Where have all the Darksiders gone?

[Dasquian Belargic]

(Or: Random observations of a sleep-deprived mind)

I was just thinking last night about how GJO always has so many new peopel wanting to join up and become Padawans. We never seem to have enough people to train everyone that applies. Then it occured to me that the situation for the Darksiders seems to be the opposite.

Jedi - Masters < Apprentices
Sith - Masters > Apprentices

We have quite a lot of high-level darkside people who, for whatever reason, don't train people. TBH was a good example of this. Most of the strong, active darksiders were there and didn't train anyone.

It just struck me as odd. It used to be that everyone who joined seemed to want to become an evil-doer, but now its reversed. Why? Is it just not appealing anymore? I know TSO isn't really that active anymore and that probably doesnt help, since it is the only darkside faction directly represented on the board at the minute (not that I'm complaining - I'm trying to help out training people there).

Does anyone agree? Disagree? Comment and discuss :)

[Sanis Prent]

From Darth Vader's perspective, he really doesn't want to train some whelp that could possibly usurp him right now. He wants all the power for himself.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

I don't mind training, it's just that... yeah, I hate training threads. They end up being the same tripe over and over again. Plus I have a problem with not getting relpies up to them in a timely fashion.. so yeah.

I actually have had an idea brewing in my head for my... 2? 3? apprentices that I have here, but yeah, I've been thinking of just dropping them since I don't see myself as a good trainer.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Training does get repetitive, but I don't mind doing it that much. Sometimes you end up with a really good new rper to train and that makes it much more interesting, when you have someone good to bounce back off of.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Training can always be spiced up by doing one thing: drills.

During a training thread, it is not adequate to merely say, "This is how you do it."

You also have to let them practice under your supervision. Creating exercises for your students to do can be a very enjoyable experience.

For example, I am teaching my padawan, Kyle Krogen, how to Force Boost. So as practice, he is moving alot of heavy things around a junkyard as practice and community service.

Zeke trains his padawans by having them play games that involve what they have learned.

[Brielle Acaana]

Im not a master yet and in my own mind I dont think I would be good at training someone....but Id be wiling to give it a try for the right person. :\

[Dasquian Belargic]

The question isn't just 'why aren't you training people?!' - it's also 'why aren't people becoming darksiders anymore?'

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Dasquian Belargic
The question isn't just 'why aren't you training people?!' - it's also 'why aren't people becoming darksiders anymore?'

Who wants to be a villain and slaughter the innocent and torture good guys and plot galactic destruction, when you could be the hero and save the day and get the girl and live happy ever after once the villain has been vanquished? Yeah, it's a sarcastic/humorous sort of answer, but I really do think that may be the reasoning behind some people.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Maybe it was because villains weren't such a big thing in Ep 2. Ep 1 had Maul as big cool bad guy and in Ep 2 we didn't really have that type of evil guy (no offense to Dooku, but you wouldn't get little kids pretending to be him).

[Zasz Grimm]

Evil. Is. Better.

When Zasz's master trials are complete, he'll be open to train people. I've always said this.

[Warlock]

There is no 'Zazm Grimms Training Pen' forum, tho. Newbies won't automatically know that you're open to having apprentices.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Zasz Grimm
Evil. Is. Better.

Care to tell us all why? I'm not trying to start anything; I'm just curious to know.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Dasquian Belargic
Maybe it was because villains weren't such a big thing in Ep 2. Ep 1 had Maul as big cool bad guy and in Ep 2 we didn't really have that type of evil guy (no offense to Dooku, but you wouldn't get little kids pretending to be him).


I think there is a lot of truth to this statement. In the years between Episodes I and II, think about how many major dark-side groups were on this board system. Now, think about how much of a paradigm shift there has been in the past year. A huge part of TPM was showing off Maul's abilities, and showing what a properly trained Sith Lord in his prime could do. AOTC's focus shifted, and it spent a lot of screentime showcasing what the Jedi could do... look no farther than what we saw out of Mace Windu and Yoda. I'm sure seeing a couple hundred Jedi Knights fighting on camera all at once helped things as well.

The trend may shift again when Episode III comes out. We'll see Anakin taping into the Dark Side and becoming Sidious/Palpatine's apprentice, and we know that there's going to be a lot of Jedi dying at the hands of those two. In two years, we'll probably have a whole bunch of new dark side characters, and GJO's numbers will likely fall somewhat.

[Dae Jinn]

People don't play Darksiders, or rather, the reason my main character is no longer one is

1 -- sometimes it's just the direction the character ends up going; Dae started out as a Sith, but she never really had that edge IMO :\

Annnnnnnd..

2-- No training IC = no fun OOC.
Most of the older rpers who play Darkside characters no longer train people, unless it's under special circumstances. The ones that do have lives :lol It's just a matter of getting more people who want to play darksiders trained IC and training other people.

*has never been higher in rank than a Sith Knight* :uhoh

[Lilaena De'Ville]

*ahem* There is a new darksider group being formed that will take and train anyone who wants to be a darksider. PM me for details.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Good :D pimp the group out good so we can have more evil d00ds

[William Belargic]

2-- No training IC = no fun OOC.
Most of the older rpers who play Darkside characters no longer train people, unless it's under special circumstances. The ones that do have lives :lol It's just a matter of getting more people who want to play darksiders trained IC and training other people.

Yeah... maybe we should find some Darksiders who have NO lives. Then we'd get ppl trained. :lol

[Lion El' Jonson]

I also think that a lot of people aren't going into alternate characters anymore. I know a lot of the GJO's Knights/Masters have alternate Dark Side accounts, but most of the new padawans I know use solely their Order account.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Could it also be that, perhaps, knighthood in the GJO means more than in a dark side faction? I don't know this, so I'm just throwing it out there for what it's worth. Also, it seems that the darksider groups have much less of a dropout rate, whereas we had to impliment the classes to hopefully avoid waisting a knight or master's time with someone who isn't going to stick around.

So I don't think we have higher numbers in the long run, just more hopefulls who eventually leave. ;)

[Telan Desaria]

Hey - being a villain has its advatnages. I have a cadre of bodyguards and am working on uniting the galaxy - - under my rule, of course, Evil is fun.

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

never liked training myself, always got bored soooo Videl doesn't do it anymore.....

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by Zeke
Care to tell us all why? I'm not trying to start anything; I'm just curious to know.
You are too restricted as a light sider when compared to a dark sider. I compare characters I've written, and there's more fun to be had when being bad, IMO. There's still fun to be had for a Jedi, but it isn't on the same level. Why else do you think badguys are always the best movie characters? :)


I always flirt with the idea of writing a darksider, problem is the idea never flirts back(What's new? :rolleyes). I want to do something different for me, and not some generic Darksider. And no matter how I try, they always end up being a near-comedy character, so it has to be REALLY different. Just something that will probably never happen :)

[Droo]

Gav doesn't believe in training anymore, he sees the Dark Side as a curse that he wouldn't wish on his greatest enemy so I am bound to the principles of my character. However I am casting them aside to help the new Darkside group develop when it comes about.

Truth is, as has been said, training threads become monotonous and dull. My main problem with Dark Siders is that most, unless they're roleplayed by talented/experienced roleplayers, seem to be the same old cliché Great Grand Lord of all Darkness types who have no real motivation for being evil and as such fall into all types of clichés. These traits are abundant in new roleplayers with Dark Side characters and I simply can't bring myself to tolerate something that irks me so much.

[Kelt Simoson]

Sieken = shelfed till new darksiderey' groups comes out (me in according to ze Hollie-Lolly) :D

[Sorsha Kasajian]

:: kicks Sieken and points to the cellar ::

anyway, it's my ambition too to start a group of darksiders. Can't let De'Ville steal the spotlight. =^;^=

[xsmokingmanx]

The way I see it is that the issue of lack of people willing to teach is the reason why there is a lack of new dark siders. That’s it plain and simple.

Now my Dark sider character Blade Ice is willing to teach, only two problem I find is the fact that most people want to be tied to a group and most people want to stick to fans and forget that Meras is apart of this community too.

Both this issues present a problem with my Character Blade he is will to train but his home is Meras and that’s where the training would take place. Then there’s the fact that he isn't apart of any group he is affiliated with the Hand through his master Dalethria but he isn't a member.

So if you are interested in playing a dark sider and looking for a master and are willing to train at Meras. PM Blade Ice I'm willing to do it.

[Ange Tot]

I'd love to play a darksider, but I'd prefer to get training, the problem is that posting at TSO and not getting a reply can be a real knock-down.


and also that TBH doesn't seem to be accepting recruits.

[Dae Jinn]

Originally posted by William Belargic
Yeah... maybe we should find some Darksiders who have NO lives. Then we'd get ppl trained. :lol

Exactly ;)


J/K, though, I'd have to agree with Fett. Writing for someone who's not some perfect little Jedi angel is lots of fun, but writing it so you aren't creating something (to use my favorite word!) cliched is difficult. It's all been done before it seems, sometimes done to death *cough*long lost twins*cough**cough*childhood trauma*cough* :lol

We need some nice well-adjusted Darksiders, who come home from killing and maiming people to dinner with the wife and kids :lol

[Milivikal k'Vik]

I have on apprentice who isn't here OOC.

I'm very bad at training people in general.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
*ahem* There is a new darksider group being formed that will take and train anyone who wants to be a darksider. PM me for details.

reposted for emphasis

[Silus Xilarian]

I havent tried training anyone yet, but im taking one apprentice once the new group is started (who has already been chosen). I would like to train more people, but given my lack of time as of late, it would be a very bad idea.

One thing Ive noticed too, Jedi characters have a little more in favor for them in a fight. If a Sith beats a Jedi in a duel, it makes sense he would kill them, but rules dont allow this. ITs perfectly acceptable for a Jedi to let an opponent live.

Im not suggesting a rule change at all, cause no killing/maiming is great, just an observation.

[imported_Marcus]

You are too restricted as a light sider when compared to a dark sider.

WHAT.

COMPLETE.

AND.

UTTER.

ROT.




And as for why no Dark siders... it goes in swings and roundabouts. It's happened before, it will happen again. But it was a good observation theres not really an active Dark Sider group. I think tho that RP'ers in general are focusing on other things rather than Good vs Evil.

One of the things that I really dont know if newbie's "Get" is that "training" or even a group is required to get out there and do things. There are logical ways to become a DarkSider and a damn good learned ones - I could write a lot but frankly, I'm crosseyed from exhaustion.

It really comes down to the will of the Rp'er to get going and push on.

[Droo]

I have to agree with Marcus on this one from personal experience at least, I find myself far less restricted when playing Loki than I do with any Dark Side characters.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Originally posted by William Belargic
Yeah... maybe we should find some Darksiders who have NO lives. Then we'd get ppl trained. :lol

Hello?

[Pierce Tondry]

Originally posted by Ange Tot
and also that TBH doesn't seem to be accepting recruits.

The group is undergoing a bit of "restructuring" at the moment. I think there are three planned groups that will be emerging from it's ashes total; one led by De'Ville, one led by Sorsha, and one led by Hobgoblin (myself).

If you are bored or new and have an interest in playing a Dark Sider, contacting one of those people is a good way to follow through on that. :)

[Kelt Simoson]

3 New Darksider groups?..that should be pretty cool.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Originally posted by Ange Tot
I'd love to play a darksider, but I'd prefer to get training, the problem is that posting at TSO and not getting a reply can be a real knock-down.

For the past however long I have been answering recruitment threads in TSO, and altho there hasn't lways been someone around to train, people HAVE been getting in. I have a Knight char there open to training now so if anyone was wanting to join...

[Ange Tot]

Actually I'm planning on attaching this char. to no group in particular, so I'm taking Blade's offer, at the moment.

But it's nice to see all these new groupies showing up.

[ReaperFett]

And as for why no Dark siders... it goes in swings and roundabouts. It's happened before, it will happen again.
I remember the exact same thread a few years back, but the other way round :)


Originally posted by Dru
I have to agree with Marcus on this one from personal experience at least, I find myself far less restricted when playing Loki than I do with any Dark Side characters.
But might that be your writing? How can writing someone who fights for good be easier than someone who fights for ANYTHING? :)

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

The truth be told, as an Active Master at TSO.

1.) I got tired of training, which is why I started the Training Missions. Training is boring, and I always managed to scare them away.
I.E. tossing an apprentice off the side of the building when they asked to learn levitation.

2.) Weeks between the posts of an apprentice...

3.) Real Life gets in the way

4.) Just blah...

Yes, right now, TSO is in a down point. I blame the existing economy. With prices going up, people need more money, so they work more. More work = less online time. I just can't help it that the Sith in RL are succesful. :D

[Kelt Simoson]

I say blow crap up. Always makes interesting Sith threads :)

But yes. I tend to agree Fett, that being a Jedi is alot more fun and interesting (for me atleast). Why? I dont know i think i can relate to Kelt more than Sieken on many levels and enjoy playing him alot more than playing my Darksider, who really does nothing more than kill people 24/7..lol

[Dasquian Belargic]

Just as not all Jedi are emotionless paccisfists, not all Sith are mindless killing machines. I think you can have fun playing both. :)

[Kelt Simoson]

Depends on what mood im in. If im in a good mood like now, i like playing kelt. If im in a bad mood i like playing darksiders and killing :). If im in a halloweeny mood i play Darmok..really depends.

[Nayala Palain]

God knows I hate training threads. Cause most of them can take way to damn long. And I dont have the time to keep up on all of them...

Plus why there are not many darksiders is cause well most Darksiders dont want any more if you look at the Sith in the actual SW There where lots then they killed themselves for the power. Then after Bane there was only 2.

[Morgan Evanar]

I don't really find one character to write for easier than any other, although Darius was the hardest because I was trying to match a character's established profile and straighten it in my head so it becomes automatic.

I'm getting closer, I think.

Its just as easy for me to post as Milivikal as it is Morgan or any of my other characters. They just have different limitations and personalities.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

Playing a char in the middle between Sith and Jedi (non-force user) is a bit tougher, I think.

I tried the Jedi thing at TC as Daiq and Zasz stopped talking to me OOC and IC cos he was mad, lol. Hera, bless her dark and twisted heart, teased and tormented me until I turned Daiq back to the dark. Trust me, being a lightsider isnt fun...I found it boring :(

[Dasquian Belargic]

Says Daiq, the warm-hearted cookie-baking Sith who likes to adopt children and feed the poor :D

[Kitty McQuade]

:: hugs Daiq ::

Fear not, we still love you. =^_^=

[Morgan Evanar]

Playing a char in the middle between Sith and Jedi (non-force user) is a bit tougher, I think. I find my neutral characters (probably neutral-chaos and neutral-neutral, a cookie for those who can guess which is which) just as easy to play.
-shrug-

[Dasquian Belargic]

I always found non-forcies tougher because I couldn't come up with anything to do with them :x where as forcies you have training and stuff you can do

[Kelt Simoson]

I still vote for blowing crap up!

Sith or rogue, blowing stuff up is always fun :D

[Brielle Acaana]

Yeah, but you love my cookies :mneh

*hugs for Kitty :love

[Jacob Nives]

"Cookies"? That what we're calling them now eh? :mischief

(look at me, spamming my own no spam topic :lol)

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

*looks at Jacob*

I swear Ive never seen that Jedi before! I dont know whose cookies hes been eating but they werent mine!

:mischief

[Dasquian Belargic]

ahem anyway. back on topic ^_^;

[Master Yoghurt]

Well, like Fett said earlier in the thread. A couple of years ago, there would be threads with the excact same thread title as this one, except you replace "Darksiders" with "Jedi". Things have changed. People used to say playing Jedi was less fun. There also was a time when there was an abundance of active Sith compared to Jedi in the roleplaying forums. When the groups moved away from ezboard, the GJO had for quite some time experienced a strong growth, aiming to become the largest group. Then TSE decided to move to their own place, and the balance tumbled all over.

When you try to figure out why there are less Sith than Jedi, you have to take the above into account.

Furthermore, what happens is, when a potential roleplayer registers at this board, he sees this huge group GJO with lots of active members in the roleplaying forums. Basic human behavior predicts he/she will chose the most visible group, and/or the group with the best structure for training. It was a frustrating syndrom for the Jedi when we were swamped by TSE, TSO, TSC, RJO, TGE and what not.

So what CAN be done about it? 2 things:

1. TSO and fractions of TBH have to provide new members with good training. I know this can be tedious, but its absolutely necessary

2. Existing experienced roleplayers, have to be more open to the idea of playing evil characters (yes, this includes me)

My 5 republic cents :)

[Seteth Morters]

maybe its because training a darksider isnt as easy as training a lightsider. It looks right for jedi to be doing hundreds of exercises, but can anyone here see a darksider playing Force hide-and-seek? [ok, actually that's cute]

maybe its because a low-ranking darksider is basically just an angry, angsty teen?

[Kelt Simoson]

I think splitting TBH open to 3 new factions will be quite a good idea. It will provide 3 diffrent types of Darksider group for the new/old person to choose from, all operating under diffrent attitudes and goals and also will open more dimensions for an old darksider to go for. offering diffrent types of RPies, connections and so on..gonna be pretty cool.

[imported_Firebird1]

You need more Darksiders?

I guess then I'll have to start posting in the RP forum more. Seeing how I am a Sith Master and all.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Seteth Morters
maybe its because training a darksider isnt as easy as training a lightsider. It looks right for jedi to be doing hundreds of exercises, but can anyone here see a darksider playing Force hide-and-seek? [ok, actually that's cute]

Zeke does Force hide-and-seek. The object is to find him in a room with several other people, and you hafta get him out of all the other decoy signatures. I figure a darkside version would be to throw some helpless victims into a dark room, send the apprentice in, and have them use the Force to hunt and kill all the people within a set time limit. I'm working on other darkside Force games, too, but this is the only one I've figured out so far.

[Vishalla Daoked]

If ppl have no problems training a child as a Darksider, this character has Force potential and doesn't know it. She's innocent and doesn't know much of the battle with good vs evil. I'm actually just waiting to see if the Jedi will approach her or if a Darksider will approach her about it.

[Azhure Darkstone]

hmm...a sitting duck. an innocent mind to be corrupted. You have no idea how attractive that is to an evil being, are you sure you want to advertise your character??

Ever since TSE left this place there has been far less sith around and TSO doesnt seem to have grown bigger though I don't know for sure since I'm not in TSO, so don't quote me.

A lot of the time people think they are bad trainers, and hey maybe they are, but it's better than having no training, and thus no new sith. Also with practise bad teachers become good teachers and when training is over I'm seriously going to need some sith to battle so bring it on!!!

[Silus Xilarian]

did I hear a challenge? ;)

[Saphire Saryin]

:p perhaps.

[Silus Xilarian]

Might just have to dust off my sabers then. :p

[Vishalla Daoked]

Yeah, I'm sure I want to advertise that my character here is an innocent child who doesn't know she has Force potential. And I forgot to mention that she's also lost her memories as well. But the catch is they have to be willing to train a child who will be asking alot of questions about everything.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

"I'll get you, my pretty!!! And you're little cat too!!!" :D

[Dasquian Belargic]

Now you really can call yourself the Wicked Witch :D

[Je'gan Olra'en]

Well, actually, TSO has recently inducted...mmm...I believe it's about five or six new apprentices...decent growth if nothing spectacular.

[Azhure Darkstone]

Originally posted by Silus Xilarian
Might just have to dust off my sabers then. :p

bring it on mate.

[Vishalla Daoked]

Just leave the cat out of this. He's vicious and will claw your ankles to shreds. :)

[Pierce Tondry]

Hob once began the long arduous process of corrupting a child, but unfortunately the player behind the character was forced offline. :\

[Lady Vader]

:lol It funny how right now we're sparse of Darksiders/Darkside Groups... but once the other groups start forming themselves up, we're gonna have Darkside Groups popping out of our ears!! (Watch out GJO! >D)

As for myself, I do take apprentices in, but after a few threads, they up and disappear without so much as a word. So, I scratch em off my list and move on. But I do agree with some folks here... training threads are TEDIOUS and half the time, they don't go much of anywhere.

Now, that's not to say I won't take expereinced RPers Darksiders in for training, cause I know I don't have to babysit them 24/7, which is a HUGE relief for me (and I'm pretty darn sure it's the same for other Master Sith).

And that said, we get a few recruits at TSO... the prob is they join, but then disapear. *Scratches head* Ever notice how new recruits (I mean like NEW new recruits, not expereinced RPer new characters) up and disapear almost as soon as they've joined a group? Maybe it's just me, but I notice this from time to time...

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

noticed that a lot, I'd take someone in then, bloop, they're gone....tis aggrivating......the real new ones tended to bug me with questions or just vanish so stopped taking ppl as apprentices..... :(

[Saphire Saryin]

What about when an apprentice surprises you if they are allowed to flourish? I can understand where your coming from and it's a fair reason, but I guess it's how busy your time limit for rping is.
How can you tell a person who would be dedicated from one that wouldnt when they apply for training?

[Jela Rowan]

Originally posted by Saphire Saryin

How can you tell a person who would be dedicated from one that wouldnt when they apply for training?


You don't, and thus one must take a chance and hope that this one will stick around.

[imported_Firebird1]

I'd gladly train anyone in the dark ways of the Sith. I'd have no problem with it. They'd just have to be one at a time, and here at SWfans.