Kicking SWG, introducing WoW

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

Ok, first off, I would like to congradulate the Devs of SWG. They are the only people I ever know who can take something so good, and awesome of a game, (beta3) and turn it into crap.
I'm still holding out though, I'll restart at the end of December, and see if they fixed it all up. If not, I deleting the game.
Sad waste of money, sure, but maybe my brother would like it.


Right now, I am following 3 different MMORPG.

junk metal www.junkmetal.net
Online game with robots. (think Mech Warrior online)

Middle-Earth online

and of course,

World of Warcraft which I am following more then others.
The game looks alot better then the graphics of Galaxies and even EQ2. I like the cartoonish look, lets you have more fun.

[ReaperFett]

They are the only people I ever know who can take something so good, and awesome of a game, (beta3) and turn it into crap.
Prove you could do better. You want this, you want that, you want the other. But you don't have to DO them.


Myself, I only care for MMORPGs that are in a world that interests me. So presently, I'd get either Galaxies or City of Heroes.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

Prove you could do better. You want this, you want that, you want the other. But you don't have to DO them.

Most of the changes came from Gamer Input, and those are the changes that screwed over the Star Wars Exp. It is no longer Star Wars based, it is now just Star Wars themed.

[Droo]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Prove you could do better. You want this, you want that, you want the other. But you don't have to DO them.


That's not an argument, you can't possibly say that when there's a place a couple of forums up which is filled with threads of reviews made by many, including yourself, which criticise and/or compliment films willy nilly. If there's a basis for comparison - and in the gaming world, there's many, he's entitled to say what he did. The "Can you do better?" argument is a last resort. Don't go there, girlfriend!

[Morgan Evanar]

Originally posted by Dru
That's not an argument, you can't possibly say that when there's a place a couple of forums up which is filled with threads of reviews made by many, including yourself, which criticise and/or compliment films willy nilly. If there's a basis for comparison - and in the gaming world, there's many, he's entitled to say what he did. The "Can you do better?" argument is a last resort. Don't go there, girlfriend! Please have my manbabies.

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Dru
That's not an argument, you can't possibly say that when there's a place a couple of forums up which is filled with threads of reviews made by many, including yourself, which criticise and/or compliment films willy nilly. If there's a basis for comparison - and in the gaming world, there's many, he's entitled to say what he did. The "Can you do better?" argument is a last resort. Don't go there, girlfriend!

There isn't a comparison when he says "They are the only people I ever know who can take something so good, and awesome of a game, (beta3) and turn it into crap.". He is arguing that noone else would make a MMORPG in the SW Universe that he dislikes. Where is the basis for comparison? The other SW MMORPG that exists? Oh wait, there isn't one, is there? No, there isn't Dru.

He also argues noone else could change a Beta into something worse. Has he never played Counter-Strike? People constantly whinge it's getting worse with new updates. In fact, MOST games which update get this. Or how about Jedi Outcast/Academy, which according to boards gets worse with each update too. Strange that, isn't it? The way how noone else could do this, but then if you go to a different game the same complaints happen.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Thank you for the insightful and unltimatly wrong explaination of what Dyzm posted.

I am quite intelligent enough to work out the truth in what he posted without assistance or being lead off the poitn of discussion.

Strawmen deserve to be burnt, not used in arguments.

Dyzm, admittedly, I'm not one for Warcraft, but Helen is. I know she's hanging out for it as well. I've only heard good things about it so far, so I guess money will be well spend when it arrives. When is it due to beta / come out?

[Pierce Tondry]

http://www.blizzard.com/wow/ is the World of WarCraft homepage. At this time, there is no official release date and I don't know whether there's a beta date yet or not (couldn't find one on the site).

I am eagerly anticipating the arrival of both WoW and StarCraft: Ghost. For me, Blizzard is as synonymous with quality games as Square used to be.

PS to Fett: The question is not whether he can create a better game. The question is how he feels the game has withstood the transition from beta testing to market product. There are several other MMORPGs with which one can compare, most notably Square's current release of Final Fantasy Online.

PS to Morg: teh mansechs = no!

[Darth Viscera]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Prove you could do better. You want this, you want that, you want the other. But you don't have to DO them.

This is how the devs feel. Apparently they're of the opinion that they don't have to DO it either.

In 7 months they'll have made ~$184 million on this game. They have more than enough cash to hire new people to help in giving the game content and features. They simply choose not to. They're the laziest, most incompetent video game developers on the face of the planet. As it is, they just tell us to stuff it with all our recommendations and player feedback, and encourage us to create "Player content". ROFL. It would be funny if it weren't so tragic. George Lucas must be spinning in his grave.

Imagine KOTOR without the storyline, and a sticky note attached to the case which reads "This is a revolutionary new game style which incorporates the ability for the player to make their own storyline! Included are 200 sheets of college rule paper, go nuts. kthxbye"

[Droo]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
There isn't a comparison when he says "They are the only people I ever know who can take something so good, and awesome of a game, (beta3) and turn it into crap.". He is arguing that noone else would make a MMORPG in the SW Universe that he dislikes. Where is the basis for comparison? The other SW MMORPG that exists? Oh wait, there isn't one, is there? No, there isn't Dru.


Oh, so that's your argument? Excuse me while I leave this thread and stop wasting my time.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Prove you could do better. You want this, you want that, you want the other. But you don't have to DO them.


Like this has any relevence whatsoever.


If they (the developers) expect me to lay down my hard earned money for a game, they had better make sure it's full of content and worth the $50 dollars for the software, plus the $10/month (or however much it is) to play the game online. After reading all of the reviews posted here, at gaming sites, and after sampling, there's no way I would pay for that abomination of a game. Take the same tired MMORPG formula, add lots of bugs, subtract content that was initially promised, plop it down in the Star Wars universe and expect it to fly of the shelves? Looks like a lot of people fell for the guise, but I refuse to.

In a consumer society, the entire "well, if you don't like it, then make your own" argument gets tossed out the window, because most companies that don't make quality products find themselves out of business. This is especially true in a market so competitive as the video game industry.




Back to the intended topic...


If I liked MMORPGs, I would probably be excited about WOW. Middle Earth Online looks kind of interesting, although I'd be hesistant a bit, wanting to see just how much Tolkien content gets put into the game, opposed to how much of it is just generic hack-and-grab.

[Darth Viscera]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
If I liked MMORPGs, I would probably be excited about WOW. Middle Earth Online looks kind of interesting, although I'd be hesistant a bit, wanting to see just how much Tolkien content gets put into the game, opposed to how much of it is just generic hack-and-grab.

I hear that. MMORPG developers don't usually care about continuity and will place whatever crap they want in a game, be it a unicorn, faery, carebear, tribble or flying tomacco plant. Filler for other content which is non-existent. At least, that's my experience with SWG.

I know I've asked this before, and don't really expect an answer, but when did it become acceptable policy for a company to sell a video game which is still 2+ years away from being completed and playable?

[Marcus Telcontar]

I know I've asked this before, and don't really expect an answer, but when did it become acceptable policy for a company to sell a video game which is still 2+ years away from being completed and playable

Because gamers let them get away with it. Because companies dont want to experiment and take chances. No matter how bad SWG was, it was goign to turn a profit with dribbling fanboys who dont think leaping in.

Hack / slash / repeat sucks and that is all SWG sounds like it is. It does not appeal to people like me who cant stand that.

Game designers are paid to make content. It's not up to me to make it for them. If they want to make a living, then they better make somethign good enough to buy.


Prove you could do better. You want this, you want that, you want the other. But you don't have to DO them.

This is a stupid cop out of an excuse. They are game designers... BECAUSE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD AT IT. We as the consumers have every right to complain if we get jipped. If we were good enough, we'll be dioing it.... but we are not, so we pay them to do it for us. We pay them by buying their work.

There are two choices if their work is not up to scratch. we can suggest ways to make it better, or tell others to avoid.

As a consultant, I can not tell a customer that if they dont like what I do, to fix it themselves. They will get someone who WILL fix it. And then they will tell others how much I suck. OTOH, if I do the job, then the customer tells others and the word spreads I know what I'm doing.

Like a game designer, I HAVE to do my job. If not, no pay.

The designers of SWG are lucky that they had a SW brand name. Otherwise, by the sounds of it, there would be very little chances of standing on it's own merit.

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
Like this has any relevence whatsoever.
Yes it does. He said they were the ONLY people who could screw it up. If you want to say "I hate the game has evolved", fine. But to claim that they are the only people who could do this? Wrong.


Originally posted by Marcus Elessar
Hack / slash / repeat sucks and that is all SWG sounds like it is.
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/26/1848238&mode=thread&tid=127&tid=186&tid=206&tid=209

...proof that no matter what, SOMEONE wants to H/S/R :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

/me actoin ignite strawman

[ReaperFett]

I like how you ignore the portion that was for you to say the same thing you always do :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
I like how you ignore the portion that was for you to say the same thing you always do :)

Really. kthxbye

[ReaperFett]

yourwelcomeseeyasaround? :)

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Yes it does. He said they were the ONLY people who could screw it up. If you want to say "I hate the game has evolved", fine. But to claim that they are the only people who could do this? Wrong.



You really need to learn to grasp the core point(s) and intent of a post rather than constantly argue semantics. All it accomplishes is to make you look like a jackass.

Thank you so much for hijacking and ruining what could have been a good discussion about upcoming games, mearly because of an off-the-cuff opinion.

http://69.56.186.201/photopost/data/504/1156eject.jpg

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

*pokes head back in*

I just speaking from personal exp. when I say the game turned to crap. Throughout my gaming life, I have never seen a game go downhill. Sure, the latest patch for Desert Combat screws the M1-A1 tank, but that looks like a pot-hole more then a total downhill slide that SWG is on.

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an

Thank you so much for hijacking and ruining what could have been a good discussion about upcoming games, mearly because of an off-the-cuff opinion.
I did remark about MMORPGs, look at my post. Everyone else ignored that, is that my fault?

BTW Dyzm, did you ever register at the City of Heros board? They started planning their beta testing, and if you registered before November, you're eligable. Makes me glad I registered in February to make....one post I think? :D

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

I never registered for City of heros. Last time I visited their page was back when they had released the abilities of the first 2 types of people you can choose.

[ReaperFett]

Okay :)

It's a new experience for me, a beta test I am possible able to do where I can actually play it :)

[Sanis Prent]

Boy I'm glad I never got into Galaxies, or any other MMORPG

This increases your nerd factor by 20

[ReaperFett]

I accepted a high factor a long time ago :D

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

I capped the Nerd Factor.

OBTW, latest news on the Undercover Nerd. Most people view people who watch Star Wars Often as nerds, or watch alot of movies, or have swords, and post at Forums like this.

Admit it Mr. Sanis, you are one of us. Join the Dark Side of the Nerdom.

[ReaperFett]

Anyway don't worry, I'm sure the life Devs will Nerf the nerd factor in time ;)

[Master Yoghurt]

The problem with MMORPG's is, they tend to get tedious and repetious after a while, IMO. There should be more versatility and fun in the gameplay rather than just trying to level up your character all day. The other problem is, they are never finished on release. You have to wait like one year or so before they are really playable and the amount of bugs are fixed to a tolerable degree.

[Charley]

Originally posted by Dark Lord Dyzm
I capped the Nerd Factor.

OBTW, latest news on the Undercover Nerd. Most people view people who watch Star Wars Often as nerds, or watch alot of movies, or have swords, and post at Forums like this.

Admit it Mr. Sanis, you are one of us. Join the Dark Side of the Nerdom.

hyuk hyuk eat rat poison

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

Not nerdy enough!

Try "By the Blood of (insert sci-fi name here)! Drink poision and DIE!!!"

[imported_Firebird1]

I haven't played SWG for one month, and I think that I will not be going back. The reason, it's not what I thought it was going to be. There was nothing really to do except level up your character, go on a boring quest, or join a city. While that might of been good for me when I was younger, SWG I thought would have more of a dramatic story to it, kind of like the movies. Instead I feel like I'm being forced to participate in the events because there really isn't anything to do. It's bored me to a point where I decided to do something else, and then Christmas at Walmart happened, and walla instant break from SWG.

Oh well, I hear that WOW will be good, and theres always Middle Earth Online. But I think I'll get the Warcaft 3 Expansion next.

[ReaperFett]

Firebird, could it be that MMORPGs aren't for you? I wouldn't think WOW or MEO would have dramatic stories.

[imported_Firebird1]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Firebird, could it be that MMORPGs aren't for you? I wouldn't think WOW or MEO would have dramatic stories.

Your probally right, but that would mean I waisted a few months for nothing. :(

[ReaperFett]

A coaster ;)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
A coaster ;)

And that, ladies and gentlemen, sums up the worth of Galaxies. A coaster. That really sucks to see potential go to pot.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I think all MMORPG are like that Middle Earth online won't be any different it is going to be leveling up and stuff like that. That might be the problem with games like that and there is no way around it.

[Figrin D'an]

The non-linear freeform structure to MMORPGs makes it difficult to feel as though one as really accomplished anything significant. Killing enemies to get money to buy stuff to kill tougher enemies to get more money to buy better stuff, etc, with an occasional level-up thrown in, only goes so far to making a game worthwhile. There's something to be said about a good storyline that flows from one act to next and gets the player more involved mentally. I guess that's why I tend to prefer games like Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR to Everquest and Galaxies. Plot and character development, just as in any good movie, are important to have in a good RPG.


Not to mention that the whole "buy the game for $50, then give us $10-$15 a month to play online" is a major turnoff.

[ReaperFett]

Well they can't help the monthly fee. I just wish one would be $5/month :)

[imported_Grev Drasen]

If you're playing MMORPGs for plots and storylines you're playing them for the wrong reasons.

[Ishan Shade]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
Boy I'm glad I never got into Galaxies, or any other MMORPG

This increases your nerd factor by 20

........aaaaannndddd spending all your time on a Star Wars Roleplaying board on the internet does what?

[imported_Jack]

The man has a point there charles.

Been playing DAOC online rpg for a year nearly now, waiting really for MEO really at the moe, galaxies can bugger off..lol.

[Charley]

No, he doesn't. I'm not paying $20 or so a month in order to gain some amazing item in a sub-par video game.

[Ishan Shade]

Well that is understandable.

[imported_Firebird1]

I agree with that as well....