Help with specializing

[Dasquian Belargic]

I'm trying to think of something I can focus on as Dasquians main strength. At the minute he doesn't really have one - he can heal himself, he is quite good with telekenesis and his saber, but otherwise ... nothing.

Anyone got any ideas?

[imported_Marcus]

Empathy, (To understand, to be at one with) is a skill I dont think anyone has developed well. Mainyl cause it's not sexy or apparently usable in the current SW-Fans RP scene. Being able to knwo what is wrong and knowing the best way to right it.

A Jedi Negotiator would need this, a Jedi class we dont have many of.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Excellent. Then I'll research and see about persuing that. :)

[Loki Ahmrah]

I think having Dasquian become a skilled empath would be fitting for the character, and original.

If I may use this thread for a similar purpose, I'd like to discuss the direction in which I am planning on developing Loki's abilities. If you'd rather I start my own thread then I'll edit the following out of this post. :)

At the moment, his greatest skill is lightsaber combat, when it comes to the Force he is strongest in the Sense aspect so it isn't too difficult for him to distinguish whether or not someone is a Dark Sider or not, unless they're masking their presence. He also has some skill in telekinesis due to having a master who is very powerful in that ability.

To cut a long story short, I was planning on Loki not developing in one specific ability per se but rather have him study and develop skills which will allow him to resist and defend against Dark Side attacks. Although, suprisingly enough, this wasn't inspired by the Harry Potter series, I believe I'd like him to be a Jedi "Auror" - a sort of Defense Against the Dark Arts Jedi.

Now I'm just wondering a) could this work and, b) what would be the best way to go about it?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Depends if you get Moody or Umbribge as your DADA Professor.

Your idea is possible - just need to line up which skills would be most useful. In tabletop RP terms, you want your resistance rolls as high as possible thence Disernment (Ability to tell the difference between illusion and truth), Mental shield (resist mind tricks), Absorb for energy attacks, Form III lightsabre and continued study of Telekinesis with the aim of creating a virtual 'shield' from thrown objects much like Yoda in AOTC

With such an emphais on defence, it wont be easy to attack in return, but I guess you want to be like a rock in a storm that can't be moved.

[Ka' el Darcverse]

Originally posted by Marcus Elessar
Depends if you get Moody or Umbribge as your DADA Professor.


Or rather Marcus or Anibra as your DADS (Defense Against Dark Side) Professor... :P

[Vega Van-Derveld]

Danger Sense, Sense Force Disturbance, Truth Sense, Anticipation, Force Shield, etc

Sounds like a good idea to me, Loki.


Form III
The third great discipline focuses on deflection and defense as arts alone. It is a highly refined expression of non-aggressive Jedi philosophy. Form III maximizes defensive protection in a style characterized by tight, efficient movements that expose minimal target area compared to the relatively open style of some of the other forms.
Form III Masters are considered invincible.

and yup, that sounds about right.

[Leten Snat]

Shanaria is working on Empathy as a secondary specialization.. Her first being her mind powers(effect mind, mind trick, mind infiltration, Ect...). I'm wanting Shanaria to be something like a Jedi Councilor, or Jedi Pyscotherapist....

[Loki Ahmrah]

Yes, Marcus and Vega have hit the nail on the head. The idea of focusing on defense against the Dark Side is that if Loki can block Dark Side attacks and all that jazz then, like in the Yoda/Dooku confrontation, which was essentially my inspiration for this, Loki's opponent would be forced to resort to lightsaber combat.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Loki, your idea sounds neat! I'd be really interested to see how you play that idea out.

Das, IMO, would be an excellent empath. It could even be one more thing to set him and Aaron apart, if you decided to go that route.

Well, I'm looking for direction for Ryla as well, oddly enough. (Must be something in the water) ;)

She's done a wide variety of things but is by no means a jill of all trades. I've enjoyed the RPs I've done with Figrin regarding negotiation and archival business, but what do you guys think? I know she doesn't do much off-world stuff, and I want her skills to be realistic.

All opinions welcome. :)

[imported_Marcus]

What, Archivist / Librarian / Greeter? Thjat might be up your alley.

Computer Use
Empathy
Jedi Knowledge
Force Gather Info
Languages (Read / Write / Speak)

Based on a character with high wisdom and intelligence.

I think, for a unique ability, would be to create and maintain Holocrons. The pwer to distern knowledge withthe Force would be a key, like knowing were and when to find something someone needs.

Sort of like a Jedi search engine :D

(BTW, a lot of what I'm suggesting is result of reading the new Star Wars Roleplaying Core rulebook, which, unlike WEG's version, is really good for this type of thing. It's great to use to build a logical character and somethig I'm using to rebuild Elessar)

Rather interesting people are looking to be unique and resonably specialised in their role as a Jedi. I like.

[James Prent]

Well if I could just get some training... :uhoh

I wanted James to be a sort of diplomatic/negotiator type Jedi. But right now she's so basic in all her skills I have no idea. Any suggestions? Anyone want to help train her? Please?? :cry

[Ryla Relvinian]

Ooo... Mark, that's a darn good idea.

Now that I think of it, I did a RP a bit ago that involved lightsaber construction knowledge, so that fits right in I guess. The holocron idea is excellent! I hadn't ever thought of that.

The empathy trait is an interesting one, but I can see it working for her. Well, good stuff. :) Time to go practice, eh?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by James Prent
Well if I could just get some training... :uhoh

I wanted James to be a sort of diplomatic/negotiator type Jedi. But right now she's so basic in all her skills I have no idea. Any suggestions? Anyone want to help train her? Please?? :cry

I can help.

Okay, Dipolmat is actually a pretty standard Jedi template, called Consular. wisdom, Charisma, Intelligence needed.

You will need mental powers (Bluffing, Diplomacy, Empathy, Sense, Farsight, Friendship, Gather info) as well as knwoing how to intimidate, Jedi Knowledge, Jedi Profession (Know how to entertain), Read / write / speak language to some degreee, Sense Force, Sense Motive, Telepathy and healing.

[James Prent]

Okay...sounds good. A lot of work will be needed to shape my little padawan into a diplomat. :p

[Dasquian Belargic]

Sounds like James has much more to learn than the rest of us ^_^;


Das, IMO, would be an excellent empath. It could even be one more thing to set him and Aaron apart, if you decided to go that route.


Aaron is going to become a telekenesis mastr :D

[Ka' el Darcverse]

Ahh well why we are on the subject and Marcus has his hand book out, I've been considering something like Loki but with a slight difference.

I want Ka' el to be a hunter of sorts, more aggressive than Loki's style. Almost have a complimenting style to a defensive Jedi possibly to work in a tandem with him.

So that being said what would be smart for him to learn. What forms of saber, telekinesis and the like?

[imported_Marcus]

Ah, standard Jedi form of Guardian is a goosd basis to start from. Dexerity, Consitituion and Strength are what a Guardian requiers for tabletop RPG.

Now, your looking for a more aggressive form of lightsabre, so II or IV would be better. I'd say Form IV to begin with, after Knighthood, Form II. Form VII or formless should be left only really for Masters IMO. III and IV is what I would think Padawans are best to begin learning with first.

As I've been thinking about this issue a bit lately IMO again, a Jedi warrior should not be open to a Padawan, but should be something a Guardian can switch to after Knighthood, due to the aggressive nature. Too easy to slip to the dark Side without adequate control.

Okay, back to Guardian.

Your character needs to have, Speed, Jedi Battle mind, Enhance ability, Force Defence (ie Danger sense), Stealth. You need to be acrobatic (jump, tumble, twist). Study of telekinesis so as to throw objects.

If you want to also hunt, Jedi Knowledge and Force Gather Info is also recommended.

And away you go after that :)

[Kelt Simoson]

Both very good ideas, though i see Aaron as a in a saber specialization to be honest. :)

[Figrin D'an]

For my character, whom is very much a diplomat and scholar, but is also skilled with a sabre, his focus is on Forms III and V, which seem to compliment one another well.... Form III for strong defense, Form V to compliment the defense with the powerful counter-attacking motions. That's just a suggestion, though.



Just so everyone is clear, since I'm not sure how informed everyone is on that kind of thing...



Form I - Basic form taught to all padawans

Form II - Sophisticated "swordsman" style, great for combat against other sabre-wielders, but weak against blasters (Example User: Count Dooku)

Form III - Emphasis on defense, blocking, wearing down opponent. Form III masters are almost impossible to defeat, but often lack the offensive capability to defeat a strong opponent. (Example User: Obi-Wan Kenobi, after Qui-Gon's death)

Form IV - Very althletic form, using jumps, speed and acrobatics for positioning and advantage. Uses open, sweeping moves, linked together in sequences. Preferred by those who want more offensive capability and versatility than Form III, though not as strong defensively. (Example Users: Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn)

Form V - Uses parts of Forms III and IV, but focuses on powerful, broad strokes to defeat an enemy swiftly and efficently and less on flashy movement. Uses Form III defensive manuevers and augements them with strong counterattacks. Considered too aggressive by some, Form V offers great offensive capabilities. (Example User: Anakin/Vader)

Form VI - The "diplomats" form, a combination of Forms I, III, IV and V. Often learned by those whom focus less on combat and more upon other areas, it requires the least intensive training. Form VI masters are generally well-rounded, but can be overwhelmed by a master of another form. (Example Users: Most Jedi in AOTC.)

Form VII - Intense form, difficult to learn. Combines athleticism of Form IV with the offensive ability of Form V. Uses wide open sabre moves, but is extremely unpredictable in battle because of rapid changes in sabre movement in mid-attack. True Form VII masters can defeat large groups of opponents in short order through the combination of quick attack and constantly changing strategy. (Example User: Mace Windu)

[Ryla Relvinian]

Hmm, with that knowledge in mind (Thanks Fig!) I'd say that Ryla would most likely use Form V. Nice and rounded, more technical than creative or flashy. She does have the background in an more athletic form, such as Form IV, but would have begun to transition into IV or even III, I suppose.

*Wanders off to research Holocrons* :)

[Pierce Tondry]

I should mention that the Form V maxim is "peace through superior firepower" which may or may not be what some people are looking for.

PS: Pierce is both empath and Form III student. I thought of it first, monkeys. :)

[James Prent]

Who wants to help me learn how to intimidate!! :D

[Vega Van-Derveld]

:wave's @ James :)

here's a more detailed thing on the forms, btw. Dasquian would be a Form IV-er, and Aaron a Form V.


Form I
Form I is based on ancient sword-fighting traditions, since the principles of blade combat has remained much the same. The basics of attack, parry, body target zones, and the practice drills called cadances are all here. (This would be akin to standard run of the mill sword combat taught as the basic's of almost every style of sword combat)

Form II
The ultimate refinement of weapon to weapon combat became Form II, advancing the precision of blade manipulation to its finest possible degree and producing the greatest dueling masters the world has ever seen. (This would be akin to Fencing with rapier not foils. )

Form III
The third great discipline focuses on deflection and defense as arts alone. It is a highly refined expression of non-aggressive Jedi philosophy. Form III maximizes defensive protection in a style characterized by tight, efficient movements that expose minimal target area compared to the relatively open style of some of the other forms.
Form III Masters are considered invincible.

Form IV
Form IV is the most acrobatic Form, heavily emphasizing Jedi abilities to run, jump, and spin in phenomenal ways by using the Force. Masters of Form IV incorporate all the ways in which the Force can help them go beyond what is normally possible for a person to do. Their combat is astonishing to watch, filled with elaborate moves in the center of which a Jedi may be all but a blur.

Form V
Form V arose to address a need for greater power among the Jedi. Jedi who feel that Form III could be too passive train in Form V. A Form III master might be undefeatable, but neither could he necessarily overcome his enemy. Form V focuses on strength and attack moves. A dedication to the power and strength necessary to defeat an enemy characterizes the philosophy of Form V, which some Jedi describe by the maxim "peace through superior firepower." To some Jedi Knights, Form V represents a worthy discipline prepared for any threat; to others Form V seems to foster an inappropriate focus on dominating others.

Form VI
This Form balances the emphases of other forms with overall moderation, in keeping with the Jedi quest to achieve true harmony and justice without resorting to the rule of power. It is considered the "diplomat's Form" becuase it is less intensive in its demands than other disciplines, allowing Jedi to spend more time developing their skills in perception, poltical strategy, and negotiation. In practice, Form VI is a combination of Forms I, III, IV, V. Young Jedi spend their first few years studying Form I and then a year or two with each additional Form before completing their training. By comparasion, A master of any other Form will spend at least ten years studying only that form after completing the basic Form I training. Form VI well suits the modern day Jedi' role in society, in which a Knight overly trained in martial combat might be at a loss to resolve a complex political conflict between others, However full masters of other Forms sometimes consider Form VI to be insufficently demanding

Form VII
Only high-level masters of multiple Forms can achieve and control the ultimate discipline known as Form VII. This is the most difficult and demanding of all the Forms, but it can eventually lead to fantastic power and skill. Form VII employs bold, direct movements, more open and kenetic then Form V but not so elaborate in appearance as Form IV. In addition to very advanced Force-assisted jumps and movements, Form VII tactics overwhelm opponents with seemingly unconnected staccato sequences, making the Form highly unpredictable in battle. This trait makes for a much more difficult execution than the graceful, linked move sequences of Form IV. Form VII requires the intensity of Form V, but much greater energy since that focus is wielded more broadly. Form VII draws upon a deeper well of emotion then even Form V, yet masters it fore fully. The outward bearing of a Form VII practitioner is one of calm, but the inner pressure verges on explosion. Form VII is still under development since so few can achieve the necessary mastery to advance the art.

[James Prent]

Well James will certainly be Form VI :p

[Dasquian Belargic]

I just noticed you list Obi-Wan Kenobi as a Form III. I always thought, after seeing Episode I, that he was a Form IV o_O


PS: Pierce is both empath and Form III student. I thought of it first, monkeys

wrah.... so we do already have empaths here, they were just hiding :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Hmph. The summaries leave me cold on a OOC professional opinion basis. If that's the best descriptions come up with, then whomever came up with them has little real sword / sabre fighting knowledge. I'd rather define the forms in a few words and then move on, leave the descriptions to people who have a clue about martial arts.

1) Basics

2) Duelist

3) Defensive

4) Speed / Movement

5) Aggressive

6) Diplomatic (Why the fuck did they bother putting this one in? It's covered by 3) and appears redundant )

7) Sabre Master (must master 2, 3, 4 and 5 first)

Formless) Combines techniques and weapons training outside of Jedi norm along with Jedi techniques.



Thats the way I tend to think of them - I get a better mental picture of the stances, the footwork, the hand grips and body balances needed, plus level of difficulty.

If anything, I think of Marcus, with his perferrance for real blades, odd techniques and unusual sabres as formless - or Form VII if I had to define within the Form guidelines. I'm loath to do that, even if he's an accoplished Sabre Master. I cant really put his style into a box.

[Dasquian Belargic]

http://home.comcast.net/~BrandelValico/Lightsaber_Fighting.html = my source


I am doing so mearly for my own amusement. In reality these explanations refer to actual Martial Art and Sword fighting techniques and as such can be dangerous.

I don't know how reliable he/she is, but they seem to know what they're talking about. Then again I'm not knowledgable on the matter so they could be talking a load of dren for all I know.

[Marcus Telcontar]

He/she pulled the Forms from SW.com I think, I've seen them before. I wasnt impressed when I saw the forms then and I'm not now.

However, the rest of that page is pretty legit and not too bad. Of course, it's not canon, but theres some good RL techniques.

[Pierce Tondry]

Form 6 is not covered by Form 3. It's essentially a smattering of the forms 2-5. The idea was for the learning Jedi to have enough of an idea how to use each individual form that they could pass muster and still have the time they needed to focus on things like diplomacy. In the Old Republic just before Ep1, there's supposed to be little need for Jedi to go into combat and great need for them to negotiate settlements to fights and such.

Edit: That should be 1-5, excluding 2 'scuse me.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I'll rephrase and recconsider myself. Form 6 is filed under BASICS and still redundant. I still consider that a diplomat is best off under Form III.

Form 6 really should be more of a intermediate step to 7 and just the blah it is made out to be now.

[Ryla Relvinian]

It's funny to read these in the context of one single weapon. I mean, modern-day sword styles are reflective of the weapons used. A strong defensive mode would correspond to a Rapier/Dagger combo, whereas a flashy mode would be more like Fencing. A strong, agressive mode is like working with a broadsword, I'd suppose. But all these are defined by the weapon, the weapon's weight, handling, and time period refrenced. Interesting. :)

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Dasquian Belargic
I just noticed you list Obi-Wan Kenobi as a Form III. I always thought, after seeing Episode I, that he was a Form IV o_O


Obi-Wan was a Form IV student for a while, as both Yoda and Qui-Gon, his primary instructors, were Form IV practitioners. However, following Qui-Gon's death, Obi-Wan began to study Form III, because he felt that Qui-Gon's defense (and his own) were insufficient to best a truely skilled opponent. (Qui-Gon, obviously, had a lot of trouble battling Darth Maul, and Obi-Wan himself got lucky because Maul let his guard down.) You can actually see in AOTC how his style has changed from TPM. In ANH, Obi-Wan can still be seen using the strong defense philosophy of Form III.

That's why I included him as a Form III user.

[imported_Marcus]

Originally posted by Ryla Relvinian
It's funny to read these in the context of one single weapon. I mean, modern-day sword styles are reflective of the weapons used. A strong defensive mode would correspond to a Rapier/Dagger combo, whereas a flashy mode would be more like Fencing. A strong, agressive mode is like working with a broadsword, I'd suppose. But all these are defined by the weapon, the weapon's weight, handling, and time period refrenced. Interesting. :)

Fifty points to Hufflepuff

[Ryla Relvinian]

:p

It's true though!

[Marcus Telcontar]

Yes, it is. One more reason why whoever thought up the Forms is an assclown

[Figrin D'an]

There are plenty of idiosyncracies associated with different types bladed weapons that constitute different styles or forms for that given weapon. There are dozens of different overall offensive and defensive strategies to be found in fencing, and there are equally as many in kendo. Using a broadsword, believe it or not, is not as simple as running up and swinging it at the enemy as hard as you can... not unless you want to die very quickly because you leave yourself wide open to be split in two.

Is it so hard to accept a few generalized categories for lightsabre usage? It's not like it's the be-all and end-all of sabre technique. It's just a way to describe some of the styles that Nick Gilliard developed for the movies. There is plenty of room to expand upon the few general ideas provided in those simple descriptions. Or just ignore it and develop your own style, which is what most everyone around here does anyway.

[James Prent]

*I* like the forms. Bugger what Marcus thinks. ;)

[Ryla Relvinian]

*Swings around her F*ing huge Broadsword*

(Actually, I did much better with Rapier/Dagger, but oh well, a girl can dream, right?)

I figure, you just match a form to your character and continue to fight with little or no thought of how you're really supposed to do it. Mebbe someone can come up with a new style set, neh?

[Marcus Telcontar]

I prefer a claymore myself. I prefer something a wee bit lighter that gives good control with decent striking power. The william Walace Claymore is just the thing I prefer. The other weapon I prefer isnt a sword, but a bo-stick, which I did with black belt training. A very, very useful weapon indeed.


Is it so hard to accept a few generalized categories for lightsabre usage? It's not like it's the be-all and end-all of sabre technique

If there was some sort of logic to them, sure. Anyway, withthe sabre Marcus has, he has to be formless. It requires a much different technique.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I think it's time for Ryla to go build a new lightsaber. I'm in a long detailed posting mood.

BTW, does anyone want to RP with Ryla for any particular reason? I'm at a loss for things to do at the moment.

[Dasquian Belargic]

:wave You want to help look after Valanya, Ryla? You seem good with kiddies :mneh

[Ryla Relvinian]

Aww, I get stuck with all the kids these days. What, do I have a target painted on my forehead or something? ;)

How old is she anyway? Isn't Xazor taking care of her?

[Dasquian Belargic]

She is only a little bebe and Xazor is off kicking ass somewhere.

*left holding the baby! :o*

Not that I mind ;)

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yeah, I bet not. I won't be surprised if Xazor runs off when that little kid starts teething. She'll be switchin' to bottles reeeeely quick. ;)

[Dasquian Belargic]

You're telling me. She is a violent one (didnt inherit that from me :uhoh). Already biting my fingers and anything else she can get her hands on. Like ears, for instance. :x

[Xazor Elessar]

:(

I'm still her mommy.... :cry

[imported_Marcus]

The way she kicks the living shit out of her cot when she wants changing says your her mommy :p

[Ryla Relvinian]

Well, if what I have planned works out, Ryla will be asking you two for some parenting advice. ;)

[Pierce Tondry]

It will work. Trust me. :)

Oh, I almost forgot (and boy have I done that a lot lately).

Exerpted from Shatterpoint.

"She is a master of Vaapad."

In the silence that followed, he studied the folds and wrinkles of his interlaced fingers, focusing his attention into his visual field to hold at bay dark dream-ghosts of Depa's blade flashing toward Jedi necks.

"Vaapad?" Palpatine repeated, eventually. Perhaps he'd grown tired of waiting for someone to explain. "Isn't that some kind of animal?"

"A predator of Sarapin," Yoda supplied gravely. "Also the nickname it is, given by students, for the seventh form of lightsaber combat."

"Hmp. I've always heard there are only six."

"Six there were, for generations of Jedi. The seventh... is not well known. A powerful form it is. Deadliest of all... But dangerous it is-- to its master, as well as its opponent. Few have studied. One student alone to mastery has risen."

"But if she's the only master-- and this style is so deadly-- what makes you think--"

"She's not the only master, sir." He lifted his head to meet Palpatine's frown. "She is my only student to become a master."

"Your only student..." Palpatine echoed.

"I didn't study Vaapad." Mace let his hands fall to his sides. "I created it."

Some Form VII info from the Jedi Holocron himself. :)

[Figrin D'an]

That's pretty cool, actually. It helps to give Mace Windu and even greater "bad-ass" image. :)

[Pierce Tondry]

Matthew Stover perfectly captured the character. Shatterpoint really is a must-read for people interested in the Old Republic Era.

[James Prent]

mace is my HERO :cry