Bush Backs Marriage Amendment

[Jedieb]

In a move to fire up his conservative religous base, Dubya has 'come out' in support of a constitutional amendment defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman.


"The union of a man and a woman is the most enduring human institution, honored and encouraged in all cultures and by every religious faith," he said, adding that the nation must "prevent the meaning of marriage from being changed forever."

Random points why I'm opposed to this:

1. Leave it up to the states. If a state wants to legalize civil unions or marriages between gays then so be it. Getting the Federal government to go out of its way to deny people rights reeks of Jim Crow laws. Especially to those MILLIONS of citizens who happen to be gay. As much sense as it may make to you, I can gaurantee to the vast majority of gay people aren't going to give up on their sexuality just because of an amendment. They're NOT going anywhere.

2. Keep your religous reasons to yourself Mr. President. I don't care what the bible says about heterosexuality or marriage. If your church doesn't want to sanctify a gay marriage, then so be it. But your church has no business deciding which kinds of couples can get tax breaks.

3. Every gay couple in the country could get married tomorrow and it WOULD HAVE NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER ON MY MARRIAGE! Bruce and Adam could tie the knot and move across the street from me. This in no way would result on an "attack" against my marriage. It just means my wife would have 2 more people to swap shopping stories with. 2 more people to gab about the latest episode of Trading Spaces. And 2 more people in the neighborhood would have better fashion sense than me.

4. Passing this amendment will in no way STOP gays from having sex. There's only ONE way to stop people from having sex; LET THEM GET MARRIED! Nothing derails a couple's sex life more effectively than a marriage license and children. Just ask anyone who's married. Idiot conservatives, you're giving gays a 'Get Out of Commitment Free Card'! Lucky gay bastards!

5. Don't tell me marriages are so suppose to result in children. There are plenty of DINKs (Dual Income, No Kids) in this country and the last time I checked their marriage licenses are just as valid as mine. Since DINKs have no kids they have more discretionary income than I do and more sex. SCREW DINKS! I'd like to see a constitutional amendment forcing every married couple to suffer like I do. There's something I could lend my support to.

6. 1 million gay Republicans (yes, there are gay Republicans) voted for Bush in 2000. I wonder how these voters will cast their ballots this year? To a good portion of them I say ; "Welcome to the Democratic Party!"

7. I feel sorry for the prominent lesbian relatives of famous Republicans. The late Sony Bono's daughter, Newt Gingrich's sister, and Dick Cheney's daughter. Damn, can't these Republicans keep their own families 'straight'?

Wife's yelling at me to get out off the net and help feed the children. Again, lucky gay bastards!

[Figrin D'an]

:lol


I think I burst my spleen!

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Jedieb
6. 1 million gay Republicans (yes, there are gay Republicans) voted for Bush in 2000. I wonder how these voters will cast their ballots this year? To a good portion of them I say ; "Welcome to the Democratic Party!"

Last I heard, Kerry was anti gay marriage too but supportive of civil unions.

[Ryan Pode]

Kerry, while non-pro gay marriage, is against banning it.

[Charley]

I won't support it. While I'm against recognizing gay marriage, I'm also against a constitutional amendment defining the sanctity of it.

Problem is, the government needs to be kicked out of the marriage business. Couples should be granted civil union status by the government, no more and no less. Whether they want to call it a marriage is up to them and/or their religion.

[imported_Eve]

Really, why do we need marriage anyway, except for financial reasons? Does more harm than good if you ask me. But you're not...

Anyway, I agree with Jedieb.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Originally posted by Eve
Really, why do we need marriage anyway, except for financial reasons? Does more harm than good if you ask me.

Now that's an interesting stance. Why do you think marriage is bad?

[Dae Jinn]

Because, Wei, half the time people end up divorced. :lol

[Jedieb]

Problem is, the government needs to be kicked out of the marriage business. Couples should be granted civil union status by the government, no more and no less. Whether they want to call it a marriage is up to them and/or their religion.
There's a great summary of what I'm getting at. :thumbup


Really, why do we need marriage anyway, except for financial reasons? Does more harm than good if you ask me. But you're not...


Damnit, someone's going to make me defend marriage. ^_^;

Nothing is more important and fundamental in my life than my marriage. Everything I am is grounded in my marriage. My wife, my 3 kids, everything revolves around them. My wife and I work for the kids. If not for them we could spend a few weeks in Europe every summer, drive better cars, wear better clothes, etc. But for us, that would be an empty existance.

But that's ME. Marriage isn't for everybody. Marriage, like most things of value, requires commitment and work. It's not suppose to be easy. Most people enter into it too young or for the wrong reason. (THE LINE TURNED BLUE!) My sister is divorced and a single Mom. She's on good terms with her ex and he's very involved with their daughter. But thanks to my IDIOT ex-brother-in-law she wary of marriage and may never tie the knot again. Children are better off being raised in a 2 parent home. If they're happily married that's a plus. It's not that single mothers are evil or kidding themselves. It's just logistics. Kids are demanding and having that second parent there makes the job so much easier. Occasionally, my wife loses it and I actually have to do something. On her own.... well, my wife probably could do as well without me. I live in constant fear that she'll realized this and that's the end of my free ride. But I digress, kids deserve families. LOVING families, regardless of their gender.

People should be free to define their relationships on their own. We didn't have a church wedding because we were afraid that at some point I would burst into flames. It would have been great theater, but the reception would have been ruined. We had a beautiful ceremony by a river in blistering 95 degree Tampa heat. My LTC from my JAG unit performed the ceremony and no one smirked when my wife walked down the aisle in white. (Man, if she reads that my <smallfont color={hovercolor}>-Censored-</smallfont> is grass.) Again, don't let anyone tell you what your marriage should be. Except for your spouse, they should have some say in the matter.

Alright, that's enough, I'm feeling dirty. Time to put an Arnold DVD and watch some people die. :smokin

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL Jedieb this is great.
Seriously about this issue, I think it is stupid and it won't get any where, it won't get 2/3 in Congress so that will end that. Really this is a political move by Bush because he is down in the polls.

[Phantom]

4. Passing this amendment will in no way STOP gays from having sex. There's only ONE way to stop people from having sex; LET THEM GET MARRIED! Nothing derails a couple's sex life more effectively than a marriage license and children. Just ask anyone who's married. Idiot conservatives, you're giving gays a 'Get Out of Commitment Free Card'! Lucky gay bastards!

lmao! that was pretty good.

I would have to agree with Charley.

Even though I would be considered a conservative by most people and I wholeheartedly do not agree with gay marriages or just gays in general ( No I'm not homophobic, HA beat you to it. ) I will still fight for their rights. Because after theirs are gone whats to say we the 'straight people' aren't next on the list? and I'll be damned if I ever let the <smallfont color={hovercolor}>-Censored-</smallfont>ing government take my rights away, much blood will be spilled before that ever happens, mine or otherwise. Besides the government should have no control or say so over who gets a civil union/Marriage at all, they have absolutely no business in doing so.


Idiot conservatives

Bah ... I won't get into that. :D

wow I picked an interesting thread to come back too. lol.

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Really this is a political move by Bush because he is down in the polls.
I can see it as a wise move. If you set your stall out, those who agree will side with you possibly, those who disagree may not have a side. To side with Kerry could simply mean the same thing will happen, just in the future.

[Jedieb]

Bush is just trying to firm up his base. But I doubt this is going to sit well with many independents and swing voters. I just don't think many of them are going to support amending the Constitution over this issue.

[Pierce Tondry]

We should maybe clean up the language a bit, guys? Opinions regardless, the board is still PG-13.

I like the idea of marriage myself. It's a kind of ceremonial tradition celebrating union, regardless of whether the bride and groom are interchangable, regardless of what religious connotations may exist, and regardless of how many toasters you end up getting. I wouldn't go for a huge, fancy wedding, but something modestly elegant might be nice. I'd have to consult with my bride on that, though. It is a ceremony of union, after all.

I think there's no real point in legislating marriage. The government needs to keep its nose out of interpersonal matters such as this one.

[Jedieb]

I wouldn't go for a huge, fancy wedding, but something modestly elegant might be nice. I'd have to consult with my bride on that, though. It is a ceremony of union, after all.
Wait a minute, you think that as a man you'll actually have a say in what your wedding will look like? Boy, it's always easy to spot the single ones. ;)

[Pierce Tondry]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Wait a minute, you think that as a man you'll actually have a say in what your wedding will look like? Boy, it's always easy to spot the single ones.

And easy to spot the weak-willed suckers, too. ;)

[Jedieb]

And easy to spot the weak-willed suckers, too.
:lol
Ah, to be single and strong again. But your time will come! You will one day suffer as I do! YOU TOO SHALL FALL!!>D

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Jedieb
:lol
Ah, to be single and strong again. But your time will come! You will one day suffer as I do! YOU TOO SHALL FALL!!>D
Pfft, not likely :D

[Jedieb]

Pfft, not likely Date not, fall not. COWARD! :)

[Darth Viscera]

you think they have it bad in the united states, in soviet maryland gay marriages are mandatory :(

[Jedi Master Carr]

I have never heard of that. Only Vermont and Hawaii have any kind of laws about Gay Marriage and I think it is they allow Civil Unions.

[Commander Zemil Vymes]

Originally posted by Jedieb
:lol
Ah, to be single and strong again. But your time will come! You will one day suffer as I do! YOU TOO SHALL FALL!!>D


"Hey bitch, lets elope, and can you go by the station beforehand and pick up a sixer of PBR?"

When this line works, I will no longer be single. Until then, none are worthy for my company.

[Darth Viscera]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
I have never heard of that. Only Vermont and Hawaii have any kind of laws about Gay Marriage and I think it is they allow Civil Unions.

it gets worse! homosexuals have access to preferential parking at the front of the lot. all the best parking spots are marked "gay and lesbian parking only" :(

[imported_Akrabbim]

I know no one is going to agree with me here, but I'm all for the amendment. I think the sanctity of marriage should be protected.

And, as for the comment that the government should stay out of the whole issue, that just doesn't hold water. No matter what they say, they're involved. If they allow gay marriages, they're making the same sort of statement as NOT allowing them. Seeing as the government is involved in declaring gay marriages legal or not, either way they decide is involved in the whole issue.

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Date not, fall not. COWARD! :)
Youre just jealous noone likes me ;)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Wait a minute, you think that as a man you'll actually have a say in what your wedding will look like? Boy, it's always easy to spot the single ones. ;)

:lol

I'm planning my wedding right now and I have to say that my fiance *does* indeed have a say in what the wedding looks like.

Wait, who am I kidding? I picked the colors, I picked my dress and the bridesmaid dresses...and that sets the tone for what it'll look like.

We did agree on the type of wedding, number of people, general theme and he gets to pick what he wears of course (as long as I get to have my say on it too :p).

Yeah, Jedieb, you're right. But then, do men really care, as long as the bride's happy?

[ReaperFett]

Depends. The bride might be into some bad things :)

[Wei Wu Wei]

Men care as much about the honeymoon as women care about the wedding.

I got that from the BSU intern here at my college. And as far as I can tell, it's true. I think most guys care more about the night after the wedding than the wedding itself. For obvious reasons.

[Charley]

Originally posted by Akrabbim
I know no one is going to agree with me here, but I'm all for the amendment. I think the sanctity of marriage should be protected.

And, as for the comment that the government should stay out of the whole issue, that just doesn't hold water. No matter what they say, they're involved. If they allow gay marriages, they're making the same sort of statement as NOT allowing them. Seeing as the government is involved in declaring gay marriages legal or not, either way they decide is involved in the whole issue.

You've missed the point. I don't want them acknowledging ANY marriages, be it heterosexual, homosexual, or marrying a robot. I don't care. Its not their business to do so. The only reason they need to know in the first place is to know where to mail our bills, what tax rebates we may or may not get, and other legalese that is best suited to granting a civil union certificate, instead of being so pretentious as to stick their fingers in pies that don't belong to them.

I'm certainly not pro gay marriage. I'm against it in the same way I'm against heterosexual marriage. Marriage needs to be something done in a religious or similar ceremonial context only. They're both personal choiced to be made. Do I personally agree with homosexuality? Absolutely not. Am I going to try and make it illegal for someone to practice it? Absolutely not. Personal freedom has to be upheld.

[JediBoricua]

:lol

Jedieb I am copying your list and mailing it to my contacts! I laughed so hard I had to close my office door.

[Pierce Tondry]

Originally posted by Akrabbim
I know no one is going to agree with me here, but I'm all for the amendment. I think the sanctity of marriage should be protected.

And, as for the comment that the government should stay out of the whole issue, that just doesn't hold water. No matter what they say, they're involved. If they allow gay marriages, they're making the same sort of statement as NOT allowing them. Seeing as the government is involved in declaring gay marriages legal or not, either way they decide is involved in the whole issue.

I don't know about you, but I'd really like to see Constitutional Amendments stick to items related to governance, not flash-in-the-pan issues that no one will care about 30 years down the line. They tried that with Prohibition and hey- it failed. Miserably.

You hear that, government? You tried mixing religion with bureacracy. It didn't WORK. Stay out of it, and society will create its own fix.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah Prohabition was a massive failure and they had to put an ammendment in just to get bring alchol back.

[imported_Eve]

Gay is the next line of discrimination. It used to be black people, now it's gay, next it will be genetics.

We were stupid enough at one point in history to think that the color of someone's skin actually made them lesser. Well some people are still stupid in this respect.

Now its over whether you love man or woman.

Gay is NOT a matter for discussion. It IS. To say that you agree or disagree with it is complete arrogance. It isn't for you to agree or disagree over like you would the color of your shirt.

I thought we were evolving; learning from our past mistakes. Really, gay marriage doesn't affect you if you're hetero. If you're worried their gay ways will wash on you and infect you...

If a gay man walks into your home and starts having gay sex with another man in front of your children, there are laws for harrassment and indecent exposure (which also work for heteros too). But really, is this what you think will happen? Has this happened to you already? Cause gay isn't new, and I don't think this is the gay man's goal.

Think of it this way:
+ quota systems for being gay
+ scholarships for being gay
+ gov't programs (monetary supplements) for being gay
+ hate crimes - whoops we have these already

We have these for racial minorities all because we thought the color of their skin was horrible. Next we'll have them for sexual preference minorities - once we learn how stupid we were to keep them down... AGAIN. These things promote discrimination, IMO.

You keep being arrogant about this all, we can look forward to this when our children grow up. Get off your judging high horse and learn from past human mistakes (which we all agree were idiotic) and we get closer to peace with each other.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Thank you, Eve! Very well said :)

[Darth Viscera]

Hear hear!

gotta :love that eve

[Jedieb]

You go Eve! :thumbup


Yeah, Jedieb, you're right. But then, do men really care, as long as the bride's happy?
No, we don't care. All we care about is SILENCE! If she's happy she quiet! My main responsibility for our wedding was picking what kind of beer would be available for my family and fraternity brothers. Plenty of Sunday morning hangovers showed I did an adequate job. And as for the honeymoon;
"Honey, I've got tons of brochures to look over for our honeymoon! When do you want to go over them?"
"Uhhh..., do they all have beds?"
"Well, yes."
"Pick whatever you want."
:smokin

[JMK]

Guys don't care one bit about the wedding itself. IMO we just want to the whole thing to be over and done with so we can go on vacation. :)

[imported_Eve]

But during the ceremony don't you appreciate it? Men cry when they see their bride's walk down the isle.

YOU CARE! ADMIT IT!

[Pierce Tondry]

OKAY I ADMIT IT JUST STOP INTERROGATING ME AHHHH

*hangs head* I'm a sucker for a good, mushy moment.

[Jedieb]

YOU CARE! ADMIT IT!
:lol
Yes, she was a site to behold as she walked down the aisle. I tried to freeze the image in my mind so it would always be with me. And what was my wife thinking when she saw me waiting for her at the end of the aisle?
"I can't believe he forgot to shave!"

I should have jumped in that river and started swimming. SWIMMING TO SWEET BLESSED FREEDOM!

[Telan Desaria]

Many people know that despite being the board;s raving egolistical militaristic socio-imperialist megalomaniac, I am also gay. Aside from being the ranting German aristocrat that I once was, I am now an American.

I loved to America because it was lauded as the land of the free right after my family had banished me from my Fatherland and Heimat for being a homosexual. So mmuch for that idea.

Many know I think that war is wonderful, glory the greatest gift to man, and honour the most laudable goal in existence, but I also do not believe in civil war. I say that it is okay to conquer a country, but the conquered must be treated as well as the conquerors.

I have never claimed to be scholar of the law, but tell me this: how can a country that is illegal in its foundations, having rebelled against a legitmate government, and basing its entire history and future on freedom and liberty make any law of the sort that restricts the personal rights of those who would sacrifice their lives for that very country? It simply seems hypocritical.

I can render no opinion on Herr Bush since I did not vote for him. I can say, as an Amerikan citizen, and young gay man, that I detest any form of legislature that thinks itself mighty enough to impose its will on its ruled masses. Democracy and autocracy do no mix: America should really stop trying.

[Jedieb]

Many people know that despite being the board;s raving egolistical militaristic socio-imperialist megalomaniac, I am also gay.
Did you lift that from an unauthorized J. Edgar Hoover biography? :evil

[Darth Viscera]

Matt is FAR more flamboyantly eccentric than J. Edgar Hoover, I think. It's very odd that for once, his opinions conform with the mainstream of swfans. And by mainstream, I mean Eve. mmm, Eve. :love

[Charley]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Did you lift that from an unauthorized J. Edgar Hoover biography? :evil

Otto von Bismarck + Liberace = Telan

At least, thats what my bizarro math suggests :huh

[Jedieb]

Otto von Bismarck + Liberace = Telan
:lol

[AmazonBabe]

Guys don't care one bit about the wedding itself. IMO we just want to the whole thing to be over and done with so we can go on vacation. :)

Funny thing is that is EXACTLY what my husband said. :lol


But during the ceremony don't you appreciate it? Men cry when they see their bride's walk down the isle.

YOU CARE! ADMIT IT!

He did that too.

As for...


Wait a minute, you think that as a man you'll actually have a say in what your wedding will look like? Boy, it's always easy to spot the single ones. ;)

I let him have his say. I mean, how many wives come home from work to find their hubby on the computer playing Call of Duty, go cook dinner for him, and then join him for a round of multiplayer gaming? :p


As for this topic... I seem to remember in another thread in here that we were saying there should be seperation of religion and state? Anyone? So Charley's idea goes along these lines (if I read them correctly).

[Charley]

Wait...you cook?

[AmazonBabe]

Yes, I cook... :rolleyes

*Takes out new wok and introduces it to his head* :p

[Charley]

I'll believe it when I see it :mneh

[Telan Desaria]

Bismarck + Liberace???

Nyeh. I can live with that.

[ReaperFett]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/03/02/MNGNM5C3B31.DTL

Schwarzenegger says I'll be back











....ing gay marriage if that is what the people want :)


And in related news:

http://sfgate.com/chronicle/pictures/2004/02/15/ba_rally1501.jpg
"An opponent of same-sex marriage, Mr. Tree, wants to get hitched and put down roots."





I'm sure the church would be willing to branch out into that area.











Just think, the first relationship where "doggy style" involves the guy cocking his leg and going toilet.

[Figrin D'an]

I think you just topped even yourself in the bad pun department with that post, Fett. :p

[Telan Desaria]

I agree all too much. You should leaf it alone.


*hahahahahahaha. Get it - - -Leaf?????