The Official Shrine Panic Line Thread

[Charley]

Figured it had to be made, to condense things.

To start off: Why was the evil thread in question copied instead of moved back to the Shrine?

[TheHolo.Net]

I moved the original thread back to the Shrine forum yesterday late afternoonish or so.

[Charley]

is it possible you copied by accident?

[TheHolo.Net]

Nope. I verified it in the logs and in the thread after I moved it yesterday.

The one now in the ST forum was put there by Nav, and moved from the TBH locked forum.

[Charley]

Do the logs say who might have copied it then?

[TheHolo.Net]

The logs do not include who copied threads, only who moved, closed, deleted, closed, or opened.

The logs do show that the thread was moved to the TBH private forum originally by Morgan a few days ago (so he must have been the one to copy it on 6-16-03 4:15 pm) who only has temp admin abilities due to forum changes at GJO. It appears he has used those abilities for something he had no place doing.

[Charley]

But only a mod or admin can perform a thread copy, right?

[TheHolo.Net]

See my edit above.

[TheHolo.Net]

Morg's temp admin abilities have been removed.

[Charley]

Jesus H. Christ >_< This is bad news.

[TheHolo.Net]

I thought so too when I figured it out. >_<

I trusted him with the temp admin abilities to only use them for style changes at GJO and he has broken that trust, thus the removal of said abilities. (I PM'd him about it) >_<

And now it is getting made an issue of. :x

[Charley]

What the hell do we do now? I mean, this is serious and we've got to do something :(

[TheHolo.Net]

We delete or move (to this forum) the one in ST for starters, from there I don't know.

[Charley]

Soth is fuming and inquiring, and I've got to give him an answer.

[TheHolo.Net]

You could tell him that Nav accidentally made the copy.

[Charley]

Lie?

[TheHolo.Net]

Which do you think will go over better with them?

Morg was in their forums making a copy of a thread.

Or

Dale/Nav made a mistake and instead of moving, accidentally made a copy of a thread.

Really, its just a thread copy and shouldn't be such a big fucking deal. I hear they have copied threads from the old TSE board to their forum, what is the difference?

[Charley]

I'm just saying it was a mistake and is being deleted, so that should be fine.

The difference is that this is an internal matter, and we've punished people for less before. I'm really shocked and I don't know what to do.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Kitty told me that Soth okayed the moved anyway. so what the fuck is the problem? Morgan screwed up and had his priviledges taken away by Ogre.

[Navaria Tarkin]

side - if he does it again then all his mod privileges go poof

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Agent Charley
I'm just saying it was a mistake and is being deleted, so that should be fine.

The difference is that this is an internal matter, and we've punished people for less before. I'm really shocked and I don't know what to do. Give me an example please? I really don't see any harm in copying a thread.

I do have a problem with Morg breaking my trust and as such I have taken action.

And regular group mods cannot copy threads from other forums.

[Charley]

|I headache

[Navaria Tarkin]

gotta agree with that.

[TheHolo.Net]

After a million and one PMs back and forth I think the situation is cooling down. Mistakes made, admitted to, fixed, and thread intact in their forum. A day's work done.

[ReaperFett]

Good job Ogre

[Navaria Tarkin]

yeah... Mr Swfans.Net should be change to Mr. Diffuse

[TheHolo.Net]

Eh, the Shrine hates me, but I can live with that, its my place to be hated.

[Navaria Tarkin]

and adored by your Fans :)

:: showers adoration ::

granted I am biased :p

[TheHolo.Net]

Alana posted all of my PMs to her in a private forum of the shrine's, without my consent. I confroted her about it and she decided to sass an admin. Her Pms have been deleted and her ability to use the PM system with the alana name removed.

Sass a staffer and pay the consequences. Doormat days are over.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

o_O

Ogre - I wuv you! You're the bestest!

[TheHolo.Net]

:o

[Navaria Tarkin]

Is already in favor with Big Green

:: flashes ring ::

[Lilaena De'Ville]

:\ *grumbles something about being a divorcee with a cranky new man*

[Navaria Tarkin]

divorce?

[ReaperFett]

Cranky psycho dark Jedi ;)

[Taylor Millard]

O_o

Do I even want to know what I missed? I'm beginning to think me stuck in the airport last night was a good thing.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Taylor ... so you didnt hock your sword eh :p silly man!!

Taylor, read the long ass thread in OOC that is titled vamps. you'll see.

I forgot you were a part of the shrine..... o_O

[Taylor Millard]

I can't find it...I'll work on finding it tomorrow.

Yeah I gotta char whose a part of the Shrine. I thought I might try and make things easier for us by joining, that way if Shriners had any problems they could come to me. Or something like that, I dunno.

and no I didn't hock my sword...I'm glad I did either, though that bench I slept on was damn hard.

[TheHolo.Net]

The thread she is talking about is titled:

"IMPORTANT: Question for Shrine Veterans and all SWFans.Net community members "

But what happened today is covered in this thread.

[Taylor Millard]

ah okay I get it now...

Btw, Ogre...here's one Shrine member who doesn't hate you :)

[TheHolo.Net]

Whew! Cool :)

[Taylor Millard]

Okay, I've been talking to Soth and here's what I understand is going on:

1) Soth is saying someone deleted all his PMs, including Alana's. Then deleted posts at the Shrine.

2) And that someone has PMs to prove it happened.

Excuse me for wandering into this right in the middle but what is going on?

I feel as though I just walked into Capitol Hill right now. :lol

[Taylor Millard]

Hmm...I think I might know what's going on now...I think...

oh boy...I DID just walk onto Capitol Hill...:lol

[Navaria Tarkin]

1. After Alana kept sassin/yelling at Ogre after he said to stop it, she didnt listen and banned her PMing privleges only.

2. Ogre asked for the posted Private Messages to be deleted from the Shrine when Alana posted them without his consent.

3. Me nor anyone of the staff has deleted any posts at there board.

how this started? all kitty wanted to do was move a thread from their board to the ST board... Considering that the forums all are here, it would be easier then copy/psting a thread. From what Kitty said, Soth gave the all right, but when the thread was moved, everyone threw a fit ... Soth then claimed he did not give Kitty the all right and that it had to be cleared. Which is not what Kitty was told by me,

Also, Morg abused his privileges and copied a thread. Kitty wanted it to be copied (a la copied pasted) but he took the initiative and did it anyway and saved it at tbh. He lost his access to working on styles and stuff....

Stupid me, because I was confused, moved the wrong thread. So there wouldnt be more insanity, we told the shrine that I copied it by accident but it still wouldnt have matter because they were upset about the thread being moved anyway.

So there you.

[Taylor Millard]

Got it...thanks :)

Good Lord.

[Navaria Tarkin]

yeah good lord. and then it spilled into PM land with sorsha and soth >_< sigh ... nothing we can do about that but the nightmare continued

[TheHolo.Net]

Posts were deleted. Posts that contained private information that they did not have my consent in posting in a private forum. Had they exchanged them via email or PM, I wouldn't have known about it, but it has been well established around here that posting private conversations such as AIM and PM convos without consent is not cool in the least.

[Charley]

How did you know they'd posted this stuff? Aren't we supposed to keep out of private forums unless allowed in?

[TheHolo.Net]

Admins cannot be locked out of private forums. I do not read all material contained within, but I do keep an eye out for rule violations. I have iin the past warned TBH for stuff that was bordering on infiltration.

Alana and the Shrine were notified before their forums were moved here that admins would have access to them.

EDIT: When privacy and or infiltration rules are broken you best believe I will stand up and take notice. Anything else said or done in private forums remains private.

[TheHolo.Net]

And let me also add something to this that may help clarify something.

I do not take issue with everything that I might see in private forums that I do not like. I have seen several topics in the Shrine and in another private forum or two that were either flat out insulting of me or other members of the staff, and since they did not break any infiltration or privacy rules. I did nothing and said nothing. People do have a right to speak their minds, but when they do something that could be classified under breaking infiltration rules, I attempt to curtail it before it does become infiltration, so as to avoid the mess that such can cause.

And the bottom line in all of this: I know for a fact that I informed Alana before she okayed having the Shrine moved here that Admins would have access to their private forums.

[Navaria Tarkin]

I misunderstood Ogre about the deletion of posts... but I did know that the only ones that were deleted only contained PM's that Ogre did not okayed to be posted

[Shawn]

My head is spinning from all of this. :x I really feel bad that I wasn't around to help out. :(

[Navaria Tarkin]

:: hugs ::

Can't be here all the time :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I'm getting more and more concerned about the Shrine/Coven's use of copyrighted material in their RPs/fanfic/lineage.

Is there any way to find out if they really could get in serious legal trouble? As much as it might be slightly amusing to find them at the business end of a lawsuit, I really don't wish that on anyone, and esp. not anyone hosted at this board.

[imported_Eve]

You know, I have been hearing alot of crap about our staff vs. the shrine. Me? I don't give a shit. However, I propose that if they're such a problem here, unwilling to comply, and end up being a bundle of problems in the end, just deny their renewal of membership (as a board) here, when their time comes. Ogre has the right, and doesn't have to accept payment.

That, or we can keep on.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

o_O er...

Anyway I looked at Anne Rice's official site and it IS true, just go to Seen&Heard > Messages from Anne > Announcements.

I'm not trying to pit up against the Shrine, that isn't it at all, its just if we're going to deny Blade the right to portray characters from X-Files, it's only fair that we uphold the same standard to everyone.

I didn't post a link because I didn't want the webmasters of her site to follow us back to here and find 'fanfic' or whatever. ^_^; I was paranoid I know.

[Navaria Tarkin]

"I do not allow fan fiction.

The characters are copyrighted. It upsets me terribly to even think about fan fiction with my characters. I advise my readers to write your own original stories with your own characters.

It is absolutely essential that you respect my wishes."

That is written word for word on her site. Now i know why it was down, the whole site got remodeled.

Anyway ... if we want to get out of this mess incase she ever finds out about this three things need to happen in my view. Ashiva needs to go, especially since they use the pic from the Queen of the Damn movie. Pandora would mostly like need to be changed as well because of the ancient backstory and name. Pandora was the same character in the books. That disclamier that their characters are based on Anne Rice needs to so be gone and anything about them copyrighting their backstory gone too. They are copyrighting a copyright for gods sake :rolleyes

I believe that this needs to be done since it is still Rice's current wishes, I dont care how long they have been here. What if by chance a month or a year from now someone knows about this? Personally, I think we've been lucky since we arent on a lot of search engines and of course no one has said oo look! vamps from anne rice.

Most importantly ... I don't care how much they bitch, when and if they do. We have had others change their names with little issues around here, or pics being changed. Show them the disclamier on her board. If they claim to respect the woman, they should respect her wishes and not put our board in danger that the admins/mods put a lot of work into.

edit - If this is agreed on by the staff, Ogre has told me personally it shouldnt be him that tells them, nor should I after my wonderful quiet departure from their group

[Lilaena De'Ville]

OK I have an idea.

Silus/Darren is a member of their council. I'm going to give him a heads up on the Anne Rice thing, and have him break it to the Shrine. That way it is coming from him, someone they actually like, and not a member of the 'establishment.' I'm going to let him use my name, and basically say "LD was looking through some copyright pages and found one pertaining to Anne Rice and we will all be in deep poodoo if we're caught using her copyrighted names/characters."

So it'll be an unofficial thing for now. Until the rest of the staff agrees, which I think they will.

I think that if the copyrighted names/lineage is not gone from their site that Swfans is under no obligation to continue to host it. Which is tough for the Shrine, but swfans has to CYA.

In light of recent events they will probably react VERY badly to this, which is why I think having ME/Silus as a combination is a good idea. I wasn't really involved in the other fiasco, although I totally 100% back everything that was said byt he Staff, I jsut happened to be MIA that day.

Anyway I'm rambling...basically copyrighted stuff needs to be gone or else they are.

[TheHolo.Net]

Its working well so far. Akasha requested her name be changed to Ashiva everywhere it appears.

Thanks gang. :)

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Eve
You know, I have been hearing alot of crap about our staff vs. the shrine. Me? I don't give a shit. However, I propose that if they're such a problem here, unwilling to comply, and end up being a bundle of problems in the end, just deny their renewal of membership (as a board) here, when their time comes. Ogre has the right, and doesn't have to accept payment.And, yes this is something I think feasible, reasonable, and quite possible.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Great idea LD! I am glad that things are working out :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I told Silus and he was like "holy shit!"

So yeah it is working well. :D

[TheHolo.Net]

Soth has announced his intentions to leave the Shrine (but not in public) He also is blaming the copyright infringment thing on "The Meras Crew" particularly Nav and Blade (who's posts he quoted from here at Fans) stating that such is the reason he is leaving RP here.

Too bad he doesn't understand copyright issues are legitimate legal issues, nor does Ashina, since her reply about it went something along the lines of "we've been doing it all this time and now there's a prolem."

Frankly all I can say is "Here, let me hold open the door for your easy egress outta here Soth. You won't be missed." But considering he did the same in public not less than 6 weeks ago (announced he was leaving) I doubt he really will leave.

[imported_Eve]

Okay - can I recap?

We wanted them to edit the FAQ and they did, right?

People with names that infringe upon Anne Rice's copyrighted material have all been changed, right?

Am I missing something? I'm sorry, I don't read RPs, but I think I read the entire OOC thread on their FAQ (as I posted to it).

The problem with the moved and deleted threads was settled? right?

Sorry - I missed what happened there. I don't need a recap, just wanna know if that's correct.

I know they're bitching on and on, but, all in all, the issues are resolved? Or wait - they're claiming ownership over RP lines I guess, and we don't go for that.


The FAQ should have something about a general timeline/storyline? IOW, its one big galaxy that we all play in together? right?

Sorry, if my reading comprehension is crap.

[TheHolo.Net]

You are right on all accounts from where I stand, though the Pandora name is still Ann Rice owned and not changed here as far as I know.

It seems drama queens/kings just want to keep the drama dragging on and on (at least among the Shrine senior members) IMO.

[ReaperFett]

How is Pandora rice-owned? Surely the box was there before her?

[TheHolo.Net]

Someone versed in Ann Rice fiction would know better than I.

[Navaria Tarkin]

There is an ancient vampire named Pandora that Anne Rice created. The Pandora that is played at the shrine is basically the same character. :rolleyes

As for Soth. whatever. Perhaps he failed to read the author's website whom he so admires, and her wishes about such copyrighted issues. As a fan of her work myself, I think such things should be respected, as a mod, I worry if one day someone on Rice's end finds out about this and wham, there goes the board. Is it likely? No. But as I have said before, Others had to change their names for copyrighted issues that didnt have a message from the source. Vash, The woman from the Mummy (can remember her name), and the mulder scully thing.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Pandora: Pandora is a goddess from greek mythology. She was definetely around with her box before Anne Rice used her name. However, I don't read Anne Rice, so I couldn't tell you if their Pandora mirror's hers or not.

I don't understand why Soth would be blaming it on Nav or Blade unless they started dancing around saying "HA ha you have to change because you guys are infringing on copyright!"

Something I doubt Nav did, although I don't know about Blade. In the end we can't be responsible for the conclusions people jump to. Silus let me read what he posted in the locked Shrine forum before he posted it, and it was perfectly fine. Just a heads up.

*shrug* if Soth's leaving then who the hell cares? Why all the drama!? DRAMA! DRAMA! :eek *runs away*

[Shawn]

Shoot em' all, I say. :p

Seriously, though... if it's not already being written in, the FAQ definitely needs to mention the issue of copyright infrigements, since they're becoming more prominent lately. And frankly, the entirety of this discussion should have gone, "It's on her site, you're doing something she asked you not to, ciao".

They (the Shrinites) seem to already have a pretty good hatred of me, but I'll gladly law down the law, if need be. I can take the flak.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

The "shrinites" appear to hate all mods and admins. :\ I just don't understand.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Silus/Darren is a member of their council. I'm going to give him a heads up on the Anne Rice thing, and have him break it to the Shrine. That way it is coming from him, someone they actually like, and not a member of the 'establishment.' I'm going to let him use my name, and basically say "LD was looking through some copyright pages and found one pertaining to Anne Rice and we will all be in deep poodoo if we're caught using her copyrighted names/characters." Not to perpetuate the drama, but instead to keep the staff informed, I was PMd this evening by Darren/Silus and asked to remove his status as a Shrine Mod. I'm not going to say why since it was done via PM exchange, but I thought it best everyone here know.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

*watches the Shrine go down the tubes*

Ah well. :(

[imported_Eve]

I intend to draft the FAQ tonight.

[TheHolo.Net]

Awesome!

If we can have it all ready by Monday between all of us, all the better for me since my A+ certification classes start Monday night. :D

BTW: I have prepped a template to recieve the new FAQ, but only added it to the T-Phantom style until its complete.

<a href=faq.php>Board FAQ</a>

[imported_Eve]

Yeah - you know how you SOMETIMES get psyched to clean your house to death? That's how I feel about doing the FAQ tonight!

My boss is sending me home since I sound like death warmed over. I have some stuff to do, then I'll begin on it. I type fast, so should have it all posted tonight. You can revise Saturday. Sunday, we will fine tune and post.

We can post an announcement that it has been revised. I suggest the announcement be closed. We've had four years to figure out what does and doesn't work for us. We don't need everyone all of a sudden chiming in and debating everything.

I'll draft an announcement as well.

Sound good?

So, if anyone has any last input, now is the time to post in the other thread. Please also post reminders for me.

[TheHolo.Net]

Sounds great to me!

Also note: The format of the present FAQ page I linked earlier isn't exactly how its going to be with a new one. I just stuck what we already have in there with no fluff as a place holder for now.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Eve
We can post an announcement that it has been revised. I suggest the announcement be closed. We've had four years to figure out what does and doesn't work for us. We don't need everyone all of a sudden chiming in and debating everything.If we use the vB announcement feature we can post it in the BO and RP Forums (All 3 RP forums since not everyone goes to OOC) and not have to have a closed thread in multiple places. vB announcements don't allow replies by regular members.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

That link, Ogre, it...doesn't show anything. :)

I can't wait to read it, Eve-ers :)

[Navaria Tarkin]

:: prancies around blaming the Shrine ::

:|

Not :p

Can't wait for the overhaul of the FAQ ;)

[imported_Eve]

Okay this is taking more time than I thought. Lets move first draft to be posted some time tomorrow.

[TheHolo.Net]

Don't push yourself for this, just do it as you feel up to it and take it easy sos you can get better soon. :)

[imported_Eve]

Okies. I know. :)

I'm editing now, and adding. On page 4 of the RP FAQ. When I am done with that process I will cruise our input thread, and other threads to add stuff.

Then I need to put it all in order. I'm numbering and lettering sections, so you can say, "Hey dorky, check section I.H and then post!" or "Hey dorky, see Q2 under section II of the RP FAQ".

Know what I mean?

[TheHolo.Net]

Excellent idea. :)

[imported_Eve]

Sorry. Better gimme some more time. I didn't anticipate how long this would take. That and I keep dozing off, and had a couple parties yesterday.

Am an editing fool. I apologize - I will be taking more time.

[TheHolo.Net]

No problem at all Eve.

You have my thanks for working on this draft. :)

[imported_Eve]

If anyone wants to see what I have, I'll upload it later. But that could probably not be good since it will take even longer to get up a draft.

Just aim me if you want to see.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

just upload when you're done Eve-ers. :D