NFL Offseason

[JMK]

Ok folks, here's the thread to discuss the moves, or non-moves made by the 32 teams during this off season.

Of course, I'm going to start it off and talk about my beloved Dolphins. Finally showing the will to replace Fiedler and/or Griese, the Fish have apparently finalised a deal which would send a 2005 2nd round pick to Philly for A.J. Feely. I'm happy about the move because anyone is better than the 2 scrubs we have taking snaps right now. Apparently the Dolphins didn't want to wait around for Ramsey or Henson, nor did they want to pay too high a price. They've given the green light for Fiedler to talk to other teams which couldn't make me happier. Even with Feely I still think the Dolphins will try to get another QB and totally revamp their offense. Of course no trades can be officially announced until March 2nd, so this is all still heresay, but we can still talk about it nonetheless. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well it make sense. Nobody knows what is going to happen with Ramsey. Henson has problems involving contract, the price for him is fine, but there is a major problems with the contract which won't be easy to work out.

[Figrin D'an]

Drew Hensen has really turned the QB draft situation on it's head. Supposedly, there are 5 or 6 teams that are very interested in Henson, enough so to potentially make a move before Houston loses his draft rights and he heads back into the draft pool.

Beyond that, the only major move so far is Brunell to the Redskins.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I still think Warner will not be a Ram either. I can't see them keeping him it would just hurt the team next season. No clue where Henson, will go, now Miami has dropped out I would think Dallas would be the next team after him, I know Buffalo and Kansas City are both interested as well.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Is Denver nuts

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1742003

As a Chiefs fan I hope they do this deal. Bailey is overrated, and I love not to see Portis twice a year :p

[Figrin D'an]

The Broncos are insane if they do that deal. Portis is one of the best young running backs in the league. Who would replace him? Quentin Griffin? That's laughable.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know they say they are high on sure he is an okay back but he is too small he would never survive a whole season. Maybe this is more Washington trying to do this deal. I am sure Gibbs wants a good back. really he should just go sign Corey Dillon he is better than anything they got.

[JMK]

I guess the thin mountain air is getting to them this time of year.

[jjwr]

Don't forget the string of 1,000 rushers Denver parades through their, if theres one ething they do its run the ball. I wouldn't be suprised for them to trade Portis and have a 1,400 yard back next year.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well unless they keep Mike Anderson who had a 1000 yards two years ago. He might do it. But Griffin is too small he weighs barely 200 he would never make a full season.

[Jedi Master Carr]

So I guess this deal is going to happen

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1742919

It still makes no sense to me Denver has cap problems know by doing this trade they will have to either trade Al Wilson who they franchised or release a bunch of players. I think this is as a bad decision although as a Chief fan I am happy they should be able to dominate the division next year :p

[Jedieb]

The Bucs and Cowboys are in negotiations to trade MeShauwn for Joey Galloway. That's a big win for the Bucs. They need some speed at WR and there's no way MeShauwn could ever suit up for them again.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Jedieb
The Bucs and Cowboys are in negotiations to trade MeShauwn for Joey Galloway. That's a big win for the Bucs. They need some speed at WR and there's no way MeShauwn could ever suit up for them again.


good lord... I'd take Galloway over Johnson any day.

There must be some seriously wacky weed going around NFL front offices. That's the only way to explain some of these trades.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL yeah that is what I would say. I still can't believe the Denver deal that one if it happens is going to make Gibbs look like a genius.

[JMK]

I guess if Washington pulls in Brunell and now is just about to reel in Portis, Dallas being their bitter and hated rivals have to do something to counter that move. Although it won't help their team at all, Meshawn may take some spotlight away from the 'skins.

Just putting that out there. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah you know that is true. Really Dallas needs a Qb in the worst way, they should try to get Warner from the Rams, I can't see him staying there now.

[jjwr]

The Dallas move isn't too bad, more of a lateral shift than anything else, the Cowboys get a big posession receiver to compliment Bryant and Glenn and the Bucs get rid of a headache and have someone to play next to Mccardell.

I wouldn't say the Dallas deal will take any thunder away from the Skins though. Going from Galloway to Keyshawn isn't a big deal but basically stealing one of the best RB's in the NFL is huge....I still can't believe Denver is trading him, regardless of how good their O-Line is.

Garcia and Warner may be out there, some solid QB's on the market, and theres still the Henson factor to consider.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Ramsey will probably be out there too, although I don't think they will trade him to Dallas. About Portis I am wondering if they figure they can't resign him later on. I hear he wants Priest Holmes type numbers and they might see that as too high. Still it will be great for Kansas City the Chiefs should win that division again next year.

[Ryan Pode]

Ravens franchise McAlister, which doesn't surprise me too much. Now all they need to do is resign AD and some of the O-line.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Ravens franchise McAlister, which doesn't surprise me too much. Now all they need to do is resign AD and some of the O-line.


And hope the charges against Jamal Lewis get knocked down.

[Ryan Pode]

I'm a bit shocked. While, it would hurt me greviously to see him locked up, Chester Taylor is just as powerful and Musa Smith is exactly like Jamal.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
I'm a bit shocked. While, it would hurt me greviously to see him locked up, Chester Taylor is just as powerful and Musa Smith is exactly like Jamal.

Yeah, because 2000 yard rushers are a dime-a-dozen... :rolleyes

[Ryan Pode]

Meh, 40% of all 2000+ yard rushers are criminals... then.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL what is about Ravens and geting indicted :p Just kiding still this is serious, even if he gets out of it he will be suspended by the NFL for sure.

[jjwr]

Geez, the Ravens could be in trouble next year, even with a 2,000 yard rusher their offense was pretty awefull, take him out of the equation and they're just about SOL.

With the over abundance of cap space I could see them maybe going after a RB like Staley and paying to bring in Owens to try and make up for the lack fo Lewis.

[Ryan Pode]

Isn't there like a statute on this. Its been like 4 years. I don't see it amount to much. But not only will this totally change draft day, it'll probably change our off-season moves. And we were gonna pick TO up anyways, didn'tya hear Ray at the probowl?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Who knows I think statute of limitations is usally 5 years on minor offenses so they are in the ball park. Not sure what will come out of this it depends on the evidence really. Also he may not get suspended as this happened back in 2001 and you have to wonder if the this is what the NFL suspended for.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Anybody see that Owens is stuck with the 49ers? He had to void his contract a few days ago it never arrived at the NFL office. His agent is saying it got lost in the mail, man what a laugh. I am sure the Niners will try to trade the bum they don't want him to begin with.

[Figrin D'an]

He was just dumb and missed the deadline. The same thing happened to Dennis Northcutt, supposedly.

Oh well. Sucks for him.

[jjwr]

It actually works out pretty good for the 49ers, they were going to dump him anyways so this way they'll get a draft pick in return.

Now is only the Ravens has a 1st rd pick....wait the Pats have theirs :)

It sounds bad but I was cheering for the Ravens to lose this year so the pick would be higher, can't believe some of the games they pulled out....oh well :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Some team will probably make a trade with them. I think the niners will find a way to get rid of him :p

[Ryan Pode]

Yes. But in exchange for our first round pick we got Terrell Suggs. Pending Jamal Lewis's situation, I could see the Ravens looking at TO.

[Jedi Master Carr]

They don't have a first round pick which will prevent them from getting him.

[Ryan Pode]

Perhaps.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I say the Eagles get him. He seems to want to go there and the Eagles despertly need a wideout.

[Ryan Pode]

WHAT NOW?!?!? We got TO for a 2nd round pick!!! BAHAHAHA!

[Jedieb]

Please, oh please let TO act like a putz next year. I'd give anything to see Ray Lewis put him in his place. TO's going into a clubhouse where he'll NEVER be 'Da Man'. I hope it crushes his ego!

[Figrin D'an]

I wouldn't mind hearing at some point next season that Owens had gotten slapped around by Ray Lewis for being a jackass.


Honestly... if Owens wasn't happy with a pretty good QB in Jeff Garcia, he's really going to have issues with a young and still developing Kyle Boller.

[jjwr]

TO for a 2nd round pick, not what I would call a steal, he was going to get signed regardless and that way the Niners got something in return.

TO and Lewis on the same team, that team is going to have so much hot air coming out of it they could fill a Air Baloon!

The Eagles snagging Kearse was a good pickup, that division is looking better and better.

Meshawn going to Dallas may actually be a good pickup as well, if anyone can get him to shut up and play it will be Parcells and he can actually help that team as he's a decent possession receiver.

Sadly the Pats lost Ted Washington to the Raiders. He wanted one last payday before his career ended, can't blame the guy, just wish he would have stayed and gotten his 2nd ring with the Pats :)

[Ryan Pode]

T.O will learn his place quickly. Between Brian Billick and Ray Lewis, he will.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Why in the world did he go to the Raiders??? They aren't going anywhere but to the retirenment home. And I agree with you guys about TO I sure didn't want him in KC he wouldn't have gelled with Gonzalez and Holmes at all.

[JMK]

T.O will learn his place quickly. Between Brian Billick and Ray Lewis, he will.
I hope for Ravens' fans sake he learns.
But my feeling is that T.O. learns from only one person: T.O.
He only gels with one person: T.O.
I hope Lewis gets in his head though.

[jjwr]

Why in the world did he go to the Raiders??? They aren't going anywhere but to the retirenment home. And I agree with you guys about TO I sure didn't want him in KC he wouldn't have gelled with Gonzalez and Holmes at all.

The $4 Million Signing bonus was the reason, he wanted one last big paycheck before he was done and he got it. He will help them this year but its not like the team is going to contend.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know the offense is a huge mess they will probably have no offensive line. Two guys are retiring one might be out for the year for surgery and the other two are FA and have no plans on returning. Plus they are losing their RB they have two aging WR (one who should retire) and Gannon isn't getting any younger either, man that team is a mess. Really they should cut all the old guys and just rebuild but Davis is a moron.

[jjwr]

Yup they should have, cut like crazy this year and aim for next year but they have always been a team to bring on aging players.

The big questions is the draft, they've only got Jerry Porter at WR and Gannon, Rice & Brown won't be around after this year, so will they take the young WR or the Manning/Big Ben gamble, let him learn this year and start next.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think Manning will be gone before Oakland picks, I think Arizona has the pick before and they will pick Manning. Of course being a Chiefs fan I hope their franchise rots :p The Chiefs should dominate that division next year. The Chargers stuck playing Marty Ball. The Raiders and aging awful team and Denver with no Portis and Plummer will begin throwing INTs again. Still if the Chiefs don't improve defensively they will just will 11-13 games again and still not make it to the SB.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Anybody hear about the 5 High schoolers go in the draft? I heard that report on ESPN. They say none of them are in the top 50 high schoolers, man they are fools, they won't even get drafted.

[jjwr]

I saw that, a few RB's, a few defensive Lineman, a CB and a Quarterback. I don't see how a QB could think they would even get drafted, so many college QB's go undrafted and they've played for four more years.

Stupid kids, this isn't the NBA, even if they do get drafted(which will be low) they won't get paid a lot and won't get the development they would get in College.

I could see Manning there for the Raiders, there has been a lot of talk about Green taking Fitzgerald, who knows though, so much about the draft is still up in the air.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally Green said he wanted Manning I think there were rumors about San Diego taking him which is why they said Fitzgerald to Arizona. Actually I don't see the point of SD drafting another QB. They have drafted two now and if they draft another they are basically saying they messed up two times now, they be better off persuing a QB in FA.

[Jedieb]

Phllly may challenge the TO trade to Baltimore. A Philly paper is reporting that the Eagles had worked out a trade with SF and had even begun negotiating a contract with Owens including a $10M signing bonus. I haven't heard of the Ravens getting any contract with TO done yet. Who knows if anything will come of it but it'll be interesting to see if the league steps in.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That could be a huge mess there.

[Jedi Master Carr]

This was a messy trade and FA weekend, the Galloway-Keyshawn trade fell apart today. And Winfield rejected a deal with the Jets and signed with the Vikings (I bet the jets aren't happy) so far its been a crazy offseason.

[Jedi Master Carr]

And what about the Bears? First they overspend on Thomas Jones (who hasn't done anything in like 4 years) and now they overspend on Tait. He was the worst OL on the Chiefs (the other 4 are way better and any scout will tell you that). They gave him the highest bonus for a Tackle ever. The Chiefs can match the offer but I don't see them doing it for that much money. It looks between overspending on Kordell, Tait and Jones the Bears are going to be cellar dwellers for some time.

[Ryan Pode]

Didn't they release Kordell?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah they did but that was still a terrible move they still owe him money. Oh and bad news for you Owens says he doesn't want to play for the Ravens and wants to go to the Eagles he is going to file a grievence with the NFL heck he sounds like he might hold out if he doesn't get his way.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1752478

[Ryan Pode]

Yes, well, Philly is happy they don't have him either. He'll play for the Ravens or he won't play at all.

[Jedi Master Carr]

If he holds out that would be bad the Ravens would be forced to trade him or cut him. Honestly this his agent's fault if he had signed the papers he would have been in Philadelphia by now.

[Ryan Pode]

Maybe. Philly didn't seem to aggressive to want to pay him as much as he wanted. And if he holds out, let him hold out and waste away.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah and waste the money they spent on him. I think he would have went to the Eagles he seemed to want to go there it was his first choice. And he was even willing to take a paycut to go there.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Hey jjwr what is the deal with Law
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2004/02/27/patriots_in_trouble_with_law/

Just curious is he going to get cut? I know my chiefs need a corner we can take him :p Seriously it looks like KC will probably be signing Troy Vincent who I guess is still a good corner although a little old.

[jjwr]

At his point I don't think TO will ever be playing with the Ravens, if he doesn't take the physical then can the trade go through official?

As for Ty Law....

Geez.....great Corner Back, no denying that but the guy wants the moon. At 30 he's not super old and is still at the top of the league as far as Corners go. The problem is that he wants to be paid as much as Champ Bailey is, and get a similar signing bonus.

He feels that as a top corner he should be paid like one. Problem is the Pats overpaid for him the past 5 years when he was the top paid Corner in the league, and now instead of helping the team out he wants to keep up that high salary.

He has already said he won't budge from 9.5 Millionish payroll for this year, odds are the Pats will play him at that price and cut him after this year is done.

With Poole and the young corners they have along with the plethora of picks they should trade him, and let his new team rework his contract.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I don't think the Chiefs will trade for him, part of it is because of the low draft pick we got second we being putting a lot of our cap on him. I just taken Vincent, he is still a good corner and has a few good years left. About Owens this thing is a mess the Player association is getting into it as well. I guess we will see how it works out.

[JMK]

With a headcase like T.O., was this going to go any other way?

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL I know if it was my team I wouldn't want the guy, for that reason alone.

[Ryan Pode]

Well if he doesn't take the physical (and if he didn't take it, it be all over the web by now) he will be on holdout. He just wants to get that mega-signing bonus Philly was offering, and once Ozzie Newsome redraws the contract, I'm sure that T.O will be happy.

[jjwr]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head, the guy wants his money, the signing bonus was the big thing and if the Ravens can do similar I'm sure he will be much happier there.

Course the fact that the Ravens had the lowest total passing yards in the NFL last year might have had something to do with it.....

As for Law again, the Pats should have offered him for Portis, they would have gotten their RB and could have drafted more corners :)

[Ryan Pode]

Ozzie Newsome isn't the best GM in the league for nothing. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am glad I am not 49er fan any more the team sure seems a long way from the days of Joe Montana and Steve Young

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=kreidler_mark&id=1755151

This York guy is a moron I bet the niners will win 4 or 5 games at the most considering they got idiot Erikson as their head coach.

[JMK]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/sports/news/0309dolphins.html

The Dolphins are apparently very interested in David Boston. If it's for a 3rd rounder, it's a no-brainer. But taking a chance on that guy is a risk in the best of times, I'd have to cross my fingers and hope he leaves his baggage in San Diego.

[Jedi Master Carr]

He might be better off somewhere else. But it shows how stupid Schottenheimer is I can't believe that guy is still coaching them.

[Ryan Pode]

I was a Niner fan till the Ravens came to Baltimore. Maybe the Niner's strategy is to get the first pick for the next few years? It only took Cinci 10 years to get good.

[jjwr]

Ty Law is at it again....what a joke. I can understand not wanting to take a pay cut but the guy wants a 20 Million Signing Bonus and 28 Million over the first 3 years, all this for a 30yr old Corner Back.

Trade him....maybe the Pats could find someone who would give them a #1 pick for him.

[Jedi Master Carr]

They should cut him after June 1 that would fix him, he would never find that kind of money then.

[jjwr]

Agreed, dump him and take the hit and move on. They've still got Tyronne Poole on one side and their promising rookies in Asante Samuel and Eugene Wilson(who was forced to play safety last year).

If they could swing it a trade would be great, dump him in the NFC and make sure he doesn't come back to haunt the team, he's still good enough to worry about.

Dolphins got a nice pickup in Boston, if he plays well he'll be a steal for a 5th rounder next year! He still had 70ish rec, 880yds and 7 TD's last year.

I hear the Pats are looking at John Lynch, imagine Lynch & Harrison in the secondary together....ouch!

[Jedi Master Carr]

With Vincent going to the Bills (cough cough idiot) the Chiefs wouldn't mind getting Law but I don't want price it would take for them to get him. Right now the only decent corners that are left are Bobby Taylor and Ray Buchanon. And Ty Law are way better than either one of them.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well it looks Owens is going to Philadelphia, some kind of deal has gotten worked out to make everybody happy. I have to say this will drive Owens ego up even more. Still there is a good thing, if Owens acts up in Philadelphia the fans will throw things at him :p

[jjwr]

Like he cares, I wish the teams would have stuck hard and made him go to Baltimore, like you said this will just feed his ego.

Oddly enough playwise one of the top 10, possibly top 5 WR's in the game was traded for a #5 pick and a marginal player.

Chiefs could definetly use Law, a good veteran Corner to help bring the team together.

[Ryan Pode]

Still there is a good thing, if Owens acts up in Philadelphia the fans will throw things at him

I hope he gets hit by a rock and wishes he came to Baltimore.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The fans there can be brutal especially if their team doesn't win. Not sure about the Eagles they lost a 1/3 of their defense not sure how they are going to fix that, especially Vincent and Taylor.

[Jedi Master Carr]

This is a great article about Owens

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=ratto_ray&id=1761067

[Ryan Pode]

Aye, reminds me of one I read at the Raven's site a few weeks ago, its no longer up, but it was generally the same thing, except listed out Philly Fan's actions against people over the year.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Really you Ravens are better off without him, the guy is a cancer.

[jjwr]

The Draft talk is ramping up....Go Pats! As long as they get a good RB and a LB in round 1 I'll be happy. None of the RB's are listed super high so they should be able to get Kevin Jones, Greg Jones, or Stephen Jackson as well as a good young Linebacker.

Also opening the season on Thursday night against the Colts....wow, that's gonna be a tough game, so much for a easy one to try and bump up their winning streak to 16 :)

[Morgan Evanar]

I really hope the Fish's offensive line doesn't suck this year. Unless you have Dante Culpepper, you better have a line that can do something. The Fish would have probably won three or four more games if they had a real front on O.

[jjwr]

Or if they had a real QB.......

[Morgan Evanar]

No, you need a line, or you can't run the ball. The QB can't do anything either if he's got two seconds to throw, sorry. I think linemen are one of the most important and often overlooked players by armchair coaches.

[jjwr]

Obviously the offensive line is important but the Dolphins problems don't end at the line. With a RB like Williams you would think just about any QB plugged in could do something but that wasn't the case, so between the poor line play, poor QB and a mediocre offense in general the whole unit suffered.

[Morgan Evanar]

The Fish's main offensive failing was in the line, I don't think anyone who watched the games would disagree.

[Charley]

Originally posted by Morgan Evanar
No, you need a line, or you can't run the ball. The QB can't do anything either if he's got two seconds to throw, sorry. I think linemen are one of the most important and often overlooked players by armchair coaches.

This is the most fundamentally important thing that's been said in this thread.

[Jedieb]

Lynch, gone....
Sapp, gone....

I won't even recognize the Bucs next year. :(

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Jedieb
I won't even recognize the Bucs next year. :(

Sure you will. They'll just be regressing back towards their 1980's incarnation. ;)

[Madmartigan]

I know a lot has been talked about Denver but I want to put my two cents in.

Granted, Clinton Portis is a top tier back but he is also somewhat a product of the system that Denver runs. I think he will do great in Washington but maybe not as well as he did in Denver. Denver runs a small fast offensive line that allows for smaller backs with quick speed to have huge impacts which is what Portis is. He's going to lose the advantage of that quick line that makes fast adjustments once he leaves Denver and he's not going to be as effective.

Some people have been saying Griffin is too small, but when Portis arrived in Denver 2 years ago he was not much bigger than Griffin is now and people were saying he was too small. I think he will do nicely behind that quick Denver offensive line.

Plus they resigned Droghns and Garrison Hearst out of San Fran. I am think Mike Shanahan is thinking that if Griffin can't cut it he will move Mike Anderson from Fullback back to tailback and give the full time fullback job to Droughns. He did offer Droughns more playing time if he resigned after all.

I think Hearst will wash out of Denver by midseason, hes not really that good but then again hes got some talent and any back of any merit should do well behind that Denver line.



Then you got to look at it from a Defensive point of view, Champ Bailey is one of the top 3 DE's in the entire NFL. I'd put him at number 2 behind Ty Law. He is one of the few ends that can completly lock down a player man to man. Thats a huge boost. Now with the signing of John Lynch Denver has its first pro bowl Saftery since Steve Atwater's glory days. Denver can play a NE defensive scheme now allowin Bailey to play man on man with the other teams #1 WR and then play doubles on their #2 and #3 recievers.

They also signed Jed Weaver which is good because Shannon Sharpe is going to play only one more year if even that. Hes already thinking of not playing next year and Weaver will be a good replacement for him especially if he can get a year of Sharpes tutalage.

What Denver still needs is a quality #2 WR. Ashlie Lelie should be it but he just hasn't panned out for me and with Eddy retired now there is no #3 reciever either. Drafting recievers is hard because it takes then 2-3 years to develop (there are exceptions Boldin last year for example). I think they need to fish around the free agency and find a good quality #2.

Should be interesting next year to say the least.

[Jedieb]

Sure you will. They'll just be regressing back towards their 1980's incarnation.
Orange popsicle uniforms and a queer winking pirate on the helmet.... NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL I could believe Sapp went to Oakland, it was obiviously the money becaue the Raiders are about close to a contender as I am to Lucas's fortune. KC should still win the West, the question is can they get to the SB I am hoping Gunther Cunningham can do something with that defense. The previous Defense cordinator was a moron.

[Madmartigan]

No Denver should win the west. stop being so pestimistic :p

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well KC still has the best offense in the NFL and I think there defense will get better (it sure can't get worse) I think Denver will have problems losing Sharpe is going to hurt, IMO. I think Plummer will have to play better and his history when playing with out a solid running game hasn't been good. Denver should still be good win 10 games I say, KC should be able to win 11-12 and win the division.

[jjwr]

Denver could definetly be solid this year, but then again the same was said last year. The big question is can Shanahan do it without Elway? So far the answer is no :)

I wouldn't overlook the Hearst signing, between him and Anderson you could get a 1500yd back with 10-12 TD's, but with fresher legs due to the split time.

Sapp was all about the money and like usual the Raiders are stockpiling older players rather than totally start over with a fresh young roster which is what they need to do.

I'm curious to see what the Chiefs will do, as long as they're not playing the Pats I like to watch them, then again if their defense hasn't gotten better than I may not mind so much :)

Ty Law....trade him! It would be sweet if they could score a high draft pick for him, I don't see it happening though, he'll play another year under his current contract and be cut next year. The good thing is he will be playing this year to justify his next contract so the Pats should get a good year out of him.

[JMK]

I'm still bent about the Dolphins picking up David Boston.
Not the type of guy this team needs.

What do you all think of the new 3 challenge rule? Personally I don't care about it. I don't think most coaches used both of the ones they get each game, so I'm not sure a 3rd is necessary. But I also don't think that if a coach wins a challenge that he should lose that challenge.

[jjwr]

Boston could be huge for them though, but your right, the question is will he stick and actually play for them.

This is pretty much the make or break year for Wandsteadt so he may bend over for Boston if he's playing well.

With the additional challenge, or keeping of the challenge they may be more prone to use them now. With only 2 per game it would have been easy to use one and then later on regret it as a few big plays came up which could have cost you.

What I don't like about it is that certain things are non-reviewable and the whole when the whistle blows the play can't be challenged thing. Thats what bothers me the most.

Last year in the playoffs in one of the Pats game a pass was completed by the other team, they hit the receiver and the ball popped loose, they picked it up and it would have been a TD.

But...the ref on the scene thought it was a incomplete pass so they blew it dead on the spot, no replay....so rather than let them run in for a TD and then challenge the play they called it dead so no replay at all.

Thats whats bogus about it, teams can really get screwed by the refs if they decide to blow something dead when it was a obvious bad call.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think Denver is going to cut Anderson, that has been the rumor. KC hasn't done much to change their defense they have just signed their FA and added one so far, Lionel Dalton from Washington, he could be good or not, either way they signed him to a minium deal he sure won't hurt the team any. They could still draft a good DL too. The only hope I have is Cunningham can do something with the team. Robinson had the worst play calling that I have ever seen.

[Madmartigan]

Oh great we got a Chiefs fan who is in Denial. Carr was probably predicting them to with the Super Bowl about half way through last year.

Granted KC has a great offense but that defense is dismal and I have yet to see them do anything in the offseason that will help them. Denver realized their defense was dismal and went and made vast improvements to improve it, KC realizes their defense is dismal and they try and slap a band aid on it and pray their offense can put up 40 points every game.

KC will do good because of their offense but will stutter and fail come playoff time because of their defense.

KC has two problems in my opinion.

#1 Defense- this has to be one of the worst defenses in the entire NFL, they couldn't stop a high school cheerleading squad at times. The only player they have signed in the offseason is Lional Dalton whos not going to be that much help. The Chiefs need and entirly new secondary. New safeties and new cornerbacks. they might be able to draft a little to help them but unless they start doing some deals they are going to be just as horrendous next year.

#2 Wide Recievers. Wow I think only the Eagles had as bad of recievers last year. Your #1 reciever is your TE, when that happens it means you are in big trouble. Eddie Kennison was your best reciever thats scary. I didn't like Kennison when he was with Denver and I don't think hes any better with KC. The guy is a #2 reciever at best maybe not even that. The Chiefs need in my opinion a #1 and a #2 reciever thats hard to come by another problem they won't be fixing anytime soon.

[jjwr]

Hmm...I read a report that the Pats may trade up to get into the #6 spot in the draft, it would cost them 4 picks though(both 1st rounders, a 2nd and a 4th).

The idea was they would target Safety Sean Taylor if he was still available when the Lions pick. That would allow them to put him in place with Rodney Harrison and move Eugene Wilson back to CB which is his natural position....which would free up Ty Law to be traded!

I would still rather them hold steady, maybe move up a little bit and get Stephen Jackson and another solid player at #31.

[Jedi Master Carr]

First off I didn't pick the Chiefs half way through I know better than do something like that. Second Gonzalez is almost better than any WR there is he is a an unbelievable player who can catch 80 passes and have over 1000 yards in receiving. The WR are decent enough which don't hurt them. They have the #1 offense so I wouldn't pick apart that too much. Third about the defense, they made one huge change they brough Cunningham back the man is a defense genius, and Robinson was a moron, he had the stupidest schemes that I have ever seen, Cunningham keeps things more simple and is more of an attack philosophy. I also disagree with you about the secondary, Safety wise they have two very good safeties, and Mcleon had a great year last year. Warfield isn't terrible although I wish they could have gotten a shut down corner but they just don't have the cap room. The Front 7 is fine, they were just totally misused last season. I think things will be different under Cunningham.

[Madmartigan]

Shannon Sharpe was and still is as good as many recievers in the league and Denver never made him their primary threat not even in his heyday with Elway throwing to him. Gonzalez is great but that doesn't mean ya can forgo having receivers to stretch D's. And you know that KC has no recievers.

Think back to last year KC had this incredible offense that by midseason began to sputter a little. Then they began to lose. Theres a reason for that without quality recievers teams where able to find schemes that worked against them and KC was helpless to make adjustements because they didn't have the personell to mix things up. KC needs recievers simple facr.

And Greg Robinson is not that bad, heck you guys stole him from Denver where he coached two defenses to superbowl wins. Greg's style was always bend but not break defense. KC does not have the personell to play thay kind of defense. When he was with denver he had those amazingly fast LBs that could play catch up, he doesn't have that in KC Granted I think a coach should adjust his schemes to the personell he has (Steve Spurrier being a prime example) but i don't think Cunningham is going to improve your D much, you still don't have the personell.

[JMK]

If I were the Pats I wouldn't trade away all those picks. Billick can shape and mould anyone he likes. I wouldn't think the Pats would have to pick so high to make an impact. If it's all about getting rid of Ty Law, well that's a different story. I can't understand what his problem is. He's the highest paid corner in the league and he just got another ring. What could be so bad that he NEEDS to leave?

[Jedi Master Carr]

You forget Holmes here buddy, that man is a huge weapon, and they are more of a running team (they were the #1 rushing offense in the NFL) a great running game is better than great WR I take that any day. Robinson is a moron, he tried to use his system which was schemes to confuse the offense it didn't work in KC partly because he didn't have the players to make it work, most of these players fit Cunningham's schemes more. I am not saying the defense is going to be great but if it improves just by a little bit (goes from 29-24 or something) that can be the difference to get them to the SB.

[Madmartigan]

I like Holmes I really do, he is so versatitle a lot like Marshal Faulk a few years ago. But I still like a pick your poison offense better. If ya got a good recieving game to compliment your incredible running game your unstoppable. If the D keys on Holmes then your passign game can rip them to shreds. If they key on the passing game Holmes can rip them to shreds.

Think Denver when they had Elway and Davis, you were dead there was no way around it. Think the Rams winning season when the had Warner (an those 3 incredible WRs) and Faulk, just unstoppable.

Heck if KC can get a passing game they won't need to improve their defense at all because their offense will never leave the field.



As far as the Pats go I think its insane to trade 4 picks away to get rid of Ty Law. Ty Law may not be happy but dang hes still probably the best CB in the league and your talking about trading away you entire draft to lose the best CB in the league thats insanity.

[jjwr]

Chiefs offense can be very good, the receivers are fairly marginal but when you have someone like Gonzalez in the middle keeping the safeties in and a RB like Holmes keeping the LB's near the line it allows the receivers a lot more single coverage which makes it easier on them. Maybe none of them are Marvin Harrison but with those other two factored in they don't need to be.

As for the Pats....who knows. If they could pull the trade off, get Sean Taylor and then trade Law for another #1 I would agree with it but I just can't see trading away two #1's and a #2 for a single player, especially after coming off a Superbowl win. With a good draft this year the Pats could easily set themselves up to be a Powerhouse for years to come. They've got a good young QB, three good young WR's, get a good young RB, use the next 2-3 picks on the defense and all should be well.

[Madmartigan]

Denver just traded Deltha Oneal and a 4th round pick to the Bengals to move from 24th in the 1st round to 17th

I don't like that at all, had it just been Oneal to move up 7 spots in the draft i would have said ok thats a good deal, had it just been there 4th round pick to move those 7 spots I would have been ehhhhh I don't know but both is a terrible idea.

[JMK]

I wouldn't like that deal either if I were the Broncos.

[jjwr]

7 Spots in the 1st round can be huge though, depending on who they're looking at. One mock draft I read through said they may have made the move to jump past both the Patriots & Cowboys who are in the market for a RB and get Stephen Jackson.

[Madmartigan]

Yea, just what we need another running back. After trading Portis we still have Mike Anderson, Rueben Droughns, Garrison Hearst, Quentin Griffin, and Cecil Sapp all of who could probably do well as the primary back. I did expect the broncos to draft a back but not to use their first round pick for one.

I think they should use their first pick for a CB or a WR, two possitions they still need help on. Bailey locks down one side of the field but you still need a good CB for the other side. And with Eddy's retirement and Lelie not playing up to his potential ya need a good WR to slot up with Rod Smith.

[jjwr]

It was just a thought :)

Actually I read that on ESPN or some other such site, I thought it a bit preposterous as well with their luck on later round backs.

At 17 they could get a solid CB, though the best 3-4 are projected to be gone by then, they could definetly get a good WR though, plenty of solid ones to be had in the middle of the first round.

Read Peter Kings CNNSI and a few other articles today, talking about the Chargers and Giants possibly plans, I wouldn't be suprised to see the Giants end up with the #1 and the Chargers trade down to the 7-10 range and get Philip Rivers as well as a few other extra choices to help rebuild their team.

[Madmartigan]

I am also wondering if Jackson might not slip to the second round, I don't see but one or two backs going in the first round. With all the luck Denver has had in late round running back picks, their value has been slipping. Then you got to look at guys like Domanic Davis who also was picked up later on. There is deffinitly quality RB's left in the 4th and 5th round if you want to wait. CB's always go fast because there is always a shortage of them.

[jjwr]

Well the schedule has been released, I do have to wonder why so few teams are getting prime time games while almost half the league makes no appearance. Something like 9 teams have 4 prime time games, I understand they want to cut down on the number of bad games but you have some very good up and coming teams who were ignored like Atlanta, Houstan and Jacksonville, those three could easily suprise this year. And odds are at least 1 or 2 of the teams who has 4 games will suck and make more bad games happen.

Ravens have 4 games.....wtf! Packers have 5 prime time games! Thats more than both the Patriots and Ravens. I swear the NFL and TV, and columnists think everyone loves the packers, the team has been overrated for years. Blah.....can't wait till they truly fall and we'll have to stop hearing about them for a while.

Pats got hosed a bit in their schedule, the 4 Prime Time games are fine, though two are in consecutive weeks. They got the dreaded week 3 bye though, which will hurt them, I'm really curious how they determine who gets which bye, anyone know?

They also flip flopped their two Miami games, it used to always be the Pats played in Miami early and then hosted them late. This gave both teams a distinct home field Advantage, Pats go from Northeast in the Fall(cool & windy) to a very hot and balmy Miami early, and then Miami has to travel up to NE for a cold and blustery game. Now the Dolphins are coming up to NE in the Fall and the Pats are going down there in December. Interesting, it should actually remove the weather advantage for both sides and get a pair of good games rather than the typical whoopings that occur(though last year the Pats managed to win both which rarely happens).

[JMK]

Originally posted by jjwr
Ravens have 4 games.....wtf! Packers have 5 prime time games! Thats more than both the Patriots and Ravens. I swear the NFL and TV, and columnists think everyone loves the packers, the team has been overrated for years. Blah.....can't wait till they truly fall and we'll have to stop hearing about them for a while.

They also flip flopped their two Miami games, it used to always be the Pats played in Miami early and then hosted them late. This gave both teams a distinct home field Advantage, Pats go from Northeast in the Fall(cool & windy) to a very hot and balmy Miami early, and then Miami has to travel up to NE for a cold and blustery game. Now the Dolphins are coming up to NE in the Fall and the Pats are going down there in December. Interesting, it should actually remove the weather advantage for both sides and get a pair of good games rather than the typical whoopings that occur(though last year the Pats managed to win both which rarely happens).

I can't understand why the Packers keep getting so much exposure. Take Brett Favre off that team and they'd be lucky to have ANY prime time games. Maybe the schedule makers know something we don't; maybe this is Favre's last season and they want to give everyone a chance to see him.

As for the flip flop of the Fish/Pats game, I'm glad this happened, but I'm a little biased being a Dolphins fan. The late december game in Foxboro always killed the Fish, and it was almost always because of the weather. The Dolphins only lost 12-0 in NE this year and the offense gave up 9 of those points. This levels the playing field somewhat.

[jjwr]

Agreed on both points, the Packers were incredibly lucky to even be in the playoffs and over .500 last year, a few incredibly lucky breaks went their way and as a reward they get 5 Prime Time Games.

The thing is the Pats usually do just as poorly early in the year down in Miami, they had lost something like 10 straight down there before September, so both teams were holding a very solid home field advantage due to weather. With the games flopping both should have similar weather and be a pair of much more even games.

[JMK]

As far as the Ravens getting 4 prime time games....I don't know what to say about that. It HAS to be because they have the NFL's rushing champ of 2003 and probably the best defensive player in the league. Maybe when they were making the schedules they thought Terrell Owens was going to be there. That would have made for some fireworks with him & Lewis on the same team.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Chiefs are on primetime like 5 times (counting the christmas day game) that is amazing to me. I think it is because the league has seen that every game they are in is generally exciting and they will work well on TV.

[JMK]

Well that one is simple. People love to see high scoring games. The Chiefs are pretty good at running the score up into the 30's with regularity. ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Heh that is true and with their defense last season the games were always close.

[jjwr]

I can understand the Chiefs, like you said they score a lot of points and are fun to watch.

The Ravens....blah, their offense is flat out ugly, hopefully it will be better this year but I'm not counting on much. Course with 4 Prime Time games were going to have to listen to Ray Lewis running his mouth a lot more, just shut up and play the game!

The Cowboys were the other team with 5 Prime Time games, again a horribly ugly team to watch but with Parcells there and some of the matchups I can see why they put them on prime time.

I really hope there isn't a Dallas vs Baltimore MNF game....I can see it now, the Cowboys are leading late by a Safetey, the score is a solid 2-0, oh now! The Ravens run the ball on 22 consective plays for 64 yards and kick a field goal to win the game with 9:00 left in the 4th quarter, 3-2!!!

[JMK]

:lol

Of course the only hype that game would get is Parcells vs Billick.

[Ryan Pode]

Baltimore v. KC for Monday Night Football.

Ravens passing game needs work a lot. Hence Jim Fassel.

[jjwr]

With a running game like they do its hard to imagine the passing game to be that poor, just the play action passing alone should be a snap.

They've got a great TE, I know the receivers are mediocre but its not like the Pats have great WR's and they've done well. Hopefully Fassel can design something that will work to the strength of those guys, if I'm gonna be forced to watch them on primetime 5 times they better not be as boring as last year :)

[Ryan Pode]

Look at Kerry Collins, he's all the Giant's have.

[Madmartigan]

I don't like the primetime game of the Chiefs Vs Denver to open the season.

Chiefs and Denver is one of the better rivalaries in the NFL I like when they give the teams more time to build to this game.

Look at last year they waited tell week 5 and both denver and the cheifs came in 4-0. Now one of the teams is going to drop a game right off the bat making it less exciting.

Then again its in Denver and they ussually split their games with the home teams winning so maybe we can knock KC down right off.

[Ryan Pode]

Clarett is denied. :D

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah him and Williams can't go, I am glad. They can't be picked on Saturday now. However there could be a supplemental draft for these players if the rulling is reversed.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Some more big news Corey Dillon was just traded to New England, they finally get a decent RB. I am glad, I was worried he was going to Oakland :)

[JMK]

Who did the Pats trade him for?

While they get a good RB, Dillon *may* have a hard time fitting into the team-first approach of the Pats. Dillon is a total 'Me' player and for the Pats sake I hope it works out for them.

[Jedi Master Carr]

a second round pick. To me the biggest concern with Dillon is health, lately he hasn't been 100% healthy so it will be interesting to see how that works out.

[jjwr]

Very interesting, if they get the full 16 games out of him they're going to be tough this year.

I would still have rathered then gone for a young 1st Round Back(maybe Chris Perry) but this isn't bad, they should get a few good years out of Dillon, easily the best back they've had since Curtis Martin.

This really changes the Pats whole draft strategy, it really won't suprise me if they trade one of their 1st rounds this year to roll it over again next year. I can see them going for a young Linebacker and either a offensive or defensive lineman.

[Madmartigan]

What a steal for the pats, they really need a running game and this is like an instant running game in a bottle for them for a cheap price I think, your not going to get a much better RB if ya drafted one with that pick

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree there I think he will get 1000 yards easily he is a very good back.

[jjwr]

What amazes me is the Pats still get a top flight RB for a few years and keep their first 2 draft picks, as well as a 2nd and the ones in the 3rd and 4th. Tons of room to move around, and possibly even pick up extra picks for teams that are looking for a RB as the Pats can trade out of their spots and to select a player they like.

From the Pats Fan stand point this won't be a exciting draft, they're going for even more depth, a few young Offensive Lineman, a CB, a D Lineman and my guess is one of the 1st rounders will be a young stud LB, which is what they soreley need.

[jjwr]

NFL.com had their Tuesday Morning Quarterback Column, he did a very funny mock draft, as a Pats fan of course I found these two to be the best...

21. New England Patriots: Any totally unknown player who was waived by another team. It does not matter whom the player is; Bill Belichick will turn him into a Super Bowl starter.

32. New England Patriots: Lucifer, fiend of darkness, University of Gehenna. Two Super Bowl rings in three years with castoffs and who-dat players -- there may be one contract Bill Belichick isn't telling us about. On the plus side, Lucifer agreed to have his signing bonus prorated over eternity for salary-cap purposes.

[Madmartigan]

Shannon Sharpe announced hes coming back for one more year.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Surprised he wants to keep playing, he has accomplished everything possible winning 3 SBs and having the TE record (until Gonzalez breaks it of course :p) Man him and Jerry Rice just can't figure out when it is ready to retire.

[Ryan Pode]

They love the game.

[Figrin D'an]

Maurice Clarett's appeal to the Supreme Court was denied. So, he and Mike Williams are out of the Draft this weekend. Apparently, if he wanted to, he could make the same appeal to another Supreme Court justice (the initial one was made to Justice Ruth Bader-Ginsberg), but there's nothing to indicate that he and his lawyer are going to attempt to do so.

So... now we get to see if the NFL will contact the NCAA about regranting eligibility to these players.


Edit: Okay... so he did indeed file another emergency appeal to the Supreme Court. But, it probably won't be heard in time for a decision to come down before Saturday. Looks like it's supplemental draft or bust for Clarett and Williams at this point.

[Figrin D'an]

And the pre-Draft stories get even better...

ESPN is reporting that Eli Manning is prepared to sit out the 2004 season if he is selected first by the San Diego Chargers.

This is all to force the Chargers hand, to force them to trade out of the first pick. We'll see if it works.

[Madmartigan]

I honestly think they should keep their age restriction, and since they are a privately funded public enterprise its their choice in my opinion and the courts have no right saying otherwise.

I wish the NBA had the same age restrictions.

[Madmartigan]

And i hope San Diego drafts Eli and sticks to their guns let him sit if hes not willing to play for the Chargers/

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Madmartigan
I honestly think they should keep their age restriction, and since they are a privately funded public enterprise its their choice in my opinion and the courts have no right saying otherwise.

I wish the NBA had the same age restrictions.

I'm not disagreeing with the stance, but the reasoning is a problem. Private enterprises are subject to all sorts of discrimination laws. Professional sporting leagues are no different, and cannot discriminate based upon any race, creed, sexual orientation, etc.

The reason the NFL will ultimately win is that the age restriction is part of the collective bargaining agreement between the league and the players association, making it exempt from certain anti-trust legislation.

The argument the NFL presented to the Supreme Court was very well constructed. It made the point that, should the underage players be drafted, then later should the court decision go in favor of the league, the individual teams who drafted those players would not be able to recuperate those draft picks, ultimately leading to said teams being unfairly shorted in the draft process, which would violate the collective bargaining agreement. That was the compelling factor that caused the Supreme Court to see no reason to stay the decision.



As for Eli Manning... if he is intent upon not playing in San Diego, the Chargers won't draft him. They aren't that foolish. They have so many holes to fill and so many personal issues to resolve, having their #1 pick hold out for the entire 2004 season would be disasterous. They'll either trade the pick, or end up selecting Robert Gallery, Larry Fitzgerald or Roy Williams.

John Elway did it and it worked for him. Eli, and Archie, knows there's precident for this sort of thing.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't blame Eli or Archie the Chargers are an awful franchise I knew that when they kept idiot Marty as the Head coach (the man has lost it, Marty Ball just doesn't work anymore). Really they should trade down they have so many holes Eli will not be the saving grace, IMO it won't do them any good and he might even turn into another Ryan Leaf there. I see the Giants moving up and taking him they are very interested in getting him.

[Figrin D'an]

San Diego really needs a total defensive revamp, considering that they've lost their three best defensive players over the last two offseasons (Harrison, Seau and Wiley). But, that isn't going to happen overnight.

So, IMO, the goal should be to improve the offensive line, first and foremost. Imagine if they actually gave Tomlinson a good group of brusiers to make holes for him. The guy would lead the league in rushing every year. Robert Gallery would be a great pick. Solid run blocker, great pass blocker to protect the blind side of the QB. I still contend that Drew Brees can be a good NFL QB, as long as he has time to make the reads and find the open man. It's pretty hard to play QB well when you can only make one or two reads before you have to run for your life or take a sack. Of course, the Chargers could use a big play receiver too... one that can actually get open.

[Madmartigan]

Elway was a different situation though, he had been drafted by the yankees and had every intention of playing baseball if they didn't trade him

Eli really has no options, if he holds out hes just plain stuck, Elway could hold out and say fine i will play baseball

[Figrin D'an]

Regardless of Elway's baseball option, the point is that holdouts can work. It's clear that he doesn't want to play in San Diego. The Chargers aren't going to want to risk that he will sit out until the 2005 draft, or, even if he should cave and sign, that it will become a huge lockerroom distraction.

Trade the pick, and if they still want a QB, Ben Roethlisberger and Phillip Rivers will still be on the board at the 4th or 5th pick.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah but this would hurt the Chargers too. Honestly I agree with Fig, they should draft Gallery, they have no offense line, Manning would get killed behind that thing that is the reason Brees has had problem, if he goes somewhere else I bet he will show he has talent. Put Montana, Elway, Marino behind that Charger line with those WR and they would stink too.

[JMK]

I remember last year saying that if I were Carson Palmer and the Bengals drafted me I would refuse to report to camp, but the Bengals turned themselves around in a hurry.

Generally I can't stand it when a pro athlete refuses to play somewhere for any reason. It's why I've never liked Eric Lindros. Just shut up and play.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well the Bengals had a new coach. Marty isn't going to turn that team around the guy is a moron. And besides I think they need more than a QB they need a like a bunch of defense players, a whole offesne line, and two WRs.

[jjwr]

I just saw the news report that the Cardinals Safety who left in 2001 to join the Rangers with his brother, Pat Tillman was killed in Action over in the middle east(Afganistan?)

[JMK]

I just heard that too, that is very sad indeed.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is sad.

[Jedieb]

Pat Tillman was an athlete that you could call old school and the description would actually apply. Ted Williams lost some of the best years of his career to military service. Tillman gave up a $9M contract to join the Rams out of loyalty to Arizona, of all places, and then he turned down $3M a year from the Cardinals to become an Army Ranger. He went from $3M to $18K without bliniking an eye. He never sought publicity. Wolf Blitzer from CNN went over there to interview him and Tillman declined. Blitzer tried to wait him out figuring it was only a matter of time before Tillman would relent. Blitzer went home without his interview. "If he interviews every other soldier first then I'll give him an interview."; was the quote that was attributed to Tillman.

Tillman served in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Last night he was killed in an ambush. I've been thinking about him on and off for most of the day. He left for Basic Training right after getting married. He could have used that commitment to stay home and keep playing fooball. But he didn't. He could have done his part by doing some USO tours and such, but he didn't. Some part of me would like to think that if he were in his 30's instead of his mid 20's, married with kids, instead of just a newlywed, with one stint of duty under his belt, that he'd make the same choices I've made. But I don't think so. I just think his cojones were a few sizes bigger than the rest of us. He was special and we're all worse off for his death.

[CMJ]

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040424/i/r1499367930.jpg
Fans at Yankee Stadium in New York hold up a sign during the playing of the National Anthem April 23, 2004 in memory of Pat Tillman.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040423/i/r1989342811.jpg
Flags outside of Arizona State University's Sun Devil Stadium in Tempe, Arizona, April 23, 2004, fly at half staff in honor of Pat Tillman.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040423/capt.may10104232009.afghan_nfl_player_may101.jpg
Arizona Cardinals vice president Michael Bidwell, left, and Cardinals center Pete Kendall address the media concerning the death of former Cardinal and U.S. Army Ranger Pat Tillman

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/cpress/20040423/capt.f042311a.jpg
Pat Tillman, shown in this Sept. 2, 1998 photo.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040423/i/r2523096228.jpg

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040424/i/ra508026774.jpg

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know that is sad. I don't think I could do what he did don't know what that means, I just don't have the courage to do something like that.

Well back to sports, the draft is tomorrow and it looks like the Chargers are going to do the stupid thing and draft Manning. Man this shows how much of a stupid organization they have they should trade the pick away. Manning will sit out. I guess they could trade him but that would make them look even more stupid. I guess the Chargers have now replaced the Bungles in the NFL. Maybe we need to call them the Chumpers or something.

[Ryan Pode]

I see San Diego trading #1 for the Giants's. But we'll all know by about 12:30.

[Jedi Master Carr]

San Diego took him and man it didn't look good there were boos, and Manning basically told the press that he would hold out if is not traded. The Chargers have some morons running that team, especially if they don't trade him.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well it took long enough but a trade happened. The Giants took Rivers and then they traded Rivers a 3rd next years 1st and 5th for Manning. This works out for both teams, IMO.

[Madmartigan]

hmmm Manning has turned into a complete jerk in my opinion, I can't respect him anymore i hope he has a career like Ryan Leaf

[JMK]

I think the Giants gave up FAR too much for Manning.

[Madmartigan]

I am stunned why did Denver take a LB, we got the best LB's in the league

I would have been happier had they taken Stephen Jackson and i really don't think we need a RB either
two possitions we are solid at is LB and RB

arghhhhhh I know our LB's weren't %100 last year but thats no escuse to blow a first round pick

[CMJ]

Wait a sec Madmartigan...you're a Denver fan and you're still complaining about what Manning did? How do you think yall ended up with Elway??

Puleeze.

[Madmartigan]

LOL when we got Elway i was 7 years old, and had little understaning of how things worked back then, although i was a huge fan but that could probably be contributed to loving peewee football and growing up in Denver, I can't remember a time when I wasn't a broncos fan


if something like that were to happen nowdays with my broncos i would hate hate hate it, i would not want Eli Manning if the chargers gave em to us for free

time changes all

[Madmartigan]

I knew Denver could not pass up drafting a RB, they just took Tatum Bell why use our second round pick for a RB when we could have had Jackson in the 1st round

I am so frustrated right now.

[Madmartigan]

Finally a WR Darius Watts, now maybe they can get a CB as well the other thing they need to draft.

[Madmartigan]

I am just tottally flumoxed by Denvers draft stategy they did finally take a CB in the 3rd round Jeremy Lesueur, but why did they take a LB and a RB as their first two picks. The two possitions they needed were CB and WR anf rhey waited tell their 3rd and 4th picks to grab these shouldn't it have been the other way around. Why, why?

[Ryan Pode]

An excellent DT to add to build on our run stoppage and a big wide reciever. Kyle Boller seemed happy with the WR choice.

As for Manning, Giants payed to much for him.

[Madmartigan]

Oh most deffinitly the Giants payed way to much for Eli, Rivers will probably turn out to be as good a QB if not better. I get the feeling that the Chargers drafted Eil knowing they might get this kind of trade. They have to feel pretty smug, they got a good QB and 3 draft picks to help the, rebuild. That 1st and 3rd round picks next year will be huge.

[JMK]

I guess the Giants just really wanted the Manning name as a marketing tool.
Weren't the Colts 3-13 when Indy drafted Peyton? Why wasn't there this type of stand by the Mannings when he was drafted?

[CMJ]

I don't think San Diego has had a winning record since their AFC Championship season. That was like 10 years ago.

When the Colts drafted Peyton they'd just been in the playoffs about 3 seasons earlier. Plus their GM had built teams in two other cities.

BTW: I think Eli might be better than his brother.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Also the Chargers have Marty Ball there, the man can't coach any more, I feel sorry for Rivers if he starts next year he will have the same numbers as Brees. The Chargers are the worst Franchise I don't blame the mannings at all.

[Ryan Pode]

Baltimore snatched up another WR and traded a 4th round pick to Jacksonville for Kevin Johnson.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Also the Chargers have Marty Ball there, the man can't coach any more, I feel sorry for Rivers if he starts next year he will have the same numbers as Brees. The Chargers are the worst Franchise I don't blame the mannings at all.

I don't buy the Marty thing at all. The Redskins went 8-8 with him a few years ago....after 1 season. He was let go for the Spurrier experiment which was a huge mistake.

SD is just a terrible franchise right now. I'm guessing it's mostly management. Don't think they're as bad as AZ though.

[jjwr]

I don't see why someone would be complaining about the Bronco's draft strategy, why does Denver need to drafta RB in the first round? Considering what they've gotten in the past it would be stupid for them to draft that 1st round RB when they can easily find one in the 2nd round.

As for the rest, about as I expected, the Lions were definetly busy as were the Bengals, should be interesting to see how things play out.

I'm happy with the Pats getting Wilfork, with their veterans he doesn't have to have a impact year and can be ready to go next year. The 1st Round TE was a bit odd though, with their offense they can definetly use him but a O-Lineman, LB or a CB seems like it would have given them more value.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by CMJ
I don't buy the Marty thing at all. The Redskins went 8-8 with him a few years ago....after 1 season. He was let go for the Spurrier experiment which was a huge mistake.

SD is just a terrible franchise right now. I'm guessing it's mostly management. Don't think they're as bad as AZ though.

I guess I am still upset with him at what he did with KC, the only time the Chiefs had a good offense when he was there was when they had Montana, he knows nothing about offenses and he nearly destroyed the franchise by bringing every crack adict, thief and thug you can think of (Rison, Bam Morris, McCglockton). I just don't like him as a coach.

[Madmartigan]

I said i would have rather had them draft a RB in the 1st round rather than a LB. But i still think they needed to draft a WR or a CB in the 1st round not a LB and not a RB,

And Denvers finally listening and getting what they needed. I hadn't realized Ian Gold was a holdout, so if they can't resign him it might not be bad to get DJ Williams to fill in for him. They deffinitly drafted Tatum Bell to high though, hes the kind of back that Denver loves small and quick (portis was small, griffin is small) but I don't think anybody would have drafted him before the 4th round because most teams don't want those small backs. I think Darius Watts might be a steal if they can keep him healthy. TRIANDOS LUKE might make them a good #3 reciever and we can always use young blood at CB in JEREMY LESUEUR and JEFF SHOATE.

[Ryan Pode]

The Draft has ended. The Ravens come out of the draft weekend with 12 recievers on their roster. Maybe one can learn how to catch?

[Jedieb]

CBS just dropped Deion Sanders from their pregame show. Ah, another obnoxious personality bites the pregame show dust, how sweet!

[jjwr]

Eh....I never watched the CBS pre-game anyways, I typically watch ESPN crew till they finish and then go away and come back when the game starts.

[JMK]

Yeah I never watched the CBS pregame except on Thanksgiving.
I don't know how Sanders thinks it's all reasonable to ask for double his 1 million dollar salary. What a putz.

[Jedi Master Carr]

He is a moron, I rather see them bring back Ditka he was more entertaining.

[jjwr]

Pats tickets go on sale to the public in roughly 38 minutes via Ticketmaster.

They typically sell out in roughly 10 minutes so I've got my account created, my card on file and 3 computers set up within arms reach to try and get in as many times as I can.

Hoping for one game, I don't care which, preferebly a earlier game rather than a later as the December games aren't as much fun.

[JMK]

I've got tickets to Miami vs Buffalo in October. That should be hellafun! 8 Fish fans in Buffalo? I think we may get killed or something.

[Ryan Pode]

Alas. It's impossible to get Ravens tickets anymore.

[Madmartigan]

They hired Shannon Sharpe to take Deion's place, so you replaced one loud mouth with another lound mouth and this is coming from a Broncos fan, i always though Sharpe was a lound mouth.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL I agree with you there. Of course this helps my Chiefs (Sharpe has really burned my team over the years) so I am not going to complain about him retiring although hearing his loud mouth on the air might make me change my mind :p

[jjwr]

I never cared much for Sharpe and still feel Ben Coates was the better pure TE....oh well.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Hey you forgot my man Tony Gonzalez, to me he is the best TE, at least receiving wise, IMO. I think he will set ever record when he retires.

[jjwr]

Oh agreed, but I'm talking more before his time when Sharpe & Coates were the big two.

On a related note.....no Pats tickets for me :(

I heard some people saying that certain games were offered to just the season ticket holders so they were never even opened up for public sale. I understand a lot of teams don't even do this so its great we get a chance but it would be nice if the average fan had at least a reasonable chance to get to a game.

[Ryan Pode]

Thats what they do with Raven's tickets. Thus if you know one of the original ticket holders, that is your only way to get tickets.

[Jedi Master Carr]

well you can try for the scalper route, still that sucks most teams don't sell them that way.

[jjwr]

I think I need to bite the bullet and get on the Pats waiting list for Season tickets, right now the list is a ungodly number of years but at least my name will be out there.

I'll keep my eye out and hope for the best, I don't mind watching them at home, much more comfortable, cheaper and you get a better view, its fun to get to one game a year though.

[Ryan Pode]

MIAMI - Prosecutors dropped a final charge Monday against New England Patriots (news) cornerback Ty Law, who was arrested in April after he allegedly led police on a brief foot chase.



Joel Hirschhorn, Law's attorney, said he previously discussed the case with prosecutors, who dropped the charge of disobeying a lawful command by a police officer and the traffic ticket before Monday's hearing.

Prosecutor Jonny Mosely dismissed the remaining charge of resisting an officer without violence at the hearing. Miami-Dade County Judge Jeffrey Schwarz also agreed to return Law's $150 bond. Mosely had no comment on why the charges were dropped.

"This is a classic case of DWB: driving while black," said Hirschhorn, who wasn't in court. "There was no basis for the arrest."

Law, who wasn't in court Monday, was represented by Brian Bieber at the hearing.

Law was charged with resisting without violence after Miami Beach police said the 30-year-old Pro Bowl player sped off in his Rolls-Royce after being pulled over for a lane violation.

Police said they chased Law for about a half a block until he stopped again, and told Law to put his hands behind his back, but he pulled away and ran off.

Police caught up with him after a short chase.


You'd think a Pro-bowl CB would be able to evade police for more than a short chase.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Kinda of funny, of course he is looking at a fine at the most nothing for him to be worried about.

[jjwr]

LOL....I hadn't thought about that, so maybe he is getting old then if the cops can catch him......

Man the Pats are looking stacked this year, with the way the NFL is everything is up in the air but they are looking very strong. Their schedule is brutal but I don't see a repeat of 2 years ago where they miss the play offs.