Debate Topic: Avalon/OOC Access

[Figrin D'an]

Bridged from this (http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31535) topic.


As I said in that discussion thread, it seems that establishing a definitive policy on this would be prudent. It will be much easier for the staff as a whole to deal with access matters when they can be sure they have a ruleset by which to grant or revoke access.

It would seem the major issue is whether or not users whom have Jedi accounts with Avalon access should be granted access with other non-Jedi accounts. Currently, we do have several such persons whom have access with accounts not amongst the GJO membership. We need to decide if this is continue, or if all such access should be removed and only Jedi accounts are allowed access.

In terms of the other matter, revoking access when a person leaves GJO, that seems to be a non-issue. The policy has been that, if said person possess another character with Avalon access, access will remain with other accounts. If the person does not have another character with Avalon access, privileges regarding Avalon and OOC are revoked. However, we can, if it is deemed necessary, discuss this point as well, and potentially revamp this policy.


The floor is open for discussion.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Being such a touchy subject, I'm half inclined to just say that no account that is not a direct member of the GJO should have access to the restricted forums.

Granted, this does annoy people who simply use their other accounts to check stuff, not to spy. However, it has the advantage that we know exactly who has access because all of them are Jedi. Ya dig?

[Morgan Evanar]

I think the vast majority of Jedi who have alt accounts with access to Avalon simply do as a convience, as Rie said.

Personally, I have my Moz and variants with a password manager. Non Jedi accounts can go out the window, far as I'm concerned. If they don't have physical access to Avalon they don't have acccess.

[TheHolo.Net]

I am of the opinion that having multiple names per person with access, that are not Jedi names, is not a good idea in the end. It can make managing all the names that require their access to be modified when joining or leaving GJO's membership, very very difficult.

[imported_Marcus]

As I have said, I only have access for characters that have a direct and clear either reason, history or ability to access IC. While that is what I do, I really do not have problems if other mods see it differently. Both my IC do, I only use my OOC as a convienience.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by SWFans.Net
I am of the opinion that having multiple names per person with access, that are not Jedi names, is not a good idea in the end. It can make managing all the names that require their access to be modified when joining or leaving GJO's membership, very very difficult.


This is a very valid point, and is the major reason why I would suggest removing access for all non-Jedi-related accounts. I might be an inconvienence for some people, but it might save on headaches in the future.

[Morgan Evanar]

Agreed.

[Ryla Relvinian]

It seems logical to me that now is the time to set some sort of hard and fast rule that will either favor IC or OOC.

Should we have a vote, or keep it as a decision between us?

[Figrin D'an]

This should be a staff decision.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Ok, fair enough.

For my part, I'm inclined to say that we limit access to Jedi personel only. This is because I don't have as many characters to switch between, and it isn't an inconvenience for me.

Also, it's not really that difficult to change accounts here.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Jedi only....why rehash things said? :) I think I can live without Dale in avalon :lol

[Morgan Evanar]

Other Account Access, Y/N
I think we're ready to clear this votewise.
N.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Y if there is a clear reason and history.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I'm not sure which way to go on this, but I'll say no except in very special circumstances. Such special circumstances must include proof, as documented in a RP or something, and can be voted upon, IC, by the council.

Sounds fair to me.

[William Belargic]

While it's a bit of an inconenience to me (yes, I can be lazy), I suppose I could live with the "only Jedi accounts" in Avalon (I'm assuming this also refers to the OOC within Avalon?)

Also, another question... what about the GJO Grounds or the GJO Admin forum here? Do we have to get rid of all our alternate accounts in those forums as well?

[Ryla Relvinian]

I suppose those would also qualify as restricted areas, IC. At least the grounds would. The Admin forum is a trickier subject. Should non-members be allowed to delegate administrative decisions over a group they are no longer a part of?

I don't know how to answer that.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Morgan Evanar
Other Account Access, Y/N
I think we're ready to clear this votewise.
N. N

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Ryla Relvinian
I suppose those would also qualify as restricted areas, IC. At least the grounds would. The Admin forum is a trickier subject. Should non-members be allowed to delegate administrative decisions over a group they are no longer a part of?

I don't know how to answer that. And just so Marc doesn't feel too singled out, this question would also apply to me to some extent, though I do have a JEdi character, I sure haven't RP'd that character in ages. ^_^; But whatever decision is rendered, I will comply as required by it as well.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Morgan Evanar
Other Account Access, Y/N
I think we're ready to clear this votewise.



N, for the reasons outlined in previous posts.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Ryla, the answer to the admin question is difficult. IF I was genuinely, completely and utterly out with all characters, I would resign. But that I think would only come about if I got out of roleplay entirely.

SW-Fans was asked to admin here not on the basis he had a character, but because he could be trusted to do the job properly, as you all were. You were not chosen for RP skillz. I very much dont care if SW-Fans has an active character or not, or any of you for that matter, because that is not why admin was given.

When we were at EZBoard, it was common practice for a GJO admin to pick another account to use with admin rights as well as the main ones.

I was intending to request a rights switch from Elessar to Tohmahawk fairly soon and I would rather have Tohmahawk than one of my other Jedi characters as I really do not wish to reveal them. Nor do I really want 'Hawk to be a Jedi, much rather him as he was origianlly concieved and written back in the days of pub1 Exboard. I'll have to think on this.


The Admin forum is a trickier subject. Should non-members be allowed to delegate administrative decisions over a group they are no longer a part of?

History - the in times past, we most certainly did allow non members to admin / moderate, cause as I said, admin duties are not based on roleplay. They are based on if you are an appropriate and trustworthy person. The situation was only changed when we used the switch here to clean up the lists and clean out non Jedi accounts.

[Morgan Evanar]

SW-Fans was asked to admin here not on the basis he had a character, but because he could be trusted to do the job properly, as you all were. You were not chosen for RP skillz. I very much dont care if SW-Fans has an active character or not, or any of you for that matter, because that is not why admin was given. When we first moved here, there was a hole in the times we covered. Ogre has a habbit of staying up at odd hours. At one point we got something like ten notices of stuff during that time hole, so we made him admin.

All of the other non-GJO admins have been extremely short lived, and with the exception of Ogre, they were all pretty much purely your apointees, IIRC.

[imported_Marcus]

Pretty much every staff appointment has been appiointed by me except for the founding admins. Regretted two appointments, but in the main you've done okay :p

I would have refused to go with Ogre's appointment if I did not trust him. There are others who stay up odd hours, but we dont ask them, because they can not be trusted.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I see. :) Thanks for the clarification on that.

[AmazonBabe]

Ok, this is getting a little convoluted for me...

Here's a nice and simple look at it:

1) Temple Avalon: Jedi Only? Y / N (mixed)

2) Official Oratory Chamber: Jedi Only? Y / N (mixed)

3) GJO Administration: Jedi Only? Y / N (mixed)

And here are my votes:

1) Y (Jedi only access into Temple Avalon for IC purposes)

2) Y (the way I see it, it is an OOC for Jedi)

3) N (mixed) (it's an admin forum... it doesn't feel to me to be strictly for Jedi only accounts as those ppl behind the Jedi accounts are the one's admining... not the Jedi... or something to that effect)

Did any of that make sense?

[Figrin D'an]

I don't think access to the admin forum is an issue. It's a much smaller group, and therefore is easier to attribute multiple user names to a given person.

[Morgan Evanar]

I think you mean giving an mod's alt accounts acccess to the admin forum is less of an issue. Correct?

Just trying to get it clear in my head.

[William Belargic]

Yeah, I think that's what he meant...

[Navaria Tarkin]

yep and I agree with the locked Jedi forums for Jedi only and here it doesnt matter

[William Belargic]

I guess it's been implimented as I can't see Avalon with this name. o_O

[Figrin D'an]

It has?

Who took it upon themselves to do so?

[imported_Marcus]

Huh?

I didnt. Bit jumping the gun aint it when we aint signed it off just yet?

[imported_Marcus]

Master Yoghurt
Ethereal Ogre
Gurney Devries
Morgan Evanar
General Tohmahawk
Marcus Elessar
Kyle Starblade
Helenias Evenstar
Sanis Prent
Anbira Hicchoru
ReaperFett
Jubei SaDherat Vader
Tujk
Nash Stolar
Jyanis Scorpion
Cirrsseeto Raurrssatta
AmazonBabe
Lady Vader
Dalethria Mal Pannis
Pierce Tondry
Evil Hobgoblin
Figrin D'an
Kat Kariena
Jax Ivanrue Tondry
Liam Jinn
Eldrak Gruuhl
Jedi Master Leia Solo
Akrabbim
jedimaster skywalker
JMK
Alpha
Jedi Master Carr
Selena Kyle
Estelle Russard
Navaria Tarkin
CMJ
Jedi Neo
Ryla Relvinian
Shade Magus
Anakis Moreven
Number 62
Syrius Cline
Darth Vader
Chaos Alexander
Dasquian Belargic
Aaron Belargic
Alaina Edric
JediBoricua
Verse Dawnstrider
Loki Ahmrah
Soolin Anjhurin
Azhure Darkstone
Xazor Elessar
GJO Security
Agent Charley
Salemn Lysce
Maia Tharrinn
Taataani Meorrrei
Jakob Burton
JungleCat
Rognan Dar
Sage Hazzard
Kakita Yoshi
Natia Elessar
Jackson Mcgraves
Oriadin
Jedi Anakin Skywalker
Beldarine
Sejah Haversh
Clay Dennatta
Kajhmin
Aki Raa
Hunk
Lance Stormrider
D'Mourning Orb
Raymious
Kanji
Nyth Galanos
Sene Unty
Vanair Sharkan
ChildOfTheForce
Chance
Alor Seerdon
Evi Hawke
Tomak Ohara
Kack Mebuff
Obiwan2 Kenobi
Wicket W. Warrick Jr.
Dae Jinn
Kelt Simoson
Plo Koon
Paris Ga
Ange Tot
Maximas
Kit Fisto
Lion El' Jonson
Gabriel Xeanos
Arriana Daynon
D'Eza Malerik
Grey Riftblade
Ki-Adi Kindo
Kemille Eldervine
Torriana Marx
Zeke
PrincessLeiaAmidala
Saul Mordeth
Wei Wu Wei
Terran Starek
Sarr Koon
Pheonix Planesrender
Angelica Shin
Destiny Stormrider
Krieger
Diego Van Derveld
Levi Argon
Straffe Stormrider
Kyle Krogen
Aiden Rennure
J'ktal Anajii
Marga Alton
Rinoa Heartilly
Axel Grievers
Ebony
Yuran Fur'Dun
wraith swordstalker
Sameer Aryan
The Narrator
Commander Zemil Vymes
Samanosuke Akechi
Lillian Snow
Robot
Drake Lonerunner
Kurzen Fox
Cassidy Williams
Kale
Elijah Kalrico
Jackson DeWitt
James Prent
Lilya Goldberry
Logic
Aejin Rahn
Iago Kent
Alan Joyce
Hadrian Invicta
Liu Fong
Satine
Lime
Laila Annex
Agden Ithrin
Janus Riddyl
Garen Selore
Magnus Semaj
Jason Utylln
GraNi NaColu
Shanaria Fabool
Tony Maxwell
Everyones Angel
Jenos Turner
Shandri La
Aaron_Belargic
Leten Snat
Ka' el Darcverse
Aranel Oronrá
Marcus
Blues
Neyasha
GJO Janitor
Jazz
Telexia Xio
Camdyn Fields
Giddion Horn
Nadorj
Mitara Sinar
Finrod Ar-Feiniel
Abagael Zellan
Quay'Na Rakai
Matthias darkstone
Ace McCloud
Jacali Danner
Jandor Tarvin
Faith Lerf
Lady Mylia
Zacharia Dawnstrider
Dyrdre Lo


Here be the current access list. Would someone like to explain to me just what charley is doing with so many access names? Who set them for him?

I very much hope one of you lot been doing it and that will be an acceptible (barely) explaination. If he has been doing it without permission, I'm not going to be happy. I am rather staggered he questions Xazor's access when his own is a long way out of line.

[Figrin D'an]

I think Charley's question about Xaz's access was regarding IC status. If she had indeed left GJO IC, and did not have another Jedi character(s) with access, then it's legitimate to consider removing her access on her Xazor account.

Now... I agree that having so many user names with access is a rather ridiculous. But... up until now... it hasn't really been addressed in earnest, so it was allowed.

As far as whom allowed all of the user names... I have no idea. I could probably only account for maybe 5% of that list, in terms of names to which I have granted access.

[imported_Marcus]

Well, my question was only about Charley's specific accounts. IMO, he had no right being high and mighty when he's frankly gone too far himself and he has no right to add access for so many, esp non Jedi. I'm also asking who added his specific ones. I count at least 10, maybe more and not all of them Jedi.

Not as in who did most of the list.... tho it is a rather spectaclarly long one. Who has been looking after access??? I cant remember doing even 10%. I'm not qqurestioning I will add the whys - I see almost all have been Jedi or are Jedi so that's acceptible. I just never thought the access list was that big.

0_o

[Morgan Evanar]

I pulled the accounts I could, since we reached a majority already: I got caught up with dinner and school stuff and forgot to let everyone know, my appologies.

The only non GJO accounts that had access that don't still have access were two or three of Vega/Jenny's, a bunch of Rie's, and two of Xazors.

Well, my question was only about Charley's specific accounts. IMO, he had no right being high and mighty when he's frankly gone too far himself and he has no right to add access for so many, esp non Jedi. I'm also asking who added his specific ones. I count at least 10, maybe more and not all of them Jedi. Rie's list was just as long. Maybe you've noticed that Charley plays more people than most everyone else? Fact of the matter was that neither of us knew that Xazor had other Jedi accounts. Logically, she shouldn't have access if she doesn't play a character here. Charley plays two Jedi at GJO. Furthermore, he's never posted with his other characters in Avalon in an IC fashion. Under the previous policy (or lack there of) its perfectly logical that someone like Charley would have access with that many accounts.

[imported_Marcus]

Rie has admin rights here and hence has the right (or did, I'm still a wee bit confuzzed on this point) to add accounts as she wished. Charley does not. I want to know who's been adding them. was that you or rie? Then in that case, I'll shut up as that is fine.

If not, that is a clear breach of the hands off we're supposed to get. I mean, FFS, if I had the access to mod access masks elsewhere but did not have the authorisation to use it, I'd expect to be shot. That is what I am concerned with right now.

I am hopeful one of the GJO staff will say they gave those accounts of Charley access.

[AmazonBabe]

Rie has admin rights here and hence has the right (or did, I'm still a wee bit confuzzed on this point) to add accounts as she wished.

Yeah, I still have the abilities of an admin, and did give myself access with about 4 accounts (not counting AB) that I can remember. Morg went ahead and took the liberty and removed access to my non-Jedi characters, which is fine with me (saves me the hassle :p)


Charley does not. I want to know who's been adding them. was that you or rie? Then in that case, I'll shut up as that is fine.

It's possible I may have let some of his non-Jedi characters to have access (being at the time ppl, who were part of GJO, were requesting their other characters have access for conevience), but I know I didn't do ALL of them. As it is, I can't rightly remember if and when I may have given his other characters access. He might remember better than me.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Well, is it safe to say that we just take the list that we have now and address it as per the future, rather than who stole who's lunchbox? (I'm kidding, of course.) ;)

But seriously, if this is what y'all have decided on, then I suggest we make a "Justify your existance" thread somewhere obvious and have the names from that list that do not seem to be Jedi go ahead and show why they need access? Does that sound reasonable?

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Ryla Relvinian
But seriously, if this is what y'all have decided on, then I suggest we make a "Justify your existance" thread somewhere obvious and have the names from that list that do not seem to be Jedi go ahead and show why they need access? Does that sound reasonable?

I think such a thread is going to be a necessity. Having to cross-reference IP's for all of those names is a task I wouldn't wish upon anyone. We'll just make it clear that, if there are "anonimity" issues regarding any accounts, that said persons PM one of the staff with the appropriate information.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yes, that seems fair. :)

[Figrin D'an]

We seem to have a majority on this, as Morg said. I'm going to make the annoucement and post the thread per Ryla's recommendation. We'll leave it up for a month or so, and anyone who can't be troubled to read it and respond will simply have their access removed. It can always be reinstated later if it becomes necessary.

Seem fair to everyone?

[TheHolo.Net]

Yup, sounds good to me.

[Morgan Evanar]

Looks keen.

[imported_Marcus]

* sigh *

well, I guess I've been looking for an excuse to fire up one of my alt Jedi id's properly and fully. One day I'll have to use Chan some more and get him fianlly Knighted.

[TheHolo.Net]

If there are any issues with removing account names that any of you may not have permission to do so, please let me know via a post here (or the other list thread) or via PM and I will take care of it.

I will refrain from posting in the Temple forums with this name unless as an absolute last resort in a situation that demands it with no other alternatives.

[AmazonBabe]

Oh yes... speaking of which... you need to remove access for LV. I can't do it and reg mods can't cause the account's set as a mod itself. So you, oh master admin, must do the honors. :)

(But only for Avalon Temple and OOC. Not here. Here is ok me thinks.)

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by AmazonBabe
Oh yes... speaking of which... you need to remove access for LV. I can't do it and reg mods can't cause the account's set as a mod itself. So you, oh master admin, must do the honors. :)

(But only for Avalon Temple and OOC. Not here. Here is ok me thinks.) You are correct as far as I understand and agree with (the access list for this forum is small enough to be managable).

Acess for the LV account has been modified fot the Temple forums.

[imported_Marcus]

Sanis Prent
ReaperFett

Dalethria Mal Pannis
Evil Hobgoblin


I think those are the ones we noramlly cant change

Edit : Agent Charley as well?

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Marcus
Sanis Prent
ReaperFett

Dalethria Mal Pannis
Evil Hobgoblin


I think those are the ones we noramlly cant change

Edit : Agent Charley as well? Accesses modified.