Something that struck me yesterday

[Doc Milo]

My stepson and I started a Star Wars Movie Marathon yesterday (but we only got through two movies...TPM and AOTC. When Schools out we plan on a whole day thing with all five....) Anyway, while watching AotC, something struck me and I just thought I'd ask the question: Is there a difference between a Padawan, and a Padawan Learner?

I had always assumed that a Padawan was what a youngling got called when he was paired with a Knight or Master for training. But then it struck me differently when watching TPM and AotC yesterday.

The two events: The Council informs Qui-Gon that they will not train Anakin. Qui-Gon then turns around and says, "I'll train him them. I take Anakin as my Padawan Learner." Giving the impression that Anakin will skip the first stage of training and go directly to an apprenticeship...

Then, in AotC, Yoda gathers the "younglings" around the map reader, and asks if anyone can explain Obi-Wan's missing planet. A youngling answers that the planet was deleted from the archive memory. To which, Yoda says to Obi-Wan, "The Padawan is correct."

Then when Padme and Anakin are on Naboo, and Sio Bibble asks Anakin for his opinion, mistakenly calling him "Master Jedi" Padme says, "Anakin's not a Jedi yet, he's still a Padawan Learner."

So, the question is, is there a difference between Padawan and Padawan Learner?

From what I have observed, with those situations, is that perhaps there is ... perhaps a youngling and a Padawan are the same, and a Padawan Learner is one who is paired with a Knight or Master?

[darth_mcbain]

Interesting connection... I never really thought about it, I always thought they were one and the same. However, what you've described does tend to make it seem that there is a bit more of a hierarchy of Padawans. Anyone else have any input on this, I'd be interested too.

BTW Doc, that's awesome - doing the movie marathon thing... I've done it with the OT, and with TPM and the OT, but I haven't gotten a chance with AOTC in the mix... I can't wait until we have all 6.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It is possibe there could be a difference maybe we will find out in the next film, unless there is some source out there on the official site, Could always ask the Jedi Council.

[JMK]

Interesting observation, there could very well be a link. The question is whether Lucas is ultra conscious of his wording, or if it's just an oversight on his part.

[Telan Desaria]

I think, from the lack of interesting ina final three, it's an oversight. That doesn't mean we can't make use of it here.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Interestingly, at GJO we have hierachy of learners too as a RP thing. One is when you enter the group, the next is wwhen you gain a Master. The first level however is called Initiate.

[Dove]

That is a good point. I would say that padawan learners are the ones that are training to be a padawan, and do not yet have a master.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I'd say that they're the same thing. :mneh

[Sage Hazzard]

I just don't think they'd put that in the movie but only mention it with wordplay. Wouldn't they elaborate on it a little more? Maybe not.

Good idea though. Maybe this is true. Hopefully it'll be explained in Episode 3. I'm actually dreading that film, because I get the notion that Lucas won't answer half of the questions everyone's asking.

[Franksta]

There's probaby a prequels fanguide that explains it in some detail. There might even be a roleplaying guide that explains it.

[Obi-Wan Pierogi]

Hi, guys. I'm new, and thought I'd throw my two cents out there.


Everything I've ever heard about the Jedi and their training is that there are three stages:

Padawan (also called Padawan Learner, Jedi Padawan or Apprentice once teamed with a Jedi Knight). This is the learning stage of the process. Typically, when they are younger, they are taught in groups (thus the "younglings" in AoTC), and when they get a little older (Anakin's age, approximately, which is why Yoda and the council were so against his becoming a learner) the Padawan was teamed with a Jedi Knight. Thus the Master-Apprentice dynamic.

Jedi Knight- once a Jedi has passed the trials, they are knighted.

Jedi Master-this applies to the Jedi Knights who adhere to the code. Masters are council members.

So basically, from what I know and have gleaned from the newer movies, Padawan and Padawan Learner are the same thing.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

Masters are council members.


False. Qui-Gon was a Master, yet not on the Council. There were also a number of others in AotC that were Masters, and not on the Council


Other than that, I've got the basic thinking, ATM, as you do.

[Obi-Wan Pierogi]

"Master" is more of a title when used as it was to describe Qui-Gonn, as I understand it. Like "Master Bruce" in Batman. The rank of Master is another matter, from what I understande...Otherwise, everyone's a master. Which is confusing. Where are you getting your information, oh sagelike one?

[Figrin D'an]

Qui-Gon was indeed a Jedi Master by rank. You need look no further than the official site and some of the prequel era EU books to confirm this. IIRC, Ki-Adi-Mundi was a only a Jedi Knight by rank in TPM, yet sat on the council. By AOTC, he was a Master, and presumably had been promoted in the decade between the two events. While it's true that most of the council were Masters, at least one wasn't, and there were other Jedi Masters who did not serve on the Council


The duality of the term "master" in the films does lead to some confusion, I agree.

[Obi-Wan Pierogi]

One of the Council members was not a Master? I didn't know that. 'Course I don't read much of the EU or the novelizations. Or even the "guides" they have out there. Not that I think they're bad, I just don't have the inclination beyond Timothy Zahn's books.

So, you don't have to be a Master to be on the Council. How does one get on the Council? I know Obi-wan mentioned that if Qui-Gonn only followed the rules, he could be a Councilmember. That can't be it, can it? I mean, I'm sure a lot of Jedi follow the rules...

Thanks for the information, by the way, it's good to get a little clarification on some of these things.

[Figrin D'an]

I think Obi-Wan intentionally oversimplified the statement in order to make a point. His emphasis was more on "follow the rules" than "would be on the Council." Qui-Gon, while very skilled in his own right, was a bit of a rogue. His views of the Force and of right and wrong didn't always align with those of the Council, and as a result, he may have been overlooked for Council membership. Obi-Wan is attempting to point out that Qui-Gon's defiance of certain rules and of council mandate will only lead to greater problems, and that perhaps the Jedi Master should consider softening his stance.

If Qui-Gon's was less belligerent in his ways, he may have indeed been asked to sit on the Council. We don't know for sure, however, because we don't really know how the Council system works and the details of the process to become a member.

[Ardath Bey]

I think they're of the same precise meaning, just that padawan learner maybe a more effectionate term. My .02 worth.

[ADarksideJedi]

Btw that is cool idea about making a day watching all five of them!That gives me a idea for a party for me and my boyfriend who loves star wars!
Thanks for the idea!Hope u had a fun time watching it!Anyway as for your answear I have no idea!Sorry!
See u around!Jackie :angel

[Sheyleigh Castille]

I know that this thread hasn't been posted in since October, but I just read it over now. It struck my curiosity and I don't know what anyone here thinks about the CUSWE as a resource for information, but I figured it couldn't hurt to paste this definition/explanation of the Padawans from it:

Padawan:

this is a Jedi term for a young student of the Force. During the height of the Old Republic, beings who were strong with the Force were identified at a young age for training, often before their first year of life. Young beings were transported to the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, where they were brought up to respect the Force and the life it suffuses. Trainees were allowed to train until they were chosen as Padawan learners by a Jedi Master, or until they were thirteen years old. If a learner was not chosen as a Padawan by his thirteenth birthday, it was decided that the young student would never have the drive and skills to become a full Jedi Knight, and they were given lesser assignments by the Jedi Council. Each Padawan was distinguished by a short, close-cropped hairstyle which was accented by a thin braid. The braid's length, together with small beads braided into the hair, denoted the Padawan's level of training. On the occasion of a Padawan's thirteenth birthday, solemn reflection and meditation were required by the student, and the Master often gave them a meaningful gift. (PTR, SW1, RF, HP)