Haha, anybody want any swords?

[Sanis Prent]

Ok, I love weapons. Love them to death.

However, I don't own a sword, and have always wanted one.

So, I finally took some initiative today, and went on ebay to bid on swords. I bid on a katana/wakisashi/tanto/stand set. Promptly, I was outbid.

So, the next time, I bid on two sets, fully expecting to lose one or both bids. What happens? I win both. Yes, so now for the total cost of 86 dollars, I am the owner of two sets of Japanese swords (3 katanas, 2 wakisashi's, 1 tanto, 2 carrying stands).

While its a bargain, its more than I meant to spend.

So, anybody want a set of swords? ^_^;

[Mortaniuss]

I might be able to work something out with ya. I'll IM you later and we'll talk.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

katana/wakisashi/tanto/stand set

My friend just bought me that set from a discount store (kick butt birthday present). It was the kind of store which buys all the old stuff for 1/5th the price and sells them for 1/3 the original selling price.

If they the same swords, then you will be amazed. The hilts are good, the sheaths are well made. (With the wax/oil type compound on the inside) And they are practical, no extra carvings to weaken the overall sword. Only downside is, they come unsharpened, and they are not even close to balanced.
My friend and I are going back to the store today, perhaps to trade them in for a 1 slightly higher quality katana, or a European Broadsword.

But you got an awesome deal. Stabbity deaths all around.

[Ryan Pode]

Sanis, I'm assuming they are modern era replicas correct?

[Sanis Prent]

Yes, of course. Nobody in their right mind sells anything vintage for under $1000 bucks. These are replicas, carbon steel, non-folded, and probably not even full tang (likely partial/rat-tail). If you're looking for something to defend against ninjas and samurai, go somewhere else. This isn't going to do anything but slow them down. But if you want beautiful conversation pieces that can probably cut things that aren't ninjas and samurai, and aren't planning on getting in a sword duel, these are your babies.

[Sanis Prent]

<img src=http://www.panic.hopto.org/swf/charley/blue-swords.jpg>
These are the ones I will probably sell. It's 40 bucks, or best offer. However, I'm pretty sure people will want to pay more than that, so don't expect the price to stay at 40 for long. The swords in the set are a 19" Tanto, 32" Wakisashi, and a 38" Katana. The finish is a blue lacquer, capped in dark-silvered steel caps on the scabbard and pommel. The grip is wound with nylon cord, as is the scabbard strapping. A wooden display rack comes with the set.

<img src=http://www.panic.hopto.org/swf/charley/black-swords.jpg>
This set are sheathed in matte black wood scabbards, capped in bronze and set with an inlay dragon design. There are no strappings, wraps, or grip guards. Blade is carbon steel, and the set contains a 23" Tanto, 31" Wakisashi, and 40" Katana. It also comes with a wooden display rack. More than likely, I will keep this set for myself, unless I prefer the blue set. If I decide to sell this one instead, price will begin at $50, as this was a more expensive set than the other.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

Aye, the top ones are the exact same ones I have, except different color. The designs on the hilt guards and shape are the exact same.

http://www.boomspeed.com/dilligas/swords.jpg

While you at it, Admire my carpet! OoOOooO!

(All crappy photos are taken by David)

[Sanis Prent]

Well, I wouldn't rush to say that. Its a fairly generic design, as far as katanas go. Hopefully, I'll have more to say about the quality when I get them.

[imported_J'ktal Anajii]

Just for the record, I'll take whichever set you're going to sell. And if they could be had by Halloween, it would be even better, for I am going to be a Samurai.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

Space Ninja Cowboy Pirate Zombie, that my Costume plan.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Just one question: Are the functional?

[Kelt Simoson]

How much for the tonto Charley :)?

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Hey, I can go for some swordage, if you haven't already sealed a deal, Chuck.

[Zasz Grimm]

i wouldn't mind em, but if mitch wants / needs themem for a costume, he can have em.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Wei Wu Wei
Just one question: Are the functional?

I've already touched on this. Functional against ninja attack? Probably not. Functional against dicing vegetables and scaring away a burglar? Probably. Functional as a beautiful conversation piece? Definitely.



Originally posted by Kelt Simoson
How much for the tonto Charley :)?

I'd prefer not to sell the swords individually, because that will make everything a mess, especially considering the sets come with a display rack for three swords. Besides, 40 bucks is a steal for ONE sword, let alone three and a stand. Also, breaking them up makes figuring shipping & handling amounts a pain in the butt. ESPECIALLY across the pond.


Originally posted by Evil Hobgoblin
Hey, I can go for some swordage, if you haven't already sealed a deal, Chuck.

Base price is 40 bucks, plus you guys online need to cover your own shipping. Lots of people are talking to me about getting this, so right now, its whoever makes the best offer. If somebody at my house does it, its theirs. If one of you guys do it, its yours. I hate to be a jerk about it, but I don't want to get stuck high and dry with these swords, and right now, at 40 bucks, I'm breaking even on cost. I don't want to fleece anybody, but a little bit of profit never hurt.

[Sanis Prent]

BTW, the only reason I'm selling to the highest offer is because SO MANY have expressed interest. I don't want to be a jerk and play favorites, so I figure that its reasonable to sell to whoever wants it more.

[Pierce Tondry]

I'd be willing to go set base price (40 for blue and 50 for the gold) + 10 and S&H at this point.

[Sanis Prent]

well, s&h is probably gonna be more than that. I paid 20 to ship each of these sets, but I'm not sure how accurate that figure is until I try to ship it myself.

[Sanis Prent]

I currently have bids over the starting price from two people:

Pierce ($51 + s&h)
Sejah

Currently, Pierce has the high bid. If others post bids, I will post them here (including local contacts). When the swords arrive, you'll get a much more in-depth report from me.

[Ceres Duvall]

I'd love to take them but I have no where to put them. Our dvds and books take up every bit of room in our apartment, on top of that big TV Julian just got... Maybe if they come with something to hang on the wall? Do they? *wonders if her walls would hold up swords or not* That'd be bad if they didn't and I still tried. O.o

[Sanis Prent]

You could always go to a hardware or craft store and find some mountings to hang the swords up with. I've done this for my chinese dragon kris, roman gladius, and my bokken.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

You just said you didn't own any swords before you won the two on ebay. You nutter.

[Sanis Prent]

I wouldn't classify any of those as swords though.

The gladius dagger has a 12 inch blade, the dragon kris has a 7 inch blade, and the bokken doesn't really have a blade (its a wooden practice sword)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

You didn't say it was a gladius DAGGER. :mneh now I see.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
I've already touched on this. Functional against ninja attack? Probably not. Functional against dicing vegetables and scaring away a burglar? Probably. Functional as a beautiful conversation piece? Definitely.



In other words, their decorative. Nevermind then. Not like I'm going to go around killing people with a sword or anything, but if I did have one, I'd want to be able to fight with it. And not have it break. Weapons are supposed to be sturdy, so you can fight with them over and over. Not to hang on the wall to be admired. It's a waste of metal in my opinion. But that's another topic.

[The Ace of Diamonds]

Uh, then why even ask, when you should be able to tell from the pictures and price?

I can't attest to the tang of the blades, I can only assume. The blades themselves are definitely not the kind used in genuine katanas, but thats easy enough to see. A folded steel blade clearly has wavy striations in the metal that make it look like a piece of wood. Blades that look immaculate and clean are not folded, but instead are stamp-cast.

You want a folded steel, full-tang katana, in pristine condition? Get ready to pay 50 times as much, and that's a fair estimate.

You can use these things for defense, sure enough. Defense against another sword-wielding opponent is entirely another matter.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

Weapons are supposed to be sturdy, so you can fight with them over and over. Not to hang on the wall to be admired. It's a waste of metal in my opinion. But that's another topic.

I have the exact kind he has. Aye, they pretty to look at, and you could proberly kill all types of wild animals, maybe even a demon with a thin hide. I could stab it through the wall, or even cut wood. But If I hit against another blade, It would proberly get some massive dings in it.

http://www.martialartsworld.com.au/catalogue/hhs.htm

http://www.lastlegend.de/03kat/ll400dragon.html (maybe)

[Sanis Prent]

Good links Dyzm.

Those are good folded steel, full-tang swords. Akrabbim has one that is similar. I believe his is a Musashi Daito (HUGE katana), and the difference in quality is palpable. His sword also ran him $1600 dollars, so its about 100 times as pricey as a generic, carbon-steel, partial-tang katana.

Generic katanas are nice and functional to a degree, but they don't have anything on the full reproductions. Everything has a noticably finer feel, from the Tsuba, to the ray skin grip, to the wrappings, to the pommel and guard. The blade's width (along the back of the blade) is noticably wider, and the blade itself is heavier, with the center of gravity pitched forward. You have to tense your wrists to keep the blade tip from dipping. This may seem trivial, but that extra bit of mass in a swing is devastating.

<img src=http://www.panic.hopto.org/swf/charley/folded.jpg>

This is Japanese folded steel, from around WW2. Contrast this with the picture of the carbon steel blade of the tanto I posted earlier. The difference is clear to see. The carbon steel looks far cleaner and more immaculate. The folded steel, however, is of a higher quality.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

The best swords in the world are the Ancient Damascus Steel blades. Most where made in the middle east, yet others have cropped up from place to place.
The Green Destiny sword in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon repersents a Damascus Blade of Oriental production.

Of course, the Damascus Steel came from Syria, and I have no doubt that the Asian couter-parts are known as something else.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html

European weapons (broad sword, long sword, claymore) have always been more of a sharped club, built to deal mighty damage. From what I understand from reading, the old swords shattered bone more then it cut it.
I have thought up historic mock battles between England and Japan. And I believe the Japanese Samurai would lay waste to the Knights on foot. On Horse, the first pass of the lance would give the English an early lead, but the lances would soon shatter, and the Japanese would have the advantage with their smaller quicker horses, lighter armor, and quicker swords.
Then the Welsh Long bowmen would lay waste to the Bamboo Armored Samurai, while the Japanese Archers would be still out of range with there smaller bows.

[Sanis Prent]

I doubt even a good katana is going to stand up to a blow from a claymore. Thats too much force.

And that spiel about Damascus steel is a bit dubious. Japanese steel != Damascus steel, and where on earth did you hear about the Green Destiny being made from Damascus steel?

[Ryan Pode]

It depends where on the blade the claymore hit. It it takes the sword on the flat, it will destroy it. But if the katana-wielder swings, I'd bet my money that they'd dice the claymore... only to be knocked out as the foot or two they cut off would fall on them.

[Sejah Haversh]

It also depends on your definition of Damascus Steel. The true type simply originiated in the area, but is by no means confined to it. It was a mixture of high carbon and low carbon steels, and was one of the first to be folded together.

So, technically the Japanese improved on the method by learning the exacting science of metal folding, and actually used three different kinds of carbon steel in their blades. The Cutting edge was folded fifteen times, and was ov extemely high carbon, the center was folded five times and was of low carbon, and was intended for shock absorbtion, and the back and side plates were of medium carbon and were folded ten times. They were for durability and structural integrity. That is why Japanese folded steel resembles the patination of Damascus steel.

Damascus, being generally made from only two kinds of carbon steel has a more defined patination, though. The other description is simply the steel that is produced in the area, which is good, but can pale in comparison to Swedish steel, or Toledo steel.


Then the Welsh Long bowmen would lay waste to the Bamboo Armored Samurai...

I must disagree with this on the reason that few Samurai used the cheap bamboo armor. Often it was leather that had been hardend in boiling urine, or larger plates made up of iron chips that were stiched together over a metal-framed piece of stretched hardened leather.

The Green Destiny was not of Damascus steel, and it can be seen in the close-ups of the blade. I have gotten to see other tai chis of its era, and they also lacked the patination of a Damascus blade, but were reputed to be so well tempered that they would take out most inferior blades. It was also admitted that the technique used to create these blades was lost long ago due to secrecy in the Smithing business. The last who could make it were of Xao origin, and when China's first true emperor unified China, he had the entire Xao region exterminated to eliminate threats. I'm using a museum to back this part up, so I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one.

[Sanis Prent]

carbon ++ = strong, brittle steel

carbon -- = softer, sturdier steel

As for bows, English longbowmen are probably the best you're gonna find, unless we want to talk about some of the mongol horsemen. Even then, for range, power, and accuracy, english archers are insane. Even with leather-armored samurai, its not a contest.

[Sejah Haversh]

I'm sorry, I meant to repute the bamboo armor part, not the fact that the English Longbowman would mow down just about anything . I've shot one of those monsters at Warwick castle, and it was a beast, and had some serious power.

Those would go through some of the best plate that Europe had to offer, so of course they would pierce Japanese armor. Sorry I didn't make myself clear.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

I bow to your greaty knowledge, I learn more from this site then I do in history books. I was going off an old School Book about swords from the school library. Read 3 years ago. It mentioned something about the Chinese Sword making techniques using close to the same ways. I figured that the name would be Damascus Steel, picked up world wide.

Now, how about this mythical battle.

The Visigoth Tribe (and her Allies) vs. the growing Yamato Empire (And any allies they have)

Roughly the same Time period.
In the east, the growing Yamato Dynasty is strengthening its hold by defeating the lessar Warlords.
In the West, War King Alaric commanding the Visigoths have attacked Rome time after time.
Succeeding in finally smashing and burning it to the ground, looting goes for 3 days before they finally put the torch to Rome.
Many of Alaric's soliders are Roman trained.
Smaller German tribes have allied with the powerful Visigoths.

Can someone else fill in the Details for Japan? I don't know what type of stance they held with neighboring Clans/Families.
(Side note, the Balance of power between the Franks, the Visigoths, and the Ostrogoths flip-flop throughout the time period, but at this point, it the Visigoths who have the power. The Ostrogoths are licking wounds inflicted by the invading Huns)

[Sejah Haversh]

First off, it wouldn't happen. But if it did, it would happen on Japanese soil.

Japan had a firm policy of not associating with the outside world at that time, and would not have sent a land army so far West. It would have been rediculosly expensive, and worthless. So, placing the battle back on Japanese soil, the Japanese suddenly have a huge advantage.

The invaders would have to sail across from China to get to Japan, and boats of the time weren't terribly safe or effective ways of transporting large armies. Japan would also hear of an army amassing to invade them, so they would build up fortifications and prepare for the onslaught. A well-trained field army would be prepared to fight off the invaders, and I believe that Japan would slaughter incoming forrces before they would have a chance to fully prepare their assault.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

The invaders would have to sail across from China to get to Japan, and boats of the time weren't terribly safe or effective ways of transporting large armies.

Germanic tribes are kin to the Vikings, and the Saxon Tribe used Long Boats along the same design. Perfect Raiding vessals. Hit and Run.

In a direct conflict, A elite German warrior would be most likely be using a very heavy weapon. Swinging it as if it was 1/3rd the size. Unlike the Japanese, the Germanic people have grown up fighting. They are the best Mercenary groups in the old world.

The style of fighting has been highly polished to the hack em up anyway possible style. They have fought against numerous types of fighting.

The Japanese at the time have the same method of battle. It is highly perfected, but does not leave much room for adaption.

[Sejah Haversh]

Japan would also have fortifications.

That, and a hit and run tactic would be mostly useless against a nation like Japan. If you're talking all-out war, hit and run would be innefective, and would lead to the European enemies being led into traps, caught in harbors and bays and killed. The Japanese were very smart, and their tacts might have even bested the Romans. Also, the pike and long spear were favored weapons, so though the Germanic cribes might have been more powerful in melee, an eighteen foot pike can keep a man at a distance rahter effectively.

Also, factor in the Japanese devition to honor, and to martial arts. These were not the same greedy pillagers who would raid without consequence, everything was planned, and they had a long history of battles to perfect themselves off of. There's a reason China never conquored Japan. Japan was too buff, and held them off at the shores.

And your point about the Vikings having good boats sort of nulls itself unless they were willing to sail their boats all the way arounf the northern coast of Russia, or down around Africa and come up from below. Getting said boats to Japan would have been a minor miracle in the first place.

The Japanese have also grown up fighting. At this time, there had been many feudal wars, and the Samurai class was huge, and very powerful. I think that a Germanic team against a Japanese team would at least be on even footing. Also, who says the Japanese would not adapt? They have been known to take any measure needed to win. They had awesome long range, and short range bows, too, so could pick off incoming raiders at distance, and up close with accuracy. And in my last regard, the Japanese had one language that was widespread, versus the nine or ten that the invaders would have. Instant communication and plannign bonus right there. When everybody can understand what you are saying, you are far more effecient.

And you can't say that an Eliete German warrior could beat a Ninja. There is documented Fact that nothing can beat a Ninja. Not even a missle filled with mutant zombie spiders. The Ninjas would totally rock and save Japan.

So, I still say Japan would win.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

And you can't say that an Eliete German warrior could beat a Ninja. There is documented Fact that nothing can beat a Ninja. Not even a missle filled with mutant zombie spiders. The Ninjas would totally rock and save Japan.

:lol That has to be the funniest thing I've read all day. :D

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Sejah Haversh
And you can't say that an Eliete German warrior could beat a Ninja. There is documented Fact that nothing can beat a Ninja. Not even a missle filled with mutant zombie spiders. The Ninjas would totally rock and save Japan.

So, I still say Japan would win.

Except that in that situation, the Ninjas would likely be on the Germanic tribes' side.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

Japan was too buff, and held them off at the shores.
Kamakazi

And your point about the Vikings having good boats sort of nulls itself unless they were willing to sail their boats all the way arounf the northern coast of Russia, or down around Africa and come up from below. Getting said boats to Japan would have been a minor miracle in the first place.

It is a made up battle, this is assuming that Germany and Japan where next door neighbors in a mythical world. The Germanic tribes where barbarians. They where also pyshically stronger, larger, and have the mythical Berzerker ability to counter the Super Ninjas that you speak off.

"Oi! you chopped me arm off! But that just gives me a longer reach!"

*Beats Ninja to death with his own arm which is holding a axe*

On a side note back to the swords.
My Katana Busted.... The Sword Hilt, pommel, and guard are GLUED together. And the Hilt is hallow. DO not attempt to chop cardboard boxes with said Katana. They will bust.
I took my vengence out of these dread boxes with my trusty butterfly knife. Took lots of stabbity stabs to beat it though.

[Sanis Prent]

In other news, one set of swords came by mail today. I'll go pick em up tomorrow.

[Figrin D'an]

This discussion is almost as funny as listening to two nerds argue about who would win if the Star Trek and Star Wars universes were merged.


"But, the Borg would assimilate the Death Star and turn it against the Imperial fleet."
"No way, because Darth Vader would Force Choke the Borg Queen and there's no way they could adapt to stop a lightsaber."


:mneh

[Sejah Haversh]

But the Jedi would send in their legions of Ninja Wookies to save the day, and steal Shatner's girdle and hairpiece.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

My. HAIRPEICE. Seems. to be... Missing.

SPOCK. Find. My. Hairpiece. It. Is. the. most important thing. For you. To... DO.

[Sejah Haversh]

That is highly illogical, captain. Besides, it appears to be some sort of a trap.

[Sanis Prent]

First set is in.

What can I say? Its a 50 dollar 3-sword set. You get what you pay for. I wouldn't use these things in a fight. I'm sure you could do it, but I wouldn't want to take the chance.

The swords are in an unglossed, black wooden tsuba, with a dragon carved into the wood. The end of the tsuba and the pommel are capped in metal, with dragons and a stain finish. There's a couple of nicks in the wood around the opening, and in maybe 1 or 2 other spots, but other than that, they look nice. The blades came oiled. I used a chamois cloth to rub each of them down, drawing the excess oil from the blades. The blades themselves are unsharpened, except for the tip of the blade, which is somewhat sharpened. Not much though. You can sharpen them yourselves, or leave them as-is. They still look nice.

Tanto: There is small bit of something on the middle of the blade. I wasn't able to wipe it off, but with elbow grease, it should come off. Looks like some kind of carbon residue stuff. Other than that, good condition.

Wakizashi: The blade locks tight into the tsuba. You gotta give it a good pull to free it.

Katana: There's a nick in the paint of the tsuba, at the opening. I kinda want to dab some acrylic paint over it, but its not that big. The blade almost feels loose in the grip, but its almost not noticable. Still, I wouldn't go raring back and swinging at something.

Stand: Its black wood, fitted with two screws and nuts. I wasn't able to tighten it fully, so there's some bit of give in the pieces. That being said, it sets up just fine, and holds the swords easily. Looks really sharp.

This in mind, if I sell the set I got, I'd start it at 40, rather than the 50 I said before. Minor bits of fuss on the aforementioned parts kinda make me willing to ask for less. The set isn't bad. In fact, its still a damn nice buy.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

Spock! I. know. it. is. A trap. But. My. Hairpiece. Is. Vital. for the future.

How. Can. I. Pick. up. Chicks. Looking like this?

[Sanis Prent]

My mom's delivering the 2nd set in about 45 minutes

[Sanis Prent]

2nd set is in.

I've decided on selling the first set (black).

One thing that is interesting is that in the grip of the black swords, there are two raised bumps visible. These are the bolts that bind the blade's tang into the grip. Not saying these are full tang (I doubt it), but they've got a better tang than I thought. Could be interesting.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

Alright...I have to finally ask.......what is this 'tang' you speak of?

[Sanis Prent]

Tang refers to how much of the blade's steel sits in the handle. Full tang means that the steel of the blade goes fully into the handle. Its the most sturdy of them all.

There are also partial tangs, fork tangs, and rat-tail tangs, which are of less quality than a full tang, but cheaper.

Tang is important in keeping a sturdy weapon. If you're just using these swords for decoration, tang isn't important, but if you want a sword to get in a sword fight, you want a full-tang blade.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

That makes sense - and I like the blue set the best :)

[Sanis Prent]

As do I :cool

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I thought you were talking about Tang, the astronaut drink. ;)