Force Skills Informational thread

[Lilaena De'Ville]

For my group, K.A., I'm planning on comprising a list of skill levels in certain abilities. We have an adept who is strong in the illusionary arts, and we wanted to be fair and play by the rules, so I picked Akrabbim's brain and came up with....this:



Illusions, Dark Side

Making a room appear to a person to be completely dark is much easier than creating a perfect, illusionary ladybug. Skill levels all come down to: how complex is the illusion? These guidelines are for illusion specialists. If illusionary arts is not your specialty, this information is still helpful, just tone it down a bit. Use common sense.

Apprentice

Complexity wise, at the end of your apprentice training in the Dark Illusionary arts, you should be able to make one perfect human. Your human will not have a Force signature, so a Jedi after a bit of concentration should be able to see through your clever ruse. You cannot make illusionary sound however. You could make more than one human at a time, but they will not be very believable, as they will not be perfect - they would appear fuzzy, or incomplete, as controlling two or more illusions at the same time demands a great deal of skill.

As an apprentice you will be able to mask your own Force signature a bit while you are creating an illusion, but the more you move around, the weaker the masking is. The Dark Jedi Apprentice will be able to affect those of their own rank with moderate mental powers mortely well. If they have strong mental, not so well, and weak mental, very well.

Knight

At Knight you will be able to make several complex illusions, such as three or four complete, perfect people. Or three or four perfect animals. An advanced Knight near their master trials could block their own Force signature from detection, or create illusions with a Force signature. As a trade off, your other Force skills should slow down a bit while you are maintaining this illusion.

A Knight will also be able to learn how, and implement sound in their illusions. The Dark Jedi Knight will be able to affect those of their own rank with moderate mental powers moderately well. If they have strong mental, not so well, and weak mental, very well.

Master

At Master, it should just continually get bigger and bigger till there's not much of a limit. Illusions can have Force signatures, sound, and even 'touch' the people you are tricking. Tacitile illusions require skill in telekinesis, so if your character is weak in that area, tactile illusions (illusions you can touch and that can touch you) will take a lot of concentration fron you.

As a Master of illusion you will be able to trick a fully trained Jedi, at least for a while, depending on their skills and areas of expertise. The Dark Jedi Master will be able to affect those of their own rank with moderate mental powers moderately well. If they have strong mental, not so well, and weak mental, very well.


These guidelines were composed by Akrabbim, the Jedi Master who specializes in illusions, and agreed upon by Lilaena De'Ville, moderator of sw-fans.net.

I hope to make something similar for other skills, such as telekinesis, energy attacks, mind control, etc etc. Each aimed towards the 'specialist' in the area, to give my people an idea on what is deemed fair for characters who SPECIALIZE in those areas. If it's not your specialty, then you wouldn't be as good as they would be at your level.

My question is, do you think it would be worthwhile posting a thread like that up in OOC, like in the no spam group forum? I'm going to pick Charley's brain for Telekinesis (Anbira) and probably some other people for the other areas.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

[annoying n00b]WHY HASN'T ANYONE RESPONDED HELLOOO[/annoying n00b]

:p sorry, couldn't help it

[ReaperFett]

It sounds like a good idea IMO. Gives RPers a good guideline.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I agree with Fett.

[Navaria Tarkin]

how could this be a bad thing? :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I dunno, call me paranoid!

Still waiting to hear back from Charley about telekinesis. While I'm waiting, I'd like to hear everyone's (Rpers) thoughts on apprentice, knight and Master levels for:

energy attacks/absorption
force sense (would a knight be able to sense a master illusionist standing behind him?)
telepathy/mind control (I think it's funny that everyone innately knows how to talk into other people's minds and read their thoughts)

I tried starting the Force Sense bit yesterday and got all bogged down trying to explain it. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Telekinesis, Dark Side

Making a stone fly across a room is easier than levitating your own body and flying through the air. Telekinetic skill levels all come down to: how many things are you doing, and how big are they? Yoda said 'size matters not,' but Luke still couldn't lift the X-Wing out of the swamp. These guidelines are for telekinetic specialists. If telekinetic arts is not your specialty, this information is still helpful, just tone it down a bit. Use common sense.

Apprentice

The apprentice level Dark Jedi would be able to learn how to 'throw stuff around.' At the end of your apprentice training you will be able to manipulate several small items at once or one larger object. You could manipulate one large object at a time, such as throwing an enemy backwards, and then throwing another enemy backwards (or pulling them forwards).

An apprentice will also be able to jump down from high places, using telekinetic levitation to soften their fall and protect themselves.

Knight

As a knight training with an emphasis in telekinetic arts, you will learn how to smash things with the Force. Before your master trials the Knight will be able to 'explode' rocks by putting intense Force pressure on them, as well as other things. For a Dark Side application you could use this skill to explode heads, or break arms and legs.

The Dark Jedi Knight would be able to move multiple large items at once, such as throwing several men backwards in a fight. The Dark Jedi Knight would also be able to jump to high places, using the Force to levitate his or her body, combined with Force enhanced muscles.

Master

A master, trained specifically with telekinesis as his specialty, will be able to move extremely large objects (i.e. X-Wing, and larger), and he will be able to 'fly.' Flying is achieved by leviating one's own body, and is difficult, to say the least. A master would be the only person able to do this, as you will be concentrating on levitating yourself, as well as doing other things, such as attacking or defending yourself.

These guidelines were composed by Anbira Hicchoru, the Jedi Master who specializes in telekinesis. They wer edited and agreed upon by Lilaena De'Ville, and the moderation staff.edit: I'm copying this thread and posting it in the group mod forum as well.

[Pierce Tondry]

I can handle energy absorption.

[DarthHERA]

telepathy/mind control


Thought-reading is a bit of a pet-peeve of mine.

I dont think a person should be able to trot about in peoples heads willy-nilly unless you are a master, or this is UNIQUE to your character, and even then, it should be done once in a while.

Sensing how people are feeling or moving is one thing, but actually finding out their background, memories, who they ate lunch with etc requires great control and is a great intrusion imo.

Also..speaking across the galaxy I find a bit of a stretch, unless you have a distinct and established connection with the other person. A few established players do this, I know and this is not a jibe at them.


*my two cents*


For a Dark Side application you could use this skill to explode heads


really? :\

[Morgan Evanar]

telepathy/mind control (I think it's funny that everyone innately knows how to talk into other people's minds and read their thoughts) Snerk. Morgan has very limited telepathy with everyone but Rie, and read someone's thoughts? Har. I realize that most RPers do it all too often, but some of us try and play the straight and narrow.

Edit; nevermind. I've had a hellacious day. I don't mean to come off this way, but I can't figure out how to restate it without being sarcastic right now. I know there is a valid point in there. :(

[Pierce Tondry]

No, no, you're right. Thing of it is, telepathy is something of a hallmark of the Jedi. Most newbs and even some with RPing experience think of it as a characteristic to include to make what they do "more Star Warsy".

A lot of people forget that Vader was the Chosen One and Luke was his son. Being able to hear each other's thoughts was made easier because of their family connection and their high natural sensitivity to the Force.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by DarthHERA
telepathy/mind control

Thought-reading is a bit of a pet-peeve of mine.

I dont think a person should be able to trot about in peoples heads willy-nilly unless you are a master, or this is UNIQUE to your character, and even then, it should be done once in a while.



I tend to agree. I wouldn't even allow just any master to be able to probe anyone's thoughts and extract anything they wish. To have that kind of telepathic power, it MUST be a skill focus, IMO. And even then, there are characters that have very high levels of will power, and have specialized abilities to resist mind probing.




Anyway...

If you want recommendations on energy manipulation, my services are available.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Originally posted by Pierce Tondry
I can handle energy absorption.


Originally posted by Figrin D'an
If you want recommendations on energy manipulation, my services are available.

Perhaps we could work together, then?

[Figrin D'an]

Methinks that would be very insightful.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Well post up whatever guidlines you get here and I'll put together the final draft. 'Cause it's my baby. :)

And Morg, when I said "everyone" I meant "all new people." When I was new, I did that too, but now I've evolved LD into a more lopsided individual. She has no telepathy, mind control or resistance to illusions, so you're not alone.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Ryla is exactly the same way... she can recieve emotions, not really thoughts or phrases, but can't send anything. And ilusions are very effective on her. So, even though she can move objects, to some degree, she's much better at combat and lightsaber construction, and her secondary skills are healing/emotions. :)

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

People have such a mix of differing abilities that I think it will be difficult to pigeon-hole all of them.

A guideline is a good idea as long as it remains a guideline and doesnt become 'law'.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

It makes it easier to judge godmoding if you're a moderator. If you have someone who's an apprentice stating that they can see a Master who is disguising or hiding themselves, it's obvious that they shouldn't be able to do that.

Putting these up will make it so there is an easy guideline for RPers to read so they can make the judgement call themselves before they write potentially godmoding behavior.

Anyway, all in all, I started this off just for my group, but any help in the areas already asked is pleaded for. pleeeeeese.

[Pierce Tondry]

Fig and I are working on our end. We'll get back to you when we have a finished draft.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Thanks you two.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Thank you Ryla! I'll be writing up the Dark Jedi side of things using her original guideline. >D
Combat, Light Side

All Jedi begin their training with some sort of combat. Though we have many different levels of Padawans, most of them with experience have not been trained to use the Force while they fight. Even if you are a master swordsman on your own planet, there are still Force-skills that must be used to improve and maintain your fighting skills. Remember, not all Jedi Masters are master-level fighters, and neither are all the Jedi Padawans. When creating your character, remember to balance out your skills.

Apprentice

An Apprentice level training begins with sensing your relationship to the Force and how you can use it to enhance your own movement. Most Padawans have or can develop basic to intermediate hand-to-hand combat skills, including Force-enhanced jumps, short sprints, and sensing attacks. The Lightsaber is also introduced at this level, but should be used with caution and only for training.

Knight

Everything learned as a Padawan is enhanced by the time one reaches the Knight level. Force-enhanced jumps and sprints soon turn into defensive leaps and long-distance running. The Lightsaber cannot be learned quickly; Much study still must be put into the basic forms for attacking and blocking. If your character has a special predisposition for the Lightsaber, consider training not just for the basics but under a specific form:

Form I: A basic form, which younglings begin learning.

Form II: An ancient form used for saber-to-saber duels. As it is not practical in the era of the SW films, it is not taught in the Jedi Order. Count Dooku uses this form, which defeated Obi-Wan and Anakin and stood against Yoda.

Form III: The most defensive form, reflects the philosophy of non-offensiveness. Obi-Wan Kenobi uses this form in AOTC, such as during the battle with Jango Fett. Masters of this form are unbeatable, but they may have trouble overcoming their opponent.

Form IV: The most acrobatic form, used by Qui-Gon
Jinn, Yoda, and Obi-Wan (in TPM). It is characterized by Force-assisted jumps and predictable, flowing saber moves. Yoda is an ultimate master of Form IV, using it to its fullest against Count Dooku.

Form V: A form opposite to Form III, it stresses strength. It requires intensity, and its goal is to overcome the opponent. Anakin Skywalker (and Darth Vader) use this aggressive form. While Form III would deflect blaster fire away from the opponent, a Form V user would deflect the bolt directly to the opponent.

Form VI: A combination of all the forms, it is known as the "diplomat's Form." Most Jedi use this form, but all the Form VI Jedi in the Battle of Geonosis died.

Form VII: The ultimate form, it requires mastery of all other forms, more intensity than Form V. Although a Form VII user may seem calm on the outside, he or she is very powerful inside. Mace Windu and Darth Maul use this form.

Master

If your character's specialty is combat, either hand to hand or Lightsaber, you should be able to hold your own in any sort of fight. At this point, your muscle skills and Force skills will be working in complete unison, and you will probably have learned at least one lightsaber form, if not two. As a Jedi, you will fight with strength of character, and not just power. You may be a sword master, but as a Jedi, you work for peace above all things.

These guidelines were written up by Ryla Relvinian, a Jedi Master who specializes in combat and healing, and agreed upon by the moderating staff.


Healing, Light Side

There are three main facets of any Force-healing ability: Sense, Assess, and Heal. One cannot simply heal without being able to first sense the problem and accurately assess the dangers. Healing is not telepathy, and does not rely on sensing the patient's thoughts, but rather on receiving their emotions and their pain. Often times, true master healers are very rare, and they are sometimes not as powerful in other areas, such as telekinesis and telepathy, for that very reason.

Apprentice

It is not uncommon to happen upon a Padawan with a specific gift towards healing, but, for the most part, most Padawans have only reached, and will only reach, the level of Sense in their healing skills. Sensing, as stated before, relies more upon the detection and reception of certain emotions and states of being than actually hearing someone's thoughts. This is because injuries affect all of the person's being, not just the physical aspect, but also the Force aspect.

Knight

A knight can receive the emotions of others without trying, and can begin to pin-point the problems that lay within. The sharing of emotions eventually draws the healer's Force senses within the patient, forming a tenuous bond used as a Force-probe to detect and begin to examine whatever wound exists. The earlier stages of this training focus more on physical wounds, starting from flesh wounds and moving into internal injuries. Extended periods of healing activity are very strenuous on the healer.

Master

At this level, the Master level healer can heal himself or herself with a moderate level of difficulty, and can assess and treat most common physical wounds in their patients. After many years of study and practice, a Master healer would also be able to sense psychological illnesses, though this is not very common, and should only be attempted with a trained healer. Long periods of physical healing, or moderate stretches of time with psychological healing are very taxing on the master healer, and should be attempted only under the utmost necessity.

These guidelines were written up by Ryla Relvinian, a Jedi Master who specializes in combat and healing, and agreed upon by the moderating staff.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Combat, Dark Side

All Dark Jedi begin their training with some sort of combat. Though we have many different levels of Apprentices, most of them with experience have not been trained to use the Force while they fight. Even if you are a master swordsman on your own planet, there are still Force-skills that must be used to improve and maintain your fighting skills. Remember, not all Dark Jedi Masters are master-level fighters, and neither are all the apprentices. When creating your character, remember to balance out your skills.

Apprentice

An Apprentice level training begins with sensing the Dark Side through your anger. You will also focus on your relationship to the Force and how you can use it to enhance your own movement. Most Apprentices have or can develop basic to intermediate hand-to-hand combat skills, including Force-enhanced jumps, short sprints, and sensing attacks. The Lightsaber is also introduced at this level, but should be used with caution and only for training. Some masters will strenously test their apprentices in the logic that the weak will fall during training, leaving only the strong behind. As an apprentice you should be ready for anything in a combat training session.

Knight

Everything learned as a Apprentice is enhanced by the time one reaches the Knight level. Force-enhanced jumps and sprints soon turn into defensive leaps and long-distance running. The Lightsaber cannot be learned quickly; Much study still must be put into the basic forms for attacking and blocking. If your character has a special predisposition for the Lightsaber, consider training not just for the basics but under a specific form:

Form I: A basic form, which younglings begin learning.

Form II: An ancient form used for saber-to-saber duels. As it is not practical in the era of the SW films, it is not taught in the Jedi Order. Count Dooku uses this form, which defeated Obi-Wan and Anakin and stood against Yoda.

Form III: The most defensive form, reflects the philosophy of non-offensiveness. Obi-Wan Kenobi uses this form in AOTC, such as during the battle with Jango Fett. Masters of this form are unbeatable, but they may have trouble overcoming their opponent.

Form IV: The most acrobatic form, used by Qui-Gon
Jinn, Yoda, and Obi-Wan (in TPM). It is characterized by Force-assisted jumps and predictable, flowing saber moves. Yoda is an ultimate master of Form IV, using it to its fullest against Count Dooku.

Form V: A form opposite to Form III, it stresses strength. It requires intensity, and its goal is to overcome the opponent. Anakin Skywalker (and Darth Vader) use this aggressive form. While Form III would deflect blaster fire away from the opponent, a Form V user would deflect the bolt directly to the opponent.

Form VI: A combination of all the forms, it is known as the "diplomat's Form." Most Jedi use this form, but all the Form VI Jedi in the Battle of Geonosis died.

Form VII: The ultimate form, it requires mastery of all other forms, more intensity than Form V. Although a Form VII user may seem calm on the outside, he or she is very powerful inside. Mace Windu and Darth Maul use this form.

Master

If your character's specialty is combat, either hand to hand or Lightsaber, you should be able to hold your own in any sort of fight. At this point, your muscle skills and Force skills will be working in complete unison, and you will probably have learned at least one lightsaber form, if not two. As a Dark Jedi, you will fight with everything available to you, but most of all your hate. As such, you may be able to defeat Jedi more easily, although you must beware, as Good ultimately finds a sneaky way to defeat Evil. What a kill-joy! For now, enjoy beating the crap out of knights and apprentices, and you'll find you're evenly matched against most if not all Jedi Masters.

These guidelines were written up by Ryla Relvinian, a Jedi Master who specializes in combat and healing, altered for the Dark Side by Lilaena De'Ville, and agreed upon by the moderating staff.


Healing, Dark Side

There are three main facets of any Force-healing ability: Sense, Assess, and Heal. One cannot simply heal without being able to first sense the problem and accurately assess the dangers. Healing is not telepathy, and does not rely on sensing the patient's thoughts, but rather on receiving their emotions and their pain. Often times, true master healers are very rare, and they are sometimes not as powerful in other areas, such as telekinesis and telepathy, for that very reason.

That being said, true healers are also all Jedi, never Dark Jedi. It's a sad, but true fact that Dark Siders are not as adept in the healing arts as are the Jedi. If they were, don't you think that Palpatine would have done something about his face?

Apprentice

It is not uncommon to happen upon a Apprentice with a specific gift towards healing, but, for the most part, most Apprentices have only reached, and will only reach, the level of Sense in their healing skills. Sensing, as stated before, relies more upon the detection and reception of certain emotions and states of being than actually hearing someone's thoughts. This is because injuries affect all of the person's being, not just the physical aspect, but also the Force aspect.

However, once an Apprentice gives into his hate and the Dark Side, his abilty to properly Sense injury goes down, as does his interest in learning how to Heal. No Dark Sider has ever been able to heal him or herself totally, and cannot heal others.

Knight

A knight can receive the emotions of others without trying, and can begin to pin-point the problems that lay within. You cannot heal others, but you can tell them what's wrong with them. Extended periods of 'sensing' activity are very strenuous on the 'healer.'

Master

At this level, the Master level healer can heal himself or herself to a very minor degree with a moderate level of difficulty, and can assess most common physical wounds in their patients/victims. Long periods of physical 'healing,' are very taxing on the master healer, and should be attempted only under the utmost necessity, and will probably not do any good.

These guidelines were written up by Ryla Relvinian, a Jedi Master who specializes in combat and healing, altered for the Dark Side by Lilaena De'Ville, and agreed upon by the moderating staff.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

bump - besides Ryla, because she's been more than helpful already thanks babe! does anyone have an update?

[Pierce Tondry]

Fig has my stuff on energy, but hasn't gotten back to me on his additions. *nudges Fig*

Got a response to the nudge. :)


Energy Manipulation/Absorption:

Warping the Force to create the aberration that is Force-Lightning is recognized as a Master-level only skill, but there are other kinds of energy in existence. Skill levels come down to: what kind of energy are you working with, how much of it are you attempting to control, and how complex a task are you trying to achieve? These guidelines are for energy manipulation specialists. If wielding energy is not your specialty, this information is still helpful, just tone it down a bit. Use common sense.


Apprentice:

The Apprentice-level energy manipulation specialist will understand the basic principles of thermal energy and how to manipulate it. Light Siders will likely learn more defensive aspects of energy manipulation, such as how to siphon energy away from blaster shots to make them less harmful, or how to drain a blaster's energy pack over time. Dark Siders could learn to create, feed, and control a few fireballs at once for short periods of time, or remove small amounts of thermal energy from a person or object. Wielders on both sides will begin to learn how to sense the aura that is the Force, and how it flows into all things. Through this, it may be possible to learn how to manipulate less complex electrical devices (electronic displays, datapad powercells, etc) and cause them to overload.



Knight:

For the energy wielding specialist, understanding thermal energy is but the beginning; utilizing the more chaotic elements of electrical energy is the next step. Jedi Knights refine their capabilities to dissipate blaster bolts more quickly, and can also draw energy from one source into another, shutting down one door's locking mechanism in favor of activating another one. The Dark Jedi Knight can easily cause a non-shielded droid or certain pieces of machinery to explode or be damaged by causing a power surge in the device. Both sides will expand upon their knowledge of thermal energy to enhance what capabilites that had before. Knights may draw on the Force to create small protective shields. Stunning of non-Force users with a non-lethal electrical charge may be learned as well.



Master:

The practiced Master in energy wielding will integrate his knowledge of lesser forms of energy with direct control over the Force itself. Force Lightning (a warping of both the Force and electricity) tends to be common among Dark Side Masters, however energy specialists will outdo their peers vastly in this technique and may also learn to summon small to medium explosive energy blasts. Similarly, a Light Side energy specialist may be extremely adept at dissipating the energy from Force Lightning (or multiple blaster bolts) into his surroundings or deflecting it back at his opponent. They may also learn the crafting of larger Force barriers to block or deflect thrown objects. A Sith energy specialist may adapt his knowledge towards certain forms of alchemy, imbuing Force energy into swords to allow them parity in battle against Jedi lightsabers. An energy specialist will be able to destroy multiple combat droids with a single energy blast, and well as stun lower level Force users. The ability to control thermal energy is refined to such a degree as to allow the specialist to change the physical state of various substances (vaporize/freeze certain liquids, melt/sublime certain solids, etc). If accepted as a skill focus within energy manipulation, a master can develop limited control over electromagnetism, allowing generation of electromagnetic fields and manipulation of certain metals.



It should be noted at this point that the manipulation of energy carries with it both an inherent risk and a cost. The risk, simply put, is that energy is a complex and unstable medium at best and anyone dabbling in it may accidentally lose control of the forces they are attempting to work with, putting themselves and others in mortal danger. The cost is one in bodily vitality- the Jedi who only uses this talent sparingly will outlast the Dark Jedi who whimsically throws fireballs around in battle. Long term effects of heavy usage include decreased physical ability and a shortened life span.



*Drain Life Force: The power to drain the Force from plants and animals to boost the vitality of the wielder is a recognized power in tabletop RolePlay. However, draining the Life Force from another RPer's character can conceivably fall under SWFans.Net rules regarding killing or maiming other characters during roleplays. Therefore, the power Drain Life Force is limited Master-level energy specialists. Also the power can only be used on subjects the wielder is physically touching, and cannot be used to kill a character, only weaken them.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Awesome :)

[Gav Mortis]

I really dislike this Energy Manipulation term, personally, and I've noticed it everywhere lately. Anything you do with the Force is in fact energy manipulation so to say you are specialised in it is a bit redundant and not really specialising at all. I mean there's electronic energy, heat energy, kinetic energy and psychic energy among others which makes the term Energy Manipulation come across as an all-encompasing gift.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

What term would you propose to use instead?

[Gav Mortis]

Telekinesis, pyrokinesis, cryokinesis, electronic manipulation, etc. etc. There's so many variants of energy manipulation and in my book using the Force is nothing more than energy manipulation and to have particular mastery over energy manipulation in general is to have mastery of most Force skills ranging from throwing balls of fire and bolts of lightning to levitating objects and absorbing blaster bolts. This seems somewhat unfair to me when considering those who specialise in things like empathy, telepathy, lightsaber combat and other really specific skills.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

So what would you suggest I retitle the "energy manipulation" section? "Pyrokinesis/electronic manipulation and absorption of rogue energies such as electricity" ? I feel that with Telekinesis being titled separately that such a breakdown of the meaning of "energy manipulation and absorption" is readily apparent. Especially if you read what is included in the breakdown of skills.

Or is this just a general rant and not really have anything to do with the Force Skills informational thread?

[Figrin D'an]

The Energy Manipulation FAQ we've written focuses on three specific things, really... Thermal energy (heat), electrical energy and electromagnetism. (Fission/fusion could fall into this area, but it wasn't addressed for the simple reason that it is an exceedingly rare and difficult gift to control). Everything else falls under different categories. Kinetics follows different mechanisms... psychic gifts like telepathy and telekinesis operate on different principles entirely.

This strikes me more as a semantics concern than anything. If so, we can simply add a description phrase to the introduction.

[Gav Mortis]

It's not so much semantics. I'll bring it down to this: I have Gav specialised in Pyrokinesis and Cryokinesis. He's essentially focused on elemental powers, as it were but according to the bit above, those skills both fall under the Energy Manipulation tag. I've always thought creating fire and ice, creating Force lightning, powering electronical equiptment and draining life forces are vastly different skills and shouldn't fall under the one heading. If no-one else has much of a problem with it then that's fine and I'll roll with it but I thought it best to raise my concern rather than remain silent.

If it turns out that no-one else sees the whole Energy Manipulation thing as too broad a skill then I'll just go ahead and lump it in Gav's skills in place of Pyrokinesis and Cryokinesis.

[Morgan Evanar]

I agree with Gav to a degree. For example, Milivikal specializes in manipulation of sound waves, which behave differently than fire. Could she start a fire? Maybe. It would be very difficult. I imagine it would be difficult for Gav to destroy a speeder with sound, too.

[Figrin D'an]

I guess I really don't see much of an issue here. It's just a some loose guidelines. Branching out, modifying, specializing within the generalized category... that's up the RPer, and as long as it follows our 'common sense' base of rules, that's fine and dandy. Maybe a character focuses so much on manipulating electricity out of a want to have a powerful Force Lightning attack that they neglect the thermal branch entirely and therefore struggle to perform abilities involving heat.


But, whatever... *shrugs*
If there is enough desire to do so, we can scrap it and start over. It doesn't really matter to me.

[Morgan Evanar]

You, stop invalidating my arguements with common sense!

[Pierce Tondry]

I have a couple things to say.

First, the Wizards of the Coast SW: RPG Core rulebook makes no distinction on kinds of energy when it references energy damage. Specifically it classifies weapons such as Boba Fett's flamethrower gauntlet as energy damage, something that can be defended against by the Absorb/Dissipate Energy feat. As this guide is my main reference for RPing and I saw no contradictions to what I was writing, I went ahead with it.

Second, when I wrote the guide I did it with the idea that all the energy being handled could conceivably be used as a power source. Why? Because I see energy manipulation as an exothermic process- whatever the Jedi in question is doing is designed to produce a reaction that directs energy somewhere other than where it is. Fire can be used as fuel, electricity can be used as fuel, and the Force itself can be used as fuel. Figrin added in electromagnetism, which fit my criteria, so I had no problems with it.

Regarding Gav's skills.

First, Cryokinesis isn't exactly the direct result of energy manipulation. It's a byproduct effect- the energy in a place or thing is removed, thus chilling the target.

Second, the Force is at least partly a mystical quantity- it can achieve things along supernatural lines. I consider Sith Magick to be the best example of this: this particular field of study includes hordes of things that are grossly counter to the more strict interpretation of the Force we RPers are placing on it.

Elementalism, for example, covers part of two fields. Dealing with fire and ice is an energy manipulation feat; dealing with air and earth is a telekinetic one. The specialization lies not in the underlying powers, but in the medium (the wielder of the power is so used to working with specific components, he can achieve results with those components that are beyond the norm)

I would have no problem if Gav wanted to reclassify his powers, but I see just as much potential for fun with them as is.

Regarding Milivikal's skills.

In my view, manipulation of sound is more of a telekinetic effect. If she wanted to start a fire, she'd have to hone her abilities to be able to work with friction forces or be acting on an already unstable material.

Edit: I see this post when I open the thread, but it's not displayed anywhere else. :(

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Sometimes that happens, Pierce. *patpat* it'll be okay.

Then perhaps the 'energy manipulation' heading should be sub classified into lightning and things like Force destruction, or the asorbtion of lightning (Yoda) and the drain life force... ?

Gav, if you'd be willing, a little write up on pryokinesis would be helpful as well.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I'd really like to get this up sooner than later. ;)

Things left to do:

Telepathy - light/dark
----subdivisions of telepathy: mind control (mainly dark side)

Force Sense/Detect - light/dark

Force Elementism - light/dark

Sith Magick - Dark Side only

[Pierce Tondry]

I hesitate to lump Sensing and Detection into a single category. There are many different kinds of Force sensing and limited applications for the power.

But that's just my standpoint.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Then please suggest an alternative :) It's just a rudimentary list, off the top of my head. I added "detect" to the title to show that it was using the Force to sense/detect things.

Should it be:

Force Sense
----subdivisions: Detect, ??

[Marcus Telcontar]

Force Elementism - light/dark

I can have a hit on that one.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

mark - can you corroberate with Gav on that one?

[Pierce Tondry]

Well, the problem is that there isn't an easy alternative at hand. For example, here is a list of several possible specializations:

Combat Sense (focus on the targets in a combat situation)
Danger Sense (future personal harm)
Life Detection (detect things they cannot otherwise see, like De'fel)
Life Sense (detect specific person)
Life Web (detect group of a specific race)
Magnify Senses (enhance natural senses)
Merge Senses (with an animal familiar or lesser sapient)
Poison Sense (detect contaminants)
Sense Force (detect the ambient Force in an area)
Sense Force Potential (recognize future Padawans)
Sense Path (user has an idea how balanced towards good/evil they are)
Shift Sense (from normal vision, to infrared, etc.)
Weather Sense (predict upcoming events like storms)

Each of these categories is unique enough to merit possible specialization, and for a given category there can be applications other than my simple description that I have listed. To try and draw up a guide for each specialization leans toward folly, but to try and draw up an overarching guide with simplistic ranges and capabilities doesn't account for the nature of several of my listed possibilities.

That is why I have no alternative suggestion for you- I see the issue as a fairly complex matter.

However, like I said, that is only my standpoint. You may disagree.

Edit: if I were to make a suggestion, I would simply say let common sense guidelines be the rule here rather than delineate boundaries. The type of person who would select Sense as a specialization is unique indeed, and likely not to be badly abusive of the ability.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
mark - can you corroberate with Gav on that one?

Certainly

[Lilaena De'Ville]

For "Sense" I would mean it to be purely general, as to specify entirely would be too hard. Maybe it could be totally skipped.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

*bump* ??