Robert Jordan's influence on Sw-Fans in the area of Sensing Force Users

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I was reading Crossroads of Twilight, and I think that perhaps the Aes Sedai have crept into our RPing more than we'd like. ;) An Aes Sedai (or any saidar user) can instantly tell when someone has embraced saidar. They can even see the 'weaves' when someone channels it.

In Star Wars, the Jedi use the Force much like the Aes Sedai use saidar. However, other Jedi can't 'sense' them using the Force IIRC, they just see the reactions of it. In an RP we often see people 'hiding themselves' in the Force by not using it, although even if you did use it, no one should be able to know more than that you'd done something normally impossible, like amplify your voice, or move an X-Wing out of a swamp.

Thusly, (in the EU) Luke couldn't just walk up to someone and say "omg u a jedi 2?" because he couldn't sense their capabilities/potential in the Force. I know the Jedi Acadamy series is generally a load of crap in many people's eyes, so I don't know how to RP a 'test' to prove that someone has the Force, but certainly Luke and even Darth Vader let Leia slip right under their noses, without even a thought that she was also capable of using the Force too.

In the Prequels it is suggested/made apparent, that a blood test could signal to the Jedi that a child was more Force sensetive than a rock, and therefore a canidate for the Temple.

Seeing "Force signatures" therefore, I believe is a load of crap and should stop being RPed. And I will start right now. I think I'll also start testing new apprentices at K.A. with a blood test to make sure they have potential.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Seeing "Force signatures" therefore, I believe is a load of crap and should stop being RPed.


I generally agree with this statement. Seeing a Force-aura around someone goes against quite a bit of what we consider canon material. Sensing ripples or aftereffects of someone else's actions in the Force seems reasonable, though.

To what degree an individual can sense those ripples is dependent upon that person's strengths or weaknesses in the Force. Someone strong in the Living Force would be far more adept at sensing smaller tremors, or determining the origin of a particular disturbance, than someone more focused on the Unifying Force.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

If you happened to be paying attention, or had a high enough level of skill to do such a thing without really thinking about it, yes. Should an apprentice be able to do this? No, I don't think so.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
If you happened to be paying attention, or had a high enough level of skill to do such a thing without really thinking about it, yes. Should an apprentice be able to do this? No, I don't think so.

Yes, I agree. This is, in fact, how I Rp out Ryla's various skills in terms of sensing through the Force. One, it's more of a sensing Emotion and less of actual Force usage, and Two, it's incredibly basic, even for her, and she is a Master. For example, I don't let her sense things that have happened in the past, or simply see people and tell if they are Force-sensitive or not. Rather, it's like a give and take. They draw on something nearby, and you feel a slight pull, like swirling water in a bathtub. The Force is often described as a web or a current, and that is the way I see it. :)

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
If you happened to be paying attention, or had a high enough level of skill to do such a thing without really thinking about it, yes. Should an apprentice be able to do this? No, I don't think so.


It depends upon the person's actions in the Force as well. Using the Force to kill someone is going to produce a stronger ripple than using it to lift a rock.

[Vishan Korogoth]

blood test? eh.... that only work because of midichlorian count and I know alot of us hate that (not sure who does like it hehe)..including myself ... (Nav here by the way)...while I do agree that sensing others using the Force makes more sense then having an aura, I don't see another way right off the bat to actual prove someone is Force sensitive then that manner.

[Droo]

I've never had any of my characters sense a Jedi or usage of the Force, I can't abide the presence of "Force Auras" either, as such I'll just continue roleplaying the way I usually do.

[Morgan Evanar]

Originally posted by Dru
I've never had any of my characters sense a Jedi or usage of the Force, I can't abide the presence of "Force Auras" either, as such I'll just continue roleplaying the way I usually do. I am part of the Drustack.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I've tried to stay in the "Drustack" although I just admitted to being a little swayed in the direction of sensing signatures, etc, especially in the past "when I didn't know any better." :p Gonna be better about it now.

[Tear]

I could write a huge list of things that are done with the force by people on these boards that are normally only seen in super hero comic books.

[Pierce Tondry]

I personally believe the Force amplies who a person is, and what they do. Therefore, to sense someone strong in the Force is like hearing someone speak at a normal voice among a crowd of whisperers. People with proportionally strong Force presence give off greater vibes, they call attention to themselves. Whether there are people trained to pick them out of a crowd watching, is another matter altogether.

[Marcus Telcontar]

In an RP we often see people 'hiding themselves' in the Force by not using it, although even if you did use it, no one should be able to know more than that you'd done something normally impossible, like amplify your voice, or move an X-Wing out of a swamp.

The theroy of hiding is quite "not using" as I see it, for I think it's possible for a well trained person to sense that someone has an unusal affinity with the Force, much like Qui Gon sensed soemthing was not quite normal about Anakin.

My theory is that you try to become one with the ebbs and flows, making it look like a normal person, whcih takes control. A Jedi is normally going to have an effect on the Force just by their existance. and usually isnt going to mask it. The Force is a constant companion I think and a Jedi is constantly using and consulting with it.

....

which is becoming a long winded I agree with Pierce.

So while Force auras is a true suck, A trained force User should be able to sense smoething not normal with the average person strong in the Force, even if they are not using it, especially someone without control at close range.

If we take the concept of a "voice" further, It appears to me that Masters of either side can "quieten" their voice or change it entirely if they wish due to their control. when they use the Force, it's fair game.

These days, I tend to simply say "somthing seemed not quite right" if the force user is an unknown person IC, or even choose not to notice their ability unless it's used. It seems Force Signatures or Auras is using IC knowledge you should not have.

(On re-reading, what a load of crap I've typed. It's incoherent. That's what I get for typing while talking to the worlds oldest Mozilla user on the phone)

[Silus Xilarian]

I would think in my case with Silus, that a higher level apprentice or a knight, if they were paying attention, could easily figure out that Silus is a force user. His reflexes are razor sharp, and he owes a lot of that to the force. It wouldnt be farfetched to me, that someone really paying attention could sense him sensing his surroundings.

But, im no expert either.

[Tear]

Both ideas are so similiar.

I think both are pretty valid too. The idea that a force user couldnt sense another without the other using the force is probably dead on.

The trick is Most force users who have an understanding of the force use is passively. Walking down a busy street i could imagine a force user drawing on the force to listen, inspect, hightened awareness all doing is passively.

If that was happening it would create a tug on the "web" that is the force and another user who was paying attention could probably pick it out.

If you look at the movies like Marcus said Qui gonn suspected that there was something up with anakin. Probably because he was so strong in the force he was already passively drawing on it (pod races for instance) without realizing he was. Now anakin is a special case since hes pretty much the strongest force user the galaxy has known.

Then if you look at Leia ( i know i spelled that wrong..) who wasnt as strong as her father. She slipped unoticed by both the Emperor and Vader..even Luke who would concievably have the strongest bond with her. Probably because she wasnt drawing on the force in the same way.

It seems the stronger you are in the force the more adapt you are to using it passively. The weaker you are the less your going to use it to catch a ball or something:p

I would think it would be insanely hard for a accomplished force user to not draw on the force when strolling through the streets. Probably why it was so inconcievable to Obi won that a Sith could be controlling the Senate without the Jedi sensing him.

So both theories sort of hold truth. Someone wouldnt notice another force user unless he/she was tugging on the web in some way. At the same time to not use the force in some way would probably take a concious effort.

[imported_Akrabbim]

Actually, in one of th ebeeks, they did figure out a way to test a person. Luke attempted to probe a certain area of Leia's mind, and she automatically threw him out. She didn't even realize she was doing it. When they tried the same trick on Wedge, they could get in without trouble. So, that's a valid test, too. But you had to have physical contact to do it, I believe. So, there was no easy-sensing.

BTW, is this discussion alos applying to people sensing THINGS with the Force? I have a bit of a beef with the way some people sense EVERYTHING that comes near them with the Force. In ESB, Luke got blindsided several times.

[Titus]

Actually, in one of th ebeeks, they did figure out a way to test a person. Luke attempted to probe a certain area of Leia's mind, and she automatically threw him out. She didn't even realize she was doing it. When they tried the same trick on Wedge, they could get in without trouble. So, that's a valid test, too. But you had to have physical contact to do it, I believe. So, there was no easy-sensing.

Luke then tried the same trick on Kyp, and was physically thrown aside by Kyp's knee-jerk reaction.


In ESB, Luke got blindsided several times.

You have to remember that Luke wasn't exactly the most proficient Jedi at the time of ESB.

But yes, you are right, 'sensing' everything around is rather ridiculous. Think of yourself as a computer. You can multi-task, but the more tasks you pile on the slower everything works.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I think if someones using the Force actively, you should be able to sense them - providing you have the training/skill level to do so. Especially darksiders, because they're going to be using powerful emotions.


I think I'll also start testing new apprentices at K.A. with a blood test to make sure they have potential.

A little superfluous, maybe? You'll already have decided, OOC, whether or not the person will be admitted to the group, so RPing it out every time seems kind of... pointless. Unless you want to potluck them, roll a dice or something, but even then its likely that if they want to play a Force user, they'll just go do it somewhere else, if you say they're "failed" the test.

[Moltar]

I think of it like this... all you can feel is a disturbance in the Force... Nothing else.. Not who the person is, or where their alligencies lay. It's more fun to figure it out in the thread, then walk in, suddenly have everyone know your a Jedi, and start wailing on the Sith when he hasn't done anything yet.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by Dasquian Belargic
A little superfluous, maybe? You'll already have decided, OOC, whether or not the person will be admitted to the group, so RPing it out every time seems kind of... pointless. Unless you want to potluck them, roll a dice or something, but even then its likely that if they want to play a Force user, they'll just go do it somewhere else, if you say they're "failed" the test.
Sure it's superflulous. We have an open door policy, whoever wants in gets in, but let me enjoy my RP okay? :p

[Vampyre Dalamar]

Darth Vader seemed to sense people all the time. Sensing the prescence of Obi Wan in the first movie. Also sensing Luke where luke says im endangering the mission. He wasnt using the force at all. Soooo, If not actively using the force and Darth Vader could sense him. Well that would seem to fit into cannon. Unless your going to say that Vader was powerful and the exception. But still was done. So for other people to say they have done it doesnt seem far fetched to me at all. Not trying to slam anyone just making some obserations, about the happening of the movie. o_O But dont worry I smell you Jedi. Is much more offensive in my opinion>_< :x

Feel the love baby lol. :smokin

[Moltar]

Originally posted by Vampyre Dalamar
Darth Vader seemed to sense people all the time. Sensing the prescence of Obi Wan in the first movie. Also sensing Luke where luke says im endangering the mission. He wasnt using the force at all. Soooo, If not actively using the force and Darth Vader could sense him. Well that would seem to fit into cannon. Unless your going to say that Vader was powerful and the exception. But still was done. So for other people to say they have done it doesnt seem far fetched to me at all. Not trying to slam anyone just making some obserations, about the happening of the movie. o_O But dont worry I smell you Jedi. Is much more offensive in my opinion>_< :x

Feel the love baby lol. :smokin

But even Darth Vader and Kenobi's Senses could not tell exactly what they were facing untill they figured it out (Hence Vader talking to Luke at the End of ESB, but not before hand.)

Once again when a person enters a thread, they can't tell who the person is, all they can sense is a disturbance. However once they find out what it is they usually jump into action,

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Luke and Darth Vader at that point had the link of Father and Son, and so I think that this was a special case where people who have a history together or are related in some way would be able to sense each other better? (Obi Wan and Vader - former master and padawan learner.)

So I would Rp that LD and her son Jax would be able to sense each other, if not EXACTLY where each other are...and Pierce would probably be able to pick LD out in the Force fairly easily as well.

[Ka' el Darcverse]

Then what was the point of Yoda hiding on Dagobah near the presence of the Tree? There are plenty of examples, Qui Gon sensing Maul as he approached. With all things of course there should be some reason, hence why we don't use Force Storms here. I think the common sense rule comes into play here.

[Moltar]

Originally posted by Ka' el Darcverse
Then what was the point of Yoda hiding on Dagobah near the presence of the Tree? There are plenty of examples, Qui Gon sensing Maul as he approached. With all things of course there should be some reason, hence why we don't use Force Storms here. I think the common sense rule comes into play here.

I didn't think of that one.>_<

I guess that some cases are open to interpertation.

EDIT:

I think that we aren't talking about those.. More like this.

JEDI: *Uses the Force to Hide himself from band of Sith who now can't see him.*

SITH: *Sees the Jedi Via the Force and throws a rock at him.*

Right?

[Warlock]

But even Darth Vader and Kenobi's Senses could not tell exactly what they were facing untill they figured it out (Hence Vader talking to Luke at the End of ESB, but not before hand.)

As far as I am aware, people don't generally enter threads already knowing who they're going to face. Most of the time its just "so and so senses a jedi nearby" or "so and so can feel a dark presence in the Force", so that's not really a problem.


I think that this was a special case where people who have a history together or are related in some way would be able to sense each other better?

Definetly. They'd be more attuned to one another, having been around each other for more prolonged periods of time, so would have learnt - perhaps even without realising it - to 'read' them.

[Pierce Tondry]

I quote Darth Vader.


I sense something. A presence I've not felt since...


Your concern for them is strong. Especially for... your sister. You have a twin sister.

In RotJ, even though Vader could not pinpoint Luke directly he was still able to sense Luke's thoughts, read his emotions. Luke was his own son, and even though the two hadn't exactly spent a lot of time together, Vader could still feel the familiarity. That's one of the reasons my comparison to a 'voice' works particularly well- even with one's eyes closed, they would still be able to recognize a parent, sibling, friend, child, significant other, etc.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

I've always seen it as this: The Force is a web of energy, with its 'tendrils' flowing like a gentle stream from one thing to another. When taught how to search or look through the Force, a student can begin to see these tendrils when their eyes are closed, or if they look with their mind. The Force flows through everything, so said the great yoda, meaning that these tendrils flow through air, rocks/trees/buildings, and creatures/animals/sentient beings as well. The Force would be able to highlight such objects and sort of 'outline' them. If a person was more force receptive than not, and had the ability to use the Force, I would think that the Force would outline them a bit differently. And if a user is more 'light' or more 'dark', the Force would bend or be corrupted differently as it flowed through a person.

Of course, one couldn't just start up and be like... yeah, i can do that. I"m sure you'd have to be trained in the Force to be able to pick out stuff like that.

Like what was said, Luke had to test for his students by doing that mind thing.

Palpatine, though, I think had the ability to sense and pick out Force users. IN response to Vader - "I have felt him" Palpy - "Strange that I have not", suggests to me that he could, at one time, pick out a Force user.

*shrugs*

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by Moltar
I think that we aren't talking about those.. More like this.

JEDI: *Uses the Force to Hide himself from band of Sith who now can't see him.*

SITH: *Sees the Jedi Via the Force and throws a rock at him.*

Right?
Yeah mostly.

[Figrin D'an]

Like Ka' el said... this is an application of the common sense rulebook. Unless there is some grossly offending incident or series of incidents which prompts examination of this in more detail, it would seem that self-policing is an adequate solution.

[Moltar]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Yeah mostly.

In that case then I think that both are in error.

If someone is hiding in the Force how can they be seen by someone using the Force. It's a Catch 22....


I'll expand on it later... Sleepy, can't stay awake...