Two years now have passed....

[Park Kraken]

Since the World Trade Towers were brought down, and the Pentagon was hit. I think the total "Innocent" people killed in this dastardly attack stands at 3,016. Since then New York has cleaned up, been rebuilt, and now runs normally, except for the absence of the WTC. Since then we have had two wars to oust the Muslim Terroists who plotted and carried out the attacks, first Afghanistan, the training ground of Al-Qaida, and then Iraq, with Saddam being a potential supplier of weapons and materiels to Al-Qaida as well as harbouring them. Other places that need to be taken care includes Somalia with so many criminal organizations, and warlords. Somalia is like a weapons market for any potential terroists groups. It's like what I heard on the MJ & BJ Morning show. This isn't like other wars that we have fought in our history. We can't just wave our hand and expect the terroists to go away. I say that this war will last at least 20-25 years. Al-Qiada isn't a soveriegn nation, it's a group of people, spread across the world, that will not rest until it collapses the US. This will be a long term war.

Are there any things anyone wants to say about 9/11 and it's aftermath? Any comments?

[imported_Marcus]

and then Iraq, with Saddam being a potential supplier of weapons and materiels to Al-Qaida as well as harbouring them.

This has been thoughily discredited for quite some time. Al-Qaida hated the Saddam regime just as much as Westerners. Just about every Islamic thought Saddam was Satan incarnate.

[Charley]

^^^

Correct.

[Sameer Aryan]

Originally posted by Admiral Kraken
I say that this war will last at least 20-25 years.

This is just an opinion, I'm not trying to judge the US, but I don't think you can "win" this war. There have always been bad people, there will always be. I just had to let this out, sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings or anything :\

[Duke Quells]

yeah, we can win this. We aren't trying to wipe out all bad guys, although we could if we wanted to.

[Crystal]

No we couldn't. There will always be "bad guys" :mneh


Did anyone see the twin light things they put up where the twin towers used to be?

[Morgan Evanar]

Its another unwinnable war, just like the war on drugs.

What a stupid idea.

[Ishan Shade]

Can't blame them for trying however.

I just would like to extend my simpathies to the families that had to go through that ordeal...long live freedom. :)

[imported_Marcus]

Originally posted by Duke Quells
yeah, we can win this. We aren't trying to wipe out all bad guys, although we could if we wanted to.

-_-

You are so wrong. History proves you wrong.


Originally posted by Morgan Evanar
Its another unwinnable war, just like the war on drugs.

What a stupid idea.

Truth. You cant beat terrorism by a gunfight - that just encourages it as many governments have found out. The IRA was never beaten and they were one of the most successful terrorist organisation known. 30 years they bombed and killed and they were only stopped by the Good Friday agreement. NOt by armed force. Hamas leaders are shot, missiled, bombed and yet, suicide bombers continue in greater numbers. Bali is bombed, JI leaders are arrested, the Marriot is then bombed. The cycle is not ended by more violence and war.

You can only stop drugs or terrorism by addressing the root causes of the problem - throwing moeny and weaponry at the problem will not, can not and wont work.

Terrorism in it's basic definition is an ideal. Terrorism has a cause, a reason. It is done by normally rational people with what they see are good reasons.

And I will now ask, what about the terroists the CIA have paid and used? What abotu the acts of terroism, they have instigated? I wonder how many know Sept 11 also holds signifigance for the people of Chile, when their legally elected government was toppled in a CIA backed coup by General Pinochet?

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Terrorism/Chile%20Coup_USHand.html

That's only one well verified example. You can go do soem research yourself and show those facts as stated are resonably accurate.

as I am not American, I have a different world view, a greatly different one to most of you. My world view is mainly shared by another overseas poster int he Box Office forum, Dutchy. It is usually self evident who posts from different countries, because of the world views.

I will tell you now, the world watched and sorrowed with Amercia when Sept 11 happened. The world supported the moves into Afghanistan. There was an outpouring of support and sypathy, even from normally hostile goverments and people - genuine sorrow and shock at such a callous and patheitc act that was WTC. Virtually every, single free thinking person on the global hlods the acts fo Sept 11 abhorrent and salutes the bravery of the emergency services, many whom also lost their lives.

However....

The USA has squandered much of this good will by beligerant and reckless acts int he name of the war on Terror since Afghanistan. I emphasis, the disliek of the USA is not of it's people, but of a reckless and hawkish government that has acted irresposibaly and without a clear plan. Iraq COULD have been done witht he support of the UN, but the USA chose a course of action that offended and offsided many nations and many, many people. 1 million people in australia alone marched on one day in Sydney alone to show disapporval of the Iraq war, a war that had given reasons (Mainly WMD's) which have fallen through.

I know this post will be unwelcome by some people, but I'm afraid my views are not unique around the world. It is not a hatred of the USA or trolling, but concern at the actions of the US government. Please understand that. It is not you, it is your government that scares us.

[Park Kraken]

Actually, there is one way through violence to win the war on Terroism..............
To look at it from another angle, there will only be bad guys so long as there are guys on the Earth. If every nation that had them launched all of their nukes, there would be more than enough to ensure that all mankind was wiped from the face of the earth. Where would your bad guys be then? Huh?

Edit: And what I meant by that is that I don't want to use nukes, I was just proving a point that there is always that last resort, that there is at least one way for all bad guys to be wiped out. Although, when we launched the nukes, two points:
1) Nobody would win, everybody would lose.
2) It would make us look like the terroists

[Jarek T'chort]

^What the hell?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Shut up, please.

[Morgan Evanar]

wtf.

I mean, really. Read some news or something. I'm going to go smack my head against a desk in the hope I can empty it.

[Park Kraken]

I was just pointing out a fact, nothing more, nothing less.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

do you ever really read what you write? i think you should start doing that

look at it from a realistic pov and tell me that what you just said makes sense in a mind bent on self preservation; which for the most part, is almost every mind on this planet - including world leaders

[imported_Marcus]

Originally posted by Admiral Kraken
I was just pointing out a fact, nothing more, nothing less.

.....

I just lost IQ points from the absurdity of both of those pots by you. Please do not hit the reply button again until you gain some common sense.

Nuking the planet to defeat evil???????????

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

Sounds a bit like the evil dudes in Rainbow 6 (the book)
Lets kill have mankind with this super plauge to keep humans in balance with nature blah blah blah.

Evil will always exist in the world, and we can't do crap about it.
For the longest time the average Joe American ignored the evil around the world. But with the attacks of 9/11 we found ourselves shocked and hurt, backed into a corner. Thus, we lashed out at our enemies with all we had. The people of the world finally saw the power in which the U.S. controls, and it startled them, and perhaps scared them. Growing afraid, they backed away proclaiming us to be a monster, a tyrant.
More fools are they.
If a wasp stings you, you crush it, and then go after the nest.

[Park Kraken]

I'm sorry you can't see this from my pov. This is why I often don't bring up serious subjects on these message boards. I approach everything from every possible angle and perspective. I saw that if humankind was extinct, that there was no way it could possibly produce evil, or much of anything at all.

Think about it, If Human kind was extinct, there is no way it can produce evil.

Now, before this conversation got sidetracked by my pointing out the obvious which will never happen, in reply to post #4, I just may agree with you there. This war may not be winnable, depending on which pov you are approaching it by. In some sense, we have already won, in other sense we have already lost, or are just beginning.

[General Tohmahawk]

Growing afraid, they backed away proclaiming us to be a monster, a tyrant.
More fools are they.

Wrong. We're scared of that power in the hands of people like Rumsfield who seriously thinks nukes are a viable option!

With great power comes great resposibility. If there are resposible people holding that power, there is nothign to worry about. The world is no longer sure that power the USA has is in responsible hands. God help us if Powell wasnt there to be a voice of reason to some of these idiot Hawks.


I'm sorry you can't see this from my pov. This is why I often don't bring up serious subjects on these message boards. I approach everything from every possible angle and perspective. I saw that if humankind was extinct, that there was no way it could possibly produce evil, or much of anything at all.

Think about it, If Human kind was extinct, there is no way it can produce evil.

GO

AWAY

[Silus Xilarian]

Im going to resist the urge to be harsh and utterly mean for once.



Kraken, you're digging a hole here. Apologize.

[Lion El' Jonson]

As an American, I have to say I agree with you, Marcus. I don't know whether it's my upbringing or the fact that I'm living overseas, but I truly believe that the Bush Administration has exploited the world's sympathies in order to pursue a personal agenda.

Kraken, we get it, but I think you're wrong. If the planet was nuked by humans just to kill off evil, then our last act would have been one of evil, which defeats the purpose. And I'm certain nobody has a way to justify killing off the human race with nuclear weapons. Even the trolls at Nationstates have enough common sense not to try that.

Before I moved to China, I was fully in support of turning North Korea into a radioactive parking lot for the next 100 years. However, now that I've seen North Korea firsthand, I can say that nuclear weapons are no way to pursue a war. Every nation that I suspect is on Bush's hitlist is toiling under a psychotic dictator or a corrupt government, and it is not the population's fault.

9/11 opened America's eyes to the opinions of other nations. It was a wakeup call. However, I feel we've been awake a bit too long, and it's time to go back to bed.