Another question...

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

Mockadane IM'd me around 2 last night and told me that Eldorack (his rlson) and all of his nics had been banned from the OOC forum.

Mock went on to explain that Eldorack had posted from Soths pc (Mock and Soth are rl friends), not realizing that Soth's IP had been banned. I dont think that all the trouble that Soth has been in was discussed in front of the kids...probably due to a lot of cursing :uhoh

Is it possible to unbann Eldorack? Mock assures me that his son did not know about Soths banning.

(Now, Mock tells me that Eldoracks nic has popped up in OOC but asks if someone could look into it....oy! :) )

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Eldorack is banned from OOC but was seen in the forum?

I'm confused. >_<

[TheHolo.Net]

Soth was not IP banned from anywhere. His accounts were banned from the OOC forum.

I will now explain why the accounts you mention here were also banned. On the evening it occured (Soth's banning from the OOC forum), I watched as Soth logged into an account that had Eldorack's emal address, minutes after he logged out of his Soth account. I watched it live in Who's Online, via IP address. Soth logged into the "Barf" account, which is registered to the same email address as Eldorak.

Now I'm not one to be too heavy handed very often, but at this point it appears that they possibly share some account PWs or Soth has access to accounts he shouldn't have. All I can do is go by the evidence I see. For now I have gone ahead and restored Ambrose Braeden and Eldorak's access to the OOC forum, but not the other names with the matching email address.

And to explain why it was that Eldorak's name was seen in OOC: When banned from an individual forum or even from the entire board. If that person were to follow a link or input a url to a forum or the board in general (in this case a link to the OOC forum) it will look in Who's Online as if the person is viewing the forum, when in fact they are looking at a "No Permission" screen, and are unable to do anything.

Also: In this case since no IPs were banned and the forum access was removed for these accounts only, the forums would still be open for them to see if they logged out of their account(s), because our main forums are all completely open to the public ("Guests").

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

I followed that and understand why you did what you did. No worries. :) Thanks, Ogre.

Would you like for me to explain ir to Mock?

[TheHolo.Net]

Sounds good to me, maybe we can shed some light on the possibilities of Soth having access to accounts he shouldn't have or whether some accounts are just shared with permission.

Thanks.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

Youre very welcome :)

I probably wont see him until tonight, but will do the first chance I get.

[Empress Ashiva]

Soth and Mock, also Eldorack and I are rl friends. I myself have made accounts for Mockadane using my comp. I make almost all of Soth accounts and sometimes use my email addie so it is easier for me to activate it. Soth is my rl bro and we all live here in Bakersfield and have used one another’s comps at one time or another. If he "Soth" logged into Barf it was with Eldoracks permission but it could have been they were on at the same time because we are almost always on at the same time and Eldorack logged in. If it has Eldoracks email addie then the char belongs to Eldorack. I am the only one who will use my email addie to make Mocks or Soth’s nics and I can see why that would be confusing.

I only use it to make it easier for me to set the account up... Sorry if it was confusing for anyone. If you need anymore info on this please let me know and I will call them and find out what you need to know..... :)

[Figrin D'an]

For the sake of avoiding future confusion and problems, it may be prudent for the four of you to separate your accounts, using individualized email addresses, and to make sure that it is the primary user of a given account that actually registers it. Account/password sharing, even with close friends, can end up being a very messy situation. There are incidents from the early days of the board that demonstrated this to be true.

Just a suggestion, though.

[Lord Soth]

Got a little trigger happy huh?...


Well, let’s see if we can clear up this lil mess that’s come about…

First off, why would “Barff” or ANY of Eldorack’s other characters be ooc banned in the first place when I have my own Nic’s? Did “he” post in the ooc forum or flame someone to incur such an ooc banning with all his known Chr’s? And since when is it a violation or crime to have the same IP #?...If people want to share account’s that’s there business, NOT SWfan’s...There's a good reason why we do as Ashiva explained above.

And what make’s “you” Fan guy think I can’t access the ooc forum with one of my other 10 or more CHR’s? And in all honestly, if anyone wanted to view the ooc forum, all they’d have to do was “Log Out.” lol Have I posted in “your” precious ooc forum lately…No. And explain to me why “Soth” was banned from the ooc forum when it was “Uziel” and “Sliff” that was in that “particular thread” and found in violation of the FAQ according to you?...Why not my other CHR’s or other CHR’s that don’t even belong to me?…Or are you juz picking the one’s you wanted too ban? Just some food for thought…

P.S. Eldorack just informed me on the phone that a number of his Chr’s do not have ooc access…Please clean up the mess guy’s, he’s done nothing wrong here…Thanks

[Lilaena De'Ville]

*gently points Soth up to post number 3*

It was explained quite thoroughly why the specific accounts were banned as well. Please read before ranting. Thank you.

[Lord Soth]

Uh huh...But does that fix the problem?...Nooo...And there's no rant here Holly...Just some valid question's I assure you. I could care less how the mishap came about...It's obvious here. *gently point's De'ville up to post number 7*

Which lead's us back to the main concern here...Eldorack's ban from the ooc forum along with his “other” CHR’s. Or I can just inform him that nothing's going to be done about it? Thank you.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
For the sake of avoiding future confusion and problems, it may be prudent for the four of you to separate your accounts, using individualized email addresses, and to make sure that it is the primary user of a given account that actually registers it. Account/password sharing, even with close friends, can end up being a very messy situation. There are incidents from the early days of the board that demonstrated this to be true.

Just a suggestion, though.

that is how you are going to fix this mess. Soth going into another person's account is what started this mess when he got banned. Separate the accounts, and then the ban can be lifted.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Of course you can sign out and read everything that's going on in OOC. The point is that you were restricted from posting, which you can't do when you're signed out.

[Lord Soth]

Soth going into another person's account is what started this mess when he got banned. Separate the accounts, and then the ban can be lifted.

No, I'm sorry...That's NOT what started this mess...I wasn’t the one who did the banning via e-mail/url link/whatever remember?

As Alana stated above, we share accounts at time's and that is NOT a banable offence. (Sigg testing shared CHR's ect.) That's not an uncommon thing.

You want to explain to both Eldorack and Mockadane how sharing the same IP's/ e-mail's ect. justifies this banning? Or do you want to place the blame on me for "pushing the ban botton?" lol

It's funny, you keep glossing over the point here...Did "Barff" do something wrong here, juz because he has the same e-mail addie or he's given permission for that account to be used? Was it used wrongly? Common now, it's simple...Was it?

And another thing...I have my other nic's to do with what I will, thank you very much...As I said before...Anyone can get into the ooc forum, including myself with no problem at all.


I will now explain why the accounts you mention here were also banned. On the evening it occurred (Soth's banning from the OOC forum), I watched as Soth logged into an account that had Eldorack's emal address, minutes after he logged out of his Soth account. I watched it live in Who's Online, via IP address. Soth logged into the "Barf" account, which is registered to the same email address as Eldorak.

That's why “he” was banned?...lol So your going to tell me that if a friend came over to my house and logged in under "his account" and I got banned the next day, that alone justifies him being banned as well? Please...Is it so hard for the Add's to figure out who's who here? If it is, please explain...I'd like to hear this...

Edit:


Of course you can sign out and read everything that's going on in OOC. The point is that you were restricted from posting, which you can't do when you're signed out.


Ahh, hello, let's get our fact's stright here...I did NOT post with "Barf"...If I did, prove it.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Lord Soth
Got a little trigger happy huh?...If you were to act your age instead of like an angry child then there would have been no problem in the first place and no action would need have been taken. Continue to do so now and further disciplinary action will take place now too.
Originally posted by Lord Soth
Well, let’s see if we can clear up this lil mess that’s come about…

First off, why would “Barff” or ANY of Eldorack’s other characters be ooc banned in the first place when I have my own Nic’s? Did “he” post in the ooc forum or flame someone to incur such an ooc banning with all his known Chr’s? And since when is it a violation or crime to have the same IP #?...If people want to share account’s that’s there business, NOT SWfan’s...There's a good reason why we do as Ashiva explained above. As already stated: I watched quite clearly, as you logged out of your Soth account that evening and into the "Barf" account seconds later. Do not act like there was no tie in between yourself and the account. Just how many accounts that do not belong to you completely do you have access to?
Originally posted by Lord Soth
And what make’s “you” Fan guy think I can’t access the ooc forum with one of my other 10 or more CHR’s? And in all honestly, if anyone wanted to view the ooc forum, all they’d have to do was “Log Out.” lol [QUOTE]Have you forgotten how to read? I posted that same thing in my previous post to this very thread. Oh wait, you need to act like an angry child getting the better of me, I forgot for a second. Great job at making yourself look foolish with no help from anyone else.[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lord Soth
Have I posted in “your” precious ooc forum lately…No. And explain to me why “Soth” was banned from the ooc forum when it was “Uziel” and “Sliff” that was in that “particular thread” and found in violation of the FAQ according to you?...Why not my other CHR’s or other CHR’s that don’t even belong to me?…Or are you juz picking the one’s you wanted too ban? Just some food for thought…All of the accounts that were banned were tied to you, either by IP evidence or by email evidence. There was no discrimination. At this point I have no idea who else's accounts you have access to besides your own. I do know for a fact that you have access to at least one account that isn't registered as your own.

Trying to separate the OOC bannings of Soth from the accounts that posted in that thread is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. Its an OOC forum and you post with each of those accounts. When disciplinary actions happen in such cases there is no seperation of characters. Ask Daegal some time if only his Daegal account was banned when he was found guilty of infiltration.
Originally posted by Lord Soth
P.S. Eldorack just informed me on the phone that a number of his Chr’s do not have ooc access…Please clean up the mess guy’s, he’s done nothing wrong here…Thanks But you have by logging into accounts that belong to someone else. Denying it isn't going to work. I watched it live. I see IP addresses for each person viewing the forums in Who's Online, just like the SWFans RP mods do. IP addresses that match within the same 1 minute span do not lie.

If you decide to speak like a mature adult who can respond rationally and comprehend the points made in previous posts maybe something will happen to resolve this situation, but with your current attitude and failure to read posts made by others, I don't see things changing anytime soon. In fact, I see them doing nothing but getting worse.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Lord Soth
You want to explain to both Eldorack and Mockadane how sharing the same IP's/ e-mail's ect. justifies this banning? Or do you want to place the blame on me for "pushing the ban botton?" lol You laugh as if it is funny or just a big joke, but yes you are completely to blame for why those accounts had their access to OOC removed.

If you decide to keep acting like this then you will find your access to this forum removed as well. The next step after that will be IP banning, and I know you are not the only individual that will affect, but it will not be my fault, it will be yours.

[Lord Soth]

If you were to act your age instead of like an angry child then there would have been no problem in the first place and no action would need have been taken. Continue to do so now and further disciplinary action will take place now too.

Don't flame or bate me Fan's...It's hypocritical to do so. I made some very valid points here and who really gives a damn if I logged in as "Braff" anyways? Did I post with him in the ooc forum as I've asked now twice? What would I have done anyways with him...lol I have my own CHR's remember.


If you decide to speak like a mature adult who can respond rationally and comprehend the points made in previous posts maybe something will happen to resolve this situation, but with your current attitude and failure to read posts made by others, I don't see things changing anytime soon.

Ahh, I believe I've made some very rational and comprehensive point's here, not to mention informative and to the point. As far as my attitude, that's mine to dictate, not your brotha! I’ve stated all that need’s to be said here…I’m not going to be cornered in an ooc debate of who did what here, nor will I be placed on trial either…lol The topic is, "how to fix the problem" as Daiq and myself have requested…Obviously something that’s out of my hand’s and one that I leave up to you now SW fan's…That will be all.

Thank you :)

[Mistress Tatiana]

Okay, you guys need to cool it. It's stupid shit like this that made me not want to post here anymore, but for my bf's sake, I'm going to say something.

Whether or not he logged in as Barf, it doesn't really matter. He hasn't posted in the OOC forum since he was banned from it. I can assure you of that. He doesn't lie to me and he has told me such.

Just because his specific characters were banned, doesn't mean he still doesn't have access to that forum. If he doesn't log in, he can see everything that goes on in there. The only thing he can't do is post, which he hasn't done.

So here's my question. What the hell is the big deal here? Why is everyone up in arms on whether or not he logged in with another character. If so, so what? He didn't post. Hence, no violation.

[Alana Stormcloud]

Shouldn’t someone go to Eldorack to confirm that Soth logged into Barf? Or any of the other names you think Soth may have access to? Because I can tell you he doesn’t log into any other accounts other than his own. I in fact have to log into Soth’s just to fix things like sigs for him from time to time and I also log into Mocks and Eldoracks to do the same thing for them. I know for a fact that Soth does not log into names other than his own at least not Mocks, Mine, Eldoracks, nor Saurron’s. But I do on a few of them and also Soth being my rl bro shares brandwidth with me. He in fact shares my comp and his comp is directly linked to mine.

Mock and Eldorack have posted from my comp which is why it can share ip. So what I am trying to say is ask Eldorack or Mockadane if Soth logged into the account before you accuse because I know I have logged into them to help with something and I also know Soth has not logged into them for any reason.

Soth is trying to explain this to you and you are reading it as abrasive well with all that we have been though with certain things maybe you can see why we come off as upset when accused of something we did not do. Because we know the out come no matter what is said........

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Mistress Tatiana
So here's my question. What the hell is the big deal here? My question exactly. Backed up by this contained in my first post. Yet your bf decided to try and make a big deal out of it, while Daiq said she understood.

:: shrug ::
Originally posted by SWFans.Net
For now I have gone ahead and restored Ambrose Braeden and Eldorak's access to the OOC forum, but not the other names with the matching email address.
Originally posted by Mistress Tatiana
Just because his specific characters were banned, doesn't mean he still doesn't have access to that forum. If he doesn't log in, he can see everything that goes on in there. The only thing he can't do is post, which he hasn't done.How many times do I need to repeat the answer to this? I stated the exact thing in my first post.

I made no mention of whether or not he made a post in OOC or not, I watched him log into an account that evening and thus it and all those with the same email address lost their access to the forum as part of Soth's disciplinary action. Whether he posted with the account is not an issue here. If you don't like this being a big deal then accept the facts and consequences and move on not continuing to make it one, because I certainly did not.

[Mistress Tatiana]

Okay, so we both agree that this isn't a big deal.

::Is totally shocked over the fact they agree on something::

Another question. When you ban a person from a forum, are you banning them by e-mail address or by chacacter names?

[TheHolo.Net]

Names when it is forum specific. (its access maks - the same thing used to allow access to private forums can be used to disallow access to public forums)

But I use email addresses to link people's different characters, unless I need to resort to IPs to find which names belong to a person to remove access to each different name.

[Pierce Tondry]

The point, I think, is that Soth was banned from the OOC forum as punishment, not as a matter of convenience. The punishment would therefore extend to whatever nickname he makes use of, and if he is making use of someone else's nicknames, the punishment would then extend to them too; not to harm the other user, but to continue disciplinary action against Soth.

I think we can all recall days where infiltration was not just a taboo word, but a hated practice. Since that time, it has been generally acknowledged that the best way to avoid any problems regarding infiltration, account confusion, or any other nickname problems is not to log in as any account that isn't yours. Doing so places those accounts at risk.

Edit: WOOHOO! People posted while I was typing! Awesome! If any part of this is redundant or useless, just ignore it. :)

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Pierce Tondry
The point, I think, is that Soth was banned from the OOC forum as punishment, not as a matter of convenience. The punishment would therefore extend to whatever nickname he makes use of, and if he is making use of someone else's nicknames, the punishment would then extend to them too; not to harm the other user, but to continue disciplinary action against Soth.

I think we can all recall days where infiltration was not just a taboo word, but a hated practice. Since that time, it has been generally acknowledged that the best way to avoid any problems regarding infiltration, account confusion, or any other nickname problems is not to log in as any account that isn't yours. Doing so places those accounts at risk. Bingo!!!

[TheHolo.Net]

Also as a note for signature help and the like which was previously mentioned.

Group mods do have the ability to edit the signatures of regular posters through their mod CP without need of logging into someone else's account.

[Mistress Tatiana]

SWFANS:
So, in this case, all you have to do is find out from Eldorack which names of his got banned because of the confusion with the e-mail addy and unban them, right?

Everyone Else:
Okay people, this is really easy and simple, and not a big freaking deal, so chill out.:\

[TheHolo.Net]

It wasn't confusion alone.

I watched Soth log into the "Barf" account which holds the same email address as Eldorak. I watched it live as it happened. That leaves questions in my mind as to which of Eldorak's accounts does a member of the community who was banned from OOC have access to.

I already went ahead and cleared access for two of the names registered to that email address out of kindness even though I have my doubts about who has access to the accounts. So I have already bent some on my convictions. Other than that I am unsure how I can be assured that the accounts are owned and used by only a single individual.

[Mistress Tatiana]

This goes back to what I said earlier. Who cares if he did or didn't get in with a character that belongs to someone else? That forum isn't a private forum. It's an open public forum. He can go in there now if he wanted to without logging in. So in this case, it makes no difference if he does or doesn't log in with another character.

I think it would be totally different if it were a private forum and he was using someone else's name to get in. Then I would understand what you're trying to say. But for this particular situation, it doesn't matter. That's why I keep saying, what's the big freaking deal?

[Milivikal k'Vik]

The issue is who has access to that account?

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Mistress Tatiana
This goes back to what I said earlier. Who cares if he did or didn't get in with a character that belongs to someone else? That forum isn't a private forum. It's an open public forum. He can go in there now if he wanted to without logging in. So in this case, it makes no difference if he does or doesn't log in with another character. The difference is this: He cannot post in the OOC forum when not logged in. Yes he can read the topics, but that is all. With access to another person's account he can post.

That is why the other accounts had their access removed, because the staff has no way of knowing, until it happens, which accounts he can or cannot post with. I saw him log into an account that carried Eldorak's email address, therefore it is hard not to assume that he probably has access to other accounts registered to that email address.

The disciplinary action is serious and trying to find ways to subvert it in secret will not be accepted. Therefore I was left with only one course of action to avoid the possibility of other accounts being used to post in the forum with the facts I had at hand, remove their access as well. As I just said, I have already bent some on that conviction by allowing two of the accounts registered to that email address back into the OOC forum. I am uncomfortable with it, but it is done.

[Mistress Tatiana]

Well, I know you guys don't like Soth and don't trust him, but I can vouch for him in this.... He has not posted in the OOC forum since his banning, and will not be doing so in the future. I know you find that to be of little consoles, but that's the only assurance I can offer.

Thank you for unbanning Eldorack's characters since he has nothing to do with all of this.

[TheHolo.Net]

It has nothing to do with like or dislike. It has everything to do with more than one blatant FAQ violation, continued after a mod warning, as stated when it occured.

And you are welcome.

Also, just a little something that might help make my stance here a little more clear.

Here is a hypothetical situation for you to consider:

Say my (me not being an admin) account name is “Jedi Lester” and I had done a bunch of flaming and misbehaving in your forums (The Shrine) so you and your staff decided to ban me from your forums. You do so. “Jedi Lester” is now unable to post in your forums.

Later that same day, you see me post flaming the staff or whoever in your forums again, as a name that already belongs to someone else like “Pierce Tondry”. You can tell it is me by the IP address and the style of flaming/misbehaving. What would be the surest way to stop me from flaming or misbehaving in your forums again?

[Mistress Tatiana]

I would tell Pierce Tondry to change his password so that you couldn't have access to his name, otherwise I would ban him.

I know the point you're trying to make, but your made up senario doesn't match that of what has taken place. Soth never went into the OOC forum under another name and contiuned to post. He's respected the banning thus far and will continue to do so. And in fact, from when he told me about the banning that occured, he really didn't care about being banned from the OOC. I was more upset about it when I heard than he was banned from that forum. He has no desire to post in the OOC forum. He has no need or desire to go into someone else's account to post.