Question about lightsaber weapons and weapons made with the lightsaber technology.

[Wei Wu Wei]

I was reading another thread concerning cortosis, and this post made me curious.


Yes but keep in mind there are limitations. Bulk, power supply, vulnerabilities that energy weapons face (water, electromagnetic pulses, etc)


How does water and electromagnetic pulses limit an energy weapon like a lightsaber? I imagine the electromagnetic pulse would short out the circuitry in the hilt, but the water thing sort of makes me think. Would the water also short out the handle? Or would it just ruin the "blade" of the weapon? Any help here would be much appreciated.

To all who post with info, thanks ahead of time.

[Lariat Van-Metzger]

If you don't shut the saber down before you go into water, it dies.

If you turn it off before you go in, it's fine.

According to Episode 1.

[Dark Lord Rivin]

From somethings I have heard, water will only make the Saber not function untill it has dried off...

but from my understanding almost every SW guide say something diffrent, and most people can agree if a lightsaber would be effected by water.

[Alpha]

Yeah. some EU mentions underwater use of sabres, but then we have Ep 1 and some other books saying it wouldn't work. :) Good debate,

[Galak Neeus]

Basically it was never an issue until Lucas put it in EP1.

Except, he DIDN'T. Anyone who says Lucas > other for importance can't use this, as it was a cut scene. There could be many reasons why it'd be cut, maybe Lucas had one?

Now you have a situation in theory. Some say high concentrations of water cut out a lightsabre (Cut scene, Jedi Outcast), while others show it working.

To me the best option is simple. New technology. EP1 was nearly 40 years before Luke would properly use a Lightsabre. A revolver doesn't work underwater, a Glock does. Such is advancement.

[Charley]

Hypothetically, allow the saber to work in water. What you've done now is cause an explosive convection around you. Have fun with scalding!

[Galak Neeus]

Hypothetically a Lightsabre is impossible to make, so why can't such a thing be done? :)

[Charley]

Because a 1 meter shaft of sustained, superheated plasma will turn the water around you into a violent maelstrom of steam and hot water? Yeah probably that.

[Galak Neeus]

And having Lightning shoot from your fingers will electrocute you. Welcome to the wonderful world of fiction :)

[Commander Zemil Vymes]

So hey, lets throw all logic to the wind, then!

Ok from now on, gravity works in reverse, because this is fiction. You must be a big fan of Calvinball.

[imported_Akrabbim]

I have to side with Charley. I'm sure it'd work underwater, but he's right, the plasma would superheat the water around you, and you'd boil. Not to mention, the water would vaporize, making TONS of bubbles. You'd be blind at the very least.

To compare this with the Glock comment, a Glock does fire underwater, but bullets still don't travel very well underwater.

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Akrabbim

To compare this with the Glock comment, a Glock does fire underwater, but bullets still don't travel very well underwater.
The point is the Glock is more recent than the revolver, and things have changed. It could come out doing the Macarana, it still fires :)

[Mr Dust]

I'm aware of that. My point was that, even though a Glock fires underwater (i.e. new abilites that previous weapons did not have), it still does not make it a viable underwater weapon. In the same way, a saber would come on under water, but I doubt severely that it would be useful.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Agent Charley
Because a 1 meter shaft of sustained, superheated plasma will turn the water around you into a violent maelstrom of steam and hot water? Yeah probably that.


Excactly

Just becuase it's fiction doesnt mean logic and common sense are thrown out.

[Ka' el Darcverse]

Originally posted by Agent Charley
Because a 1 meter shaft of sustained, superheated plasma will turn the water around you into a violent maelstrom of steam and hot water? Yeah probably that.

And what of the heat of the blade when you are using it outside of water, is that forgotten? Most welder's and plasma torch users use some sort of eye protection from the blinding light and super thick gloves to keep from cooking their hands. I don't recall anyone ever having burned their hand from holding a saber by the hilt for too long... (Just being devil's advocate)

[Preacher Blake]

Air doesn't conduct heat nearly as well as water.

[Mr Pulse]

lightsabers cut/heat stuff = lightsabers heat water =
water is super heated AND/OR the saber responds by having to sustain a blade in a denser enironment and will so run down it's power cell VERY quickly and probably short out it's "power carying" circuits as well.

As for a wet saber to work, wouldn't that depend on that particular saber design?
I mean, some sabers may be water proofed where as others may just spontaeneously explode (exageration, but you get the point).

[Lance Freestar]

As to the statement that lightsabers are shut off by the water, that is only if they have electronic components. All the old sabers had electric switches to turn them on, but newer sabers have the option of being ignited by the force without using electronic components.
If I had to use any weapon underwater for any reason, I would probaly use a Depth Charge, even if someone was trapped on something. BLAM!!! Your free now!!!

[Charley]

Originally posted by Lance Freestar
As to the statement that lightsabers are shut off by the water, that is only if they have electronic components. All the old sabers had electric switches to turn them on, but newer sabers have the option of being ignited by the force without using electronic components.
If I had to use any weapon underwater for any reason, I would probaly use a Depth Charge, even if someone was trapped on something. BLAM!!! Your free now!!!

What?

Oh, and what?

You lose at the internet.

[ReaperFett]

I found what he said perfectly understandable Charley. He said that the old sabres were electric, but newer ones can be ignited due to the force. What's confusing in that?

[Charley]

That such a thing is the most retarded concept in all the universe.

Thats like saying that my lightbulb is powered by the souls of the damned. Stupid.

[Shanaria Fabool]

A lightsaber can not be powered BY the force, but one can be built so that it can only be turned on WITH the force. All lightsabers require electrical componets, but the one that can be turned on by the force can be conctructed in a manner that it is water tight...

[Charley]

Then there's that whole emitter thing.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Emitter? I'm afraid i'm not too familiar with the schematics of a lightsaber.

[Neyasha]

The emiter is the part of the lightsaber where the blade comes from...

[Wei Wu Wei]

^_^; I knew that...no, no I didn't.

[Marcus Telcontar]

A lightsabre constructed to be turned on by the force because.... it needs to be water resistant?

What the f.........?

The clear lack of knowledge of electronics is astounding right now.... you DO know that there is such a thing as a water proof switch right? And that normal everyday electronics can be waterproofed / water resistant easily?

Why the hell would you want to do somethign as retarded as have a force activated sabre? Gee, it's going to be useful when your needing your concentration when being shot at or your hurt or in a situation where you cant use the Force for some reason. And what if you need you sabre to be weilded by someone else?


Originally posted by Agent Charley
Then there's that whole emitter thing.

Which is still going to stop you from using the sabre underwater. As has been explained already.

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Marcus Elessar

Why the hell would you want to do somethign as retarded as have a force activated sabre?
Who knows, but it doesn't warrant you calling them a retard.



And what if you need you sabre to be weilded by someone else?
I believe that one of the Zahn (Or Stackpole) novels or short stories had Mara Jade's ship had some controls hidden away, meaning they could only be used by the force. What if she wanted the ship to be controlled by someone else? I don't know, but it means someone she DOESN'T want to control it can't.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Who knows, but it doesn't warrant you calling them a retard.


Then can I call them as having the electronics knowledge of a five year old? Because that's what it is. Water resistant switch gear is simple, effective and availible at your local Tandy store.



I believe that one of the Zahn (Or Stackpole) novels or short stories had Mara Jade's ship had some controls hidden away, meaning they could only be used by the force. What if she wanted the ship to be controlled by someone else? I don't know, but it means someone she DOESN'T want to control it can't.

If there is one thing I hate and that is strawman arguments. A Strawman is the introduction of a completely irrevalent, offtopic and inarguably true point. So what if she did? Does that have anything really to do with the main discussion? I only included one minor point to facilitate why a Force ignited sabre is a bad idea. I'm not going to play any further with this strawman.

[Ka' el Darcverse]

With as much multi-tasking that goes on with the Force that goes on here at this board a simple task such as using the Force to ignite their saber wouldn't affect anyone the persons reactions all that poorly

And what the hell is wrong with everyone, lets insult people simply because they disagree with you or they don't have a firm grasp of *gasp* electronics or physics *gasp* and with the fact that many of our members are younger people I'm sure they don't have alot of experience with wiring and electronics. They simply gave an answer to try and help, they didn't do it so that people with inferiority complexes could get their jollys off insulting them. So why don't we all grow up a bit and just disagree with them and keep the personal comments and insinuations to a minimum

[imported_Firebird1]

Umm..
Well seeing that Yoda could get an X-wing out of the swamp, I'd think that waterproofing was common place.

In reality, it's more up to the persons prefrences. If your going to fight an underwater battle, and you want to use your lightsaber, you can.

[Sanis Prent]

No, thats just silly.

[Lance Freestar]

I wouldn'tr fight underwater with a lightsaber unless:
1) I had a suit with all kinds of visions that would let me see through the bubbles, and would protect me from the scalding water.
or
2) I go super fiction, and make a claim that I am unaffected by the bubbles, and heat becuase it doesn't exist.

[Shanaria Fabool]

Originally posted by Marcus Elessar
A lightsabre constructed to be turned on by the force because.... it needs to be water resistant?

What the f.........?

The clear lack of knowledge of electronics is astounding right now.... you DO know that there is such a thing as a water proof switch right? And that normal everyday electronics can be waterproofed / water resistant easily?

Why the hell would you want to do somethign as retarded as have a force activated sabre? Gee, it's going to be useful when your needing your concentration when being shot at or your hurt or in a situation where you cant use the Force for some reason. And what if you need you sabre to be weilded by someone else?

Which is still going to stop you from using the sabre underwater. As has been explained already.

I'm sorry if my lack of knowledge in Electronics bothers you... I know that in one of the SW EU books one of the bad guys has a Lightsaber that could only be turned on with the force... But if I Remember corectly it was only used as a training tool to help the student with double tasking with the force...

[Vinny Red]

I was always under the impression that a lightsaber's blade did not throw any heat, but merely accelerated the atoms/particles around things and that's what allowed it to "cut" through things

[imported_Akrabbim]

Well, it doesn't give off heat, because it's contained within the mag field. However, when someone is hit by it, they break through the field, and it burns then. Thus when Qui Gon (sp?) tried to cut through the door in Ep 1, the metal was becoming molten. To the best of my knowledge, mag fields won't hold off water.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Vinny Red
I was always under the impression that a lightsaber's blade did not throw any heat, but merely accelerated the atoms/particles around things and that's what allowed it to "cut" through things


Particle acceleration/excitement produces energy, which is transferred as heat to surrounding particles. Energy is transferred from the sabre to an object, causing chemical bonds to break. The result is the object being cut.


A lightsabre has to have energy transfer in the form of heat, otherwise it violates some basic laws of physics.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Clausius and the Law of Entropy. Gotta love it. Then also the Law of Energy Conservation.

So, now I know why lightsabers can't be used underwater. That's cool. Thank you all for your help. Continue discussing if you would like, but no spamming please. I'd like this thread to remain informational, thanks. For mine and other people's reference. :)

[Lance Freestar]

A lightsabre has to have energy transfer in the form of heat, otherwise it violates some basic laws of physics.

And thus, we enter the realm of Science Fiction. Things are violate laws are welcome here.

[Preacher Blake]

That argument is really useless though. Were you free to violate anything you wish, there would be no basis for relation at all. You could do anything, without any possible need of explanation.

Sorry, that isn't going to happen.

[Miryan no Trunks]

It's science fiction. Not fantasy, Not fiction. There's a differance.

In fantasy/fiction, whatever special laws of reality people want to make up, go for it. It doesn't matter, it's your own world.

In Science Fiction, it can be a million years in the future where people can blow up a planet with a light handgun or something. It still has Science-based laws. Science based laws say if something generates extreme heat, it will heat what it touches. Water included.

To the main subject though.. None of this would result in lightsabers being useless in the rain, right?

[Mr Dust]

Doubtful... they'd just vaporize any drops that'd hit it.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

If lightsabers were useless in the rain then someone should have told Obi Wan before he tried using his to fight Jango Fett. ;)

[Miryan no Trunks]

ooooh, yeah, he did that there in the rain, didn'e.

Yeah.. I haven't seen Ep. 2 since the first day it was in theatres =^

[Charley]

Plus, you could use it in the rain in JK2. You even see the raindrops vaporize on the blade.

[Miryan no Trunks]

Alright, glad to know I wasn't assuming wrong then =)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Miryan is smrt! :)

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Agent Charley
Plus, you could use it in the rain in JK2. You even see the raindrops vaporize on the blade.

First seen I believe in Darksabre :)

[Charley]

Not seen, read.

[ReaperFett]

Read with your eyes, you saw the words, seen ;)

[Preacher Blake]

Let me put it another way.

The paper of some EU novels isn't fit enough to use as a loo roll...this most assuredly includes Darksaber, as well as the NJO and others.

[ReaperFett]

Have you read all of Darksabre and the NJO?

And let me just point out that you realised I was right, and so had to revert to insulting the books. I AM EENVEENSIBLE! :D

[Pierce Tondry]

Fett?

No.

Just.

No.

[Preacher Blake]

I've read Darksaber, and its horrid.

[ReaperFett]

And the NJO? How many of the 18 novels plus short stories and two e-books have you read?

[Preacher Blake]

I read enough of vector prime to throw it away in a storm of vitriol. Nothing I have heard of that series is remotely redeeming.

[ReaperFett]

That doesn't mean it is rubbish, it means that from what you have heard it is not to your tastes :)

[Shanaria Fabool]

Just for the record... I like Darksaber.... I like all the NJO books except Vector Prime, and the two that come right after Vector Prime(This is only because I REALLY Like Chewbacca)....

So Preacher, please don't try and sound like you know everybody's opinon on what is good reading, and don't cast judgment on a large series of novels is Bantha PooDoo just because you didn't like the part of the one book in it that you read.

[Charley]

OMG respect my opinion, am i rite grrlfriend?

Here's one for you :)

IMO, your opinion should eat a bag of hell.

(cue paradox, universe explodes)

That is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the retardation in the NJO has no bearing here. We have blissfully scratched that Zerg-wannabe abortion called the Vong from our RP, and thats kind of what we're talking about here.

[Morgan Evanar]

Have you read all of Darksabre Unforunately I have. What a terrible aberration of literature. Its a big steaming log on the bedsheets of the Star Wars universe.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Such colorful metaphor, Morgan. Very original. I thought we were referring to Darksaber for reference to lightsaber use underwater, not the Vong. NEver read the books myself, and most of you guys will probably tell me not to. But if you guys want to discuss the Vong, that's fine by me. Discussion of literature, or wannabe literature is fine too. I'd just like it made clear what it is we are discussing. kthnxbye.

[Morgan Evanar]

Discussion of literature, or wannabe literature is fine too. I'd just like it made clear what it is we are discussing. Thats cool. I'm aware of what the original topic. I think the more physics minded posters covered it well already, and I didn't have anything to add in that vein. If you're upset about the continued hijack of your thread, I appoligize.

[Charley]

Originally posted by Wei Wu Wei
Such colorful metaphor, Morgan. Very original. I thought we were referring to Darksaber for reference to lightsaber use underwater, not the Vong. NEver read the books myself, and most of you guys will probably tell me not to. But if you guys want to discuss the Vong, that's fine by me. Discussion of literature, or wannabe literature is fine too. I'd just like it made clear what it is we are discussing. kthnxbye.

Its more of a segueway. It was in another thread that somebody was discussing a lightsaber alternative based on the Vong's Dovin Basals. Sorry for the hijack, but I felt it needed addressing, and a good nipping in the bud.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Darksaber had nothing to do with the Vong, anyway.

[Charley]

No, that was just a terrible book. Blame Fett for a tangent ^_^;

[Lilaena De'Ville]

You helped a lot.

Now, back on the subject in the title plz. :)

[ReaperFett]

What is relevant is that the retardation in the NJO has no bearing here. We have blissfully scratched that Zerg-wannabe abortion called the Vong from our RP, and thats kind of what we're talking about here.
Any OFFICIAL word of this?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

That has always been the offical word, AFAIK.

Swfans started before the NJO series started, to integrate all of what occurs in the NJO into our storyline would be exhausting, etc etc.

The only thing HERE that had to do with the Vong was a group that failed, and TSE splitting apart and running off to beat them back. The Vong were beaten back way back in Wild Space and TSE never recovered and either did the Vong.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Oh, I don;t mind at all. If one issue is covered, please move on to the next. I just want to know what we're talking about is all. It's up in the air between how retarded the Vong are and how retarded the Darksaber series is (or isn't).

[Vinny Red]

FD - True....didn't really think of the latter. Kinda funny how everything falls back on basic principles

The worst that i have read out of the entire EU (which is a good portion), has got to be Splinter of the Minds eye

[ReaperFett]

Anyone see the Clone Wars cartoon, which apparently Lucas has been overseeing? Lightsabre working underwater.

[Sheyleigh Castille]

Yes, but that is a cartoon. Scientific laws are violated every thirty minutes in every cartoon ever shown. :p

[Ka' el Darcverse]

And they aren't in Star Wars? My mistake lol

So what is the official mod's decision espeically since it's Lucas approved now?

[Cizerack Hunter Forces]

He also approved of the Vong, so its pretty much a moot issue that we don't accept all things SW.

Using a lightsaber while underwater is a ridiculous concept, and I don't care who says otherwise.

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Cizerack Hunter Forces
He also approved of the Vong, so its pretty much a moot issue that we don't accept all things SW.

Using a lightsaber while underwater is a ridiculous concept, and I don't care who says otherwise.
First, he is taking a tighter reign over the EP1-EP6 work than the post EP6 work.

Second, I love the way that even if Lucas himself said they can work, you'd ignore it :)


EDIT - One thing to note of course, is it could be something other than a common Lightsabre modified. Could be a whollllllle new thingie :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

And I for one still dont frigging care. Ignitning something like that underwater is patently and obviously stupid. We've nuked other things that are so called canon that are retarded, this is just another one.

[Tear]

Realistically you could light a saber underwater but doing so would superheat the water..maybe not scolding you right away but the bubbles would blind you so unless you ignited for a quick second their wouldnt really be any put in using a saber underwater. Unless you were to try to cut through something quickly like a sewer grate or something.

It could work but itd be like shooting a gun in the dark. Your blind, cant see what your doing and theres a good chance you could hurt yourself. So unless you know what it is your going to hit and where it is ..theres no point in trying just my opinion

[Charley]

That's pretty much been said in this thread already, but yes you're correct.