Welcome to the Jungle (or, Sydney WTF)

[Charley]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/08/1070732148005.html

Some pretty :cool shootout action. Crazy glock-toting gangstas spinning wheels in Skylines and spraying the south-west side full of holes.

I thought the whole outlawing guns legislation was supposed to make this kind of thing not happen?

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

in a black Nissan Skyline that was later found on fire at Smithfield

:cry

[Marcus Telcontar]

Gun crime rates have dropped signifigantly here since 1996.

Is any legislation or controls going to stop illegal / stolen smuggled weapons like what's mainly been used here? Take your NRA spruiking and take a walk. We're quite happy to generally not to have a society with guns.

It's a family fued and I would think if guns were readily availible, it would be a lot worse. It certainly has been interesting (in the wrong way ) to hear and see this fued develop over the last few months

[Charley]

Originally posted by Marcus Elessar
Take your NRA spruiking and take a walk.

Poor form. Not that the NRA condones assault or pistol firearms anyways, but I digress. You're always quick on US-related introspection, so allow me to retort :)

How many repeatedly-premeditated violent acts are done with registered, legal weapons btw? Answer is not many at all.

So you really think it would be worse with legalized and registered handguns available to the populus? I can't really imagine this hypothetical...

"Yes I'm John (insert infamous feuding sirname here) and I'd like to purchase that dandy new black pistol in the window!"

Gun store clerk: "And you're not going to hose half the town like your family's done a few times before?"

"Nope! Scout's honor!"

And with these feuds raging on in Sydney, it's gotta be comforting to know that these yahoos are at large, peeling off in expensive sportscars, and blasting up the streets as they go. Oh, and there's not a damn thing they can do except duck and cover.

Pro or con, this will definitely be a noteworthy crucible for this social experiment to be examined in.

[Tear]

Ever seen "Bowling for columbine"? Interesting movie on guns and different societys etc. Doesnt really give any answers but raises several good questions. Dealing with why are Americans more violent etc.

I cant remember the exact figures but australia has near 100 or around there some odd deaths by fire arms per year while America has around 11,000. *shrug* I dunno why(honest. that wasnt sarcasm)

[Charley]

Yes, I've seen it. It isn't particuarly noteworthy, as most of its "facts" were cooked up and several scenes were edited to cast a biased light.

America: around 300 million population.

Australia: around 20 million population.

Does that improve perspective?

[Tear]

What about China? Germany? India? Other countries of equal size and population? You could go the route saying well China's communist but im pretty sure if you wanted a gun there itd be just as easy to get it in some massive market, black market or otherwise.

Yet they have less number of deaths from fire arms.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Did I say Legally availible guns? No, guns are even illegally difficult to source

Did I say the guns were legal to begin with? No

Is this type of family fued a common occurance? No, it's alomst unique and clearly used stolen cars as well.

Do you know much about SW Sydney? No

Do you know the history of these shootings? No

So why did you post?

[Charley]

Originally posted by Marcus Elessar
Did I say Legally availible guns? No, guns are even illegally difficult to source

Did I say the guns were legal to begin with? No

Is this type of family fued a common occurance? No, it's alomst unique and clearly used stolen cars as well.

Do you know much about SW Sydney? No

Do you know the history of these shootings? No

So why did you post?

Well, you posted this:


It's a family fued and I would think if guns were readily availible, it would be a lot worse.

Which lead me to believe that you believed that if there was a significant increase in gun availability (implying in this case either a legality of firearms or a rise in illegal arms [which wasn't at issue]), then this situation would have been worse. Therefore, I'd say my hypothetical is quite relevant.

Among other things, you neglect to mention that gun crime rates have been falling in Australia since 1980, not 1996, and that the removal of legal handguns has nothing to do with that change.

Actually, there was a 46% drop in gun crime between 80 and 95, even though legal gun ownership soared. Even more interesting when you consider that the average of 4.8 firearm deaths per 100,000 in 1980 was down to 2.6 per 100,000 in 1995. And among those deaths, 78% are suicide, which if we get down to brass tacks, doesn't require a gun as a prerequisite.

Couple all this with discouraging reports of restrictive gun control policies in countries such as Mexico, Taiwan, England, Malaysia, South Africa, Jamaica, etc, you find that these policies largely accelerate dangerous problems with firearm-related crime. Hasn't happened yet, but who's to say we aren't witnessing a turn for the worse? This policy is still rather young in duration.

So while I may not know much about SW Sydney (irrelevant), I know a hell of a lot about firearm legislation and its effects. And since when has not knowing the natives ever stopped you from making an American commentary? I think I'm within my bounds here.

[Droo]

My views on this are straight forward enough. Guns do not belong in society.

Now unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world so were my views implemented people like Charley wouldn't be able to protect themselves against gun-totting maniacs breaking into their homes and schools. I'm happy in the knowledge that there isn't a gun in my home - I don't like them in society but I do understand why people prefer to have legel posession of a firearm but don't neccessarily agree with it.

Yesterday morning, an old friend of mine from junior school was found dead in the street with a knife in his heart. His killer, now caught, is a man previously convicted for rape and beating his old girlfriend. Chris was killed because he was with this woman and had he a legal firearm on his person, then things would've been very different, I'm sure.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

Im sorry to hear about your friend, Dru :hug

[Charley]

Condolances, Dru. Losing a friend like that is hard to do :(