Rhiannon/Syren/Heretic

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Rhiannon, our 'happy newbie' is creeping me out. She smells like LMJ. She was referred here by Syren. Syren has two profiles:

http://www.swforums.net/forum/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=2054
http://www.swforums.net/forum/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=3628 <--this one has a similar email, and is purportedly the one who referred Rhiannon and Heretic her co-workers. They have the same birthdays so I have no doubt it's the same person. Didn't run the IP yet on that one.

Heretic and Rhiannon have the same emails: rpghosts@syren.cc which makes them suspect of being the same person, although Heretic has only posted once, and so if I remember correctly that means his IP may not be able to be matched unless he posts more?

Anyway, Rhiannon acts the same way Lady Mara Jade did last time she infiltrated her way back to the boards again. Same stupid "hi Nathaniel" calling everyone by their character's first names, and stuff like that. It smells like her, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. I got like a 6th sense like feeling when I read her 'introductory' post. I ran her IP then and there, but found nothing. 'Cause I'm not supa l33t like some people.

Someone please tell me I'm full of it and Rhiannon is NOT LMJ, and I'll be happy. Until then, this is like an itchy scab. I gotta pick at it.

[Charley]

The moment I saw her post, it reeked of LMJ.

[Shawn]

I just did a tracert on Syren and it looks almost identical to one I did on Drucilla Ebony. I don't want to ban her offhand (since I likely won't be around to deal with the consequences), but I'm pretty damn convinced.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

arggggh *shakesfist* I hate being right. But Rie and Charley and I all felt the same way, so we couldn't ALL be wrong.

[TheHolo.Net]

Here is what I got for Drucilla:
C:\>tracert 64.161.81.242

Tracing route to adsl-64-161-81-242.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.161.81.242]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms (omitted for local routing privacy)
2 35 ms 30 ms 30 ms dnvrapanas12poola254.dnvr.uswest.net [63.231.81.254]
3 40 ms 29 ms 29 ms dnvr-agw1.inet.qwest.net [207.225.112.29]
4 36 ms 29 ms 29 ms thn-core-01.tamerica.net [206.196.128.246]
5 41 ms 29 ms 30 ms den-core-02.tamerica.net [205.171.8.89]
6 41 ms 30 ms 30 ms den-core-03.tamerica.net [205.171.16.18]
7 30 ms 30 ms 31 ms 208.172.173.89
8 61 ms 57 ms 57 ms dcr1-loopback.SantaClara.cw.net [208.172.146.99]
9 59 ms 57 ms 57 ms bpr1-so-0-0-0.SanJoseEquinix.cw.net [208.173.54.65]
10 57 ms 57 ms 57 ms bpr2-ae0.SanJoseEquinix.cw.net [208.173.54.86]
11 57 ms 57 ms 57 ms bb1-p6-2.eqsjca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.89.41]
12 58 ms 58 ms 57 ms bb2-p5-2.sntc01.pbi.net [64.161.1.53]
13 57 ms 58 ms 58 ms core2-p6-3.crscca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.241.201]
14 72 ms 71 ms 71 ms core1-p3-0.cranca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.242.186]
15 70 ms 71 ms 71 ms bb1-p11-2.lsan03.pbi.net [151.164.241.217]
16 71 ms 71 ms 71 ms dist2-vlan45.lsan03.pbi.net [67.116.100.68]
17 435 ms 296 ms 108 ms rback17-fe2-0.lsan03.pbi.net [64.161.163.215]
18 91 ms 89 ms 87 ms adsl-64-161-81-242.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.161.81.242]

Trace complete.Running a whois lookup on the final Ip puts it in California.

Here is what I get for Rhiannon:
C:\>tracert 216.214.210.175

Tracing route to tnt15b-175.chcg3.il.corecomm.net [216.214.210.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms (omitted for local routing privacy)
2 37 ms 29 ms 30 ms dnvrapanas12poola254.dnvr.uswest.net [63.231.81.254]
3 30 ms 29 ms 29 ms dnvr-agw1.inet.qwest.net [207.225.112.29]
4 35 ms 29 ms 29 ms thn-core-02.tamerica.net [206.196.128.215]
5 35 ms 30 ms 30 ms den-core-01.tamerica.net [205.171.8.85]
6 62 ms 56 ms 56 ms 63.211.236.217
7 61 ms 56 ms 56 ms ge-6-1-0.mp1.Denver1.Level3.net [64.159.3.205]
8 61 ms 55 ms 56 ms so-2-2-0.bbr1.Chicago1.level3.net [64.159.4.225]
9 62 ms 56 ms 56 ms pos8-0.core1.Chicago1.Level3.net [209.247.10.162]
10 56 ms 56 ms 56 ms gige2-0.ipcolo1.Chicago1.Level3.net [209.244.8.178]
11 64 ms 65 ms 64 ms 63.208.138.174
12 70 ms 66 ms 64 ms 426.at-0-3-0.rtr0.chcg4.il.corecomm.net [169.207.224.26]
13 67 ms 67 ms 66 ms core1-A6-0-7131.chcg3.il.corecomm.net [216.214.122.94]
14 69 ms 69 ms 69 ms tnt15.chcg3.il.corecomm.net [216.214.18.15]
15 352 ms 339 ms 361 ms tnt15b-175.chcg3.il.corecomm.net [216.214.210.175]

Trace complete.The final Ip of which looks to be in Illinios. A whois puts the ISP in Michigan. Another thing I notice that doesn't make me think its a proxy used to falsify the IP as one in another state is the fact that in just a couple days Rhiannon has had 9 different IP addresses all with the same ISP. Not an easy task to pull off with a proxy.

I will say that Heretic, Rhiannon, and Syren Wyssholt do all have identical IPs, which does seem odd.

I see no concrete evidence as of yet that Rhiannon is LMJ.

[Sanis Prent]

So we have conflicting reports?

[TheHolo.Net]

I need to see Shawn's trace route. I only have one IP listed for Drucilla and got no where near a match for the IPs as you see.

So right now I have zero hard evidence, just a case of "he said she said" and "I feel they feel".

[Sanis Prent]

Understood.

[Pierce Tondry]

I don't feel like this is LMJ. I'll grant you the behavior and phrasing is similar, but it feels like she's "talking differently". From what I saw of her, LMJ had a certain directness about how she got to the point no matter who she was. Rhiannon seems a bit more cheerful/bubbly and prone to distraction.

I was a bit wary when Rhiannon mentioned that she knew Syren, because I don't know Syren and the way she talks you'd think Syren was someone of note. That's about the only thing that has set off my oddity sense so far. And it is possible (but incredibly unlikely) they've got some kind of reasonable OOC connection we don't yet know about.

But I'll definitely keep my eyes open and share what notes I get. Maybe ask a few questions, too.

Edit: Well, at least until you guys work out the IP trace to some conclusion.

[Figrin D'an]

I have to admit... I kind of got the same vibe from her as many of you did. Hopefully, we're all wrong in our perceptions. :\

[Marcus Telcontar]

Personally, I dont feel LMJ is Rhiannon. Just a look at the trace SW.Fans provided is enough to cast large doubts on the dispersion and his analysis is correct as far as i can see.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

I think Rhiannon is Darth Syren = Dark Lady Iceheart from TC. She lives near Chicago. I talked to LV about this last night and thats who I think it is....Mindy. :\

[Dasquian Belargic]

I agree with Daiq on this one.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

Listen, pretty boy, youd better agree with everything or I'll...

:spank


Seriously, though....Im fairly confident about it being Mindy...like 90%. She did this before - its in one of the threads here - where she comes in and acts all nooby like. It doesnt sit well with me.

[Pierce Tondry]

Speaking of this, I happen to think Daiq is right as well...

I did a bit of research last night. Seems that Syren has links to other RP boards plus a DeviantArt art account in that signiture of hers. The DeviantArt account is from back around Spring of this year I believe and it appears legitimate. This account has personal details scattered about from which I've gleaned that there is a couple named Mindy and Jeff involved in the link and they have some description of hosting service on which they keep material related to certain IRC RPs and e-mail accounts, such as the ones they've given SWFans. I can't tell whether Rhiannon is Syren/Mindy herself, but I think the two names have a close enough OOC connection that they bear watching. I also think Heretic is definitely Jeff.

(End infiltration report) :)

[Shawn]

I'm not quite sure how you copy-pasted the entire thing, but I'll trust your experience in doing this over my own. They still looked pretty close to me, but I hadn't bothered to do a whois on the final IP.

[Morgan Evanar]

She's not new, thats for sure. What creeping me out is Carlos used the same ISP at some point. He was in Chicago for a little while, I know that. I ran a lot of traces after having some of the same stuff pointed out. Unless LMJ moved to Chicago or is proxying in, thats where they live. And proxy through dialup blows. These are dialup accounts, I checked her IP when its live.
Darth Syren = Dark Lady IceheartI don't know who she is, but you're likely right.

I'm not going to can this person outright but the bubbly omg lol types get on my nerves.

[Charley]

Originally posted by Morgan Evanar
I'm not going to can this person outright but the bubbly omg lol types get on my nerves.

Agreed. She's just too chipper for me. I may have to eat her soul or something.

[Ryla Relvinian]

*hands him a bottle of hot sauce*

There ya go, helps the soul go down easy. ;)

But seriously, did said "Mindy" person get banned or something? I am enough aware of the LMJ situation but this is a new name to me.

[Sanis Prent]

No, she's clean. Just acted in a way that was a waaay creepy parallel to LMJ.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

So the feelings were wrong? *scratches off Possible Force Sensitivity on her list* That's the last time I trust my feelings! Darn you Obi Wan! *shakefist*

:p Seriously, I'm glad I was wrong. :D

[Ryla Relvinian]

Well, if y'all sensed something strange, I'd say go with it. She's already established that she's lying, so methinks we should just keep watching her anyway.

[imported_Eve]

We put a bit in the new FAQ that says you have to disclose your other identities to certain people. That, and sock puppets aren't allowed (even though she doesn't quite fit sock puppet-ness). These combined make it not cool for people to turn up as new, when they're not.

[Ryla Relvinian]

So it's ok for her to claim to be a new character, as long as she discloses her identity to those who need to know?

[AmazonBabe]

I sent Ogies a PM two days ago concerning Rhiannon cause she was just rubbing my gut the wrong way.

I didn't want to bring it up in here so as not to cry wolf.

While her posts read a LOT like LMJ, and while the pictures and some other similarities in the posts are very much like her, I was told by another source that it was possibly someone else...

Basically everything that's been discussed in here, I spoke to a couple of authorities here.

In any event, I'm still going to keep an eye on her and see if and when she slips up. My gut is still not happy, and I tend to follow it closely as it's never let me down before of course, there's always a first time...).


So it's ok for her to claim to be a new character, as long as she discloses her identity to those who need to know?

I would think that wouldn't be such a bad idea, especially if she's been known in the past to make trouble.



NOTE: I wanted to add, while the IPs may say one thing, I have to be honest I don't go soley by that, and I really don't trust it much either. Reason: because LMJ did know how to mask her IPs. I know some of you don't like Soth, but he did witness her (sometime when she'd gone to his place way back when) do an IP mask... some sort of hacker stuff was involved as well.

Now, I wasn't there, so i can't tell you exactly what she did, so this info is sketchy at best.

But there are just too many similarities in the posting (RP posts) between Rhiannon and LMJ. Little things, but they're there.

I've just got a bad feeling about this, and I can't get the feeling out of my gut.

[Morgan Evanar]

I wanted to add, while the IPs may say one thing, I have to be honest I don't go soley by that, and I really don't trust it much either. Reason: because LMJ did know how to mask her IPs. I know some of you don't like Soth, but he did witness her (sometime when she'd gone to his place way back when) do an IP mask... some sort of hacker stuff was involved as well. No offense to Soth, but he never appeared as the most tech literate individual. I could be wrong. To some people, running an IP trace or a ping looks like hacking. I wasn't there though.

[imported_Eve]

The reason people are suppossed to disclose alternate identities is to prevent infiltration. If this chick is going to be part of a group, she has to disclose to those group leaders who she is (and anyone else she is).

From the FAQ (Section III.B.1):

If you wish to join an individual roleplaying group with a secondary or alternate character you must inform said group beforehand that you are playing a secondary or alternate character, and then request permission to be allowed to join said group with the secondary or alternate character. It is left up-to said group to decide if the you are permitted to join or not.

Also, you must inform any groups that you are already a member to that you are roleplaying another character in another group.

[Figrin D'an]

LMJ always struck me as being far better at "social engineering" than actual computer and networking skill. *shrugs*


The trace is reasonable enough evidence to support that it's not LMJ, unless she moved to Chicago. Watching her can't hurt I suppose, so long as people avoid jumping the gun on accusing her of anything.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

We've had at least one other person start new accounts and pretend to be new comers while joining groups. He's being watched, afaik.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

Out of curiosity, why cant we have sock puppets? I really like my Dick Tator.....whats wrong with them?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Read the FAQ. Sock puppets for the purpose of trolling, infiltrating, insulting other posters, etc etc...Dick Tator is fine.

[imported_Eve]

Actually I think that part of the FAQ was always there. I didn't write it.

[DarthHERA]

Alarm bells always go off in my head when someone is so unabashadly declaritive of how "new" they are.

Genuine New ppl rarely do this and then go on to make suggestions and longwinded posts of their opinions and invite all and sundry into their roleplays.

IMO it just doesnt fit.

I thought it might be someone we all knew from before, but honestly couldnt figure who.

If this is either of the two girls in question - they have started off with a lie. You'd think people would learn.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

People do it all the time, unfortunately.

[AmazonBabe]

The trace is reasonable enough evidence to support that it's not LMJ, unless she moved to Chicago.

There is a possibility she did do this. I need to talk to Martin (Saurron) and/or Mark (another one of her Bakersfield friends) to be sure. There was some talk of her moving up to that area, I'm just not sure whether it did happen or when (if it did).

Also, when doing IP traces on her IPs, Jeseth's name popped up. Now, doesn't Jeseth live in Chicago? Also, weren't Jeseth and LMJ good buds? I seem to remember them being good friends (if not more), but my memory is sketchy at best about this info.

[Master Yoghurt]

I personally feel very confident it is not LMJ

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Jeseth does not live in Chicago, he only wanted to, afaik.

[Pierce Tondry]

I must've missed something. Where did she/they lie?

PS. Carlos (Jeseth) lives in Florida last I heard.

[Lady Vader]

My bad. You're right... Jes does live in FL.

As to where she lied... Rhiannon said Syren was her friend that had directed her here to SWF. The IPs show Rhiannon and Syren to be the same person. So that would be where she lied, I would think.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Lady Vader
As to where she lied... Rhiannon said Syren was her friend that had directed her here to SWF. The IPs show Rhiannon and Syren to be the same person. So that would be where she lied, I would think.


Maybe she has multiple personality syndrome... :uhoh

[Pierce Tondry]

That's jumping the gun, IMO. Yes it looks suspicious, but until you can prove there's not separate people behind that IP, I don't think it's wise to go declaring it an out-and-out lie, especially since Syren Wyssholt admitted to having past association with SWFans in this thread (http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=579369#post579369). They could be roommates, for all we know.

There's just no sense in blackballing her until she does something definitively wrong. We know to keep our eyes open now; let's leave it at that.

[DarthHERA]

Originally posted by DarthHERA
Alarm bells always go off in my head when someone is so unabashadly declaritive of how "new" they are......



If this is either of the two girls in question - they have started off with a lie. You'd think people would learn.



Why act like you are completely new to these forums when, in fact, you aren't.

But please note - I said if it is either of these two.

edit: I am going by Rhiannons post, Brian.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Lady Vader
My bad. You're right... Jes does live in FL.

As to where she lied... Rhiannon said Syren was her friend that had directed her here to SWF. The IPs show Rhiannon and Syren to be the same person. So that would be where she lied, I would think. There is no proof of a lie about their being two different people. We cannot be positive that one IP range means one person. I know back when my brother and I were both posting regularly that we could have looked like the same person via IP. And even now we look quite similar via IP even though we live over an hour away from each other but have the same ISP. This situation could be similar.
Originally posted by DarthHERA
Why act like you are completely new to these forums when, in fact, you aren't.

But please note - I said if it is either of these two. This is more where I am leaning, because I think it was syren that tried pulling that not all too long ago here before, at least once before and maybe twice..

[Morgan Evanar]

Carlos visited Chicago for a while. I have no idea where he lives right now. Frankly, if I never see him again, that would be divine.
We cannot be positive that one IP range means one person. I know back when my brother and I were both posting regularly that we could have looked like the same person via IP. And even now we look quite similar via IP even though we live over an hour away from each other but have the same ISP. This situation could be similar. No kidding. Exempting the fact that Shawn occasionally posts from my house, we probably have half a dozen overlapping IPs anyway. Yay dynamic IPs from the same provider in the same town.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I do think, however, that there are situations where words speak louder than IPs, as it were, meaning that if this many people are smelling a foul, there's a high likelyhood that there is something going on.

But that's just my take on it. :)

[Zasz Grimm]

It is Mindy, or at least, I think it is. And I've roleplayed with her at TC / old EZboard stuff with Jake (Icon / LDV / LDM *hopefully Eve/ Hera / Daiq remember him).

I think her old boards are still up, after work I'll try and find them to re-check writing style.

But I'm most certain it's her.

And she is no Newbie, that much is obvious. I think she was at SWRPG for a bit. I could be mistaken.

If it is her. Watch out. She's a Dara in the making. Always has been.

[Marcus Telcontar]

The infiltration rule quote refers specifically to groups like GJO and TSO, not to the board in general. It was also written originally by myself years ago when infitration was first banned IIRC and the rules for infiltration much tougher than now and paranoia was rampant.

really tho, it is up to the groups to decide what infiltration is for themselves and if someone gets charged with it, it needs to be the groups who bring evidence to the admins. I think most people have it clear how serious infiltration is, tho it might not hurt to have a reminder posted.

Be that as it may, I dont give a rats arse who this person is, or if they are claiming to be new or whatever. I really dont, because it's generally not anyone's business. IF someone wants to be idiot OR make a genuine fresh start, that's up to them and up to them to tap a group admin ont he shoulder if they wish to join a group.

If, OTOH, they dont join a group and go play with themselves or others, then the issue of who it is becomes as far as I am concerned, mute. I take the view that everyone has a right for privacy, except as above in regards to groups. and then it shouldnt go beyond a group admin unless the person in question chooses to say something.


There's just no sense in blackballing her until she does something definitively wrong. We know to keep our eyes open now; let's leave it at that.

And that, as a final word, I agree with.

Edit : Hmmm, seems to read like I'm being unnecessary asshole and harsh there. Apologies, it wasnt intended.

[Master Yoghurt]

Although harsh/blunt or however one may perceive Marcus post I.. tend to agree with him. Ultimately, its up to the groups themselves to form a policy and enforce the rules. Of course, the board staff has a duty to keep an eye on posters who attempts to infiltrate or otherwise cause trouble, but the general principle here is innocent until proven otherwise.

[DarthHERA]

Originally posted by Master Yoghurt
Of course, the board staff has a duty to keep an eye on posters who attempts to infiltrate or otherwise cause trouble, but the general principle here is innocent until proven otherwise.

I get the idea that it was for this reason that this thread was started - "keeping an eye" and to share general misgivings about this poster.


Marcus, your point is valid enough, but my personal opinion is that if a person wants to start fresh or be anonymous whatever, thats fine - just spare us the "Im so new, can someone help me dumb blonde routine" Quite frankly it annoys me and makes me wonder their motive for such a charade. As I stated before, alarm bells go off in my head when a person does this.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Marcus, your point is valid enough, but my personal opinion is that if a person wants to start fresh or be anonymous whatever, thats fine - just spare us the "Im so new, can someone help me dumb blonde routine" Quite frankly it annoys me and makes me wonder their motive for such a charade. As I stated before, alarm bells go off in my head when a person does this.

Believe me, I tend to see it your way. IMO, a person who wants a genuine new start they shoud do it quietly, without fan fare and without drawing attention to themselves. And the ones who are worth a damn will stay quiet.

Oddly enough, I seem to only really remember these noisly non n00bs starting this type of thing this year.....?

[Ryla Relvinian]

Hmm, must be a new trend.

Oh goody. :p

[SAURRON]

Odd thing is, when I wrote a small bio on Saurron I wrote the one that turned him was his first wife.


Drum Roll

Bet you cant guess what her name was.

[Lord Soth]

LOL... :lol



What a coincidence...

[DarthHERA]

Mrs Saurron?


Rhiannon, Im guessing - but Im missing the connection...?

[Lady Vader]

I... think I've made the connection... maybe... o_O

Maybe not...?

Ah, dammit Saurron, you and your riddles! :p

[SAURRON]

I know, but still it is weird.

Actually, so I wouldn't be copying the...makes the

" quote un quote fingers sign"

intelectual creation or what ever *&^$l you call it i changed her name to Rhian.

If it wasn't for her 69 b day claimed i would seriously trip.

That name is from an old fleetwood mac song of the same name.

Which is where I got it.

Go figure.

[Morgan Evanar]

Uhhhh... ok.
http://panic.hopto.org/misc/macros/shumagorath-pythonwhat2.jpg

[Ryla Relvinian]

Run away! Run away!

[Lady Vader]

Wow... I think that explaination sailed clear over my head... O_o