Charley Hustle and His Big Fat 14 Year Old LIE

[Jedieb]

Oh Pete, where do I begin?
Hall of Fame?
Yes
Allowed to work in MLB?
NO

For 14 years Pete Rose has lied over and over again about whether or not he bet on baseball. He just didn't lie to fans, he lied to his friends as well. Over the years countless friends and admirers stood up for Pete by saying; "If Pete says he didn't do it, then I believe him!" And how many cheap shots has Rose taken at Vincent and Dowd over the years? Now its, oops, they were telling the truth, I'm sorry. Actually, I haven't heard him say sorry to Dowd, Vincent, or anyone really.

One more quick note before the discussion gets going, Rose has admitting to betting on baseball while he was a manager. Don't for a moment think that he didn't bet on baseball while he was a PLAYER as well. Vincent and Dowd had evidence he bet on baseball while a player. And after these last 14 years, who would you believe, Rose or Vincent?

[darth_mcbain]

I never doubted for a second that Rose bet on baseball both as a player and a manager. I do think he deserves to be in the HOF, though. Betting or not, there was a guy who played his heart out and played HARD.

[JMK]

Did anyone other than his friends believe him? There were mountains of evidence against him and he still denied it. I remember being like 9 years old when all this went down and even a naive kid thought he was full of crap.

He does belong in the hall of fame because he did pile up those stats. But he should never be allowed to manage a team again. I don't really mind if he works in MLB, just not in a dugout. Scratch that. Maybe as a hitting coach or something like that, but never as the manager.

[Jedieb]

Betting or not, there was a guy who played his heart out and played HARD.
This is why I feel conflicted about Rose at times. I couldn't agree more with McBain. On the diamond, no one showed more guts and heart than Rose. Running to first base on walks, plowing into catchers in All-Star games, head first slides into 2nd and 3rd, doggedly chasing Cobb's record, etc. But off the field Pete Rose is a damn mess; adulterer, tax evader, liar, gambler, hypocrite, etc... Some people like to point out that HOF's have their share of wife beaters, drunkards, and even murderers. I'm not one to say moral judgements should decide whether players get into HOF's. But gambling is DIFFERENT. It goes to the very essence of sport and competition. There's no denying that gambling and sports are entertwined. We love our sports gambling. But it's this very connection that makes gambling the cardinal sin for an athlete. As a player you simply can't get into the hands of those who make the odds and handle the bets. And no sport has more sordid history with gambling than baseball. The NFL had its brush with the Horning and gambling, but that paled in comparison to the Black Sox scandal. The signs are in every clubhouse. Every ballplayer knows the rules, they're drilled into their brains early on. But like most addicts, Rose simply couldn't help himself. In a way I pity him because he obviously couldn't help himself. In some regards, he still seems to be in denial. He's had his reputation dragged through the mud for over a decade and he's had the indignity of being denied entry into the HOF.

Put the plaque up in Cooperstown with all of his great numbers. Just make sure there's a note at the bottom as to why it took so long for Pete to get in.

[JMK]

Just like the use of enhancement drugs, gambling is just terrible for any pro sport. Both of these things give the impression that what you are seeing is not real, is being pre-determined before the actual game is played. Gambling especially can make a pro sporting event seem no more real than the WWE. Fake and orchestrated.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well he belongs in honestly. If a player like Ty Cobb (adulter, bigot, cheat, who beat up fans) is in the hall of fame than Rose should be in there. I wouldn't be shocked if Cobb bet on baseball considering all of the other horrible things he did.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Jedieb
One more quick note before the discussion gets going, Rose has admitting to betting on baseball while he was a manager. Don't for a moment think that he didn't bet on baseball while he was a PLAYER as well. Vincent and Dowd had evidence he bet on baseball while a player. And after these last 14 years, who would you believe, Rose or Vincent?


That's the one thing that still bothers me. If he's going to admit to betting on baseball, he should come clean COMPLETELY. He's still covering up part of it, IMO. He's afraid if the admits to betting on the game while he was still playing, it'll give the HOF voters greater reason to keep him out.


I've felt, for a long time, that Rose belongs in the HOF for what the did on the field. There's no denying that he was an amazing player, and his stats speak for themselves. Like Jedieb said, if the "compensation" is that his HOF plaque notes his gambling on the game, then so be it.

[Jedieb]

Gambling especially can make a pro sporting event seem no more real than the WWE. Fake and orchestrated.

Wait a minute, the WWE is FAKE!:cry

[JMK]

No no Eb, of course it isn't fake. I just said that because there seems to be a lot of people who don't buy into it. They think all those punches are open fisted and that the winner is already determined before it even starts. But between you and I, it's all VERY real. ;)

[Jedieb]

Thank you, thank you. I knew you were just kidding. The WWE IS real, the Moon Landing was fake, and TPM really grossed $1B in North America. All is right with the world. :crack