Michael Jackson not again

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well talk about deja vu

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031120/ap_on_en_mu/michael_jackson&cid=501&ncid=716

Now I am not going to judge him or anything that is for a jury to do. To me the big question is did he flee the country? I mean he could go to Brazil and nobody could ever touch him (no extradition laws) I guess he could join Polanski in France the French might not turn him over who knows.

[Syo]

Hmmm well it may appear all the rummors are true and if they are I hope they lock him away for a very very long time.

Money saved him last time, but it doesn't appear as if it will this time.

[Charley]

I hope this conflict ends in tazers and nightsticks ^_^;

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well if has left the country they can't get him, and then 5 years later they can never get him for this. Still I won't pass judgment one is innocent until proven guilty.

[Charley]

Bounty hunters plz.

I won't be denied my prize.

[Pierce Tondry]

Great.*

*Really don't care anymore. This stuff has gotten old, and people need to either put him away or find better things to do with their time.

[Dutchy]

NOT guilty.

[Dan the Man]

o rly?

He paid off the last one to avoid a civil case. This one can't be paid off (CA state law changed) and the issue of being in it for the money is past us now.

It's quite suspicious, and much moreso seeing that he is now a fugitive from justice.

So how's that blanket statement treating you, Dutchy?

[Jedi Master Carr]

I wouldn't say he is innocent but I personally don't want to persume him to be guilty he is innocent until a jury says he is guilty, in my mind. Of course I wonder if he will go willing, I have a feeling he might be in hotel in Rio by now.

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr

Now I am not going to judge him or anything that is for a jury to do.
It is? From what some post here, I thought it was for the media and general public to decide :rolleyes

[Marcus Telcontar]

His previous escapade with similar allegations forced a change to law.

Once you could be dubious. Twice or more? I'm not so sure.

Whatever is the outcome, his career is gone.

[Dan the Man]

He had a CAREER?

(dude, everything after Bad sucked lol)

[Droo]

Originally posted by Dan the Man

(dude, everything after Bad sucked lol)

Nonsense, Dangerous is an excellent album and as was History, especially if you didn't own any of his previous albums. This is a matter of opinion though. As for the child abuse allegations, I'm not going to say not guilty because that would mean I have my Michael jackson fanboy blinkers on. Nevertheless, I find it hard to believe that he is capable of sexual activities of any kind. Mentally, he is not an adult. He is not a man. I don't believe he's even had sex before and that his children are his biological offspring. On top of that from what I've read, this Tom Sneddon character sounds like a man with a grudge after having been involved in the last court case. He makes this whole thing sound like some sort of witch hunt.

[Pierce Tondry]

Let's not start a Michael Jackson is good/bad argument guys.

[Sin Vamel]

This is a discussion. There's no arguing going on here, y'hear? NO ARGUING GOING ON HERE! :verymad

/hijack

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Dan the Man
o rly?

He paid off the last one to avoid a civil case. This one can't be paid off (CA state law changed) and the issue of being in it for the money is past us now.

It's quite suspicious, and much moreso seeing that he is now a fugitive from justice.

So how's that blanket statement treating you, Dutchy?

Because I believe him. This man looks like he loves children (in a non-sexual way). I can imagine that in the kinda world he has lived in, he likes children more than adults. In his heart, he's basically a child. He likes to sit in a tree and rollerskate down a hotel hallway.

[Charley]

So how is he unequivocably not guilty then?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Of course Not guilty is different than innocent, he might get not guilty and be responsible, if they can't prove anything or if the defense does a great job of tearing down the prosecution's arguments he may very well get aquitted.

[Marcus Telcontar]

My bet he's found guilty but gets off on mental grounds.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Agent Charley
So how is he unequivocably not guilty then?

IMHO.

[Charley]

opinion doesn't enter into an unequivocable statement, though.

[Dutchy]

Unequivocable means?

[Charley]

an absolute, that is without the possibility of debate.

[Dutchy]

I THINK he's innocent, based on what I said in my 2nd post.

Better?

[Charley]

There we go. Better.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by Marcus Elessar
My bet he's found guilty but gets off on mental grounds.

I believe this to be the case as well.

[Ryan Pode]

He got out on a 3 million dollar bail.

[JMK]

And he's off to Rio?

[Mu Satach]

From Yahoo News (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=638&e=1&u=/nm/20031120/en_nm/people_jackson_dc):

SANTA BARBARA, Calif. (Reuters) - Pop star Michael Jackson (news) surrendered to authorities on Thursday and was booked on suspicion of child molestation as national television broke into regular programming to show the eccentric "King of Pop" in handcuffs.

[Ryla Relvinian]

nobody could ever touch him...

As it were.

Ahem.

I heard about this and just shook my head. I mean, I was a fan of his when I was a kid... his Thriller tape was one of my favorites. When I look at all this going on these days I just see a sad, sad little boy in the body of a grown man who is now fashioning himself into the body of a middle-aged white woman. It's just so depressing! So much wasted talent, and then this. Oh well.

[Charley]

I wanted tazers and night sticks, dammit :mad

[Jedi Master Carr]

Who knows what will happen, if he gets the best laywer (I bet he will bring in Johnnie Cochran) than he could get off.

[TCM'74]

I am already sick of hearing about this everytime I turn on the tele. But I don't know why any kid would suddenly become the drama queen 0=) and take on someone as wealthy and powerful as Michael Jackson in a courtroom charade. Motives are unclear unless in fact. it's true.

However, I would love to see Michael Jackson smash the Santa Barbara District Attorney Sneddon's crouscant underfoot. Now that would be too beautiful.

[Charley]

What?

[Ardath Bey]

Well, the allegations have not been proven true. So there's a fifty percent chance Michael Jackson is not guilty. And District Attorney Sneddon was such a jackass at the press conference and even knocked over the podium mike while gestaculating. Deep down, I want MJ to be found not guilty and his innocence an absolute outside any legal terms too.

[Charley]

Without knowing the evidence, we can't really discuss probabilities, can we?

With CA laws (which were changed due to Michael's last case) compelling the victim to testify and pursue a criminal case, Mikey can't buy himself off the hot seat, and these kinds of crimes are very difficult to disprove.

So I think 50% is a bit generous on his behalf.

[Marcus Telcontar]

10 yars ago, Jackson was accused of masturbating the 13 y.o. The only reason he got off was that the boy refused to co-operate after being paid off. what has become clear that was not then, was the technicalities he and his lawyers used. I though the prior case was a civil suit. It was not - it was a criminal investigation, which was cut out because the witness refused to testify after being paid off.

The difference is that this time, that if this witness is paid off, he must testify. It seems that there is a perception he must testify no matter what - that's not apparently the case. Only in the case of a civil pay off will he be forced. From what I heard today on a current affairs station here, the boy can not be forced UNLESS there is a pay off. But in this case, there is no civil suil. It's criminal only.

I dont really blame the DA for wanting to get Jackson after his technical escape last time.


But I don't know why any kid would suddenly become the drama queen 0=) and take on someone as wealthy and powerful as Michael Jackson in a courtroom charade. Motives are unclear unless in fact. it's true.

Police dont press charges unless it's possible its true. Everything seems like the police have a case and they have multiple counts, not just this 12 y.o. as there is no civil suit, I say the moticves look pretty clean and the boy in question is willing to prove he was molested. Given Jackson stupid addmission he DOES sleep with kids that arent his own in his bed (You just dont go sayign things like that! What are people supposed to think??????) and past techincal escape, he's in deep doodoo this time.

It's sad to see such a talented man become a point of derision. But he bought this on himself by his actions.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think he could still get out of it, I am huge cynic, I think if you are a millionaire/billionaire you could kill sombody and get away with it. All he has to do is buy the best lawyers money can buy and they ripped the prosecution case to shreds, their are lawyers 100x better than this DA I know that for a fact.

[Figrin D'an]

Even if he's not guilty, he needs help. Jackson maybe be in his mid-forties physically, but he certainly isn't mentally. His actions, his public persona, his reluctance to associate with anyone except children... I don't think he's fit to be a parent, much less serve as a responsible host to other parents' kids at his home. Put aside the entire molestation issue for a moment, and examine what you have left. Like Ryla said, he's a sad little boy in a man's body. He's apparently been so unhappy and uncomfortable with that fact, that he's severly altered his appearance to make himself more effeminate. He's trying to live the childhood he never had, partially himself and partially vicariously through the lives of other children. He and his siblings were basically a traveling circus in their youth... they never had real lives, and never really had a chance experience the things that the average child NEEDS to experience in adolescence. A couple of his siblings ended up with fairly normal adult lives, but he certainly didn't. (Neither did his sister Letoya. Janet is the only one in the family who seems to have been able to handle fame, make a career, and generally avoid problems and scandal).

Maybe he's guilty, maybe he's not. I don't know. Either way, he's going to continue to have problems, because his perception of reality is distorted.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Lok at OJ Simpson. I know he is supposed to be 'innocent' but really, I just cant believe that. Jackson will have to be so blatantly guilty for the DA to win. I personally dont realyl believe he is inncoent, but even if 'proven' not guilty, his career is over and he will be sent broke.

Jackson also has a history of paying out civil cases to avoid either details coming out he doesnt want to get exposed (like his financial misdeeds) of the 1993 case.

and lets smack another fallacy down - Jackson is NO simpleton. He is a cunning and intelligent man, screw loose maybe, but he has shown a great talent for business in the 80's, for cutting deals, for understanding what's going on, for his songwriting. He is no simple innocent. boy / man or WTF his fans proclaim him as.

[Figrin D'an]

I never claimed he was a simpleton. One can have mental prowess, yet still be deficient in other areas. Great songwriter, yes. Decent businessman (though he did have help). Sure. Emotionally balanced and mentally matured? Not a chance.

In some areas, he's still a child.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree he might go broke (I don't think he will go as far down as OJ did he has a lot more money than him) and it will hurt his career either way. Man we are going to have a lot of big trials next year (depending on how long hearings and such take for Jackson) Kobe-Peterson, and Jackson. Court TV must be thrilled.

[TCM'74]

I think Michael Jackson is a pitiful human being, alleged illnesses aside of course. He built Neverland to keep his youth and childhood alive, and also to entertain children he hosts. Very pitiful. Not a happy person at all. He is just a diseased man that is inwardly still a child. He desperately needs professional help. And I don't appreciate how the authorities have turned this into a three-ring media circus.

[Charley]

And how is that, exactly?

[TCM'74]

The media coverage of the 71 or 75 team of investigators converging on MJ's estate and Neverland. The hideous press conference where District Attorney Sneddon attempted to address the seriousness of the investigation but succeeded only in making TV news reporters and newspaper journalists in attendance laugh several times.

[Charley]

I think you're pointing the finger in the wrong place.

[TCM'74]

No, not at all. I feel there is proper way of conducting this to the general public. Instead we have ourselves a media entertainment witchhunt.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I this prosecutor is in love with the Media he did a huge interview with CNN before the press conference and he was loving it being on the camera laughing and everything. Unfortunently there are some DA's out there that are showboats.

[TCM'74]

Yeah, District Attorney Sneddon has done nothing but ham it up in television interviews and press conferences. His actions reveal an absolute disregard towards professionalism.

[JMK]

It certainly seems as though he's just as concerned with his image as an entertainer as he is with the law. I agree somewhat, this is more of a circus than a pre-trial or whatever stage they're at. Face it, people love to make fun of MJ. It makes for 'good ratings.' So this isn't going to end, so buckle up and have the puke buckets handy. :x

[Jedi Master Carr]

It looks like another OJ trial all ready. All Michael has do is hire Cochran and it will be complete. Man I am sure there is a bad MJ joke in that :p

[Jedieb]

I'd never let my kids within a hundred yards of that freak. Why the kid's parents put him in a position that Wacko Jacko could even get near him is a disgrace.

Enjoy your trip to the big house opaque boy.

[Jedi Master Carr]

And what is this about celebrities lately? You have Kobe charged with Rape, Robert Blake charged with murdering his wife, now Phil Spector charged with murdering some ex-actress, and now Jackson. Combined that with the Peterson case and you got a lot major trials that will be going on. And taking the Kobe case out the rest are in California.

[Marcus Telcontar]

My personal take on the prosecutor is that he knws damn well Jackson escaped in 1993, he's got a case and this time he's making sure Jackson has no career in the likely event of accquital. Face it, you have to have Jackson's hand on the boy's privates on film in front of an audience to have a guarentteed guility verdict and even then some morons would still think he was innocent.

The news here pointed out it's not a single indictment, but multiple.

[Jedi Master Carr]

But to act like he is the star attraction on CNN that to me is showboating. Most DA's don't talk about their case to the Press they don't shine up for the media to me is nothing but a showboat looking to get a book deal out of this case.

[TCM'74]

Ditto. Kato Kaelin and Mark Furman revisited. I smell the same stink Carr. lol

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

Id still like to know how anyone can be 'compelled' to testify? Theres no law in the land that can force you to do so. Its called the 5th Admendment.

OJ should fry...now theres a case for Charley's nightsticks and tazers >D

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Daiquiri Van-Derveld
Id still like to know how anyone can be 'compelled' to testify? Theres no law in the land that can force you to do so. Its called the 5th Admendment.

OJ should fry...now theres a case for Charley's nightsticks and tazers >D

The 'compelled to testify' is only if a civil settlement to a criminal case is reached AFAIK. This means someone can no longer buy the silence of a witness as Jackson probably did in 1993. as I understand, it means why you settled must be disclosed and is admissable in court. What it effectively does is makes sure the accused wont attempt to settle to buy a witness' silence. It also has the effect that witnesses cant really angle for a cash settlement only.

I didnt explain that well. Current affairs radio here had a good USA lawyer on explain why it was enacted and what loophole it closed and why it is not covered by the 5th.

The 5th amendment is for self incrimiation AFAIK.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

Actually, Mark you did :) It makes more sense now, thanks :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

how will the boy testify? I heard statements from the press saying that him and his mother both deny the accusastions if goes on the stand that way they will never get a conviction.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
how will the boy testify? I heard statements from the press saying that him and his mother both deny the accusastions if goes on the stand that way they will never get a conviction.

Eh? That's not teeing up with what's here. And if they are not co-operating, how can there be a case in the first place? sorry, but sounds not correct to me.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

I dont think that law is good. Its a person's own business if they want to settle out of court. Why should they have to explain it to anybody?

[Dutchy]

[off-topic]

Hey Daiquiri, who's the beautiful lady in your avatar? :)

[Master Yoghurt]

The whole thing smells fishy. Everything that is said and/or reported in this matter I take with several pinches of salt.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Originally posted by Dutchy
[off-topic]

Hey Daiquiri, who's the beautiful lady in your avatar? :)

I'm not Daiquiri, but I'll answer that one. It's Monica Potter :)

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

Shes very pretty, isnt she, Dutchy .. and thank you, Dasq :)

Im kind of with Yog on this one. While I think its beyond weird - his association with young boys - I just have the feeling its a bit of a witch hunt or something. I have really mixed feelings about this :\

[Marcus Telcontar]

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7986309%255E2,00.html

You got to be kidding me. How could anyone get that financially screwed up?

[Charley]

Must you ask that? LOOK WHAT HE DID TO HIS FACE!

If you can do that to your face, doing that to your wallet is easy.

[JMK]

Yep. What Charley said.

Plus, he admits to being on a different plane of existance than the rest of us. He's 'Peter Pan', remember? He probably no longer lives in reality and doesn't acknowledge that his money will run out, and that people will come after their loans.
I can just imagine him saying
"I want that, I'm buying it."
"But Michael, that's 10 million dollars. You can no longer afford that".
"Yes I can, it's sweet, I want it. I'm Peter Pan. I'm buying it".
"Michael, you're hinging on broke, you have a looming debt of hundreds of millions of dollars, you have to cut back".
"Lies, all lies...it'll be fun and innocent, you'll see".

I truly don't understand how one person goes so far down the crapper after being on top for so long. He now looks more like Joan Rivers and Michael Jackson.

[ReaperFett]

Apparently, the kid and the mother are on tape post-Bashir interview praising Jackson for how he is. This apparently means they'd have had to be praising him POST molestation, which seems strange.



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=501&ncid=716&e=7&u=/ap/20031126/ap_on_en_mu/michael_jackson - Wow, these people look credible :rolleyes

[Master Yoghurt]

Yeah, there is definitely more than meets the eye

[JMK]

"Here son, read this. I wrote it for you, and this is what you tell police when they ask you about Michael. Remember, he's a bad man. Cry lots too."

If this is true then these people ought to be [insert cruel and unusual punishment here].

[Jedi Master Carr]

That does makes things more interesting, it does bring up some reasonable doubt.