Bar & Grill Discussion

[Figrin D'an]

Referencing this (http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31963) thread...


The main topic isn't what I really care about... we have rules about fights in the bar and getting them approved and such. I would, however, like to bring up something that Lion pointed out in his post.




Originally posted by Lion El' Jonson
Sejah is quite correct. The Bar and Grill's bouncers include Lochabre, who quite literally spends his day pretending to be a statue, and The Shambler, a 12 foot tall monster that'd be quite happy to give you the nickname "Omelette Face". Maybe I mixed them up, I can't remember.

Anyways, weapons of any kind aren't allowed in the Bar and Grill. I believe nasty fights break out in the OOC forums whenever somebody tries to start a fight in the Bar and Grill without permission.

Thirdly, the Bar and Grill is not just for Jedi. It is usually frequented by members of the New Republic Navy, NRSF, SecCorps, the ODST's, and any of 100 other military branches. There's usually a few squads of troops hanging around outside with heavy weapons.

And, as you're not getting acronyms too well...

New Republic Navy: Self Explanatory
NRSF: New Republic Special Forces, the "Railgun Toters"
SecCorps: Sector Corps, the "Force Hunter" boys
ODST's: Orbital Drop Shock Troopers, the infamous "101st Helljumpers", Rapid Deployment Shock Troops

Fourthly, the B&G is located on Coruscant, the seat of the New Republic's Government and the home of the Jedi...not a good idea attracting attention there, even if you want your characters dead: Governments don't take well to organizations whose members start battles in crowded city streets.

There's plenty of other legitimate ways to kill your characters that wouldn't involve this many entanglements. Think of something simple.

And, incidentally, Endless Waltz was a disgrace to the Gundam Wing series and it saddens me that the anime had to end with that as its last hurrah.



There are certain things he mentions here that have really bugged me for a long time.


First of all... the "bouncers." Why do we have two monsters, akin to Rancors, sitting around in a public restaurant? Yeah, sure, the OOC concept of them was rather funny for a while, but realistically... it strikes me as being very dumb. Do we really need them?


Secondly... the NR peoples. I don't have an issue with them hanging around and using it for RP, but I once again find it incredibly unrealistic to have numerous troops from 5 different branches of the NR military walking around, fully armed, in what is essentially a building open to the public. How much IC "security" does the B&G really need? We've got Jedi around all the time, and maybe we have a few armed doorman or something. It's overkill to the extreme, IMO. Everyone knows the OOC rules we have about starting fights in the B&G. It's in the FAQ, and it's posted in the forum itself I believe. Not to mention that, if someone does get permission to start a fight, it's likely to get quashed almost immediately because of the ridiculous number of people that would be ready to pounce on an open fight thread. That makes for a really quick way to kill any fun.


In general, a lot of these outlandish policies that were instituted regarding the B&G are simply outdated now. In the past, when we had issues with people starting fights and doing crazy stuff (like trying to firebomb the building), we countered with crazy stuff in kind (the bouncers, the insane NR presence). I guess I would like to think that RP, and most of it's major participants, have evolved since then, and that our rule base and moderator presence is strong enough to eliminate much of the sketchy and wacked-out reminants from the old days of RP.



Questions, opinions, and/or rude comments are always welcome.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Do we really need them?

No.


How much IC "security" does the B&G really need? We've got Jedi around all the time, and maybe we have a few armed doorman or something.

:thumbup I think maybe just one or two (maybe Jedi?) guards.


No one starts stuff in the B&G anyway. They know that you have to go through OOC to do it, so it almost seems redundant to have any sort of security there what so ever - save for to remove weapons-, when there are bound to be Jedi Knights/Masters around.

[Morgan Evanar]

I agree, this is pointless shit. Flush it away.

The NRSF presence is pratically non-existant. They're in an undisclosed location when not on active duty.

[AmazonBabe]

Agreed.

The monsters are a bit over-doing it, and I, like Fig, just thought it was a fun thing... not a serious thing.

As to the over-zealous security... it's really not needed at a place that is frequented by Jedi. Someone'd have to be really stupid to cause a fight.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yeah, the monster bouncers, while highly amusing OOC, are odd IC, you're all correct there.

This bar is located on the Temple grounds, correct? I mean, that's what I always thought, so it makes sense that there would be heaping handfulls of Jedi there, but I don't see any problem with any other groups frequenting it. Making it their own, yes, but just showing up, no.

There are a lot of people here who have characters with connections to these groups, so them showing up isn't too odd, IMO. Having them there for security seems to be overkill. :)

[Morgan Evanar]

What Lion said is really bullshit though. The military presence would be small, because while the headquarters for various organizations are in district, the only _close_ thing is the senate building.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Well, is it possible that he's just misinformed? I mean, perhaps this is not exactly common knowledge? Obviously, there must have previously been a strong military presence to warrant such an assumption.

[Figrin D'an]

It might be a good idea to lay out a basic IC description of where certain highly frequented locations are in reference to one another. I think everyone has a slightly different perception on this. I know I've always interpretted the B&G as being not within the Jedi Complex, but close enough to be within walking distance, and the Senate building/government district being relatively close by as well.

But, that's another discussion I suppose.


Frankly, the only reason why there ever was a strong military presence at the B&G is because it stemed from the same source of the two "bouncers."


Besides that I would like to slap Lion for his overpresumption on more than one issue... the simple fact is that he, like a lot of others, just kind of go with the flow and end up assuming stuff to fill in the gaps between facts.


At least we seem to agree that this needs to change.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I think your idea is good. :) Certain things are always good when left up to interpretation (for example, there always seem to be several more darkened corners than are architecturally possible) but other things, such as the military presence and location, are good to have clarified.

[Morgan Evanar]

Frankly, the only reason why there ever was a strong military presence at the B&G is because it stemed from the same source of the two "bouncers." Whats the address, I'm gonna mail this man a cigar. Some of his misconception comes from the fact that at one point, there was a large military presence at the B&G. On Arcan. Also Mark's idea.
I know I've always interpretted the B&G as being not within the Jedi Complex, but close enough to be within walking distance, and the Senate building/government district being relatively close by as well.You and I are on the same page.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Hmm, so this is another thinly-veiled way to clean out some of the Aussie posturing, eh? ;)

[Morgan Evanar]

It does that, but we're cleaning out stuff that doesn't make sense. Its like a broken 286 you have in the clothset.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Hmm, may I ask what's next on the agenda?

[Morgan Evanar]

Whatever else we find that really bugs us collectively and doesn't make sense?

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Morgan Evanar
Whatever else we find that really bugs us collectively and doesn't make sense?


Exactly. I brought this up because, resulting from discussion from the thread I linked, I found something that I felt should be changed. If anyone else feels similarly about something else, they should feel free to bring it up.

[Estelle Russard]

Fig's post #8 is basically how I saw everything situated in my minds eye also. It makes no sense to have a bar that is open to the public at large being within the Orders grounds...when the Orders location is secreted.

I also didnt realise Locabre was around all the time. I thought he just showed up once and a while. As for the other creature - its the first Ive heard of it.

I think perpetuating the idea of a heavy military presence was necessary back in "the day" when Sith seemed endlessly amused to riot in the B & G etc.

As you stated Fig - rpers have generally matured in this area and an updated descrpition is a good idea.

Might I just add, its nice to have people looking at things in new lights. All the discussions lately have been good imo.

[Morgan Evanar]

The location of the Order would be pretty much impossible to hide on Coruscant. Its not a big secret? And who said it was? O_o

[Figrin D'an]

Yeah... the location of the Order became public knowledge once we moved back to Coruscant. It was only a secret when we were in the Yavin system.

[AmazonBabe]

Well, I'm on the same page as Fig and Morg and Estelle (refering to Fig's post #8).

Ya know... a map of what it looks like (however crude) might not be a bad idea.

[Estelle Russard]

I had always thought that when it moved to Coruscant, its exact location was still not known.

doh

[Figrin D'an]

So, it would seem we're agreed on the two main points

- The bouncers get donated to the Coruscant Zoo

and

- NR Troops check their arms at the door, just like everyone else.

[Morgan Evanar]

Yep.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Heh, yes to all. :)

[Figrin D'an]

I'm gonna do some re-editing on the FAQ then. If someone would like to update the "Rules" post in the B&G, that would be spiffy.

[Ryla Relvinian]

*scampers off*

Sure.

[Figrin D'an]

Looks good. :)

Also, I unstuck the "Spamming Notice" thread in Arcan IV... the policy on that is in the FAQ, and people should know better. Helps reduce the clutter at the top of the forum a little.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yes, good call. I sometimes get the feeling that everybody just ignores the stickied threads because there are always so many of them. :) oh well...

Edit: Other things I've noticed of the nit-picky variety:

-Welcome Crew is down to 2/5, now that Long-Haul Hazzard and the Xazzle are gone. Terran probably isn't a good candidate right now either. Pick some new ones?

-"Access and post rules" thread can be deleted. It is redundant, now with your post up.

-The other access thread is good, but can't these be handled without a thread, and via a PM to one of us?

[Figrin D'an]

Yeah, I tend to think that at times as well...

Maybe we should consider consolidating some stuff?

[Ryla Relvinian]

*poke*

Get online, you. ;)

[AmazonBabe]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
So, it would seem we're agreed on the two main points

- The bouncers get donated to the Coruscant Zoo

and

- NR Troops check their arms at the door, just like everyone else.

:: Nods head imphatically. ::