Question about a rank issue

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Its not a real issue yet, but here are the PMs that have been exchanged. This should explain it all.


Lilaena De'Ville wrote on 05-23-03 07:55 PM:
Hi Shanaria!

As you might have noticed, I jumped into the RP <a href=http://sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29497&perpage=50&pagenumber=1>"A warm spring night"</a> and tried to pick a fight of sorts. I have a few questions for you, however.

Do you RP Dark Lord Rivin and Lord Talzen? If so, Rivin can't be a Sith Lord, unless you have training and posts to back it up. The way we progress at swfans is that everyone starts at the bottom.

Or do you have previous permission from another RPing mod to RP a Sith Lord?

Please get back to me as soon as you can. Thanks

LD



Shanaria Fabool wrote on Today 01:12 PM:
Yes I do play both. Nether Rivin or Talzen are a member of any group, and the two of them run a slave trading/crime ring. Rivin is a self-trained self-proclamed Sith Lord. I have been using this name for a long time in other places, like Talk City and the EZ-boards. He tends to not get into places where his life is in danger, a likes to hire others to do his dirty work... Talzen will be the more active of the two, I just needed a Master in the back seat of things for Talzen's Background to work. And as long as he doesn't join a group I don't see Why it would be a problem to have him a Sith Lord... How is it diffrent from a person showing up and saying that they are a fully trained bounty hunter? Their background gave them that training, but if the join A guild or something, than it's understandable that they are at the bottom.

If I can, I would really like Rivin to stay a Sith Lord, but I don't recall in the rules it saying that I couldn't make a person start as a Sith Lord. We can discuss this so that both of us are happy with the results, can't we?

I have not responded yet, so any thoughts on what to tell her?

[Charley]

If she has transcripts to back up her characters experience, then she may do so. If not, tough luck.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

This is in the FAQ right? I'll hunt it down and quote it to her later I guess....

[Navaria Tarkin]

I wondered about that... that character hasn't been around long at all. Like two months. NO way she could be a Lord

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Um I don't see anything in the FAQ that addresses the issue. I'll try to write a PM tonight though.

[TheHolo.Net]

I was PM'd about this and responded as follows:

Shanaria Fabool wrote on Today 11:42:52 AM:
I have this character named Dark Lord Rivin Who I brought I from other Rp's from other places like Talkcity and The Ezboards. Before I created him I searched all the rules, and all the FAQ's and I couldn't find any rule that says I can't have Rivin start on this board as a Sith Lord.

I have been playing with him as a Sith Lord for over a month, and now I am told by Lilaena De'Ville that I can't have Rivin a Sith Lord. I've been told that if I can get transcripts from Talkcity or links to the Ezboard threads he was in, I can keep him. But the Ezboards have deleated the board that he was posting at. And I haven't posted at Talkcity for over 3 years.

I need this character the way he is, because....

1. He is critaical to the backgrounds of 2 other characters I have.

2. He already has an apprentice.

3. His entire history of RPing would be ruined. (including the stuff he did on Talkcity)

I have been developing this character for 5 years, both on and off the Internet I don't want all the work I've done to build him to be distroyed by LD forcing me to make him an apprentice again...

Please can you give me permision to keep him as a Sith Lord.. He is not a member of any of the RP groups and does not intend to join any...

Thank you for your time...

Shanaria
Without links to documented proof of training in dated print on the Internet, I cannot.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Lilaena De'Ville wrote on Today 01:22 AM:
Well, the rules of the board are that if you can provide links to transcipts of your training, aka a paper trail of the character, then you can usually bring them to swfans as a different rank than padawan or apprentice. Barring evidence that the character actually has the experience necessary for their rank...swfans doesn't allow people to start RPing a character and just arbitrarily make themself a Sith Lord, or a Jedi Master.

Bouny hunters and the like tend to be treated a bit differently. I don't think anyone would question Rivin or Talzen having skills in those respects (shooting, fighting or just generally being good at smuggling or something) but its the Force training that we are real sticklers on. Everyone has to do it, and its really a fun part of RPing here, that we all start at the bottom and work our way up.

That way we don't have unfair advantages, or people talking about godmoding. Because simply starting off as a Sith Lord or Master is a bit of a godmode, as the character never actually did anything to get those skills. Does that make sense?

Anyway, if you have any transcripts from Talkcity or links to threads from ezboard, you can most likely keep Rivin. Talzen is legal already as he is only an apprentice, and apparently a chicken too. ;)

Let me know when you can, ok?

LD:)

And her reply:


Shanaria Fabool wrote on Today 09:30 AM:
I tryed to go back to the Ezboards and found that the board that Rivin was posting on was deleted... And I don't know how to get transcrips from Talkcity... I need Rivin for a number of Threads... Is there ANYTHING I can do to get permistion to keep him the way he is... As I said before he is a background character, he is needed for the background of others.


Well, the rules of the board are that if you can provide links to transcipts of your training, aka a paper trail of the character, then you can usually bring them to swfans as a different rank than padawan or apprentice. Barring evidence that the character actually has the experience necessary for their rank...swfans doesn't allow people to start RPing a character and just arbitrarily make themself a Sith Lord, or a Jedi Master.


And Where is this rule posted? I looked for it and couldn't find it... If it's not posted where ALL can know that this is a rule, then it would be unfair you enforce it

I searched the FAQ as well and I couldn't find a rule that has been posted anywhere. I think her best bet however is to drop Rivin as a played character, and make Talzen masterless. Or else, I dunno what to tell her....

[Navaria Tarkin]

:: sighs ::

It has been part of this community for a long time that no ones starts off as Lord etc whatever without asking the community as a whole first. This has happened every single time because it is not fair for those that have RPed here from the beginning for people to show up as a Lord like that. Try explaining it that way?

Love how everything that was an unspoken rule for years has to be written.

frelling talkcity. Chats shouldnt count anyway IMO .. ezboard .. sure >_<

[TheHolo.Net]

This policy has never been written, but has been in effect since I first started, well over three years ago while we were still on ezboard.

This section in the RP FAQ sort of applies to the situation/policy:
Don't expect to be popular if you come in thinking you are the best and blare it out. There are people here who have seen that hundreds of times, and they won't think much of you. Also, if you are an apprentice, dont expect to have the abilities equivalent of a Master. Common sense tells us you can't. The best roleplayers learn as they play. They slowly develop their characters, allowing them to grow over time. That adds fun and realism to the whole experience.


Oh and in response to this:
And Where is this rule posted? I looked for it and couldn't find it... If it's not posted where ALL can know that this is a rule, then it would be unfair you enforce itIts not so much that its a rule the staff enforces, its a rule that the community upholds as a standard of common sense. Its been that way for years. People that bring in new characters as high ranks typically get laughed off the board. I am certain there are several threads where the issue has been raised by newbies in the past and been shot down in OOC.

[TheHolo.Net]

She has PM'd me again and I have responded again:{quote]
Shanaria Fabool wrote on Yesterday 07:05:50 PM:

Most of the Work done with him was not done on the internet. I'm in the process of digging up all the stories I've made with him. I have them in hard copy. I've also called you some of the key people in the RP's that I did with Rivin and I'm re-creating as much the Talkcity work, that I can remember and that the others that are helping me can remember, of the stuff that I did as rivin.

Would Complete documentation in a txt document be good enough? I can get that. But the stuff that was done on the internet I have lost...

There are two people that I know of that are on the SWFans boards that were RPing with Rivin a lot. The person that plays Marga Alton and Athena Lady Darknss both know a lot about Dark Lord Rivin from Talkcity... Feel free to talk to them about Rivin. They can tell you that He was there and a Sith Lord.

I don't intend to do alot with Rivin here. Most of the work will be done by his apprentice Lord Talzen... But I Still NEED RIVIN the way he is!
Considering that this is not a rule typically enforced by the administration, and instead is enforced as a rule of common sense amongst the community members themselves, (it has been for nearly 5 years now). I would suggest that you take this issue up with them in the OOC forum. It’s an issue of fairness. We have had many people come from Talk City with characters that are new to our RP Universe, and not once has any of them been able to keep the rank they had obtained there because they could not show documented and dated proof that said characters were slowly developed over time.

If you don't want to take the issue up with the entire community as a whole then I would suggest that any material that you find you use to begin RPing this character to the point you need it to be, progressing slowly in forums associated with the SW-Fans.Net forums.

It would not be fair to the other former Talk City members who started fresh and took a great deal of time re-earning their ranks in our system for you to bring in this character and not develop it as they had to do with their own, nor would it be fair to the others who have spent years on the SW-Fans.Net forums developing their characters.

I can grant an exception though; If you only use this character and the subordinate apprentice character in the Storytelling Forum where the threads are closed (invite only) meaning you have the permission of the person you are RPing with to use this character, then there shouldn't be a problem, but in open to all threads in the SW-Fans.Net RP forum the character could not be allowed to be granted immediate Sith Lord status.

It is possible that the rest of the community may see things differently than me, so the option of bringing this all up in public to gauge their opinions is of course still open to you.

There are a the options I have to offer. txt docs don't meet the need for dated material in my eyes, in this situation.[/quote]

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Athena Lady Darknss wrote on Yesterday 09:43 PM:
I know your a mod here but I wanted you to know. That Rivin was at TC but he was not good enough for a sith Lord. I think seeing how many of the old TC peeps had to do some of a restart its only fair to the ones of us who did.





~Sith Master of The Sith Order.~

Athena

A PM I got today from Athena Lady Darknss

So, are we letting him/her do the backstory or are we still going to bust the char. down to apprentice??

[Charley]

Latter, I hope

[TheHolo.Net]

Looks like the majority voted for no as well, in her topic.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

So...someone other than me make the offical pronouncement to her. I think she thinks I have it out for her. Or him.. o_O