A-Rod to Boston?? And other MLB news.

[CMJ]

Holy cow...it's like the Cold War!!

[Eluna Thals]

:D YES

[JediBoricua]

Look at the crowds at The Green Monster of Berlin, I mean of Fenway!

[CMJ]

:lol

Right now, I think the Sox management would sell their souls for a title. We're starting to be STACKED. If the offseason continues like this for the next 3 months...holy cow!

Basically every other day either the Yanks or Sox makes a move.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Their is a catch in that deal they want the Sox to pay part of Manny's salary. Not sure what they will do there. Then they have to figure out what to do with Nomar. It still a rumor at this point, it could very well happen but we will have to wait and see if it does.

[JMK]

This is like the cold war. Who's going to run out of money first? This isn't good for baseball though. Clearly the Sox and Yanks are making this a big spectacle, something that goes beyond their on field rivalry.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I think the Sox owners were just embarrased after the ALCS and want to win it all. They also have to worry about aging players and such and I am sure that is on their minds.

[JMK]

:lol
Yeah they must be worried about aging players when they sign 38 year old Schilling. :p

Just kidding, I know, he's an exception.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well he is 37 but still ;)

[Figrin D'an]

I'm going to die of laughter if, come the end of next October, neither the Yankees or Red Sox are hoisting the World Series trophy.

My dream would be for the Cubs, with some more savvy pick-ups, end up taking it from one of these two "rich kids" of baseball.

[Charley]

^^^
I could live with that, but I'd rather see the Sox win it all.

[jjwr]

If the Sox to get A-Rod they gotta dump Nomar so they will save some $$$ by attrition.

So they would need to get something in return for Nomar that will give solid stats but won't cost a ton of $$$.

The last I heard was the Red Sox didn't want to go over the Salary cap which is about 120 Million while the Yankees will be way over that again when they're done spending.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Depends on who they shipped Nomar to. They might send him to Anaheim, I heard some rumor about trading Nomar for Glaus and a prospect. Then I heard a rumor about Nomar going to the Dodgers for Perez (Lefty SP). Not sure if there is any truth to either rumor.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
I'm going to die of laughter if, come the end of next October, neither the Yankees or Red Sox are hoisting the World Series trophy.

My dream would be for the Cubs, with some more savvy pick-ups, end up taking it from one of these two "rich kids" of baseball.

The Cubs have practically as much money. They just don't feel the need to spend it. Hell, I'm usually against this kind of stuff...but whatever it takes to beat the Yankees.

Hell if we win the series next year,, I wouldn't even be upset with a Marlins type firesale. We just need to win one baby!

;)

[JMK]

The Rangers have given the Sox until the end of the winter meetings to make a deal for A-Rod. That is next tuesday.

Other things happening: Expos don't offer Guererro salary arbitration so they're through (conflict of interest, MLB???)
and Pudge parts ways with the Marlins. So who's gone from that team now? Lee, Rodriguez, who's next?

[Jedi Master Carr]

We will have to see how this ends up, I really don't know. About Guerror who will sign him now? I think Boston might have some interest if they can get rid of Manny and Nomar for Arod, although not sure if they want to go over the cap. I know Baltimore and Atlanta are both interested not sure who else. Also Maddux and Lopez didn't get offered arbitration from Atlanta either. I am suprised about that Atlanta won't get any picks especially from Shettfield he was goign to NY so why not offer him arbitration.

[jjwr]

If the Sox could get Guerero that would be great but it would be getting awefully pricey over in Bean-Town.

This push for the World Series is great but in the past few years one of the biggest beefs with the Sox was their lack of young talent and I don't think thats ever improved. If they could get a servicable player for Nomar to plug some numbers into the line-up and some solid young players they'd be doing ok.

[JediBoricua]

Another big time free agent is on the market.

Who will get Pudge?

I'm thinking maybe the Cubs are interested, the Dodgers?

[JMK]

Maybe the Mets will take him after they move Piazza to first base.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Nothing new here. Although there is some Yankee news Petitte might be signing with the Astros. The deal could be announced Friday. I still suspect the Yanks to make a last ditch offer. Although I think he might go to Houston he seems to want to play closer to home. Also the Yankees and Shetfield have fallen apart they might not sign him now. And they might not get Vlad either as the Orioles are close to signing him. It seems they might have to settle for Juan Gonzalez.

[JMK]

Steinbrenner makes me want to puke. Pettitte has been a true Yankee since he was a pup. He was brought up through the system and always handled himself with class. Why Georgie isn't reaching out to this guy is beyond me. He must have some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I heard that Petitte wanted to be closer to his family, but that was a rumor, who knows maybe he wants to get away from Georgie too :p

[JMK]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1683732

Pettitte's an Astro as of right now. And the Yankees are about to finalize a deal to trade Weaver for Kevin Brown.

I don't mind this at all. Kevin Brown can still be untouchable, but's he's getting older and is injury prone. Besides, how good will he be with a now shaky Yankees defense?

[jjwr]

Lots of people are bashing Geoerge now for not taking care of business with Pettitte first. I think it serves the guy right and sorry to say this but I'm happy to see Pettitte leave.

If nothing else than to shove it in Steinbrenners face I would love to see the Yankee's collapse next year and miss the playoffs. Torre would be gone and Steinbrenner would go off.

[JMK]

I don't think King George will fold that easily. He doesn't care how much he will have to spend. He will just keep spending and spending and outbidding for players' services. I heard this on espn radio this morning, if George continues to go after free agents the way he normally does, the Yankees luxury tax fee will be larger than all of the Brewers payroll. Now that is sickening. No, there's no discrepancy between the rich and poor in MLB, none at all. :rolleyes

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well he did that in the mid 80's and brought in overpaid players like Danny Tartabul. If he takes control of the team he will ruin it like he did in the 80's he doesn't know anything about talent IMO. This is all fine to me the Yanks can have Brown they guy is almost 40 and he hasn't been able to stay healthy the last three seasons. He has had more arm troubles than any other pitcher in baseball, much worse than Pedro. I think the Yanks are stupid Pettite was the best young pitcher (30 or younger) they had, their staff right now looks horrible. They have Mussina whose numbers are getting worse every year. 400 lb David Wells, the cuban pitcher Contraens (who I think would be better in the bullpen) and some guy Lieber who had Tommy John Surgery and has missed the last 2 seasons.

[JMK]

Don't forget Vasquez! :p

[Jedi Master Carr]

Heh I didn't didn't I :p Still if they add Brown they still will have a a worst rotation that Boston. I never thougth that would happen. Plus I bet they will have to give up a lot to get Brown, I don't think the Dodgers will just roll over and give them Brown for Weaver straight up that won't happen. They will want more, they might ask for Soriano though Steinbrenner will be a moron to give them Soranao.

[JMK]

Well the Dodgers need offense in the worst possible way. They'll ask for Weaver and probably a decent bat in return for Brown. Shawn Green is going to hang himself if he has to be the guy to carry that team alone...again.

[Jedieb]

Petitte is gone. :cryin

The Yankees team that's made this last run is dissapearing before my eyes. Here's somethign to consider in this whole Pettite fiasco. Petitte is being honest when he says he wanted to be closer to home. He even took LESS money to prove it. But don't think that the future of Joe Torre and Mel S. didn't factor into his decision. The Yankees could very well be heading into an 80's era disaster. King George could run amok ruin things quickly. Petitte may have wanted to get out while the getting is good. Even if things go awry in Houston, he's still going to get to see his son play baseball. I think Andy comes out a winner no matter what happens. Right now, regardless of whether the Yankees land Brown or Shefield, the Red Sox are the best AL team on paper.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It looks like they have Brown if he waves his no trade clause. That is fine with me Brown's best days are behind him, I doubt he makes more than 25 starts, he brakes down more often than Pedro. Also Georgie is putting the worst people in the game on this team you have selfish Shettfield (who only cares about stats), Brown who people have called an abnoxious loudmouth, Gordon who is not a great person either. I mean man it looks like he is taking that 80's path again.

[JMK]

Add to that the fact that no one likes Mussina and there are the makings of a real grumpy clubhouse.

Mind you, I still have my reservations about Schilling and Pedro butting heads. If they go at it and the Boston media gets a hold of it, well you may as well drop a bomb on the city because that would be far better than seeing the effects of that war IMO. I just hope I'm wrong.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't see Schilling as the type to start anything, and I think he will be #2 and from the interviews it seems that he doesn't care. The problem is going to be Nomar if they don't get A-Rod. Manny will be Manny regardless of what happens. But Nomar might not come back to Boston after this.

[JMK]

Most experts are now saying the A-Rod for Manny deal is just about dead. The Rangers wanted the Sox to pick up ALL of A-Rod's contract and pay part of Manny's deal. Sorry, but that's ludicrous. The Sox aren't that desparate to upgrade at shortstop. If this deal does fall through I hope they agressively go after Guerrero before Baltimore or worse, the Yankees steal him.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I read somewhere else I think the Globe where it says there is still a chance who knows what will happen. If they don't get A-Rod I think they should trade Nomar regardless now, I don't see them resigning him and they then can go and sign Tejada who is younger and cheaper than Nomar.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I read this on ESPN it gives some insight

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1683946

So I don't think it is dead just stalled. We will have to see what happens this weekend. Generally everything happens at the winter meetings.

[Jedieb]

I think the Rangers are being too greedy. Why should Boston have to make up the difference in A-Rod's contract and pay part of Manny's as well? It's their fault they gave A-Rod that damn deal. Do they expect some other team to make an even worse deal than they did?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well Hicks is a moron, he is the stupidist owner in sports. I read on some site that he lost 40 million trying to promote pro Wrestling in South America. Not sure what will happen, although in some ways this guy reminds me of the Red Sox owner who sold Babe Ruth away.

[JMK]

Although Hicks is an idiot, you can't blame him for trying to make someone else pay for his mistake. Hell, that's the name of the game these days. Get someone to pay for the things you want. And if you can't blame him, at the very least you can't be surprised at this.

[Jedieb]

I wouldn't do it if I were the Sox. They're doing the Rangers a FAVOR by offering Manny's cheaper contract. As for Brown, if the Yanks get 30 starts out of him it would be a miracle. Wells and Brown could go out for ice cream and end up on the DL for most of the year. Oh man, this could get bad. :cry

[JMK]

No one mentioned that super solid Keith Foulke signed with the Sox late this week. This is also significant, as it makes Boston's bullpen MUCH more credible than it was with Williamson IMO.

Also, Miguel Tejeda signed with the Orioles on Sunday and now they're after Guerrero, and Javier Lopez/Pudge Rodriguez. I guess they have a few bucks to throw around.
Why does it seem like all free agents are heading to the AL East?

Elsewhere the Blue Jays have signed Miguel Batista and have traded for a reliever from Colorado (I think). And the Braves & Cardinals hooked up on a fairly significant deal.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't get the Orioles they are spending on hiting and they have no pitching. They are going to be in a lot of 8-7 games I think. Still don't think they will finish above third. I forgot to mention Foulke, he is a great addition and will really help their bullpen.

[JMK]

The Expos signed Carl Everett today and traded catcher Michael Barrett to the A's for a player to be named later. Both are rolls of the dice IMO. Everett is a maniac at times and Barrett, although a crappy hitter, but the team had 1.2 ERA less than when #2 catcher Brian Schneider was in.

[Taylor Millard]

ESPN (and their radio station here in town) have reported A-Rod trade rumors are heating up and we should get a result soon.

Wonderful...[note sarcasm]

[Jedi Master Carr]

There is this too

http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-arod1216,0,7218830.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

We will have to see in some ways I like the deal. Manny is a weird player and A-Rod is the best player in the game. The only thing is I have some mixed feelings because I still like Nomar. And it stinks he has to leave but I can't see him remaining in Boston after this year, he wants more money than Boston can pay him and I think he would rather play in Southern California. At least if he goes to the Dodgers I can still root for him as a player.

[JMK]

I think if the Sox can afford to pay A-Rod they can afford Nomar, they just don't want to pay him what he wants.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well they did offer him a 4 year 60 million deal last year that he turned down. So I think they tried. I really just don't think he don't like the Boston area, too cold for him is what I keep hearing.

[jjwr]

The Sox can afford Nomar but affording the combination of Nomar + Manny plus all of the pitching is a bit much.

Nomar had his chance to re-sign with Boston for a very reasonable sum of money but he declined and now wonders why Boston is looking elsewhere?

[JMK]

Another kick in my pills and other Expos fans.

Apparently Guerrero isn't going to be signed for as much as he thought. The Expos (YES, those Expos) offered 75 million for 5 years and he turned it down flatly. Apparently he isn't going to get as much as that by anyone else.

Punch me right in the junk please, it might feel better than this. :x

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah that sucks, he should have took the money when he had the chance. Now about the Manny-Arod deal it looks very close to me, they are trying to work out some contract details and it could be done today. Then Boston would ship Nomar to the Dodgers for prospects and then ship the prospect to the White Sox for Ordonez. Man if they can pull that off that would give them a better line up especially if they can sign Robbie Alomar to play 2b.

[JMK]

I think at some point the law of averages kicks in. They've added Schilling, they're about to get the best player in baseball, they're already a good high scoring team, I believe at some point signing all these superstars will backfire. I would keep the prospects if I was Theo.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I can't think of a situation like this except when the Marlins went for broke in 97. There might be other examples though.

[JMK]

Geez!
Look at this potential lineup!

CF - Damon (12 HRs in 2003)
3b - Mueller (19 HRs in 2003)
SS - Rodriguez (47 HRs in 2003)
LF - Ordonez (29 HRs in 2003)
DH - Ortiz (31 HRs in 2003)
1b - Millar (25 HRs in 2003)
RF - Nixon (28HRs in 2003)
C - Varitek (25 HRs in 2003)
2b - Walker (13 HRs in 2003)

Now try to predict HR figures for all of them. Do you think Mueller through Millar will all hit at least 25 home runs? Including Rodriguez who's expected to hit at least 40, Ordonez at least 30, Ortiz and Millar at around 30. I can't imagine that a team can put up those types of power numbers in a year.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well Walker is gone he is a FA and won't be resigned they signed one second baseman, but I think they will get Alomar who will probably take less money for a WS at this point in his career. About the rest I think Mueller will not have the same numbers. I do think Ortiz will do well maybe better ( batting avg and RBI wise) Miller could have a better year avg wise as well.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Looks like the union is keeping this deal from happening for the moment

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1688755

This is why I despise the union in MLB, I wish is was more like the NFL union where there was weaker. Still, I was watching ESPN and Peter Gammons thinks the deal will get done, he says both owners have burned too many bridges to go back now.

[JMK]

Yup. Lucchino and Hicks have GOT to get this done now.

If and when it gets done, I hope all Red Sox fans stop referring to the Yankees as the evil empire because right now, the way things are shaping up, they are no better. Still love em though. ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL well it seems the only way to fight fire is with fire :p Heck old Bud Selig is getting involved in this he might approve the deal setting up an arbitration case. I still don't get the union they say they are protecting the players interest, that is crap if they cared about the players they realize that they are ruining the game I wish the union was weaker like it is in the other sports.

[jjwr]

Actually there is a difference :)

The Sox are trying to stay under the Luxury Tax Threshold and keep their salary at least semi-reasonable(well all things considered) while the Yankee's will spend whatever they need no matter what.

Yes the Sox are signing high priced players but not really any higher than what they already have, they're just swapping, trading, etc to get a better team and not going out and signing every decent Free Agent they can find.

:D

[Jedieb]

In the NFL players get their contracts renegotiated for less money all the time. But the greediest and most powerful union in sports isn't about to let THAT horror take place in their sport! Just imagine, if A-ROD were to give up $28M of his $252M contract to get out of his current situation then the very league could fall apart! SOME SUPERSTARTS MAY HAVE TO SETTLE FOR $13M A YEAER INSTEAD OF $16M! OH THE HORROR, THE HORROR.....

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know it makes me sick. They cry that they are doing it for the players. And I laugh I like the NFL better where you aren't guarenteed nothing but a signing bonus. And in that sense it is like the real world where if you get fired they don't actually owe you money.

[JMK]

Another deadline has come and gone for this deal to get done, and yet Peter Gammons reports that the deal is not really dead at all. I don't get this. If the deal isn't dead, why keep going to the media and telling the folks that there's a deadline? Just keep working at it and get back to us when it's 100% dead or 100% done.

[Jedieb]

The trade deadline goes into next year. Conceivably, this could still get done even after the season starts. I think it's probably dead and gone, but you never know.

[JMK]

The Expos signed Tony Batista to replace that dog Tatis at 3rd base. With this signing and the signing of Everett I think they've a reasonably good job at replacing Guerrero's power, but not his overall presence.

[JMK]

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?id=65797

Former Major Leaguer Ivan Calderon shot dead at 42. :(

[JMK]

Now the prevailing rumors suggest that Guerrero is being courted by the Mets, who apparently have a lot of money to spend. This is almost as bad as him signing with the Yankees or Braves! Actually, it is as bad! :cry

[JediBoricua]

Poor poor Vlad if he goes to the Mets.

I hope he doesn't join the ranks of Alomar, superstars whose production has dwindled drastically in the Mets.

BTW, Alomar will sign with Arizona for 1.5 million only. He said he gave up a lot of millions to play with a contender (Malone and Payton set the example, I hope many others follow!). That infield will be solid, with him in 2b and Cora at SS.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Whats the deal with Vlad now? He goes from Baltimore to the Mets now to the Marlins this is just getting confusing.

[JMK]

The worst part is apparently the Expos' offer is still the best offer he's received.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah that is just sad. He turned down the Mets offer and I don't think the Orioles are going to offer him another deal so does that leave the Marlins?

[JMK]

It seems that many teams are afraid that he's got a chronic bad back. One of 2 things are happening: He's being horribly mismanaged by his agent(s) who believe he will get a near-A-Rod type deal or teams are not offering what he wants. The way he's rejecting offers, it seems almost a 50/50 shot that he will have to settle to play in Montreal starting in May when the arbitration period ends. I certainly wouldn't complain. Imagine a lineup with Vidro, Cabrera, Wilkerson, Everett, Batista, Guerrero and Nick Johnson? That would be awesome. Heck, it looks good without Vlad.

[Jedi Master Carr]

He will probably have to accept a one year deal from somebody maybe the Marlins who are talking to him. I think his agent overpriced him which is why the Yankees balked at him. I think they tried to get close to 20 million a year from them. The Orioles at one time were offering over 10 but since they signed Tejada and Lopez they have cooled their offers. Not sure what the Mets offered.

[JMK]

This is by no means official info, but from what I can gather, this is what other teams have offered Vlad:

- Mets say they offered 3 years at $12.5 mil a year
- Tigers offered 5 years at $13 mil a year
- Marlins offered $13 mil for one year
- NYM offered 3 years at $13 mil a year
- Orioles offered 5 years, 67.5 mil overall (rejected)
- NYY offered 5 years, $75 mil (rejected)
- Dodgers supposed to have offered 4+ years at $13 mil or less a
season (rejected)
- Expos offer was 5 years, 75 million, same as the Yankees.

EDIT: Just listening to ESPN radio and the reason Vlad has rejected the Mets is to sign with the Anaheim Angels!

Assuming this report is true, they'll have a lineup
something like this:

Erstad (Could he play first base? Spiezio is out and they need a replacement)
Eckstein SS
Guerrero RF
Anderson CF
Glaus 3B
Guillen LF
Salmon DH
Molina C
Kennedy 2B

Plus a rotation of Colon, Washburn, Escobar, Ortiz, and I guess Sele. Plus one of the best bullpens in baseball (Percival, Donnelly, K-Rod, Weber, etc.). This is a heck of a ballclub, and they could overtake Oakland and Seattle in that division IMO. What an off season the Angels are having. I can't complain about this if it's true. He's not going to come to Montreal and get booed and burn my team. I hope he signs in the AL. AL west is even better.

[JMK]

Clemens joins the Astros. Anyone surprised? ;)

Imagine when the Astros face the Cubs for a 3 game set in September with the division title on the line and you get this for 2 of the games: Clemens vs Wood and Pettitte vs Prior. That would be heaven for ball fans!

[Jedieb]

I don't think Clemens should take any heat for coming back. This wasn't a Jordan-like retirement. I think Roger found a unique situation and just couldn't resist. At home, and a chance to pitch with one of his best friends, who could turn that down? This is bad news for the Cubs. The Astros have always come up short in the post season, Petite and Clemens just may be what they needed to finally break through.

[JMK]

Of course there's sour grapes in NY now over this, but he never really officially retired from the Yankees. To me he really wanted out of NY and this only became more evident to me as pitchers kept leaving. I didn't see any reason why he should retire. He's still one of the top 15 pitchers in all of baseball, top 7 or higher when he's on his game. He could do this easily for another couple seasons.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think this means the Cubs have to sign Pudge Rodriguez to counter this move. It would be the best move they could make right now.

[JediBoricua]

I don't know about you guys, but the way this offseason has moved, opening day can't get fast enough!

At first I thought it was going to be a big blowout between the Yankees and Red Sox, leaving the rest of the league on the background, but after the past month as you look around the league we see things have begun to stabilize and many teams are serious about winning.

What a banquet for fans 2004's gonna be!

[JMK]

Ok boys, time to lay down the bets. Who is going to be the first team to throw at Roger when he's at bat?

I think his age will help his legacy. If he ends up having a sub par year people will point to the fact that he's and old man, he pitching for an NL team for the first time and he's had to take a regular turn at bat for the first time in his career, all things that can be a shock to a pitcher. I wonder how all that will affect him.

Does anyone think Anaheim will now be a serious contender in the AL west now? I think they've now surpassed the Mariners and are right behind the A's. That division is going to be a tough one now, but one thing is for certain: The Rangers will be 30 games out of first by the all star break. :lol

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think they are better than the A's. The A's won't make the playoff IMO they have lost too many people. They lost three guys at least (Tejada, Foulke and Guillen). They also traded their best catcher and Tereance Long away for hardly anything. They now have no offense and no closer (Dye stinks at least he did last year). I say the Angels win the west and they are the only team from the west to make the playoffs.

[Jedieb]

I'm just wondering which of these teams is going to flop. You know at least one of these teams is going to have their big free agency moves fizzle on them. As much as I like Pettite and Clemens, I don't think they're locks for 34 wins.

Did anyone hear about the Cubs possibly getting Maddox? Throwing Maddox into a rotation that already has Prior and Wood could make them the deepest rotation in baseball.

[JMK]

And you know with the Clemens signing they're going to try harder to get that deep rotation.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I've heard talk about it before but I thought he wanted to play on the west coast? Although he hasn't gotten any offers from the Dodgers and Giants and the Padres said they were going after any big players.

[JMK]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/2004/01/25/325142-ap.html

So it looks to me as though the deal is dead. At least for this year. I don't see the point of this announcement unless it's all more smoke and mirrors. I'd to see how Red Sox apologist Peter Gammons explains this! :lol

[JMK]

http://www.canada.com/montreal/story.asp?id=647BE4A9-2147-40E4-8D7C-6BF5DB17D0DD

It seems that MLB will do anything to reduce attendance figures
and prove Montreal unworthy to host a major league team. This really drives around the bend. :mad

[Jedi Master Carr]

It looks the Expos will be moving to Washington in the near future, sorry Kyle.

[JMK]

Maybe I'm too involved with the team, but this is how I feel about the whole thing: You know when you have a terminally ill relative, and you know that someday soon they are going to pass on? And when they do you're still not ready for the shock and sadness? Well I know what that feels like and the Expos being ripped away feels much the same way to me. I know it's coming, but when the announcement is made and the team moves on, the loss will be almost unbearable to me. :thumbdown

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am sorry yes it does suck, of course the previous ownership is too blame, and I think MLB can't see how to fix it in Montreal so they just rather move the team to a big market in Northern Virgina.

[JMK]

I wish they would just allow people here to work it out and give the fans here a reason to believe there's going to be stability and something to look forward to. Anyone who thinks there aren't fans here are complete fools for believing the equally foolish columnists and talking heads. In the late 70's & early 80's as well as the early 90's when the Expos had good stable teams they packed the Olympic Stadium. From 1977 to 1981 the lowest attendance was 1.4 million and peaked at 2.2 million in 1980. They drew 1.5 million in 1981 in only 52 home games because of the strike. Ever since the Bronfman family gave up the team there has been overwhelming uncertainty and doom for baseball fans here. But it seems like fans here who try to stick up for baseball here are just pissing in the wind.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Doesn't help you can't even watch the games on TV any more.

[JMK]

Some home games have been televised over the past couple seasons after many years of not having any on TV here. When they are on the ratings are excellent and I do everything in my power to make myself available to watch them. The biggest problem is that when the CBC got out of baseball no one picked them up and all of Canada's sports networks decided to promote the Blue Jays instead because of the much larger potential audience in Toronto. Of course it didn't hurt them that they had won 2 consecutive World Series'.

[Doc Milo]

I just heard this today on ESPN and then again on the radio stations here in NY. It seems that ARod may, indeed, be switching teams this year. Rumor has it that the Rangers and close to a deal with the ...... Yankees to send ARod to NY for Soriano and a minor leaguer. The Rangers would also take on some of ARod's contract. ARod would then move to third, keeping Jeter at Short, and the Yanks would possibly go with prospect Eric Almonte as their second baseman....

I know this deal would really anger both Mets fans and Red Sox fans. Mets fans because they could have had ARod when he was a free agent and their management dropped the ball; Red Sox fans because of the deal that died earlier this offseason...

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think this deal will fall apart too. Jayson Stark seems to think it probably won't work out. I be surprised if they do this Yankees payroll would be over 200 million I think that would eventually criple the yankees with the luxury tax.

[JMK]

I don't know if anything can cripple the Yankees. If recent history is any indicator, and it is, if Steinbrenner wants something, he gets it. Did anyone seriously think the Yankees were going to go into the season with (what's his name) at third? No way, but I don't see ARod switching to 3rd base, that will be the only thing that kills the deal IMO. Jeter and Arod could go down as the best shortstops ever, why would one of them all of a sudden move over to third and jeopardize their legacy?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well it could blow up in their face actually this could destroy them if their is fights, Just beause you add talent it doesn't mean anything (look at the Lakers). I am still hoping the Player Associantion blocks it, it is my only hope for this deal not happening now.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Well it could blow up in their face actually this could destroy them if their is fights, Just beause you add talent it doesn't mean anything (look at the Lakers). I am still hoping the Player Associantion blocks it, it is my only hope for this deal not happening now.


I think that's a bit of wishful thinking on the part of a Red Sox fan. ;)


A-Rod and Jeter seem to have gotten along well, and if those two can handle the situation professionally, then the rest of the team will as well.

Have to admit, the Yankees lineup will be as scary as it's ever been since their resurgence in the mid 90's.




Not that anyone here really cares, but the Cubs are creeping closer to getting Maddox back. They increased their offer, and Maddox has said he'll have a decision by early this week.

[JMK]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Well it could blow up in their face actually this could destroy them if their is fights, Just beause you add talent it doesn't mean anything (look at the Lakers). I am still hoping the Player Associantion blocks it, it is my only hope for this deal not happening now.

lol, I'm a Sox fan too, but in how many ways does the above also apply to the Red Sox? Just because they've added talent doesn't mean it will pan out for them. And if Jeter and ARod will bicker about things, you can bet your bottom dollar that Pedro and Schilling will duke it out as well. Both ARod and Jeter have more professionalism and class in their pinkies than Pedro has in his whole body. It pains me to say that, but it's true. I also don't think the players association will block this. If Georgie wants it done, he will make sure the players will approve it. To me the only thing that can save this deal (I mentioned it earlier) is if neither Rodriguez or Jeter want to tarnish their career by moving to 3rd base. What if they stink at the position? (I know, unlikely seeing as though they're both shortstops, but it's possible). If this goes through it will be a MAJOR coup for the Yankees and they head STRAIGHT back to the head of the class and everyone is left behind. But that's why they play the games, just because they will have the best team on paper won't mean they will automatically win. The Lakers and especially the N.Y. Rangers are total proof of that.

[JMK]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=1735959

All that is needed is Selig's approval. This deal is all but done, thus concluding the single biggest deal in baseball history.

Now what does Red Sox nation do to talk themselves out of this? This is devastating to Sox fans, more psychologically than actually on the field. It's not like the Yankees gave up nothing for A-Rod.

I guess now Red Sox fans have to tell themselves that pitching is what really wins championchips because their rotation is proven whereas the Yankees' rotation is filled with question marks. Just don't have this conversation with Braves fans. They had the best pitching throughout the 90's and don't have many W.S. rings to show for it. ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well the Braves pitching didn't show up in the WS. Still they went to 4 WS that is a lot for any team. I do think Pitching is more important look at the Marlins and Angels they both won because of their pitching. Although watch another you upstart team win the WS.

Also I am not devistated I am more pissed. This is why Baseball should have a salary cap. One team shouldn't get all the best players it is insane. That is why I swear the owners should have used replacements back in 94 they should have broke the Union like the NFL did in 87 (which is the reason why there is parity in the NFL today) I rather see NFL parity than this.

[JMK]

It's so funny, I was ok up until now, but the Sox were playing the very same game the Yankees do every year - Get everyone on your roster before your rival does. I agree, MLB needs a real cap and much better revenue sharing.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Too bad the Players Union is so powerful. Too powerful to me look at the steroids thing. If they don't watch they are going to ruin the game.

[Jedieb]

Giambi at first, Jeter at short, and A-Rod at third... The Evil Empire lives!!! >D

[JMK]

Matsui to bat 8th? Holy smokes...
If the Yankees don't have all stars at every position in the mid season classic I'll be surprised...

If any owners complain about this they should be jailed. They had the opportunity to fix this a couple years ago but instead they came up with the 'luxury tax'. Oooooooooooh! Good work guys! Morons.

[Figrin D'an]

Consider, too, that the only likely way that this all gets addressed again by the owners if if the Yankees win the World Series about 3 consecutive times starting this season. If not, it'll be left alone.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah you are right Fig. It could still blow up there are a lot of egos on this team. Shettfield, Brown for example those two guys are the two biggest jerks in the sport, Just ask the Dodger players about them. Also the Yankees pitching staff is full of question marks if there pitching struggles this year they will not go to the WS I guarentee that.

[Jedieb]

PTI just brought up something about the whole A-Rod deal that we haven't mentioned. If Aaron F. Boone doesn't blow out his knee, then the Yankees probably don't go after A-Rod. Looks like Boone did it to you again Sox fans. :evil

[JediBoricua]

Carr your bleeding through the wound!

I hate the disparity in baseball, but whenever the Yankees win is good for baseball, next season has just gotten even better!

Anyway, you can't complain about the salary cap thing, the Sox only needed to spend 16 million more than what they offered, they totally fumbled the deal, and now the Yankees beat them again.

The BAMBINO LIVES!

(and I'm not even a Yankee fan, well sort of)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't think the Yankees winning is good for baseball. Most people in the U.S hate the Yankees there are more yankee haters than their are yankee fans that is a fact.

[JMK]

ESPN radio is reporting that Maddux is extremely close to signing with....The New York Yankees!
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1736923
I'm going to puke. This is utterly ridiculous. These aren't baseball players. They are mercenaries. Nothing more.

[CMJ]

The Yankees can go to hell.....

This will make victory in September sweeter.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Actually the GM said it is not true. I don't see Maddux going the AL his ERA will sky rocket. I still bet he shocks everybody and signs with the Dodgers.

[jjwr]

I don't think A-Rod could have gone to a better team.

I can't wait to see this team implode through-out the year. Baseball players more than any other pro athletes are babies, this is not a team, this is a fantasy team being built by George.

There is no chemistry, there will be friction between Jeter & A-Rod.

Lets see, if Jeter starts slumping again this year during the regular season, has multipe defensive gaffs again think he'll feel any pressure from the best short stop in the game playing 3rd? The Yankees could easily swing a mid-season trade to pick up another 3rd baseman and move A-Rod to Shortstop without missing a beat. Pressure all the way around.

What will be even more funny is watching this team lose the World Series again(or not even get there) and watching George throw a fit that his 200 Million payroll couldn't do it.

Could the Red Sox have gotten A-Rod? Of Course they could have, but unlike the Yankee's they're not throwing money away needlessly to the luxury tax. Considering the Yankee's were 60ish Million ahead of the Sox last year and came within one swing of losing it all and the Sox were having the better off-season by far of course the Sox wouldn't reach and over-react by blowing their budget. Instead the Yankees did it.

With Luxury tax this is going to be a 270ish Million Payroll, roughly twice what the Luxury tax limit is.

As Bill Simmons from ESPN Page 2 would say, cheering for the Yankees is like cheering for the house in Vegas.

[JMK]

The only hope any team not called the Yankees has now is hoping that the Yankees get saddled with injuries to their old mercenaries and that controversy rips them apart. With A-Rod and Jeter sharing the same side of the infield it's either going to be lights out for everyone, or as soon as errors begin, 'Put Jeter back at short' will be the party line. Then if A-Rod starts making mistakes at 3rd it will be 'Well A-Rod isn't playing his natural position!!'. IMO, the best move for the Yankees would be to put Jeter at 2nd, let A-Rod play short and keep looking for a 3rd baseman. Not that I want to the Yankees to keep hiring mercenaries but you know George isn't done buying.


Actually the GM said it is not true. I don't see Maddux going the AL his ERA will sky rocket.
Yeah, and A-Rod was also made the captain of the Rangers, remember? How much validity did that ultimately have? None. GM's make stupid moves (such as that) and deny rumors all the time. If Georgie offers Maddux enough he'll go over there without a peep. His e.r.a. may skyrocket, but with the team around him he could have a 20 win season easily. Maybe 25-30 wins if he stays healthy and the Yankees do as well as projected.


I can't wait to see this team implode through-out the year. Baseball players more than any other pro athletes are babies, this is not a team, this is a fantasy team being built by George.
Couldn't agree more. I don't know how fans of this team can get behind this method of building a team? It's just silly for people to think that this is a team in a true sports-like sense. These are all people who are as greedy as it gets and want to gravy train each other's success to a ring. Once the mission is accomplished (if they win) half of them will split...or retire. They aren't there because they want to be in pinstripes, they aren't there for the fans. I would go so far as to say that any fan who gets attached to this roster is seriously deluded and I'd like to try whatever drugs they're on.

The Yankees could easily swing a mid-season trade to pick up another 3rd baseman and move A-Rod to Shortstop without missing a beat.
You'd think this would be true, but I think that other teams will be anxious to let the Yankees sink or swim with this team. If the Yanks are begging to make a deal, who would they have to trade? They only have high priced mercenaries on their roster, and they would only want a star player in return. Who would want to take on a bloated Yankee contract? Do they even have a farm team anymore? I think the Yankees may be handcuffing themselves.

[JediBoricua]

I only say that it's good for baseball that the Yankees win, or throw as much money as possible to achieve said goal, because look at all the excitement this has generated. Hate the Yankees? So what, your going to watch every game hoping for them to plummet (which could happen). The 19 games between the Sox and the Yanks will get huge ratings, huge ratings are good for baseball!

I too dislike the disparity in baseball, and I would happily advocate for a NFL-like system, but since that doesn't exist, I just have to sit comfortable and enjoy the ride.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I believe Cashman he wouldn't say they had no interest if they had interest, what he would do is say no comment. From what I have heard Maddux is deciding between the Cubs and Dodgers, those two teams make more sense to him. He won't go the AL because his numbers would plummet and he knows that.

[jjwr]

You'd think this would be true, but I think that other teams will be anxious to let the Yankees sink or swim with this team. If the Yanks are begging to make a deal, who would they have to trade? They only have high priced mercenaries on their roster, and they would only want a star player in return. Who would want to take on a bloated Yankee contract? Do they even have a farm team anymore? I think the Yankees may be handcuffing themselves.

You would think this would be true but teams keep making deals with the Yankee's, even during the stretch run last year they kept picking up players.

The Owners need to realize its bad for the game and to stop feeding the beast, until they actually do so though I won't put anything past George and will assume he can pretty much get any player within reason.

What the Yankee's are doing is bad for baseball, it gets headlines and people talk about and those 19 games against the Sox are good but what about the other 2,000+ish games? So many games are pointless now as they're between teams who are eliminated from contention on opening day. If this keeps up its only going to get worse and all of these other teams are going to get smaller and smaller attendance.

[JMK]

The only thing I disagree with is when the Pittsburghs, Cincinnatis and even the Montreals start crying foul. No team in the NL is affected on field by this deal, or any deal the Yankees make. In fact, it may help NL teams if the Yankees act as a black hole and suck in all the talent.

I won't be watching Yankee games, even if they come in. All Star games are never really that good, at least not any more. :p

[jjwr]

All-Star games are a bit of a joke anyways, with the coach picking the subs. They were saying how the Yankee's have 17 players who were All-Stars, well I'm sure about half of those were awarded by Torre during their run, some definite BS appointments if I recall correctly.

[Doc Milo]

It's a misnomer to think that the Arod signing "busts" the Yankees budget. If you factor in what Texas is paying Arod to play for the Yankees, factor in the subtraction of Soriano's money, factor in the subtraction of Aaron Boone's money (the Yankees are releasing him only having to pay a fraction of the money owed him) and it turns out that the Yankees got Arod for a little under a million more dollars added to this year's payroll than before the signing of Arod.

To hear all the Boston fans (and Mets fans here in NY) crying that this is bad for baseball is funny. It may be bad for baseball, but the Manny for Arod move wasn't? The Boston GM actually called Selig before Selig's decision trying to get him to veto the trade citing the Best Interests of Baseball. That Selig tried his hardest to make the Manny for Arod deal go through tied his hands in the manner. He couldn't possibly say one trade was good for baseball and this one isn't.

Fact is, this trade helps Texas immensely. In that manner, it can actually be beneficial to "parity." It frees up money Texas did not have to help them build a team. They get a darn good player in return at a fraction of the price. Yes, the Yankees got Arod, but if you really analyze that, are they truely that much better off with Arod than Soriano? Offensively, the only thing Arod brings to the table is less strikeouts. Soriano will most likely hit 50 homers with Texas and bat over .300, and, depending on the lineup around him, get close to 100 RBI. Is Arod going to do so much better with the Yankees?

This helps the Yankees defense. Sure. Cairo is better defensively at 2nd than Soriano was. But ... how good will Arod be at third. His atleticism suggests he should adjust well, but he is still an uncertain commodity.

I honestly don't think the Yankees are that much better with Arod than they were with Soriano. Just more expensive. The last two years have proven that you don't have to have the highest payroll to win the World Series.

This move might guarantee the Yankees the a playoff berth. But that was pretty much a guarantee anyway. It might mean a well over 100 win season. But ... it guarantees them nothing come playoff time. During the year, you can win 100 + games with the lineup the Yankees have outscoring the opposition. But once you get to the playoffs, you have to pitch to win. And right now, Boston (as much as it pains me to say it) has the better pitching staff. Pedro, Schilling, Lowe can make a five or seven game series seem very short.

I'm all for parity. What I'm not for is sacrificing excellence for mediocrity in order to achieve it. The NFLs parity, IMHO, does just that. There are no "great" teams anymore. There are good and mediocre teams battling for spots in the playoffs, and then there is a crapshoot after that....

That would be bad for baseball as well.

A salary cap might help baseball, but there also has to be a salary floor, and having one may eliminate teams from the league -- or force them to move -- if they can't meet the minimum. A salary cap without a floor will not work. It will have the effect of lowering salaries of high paid players, yes, and that may be a good thing, but you'd still have the teams that won't spend money, and teams that will max out the cap... There will still not be parity.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I disagree with you though, why is it that the NFL is the most popular pro sport? It is because of parity every team has a chance which fans like. It is one reason why the NFL be the top pro sport for a long time.

[Doc Milo]

The only reason the NFL is the most popular pro sport is because of gambling. If you take gambling out of the equation, the NFL would have a hard time making that claim. I know a lot of football fans. I work in an OTB that is located in a bar. I see gamblers, and I see sports fans. You'd be hardpressed on any given sunday to find a fan of any particular NFL team. Most of the fans in the bar that come to watch football games are only interested in the games because they either have money on a particular game, or they are in the office pool, or some other pool. If you take gambling out of sports, Baseball will have more fans than football, easily. It has nothing to do with parity.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Doc Milo
The only reason the NFL is the most popular pro sport is because of gambling. If you take gambling out of the equation, the NFL would have a hard time making that claim. I know a lot of football fans. I work in an OTB that is located in a bar. I see gamblers, and I see sports fans. You'd be hardpressed on any given sunday to find a fan of any particular NFL team. Most of the fans in the bar that come to watch football games are only interested in the games because they either have money on a particular game, or they are in the office pool, or some other pool. If you take gambling out of sports, Baseball will have more fans than football, easily. It has nothing to do with parity.


I disagree with that all but completely. Gambling contributes to a point, but not nearly as much as you are crediting to it. The NFL is popular because of marketing. It's done a great job of selling it's product to the public.

Marketing can mean everything in sports. NASCAR is the prime example. There are far superior forms of auto racing, but NASCAR has the fastest growing fanbase. Why? Marketing.


Take gambling out of the picture, and baseball will still lose fans. MLB's business model doesn't work in the today's world. Until they fundamentally change it, they'll continue to have trouble supporting the number of teams in the league.

[CMJ]

Yeah, I agree Figrin. In the Northeast baseball is king..and in various other pockets of the country you have strongholds for basketball and hockey, but football is the major sport in the USA. It's not about gambling.

If that was the case horseracing never would've fallen off.

[Doc Milo]

Maybe it's because I'm in the Northeast, but around here, the majority of those interested in football are not interested in the Giants or Jets. Yes, there are the hardcore Jets and Giants fans --and they are loyal to their team, but there are not as many of those as there are Yankees or Mets fans running around NY. The majority of the football fans in NY are only interested in the sport because they have money on the games. Gambling is a big part of the picture, at least here -- but, of course, it's not the only part of the picture. Yes, marketing is a big part of the picture as well. But parity is not. I think the NFLs "parity" has hurt it as a sport (but not as a gambling interest...) because there is a lot of mediocrity. There aren't those great teams anymore that everyone loves or everyone hates. Everyone has a chance to win. Great! But teams don't have to become great anymore to win. A mediocre team doesn't have to do much to win it all. All they have to do is wait until the "good" teams ahead of them to lose players due to the cap and bring those teams down to their mediocre level. Then they sign one guy that makes the difference between the two mediocre teams, and they start to win. That is not parity. Not the kind I would like to see. The kind of parity I would like to see is the kind where teams compete to become great instead of waiting for the great teams to be brought down to their level.

For instance, the Mets in 2000 had a chance for Arod. But they made up some ludicrous stroy that Arod wanted all these little extras. All because they didn't want to admit that they didn't go after him because they thought he was too expensive. Why wouldn't they want to admit that? Because they could have afforded him. And in a place like NY, all it takes is a bit of vision to parlay the investment in Arod into something big -- something that would have rivaled the Yankees.

The Mets have more fans in NY than the Yankees. NY is a national league town. It always has been. If the Mets in 2000 would have made the investment in Arod -- and believe me, he would have signed for less than he got from Texas, for the Mets were his "childhood team" -- they would have been able to market Arod and Piazza in the same lineup. When their contract with MSG was up, they would then be in posistion to create their own Network just as the Yankees have done with YES, building everything around Arod. They would have shown to be going in ther right direction. The Mets were a good team back then (remember, they went to the WS in 2000) and they would have only been better. If they would have just invested the money in keeping some of their players, and getting Arod. In the long run, the investment would have paid for itself, plus some.

Now, to quote everyone's favorite Emperor, they have "paid the price for their lack of vision."

The Mets, though, are notorious for making bad trades -- and not being able to pull the trigger on anything of significance. It has nothing to do with inability to pay. The Mets have the market. They just have to tap into it. And they have no idea how.

Some teams have a legitimate gripe when they cray about "parity" and not being able to compete. Some teams do not (Boston and the Mets, for two) and they cry anyway.

And remember -- the past two seasons WS winners have not been among the highest payrolls . . .

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL CMJ you have a point there. The same could be said about Boxing Gambling is its bread and butter. I think its also the fact that Football is a faster sport and is more made for TV. ESPN did an article on it and TV, labor peace, and parity where three of the reasons I can't remember the others.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I disagree with you there. The Patriots are close to a dynasty, IMO they won 2 out of the last 3 years to me that is impressive.

[Doc Milo]

And the majority of the Yankees World Championships came in an era before free agency, before this "system" was in place. They had dynasties back then. And there were teams back then that had no shot, year in and year out.

I'm not sure the ability to "buy" players has much to do with who wins year in and year out.

And, with parity, you lose the "loveable underdog." No one becomes an underdog because everyone has an equal chance to win.

Where is rooting for David to slay Goliath?

I think that is a lot to lose, as well.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Doc Milo
And, with parity, you lose the "loveable underdog." No one becomes an underdog because everyone has an equal chance to win.



Not really. Look at the Carolina Panthers this year. Despite their amazingly successful regular season (when compared to the previous two), they were an underdog nearly all the way throught the playoffs. They garnered a lot of fans because of this, and because of the way they played (workman-like, run the ball, hit the big play when it's open, and play great defense). And it came close to getting them the Lombardi Trophy.

One of the great aspects of the NFL in recent seasons has been wondering, headed into each season, who the big surprise team will be. It generates excitement, because it could be any team. Fans can actually say, "This could be the year," and have a legit reason to believe it.


Parity isn't parity in the dictionary sense. It's just about shrinking the disparity between teams in a league. In the NFL, the disparity is present, but it's not very large. In baseball, the disparity is huge. That's the difference.

[CMJ]

I'd say the Patriots were in the same position just a few seasons ago. The Rams a few years before that. I agree Figrin.

I'm not even an NFL guy, but the parity issue is definitly what's made the league the King of American sports.

[Figrin D'an]

Back to baseball for a moment...

The AP and ESPN are reporting that Greg Maddox has reached a deal with the Cubs. 3 years, $24 million.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1737634

[Doc Milo]

Maybe that's true, CMJ. Maybe I'm wrong about it. But it seems to me that parity wasn't achieved by making the bad teams better, but by making the better teams worse. I have a fundamental, philosophical problem with that.

Can anyone argue that the recent Superbowl Champions could beat the dynasties of the past, the great Cowboys, 49er, or Steeler teams? I don't think they come even close to being as good as those teams. Because parity has made it that you don't have to be a great team to win the Superbowl -- nor do you have to be a lucky underdog who beats a great team.

It's what's turned me off of football...

[Jedi Master Carr]

Cool I guess the Dodgers never gave him a serious offer. I knew that Yankee thing was full of crap. The Cubs makes more sense for him.

[JMK]

And remember -- the past two seasons WS winners have not been among the highest payrolls . . .

That's true, the Angels and Marlins have proven that. BUT the problem with this Yankee spending spree is that it almost guarantees that many many fans will tune out before the season even begins. If they perceive that they don't have a chance, that perception becomes reality until september and their team is the surprise of the year. How would you like to be a Devil Ray, Blue Jay or Oriole fan right about now? They've each made a few significant moves, but then the Yankees out do them tenfold.

The Yankees luxury tax for this season will be nearly twice some payrolls. That makes it simply too lopsided for any fan who isn't a die hard to root for and follow their team.

[JMK]

Wood.
Prior.
Clement.
Zambrano.

Maddux???

That is probably the best rotation I've ever seen. If this works out for the Cubs, then they can almost write themselves WS ticket right now.

[jjwr]

Cubs are loaded, they've built a very solid team there.

Re: Parity in the NFL

I don't think you can reasonably argue that the Parity in the NFL isn't a part of its big success. With a few games to go this past season I think over half of the League had a chance at the playoffs.

You see a lot of 8-8 type records and assume that they're bad teams and bad games. I don't know if that could be more wrong. With all of these teams close to each other games came down to the wire, I think there was a record # of overtime games this year. There were some clunkers but a lot of real gems this year.

Everyyear a team comes out of the woodwork and rises to the top of the league while perennial winners fall behind(Oakland and Tampa this year), unless your a fan of the Cardinals or Lions you've got hope all season long. Even the Bengals made a run at the playoffs this year.

Its exciting, everyone is in it, and all the games mean something.

One of the problems with baseball is they play like, 2000 games spread over 4 years for a single season.

Obviously a exaggeration but the season is so fricken long its not even funny. Just skip to August and get to the good stuff. Whats worse is by July in a uber long season half the teams are already out of it, some teams are down by 20ish games by that point. Hard to wonder why fans are losing interest.

Re: Dynasties

Pats aren't there yet, they've had a great few years, if they had made the playoffs last year(though they were darn close) the argument would be better. This year will be key, they need to at least reach the 2nd round of the playoffs to get the mystique of a continuous good team, a 1st rd loss or playoff miss won't cut it. If they make the Superbowl again then the talk will be for real(win or lose).

As for the Pats beating the great teams of yore? Thats the problem with sports today, all of the old teams are held in great awe due to age and reflection. I'll use the Pats as a example, in a league of Parity this is the team thats defying it, won 15 straight games! I'd put them up against any of those other teams and give them a good chance to walk away a winner.

[JMK]

And what about John Henry calling for a salary cap in the aftermath of the A Rod deal? I don't deny that a salary cap (and floor) is necessary for all pro sports, but coming from him at this point, is pathetic. What a hypocritical thing to say. It sounds like sour grapes to me. He lost, his rival checkmated him and now he's going on a colossal binge of outrageous whining. Like I said, I do agree with him in that a cap is needed, but coming from this guy, who likes to spend freely as well is just plain pathetic. Afterall, isn't this the guy who gave Manny 20 million a year?

[JediBoricua]

Anyone seen the press statement released by Steinbrenner about Henry's whinning?

Instant Classic!


Steinbrenner quickly responded, saying: "We understand that John Henry must be embarrassed, frustrated and disappointed by his failure in this transaction."


"Unlike the Yankees, he chose not to go the extra distance for his fans in Boston," Steinbrenner said of Henry. "It is understandable, but wrong that he would try to deflect the accountability for his mistakes on to others and to a system for which he voted in favor. It is time to get on with life and forget the sour grapes."

GOLD! PURE GOLD!

Can't wait for the spring.

[JMK]

Translation: "He's a hypocritical, tight wad sore loser."

[jjwr]

Its the owners fault to begin with for not pushing a Salary Cap through, now that its being severly abused(and its the Yankee's) he's hopping mad.

There is a difference though, the deal the Red Sox were trying to make would have kept them under the luxury tax threshhold, if they had just wanted to acquire A-Rod I'm sure they could have.

Whereas the Yankee's just basically threw another $10 million or so onto their roster without caring.

The Salary Cap statement should have been made, just not by him. A small market team in the NL would have been the best owner to make the comment, coming from the Red Sox owner right after the Yankee's sign him is just stupid.

[JMK]

Exactly, it just rings hollow after Henry lost the A-Rod battle. You know, the only good thing I can say about Steinbrenner about his mad spending is at least he wants to win. He needs to win. He could pocket the money for himself but he puts it back on the field, which in one school of thought is commendable, but on the other hand, they are just so far gone out of whack that it doesn't make sense anymore. And it's too late to do anything. If they made a hard cap, with people like George around it wouldn't be any lower than 150 million, which is still completely nuts. How would you force George to slash $50 million in payroll? You can't, so the owners are stuck with this mess.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well its too late for a salary cap anyway the player association would never go for it. At this point as I said they would have had to used replacements back in 94 and destroyed the Union like the NFL did in 87.

[Doc Milo]

Its the owners fault to begin with for not pushing a Salary Cap through, now that its being severly abused(and its the Yankee's) he's hopping mad.

As Jedi Master Carr said, it's actually it's the players' fault. Their union would never allow a CBA to go through that has a salary cap, because it would have the effect of decreasing player salaries. In no way would it not do so. Now, I'm personally in favor of a salary cap (as long as there is also a minimum payroll) and could care less if it has the effect of decreasing player salary. But that is something the union would never allow, and it would take breaking the union, which won't be done without severly hurting the game itself.


There is a difference though, the deal the Red Sox were trying to make would have kept them under the luxury tax threshhold, if they had just wanted to acquire A-Rod I'm sure they could have.

Whereas the Yankee's just basically threw another $10 million or so onto their roster without caring.

The Yankees did not add another $10 million onto their payroll for the coming year. This is a misnomer, and needs to be corrected. With the subtraction of players salaries that this allowed the Yankees to make (subtracting Soriano's salary, subtracting Boone's salary (Boone was injured in violation of his contract, and was thus released with only recieving less than a million in severence) this deal added $750,000 to the Yankees payroll for the coming year. This was reported in all of the NY newspapers and on ESPN radio.

Boston tried to have A-Rod devalue his contract, which is why the Union nixed the trade. I personally believe if a player wants to devalue his contract, that should be his right. The union then made an offer to devalue A-Rod's contract by $12 million rather than by $32 million if A-Rod could use the Red Sox logo in any advertising that came his way, and Boston refused.

The Red Sox could have had A-Rod but were too cheap to pull the trigger. And now they want to cry that there should be a salary cap. Like JMK said, anyone can say what they want about Stienbrenner, but this cannot be taken away from him: He wants to win, and he puts his money where his desire is. Most owners in this game, making the money the Yankees do, would stick the money in their pockets rather than invest it right back into their team in an all-out attempt to win. This team isn't about profit for him. If it was, he'd be putting all that money into his pocket. Instead, he invests it back into his team.

What happens to the millions of dollars he gives to revenue sharing teams (where the Luxury tax is distributed)? If I were him, I'd be pissed that all those teams do is stick the money in their pockets instead of using that money to go out and get a pitcher or position player. The reason why the revenue sharing doesn't work is because there is nothing that makes it mandatory for the team recieving money to put the money back into his team. I think that it should be mandatory that any team that recieves revenue sharing should have his payroll increased by at least 80% of the money recieved.

[jjwr]

The owners can do it, but they probably won't. They haven't stood up to the players union in a long time, salaries are out of control, they all whine how they can't compete but won't take the chance of taking the big risk and fixing the game for good.

What I find funny is the Red tried to avoid something the Yankee's stepped right into. Jeter isn't exactly spectacular at Shortstop, regardless of all their face time right now this will become a issue during the year and could hurt the team. The way the Red Sox tried to deal was to replace Nomar and avoid the issue, rather than just throw another Fantasy Player onto the roster.

Could they have had him? Sure but it could cause all sorts of problems, I personally can't wait to see it come crashing down.

The Salary Cap needs to work both ways, some owners are way too tight-fisted. It needs a top and a bottom. The Red Sox have a projected salary of 125 Million and I think they're second, the Red Sox and every other team can do it for that price or less so to expect the Yankee's to lower their Payroll to that level isn't out of the question. George would have to go back to his mid/late 90's model of actually building a "team" rather than playing Fantasy Baseball.

Great owner, yes you can't doubt it. He plays the system the way its built and takes advantage of it. You can't fault him for that. That doesn't make it right though.

He took a huge hit last year in luxury tax and will take another huge one this year. If the Yankee's don't win this year he will have forked over something along the lines of 120ish million in luxury tax alone for nothing. I don't care how much money you have, wasting 120 Million is going to bother you.

As for the luxury tax #'s, I don't know exactly how thats shared out, if it goes evenly its only a few million per team, but you add that into the revenue sharing and I'm sure each team gets enough to add in at least one solid player. The League really needs to force every team to be competitive, unless they want the perception of a elite upper echelon of teams that are able to spending 180 million a year while the rest of the league languishes.

[JMK]

I agree. The owners need to take the good of the game into account and lock the players out. But they won't because too many of them have brand new ballparks to pay for and fill. That won't happen with this greedy lot.

[Doc Milo]

On the Jeter/A-Rod potential problems. I don't think they'll occur on the field. Sure, when there is an error committed by either of them, you'll have the fans clamoring on talk radio the next day about how A-Rod should be at short and Jeter should move to second or some such.

But in truth, the difference defensively isn't all that great between the two. Jeter is not a total hack at short. He has less range than A-Rod, yes. But he's better on going back on the ball hit into short left/center. His range will be helped by A-Rod playing third, because, if A-Rod makes the adjustment well, and I don't see why he shouldn't be able to, he is the more gifted athlete of the two, and thus has a better chance of making that adjustment better -- then Jeter can "cheat" toward second knowing the third-base side is "covered."

People are making Jeter out to be some sort of premadonna, but he's done nothing, in all his years as a Yankee, to earn that kind of reputation. If anything, he's always come across as a team-first player. A-Rod, I don't know about, but I've never heard of him being a difficult player either. I don't foresee this being a problem.

This deal, also, no one talks about, is good for Texas. It frees up money and gives them a young player to either build around or trade to fill their glaring needs....

[jjwr]

Jeter is definetly a team player, but as people have been saying for years he's a below average short-stop, the guy is awesome in the clutch & the playoffs but as a shortstop he's not exactly A-Rod.

The problems will come if, and its a big if, the Yankee's falter and Jeter is part of the problem defensivly. Add in the pressure of NYC and George pulling some crap with the team and who knows what will happen.

Texas got a huge break, Soriano could be a great player for them for a while and they've now got the money to get some pitchers. They probably won't contend this year but in the next few years they should definetly show an improvement.

[Jedieb]

The Luxury Tax was a step in the right direction. It's a sad comment on MLB's history of labor relations that Selig actually accomplished something by avoiding a work stoppage with this latest labor agreement. Hopefully, next time, they'll move even closer to a salary cap. But until then, Henry needs to get over it. Ah, screw that, this is GREAT! Let the bile between the Evil Empire and the Cursed Sox flow! :evil

[Doc Milo]

A caller on talk radio here in NY had an interesting solution:

Establish a 50 million dollar cap/floor. Every team in the league has to spend at least 50 million on player payroll. Each team also gets five franchise players on whom they can spend any amount of money.

So ... every team has to fit 20 players into a 50 million dollar payroll, then for five players they can spend what they want. A low budget team can choose to spend the minimum on those five players and have a payroll of barely over 50 mil. A large market team can spend 100 million on those five players, and have a payroll of 150 mil. This would keep teams like Boston and the Yankees from getting 10 players making 10 - 20 million a year, because they have to have a roster of 25 players, and 20 players have to fall into that 50 million dollar cap. As presently constituted, the Yankees would have to trim at least 5 to 6 high priced players from their roster this year...

It probably needs a lot more tweaking and planning out, but it was an interesting proposal that I think should be given some thought by the owners and players assoc.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't see why they need a bottom cap. In the NFL there is no bottom cap and just about ever team gets close to the cap (most of the league has to cut payroll just to stay under) except one Arizona Cardinals and they have the worst owner in all of sports.

[JMK]

Yes but unlike MLB, the NFL's owners have taken what's best for the game into account and choose to spend money on payroll. MLB owners are probably the worst in sports. They don't have any kind of common ground on what's good for baseball. I think a majority of owners would choose to pocket the money rather than spend it on a quality team.

[Doc Milo]

That's right, JMK. Take the revenue sharing that comes from the luxury tax. The smaller market teams take that and pocket it. They don't increase their payrolls by the amount they recieve in revenue sharing. It all goes to profit. Too many teams in MLB have owners that measure a season's success in profit made (in dollars and cents) rather than in having a winning season. If given the choice, they would rather finish in third place and make a 50 million in profit rather than win the World Series and make 10 million in profit. That's why any plan has to have a minimum salary as well as a cap.