Padawan Master Shortage

[Estelle Russard]

It seems to me lots of threads are being posted for people wanting new/active masters.

I want to be more helpful, but I dont want to take on more than Im capable. Im sure everyone feels the same.

However, I really think somehow we need to address this, so we can clear some "clutter" (I mean that in the best sense)


Now - I think Padawan/Master should be a tight relationship, meaning one or two padawans per teacher. But this isnt going to help the issue we have at the moment.

I was wondering...I remember TSE days - each Master had quite a lot of apprentices. People were joining TSE daily and it seemed to me that everyone got a master. And I guess this is the reason why.


Perhaps those that are able to take padawans should take on quite a few more. Yes, it will be at the expense of the one-on-one that weve done here, but atleast peeps will feel they arent constantly in limbo.

If it is made clear the padawans are "one of many" then they wont feel they have to have a gazillion training threads, but atleast they can be "connected" to a Master and move their character forward.

I will be willing to do this, if you guys think it is not a destructive or too diluted form of training padawans.

But seriously, we have to do something.

[Figrin D'an]

I'd really like to know how many of the new arrivals are actually new people, and how many are existing members just creating new characters. I think part of the problem is that we have some people whom create a character, play it a little bit, abandon it without telling anyone, then decide to start a new one... wash, rinse, repeat. I'm inclined to propose we begin denying admission to people who do this.

[/rant]



I guess I wouldn't mind this too much. But, above all, we can't change our policies in terms of padawan promotions. I, for one, refuse to let the Jedi Knight standard become diluted because of an influx of interest and greater demands upon each master.

I liked the Class concept... and maybe we should continue it in some limited form... but it probably moving too slowly for most. I admit, as a designated teacher for one of those classes, it hasn't been the most interesting thing to maintain (not to mention the thought of repeating it again for a new group...).


Anyway... if there are those whom want to take on more padawans, that's fine. Just don't dumb down the training because of the greater number of padawans.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I'd really like to know how many of the new arrivals are actually new people, and how many are existing members just creating new characters. I think part of the problem is that we have some people whom create a character, play it a little bit, abandon it without telling anyone, then decide to start a new one... wash, rinse, repeat. I'm inclined to propose we begin denying admission to people who do this.

YES, actually, I got a request from Rikki Van-Warren, who is really Quay'na I think, and, I denied her training. I am really busy, and I am sure y'all are as well, but I am sick (and tired) of padawans who just up and leave. IMHO, I suggest we take only brand new padawans for a while here... or second characters if they are trustworthy people, and I think we all know who those are. I mean, we can all check IPs of new padawans and politely send them a PM that says due to the fact that you already have an existing character here, you will be at the bottom of our priority list so that we can better serve new people.

Sound good?

I would also love to see people promoted a bit faster than they are already (not to dilute it but to make sure that we are looking after those who deserve it.)

[Estelle Russard]

I guess I wouldn't mind this too much. But, above all, we can't change our policies in terms of padawan promotions. I, for one, refuse to let the Jedi Knight standard become diluted because of an influx of interest and greater demands upon each master.

Padawans would not be promoted quicker. They would however have a concrete foundation on which to build, rather than being in limbo.

The classes were a good idea..but interest for those who have to conduct them is a valid point. They seem hard to manage imo. But I cant really say that Ive tried to be involved.

As for the multi-character - this is a good point. Lower priority for those that are not the primary character of an individual.

[Ryla Relvinian]

An addendum: I don't believe in early promotions. I do, however, believe in keeping tabs on the good ones so they don't get lost and, in their patience, get forgotten. :)

EDIT- Bumped: May I suggest that we put the bit about multiple characters into the rules somewhere? Perhaps in the recruitment forum FAQ? I think it would be a disservice to honest-to-gosh newbies if we kept taking more of Quay'na/Xazor multiples before them.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I always check their emails to see if its another Quay ID, but yeah, that's a good idea.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that. ;)

[Estelle Russard]

That is a really good idea.

And I should do the checking thing more often, too.

[Figrin D'an]

I think we're going to have to establish a policy that users creating multiple Jedi characters will only be guaranteed prompt master assignment/training for the first of those characters. Any additional characters will go on a separate waiting list, in order of request. It's the only way to ensure legit newbies get a fair crack at the Jedi experience.

Additionally, I think the individual user should be responsible for declaring their multiple Jedi characters. Anyone found trying to pull a fast one to circumvent the rule will be denied training for ALL characters.

This is all, of course, just my opinion.


No matter what is decided, though... we need to implement it soon.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I agree with everything you've said, Fig :thumbup Let's get it going ASAP.

edit:

how about we put up a thread in Arcan, with a boardwide annoucement so people notice it, asking people to declare all of their alt IDs so we can make up two seperate waiting list type things.

[Navaria Tarkin]

why doesnt it surprise me the multi ID thing has gone outta control... I do hope this helps with that problem Fig...

[Morgan Evanar]

The world's biggest twat came out of the clothset to say:
What about those Padawans who have been around long enough to know the ropes -- can't you pull them from the general group and make them Knights so some training can be done for those others who are not ready? Perhaps compromise for a little while on the amount of time it takes to get to Knighthood so that a base of trainers can be built up so that there are not problems like this. AHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAH FUCK YOU XAZOR.

I think we just need to impliment a rule of one Padwan per human being at a time. Those who aren't following it right now will be grandfathered in at our discretion.

[Estelle Russard]

Nice post in the OOC forum Morg. tally-ho

RE: Sejah's post - I thought he was declining promotion when we last discussed his promotion? Guess we need an update. Should do the same with Loki, too maybe.

Oh yes, and I agree with the one padawan/player rule.

[Figrin D'an]

I think Sejah's comments were more indicitive of the simple fact that he felt he didn't get the training he needed from Helenias.

[Estelle Russard]

ooh

[Morgan Evanar]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
I think Sejah's comments were more indicitive of the simple fact that he felt he didn't get the training he needed from Helenias.
Give the man a cigar. Thats exactly what he was talking about.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yes, that's what I got from talking to him. Honestly, we're really lucky to have Mitch (Sejah) around... he's a great writer.


I think we just need to impliment a rule of one Padwan per human being at a time.

^^^Yes.

[Dasquian Belargic]

One Padawan = One Jedi character, or if you're already a Knight can you have a Padawan on as well?

[Ryla Relvinian]

I'd say yes, if you have a knight character, you can start another padawan, because as a knight, you can train at least one padawan so it evens it all out.

[Morgan Evanar]

Aight, lets make this shit into stone and put an end to the madness. I also suggest a six month moritorium on someone who just got knighted. Yeah, its a while.

[Navaria Tarkin]

so no making a padawan for six months? kinda extreme....perhaps four? And we would seriously have to be very anal about keeping track of all this

[Morgan Evanar]

Not really, just look out for abuse. How about 3?

[Figrin D'an]

Three is good.

[Navaria Tarkin]

:thumbup

[Dasquian Belargic]

Fine by me

[Estelle Russard]

How about something like this in the Recruitment Center:


If you are a Padawan and need to be assigned a Master, please list your name here.

IMPORTANT: List Only your PRIMARY Character.

As per THIS (http://69.56.186.201/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33690) thread, we will only be assigning ONE padawan per player as our New Priority Policy. (http://69.56.186.201/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34022)(please read and understand this policy)

**note- some of you who have Knight or Master characters already, another Padawan character is allowable as you have already established these characters. You know who you are. (If you dont, PM me or any of the GJO Staff for clarification)**

Reasons for this IMPORTANT notation is clear from the referenced thread, but in short - too many multiple padawans per player is making it very difficult to meet the needs of players who are completely new to the board, or have just one character on the go.

List ONE padawan, and one only. Assignments to Masters will go on a First join, First Served basis.



yes?no?

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yes. :)

And, along with this, I'm gonna go compare IPS on the current padawan list and sort them accordingly for us to see, ok?

[Estelle Russard]

That'd be good. Thats a huge list - I looked at the one Nav did way back, some of those arent around I guess, but I honestly dont know for sure. Thats why I thought for a new list.

[Dasquian Belargic]

YES!

[Morgan Evanar]

Aye.

[Dasquian Belargic]

oh, I might have missed this but... are we going to be 'culling' some of the current padawans? what Estelle wrote implied that they got to pick only one padawan, so do they have to completely drop others? just clarifying.

[Morgan Evanar]

I hope so. Especially the Quay/Myila whatever people.

[TheHolo.Net]

Everything here looks pretty kosher to me, but I will warn that there could be some cases where it may look to us as staff like a single individual is trying to join with multiple accounts at nearly the same time, but in reality its more than a single individual. The one that comes immediately to mind is the case of shared access (same computer) between friends and family members.

One of the most tricky things about such cases is knowing if the individuals really are different, or if they are just stating as such.

[Morgan Evanar]

Well, I think some of us are pretty good at seperating writing styles.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yes, exactly.

What I'll do pretty soon here is go through the list and send a PM to those that look to be on the same IP, and ask them to pick which one they'd prefer to be the primary padawan.

After this rule is official, of course. :)

[TheHolo.Net]

Thats true, but when it comes to recruitments thereoften aren't too many other posts or even enough content to judge a writing style effectively. :p

I'm just playing devil's advocate a bit and trying to help avoid future problems by trying to dream up some possible holes in the policy.

[Estelle Russard]

I think a large part will have to rely on people being honest.

I dont think there will be too many that will try to have multi-padawans training at one time. The answer may just have to be, if a person tries the deceptive route and are discovered, we deal with them as we would someone who breaks any of the rules we have in effect. Make it clear that it is a rule and so will have bad consequences if a person deliberately tries to pull a fast one.

As for Dasq's question, I dont think a person should have to drop any of the characters they have made - but that those secondary ones will be going to the bottom of the priority list, thats all.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Estelle Russard
As for Dasq's question, I dont think a person should have to drop any of the characters they have made - but that those secondary ones will be going to the bottom of the priority list, thats all.

Correct-o-mundo.

[Figrin D'an]

So...

uh..

should I write something up?

[Navaria Tarkin]

yeah... I read through things right now and I dont see anything that was missed. just be clear that if caught making multi characters.. the wacking will commence .. sorry I am reeeeeally tired and cant think well =\

[Dasquian Belargic]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
So...

uh..

should I write something up?

:):thumbup

[Figrin D'an]

Here's what I have:


Padawan Admittance Policy

GJO actively accepts requests from new characters seeking to be trained as Jedi. New and existing characters are welcome to petition for admittance. Characters previously aligned to groups known to be in opposition to GJO seeking to become Jedi must first be approved by a majority Council vote before admittance is granted. All requests are documented and processed in the order they are received.

Because of the limited number of teachers available, characters belonging to new board users will be given priority over those characters created by existing users. For example, a person creating an RP character for the first time will be placed higher on the eligibility list than a person whom has another Jedi character, and is seeking to begin another such character. This is done to ensure the maximum number of board users have an opportunity to develop at least one character with GJO.

Priority is assigned as follows:

1) New users creating their first RP character.
2) Roleplayers of other groups (or independents) creating their first Jedi character.
3) Roleplayers with existing Jedi character(s) seeking to create a new Jedi character. (Number of Jedi characters is a factor... ie. a person creating their second Jedi character will have higher priority than a person creating their third, etc.)

Existing characters defecting from another group to GJO are considered "special circumstances," and are handled on a case-by-case basis by the Council.

Users with existing Jedi characters, and wishing to create a new Jedi character, must declare each of their Jedi characters to the board staff before proceeding. Failure to comply with this request will result in the new character being denied admission to the group. Users found attempting to circumvent the rules of the system through masking of identity will be subject to disciplinary measures, which may include but is not limited to, banning of ALL the users accounts on a temporary or permanent basis.


Addendum - Multiple Jedi Character Policy

1) Users with characters promoted to the rank of Jedi Knight are subject to a 3 month waiting period, in which they are not allowed to create additional Jedi characters. Once the existing character is established as a Jedi Knight (ie. 3 months as a Knight), the user may create a new Jedi character to be placed on the admittance list.

2) Users creating Jedi characters, and later abandoning them (ie. making the characters inactive) must inform the staff that the characters in question are defunct/inactive before creating new Jedi characters. Failure to comply with this rule will result in denial of admittance for any newly created characters belonging to said users. Users found attempting to circumvent the rules of the system through masking of identity will be subject to disciplinary measures, which may include but is not limited to, banning of ALL the users accounts on a temporary or permanent basis.





Padawan Training Policy

All admitted padawans will be assigned a master under whom they will learn the ways of the Jedi. These teachers will be of either Knight or Master rank, and may be instructing more than one padawan at any given time. The number of padawans assigned to a particular teacher is, in most cases, determined by the individual teacher and his/her ability to adequately instruct a given number of students. A padawan will remain with his/her teacher until the padawan earns a promotion to the rank of Knight. A padawan may be taken on by another teacher in one of the following circumstances:

- The teacher petitions the Council to have a student transferred to a different master, and the student agrees.
- The teacher becomes inactive in RP, and the student petitions the Council to continue training with another master.
- IC events leave the student without a master, and the council reassigns the student to a new master.

Once a padawan is promoted to the rank of Jedi Knight, the character becomes eligible to be an instructor themselves, and may begin to teach padawans him/herself.






Please comment upon, add to, subtract from, and/or criticize mercilessly.

[TheHolo.Net]

Here's the result of a quick spell check

alligned = aligned
permenant = permanent (2 times)

I'll take the time to read through it here shortly and offer other thoughts then. :)

[Navaria Tarkin]

i read it through.. spellchecking aside =P ... i dont see anything wrong... though I will read through it again to be sure :)

[TheHolo.Net]

3) Roleplayers with existing Jedi character(s) seeking to create a new Jedi character. (Number of Jedi characters is a factor... ie. a person creating their second Jedi character will have higher priority that a person creating their third, etc.)Corrected:
3) Roleplayers with existing Jedi character(s) seeking to create a new Jedi character. (Number of Jedi characters is a factor... ie. a person creating their second Jedi character will have higher priority than a person creating their third, etc.)All in all I really like the policy and think its pretty well written, covering all of the bases(asses ;) ) that should be covered in a public policy.

[Figrin D'an]

Corrections made.

I'll wait for more opinions, but it seems cover things well.

[Estelle Russard]

All looks good to me, too.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yes, good work. :)

[Estelle Russard]

Lets move forward with this.

Unless there is anything peeps wanna add, can we put this in the FAQ and then we can move on with organizing padawans etc ?

[Morgan Evanar]

go go go

[Figrin D'an]

What are we doing about the classes then? Dumping them?

[Dasquian Belargic]

Either that or get some new teachers. One teacher left, one isn't around, etc.

[Navaria Tarkin]

new teachers of possible if they have the time would be nice

[Estelle Russard]

Keep the classes, but lets get the padawans sorted out, hopefully we can eliminate the "no teacher" problem by solving the "lack of masters/too many padawan" issues.

Im hoping those who can train will be able to take on some more padawans *crosses fingers* but lets get the list sorted first.

Is Fig's post in the FAQ yet?

[Figrin D'an]

No, it's not in the FAQ yet, because there needs to be absolute clarity on our new policy. I'm not going to edit in the changes until this is resolved.


As a note... the banner images on the FAQ are broken.

[Estelle Russard]

oh. so what is still in question?

[Figrin D'an]

Apparently nothing anymore.

[Estelle Russard]

er -- Did I miss something?

[Morgan Evanar]

I think the problem with the classes is the people who decided to teach them. Its a really, really great idea, but we need more than one person who can teach them and post in case someone kind of drops. I would have been happy to take one but I loathe both Sage and Helen.

[Figrin D'an]

The revised FAQ has been uploaded to the GJO webserver. It will have to be updated here on the board.

*hints to Mr. Net*

[Figrin D'an]

http://69.56.186.201/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34022


For reference.

[TheHolo.Net]

I shall add it shortly.

[Estelle Russard]

Progress - yay!

So is the Padawan post I wrote earlier good to go then? Id like to move on with that if it is.

ps) I am willing to teach a class, too - though Im not quite sure what Estelle coud do it on. Open to suggestions.

[Estelle Russard]

A note: I edited my post re: the Padawan list to include Figs link and also to mention padawans will be assigned according to their join date (first come first served).

If this is ok, Ill go a head and post this so we can get on with this.

[Estelle Russard]

anyone ?

[Morgan Evanar]

Sorry, I am distractable e-supremo. We need a rundown of the current classes and the ones where the teachers are not present.