It's TPM allegations all over again

[JMK]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106818,00.html

Love how he doesn't mention (white man) Saruman being Sauron's puppet. This crap is even more weakly thought out than the racist accusations made against TPM. Ugh.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It is the same crap, some people are just morons.

[Brielle Acaana]

Also, he forgot to add that it was some of the Elves (the white guys again) who eventually became Orcs.

Stuff like this just honks me off because it is so incredibly stoopid :rolleyes

[Jedi Master Carr]

It is like the whole Watto deal they couldn't even decide what stereotype he was making fun of. First it was he is anti-semetic, no anti-arab, no anti-italian. There are just some people who like to do this crap to draw attention to themselves.

[Charley]

I don't imagine that it was the intention of the director or the producers of the Lord of the Rings films to paint a racist stereotypical tapestry over what could be described as a basic set of principles of humanity's behavior in the natural environment and with each other

The Racist Tapestry of Lord of the Rings !

By Lloyd Hart

I don't imagine that it was the intention of the director or the producers of the Lord of the Rings films to paint a racist stereotypical tapestry over what could be described as a basic set of principles of humanity's behavior in the natural environment and with each other. However, the fact is that the only people of skin color in the entire three part series of films are all associated with the Dark Lord Sauron, the destruction of the earth and all of its occupants. Not to mention the elephant riding mercenaries that resemble the cultures of the Arab world as well as Africa, Persia and East Asia and the fact that the Monarch of the land of Rohan, King Théoden a white guy yelled out "You great warriors of the West" in the final part of his speech to rouse the troops into battle in the third film.

In these times when a homicidal maniac from Texas (the Texas capital punishment policy under Bush) has stolen the American throne and called for a "crusade" against the "evil doers" in nations that white people have been invading, terrorizing, raping and pillaging in for 5000 years with zero provocation, I think we could manage some cultural sensitivity in our popular culture which one must acknowledge has a powerful propaganda affect on the general population that participates in it.

Can you imagine how people of skin color, of Persian, Arab and East Asian ethnic background feel when they come out of these films where all the heroes are white and all the "evil doers" are of dark skin. Being married to an Asian American I watch people disregard my wife everyday while regarding me, simply because of her skin color. Being part of a European family that has lived on the North American continent for 400 years I've been lucky enough to gain perspective that when you create an evil character (Uruk-hai) that resembles native Americans as they have done in the Lord of the Rings films a great deal of cultural and racial alienation will occur.

I am sure that once the filmmakers read this article there will be claims that they had to stay true to the story that J. R. R. Tolkien wrote, but the fact is, African and Asian cultures have always been a part of the European fabric whose ancient legends and fairy tales gave birth to J. R. R. Tolkien's epic portrayal of the battle between good and evil. And what about the Ancient Picts, a tattooed darker skinned cultured that once dominant in the UK. As someone who has grown up in one of the nation's of the Commonwealth of the British Empire, I know for a fact that J. R. R. Tolkien's generation were deeply influenced and thus deeply moved by all those people of skin color that fought alongside white members of the British forces in World War One and World War Two forming lifelong friendships and deep emotional ties.

In fact all Europe's mathematics, reading and writing and technological advancements in transportation and warfare are all based on African and Asian concepts. The reason that Western medicine has not advanced to the enlightened technological level as Chinese herbal medicine and why most Western technology is diametrically opposed to all life on this planet, poisoning our air and water and causing widespread disease and death is for the simple fact that the Freemasons and the Church have not yet let go of the death grip they have on each other's throats. In other words, the enlightened knowledge that the church has attempted to destroy that the Freemasons attempted to save and capitalize on with Western patents has turned into a death struggle that has created destructive technological paradigms here in the West that are now being forced on the populations of the entire earth destabilizing life and bringing with them the pollution of the air and water that once existed only in Christendom.

Of course there are redeeming images and ideas portrayed in the films such as the Ents protecting the forests by destroying the industrial military complex as well as the fact that white people can be turned to evil to join forces with all the evil dark skinned man flesh eating Orcs and Uruk-hai.

It is important to understand that young people are impressionable and influenced by the symbols foisted on them by the popular culture. It would not have been that difficult to make a contemporary version of the Lord of the Rings that included the heroic symbols of people of skin color. I think J.R.R. Tolkien wouldn't have minded including people of skin color as heros in these films if he were alive today. Especially after witnessing the rise of the civil rights movements in both the U.S. and the U.K.. I'm so glad that the Dwarfs, Elves and Hobits finally got their due but unfortunately this was washed away by the lack of heroic images of people of skin color. After watching the Lord of the Rings films I thank the universe and Mother Earth for the Rap/hip-hop culture and the counterbalancing influence the Rap/hip-hop culture has on the youth here in America and around the world.


Gotta love Indymedia. These guys sure are winners.

Uruk-hai are Native American? I missed that one. How did they come to such an amazing conclusion?

The western world has been raping, pillaging, and invading Africa, Asia, and the Middle East for FIVE THOUSAND YEARS without provocation. Oh I see.

Bush hate ++ (BLAH BLAH BLAH)

All our technology came from Africa and Asia, too. Wow.

Oh, and the world is controlled by a conspiracy between the Church and the Freemasons! FANTASTIC.

If it wasn't known already, if anybody ever cites Indymedia as a source for anything, they remove themselves from rational discussion completely.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The funny thing is I figured the Easterlings (sp) to be white Europeans, they sure looked it to me, I just figured they were wearing some type of ceremonial make up when riding the elephants.

[Charley]

The Easterlings did look persian to me, but only the ones who wore the headscarves in TTT. The oliphant riders looked a little different.

Also, what else is Theoden to call the armies of Rohan. Great armies of somewhere in the middle of middle earth? They aren't in the north. They aren't in the south. When you look at the map, they're more west than anything else. Speaking of which, the Easterlings are more south than anything else.

That's it, I claim LotR to be racist against the south. Look at Isengard. You got this old white guy with a bunch of land being worked on by a lot of darkies. :rolleyes

[ReaperFett]

I just came to say this! :)


Originally posted by Brielle Acaana
Also, he forgot to add that it was some of the Elves (the white guys again) who eventually became Orcs.
They did? Where in the movies was that?


My favourite part:

"Can you imagine how people of skin color, of Persian, Arab and East Asian ethnic background feel when they come out of these films where all the heroes are white and all the 'evil doers' are of dark skin," Hart writes.
Yeah, I can see one of a differing ethnic background saying "Jeez, that movie sucked! The only way it could have been redeemed was if Gimli wasn't white!" ;)

[Charley]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
They did? Where in the movies was that?

FotR

[Figrin D'an]

Gotta love how this guy thinks he's the first to bring up such an accusation. This is a discussion that has existed in literary circles for decades, regarding just how much Tolkien borrowed from the real world, and from his personal war experiences, for his work.


And, to agree with Charley, the "Bush Hate ++" pretty much invalidates the entire article IMO.

[Brielle Acaana]

Originally posted by Brielle Acaana
Also, he forgot to add that it was some of the Elves (the white guys again) who eventually became Orcs.


Originally posted by Agent Charley
FotR

Sauroman (sp) is telling his first Urak-ai (sp) about the origins of the Orcs.

Heh! I didnt even have to add my usual 'if I remember correctly' or 'I dont remember the name' :mneh

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I can't see how they think that the Uruk-Hai look like Native Americans. If anything, *that's* the most racist comment I've heard. :rolleyes

[ReaperFett]

I can see a sortof logic to adding other ethnicities. Take Marvel. When they did the Ultimate Universe, they made Nick Fury black and Wasp Asian. Why? Because if they didn't, it'd be a wholly white (And one Grey;)) book. LOTR and The Avengers started around the same time too.

Is it racist? No. Could they have just added a bit more ethnicity? Maybe. I can't off the top of my head think of a single differing ethnicity character in the entire trilogy who was on the good side. But that is simply keeping to the source material.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah it is not like Star Wars where Lucas can add what he wants, there isn't anything that Jackson can do about what Tolkein wrote in terms of lack of ethnicity. Could just make a character black or hispanic for the hell of it.

[TCM'74]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
I can't see how they think that the Uruk-Hai look like Native Americans. If anything, *that's* the most racist comment I've heard. :rolleyes

This allegation disturbs me as the others. Oh yes, I see gigantic indians roaming the earth everywhere everyday with inhuman eyes and snarling beastly faces. Maybe it black tresses or something. Very slim.

And what about them other, normal orcs. The ones with the british accents and that like to eat little people. Bunch of lowlife cannibalistic britons I tell you. What kind of a statement is that about our friends across the Atlantic. Double standards don't go.

[JediBoricua]

Though I do not give any credibility to this article, one has to think about what Tolkien wrote with a grain of salt.

When reading his novels it's fairly obvious he wrote them from an "old Europe" superiority view. His constant references of the West as the salvation of men, the emphasis of black vs white, of darkness engulfing the world, etcetera, could easily be dismissed as prejudicial slang.

But like many other great classics, Tolkien is a victim of his time, and Jackson has no choice but to be faithful to the original text. It would be a greater insult, IMO, to add a brown elve named Legolas Gonzales.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by JediBoricua
When reading his novels it's fairly obvious he wrote them from an "old Europe" superiority view. His constant references of the West as the salvation of men, the emphasis of black vs white, of darkness engulfing the world, etcetera, could easily be dismissed as prejudicial slang.



Very true. His personal musing to write a pseudo-mythology for his own home country, and that combined with many of his personal experiences in World War I contributed greatly to his writings. But his writings are no more racist in intent than a number of authors from the 1800-1950 timeframe. A different era... a different worldly perception, as you said.

[ReaperFett]

Just a little update. Apparently in Britain the BNP (British National Party, our own little racist party) has been handing out leaflets using LOTR to support it, including quotes (Which may or may not have been taken out of context) from the guy who played Gimli.

[Master Yoghurt]

Wow, that is just absurd and sick :x

I wonder if these people saw the same movie and read the same book as me? How can a story which builds so strongly on friendship be viewed as racist when it strikes me as the direct opposite? I mean, the fellowship was a mix of people with different backgrounds and species/races, yet they bonded so strongly together.

[ReaperFett]

Here we go, John Rhys-Davis' comments. As I said, might be out of context, cut together, embelished or what have you:


I think that Tolkien says that some generations will be challenged. And if they do not rise to meet that challenge, they will lose their civilization…. There is a demographic catastrophe happening in Europe that nobody wants to talk about…. By 2020, fifty percent of the children in Holland under the age of 18 will be of Muslim descent.”

[Jedi Master Carr]

I imgaine it has been taken out of context these racist parties are good for that crap.

[Jedieb]

It would be a greater insult, IMO, to add a brown elve named Legolas Gonzales.
:lol
I've always heard how Tolkien wanted to help create a British mythology. So of course his main protagonists are going to be white. But there are so many positive themes, ones that have already been mentioned, that to single out the story as racist is just irresponsible. Anyway, both SW and LOTR have taught us who the greatest villians of all are; OLD PASTY FACED WHITE GUYS! When the hell are they going to get their act together and stage some protests? :rolleyes

[ReaperFett]

I just read the full JRD transcript (Can't post it here, the site might not be deemed ok due to other links). It doesn't sound that majorly out of context.


…but we’ve got to get a bit serious. By and large our cultures and our society are resilient enough to put up with any sort of nonsense. But if Tolkien’s got a message, it’s that “Sometimes you’ve got to stand up and fight for what you believe in.” He knew what he was fighting for in WW1.

[Jedi Master Carr]

He is talking about WW I it sounds, who knows I still think they are taking it the wrong way I don't think he is saying anything racist, I don't see JRD as a bigot.

[ReaperFett]

That's the only mention of WWI in the entire thing. If anyone wants it, PM me. I'm not posting it :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Saying Tolkien is racist is just plain trolling. what else needs to be said? Topic's been done to death.

[ReaperFett]

It's not RE Tolkien any more, it's the use of Tolkien in a racist's campaign, with quotes from an actor.


And don't call me a troll.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I still don't see John Rhys-Davies as a Racist he probably said that in some magazine not meaning anything really bad about it (maybe trying to say how great LOTR is and how great symbol of culture it is) and then one of these racist groups took and put their own spin on it.

[Tear]

This explains why they call gandalf the white Wizard! wonder where his hat is..:p

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
It's not RE Tolkien any more, it's the use of Tolkien in a racist's campaign, with quotes from an actor.


And don't call me a troll.


Read my Post, Comphrend what I really said, Post a reply. Now try again.