Ye Olde Guarde (Or: What I'm doing and what I think you're doing)

[Morgan Evanar]

Many of you know, there are us old dirty grizzled veterans, sticks in the mud who tend to stick together. Its only natural, after all. Medium to large sized organizations tend to form smaller sub-groups of people with similar interests.

Some people slide right into the old guard like they were here at the beggining. S'Ilancy, for example. She got thrown into the pool and was doing the 100m butterfly better than some people who had been here for a year, they were just getting the hang of the breast-stroke.

Before I continue, I'm not going to be using examples to be insulting (tho word on the street is that I'm pretty good at being obnoxious. Thanks guys.)

The Breakdown: Objectives, Intentions, and a Side of Realism. Or: My little take.

Existing groups can really be glued by two reasons:
1) Friendship Glue
2) Purpose Glue

I personally tend to fall into catagory two most often. I'm fairly serious about the content of the roleplays I'm involved in, and the writing behind them. While I don't edit each post, I do evaluate what I write, in terms of content and realism.

I'm going to use Zeke as the polar example, and I genuinely hope he doesn't mind: Zeke's surrounded himself with friends, and he tends to do lighthearted roleplay stuff. Which is fine, if thats their thing. I am less likely to roleplay with Zeke because of this approach. I may be "missing out" in some ways, but that sort of thing really runs counter to the way I work. This limits some of us who have a "realism" approach to RP.


The Dreaded Unknown: Newer Roleplayers

The absolute biggest problem with new RPers is that we have no idea what they're going to do. I worry about this, and it makes me insular. I don't want some knob who thinks they know what they're doing mucking up my character with their dirty, slimy newb juices, if they suck. Nor do I want them in an unpossible situation.

Nor do I want to be stuck with someone I can't read, which brings us to the next section:

Fighting the Writing. Or: We're clearly doing different things here, who the hell taught you English?

I write fairly well. I am a moderately effective and coherent writer. My grammar and spelling are usually close enough to be easily understood.

This is important to me. Not because I'm a grammar nazi, but because I have limited time to try and do this. I don't want to fight anyone's writing. If you can't express your ideas in something resembling paragraph/sentence structure, you're useless to me.

This isn't a huge problem, but sometimes it happens, and I am loathe to bother with you IC or OOC.

Realism
If you've bothered to stick with me so far, you've noticed me throwing the word around a lot. Physics, political situations, attitudes of the popluace and indivduals, and, most importantly: feasability.

Some of us have even gone so far as to outright dismiss the works of some of the SW novelists. "Not Zahn or Stackpole? Trash." If its impossible, I'm not interested. "Har, I don't have time for your silly nonsensical crap!"

Its how I operate, for the most part. I like realistic, decently written roleplays, and new, unpredictable people worry me.

This is obviously something of a commentary on what we're doing and why we do it, so I'm interested in other perspectives. If you noticed the tag, NSP, I'd like it to be clean.

[imported_J'ktal Anajii]

I tend to agree with you, Morgan, but as a member if the Midway crew, I have a little different insight.

What I call the Midway Crew are the folks who have been here between a year and a half, and a year. We have established our characters as not going away, but haven't quite done enough to warrant real respect from the Olde Guarde. Some of you, and I don't mean to be offensive, for I understand your point of view, jsut don't associate much with new players, and we feel ignored. So, we turn to those who will play with us, other new players. Thus, Friendship bonds are formed, like Zeke and his group. I was on at slightly the wrong time of day to get in on that, so I've sort of been a freelancer here, not belonging to any one clique or sub-group.

Newcomers are hard to predict, whetehr it be their character actions, or their willingness to change. I have seen brilliant newcomers, and some awful, awful ones. The term Martial Artist Fisting comes to mind... But, as a newcomer in an influx of others, I got lost in the shuffle, and it took me about five months to really get noticed, because I wasn't doing anythign extraordinary. In fact, it wasn't until I was able to gain the attention of Gav that I was really pulled into any kind of popularity with my Best Archer thread.

Newcomers are jsut as uncomfortable with the Olde Guarde as you are with them. Nobody knows each other, and the newcomers are actually quite intimidated by these people with 3000+ posts whom everybody seems to know. Honestly, I can't think of a good solution to the problem, myself. Only that we all need to be a little more accepting of newcomers, unless they give us reason to shy away from them. (Corking in a showcase of pleasurement, anybody?)

As far as poor writing goes, I know I'm a bit of a hack sometimes, and that's because I'm not reading enough lately. That, and I have typos up the wazoo, but, all in all I consider myself pretty decent. I agree with Morg, though that if your writing is bad, I usually won't read it. Period. Same goes for Netspeak on IM services. how r u 2day, and things like that cheese me off to no extent. Type right, it's your own dang language, don't bring about such a hideous death to it.

And, please, folks, let's all think about realism. Honestly, if you're new, don't go backflipping all over the place and throw lightning gut-punches at me. If your character is a martial artist, please STUDY whatever form it is your character should use, even if you ahve to check out a book from a library. Everybody should at least understand basic physics if they plan on a fight, and understand mechanical physics when writing about ships or exotic weapons. I have tried to be quite realistic in what I've done, and I hope it has shown through.
And that's about it from me, for now.

[Sene Unty]

Well put J'ktal. I must agree as well since I would fall into that category of "midway crew". However I too have not really been involved in any group so I am basically rogue as well. (this is probably all due to me not really posting RP's that much...I either have no time or no patience to sit through one till the end.)

I can agree that noobs can sometimes be scary...I too have seen my share of bad posts, but than again I can sympathize with the feelings of non-involvemement and intimidation felt by newcomers because in some extent I still feel that way.

Really I have no way for "fixing" this or anything, because in reality I don't think it will be fixed. It is understandable for those that have been here a long time to feel comfortable in posting to those that have been here as long as them. And of course you will have the crossovers of people who are compatible with those that have been here before. I don't know if there is anything necessarily wrong with that....

As for bad writing...YES! Jesus there is nothing worse than something that is incoherent....if you can't spell it don't write it! Thank you...

[Morgan Evanar]

Oh, in OOC non-serious situations I thoroughly enjoy butchering the English language, mainly through mispelling. But thats because I understand what I'm tinkering with fairly well.

I have a mental list of people I'd like to RP with but can't think of a good place/way/plot to breach the subject. Thats 3/4 of my problem.

With the midway folk, its lazyness on my part, and I appoligize. I just can't think of what to do half the time. I make the time to read some people's stuff, such as yours, J'ktal. We all have our hacky writing bits, but I at least try and back it up with legitimate content.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I think of newer people want to RP with older people, all they have to do is ask. Unless the idea is totally stupid I for one wouldn't say no, and even if it was farfetched it wouldn't be too hard to try and work out something of a compromise.

I really enjoying getting into role-playing with new people, but equally I remember being terrified of Charley and co. I suppose all you can do is put yourself out their, throw out some ideas and get talking to people. Most people have contacts in their profiles, if not there is always the handydandy PM feature.

http://casalecb.no-ip.org/swf/vega/spellcheck.jpg

[Kelt Simoson]

I ecoe Jens words.

Anyone that wishes to RP with me, new or old just has to ask..though up untill lately ive been idealess but i think the old me is returning :)

[Sene Unty]

Sure that's all true Jenny but the actual approach can still be nerve-rattling. Still its a good thing to remember for any newbies that there are those that are willing to listen to you...all you got to do is reach out.



Originally posted by Morgan Evanar
....at least try and back it up with legitimate content.

Very very true. All should understand that you can use all the fancy words you want but if your content is trash then your post is too.

[DarthHERA]

I find my approach to Roleplaying is for the most part "Story" glued. If there's a story in it, Im happy to be involved. I find the best part about rping is when people react or respond to what Ive written in a surprising manner or something I didnt expect. Its where I find the fun. The range of wit and imagination here is wonderful.

Point : feasability.


Realism is BIG with me. Huge. I know this is fantasy/space/imagination etc..but if someone's character is often doing ridiculous absurd feats or strength, force, healing ability or something, chances are I will avoid you, as to counteract that I would have to do similar ridiculous feats, and I refuse to do that. It also detracts from the game imo, as problems are too easily solved, when sometimes, the best part of the story is the result of NOT being able to fix certain things.


I agree, that for new people it can be difficult to approach those who are well established here. I think its up to the old guard to try to be aware of new people and take a chance on them. I have in the past, and have come out relatively unscathed. The smart thing is though, to do it in roleplays that aren't pivotal to your character or what you are trying to do, so that if it goes awry, theres no harm, no foul. Maybe just jump into one of their roleplays and see what happens. Thats often a good gage of a player - how in general they react, when you do that.


I dont have a big problem with poor grammer..though it can be annoying trying to figure out what the player is doing when you cant understand what has been written.

Bottom line - If I can find a purpose for my character to be in a thread, I will be happy to join in.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Morgan you have some very good points. I think I'm considered one of 'the olde guarde,' but I've tried to keep myself open to the newcomers as well.

I haven't done a lot of RPing with him, but Zeke occasionally bounces ideas off me, I bug Sejah on AIM once in a blue moon (you know ...those nights when we're the only two people awake in the WHOLE WORLD! ;)) but I've also found that it is near to impossible to reach out to EVERY newcomer. I believe the Midway Crew and the Olde Guarde are getting more and more comfortable with each other. After all it takes some commitment and staying power to make it here for a year and a half.

Taylor Millard stands out as a n00b who went about integrating himself the right way. He picked my AIM name out of a hat, or something, and became a leech to me. :D He wanted to know the ins and outs of swfans, and TSO in paticular, which at that point in time I was just getting banished from due to some character indiscretions. :mischief He was *always* asking questions, and to a point he still does... :mneh

However I think its a good example of what to do if you're a n00b...or if you suspect you may be. Find someone who's writing style or storylines you admire, and then take the first step, and message them. Everyone needs a mentor, and its hard for "the Olde Guarde" to get to know EVERYONE who joins. If you're serious, let us know and we'll do what we can to help you out.

If you're bound and determined to go out singing "I did it my waaaay," then more power to you, but you're probably not going to get the maximum amount of enjoyment out of the boards.

[Charley]

I dont have a big problem with poor grammer

This makes me :D

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

hehe, hell I've been here forever and I just about a year ago found the groups I now talk to daily....as far as new people go, I'll be nice to ya, answer any questions asked if I know the answer, and I don't mind new people....

grammar doesn't really bother me anymore, I've long since gotten used to it with the exception of this type "how r u doin'?"

[Kitty McQuade]

I guess three years here means I've finally made it into the Olde Gaurde, although I still feel like the little girl sitting in the corner. Not sure where my niche is, but I'm always open to RPing with anyone.

[Time]

I'm new here (about a month) and i can definately relate to what your saying about newbies here. I often find myself intimidated by the vertren posters, and although i haven't really gotten my hands dirty in too many RP's i have already made some friends.

And since this is my first time doing this kind of stuff (RPing) i'm pretty timid when it comes to doing much of anything. But as time comes and my char developes i hope to shake off my cold feet.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

I think I had it easier than most noobs. I spent 4 years at TalkCity where Hera, Eve and I became good friends and I followed them to the old TSE. I left the boards for a while but when I came back (over a year ago), there was Hera and Evie welcoming me again. They introduced to their friends, explained the ins and outs (some of which I had to learn the hard way, being stubborn as I am) and gently pushed me in the right direction.

Theres a couple of the 'old guard' that Im still hesitant about approaching but overall Im at ease with them. I think the new RPer has to make an effort to watch and learn and the seasoned veterans need to be available to lend a helping hand...or two. :)

I might not be much help but I would do what I could to help someone new. :)

[Silus Xilarian]

Honestly, what I think could really help to improve relations between everyone is pure and simple critism. It helped me a lot when I came in, to have a friend that I was comfortable talking to already here, so they could show me the in's and out's.

Even so, Ive never had trouble dealing with criticism, and its helped me to better my RPing. Recently though, with an wave of new people joining the forums, Ive personally dealt with people who flat out refuse critism. I know some of the older RPers here may seem a bit scary at first, but honestly the ones who have a reputation for being nasty are actually some of the best to recieve critism from.

From the start Ive made it clear to everyone Ive rped with....If im doing something stupid, tell me. Occasionally, I get to hear "James, thats stupid." Oh well.

In a nutshell. If you're new, remember: They've seen it a hundred times, of course they're annoyed by it. If you shape up and fix your mistakes, you'll be easily forgiven.

[Morgan Evanar]

In a nutshell. If you're new, remember: They've seen it a hundred times, of course they're annoyed by it. If you shape up and fix your mistakes, you'll be easily forgiven. This is somewhat true. I'd even go as far as to make your first character 'disposable." I've even lobbied for a global reset of the entire roleplaying timeline, because as a community we're so far ahead of where we were three years ago (in respect to realism, especially). That was shot down, twice. I'd push for a third but I don't see interest in it.

Seriously: you'll probably regret your first couple months of roleplay from an in character standpoint. Not because it was truly terrible, but it wasn't cohesive in some manner due to your lack of experince. If something isn't covered in the FAQ, by all means ask in OOC. Questions regarding someone's character your interested in, or a groups history are almost always met fondly. You're learning on your first account. If things go badly, quietly dropping it into obscurity and registering another one more quietly works very well.

[Park Kraken]

Originally posted by Morgan Evanar
Seriously: you'll probably regret your first couple months of roleplay from an in character standpoint. Not because it was truly terrible, but it wasn't cohesive in some manner due to your lack of experince

Much truth in that from my standpoint. Although I don't think I did as bad In Character as I did OOC.

[Strider]

You know I'd like to add something here, but after the past few days I'm afraid I've come down with the dreaded "Speak before thinking" disease.

But anywho, I try not to seperate anyone into groups anymore. If your new and need help, I'll gladly help out. If your old and I'm doing something wrong then tell me so I can fix it. Got another problem with someone, PM them and work it out. If people don't communicate how will anybody learn at all.

Oh and if your wondering who this is, don't worry. When someone can remove the cloak, then I'll tell all.

[Peter McCoy]

I consider myself an oldie too. I think my first roleplay with Garrett was the very chaotic (compared to how things go today) Death Star 3 thread. But despite my time here, my roleplays tend not to get that much attention. But my first roleplay with Taro Idol received massive amounts of attention. I realised that was why. I didn't roleplay with garrett in that thread. Over the years, through my Garrett account (both IC and OOC) I've come across as unpredictable, silly and insane. I think thats the reason why my threads with Garrett don't get any replies unless I ask people like Gav, Hera and LD if they'd like to join in. I feel like there's some kind of stigmata attatched to Garrett Blade thanks to past actions. He started off as a very cliche character, actually based on Blade from the movie (starring Wesley Snipes) but a miraculous change occured when he was killed and resurrected (Garrett Blade, not Wesley Snipes!). I enjoy roleplaying the character a lot more now than I did when I first started, but I don't think my actual writing improved. I honestly think I'm worse at roleplaying than newbies are. I'm roleplaying a character who's thought and cognition are very hard to understand and I don't think I'm doing a good job. But I still enjoy it and I applaud anyone who sees one of my roleplays through (Hera HAS to be commended for this!). So like in real life, I'm a non-conformist in that I'm one of the old, yet I'm distanced/separated from them. I just get the feeling that when people who have been here as long as me, or at least know me/my character, sees the name "Garrett Blade" they roll their eyes and carry on down the thread list due to their expectations. Maybe he's still cliche and I'm just not aware of it!?

My post presentation, when it is bad, is due to me typing to fast. I often re-read my posts and find things like "A she was walkin galong" when it should read "As he was walking along". I seem to be compelled to really smack the space bar early. My apologies. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if similar mistakes were found in this very post!

I think I can get away with the realism factor with Garrett. He is insane after all, so his perception of reality is going to be radically different to those of sane characters. Thats not to say I can get away with doing things that are unrealistic. But I can certainly throw the concept into a roleplay. Say for example, Garrett went on a quest to find an artifact that would allow him to control the Galaxy Q-style. Unrealistic, and of course I'd never have him succeed. But Garrett honestly believes its going to work whether it will or not once he's got it. It makes for an interesting conclusion when he realises that it doesn't work. In fact he'd probably use it and think its working, like in Friends when Phoebe thought her blinking wa smaking the TV change channels. But the initial introduction of the idea throws people off.

I come up with wacky ideas for roleplays since I can't see Garrett doing other things in a way I'd find fun to roleplay. And then if I do jump into a more "normal" roleplay, he receives little interaction so I just think "Why bother!?"

So if you do see a thread by me entitled "The Great Time-Traveller" or words to that 'unrealistic' effect, please don't overlook it expecting it to be far-fetched and literal. There is a method to my madness.

Or is that 'a madness to my method'? :crack

[Arya Ravenwing]

*raps Peter's knuckles* Time travel! Why, in my day we had hyperspace and we were grateful! ;)

Seriously, not trying to get into that argument again. :D

I've not always enjoyed your portrayal of Garrett, but you do play him quite consistently. He has been, as long as I've RPed here, a constant thorn in the side of sanity. It's refreshing.

Back to the 'regretting the first few months of RPing'... it is absolutely true. My first RPs really suck. LD wasn't a cohereny character, although I had a pretty healthy backstory written up, I hadn't fleshed out her strengths and weaknesses to the extent that I have now. For instance, in my first RP with Garrett, the <a href=http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8686> Dar'kal'arth: The Resurrection</a> thread, LD used illusion quite extensively.

Not only was she only an apprentice, but I have since decided that to balance her out, she is unable to tap into her mental powers at all. So illusions = impossible for her. Ah well, ce la vie.

So to all new posters, I'd say, be open to changing your character. Not because someone says you should, but because as you creatively explore your character in RPs, you'll find there are things you want to do that are different than they were when you first started. Realism is a big part of this. It wasn't realistic to have LD be good at EVERYTHING. She had to suck big time at something in order to be good at something else with the force.

So, instead of being a jack'o'all trades, LD deals mainly with telekinesis and all that entails, being adept at even manipulating blood vessels inside the human body. (She *is* a Force Master, after all, and she doesn't do it by snapping her fingers.;)) She's also trained herself into top physical condition, and learned hand to hand fighting as well as saber use. But she has to keep extreme mental blocks up at all times, to keep her chaotic mental powers from 'leaking out' and destroying her.

Whenever she panics and has to try to use any sort of mental powers with the Force, LD ends up in a coma or near death. Its happened a few times. Generally not something one wants to have happen near an enemy. She can't 'receive' telepathy, nor can she see through illusions. *shrug*

Realism is key! Keep it real, folks!

As to this character, I evolved Arya into a shapeshifter, but then decided I hated that part of her character, and so I hardly use it. But I DO use it from time to time....

[Helenias Evenstar]

I would call myself an old timer - while I guess I dont show my head much, I have been around the forums for almost as long as Marcus has. I personally hardly know anyone, mainly because my work schedule makes it difficult to do so.

I for one have always struggled with two issues. Well, three, now I think of it as I type.

1) Realism to Star wars.

I prefer to use canon material, ie the films which can't be argued against. The Jedi in the films are not shown as throwing energy about, so unfortunantly I do find myself left behind when fireballs and lightning are tossed about, because I am unwilling and uncomfortable with that. Though, no doubt I have the respect that would allow me to do that, if I so chose. To me, it just doesn't really fit to my mental image of a Jedi. My preference then was normally to play something like an Imperial Guard, with a bit of Force skill thrown in, using intelligence and fast wits to survive, rather than outright power.

Jedi are fallible, The Force is not a get out of jail free card, it cant cover all contigencies, nor can it be used like magic. That is what I believe anyway. I however, do not have any power nor should I to make a call where someone draws the line.

2) Time on-line

I have a probelm where I will be gone for a few weeks, come back, then find my thoughts and ideas about a thread are gone, or the thread has moved on without me. It's not something that is anyone's fault, it's an observation about myself. It also means I can't really get to roleplay with more people, I have to restrict myself and go with a certain stoeyline so I have a hope of remembering what is going on. I can't really participate in open fights. And other people would have to lose patience with me, right?

3) Differentiating myself

There is one thing that I am careful with, that is making certain you can spot differences between myself and Marcus. Being on the same home network, it would be too easy for one of us to slip too close in style to the other, thence basically becoming the one person. I will, therefore, write only in first person, which is somewhat harder to execute well IMO. I have one character, which I play as well as I can.

But if you really want to spot the difference, look at the -ing. Marcus has a bad habit of -ign.

So, when you roll that together, I am forced mainly to write when I can within a set group of people, a small set group. I can't really do much more.

For others, I would recommend to stay away from First Person style, unless you can write well. Also, I would recommend never write someone's reactions and never write you definantly hit, unless there is no other option.

Helenias herself is strong at Foresight mainly, true hand to hand combat is a speciality.

[Ka' el Darcverse]

I am basically an old noob or a new middle. I've been at fans for a little over 7 months now. If you notice my post count it isn't all that high. Why? Well for one, I started with a disposable character I rped with him for a while, I didn't like how he was going and i dumped him to start Ka' el and a few others. Still though I find myself struggling, for a few reasons.

1) Plausability: I only rp myself in situations that are plausiable for me to be there. You'll never see Ka' el wandering about looking for someone to fight, I try to rp him on missions and get darksiders to pick the fights for me. I don't like to put Ka' el in situations that I know he has no chance in, therefore I rarely rp without another Jedi around.

2) Because of my set rule of plausability for my character I tend to want to rp Ka' el training or learning and if I do a general rp I want to have him in the prescense of his master or another respected Knight or Master. This leads to problems. One, I can't expect Fig to be posting to me continuously baby sitting my character but I also seem to have trouble getting others of the so called middle grounders or olde guard to rp with me. I've often set-up open rps as training devices and character builders only to watch no one ever respond to them. It gets frustrating and if you are a new rper you start to wonder if people dislike you writing style or if they think your concepts are crap and you tend to quit putting these open threads up. And I think that's where we get the problems we have with newbs and middle grounders. No one will rp with newbs other than other newbs so they rp with one another, then there is no one to guide us, help us keep things realistic because lets face it everyones ambitious and they want thier character to be great. Then the next thing you know you've got Agent Charely knocking at your door or a mod or admin pming you saying; "Hey You're God-moding" and the noob is like wtf, who are you to criticize me when you won't even rp with me or teach me the ropes, you just say "Read the FAQ" or ask ooc, well here's a better idea. Do what a master or mentor is supposed to do and train us, show us the ropes.

I've been lucky, I had Telan, Fig, Snack, and Taylor here to help me, they give me tips, make suggestions, criticize and compliment my work and thats one of the main reason I still rp here. I'm amazed at the others who haven't had mentors to help them through who stick with it, even though they get humiliated and mocked on ooc forums, they have more patience than I would.

I know that there will always be a few bad apples in the noob pool. People fisting in pleasurement or throwing lighting around like they were Zeus even after people have taken time with them, but you'll find most people more receptive to your criticism if you take the time to interact with them other than saying: "I've been rping for 10yrs here at fans and this is how it is."

Well that's fine and dandy but I bet it wasn't that way when you started, I bet there was an evolution into the Form we have today and I bet that things keep changing, improving being a little different than they are today so that when I've been around 4 years and I groan; "I've been here longer and that's the way it is," it prolly won't be the way it is now.

And yes I know some of you old guard will say that you did it yourselves and you trained yourselves, but would you like me to trudge up some old threads, I'm sure we'd find a ton of stuff that would be considered god-moding today, but that's fine. It had to be that way because you were trying to make something fun for the community and you had to do it through trial and error and there was no one other than yourselves to answer too. But noobs now have you to answer too and if you don't want us following in your footsteps of how things started here then show us how we do things now and don't just tell us to read the FAQ or ask questions, take time to rp with us and show us how it's done.

[Charley]

Then the next thing you know you've got Agent Charely knocking at your door or a mod or admin pming you saying; "Hey You're God-moding" and the noob is like wtf, who are you to criticize me when you won't even rp with me or teach me the ropes, you just say "Read the FAQ" or ask ooc, well here's a better idea. Do what a master or mentor is supposed to do and train us, show us the ropes.

I really can't be bothered to raise every new face around here and pick them up by the bootstraps. I'm here to make sure rules aren't broken...not to hold hands. I don't have nearly the amount of time necessary to do that, even if I took a sabbatical away from school and work and devoted my entire existence to these boards.

I'm pretty accessible about Q's and A's, and anybody who's IMed me has gotten the info they needed. That's fine. I'm in no way obligated, however, to seek out every newbie here and nurture their relationship with SWfans. Not because I'm a cruel, callous being (which I may yet be), but because no human being has that kind of time anyways.

It isn't utopian, sure...but when you're new here, you've got to make yourself a good sell. That's the best way to go about it. Sure, FAQ reading is always good, and all that, but if you're looking for mentorship, you've really got to stand out among the pack and ask for it. The old guard can't coddle everybody. Maybe it would be a better place if we could, but the influx is so great that people are bound to fall between the cracks. This place is enormous....there are hundreds of thousands of posts and threads, and hundreds of posters to boot. Not to mention that sometimes, we just flat out are doing our own thing at the time. We can't be expected to pull complete strangers into the circle at the drop of a hat. That takes time.

That kind of request is more than a bit unrealistic. Sue the pragmatist, I suppose.

[Ka' el Darcverse]

Never said you or anyone had to seek out every noob. I said that something needed to be done to prevent rather than treat the problem. We can sit here until our hands hurt from typing so much. I know that not everyone can reach everyone that the old guard and veterans can't teach everyone, but that doesn't mean you can't drop in on an open rp everyonce in a while for a noob. I know it might cost you 5 minutes to post to somebody whom you've never seen post before and that would be maybe 6 less posts inthe Weeeee thread at GJO one less post on today's WTF thread and just give them a reply once every few days, not only would it give them experience with a good rper but it would teach them how this place works and if the person is a total jack-off then you just quit fooling with them and tell others so they dont' waste their time.

And I realize some may not have time to rp with a person they are completely unfamiliar with, that's your perogative, I can't force you or even expect you to do that. But there are some who can.

And if you aren't going ot interact with noobs who don't show promise that's fine but remember that if you take one on as an apprentice to at least have the decency to post to them. Don't make someone who is trying to play by the rules and be a good noob wait 3 weeks for you to respond to their training thread or to an rp they are involved with you in, unless you've worked it out with them, especially if you are going to post in ooc forums.

My main complaint is that all too often we as a board put all the blame on the newb when if someone in the community of well over a thousand characters would just take the time to rp with someone new rather than create their 25th character or type their 80th reply to "Smells I don't Like" then maybe we wouldn't have as much trouble on this board.

That's my opinion you are welcome to agree or disagree as you see it

[Ryla Relvinian]

I honestly don't know what section to classify myself in. Chronologically, I've been here about three years (yep, it'll be three in August) but I don't usually do tons of huge, planned RPs. This has a lot to do with how I view the Jedi, but I'll get into that later.


Jedi are fallible, The Force is not a get out of jail free card

Couldn't agree more. One of the biggest problems with ANYONE here, any level, is that people fail to give their characters failings, weaknesses, inadequacies, etc. And, if there is a weakness, it's something noble (Like, "has a bad habit of running into burning buildings to save helpless damsels." or "Loves too deeply" or something like that) Yes, you can have these failings, but for crying out loud, normal humans that I know have real, honest to gosh problems that they have to deal with.

Ryla, for example, has lost a husband, mother and one miscarried child. This puts her view of the Jedi (told you I'd get back to it!) towards a very sheltered lifestyle. She stays in the temple and reads a lot. She views the Jedi as a more monastic order, and much prefers to sit and council, or seek more information rather than going on a mission. This means that when she does go on a mission, it is of great importance to her. Now, I'm not saying that you have to do everything like me, but just consider your character's personality before posting.

And, on a tangent, it bothers me when I see some of the so-called old guard razzing on the newbies. Yes, some justly, totally, completely deserve it, but you have to realize that they are just following a lot of our examples. You may have your character's back story immaculately crafted in multiple threads but all a new person sees is that you can do X cool ability. Yes, some go too far, but what exactly is so wrong with having a few unfamiliar RPs? Go down to the B&G, pull up a seat and watch the fun. Relax a little. This is a game, folks. :)

Bottom line: People, all people, get better through good practice. If they only practice with those of a similar skill level, where will they get to try out what works and what doesn't? I challenge all of you to think back to your first posts. Chances are you've changed too.

Oh, and any noob who wants to can RP with me. So there. :p

[Kelt Simoson]

I agree with Ryla there concerning the failings.

Kelt is quite a soft hearted man, which can lead him into all sorts of trouble. His failings are based around mostly caring to much for other people, while putting himself last. On top of that lately he has decided that most, if not all view him as a bumbling Jedi, clumsy and just there for a laugh, which of course he is not,and hes going to change that. Kelt now is starting to harden up a little and over time shall be more built emotionally and harder in a fighting sense also when normally he would give quite alot of leway. Basicly hes building himself to be a proper (in his mind atleast) Jedi.

So on that note i would say the failings aspect of RPing a character slides almost perfectly into realism catagory.

[Arya Ravenwing]

but would you like me to trudge up some old threads, I'm sure we'd find a ton of stuff that would be considered god-moding today, but that's fine. OH toooooo true! I had LD in her FIRST training thread throwing around Force Lightning. :lol

Anyway, any of my characters can and will RP with new Rpers. But honestly I don't have oodles of time to spend online, so PLEASE Pm me or AIM me or SOMETHING. :) Also, if you want to be in any of my current RPs, lemme KNOW. :D

[Dyrdre Lo]

Well, I know my perspective is a bit interesting. If I'd stuck with my old character here from a couple of years ago, I'd definitely be a veteran of sorts. But I abandoned her due to a loss of interest, direction, and internet access, so I'm new all over again.

It does feel a little intimidating to roleplay with people who are already comfortable in this universe and with each other. Then again, that's partly because my character hasn't fleshed out quite yet and is still a stranger in general. It was easier for me the first time I RPed here because I started out roleplaying with one of my close friends, so I wasn't a complete stranger. I'm sure I'll get more into the rhythm, though, once I've been through some training and the like. :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

Out of interest, who was your previous character? :)

[Zasz Grimm]

It gets frustrating and if you are a new rper you start to wonder if people dislike you writing style or if they think your concepts are crap and you tend to quit putting these open threads up.

I still feel like this. Though, I've RP'd here at these boards since I was 13ish-14 (wow, that makes it 4 years+ at my birthday), I don't know where to place myself. When I got here, Charley was DBZ LL, in almost every post there was a force frying pan going on, or a new Death Star coming up. Yes, true, there was much god moding, but that was a very long time ago. I remember that one day we all one lined, and it seemed the next day that we had correct grammer, spelling, etc. The same with html sigs, and then suddenly these really cool images that are just one jpg! (Still amazed to this day.)

Though, some people consider Zasz old, I don't have a niche. I still feel odd when I RP with people of the likes of..Ogre, Morgan, Charley, Hollie, Kitty, Lady Vader (Though I remember when she was just a little bitty dark sider, and I was superior. How ever did she get ahead?) etc. etc. I still shy away when it comes to talking to these people on AIM. I look up to them, though we came up together on these boards. Most of these people have become extremely tight knit, and like Morgan said, there are the exceptional people who are accepted immediately.

Where do I belong? I don't know. I do know, that when I see a newb, especially when doing something wrong, I get extremely frustrated. I do bash them, I admit this, because I don't take the time to speak with them. Since I have so much time, I should try and help them, speak to them. I'll try to keep this in mind in the future, everyone deserves a chance. I mean really, if you look at our old threads, you will see how corny our lines were, how cheesy our RPing was.

So, if you feel like you need help with RPing, or that your not doing to good, feel free to PM me, I will try to help with constructive criticism, or with roleplaying with you.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

I agree that having a mentor or two that know the ins and outs of the board and the way things are run here is a very good thing to have when one is new. But like Chucky said, the old folk just don't have the time to reach out to someone who they see promising and take them under their wing, in an IC or OOC manner.

I think a major step in curing the n00b plight is that the new people who come here have to take the first step and contact a seasoned RPer. Get to know them, ask them the ins and outs. Ask them for critiques on your posts; what they think you can improve upon to make it that much better.

Ask them what is reasonable and in touch with realism in the SW universe. Just ask relevant questions!

I've always been told that the stupidest question is the one that you can't hear (in other words, not asking a question in the first place). One won't learn the ropes without asking and getting their feet wet, and one won't get better unless they know what they are doing and feel comfortable.

And that all starts with the first step in making contacts with others here.

Are the old folk intimidating? Yes. But get over the intimidation and make the first move.





....Spell check is your friend.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Its funny. I don’t really consider myself as one of the ‘olde guard’. I honestly don’t really see myself as much of anything. I talk with whoever wants to talk with me, and offer my advice to whoever wants it; ic or ooc. Im a pretty tolerant person when it comes to most things, and unless you either directly or indirectly insult me, I wont bother you. But, that being said, im flattered that im considered one of the olde guard. Its nice to know, honestly. I never thought of myself as a prominent feature to the boards; I just came to play and have fun. I have nothing but the utmost for respect those who have been here much longer than I; morg, nup, holly, charley, hob, marcus, lv, hera, daiq, vega, taylor, helen; theres more I know, but my mind just isn’t working too well tonight.

For some of those that know me or have talked to me over the phone, or met me even, they know that I don’t like to repeat myself. I also don’t like to repeat what others say. So, I suppose ill explain a few things about what makes this place enjoyable for me, and why it was rather easy for myself to adapt.

First things first. Im 22. ive been writing for close to ten years, starting when I was 13. I started with my own little scifi stories, eventually developing my own races, planets, then further on up to a whole universe. I have more short stories on my comp than I can count, and thoroughly enjoy the medium of the written word. Along with art, writing is something I do to let go, to let myself into another frame of mind and world, to think differently. Its something I enjoy.

I don’t really remember how I found the boards. It was back when gjo was still on ezboard, and I must have been just surfing the net when I came across this site that, lo and behold, held a community of people who, like me, enjoyed star wars and liked to write. Needless to say I immediately started on my own character – loklorien s’ilancy – pulling her from my own stories to use. of course I changed her history from what it used to be, and now, shes become two completely different individuals. I watched things mostly, and even started my own ezboard. I know charley remembers it. And sejah as well. I have a lot to thank sej for as it is. He was pretty much the very first person I ever roleplayed with over at the journey board he had going for redwall rping. He helped me out a lot, and I took a lot from him, watching how he wrote, what he wrote, etc. so, when I stumbled across ezboard, I naturally invited him over with me. I think my very first post was about a week or two after finding the gjo, but even then it wasn’t even at the gjo perse. It was at the old galactic empire board. I met khendon sevon, and the both of us are the best of friends now, and talk to eachother as often as we can. I remember one of my posts at charleys board. I proclaimed to be selling cloning cylinders. He thought I was creepy :)

But that’s enough of that.

Ive always been story driven, and so I try my best to have my posts be as interesting as possible, keeping the readers attention. My posts aren’t horribly long novels, but they aren’t super short either. I see myself as rather in the middle ground when it comes to that, and I fully respect those that can rp using either short or long posts. For me, it’s a matter of observation. I watch how people write, and learn from them. One of the things that I liked from the beginning was the different writing styles that I saw; I still feel very strongly about that. Theres something to be learned from everyone, whether they be new or old. Also, the diversity of the community attracted me greatly. We have, what, people from England, Australia, Bangledesh, Canada, Germany, America, Russia (have I forgotten any?), it blew my mind, and still blows my mind that you people can come together and have fun regardless of whats going on in the world we live in. its nice to see; from my perspective at least.

Concerning roleplaying though, I look at it as something to be approached with a definite goal to have fun, but at the same time a loose sense of pragmatism needs to be excersized. I say loose because lets face it. This is star wars. And before you say, ‘but look at you! You play a lupine! Wheres the realism in that?!’, Id like to point out that there are many discussions in the ooc forums addressing such things. I remember charley started a thread bringing up lycanthropy in the star wars universe, and his points and reasoning were very easily understood and feasible. To me at least. To my knowledge, vega was the first to institute lupines on the boards; correct me if im wrong. On the flipside however, I know nothing of the garou aspect, so I don’t have anything to say about it.

When I sit down and write posts as s’il, as I said before, I submerge myself in her mindset. In essence, I become s’il, I suppose you could say. That makes it easier for me to write in the first place; that, and I feel I can glean more satisfaction from a thread. One thing I do meticulously, is pay attention to detail. I read what other people write, and no matter what the action, no matter how great or small, I almost always acknowledge it in either an offhand observation or other more drastic actions.

Also, along the same lines of realism, I try not to stretch myself between threads. Currently, im in 3 active threads with s’il; and even then I consider that bordering on too many. Shes not superwoman, and neither am I for that matter. I post to a thread I find enjoyment in, or I start a thread that I believe would be fun.

And then theres the dreaded word: godmode. Now. When it comes to godmoding, I never write an action to its conclusion. I leave that up to whoever im rping with. This is something hard for me to really explain more fully, except that never think your character is better than another persons character. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. s’il for example. Shes addicted to a drug called liquid silver. She cant touch silver or cortosis without being burned horribly, and if shes around someone using the force, she goes berserk and changes into a kill-happy vornskr. Shes an art thief, as well as an artist. She owns half of a company, but chooses to let someone else run it for her. she has alcohol issues. Father issues. Authority figure issues. She likes binders. She likes cheap beer. She has scars from two different lightsaber attacks. She hates dressing up. I wont go on for the simple fact that I don’t want to bore you (if I haven’t already done that).

Bottom line?

Heres what helped me, and still helps me to this day:

1. learning from others, spending some time watching how people interact with eachother, and talking with them using im, pm, or the ooc forum

2. maintaining realism and asking myself if what im writing is really feasible, not mention believable.

3. immersing myself into my characters world while paying attention to detail

4. not overextending myself

5. staying away from godmoding and treating it like the plague

6. remembering that my character is not infallible; she is just like me in that we both have faults, and she is in fact very prone to making mistakes; I can look at it as a way for her to grow and mature as a character.


So that’s it. No advice. No telling people what they need to do. Im just supplying information. What you people do with it is up to you.

[Senator Kensington]

I have to say that posting anything after what s'il wrote is very intimidating. I'm not sure if the Old Guarde realises that, but newcombers are afraid of posting after one of you geezers because it just looks stupid. In fact, this probably looks stupid. Most of the newcomers don't become friendly with you guys because they feel you are untouchable. This has been said already by those who have posted before me in this particular thread.

When someone finds SWForums, they are excited because they get to explore this new experience that they've never done before. They get to make their own characters with their own name, ship, pet, whatever. The newcomer is very enthusiastic but when he starts reading some of the things that the Guarde writes, he realizes that there is already an established hierarchy of sorts and thet no one will give a hoot in hell for what he writes, his ideas, his exciting story that he's written up in his head. This is no one's fault, really, and I don't see any solution but I have to admit that many aspects of SWForums are not new user-friendly. It's like that new resteraunt you walk into that you've heard about but it looks different and you have to order it in a weird way or something.

I haven't had any real problem posting or rping with you guys; be it OOC debating Visc or IC debating Hesith. Albeit the threads I've been involved in haven't really gotten anywhere fantastic yet, but that's not supposed to happen until you've found something that is feasible and that you have time for to post and follow through with. That can be difficult.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

BTW Kensington, I love your work with the Senate. :D Thareena gives it two thumbs up! I'm floundering in the Senate, as I'm pretty much politically dumb. :)

[Figrin D'an]

This thread brings up some interesting sentiments, about others and about myself.

Most everyone around here knows that, in terms of general board experience, I'm older than dirt. I'm up there with Marcus and Charley as people who have been around seemingly forever. I suppose that puts me in the "Olde Guarde." I'm not really crazy about the term or the association, but it's something with which I'll cope. Not because I don't like being associated with certain people... nothing could be further from the truth. More so because, despite my presence around the boards for years, my RP participation pales in comparison to a great number of people, including those who have been part of the community for far less time than I. I feel I'm far less qualified to be an "Olde Guarde" RPer than any number of people. I'm not particularly happy about the stigmatization that it can bring, either, as is evidenced enough by this very thread. Many see the more experienced members as very grizzled, staunchly centralized and harsh in their ways... perhaps it's a belief by some that there is a propensity for a core group of people to perpetuate their own egos. Regardless of reasoning, it's easy to see that rifts exist, and many people find it difficult to bridge the gaps, despite attempts by those in any such camps to explain point-of-view or offer solutions. I have no all-encompassing, sure fire solution to put forth, because these rifts that exist are the nature of the beast. People, in any social environment, have a tendancy to form sub-groups. It would be wonderful if a person could develop a comfort level to allow for cohesive interaction with each of his/her peers. Reality dictates otherwise.

All that being said...

I like to think that I'm an open-minded person. I like to think that I'm approachable on both IC and OOC matters, helpful whenever I can be, and forthcoming when giving my opinion. My perception of myself believes these things. Maybe I manage to actually fulfill those perceptions in the eyes of others. Maybe I don't. Honestly... I'm not going to lose much sleep over it. The moment I start intensely worry about such matters is the moment this all becomes a daily chore rather than entertainment, and thus leads to the moment at which I hang up the perverbial hat and find something else to occupy my time. With luck, that won't happen anytime soon.

I have little else to contribute to this discussion beyond what has already been clearly stated in far more eloquent terms than I can conjure at this hour.



Peace, love, and good roleplaying.

[Dyrdre Lo]

Originally posted by Dasquian Belargic
Out of interest, who was your previous character? :)

Ami Mizuno, if you can remember that far back. ;)

[Dasquian Belargic]

I do! Welcome back! :)

[Senator Kensington]

Thanks, LD! I really appreciate that. :) Watching C-Span, however mind-numbing, really helps.

[AmazonBabe]

I never thought about it till now, but I guess I'd consider myself an oldie. And while I don't mind playing with the newbies (and I do have to admit, there are some talented new comers to SWF), I tend to find myself RPing a LOT with the veterans of SWF.

I trade off and on between lighthearted RPs and serious ones, but everytime, it always seems to be with ppl that have been here at least over a year (with one or two exceptions).

I guess I'm very stuck in my ways.