say as well. Ban is my vote.

No, I don't like to do it, yes, I wish there was another option, but I also realize that the other options have been used up already and action must be taken.

I am going to write up an "Announcement". Announcements cannot be replied to and are our standard means to inform the community of bannings. Then before posting it, I will email Xazor, and begin going through the tedious process of banning all of her various accounts, email address, and IP range, and once thta is all done the announcement will be posted to inform all.

Thanks to everyone for particpating in this, I know that it is far from enjoyable or fun, but is something that must be done to keep our rules respected.

[TheHolo.Net]

Here is a list of the names being banned. If you know of any others that belong to Xaz, please let me know.

Amarth
Anthony Scott
Carmen Darksun
Damien Steele
Dantae Scott
Danya Van Derveld
Darkness
Demon Cherice
Dire Wolf
Elijah Kalrico
Faith Scott
Feliciana Devano
Ice War'Ning
Innocent Light
K'uei Ketsu
Kaiasssuri Cissaroni
Kaukauana
Loraine Blessing
Royal Messenger
Xaz'
Xazor Elessar
Zacharia Dawnstrider
Zandaria Manaachia
Zara Drecker

[Navaria Tarkin]

:: blinks ::

And I thought I was bad... o_O quick look and I see those that I know of.

[Pierce Tondry]

Thank you for handling this Ogre. You will probably catch flak you don't deserve for banning Xaz, but you are doing the right thing and you have a "thumbs-up" in my book.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

I understand perfectly, Ogies. You have my full support, I just wished I could have helped.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Sorsha, she's been around since the beginning of the boards under different names, and if she hasn't learned how to behave by now, no amount of you trying to turn her around will help.

And in case my first post wasn't clear enough - ban.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Hol, you're so right here. I remember from the very start, after I figured out that she = Fire Haz, I suddenly understood exactly what was up. I'm sure she'll rant and rave and all that, but frankly, I think this is the right course of action.

[Gav Mortis]

Xazor wasn't actually Fire Hazzard was she?

[Zasz Grimm]

She is.

[Charley]

Indeedily doodily.


The ironing is delicious.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Gav Mortis
Xazor wasn't actually Fire Hazzard was she?

Yep. And if you really want to go old skool, Shay Kaylon too. I dont think many, if any know that she was actually at jawafortress.net.


There could only be 3 -4 who posted on jawafortress.net left.

[Gav Mortis]

Oh well, she should've been banned long ago - her pretending to be someone else OOC was totally repeticious, lame and immature; why it took so long to give her the boot I'll never know given this revelation.

[Charley]

I suppose it's due to that character jumping ship about 3 years ago.

IIRC, there was about a half year gap between Fire's last post and Xazor's appearance (Spring 2001 and December 2001 respectively).

[Gav Mortis]

Fair enough, it's just that I see what she has been up to as nothing short of making a mockery out of the trusting and genial community here while adopting numerous different OOC aliases and running amuck with them. Anyone who does that, I feel, has issues and shouldn't be allowed to so blatently mislead people across the forums.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

As a side issue related to this topic, those of us who had active threads with her are in a bit of a quandry. Needle in the Nerfsteaks in particular since it involves a story arc between Sorsha and Satine. So to this end I've been communicating with Xazor via e-mail as what to do given the situation. One option brought up is Sorsha killing off Xazor, and as soon as it's decided I'll post proof of permission here for confirmation.

I really don't like doing it this way, but the circumstances have narrowed the options.

[AmazonBabe]

I knew Xazor was Fire Hazard, but the Shay Kaylon caught me by surprise. :eek

[Figrin D'an]

I had figured out that Xazor = Fire Hazard a while ago, and I presumed that she = Shay Kaylon given certain evidence.

I comtinue to be amazed that she survived this long, even with the gaps of time inbetween her different personalities.

[AmazonBabe]

Oh! Oh! Can we start taking bets as to whether she comes back in about 6 months or a year?? (<-- ok, is mean ^_^; )

[Figrin D'an]

To be honest... I wouldn't be surprised if she tried.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Ditto. I'm thinking at least... two more attempts to register, three vicious e-mails to other forum members and... let's say... an ice cube's chance in hell that she actually admits she was wrong at any point in time. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Silly rabbit, Xazor was never wrong. Just misunderstood.






*falls down laughing*

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Silly rabbit, Xazor was never wrong. Just misunderstood.


Of course. I mean, the thread over in Hell proves it. All of us just never got it until now.


:rolleyes

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Ryla Relvinian
Ditto. I'm thinking at least... two more attempts to register, three vicious e-mails to other forum members and... let's say... an ice cube's chance in hell that she actually admits she was wrong at any point in time. :)

1) Three goes at using someone else's accounts so far

2) 4 vicious emials I know of

3) Nope, she's blaming everyone but herself.

A BIG ROUND FUCK YOU to her.


Race day, I'm outta here :D

[Ryla Relvinian]

Wow, that's pretty harsh coming from you, Mark, since you two were friends at some point?

And just out of curiosity, which accounts did she try to get at?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Ryla Relvinian
Wow, that's pretty harsh coming from you, Mark, since you two were friends at some point?

And just out of curiosity, which accounts did she try to get at?

One of mine for starters. And then the lying bitch tried the oh, it was my cousin routine!

Eh.... whatever. Marcus played rally driver today and stupid liar on other side of world mean very litte.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Good for Mark. :)

And it wasn't that she 'tried' to, she did get to the account.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Smiply mahhhhhvelous.

Oh well. At least this just shows anyone with faith in second chances (self included) that not all people are ready, willing and able to reform.

[Silus Xilarian]

I have all the faith in the world for second chances. Its when it becomes 400-500 chances things get a bit silly.

[imported_Ambrose Braeden]

LOL.

That was a good one Silus. But yet I agree with you totally.

[Lady Vader]

She accessed your acount and then tried to blame it on someone else?

WHAT A FUCKING SURPRISE! I THINK I'M GONA HAVE A HEART ATTACK FROM THAT SURPRISE! [/Iago]

|I

[Ryla Relvinian]

*patpat* You're so shy and retiring, dear. :)

[Navaria Tarkin]

good lordy.. who pissed in flower girl's cereal this morning O_o

[imported_Ambrose Braeden]

LOL:lol

[Sasseeri Reeouurra]

*mutters* Hussy. She took all the good males and brrroke thejirrr hearrrts, and then leaves wjithout gjivjing them my numberrr? :mad

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

poor pussy cat :(

[Silus Xilarian]

haha, s'Il said pussy

[Navaria Tarkin]

:: beats Silus over the head with the real bat ::

That wasn't foam boyo!

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Silus always makes fun of me :cry

[AmazonBabe]

Originally posted by Navaria Tarkin
good lordy.. who pissed in flower girl's cereal this morning O_o

^_^;

*Gives her a flower* :)

[Navaria Tarkin]

:D

thank you!

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Navaria Tarkin
good lordy.. who pissed in flower girl's cereal this morning O_o

It was my cat