Chaosians and Others: attn please

[Lilaena De'Ville]

There are a few things happening here at TBH. One is: no one posts. Another is: Chaos seems bent on taking over...which won't matter much because no one posts.

OOC I've tried to get TBH going and get them to do things, to make our mark on the RPing world.

I've failed.

If you Chaosians are going to 'overthrow' the rest of TBH, then have fun, because LD will leave. I'm not threatening anything, because I LOVE this group OOC. But IC, LD hated Sorsha before she joined, and was the dissenting vote on her being brough back into the hand.

Chaos, in her opinion, undermines everything that the Hand stands for. Therefore, when/if Chaos takes over the Hand, it really ceases to be The Black Hand, and it becomes something else. A sith group, really. Passion, extreme violence, etc, are all Sith ideals and tendencies.

So anyway, LD will be 'groupless' again. I was pondering starting a splinter group, basically all the non-chaos types if they wished, and calling it the White Hand, and getting an extra forum on this board.

All this is of course OOC information, and simply to make the transisition (IF THERE IS ONE) as easy and painless OOC as possible. :D And to let you guys in on the thoughts in my head. I am disappointed, because I hoped that we had a group here that actually could do something, but obviously IC no one wants to work with each other (except for Silus, Vega and LD...thanks guys!!!)

[Taylor Millard]

well like I've said...I've been active with Sasha on our 'Call to Order' thread. I've just thrown some training into it as well, so it's taking a bit longer.

But we have been active on it.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

You did already say that once. :mneh I do read you know ;)

[Kar'h'tzen Shaed]

The White Hand... of Saruman!

;)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Could be the Neon Green Hand of...er...Envy?

[Navaria Tarkin]

Every time I tried to get something going it always fell flat ... I personally got fed up with it :lol I know it wasn't Taja's fault ... but Zasz is around tsk tsk ... so :: shrugs ::

The other stuff was planned with all you guys and I felt I didn't belong :\

[Morgan Evanar]

I see a potential factionalization, but Sorsha is merley out to kill annoyances right now. It doesn't nessicerly run contrary to any overal plan.

I can't fooking speeeel. :|

[Sorsha Kasajian]

OOC and on a personal level, I have to admit that I feel really sad about reading this.

Only IC as Sorsha, this is something I've tried to bring about for nearly two years of real time. To help lead a group to prominence and renown.

I myself tried to organize this group when I returned, but there was little to no interest. I became discouraged, and uninspired. When I checked back in, things had naturally moved along without me, and Sorsha had become lost in the shuffle.

I lay blame on no one for this, it's just the way things happened.

There are more than a few times when I've wondered what The Black Hand is, what it's ideology is, and if I ever belonged here at all.

I'm so unsure of my place here anymore and beyond desperate to carve out a niche for myself. As Sorsha, this is totally in character for her to do, and something I intend to follow through on inorder to maintain character.

I understand that De'Ville is maintaining character too, but behind my RP mask, I'm feeling not so good about it.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

Originally posted by Navaria Tarkin
The other stuff was planned with all you guys and I felt I didn't belong :\

Tis how I felt also.

[Pierce Tondry]

Everyone stop it right now. I will not let this spiralling cascade of self-doubt break apart a good thing.

Something we lost as we all got closer was the defining line between IC and OOC. People don't do drastic side-switches or treacherous betrayals anymore in large part because they don't want to hurt those they consider friends. (there are other reasons too, but this is a big one)

This is RP, guys. We can do whatever crazy, fucked up shit we feel like and it doesn't matter!!!!

Here are a couple of problems I see with the way things are. Please do not think I consider myself any exception to this list.

1) TBH Members keep dropping out of RPs, and/or off the boards in general.

2) Our RP plans and arcs are really freaking huge and complicated- so much so, they take forever just to set up and no one ever feels like carrying them all the way through.

3) TBH as a whole really is more of a collection of individuals rather than a defined alliance among RPers.

Clearly, we gotta find ways to beat these if we want to remain a coherent group.

Personally, I see the 'factionalization' thing to be a lot of potential fun and am willing to run with it. It fits my OOC and IC motivations quite well and honestly, I've had a lot of trouble finding something on the boards that I could react to as Hob lately. I need something interesting, some spark, to get the little bugger running again.

So, that being said... how about a brainstorming thread for TBH ideas?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I don't see how things were planned with "all you guys" meanins...us? I dunno who you mean, Dale.

I threw out ideas, people seemed to recieve them well, and then they died. No ones fault mebbe, but it still happened.

Kitty I certainly don't want to make you sad! Its just that IC when Sorsha makes her move LD will pack up and leave...if she can still walk. I don't blame Sorsha for behaving as she would normally, I agree it is in the natural progression of things.

And I don't mean to say that Sorsha and Vicet taking over is a bad thing. Certainly Sorsha can inspire people to do what she wants more than I can. LD is not a leader here, she is as Brian said, just an individual.

All this being said, I think I have said over and over again in many RPs here what a Dark Jedi is and what TBH's plans are. Dale, we even did that 're-edumacation' thread in which Dale was told all that I myself know.

Our problem IS that we don't have any specific leadership.

Brian, we've had brainstorming before and still nothing happened. I'm sorry, but I don't see that helping much.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

A group of individuals will never work well together, because everyone IC is in it for themselves. This is TBH's curse. :p

<a href=http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23346>idea thread</a>

<a href=http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26856>2nd Idea thread</a>

[Pierce Tondry]

Well, if you really think things are beyond salvage and don't feel the desire to be flexible with your character in this situation, then go with what you feel.

I wish you the best, regardless.

[Taylor Millard]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Our problem IS that we don't have any specific leadership.

Well wasn't that the reason why TBH was created? A place where there was no leadership, but individuals who worked together when it suited them and seperate when it didn't?

That way TBH didn't have to worry about political stuff and people backstabbing other OOC, etc etc etc.

That's what I always saw TBH as.

And I though it suited us fairly well.

If we want a direct leadership, then lets get that solved right now.

If we want to have 2 or 3 direct leaders then lets create a new thread and discuss it.

[Taylor Millard]

Now as for our threads not getting anything done.

Have we stopped to consider maybe we're getting no resistance??

No Jedi coming in and disrupting our activities, making the RPs fun and stuff like that.

The only person whose shown any sort of interest in disrupting TBH stuff is Marcus and, imo, it could be he does this to show any group w/o a Marcus character is a weak group.

IMO, The Lost was created to be an anti-TBH...and, in all honesty, having The Lost as TBH's main nemesis sucks because their RPers are flakier than ours.

GJO...I dunno, some of their characters just don't RP well and most of the good ones are members of TBH too (Vega/Dasquian, Milli/Morgan, Dale/Nav, Hob/Pierce, LD/James).

TBH is more active than TSO is and 'bout as more active than GJO.

If we want to have interaction with GJO, then what I've always done is gone to a GJO member, presented them with an RP, and invited them to help me with it. And it normally has worked.

When you get no resistance in a thread, does it make it any fun at all?

In a word...NO!

It's why in my Call to Order thread I threw in some training so it wouldn't be a boring thread.

So we've got to decide who our targets are and then discuss it with them. Not lay all our cards on the table but atleast some so they know what to expect.

That's how it's always worked for me.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Dale is never really in anything for herself IC ... She is more of a follower then doing in a lot of cases... she is a hermit like her husband :p

LD - I meant the planning in general. I felt like I didnt know, or how to contribute, and therefore, was left behind. not pointing fingers .. was a general statement to how I felt.

Leaders - Nah. Leadership gets things all screwy cept when things are voted on and in a cycle like at GJO .. never had any probs with leadership cept when people dont post :| that is annoying.

Personally, I think things can be fixed and be fun for all, if we can find some common ground to all RP from, besides the stuff we do on our own. I know the Call to Order threads were suppose to do that ... but I think Taylor hint the nail on the head with people going MIA and no resistance... things like that.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I like it that mine isn't getting any resistance. That way by the time they realize what we've done...its too late! >D

Brian - you totally missed all of my points. I never once said I was giving up on anything. RCP plz! :)

[Pierce Tondry]

When I see RCP, for some reason I always think "Red-hot Chili Peppers" before my brain translates it.

Speaking of translating.

Yeah. I think I did misunderstand some things. I'm sorry everyone. I think my 3 points are still correct and the sentiments I expressed are good, they just relate not at all to what Holly originally posted.

Forgive me guys. I think my ADD has really started to screw with me lately. I dunno what I'm gonna do about it, but I'll do something.

[Zasz Grimm]

My IC stance, with each characters.

Zasz: Wouldn't tolerate said uprising, would oppose it full force. And if defeated, he would merely follow Hob, or one of the older members.

Kineas: Merely do what Dale would do, or what she told him to do.

Cyriam: Listen to Mili (though they don't RP), if not her, then Zasz.

OOC stance: Resistance is truly what makes a group more fun. Large battles are fun, despite the descencion. I've often said that a skirmish between groups would help, if not a small bit.

I became discouraged with my activites in my Call to Order threads, and now that Grev is back, that is bringing my attention back more so. But I dunno about this takeover, if it happens at all. It's doubtful I would support it at all, but as I said, I would fight those who were in charge of it, physically if need be.

Zasz is an extremely dedicated member. Or at least, I've tried to make him come off of as such. Granted, he doesn't like a couple members, but still.

It's hard for me to say anything really, I guess I'd be for leadership, as long as we all agree'd on it, though like Taylor said, it somewhat goes against what TBH stands for.

But then again, the members can choose whether or not they follow those orders, as per usual.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I think, Brian, that you are forgiven.

That being said, here is my take on how TBH operates best:

We all have different strengths and weaknesses. I think we should group up in "small groups" if you will, and accomplish things that way. I'm trying it with Silus and Vega and its actually working pretty well. Find something that a few people want to do, clear it with the rest of the members (can't have viligantes running around! Actually I doubt anyone would tell anyone NO) and then go and have fun with it.

Discuss!

[Navaria Tarkin]

Hmm ... but isnt that the problem tho .. working in small groups and not working together?

I DO like that idea but I hope there is a way to work things together in different small groups and not always the same people... I want varity if possible...

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Yes I don't plan on only going on "missions" with Vegs and Silus. I'm going to do one with Mili soon...going to have to take med supplies to our 'rats' in Coruscant in a bit. :)

The problem with ALWAYS trying to do things as an entire group is that..obviously...not everyone can post all the time, and then it all falls apart. And it takes forever. While a small group of two-four can get online and knock out an RP in a week. I'm certainly not opposed to doing things as an entire group either...but I don't think that people who DON'T do things with the entire group, and who post with smaller amounts of people should feel left out in any way.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Then I'm liking the small groups idea. That way things are more contained

[imported_Taja Loraan]

I like the small groups idea, largely because I'm guilty of most of the problems mentioned in this thread. :\ I don't think variety would be an issue because each member has different strengths and weaknesses, so the individuals best suited to carry out any new TBH mission would be different in each case. If that makes sense. :x

I'm against the whole idea of leadership. Like Taylor said, it completely goes against what TBH stands for and whatnot.

The takeover thing IMO is a good idea, for IC plotlines and whatnot. Taja's fiercely loyal to TBH, but she loves her Mommy more than anything. :D Where Mommy goes, she follows. Whee.

Speaking of which... does Mommy still want to skip the preliminary Call to Order thread and do the assassination one?

[Navaria Tarkin]

Speaking of which... does Mommy still want to skip the preliminary Call to Order thread and do the assassination one?

FOR THE LOVE THAT IS ALL EVIL YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:)

sounds weird coming from this character.... anyway, Taja... I'm not upset at you for being one of the MIA"s ... I've wub you ... just frustrating at times but when we RP it's part of the best times i have here :D

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Yay! :)

[SashaKovalev]

I know, I know, Ive been kinda quiet. :)

But Im always willing to jump into an rp and pretty much always keep up my end of keeping them going. Its just that with Sasha, right now, his character is doing a whole lotta learning from his uncle/father/master dude and isnt around Bast all that much.

I think the idea of smaller group things is good - it seems easier to organize and keep threads going. In any sort of uprising, there is no doubt he'd follow Wargrave in whatever he decided.

As for leadership, the younger guys (and women) have to have someone to look up to - doesnt mean it has to be a set leader of the group, but there should be a few to actually take charge of things, I think, every now and then.

Just my two cents. Though, it prolly isnt even worth that much. :)

[Sorsha Kasajian]

I've held back posting my takeover thread in here for the benefit of this discussion. I'm not quite at full thinking capacity, so I'm just gonna let my brain rest and remain silent til I'm a bit more lucid.

[Arya Ravenwing]

get better soon Sorshie!

[Kar'h'tzen Shaed]

I agree... with EVERYone! Hugs and kisses all around! Anyway, I think all of Brian's and Taylor's points are correct.

JH: Hey, do those "Idea" threads you linked to not exist anymore? I can't see 'em.

IC, I've been on Ryloth, doing some drug-trafficing. No, really. I have. Hopefully I can get out of that hell-hole soon... if and when the "power upheaval" occurs, I'm likely to stick with De'Ville, or whatever the splinter group is going to be called. I think not having a "leader", per se, for TBH is not a problem. As has been said, Dark Jedi shouldn't really have leaders. Only better Dark Jedi. Shaed doesn't like Sith, or anything Sith-like - no matter that he has a few more Sithly qualities himself that he is so far unable to control. So he's not gonna stay with the people who take over TBH.

OOC, I think it's fine that people want to take over TBH and that many, if not most, will leave as a result. It's interesting, and interesting = good. No one should feel badly about where one's character end up, or what they do, we can still be buddies in real life. :)

[Navaria Tarkin]

if most leave then what's the point? bleh IMO

[Taylor Millard]

Well...not necessarily, Nav. Look at it this way...there could be a war for TBH.

One faction vs. another...etc etc etc.

If there's a splinter group, then that splinter group could try and get control back (provided we come up with a solution)...

The key to the solution is we make sure WE SCRIPT THIS OUT HERE! :)

Like Kar said, it's an interestin idea.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

spend too much time planning = nothing gets done

Play it by ear.

[Silus Xilarian]

Playing it by ear seems a bit more exciting to me.....

We should all just solemnly swear now that no matter what the outcome is, no one will take anything personally.

(considering the calibre of RPers in this group, I think this idea is most likely overkill)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I wouldn't take it personally at all. :)

Unless someone made it personal. Which I doubt anyone would. :D

[SashaKovalev]

Oh I'll make it personal, alright. :crack Kidding, kidding, of course.

But uh...one thing Im not kidding about. Ive got a question. And if its a stupid one, just blame it on me being a hockey player or english not being my first language or something... ;)

If theres going to be a takeover, what is the reason behind it? I guess I missed out on something somewhere as to why there would be a takeover or civil war or whatever.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Because Sorsha is a bad bad girl?

[SashaKovalev]

*laughs* It seemed too obvious to be the real answer. :)

[Taylor Millard]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
spend too much time planning = nothing gets done

Play it by ear.

well I have to do SOMETHING between the times of 2AM and 5AM on weekday nights.

:p

Maybe I just like knowing things too much

[Pierce Tondry]

When I plan for an RP, I come up with keystone points- markers if you will. My best RPs start as nothing more than two or three of those points fleshed out.

[Sorsha Kasajian]

The revolution is dead, that's it, that's all.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

:\

[Zasz Grimm]

:\

I had a cool idea too, if it took place.

[Taylor Millard]

Originally posted by Sorsha Kasajian
The revolution is dead, that's it, that's all.

WHAT?!?

Kitty!

[Dasquian Belargic]

:(:(:(