Proposed Master's Promotion process (Input welcome)

[Morgan Evanar]

Right now the way Master's are promoted are done sort of cloak and dagger, and a lot of people are pretty upset about that, as evinced by the thread that was closed.

So, a few of us Masters, Moderators and concerned individuals got together and wrote on desks and slept in laundry rooms. Somewhere during that time, we came up with a basic idea that we think would be pretty fair.

I'd like to make it perfectly clear none of this is written in stone. These are primarly my ideas and they don't always reflect of the rest of the staff or said individuals.

The gist of is that every Master has a vote yea or nay against any canidate Master. Voting would probably last a week, unless an awful lot of us were gone for some reason.

Any current Master can bring a canidate forward for promotion from Knight to Master. I think it would be nice if they dicussed it with the other masters beforehand, but thats just my opinion.

The floor is open, and even input from new Padawans is welcome, so don't be shy.

Note: I'm not claiming credit for the ideas, just their presentation in this form. No pre-offendedness, please.

[Estelle Russard]

A question:

As the number of Masters increases, will it still be the sum of ALL the Masters vote, or say those only on the Council?
And with the change of Councils each term, the Voting may differ.

(I dont really know if this matters or not, but it could make a difference over time)

[Morgan Evanar]

Any Masters who can vote in the week after a thread has been posted, IMO. The council tends to be pretty mixed between Knights and Masters.

[Tujk]

Personally I think there still should be some form of testing before hand... perhaps the master who proposes it does a RP with the knight in question, and then if they decided all's good, calls for the vote with the RP as evidence?

[Ryla Relvinian]

Well, I believe that this is the procedure for calling a test, not an automatic promotion. If I read this correctly, the steps would go as follows:

1. Nomination by any Master.
2. Vote, for one week, by all Masters who are currently able.
3. A Yea majority will then move the action towards a test, which can still be failed, even after a vote.

:)

[Kelt Simoson]

Yeah i like the nomination process, tis a grand idea Ryla :)

[Ryla Relvinian]

... Followed quickly by:

4. Wet TP and shaving foam initiation process. :)

[Tujk]

*grins* Makes me glad I'm not up for promotion/.

*nods* It wasn't clear and I wanted to make sure there was some sort of standardising testing done... though, I much prefer it done more... in the blind, rather than have someone know it was being done.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Well, hopefully, it is sort of sprung upon the knight in question. It's not like, "Well, ok, time to have a master's trial!" I mean, you'd probably realize what it was part way through but the important part is that you were nominated for it. :)

[Jax Ivanrue Tondry]

Ryla's suggestion is a sound one.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Me too. Minus the TP.

[Ryla Relvinian]

:p

NO! Must have TP!

[Tujk]

The thing is, with an open vote, even a dimwit can see and know to expect the trial...

[Figrin D'an]

There's nothing that says the vote has to be open for everyone to see. There are ways of accomplishing it without posting it in OOC or Avalon. All that is required is that current Masters be privy to the vote. From there, approaching a candidate and initiating the trial can be done however it is deemed necessary.

[Lion El' Jonson]

Interestingly enough, who will be judging the knight's trial? I take it that it'll be the masters (...^_^; ), but is there any sort of...rubric...that'll be used to grade the knight's performance?

As is apparent in the movies, and the EU, accomplishing a task isn't so much as important as how you completed that task.

Just throwing my two cents in, feel free to hammer my comments into the floor...:D

[Master Yoghurt]

Rylas suggestion is a good one. The nominations/voting/trial setup should be done in a discreete manner.

[Wei Wu Wei]

I have one thing that I am confused about.

Knights watch their Padawans threads to see how the Padawan is doing, and the Knight determines whether or not his Padawan is ready based from those threads. But the Knight has an obligation to check on his Padawan's threads.

Will the Masters do the same thing? Cause I don't see how a Master is going to be able to nominate any Knight without some sort of knowledge of the Knight's IC background.

[Figrin D'an]

Essentially, yes. Most masters have a tendancy to still read threads of their former students, even when that student has become a knight and may be approaching candidacy for becoming a master. The masters would also be keeping tabs on certain knights in general, to determine if they are ready.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yes, and if someone is nominated (and like Figgy said, there are many ways of not keeping it an open vote) we'd have all the more reason to keep track of threads.

[Morgan Evanar]

Before I vote on a Knight I am unfamiliar with I spend over an hour reading threads, so my vote is never arbitrary.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Ok. Just needed to know a little more about it. I agree with the new plan too.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I am, however, still much in favor of keeping this whole thing as secret as possible. Getting surprised by a promotion is, IMHO, the whole point. It shouldn't feel like an entitled position.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Yes. Surprises are cool. I just wanted to know how Masters go about selecting candidates is all.

[Tujk]

Oh I know there's ways and means of doing it without it being public knowledge. i just wanted to make sure it wouldn't become public knowledge who was on the table so to speak.

You need a person's natural reactions, not what they think is right.

[Zeke]

::stamps his approval on the idea::

[Estelle Russard]

I dont really know if a "trial" is absolutely necessary, myself.

I think a person who is considered for Master would have proven themselves over times and trials as a knight. (Obviously, thats why they were nominated) Why have one big task, when everyone's mind is pretty well made up anyway that they are worthy.

?

I can think of one person right off the bat that a "trial" would be redundant. Thats bound to be the case alot of the time.

[Morgan Evanar]

I agree with Estelle. If they're considered for Master its because their actions have continually waranted it. I see no need for a trial, aranged or otherwise.

[Pierce Tondry]

I think somewhere along the line, it seems to me that there should be an arranged test of ability. We used to do this kind of thing over at TBH, but for new members so we could get an idea of their talent and writing style and I believe it was a worthwhile idea. The problem with this idea was that we ended up restricting ourselves to the point where member inflow was next to nothing.

So perhaps shifting the test to the level of Knight and not Master would be wise? Because while Masters earn their rank through repeated proving of their nature and skill, Knights probably would not be as proven or reliable.

Just thoughts that seem to make sense.

[James Prent]

I think that's a great idea. Mostly what it seems like we go on for Knight 'trials' is their master's word. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't mean that the master is actually seeing the truth in their own padawan.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I happen to really like the trial system, both for Knight as well as Master candidates, and here's why;

- IC, it shows that, under an extraordinary circumstance, which is carefully monitored by other staff, this character has the wits and skills to succeed. Yes, many characters have proved their "worth," so to speak, over a long period. A formal trial gives a final clincher.

- Going further, for a character who has already proved their worth, one more test should not be that difficult.

- The rank of Master should carry with it knowledge and practical application as well as favor of your peers.

- OOC, it shows that the person behind the character has the technical abilities to handle a large test, and also does not feel entitled to the position.

Trials are a good thing. I would be strongly opposed to removing them in favor of a vote. Votes can be manipulated, but pure RP cannot. :)

[Wei Wu Wei]

I think the trial would be cool. Give the person a chance to think outside the box and RP his best.

[Morgan Evanar]

- IC, it shows that, under an extraordinary circumstance, which is carefully monitored by other staff, this character has the wits and skills to succeed. Yes, many characters have proved their "worth," so to speak, over a long period. A formal trial gives a final clincher. You have a point that I missed because my roleplays tend to be very organic. I usually have a begining and an end with a few milestones in between sometimes, but the vast majority is done on the fly. Not everyone operates in this fashion.

I think that the trials should be performed in a more innocous fashion than they were previously. More people would be aware that the trial was happening (only OOC), but it should really appear as just another roleplay to whomever is being Tried. The Trial also shouldn't be something pre-aranged IC, IMO. From an IC standpoint it would be a difficult set of events and little else.

[Pierce Tondry]

I agree with what Morgan and Ryla have said. I think there's one final benefit to a trial, though, which is that RPers like myself who have given their Jedi characters Dark Side tendencies can allow for potential failure in a trial situation and open up some interesting possibilities.

[Kelt Simoson]

I still also think that the trial is a good idea. However i think it should be a choice situation. Instead of a suprise attack "Hey, your a master now, congrats" People like myself and Loki do not want to be promoted so quickly for character development issues (i hope im speaking on behalf of Dru to, if not Dru correct me :)) So in round up i think that there should be a choice before assention.

Also i think if i were about to head up to Master, i would like a choice if i would like to attend a trial or not. College and OOC reasons hold me back from RPing alot these days. Perhaps a council vote for those who don't wish to do a trial, but the council perhaps are a bit tougher, read the characters latest threads to a fine degree, if that makes sense? Like a tougher vote situation, perhaps an interview? something that can be another option instead of a trial?

[Ryla Relvinian]

Well, in response to your very reasonable question, Pierce, hopefully these trials will, as Morgan said, be more organic and thusly more judged in relation to your character than to a higher standard. :)

This seems a more reasonable way to do it. Previously, promotions were done fairly infrequently (which I feel does not need to change!) and they were also done very secretively and to a different standard. I think it's in all of our best interests to have a very diverse set of Masters.

[Morgan Evanar]

This seems to be how we're collectively gravitating:

1) Trials remain intact. The IC componet is not an IC trial, but a roleplay. Arrangement is OOC, like any other thread. There is no IC "planning". All active Masters have input on the trial.

2) After the trial, all active Masters vote on x character's performance and merits based on the trial and prevoius roleplays.

The main point of contention seems to be the trial.

[Loki Ahmrah]

Originally posted by Kelt Simoson
People like myself and Loki do not want to be promoted so quickly for character development issues (i hope im speaking on behalf of Dru to, if not Dru correct me :))

Right you are there. I do not want my character to be a thirteen year old Jedi Master.

On topic: Sounds ideas all round. I did have something to contribute to this and I've forgotten. I'll be back.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Over and above all protocol changes, I also hope that these promotions continue at the same rate... slowly. It just would not do to have more Masters than Knights. It should be blatantly obvious that someone is ready for a promotion.

[Estelle Russard]

Originally posted by Ryla Relvinian
Over and above all protocol changes, I also hope that these promotions continue at the same rate... slowly. It just would not do to have more Masters than Knights. It should be blatantly obvious that someone is ready for a promotion.


Agreed