Sony Theaters?

[BUFFJEDI]

Does anyone know How many movie theaters sony owns?? After all of these years of Screaming that BOX_OFFICE numbers are fixed I have decided to Start and prove it

[CMJ]

Actually, I don't believe SONY owns any theatres.

[BUFFJEDI]

Sony/Lowes Theaters
Sony - IMAX Theater
Magic Johnson Theaters
Loews - Star Theaters

here are a couple that they own, which doesn't tell me how many.

[CMJ]

*sigh*

Of course you know that the studio's track their BO sales as well as the sales of other studio's. If there was a studio ripping the others off believe me there would be hell to pay. This conspiracy crap is nonsense.

[BUFFJEDI]

well...... ok I will not go into all that yet CMJ, Believe me I know how much it Irks the pee out of you >_< But there is more to what I'm looking into . Like lets just say sony UP there movies take etc.
But I would like to know how many theaters sony does own though , for starters.If anyone knows or has a place to look it up.

[CMJ]

Okay, if we don't take into account that studio's all track BO figures....

Why would a studio up a movie's take exponentially anyways? I can see them maybe cooking the books by a million or two(take "Charlie's Angels 2" for example) to get to a certain theshold. That is possible, perhaps even understandable.

BUT in the case of a film like "Spider-Man", a film that you insist was overreported by tens of millions of dollars it literally makes NO sense. They'd have to pay taxes on revenue never recieved - plus whatever benefits due to actors, etc that had back end deals on percentage points of the gross.

[BUFFJEDI]

I'm totally leaving this as a Sony theater count thread, nothing else.

[sirdizzy]

no no no no i want to see you two kick the crap out of each other i am rooting for the old man buff btw


go buff go buff don't let me down i got $20 riding on you

[BUFFJEDI]

:lol :lol :lol

Sorry Dizzy, I'm afraid Cmj would kick my butt on this one,for now;)
(buff hobbles away on his cane)

[Master Yoghurt]

I am afraid I have to side with CMJ on this one. But if youre going to make a conspiracy theory about the Academy Awards, I am with you all the way. :D

[BUFFJEDI]

Master Yogurt, I'm 100% sure Everyone Knows that the Oscars are a load of Horse poop. Lets put it this way. Anyone who thinks that the oscars are on the level... well lets just say their I.Q are MUCH lower than even mine:D

1. Annie hall beats Starwars for best picture???????
2. 1999 Matrix beats TPM,best effects???????
3.2003 LOTR TTT beats AOTC, best effects???note: Lotr TTT Where good, but not that good
5.woody allen best director anni hall?????
4. Spider-man is even Nominated for Effects???????
6. 2003 Halle berry Best actress??? Hey I LOVE!!!!! mrs. Berry BUT come on. I think we know the deal.(not that it's a bad thing)just obvious
Oh ,thats just a few examples of the CRAP!! the academy has pulled. BUT what can you do........

[CMJ]

Buff, Yog - believe me the Oscars are on the up and up. It's a big group of over 5000 industry types that vote. Think of all the different opinions that are on THIS board. If we had some kind of awards here with our say 40 most influential posters, I can assure you there'd be some wierd choices.

Some folks would be happy and others would be like "WTF, how did THAT get nominated!" Seriously,. I can't remember the last time that even the members of my family all agreed on what was the best film of the year, how can you expect the Academy or any group to come up with a consensus that pleases everyone.

[Master Yoghurt]

Its the fact they are industry types that bugs me. I dont think they are nearly as impartial as they should be.

A movie should be judged upon its own merits, its ability to convey a story, the performance of the actors. A good movie excites and interests the viewer. For an unbiased critic, those are the ONLY factors involved.

Movies should NOT be judged upon who directed/produced it, which movie studio it is being marketed by or the repution of the actors. Irrelevant as they may seem, I do think think they are being part of the picture when you have a group of 5000 industry types, especially when the group is dominated by people from Hollywood.

So how unbiased are they? My theory is; not much, otherwise the movie studios would not spend millions of dollars on Academy Awards marketing and lobbying each year.

Here is something to concider. This is straight from the 74th Academy Awards rules:


<center>An Important Note
from the Board of Governors of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences</center>



This year, as in the past, you may be importuned by advertisements, promotional gifts, dinner invitations and other lobbying tactics in an attempt to solicit your vote.

Though the crude solicitations that occasionally surfaced in earlier years seem to be a thing of the past, we would ask each individual Academy member to be on guard against inappropriate attempts to influence your vote, and to register your displeasure with anyone who might make such an attempt.

The more emphatically that all of us can convey to the industry and the wider public that excellence in filmmaking is the ONLY factor we consider in casting our Academy Award votes, the more reason the world will have to respect our judgment.

In the official rules, which everyone can read, they admit corruption is/was a problem.

Now, for something more disturbing. In the 75'th edition rules, they say excactly the same, except the top paragraph has been replaced with:

"This year, as in the past, you may be importuned by advertisements and other lobbying tactics in an attempt to solicit your vote.

Sounds more vague and political correct, doesn't it? Reading between the lines, they say, ".. pretty please, dont let anyone buy your votes!". If thats not a good reason to be paranoid, what is? o_O

[BUFFJEDI]

Sure we all have our different opinions, But that doesn't mean it can't be fixed. How do we know that they actually use the votes?We as the general public have NO idea what the true tallyis infact Neither do the actors, directors etc...

Look at the neilson's rating's People take it as the Gospel, but yet it is based on avg Not actual.(I'm not saying That it's rigged )Just showing what people take as truth JUST because it's printed as truth.

Look the general public BELIEVE"S what is spoon fed to them. They think show's like AMerican Idol are REAL. DID anyone read People mag On how the votes were NOT fixed?? Even I could have given a better Reason How there's No way the votes could be fixed.


Lets put it this way.One day there will be a big stink about how all of the above is rigged. I dare say in the next 2-3 years. Why now? well the public is really just now getting into even caring about box-office figures. Look the general public may be Ignorant but they ain't stupid, there just slow and just don't know YET!!!!!

[CMJ]

Yoghurt, yeah people campaign for votes for their movies and what not, but that doesn't mean anything is fixed. The Awards are and always will be a popularity contest.

The reason alot of this shady campaign tactics got attention was Miramax above all else. A little over 10 years ago they *really* did have to push their movies, because no one saw them. They were usually always limited releases, that were overlooked.

So the company started sending viewing tapes to people. When that became successful other compaines started doing that. Then Miramax got adept at having ad campaigns in the trade magazines(which had always been done to an extent, but not with their perfection). Soon other studio's had to do the same to keep up in the "arms race". The last 3-4 years it's just gotten more and more intense.

Believe me, I know. I live here. This town BREATHES Oscars for about a month.

Buff, the idea the the Oscar's are fixed by the upper echelon of the Academy is one of the most insane things I've ever heard. The Academy doesn't even COUNT the votes. They are never in their HANDS. The votes are sent to an independent accounting firm. Could THEY fix it? I suppose THAT'S possible, but then you'd have a beef with a few bean counters at whatever company counts the votes..not the Academy. Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense.

[BUFFJEDI]

Buff, the idea the the Oscar's are fixed by the upper echelon of the Academy is one of the most insane things I've ever heard. The Academy doesn't even COUNT the votes. They are never in their HANDS. The votes are sent to an independent accounting firm. Could THEY fix it? I suppose THAT'S possible, but then you'd have a beef with a few bean counters at whatever company counts the votes..not the Academy. Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense.




How is it Insane?

So the academy doesn't count the votes, does that mean they can't Ignore the tally of votes?Are they Untouchable to there own opinions? Are they untouchable to Bribes? or Threats and just HATE someone with a nom??

Who handles it between the Bean counters to the Upper echelon?Could the numbers not be tampered with from here to there?

So you (are )saying that the Bean counters COULD be bought and sold to fix the numbers?Although Doubtful in your opinion.

My reasoning makes no sense, reallY? so there is NO way, 100% chance that what I have said is possible?

I put it this way , I'm so sure that there is some sort of fixing (maybe NOT the way I think) but rigging ,that I would BET!! my life without hesitation. Can anyone who Disagree's say the same thing?(granted that's a STUPID thing to bet your life on BUT, My money where my mouth is ;) )

[BUFFJEDI]

Kind of off subject

So If the oscars are just a popularity contest,

Otherwards They are not worth crap, and has NOTHING to do with what's the best, who's the best?


Well I'm sure there are Millions of people who would say that, that's insane. It would mean that the awards are Bogus, worthless rigged or not?;)

[CMJ]

Buff...the folks at the accounting firm(I think it's Price Waterhouse) actually make the winners envelopes and take them to the Kodak theatre themselves. Then they sit around during the ceremony and give them out one at a time to the presenters. I never said, and refuse to believe the accountants that count the votes would be bought and paid for. I implied that it could be possible they might rig the numbers so what THEY wanted to see win did.

But I find that highly suspect.

In other words the results are never even passed to Gil Cates or any of the Board of Governors of the Academy. Before award night there's like 4 people in the entire world who knows what won what.

[BUFFJEDI]

I do apologize for putting words in your mouth, Although NOT ment that way, Just stating What would make them rig.

Highly suspect is not being 100% sure.

[CMJ]

Buff, what award based on human voting isn't a popularity contest at some level. If most voters in the Academy like "Chicago" the best it wins Best Picture.

Would it have been my choice? No. In a highly subjective field like determing what movie is "best" a popularity contest is ALL IT COULD BE. I highly doubt you and I would agree on more than 3 categories. Multiply that by 5 thousand, and that's what the Academy is.

[BUFFJEDI]

I do apologize for putting words in your mouth, Although NOT ment that way, Just stating What would make them rig.

Highly suspect is not being 100% sure.


And we (the general public) know for a FACT,100%sure that the results are never even passed to Gil Cates or any of the Board of Governors of the Academy. Before award night there's like 4 people in the entire world who knows what won what.

[CMJ]

Highly suspect is not 100% sure?! Dude, I'm not 100% sure I'm gonna be alive tommorrow! What in the world is 100% certain?!

Dear lord. o_O

As I said..what could make them rig? Well I guess if the 4 people counting the awards all said "Hey I want Gangs of New York to win Best Picture" they could just make it so.

Even so...all the votes are kept on file for like 10 years or so after the fact before they're thrown out. From what I understand if there was a serious question regarding the voting they could be checked.

[BUFFJEDI]

Originally posted by CMJ
Buff, what award based on human voting isn't a popularity contest at some level. If most voters in the Academy like "Chicago" the best it wins Best Picture.

Would it have been my choice? No. In a highly subjective field like determing what movie is "best" a popularity contest is ALL IT COULD BE. I highly doubt you and I would agree on more than 3 categories. Multiply that by 5 thousand, and that's what the Academy is.

Oh, I agree 100 % BUT I bet you the academy would NOT call it that. Bet you they would start rambling how it is strictly based on one's performance...blah blah blah

[CMJ]

Well so would I....:p If and when I am able to vote, I'll do so based on what *I* think is the best, just as all the members do.

But everyone has different opinions. To think that everyone in the Academy votes one way is idiotic. I bet movies rarely get more than say 30% of the vote when they win BP(or any other category for that matter). But you only need 21% to win.

[BUFFJEDI]

well, I'm a 100% percent there is a GOD, 100 % sure I'm on Great cranberry Island, 100% sure i'm alive right now. 100% sure that the box-office and oscars are rigged. 100% sure I can bench press over 400 lbs, 100 percent sure I'll never win a pultzer, 100% sure I'll NEVER write a bestseller 100% sure I'm getting on your nerves :lol

No that's my point there are VERY few 100%. You can't say there Is NO WAY if YOUR not 100% sure, or imply there's no way.


If they ? the counting,I'm sure they would already have it fixed to reflect the numbers.

If I ? the count,'d personally go to each member and ask.

[BUFFJEDI]

Ok now this is just a personal question, HOW in the world did spider-man even get a nomination for special effects? SURELY there opinions are not THAT bad?

[CMJ]

Good lord Buff, everything is a conspiracy then, because nothing can be proven 100% without a doubt to *everyone*.

How the hell do I know you can bench 400lbs?

I'm 100% sure there isn't a God, so really neither of us are certain because it can't be proven either way.

I think the USA is run by miltant mice that control our minds through osmosis! YOU CAN'T PROVE OTHERWISE SO DON'T EVEN TRY!

:smokin :lol

[CMJ]

Originally posted by BUFFJEDI
Ok now this is just a personal question, HOW in the world did spider-man even get a nomination for special effects? SURELY there opinions are not THAT bad?

Why not? I knew alot of people that would have at least nominated it.

[BUFFJEDI]

Originally posted by CMJ
Good lord Buff, everything is a conspiracy then, because nothing can be proven 100% without a doubt to *everyone*.

How the hell do I know you can bench 400lbs?

I'm 100% sure there isn't a God, so really neither of us are certain because it can't be proven either way.

I think the USA is run by miltant mice that control our minds through osmosis! YOU CAN'T PROVE OTHERWISE SO DON'T EVEN TRY!

:smokin :lol

But you said Everyone, I'm 100% sure there is a GOD,to me.Now as proving there is a GOD all you need to do is look around you and see all the wounders of the earth, stars. Look at how children come about , Look at the tide's of the ocean,look at the totation of planets , all that's an Accident?ok. I can tell you right now that When I'm walking with the Lord the way I should My life is absolutely perfect. It goes to total crap when I stray.It's like this It doesn't matter if you believe in him or not, He believes in you and Loves you. He wants you to be one of his children and have eternal life. With out him You can have ALL that the world would call you succesful for, but with out him it's Nothing.I'll put it this way. I have met a couple of family members of the 1-5 Richest family's on the earth (yes I think you know who 1 is) a let me tell you they are not what and happy as you would think they are.WHY they have all you need BUT GOD. Why do those who seem to have ALL that someone could want kill themselves,drink,and do drugs?? You would think only the poor would do that to forget there worries. I know Poor people who have what society would call nothing BUT they are happier than the Richiest will ever, be without GOD. I pray you were kidding about not believing in GOD. If you were not PLEASE<PLEASE a thousand times Stop what you are doing pick up the Bible and talk to God. Like you said You don't know if you will be alive tomorrow. I hate to sound like a Bible thumbing JESUS freak But I don't care, your salvation means more to me than my Pride and what others or you think of me. What happens to you when you die may not affect my life BUT I wish that NOONE goes to the bad place at there end.Although I have never met you and may never but you have alway's been a good (internet friend so to speak) and I wish Only the good to come your way

2. OVER 400 pounds(hey you are invited to watch ANYTIME you want )


3.Usa ran by miltant MICE!!! Crap I was wrong, I thought it was RATS!!!!!;)

But yes your right I can't prove your wrong on the mice,but you also can't prove that the oscars and the box-office is not rigged.

See your now taking away from what we have talked about before. I get my Opinions on my gut feelings NOT what everyone else thinks or say's. Everyone Does NOT have to agree with me to make me right. And just because they disagree with me doesn't make me wrong.

Now I think CMJ you should know that I VERY rarely say I'm right about anything, cause I know less than the norm(no doubt:p )But my Gut feeling has NEVER been wrong. I was right about Nascar,PGA golf, NBA basketball, uncle Larry and a friend of mine's child. Minor things to say the least BUT I was told I was crazy out of my mind NO way to prove it, and I was correct each time.

[CMJ]

*sigh*

Where to start, where to start? I feel a rant coming on.

Forget it.......

Buff, go on and delude yourself. It won't matter what I post - you're like talking to a brick wall.

I don't mean to sound arrogant, or mean spirited, so I'll stop now.

:rolleyes

[imported_Marcus]

If ROTK dont win Director / Best film this year, I'll agree with Buff. If they do win, I'll agree with CMJ.

Put your bets on gentlemen, who will I side with?

:D

(Okay, that was a bad attempt at humour)

[sirdizzy]

i am with buff on this one the oscars are rigged otherwise there is no ryhme or reason to the award

rarely does the movie of superior artistic value win and then popularity swings it the other way making it totally nosensical


look at 1997 titanic wins not because its the best picture but because it is the most popular, when all the movie is sensationalism and has no merit other than being a demeaning mockery of the film industry and the sheer sign that movie goers will be fed any level of crao as long as it is sugar coated enough

so then if popularity is the rule should jurrasic park not beat schindlers list which had the artistic merit or should lord ofthe rings not crushed a beautiful mind and chicago

and should star wars to this day probably the biggest movie ever made cultural wise not beat out annie hall


but then we see the switches in the opposite direction artistically shawshank redemption was superior to forrest gump


no ryhme nor reason, why our only pictures that our released in december even being considered for the award was not the road to perdition better than say the hours (which to me was like viewing menapause first hand)

is not the award best picture of that particular year than why is every nomination a december released movie (all 5 nominations were released in december last year and only 2 in wide release LOTR and gangs of new york)

so we got 5 movies in one month better than 150 in 11 months how does that swing so badly


rigged, scammed, bull <smallfont color={hovercolor}>-Censored-</smallfont> and mostly a waste of time

[Figrin D'an]

I find it hilarious that so many people spend so much time complaining about the Oscars in general. Sure, I've gripped about a few things regarding them in my time. I've certainly disagreed with a lot of the choices over the 12 or so years that I've actually paid attention to them in detail. But, to whine and complain about them this much is just ridiculous.

In my opinion, and probably in the opinion of a lot of people around this board, Star Wars should have won Best Picture for 1977. But, it didn't. Does this somehow demish the film? Does this make me like it less, because the producer of another film got a little golden-colored statue instead of George Lucas? Of course not, on both accounts.


It just doesn't pay to get so worked up and ticked off about something so subjective. Let it go, and you'll be a lot happier.


I'd like to bring one last thing to everyone's attention. The last time we had someone around the boards who was completely, 100% convinced that the box office was rigged, things got rather ugly, and he essentially degenerated into a troll, and proceeded to annoy and anger a lot of people. Buff... I respect your right to your own self-determined opinion, but I'd be careful on how zealously you approach this. If you stand on the soapbox for too long, someone is likely to pull it out from under you and hit you over the head with it.

[sirdizzy]

why isn't buff allowed to have an opinion on the subject and you are, like him I am %100 convinced the oscars are rigged am i allowed to not have an opinion on this either


i will expound on a few of my other thoughts

in 1993 the artistic movie wins, in 1994 the popular movie wins, in 1997 the popular movie wins, in 2001 the artistic movie wins

look at that, thats a 10 year span where the same voters constietnly changed how they voted, why is that in such a small span its goign to be all the same voters they should vote fairlt consistient not so wishy washy



secondly lets expound on the december issue, nearly %90 of the movies nominated for oscars are released in december less that %9 of the year

why is that: money. movies that are still in the theatres come march increase their profits by being nominated for an oscar, and the same people who are nominating and votong for oscars are reaping the benifiets of the movies doing extra money

the people who vote are studio executives and people inside the movie industry


does that not seem fishy to you in the least

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by sirdizzy
why isn't buff allowed to have an opinion on the subject and you are, like him I am %100 convinced the oscars are rigged am i allowed to not have an opinion on this either





Originally posted by Figrin D'an
Buff... I respect your right to your own self-determined opinion, but I'd be careful on how zealously you approach this. If you stand on the soapbox for too long, someone is likely to pull it out from under you and hit you over the head with it.



I never said he wasn't allowed to have an opinion. I clearly said that he has a right to his opinion. I mearly stated that, in a similar set of circumstances a few years ago, some rather ugly threads occured, and it lead to a lot of undue strife, and I gave a few short words of advice.


RCP, please.

[BUFFJEDI]

Thank you Sir dizzy :)

And Friggin, I've been here long enough to know how things have went, I for one know how far to take it. I don't get mad just because someone does not share my opinion nor throw insults, so your warning for caution is thanked, But totally uncalled for

IF you can find where I have been TICKED off ,Please let me know.CMJ and I have had this conversation before. IT fades and then one day I'll bring it back up agian.;)

[CMJ]

Dizzy you said something along the lines of - How could the Academy reward the "popular" choice one year and the "artistic" choice the next?

Simple, the Academy is made up of thousands of people. You win with a plurality. The group does not have a "group think" mentality at all - hell it's like politics.

There are folks who probably always vote for the artsy movies(call'em Democrats). There are folks who like the more typical Hollywood fare(call'em Republicans) and a large group in the middle that has to be swayed one way or the other(call'em independent voters). Now considering there are FIVE choices for most categories, the vote gets further broken down.

It's no wonder many times results are all over the map.